Are Swashbucklers overpowered?

[TheSource123]

<p>I remember playing a Swashy to level 34, and it was really boring compared to my Monk, which right now is suffering in the DPS/Tanking/Everything department. I'd top parse every time, I could solo pretty much everything, and I could tank better than my Monk/Bruiser and hold aggro easily. My Brigand was also fairly easy, but I felt like I played a role rather than just doing everything.</p><p> I know some [Removed for Content] that brags about how good he is all the time, and he's a Swash, he is NOT a good player, he pulls tons of adds, he parses every fight against trash mobs, smacks excessively, parses in guild chat, and pull names without asking etc. etc.</p><p>HE IS NOT A GOOD PLAYER. And yet, he does 2-4 times my DPS, and can tank better. We've even compared stats, we are both in Mastercrafted and he has more Mit than me, and basically higher stats in every category!</p><p>Thoughts? I want actual math-based stuff here, no "[Removed for Content] please". Because as far as I can tell, a bad swash = a decent any other class?</p>

[Krontak]

<p>Yes, we are the top of the dps chain.  I've even heard of Swashbucklers getting 3k zonewide parses.   5k parses on a single target.  I often solo Halls of Fate, usually afk.  I just start attacking and walk away, even on the named.  It's pretty overpowering but hey, I can keep a secret if you can.</p><p>As far as tanking we outtank even Guardians.  There is no better suited class to tank with than the swashbuckler.  We handle spike damage even more efficiently than with Tower of Stone/Tsunammi.  Our avoidance rivals that of monks and bruisers and is generally 30-40% higher than brawlers. </p><p>We have the best crowd control out of all classes often compared to illu/coercers.  The swashbucklers charm spell is by far the most affected charm spell out there.</p><p>And as far as high hits, nobody even comes close.  Necromancers and wizards lifeburn and manaburn come nowhere close to our nukes.  I once got a critical hit on one of my CA's and took out a named in Halls of Fate.  I couldn't believe it!</p><p>I hope I've been helpful.  Good luck.</p>

[Rokjin]

<p>Any Swashbuckler can once every 5 minutes, use Ruthless Cunning, Finesse, Inspiration and Engarde and parse 2k by mashing the rest of our CAs especially if the fights lasts only ~15 seconds.</p><p>On the same note, a Wizard can Manaburn in a similiar situation and parse that same 2k DPS by hitting one button to two buttons, which is even easier then what the Swashie does.</p><p>On boss fights and trash that doesn't last less then 15 seconds, parses are much more reasonable, and the Rangers, Warlocks, Wizards that know what they are doing can out dps me. That is a simple fact, and no matter how much I try and maximize my class, they simply have more potential. Whether they are using that potential or not, is up to the player.</p><p>Any class with burst damage can be considered overpowered when parsed over a small enough interval.</p><p>In PvE, no Swashbucklers are not overpowered.</p><p>In PvP, the burst damage on Inspiration and EnGarde can make us very tough opponents. But then again an Assassin can jump me, stifle and root me, assasinate and kill me without me being able to do anything. I would say in PvP we are overpowered in the sense that 1 on 1, if we get the jump, there is not a single class that we cannot beat.</p><p>That may need a bit of adjustment, most likely just by decreasing the PvP damage on Inspiration and En Garde.. But then if the devs do that, then they might as well hear the arguments for decreasing the damage of Assasinate and Harm Touch. That becomes a very slippery slope then because the PvE balancing of abilities by recast timers simply does not apply to PvP, and you would have to rebalance the longer-recast abilities of nearly every other class.</p><p>Usable items like potions and other things can shift the fight in any direction depending on how much the person is willing to spend, so there's no point in discussing them in balancing.</p>

[Illyakuran]

<p>Your guildmate must have weapon blur up during every fight.</p>

[Dakkon_10]

<i><b><span style="font-size: small; font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva">Well, you played a swashy to level 34 so that means you know everything about our class. So I guess there is nothing else I can really tell you. I don't see a problem with a swashbuckler out parsing you, and it doesn't matter if you think he is a bad player. Pulling adds, parsing each fight, and pulling named without asking has absolutely nothing to do with how much dps he is doing. None of the classes you listed (Monk, Bruiser, Brigand) should be out parsing a swashbuckler anyways. Unless a swashbuckler has chosen the Stamina AA path w/ a round shield they should not be tanking better than a Fighter with even gear. It may just seem that way because swashbucklers have good offensive debuffs (35-45% dps reduction, -56 to offensive skills), and I know when I'm tanking I'm sure to get them on constantly. And yes, it must be because of the uber blurring of his weapon.</span></b></i>

[Kizee]

<p>Its your own fault for rolling a tank class. </p><p>Monks arn't the best tanks nor are they the best dps. You should have done alittle research before you played one.</p>

[TheSource123]

<p>I've kinda figured out that I got so used to playing an underpowered class that upon playing a regular one I wasn't really used to it. Although only 1 of the people that posted on the thread actually said anything helpful...</p><p>I dunno, compared to all the other classes I've played, Swashy seemed to be the easiest.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dunno, compared to all the other classes I've played, Swashy seemed to be the easiest.</p></blockquote><p>"Easiest" at <b>what</b>? Without being more specific, you're not really saying anything.</p><p>My Conjuror has far less trouble taking on single ^^^ named mobs. As a Swashy, I cannot seem to figure out how to kill them, even when they're 10 levels below me. Sometimes I get lucky; most times, I have to evac.</p><p>However, my Swashy is, IMHO, vastly superior at farming Kaladim for shinies. 12-hour stealth simply owns 10-minute invis, when you need to wait patiently for mobs to path out of the way. Since I've made FAR more money farming Kaladim for shinies, I could say that when it comes to making money, my Swashy is easily superior to any other class I've played. OTOH, it's also a matter of relative levels: my Conjuror is only 48th level & fairly poorly geared atm -- because I've not been playing him as much -- while my Swashy is 70th level & fairly well-geared, for a "casual non-raider".</p>

[Cocytus]

<cite>Krontak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes, we are the top of the dps chain.  I've even heard of Swashbucklers getting 3k zonewide parses.   5k parses on a single target.  I often solo Halls of Fate, usually afk.  I just start attacking and walk away, even on the named.  It's pretty overpowering but hey, I can keep a secret if you can.</p><p>As far as tanking we outtank even Guardians.  There is no better suited class to tank with than the swashbuckler.  We handle spike damage even more efficiently than with Tower of Stone/Tsunammi.  Our avoidance rivals that of monks and bruisers and is generally 30-40% higher than brawlers. </p><p>We have the best crowd control out of all classes often compared to illu/coercers.  The swashbucklers charm spell is by far the most affected charm spell out there.</p><p>And as far as high hits, nobody even comes close.  Necromancers and wizards lifeburn and manaburn come nowhere close to our nukes.  I once got a critical hit on one of my CA's and took out a named in Halls of Fate.  I couldn't believe it!</p><p>I hope I've been helpful.  Good luck.</p></blockquote>Rofl krontak rules, mmmmmkay

[liveja]

<p>Well, actually, compared to all other classes -- which have no sexy at all -- we Swashies are probably totally overpowered as Babe Magnets.</p><p><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[TheSource123]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dunno, compared to all the other classes I've played, Swashy seemed to be the easiest.</p></blockquote><p>"Easiest" at <b>what</b>? Without being more specific, you're not really saying anything.</p><p>My Conjuror has far less trouble taking on single ^^^ named mobs. As a Swashy, I cannot seem to figure out how to kill them, even when they're 10 levels below me. Sometimes I get lucky; most times, I have to evac.</p><p>However, my Swashy is, IMHO, vastly superior at farming Kaladim for shinies. 12-hour stealth simply owns 10-minute invis, when you need to wait patiently for mobs to path out of the way. Since I've made FAR more money farming Kaladim for shinies, I could say that when it comes to making money, my Swashy is easily superior to any other class I've played. OTOH, it's also a matter of relative levels: my Conjuror is only 48th level & fairly poorly geared atm -- because I've not been playing him as much -- while my Swashy is 70th level & fairly well-geared, for a "casual non-raider".</p></blockquote><p>What I was trying to say was that Swashbucklers are a hybrid class, and that they can do everything very well. You easily out-tank and outparse the Brawlers, who were designed to be hybrid classes, and you have far more group utility. It might be a problem with Brawlers more than it is Swashies, but right now you've got the best of both worlds, lots of DPS with good amounts of non-raid tankage.</p><p>My Swashy could solo borderline blue ^^^'s and easily kill the green ones. So could my Conjuror, but can my conjuror pull aggro all it wants with no real fear of dieing? No =/ I'm not saying there's no such thing as a good Swashy, because I know a few skilled players that have Swashies and group/raid with them, they all hardly ever play their Swashies anymore because they got bored of them. </p><p>However I also know a few complete and total idiots who have no idea how to use their skills, manage aggro, or pay attention to their location/group's location, and yet, their stats and skills and gear allow them to outparse, out-tank, and out-"make money" me easily. These are also the same people who brag every chance they get, parse every fight, and have gear that they got in their 20's that they never bothered to upgrade. Not to be biased because there are tons of good scouts, but 80% of the idiots I've met have been Swashies. They all brag about it and when I ask them if they have any other chars, they say "Yah but my Swashy is the best, he totally pwns everything<insert trash mob parse here>"</p><p>I thought I was the hybrid class? I've looked at your armor stats, skills, etc., and the class needs a push in one direction, you can't give a class tanking and DPSing if they are both going to be huge...</p><p>If you're a good player (And you know who you are) don't even mind this post, because there's nothing wrong with playing a Swash, if you enjoy it, good for j00. A good Swashy is about as good as any other very well played DPS class, with a bit of tanking thrown in. However a bad Swashy is far better than your average bad, any other class. That's overpowered O.o. </p>

[liveja]

<cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>However a bad Swashy is far better than your average bad, any other class. </blockquote><p>I responded to this assertion on the Gameplay forum, so I won't go over it again here. Suffice to say I disagree with this point entirely. </p>

[Iseabeil]

<cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>livejazz wrote: <p>What I was trying to say was that Swashbucklers are a hybrid class, and that they can do everything very well. You easily out-tank and outparse the Brawlers, who were designed to be hybrid classes, and you have far more group utility. It might be a problem with Brawlers more than it is Swashies, but right now you've got the best of both worlds, lots of DPS with good amounts of non-raid tankage.</p></blockquote><p> Ive got a 70 swashie and a 70 monk. My swashie is in mainly fabled with almost all m1, my monk is in mainly claymore rewards with some legendary and fabled weapons with mainly adep3 and some m1's. I have 3 accounts and I box a lot, swashie and monk are on seperate accounts, and I got a 70 warden on third. So far my swashie hasnt been able to out-tank my monk since my warden/monk was in their 50's and I mentored them, and then it was because of mentoring makin a character a good bit overpowered compaired to characters at that level for real. I three boxed the whole claymore line minus the epic with monk as tank before EoF, I even created the monk/warden because my prior set up with swashie tanking *couldnt do it*. Tsunami, Spirit like mountain, Tranquil vision etc.. Swashbucklers has none of that, and althou other tank classes have heftier tanking abilities then brawlers, its still more then what rogues have. We got the taunt, and at sacrifice of either dps or utility, AE taunt with reactive if ye go that far, but hate generation is only part of a tanks repertoire. Sure, Ive tanked most t7 EoF instances (besides unrest) with both characters and swashies can tank it, but I feel a LOT more comfortable doin it on the monk, and not due to archetype ideas but because it was easier and safer for the group. There are some great rogue tanks out there, but Id bet they could be even better on classes with all tank skills.</p>

[TheSource123]

I suppose my Monk/Bruiser's gear just wasn't that good and the idiot Swashy I know was the only person I really had to compare myself to. (He is M1/Fabled) It's more of a problem with Brawlers than it is with other classes, although I still think Swashies aren't squishy enough.

[Deaudlus]

<cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose my Monk/Bruiser's gear just wasn't that good and the idiot Swashy I know was the only person I really had to compare myself to. (He is M1/Fabled) It's more of a problem with Brawlers than it is with other classes, although I still think Swashies aren't squishy enough.</blockquote>Well, rangers and asns both generally out damage a swashy they are are equally as "not squighy"

[liveja]

<cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still think Swashies aren't squishy enough.</blockquote><p>I'm pretty squishy. I get away with most of what I do solely because of DPS & stealth.</p>

[TheSource123]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still think Swashies aren't squishy enough.</blockquote><p>I'm pretty squishy. I get away with most of what I do solely because of DPS & stealth.</p></blockquote><p> Thanks for actually giving me some responses BTW. I guess I just got the idea that they are OP'd because of the idiot that brags a lot. Krontak hasn't helped at all however, like usual...</p><p>Message to Krontak: You are far too hostile towards people, this was a thread to just raise a question and get some responses, and that's what I got. Please stop acting like the king of the forums, it's really getting in other people's way. If you want to prove a point leave out all of the "Wow you're such a [Removed for Content] noob....king of contradiction...joke of the forums.." Because it makes the actual facts of your post, which are actually very intelligible, seem very....uncredible.  =/ Plus, you said on the general forum that I should consider that the "idiot player" is better than me...I have, he is not. What he does have though it a lot of gear/Master 1's.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess I just got the idea that they are OP'd because of the idiot that brags a lot. </blockquote><p>Well, truth to tell, there have been quite a few occasions on which I <b>have</b> felt over-powered. However, every time that delusion strikes me, something happens to make me realize I'm not invincible. </p><p>I honestly think "over-powered" is a relative term that can't be easily, generally defined.</p>

[Cocytus]

<cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still think Swashies aren't squishy enough.</blockquote><p>I'm pretty squishy. I get away with most of what I do solely because of DPS & stealth.</p></blockquote><p> Thanks for actually giving me some responses BTW. I guess I just got the idea that they are OP'd because of the idiot that brags a lot. Krontak hasn't helped at all however, like usual...</p><p>Message to Krontak: You are far too hostile towards people, this was a thread to just raise a question and get some responses, and that's what I got. Please stop acting like the king of the forums, it's really getting in other people's way. If you want to prove a point leave out all of the "Wow you're such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] noob....king of contradiction...joke of the forums.." Because it makes the actual facts of your post, which are actually very intelligible, seem very....uncredible.  =/ Plus, you said on the general forum that I should consider that the "idiot player" is better than me...I have, he is not. What he does have though it a lot of gear/Master 1's.</p></blockquote> You are an idiot, sir.

[TheSource123]

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still think Swashies aren't squishy enough.</blockquote><p>I'm pretty squishy. I get away with most of what I do solely because of DPS & stealth.</p></blockquote><p> Thanks for actually giving me some responses BTW. I guess I just got the idea that they are OP'd because of the idiot that brags a lot. Krontak hasn't helped at all however, like usual...</p><p>Message to Krontak: You are far too hostile towards people, this was a thread to just raise a question and get some responses, and that's what I got. Please stop acting like the king of the forums, it's really getting in other people's way. If you want to prove a point leave out all of the "Wow you're such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] noob....king of contradiction...joke of the forums.." Because it makes the actual facts of your post, which are actually very intelligible, seem very....uncredible.  =/ Plus, you said on the general forum that I should consider that the "idiot player" is better than me...I have, he is not. What he does have though it a lot of gear/Master 1's.</p></blockquote> You are an idiot, sir. </blockquote>Since you decide that, right? Y'all are a bunch of drama-queens except for livejazz.

[Krontak]

You still here?  I thought we shoo'ed you away some time ago.