Raiding Templar DPS parses?

[Istaril]

I'm still fairly new to the templar class (having betrayed over) - and haven't had a chance to compare my abilities to that of other templars. Either we have two - one in the main tank group and one in an offtank/dps group, or one - in the main tank group - so we're never in comparable circumstances. It becomes hard for me to know whereabouts I should be parsing when I'm given the opportunity to go all-out DPS. I'd like to ask a few high-end raiding templars who have had the opportunity to worm their way into optimal dps conditions and see where they stand on Raid fights. I expect a certain disparity - I play on a pvp server on Qeynos side, and lack debuffs and some classes that can help dps, but I'd still like to see how large the gap is. (Just for comparison; a few of my better  DPS parses from last night's mistmoore inner sanctum. Only successful attempts - no skewered "first 5 seconds" dps. My group generally had a wizard, warlock, troubadour, paladin, templar (me), and conjuror. Illusionists couldn't spare synergism or time compression <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and I'm out of Favour for Ro's Fury) D'lizta Cheroon Istaril 402207 -|- 1349.69 DPS V'Tekla K'Zalk Istaril 357368 -|- 1175.55 DPS D'Lizta Vis'win Istaril 360415 -|- 1238.54 DPS A Blood Colossus Istaril 425430 -|- 1240.32 DPS

[Danter]

<p>What weapon do you use?</p><p>With Hammer of the Dragonborn and a similar group setup, I parse between 900 - 1500.</p><p>I agree, as a 2nd templar on the raid, you should be DPS'ing when there is no need for an offtank.</p><p>Dantz, 70 Templar on Unrest, Vendetta</p>

[Istaril]

Grizzlefazzle stick - for the proc. I'm basically 98% caster DPS, although I have a staff of the prismatic keepers I can swap in for melee dps, that'd only be if I was in a group with very good melee buffs - as I'm not AA specc'd for (melee) crits. It's a bit different - but it's allowed me to get the STR-line debuff (and as Qeynos only, we need every debuff we can get), and some focus/disruption which has helped on higher con mobs and in a pvp setting. Things were much simpler back in the old days as an Inquisitor! I think I've only parsed around 1500 once on a named (And only when another templar had the debuffs covered), so I suspect I'm still a little ways from your dps - but that may mostly be the difference between Qeynos-only debuffs on the mob and having dispatches and the like. As for the "Agreeing" - well, a healer is a poor choice for 80-90% of the raid, and essential for the other 10-20%. By throwing in 1000+ DPS consistantly, you're less of a "Wasted slot".

[RipFlex]

<p>RipEscence    0.0  |  0.0</p><p>Pretty much it... I just Heal/Cure/Debuff in raids.</p>

[Whitemane]

<cite>Istaril wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><snippity></p><p> D'lizta Cheroon Istaril 402207 -|- 1349.69 DPS V'Tekla K'Zalk Istaril 357368 -|- 1175.55 DPS D'Lizta Vis'win Istaril 360415 -|- 1238.54 DPS A Blood Colossus Istaril 425430 -|- 1240.32 DPS </p><p>I dont mean this as a "I call shennanigans" call as I know I'd be pretty stoked to get that high but I doubt I could. ( This is with being in the MT group and Fully Fabled and mastered out & maxed FT) so Im curious how you managed this on the colossus. The undead I can see using HO's and smites as they are undead. But on the colussus ...  What AA's and Gear? I know PvP gear is pretty sweet but with your group not sure how you would have maintaned that? Is this for just the first one or the encounter?  Our Raid Wide DPS is usually ~22k and the fight still takes a few minutes and our DPS classes sometimes dont get that high if they gap out durring the fight ( as they are long and really booring ).</p></blockquote>

[Uilamin]

look at his group "wizard, warlock, troubadour, paladin, templar (me), and conjuror" He should get some nice +int out of that, with AA melee maxed out, spell speed maxed, and then if he took the EoF damage line it wouldn't be that hard to imagine.

[Istaril]

No pvp gear. This is my dps gear; 395 int base, a good crit pot (or int pot). Bone Clasped Girdle, Finger Bone Manacle, Grizzlefazzle Mace, Ro solusek cloak, Ogham stone, Mark of Awakened, Buckler of Blight, Electrified Greaves. AA: STR 4-8-4-7, INT 4-4-8-8-1, 5/5/5/5 in Smites, and 1 in Smite Wrath. My dps in full heal gear and in an MT group drops to about 400. That collosus is on the Encounter. I forced my group warden to do all the healing. I may have had time compression for that fight though.

[Mo-S]

As much as I love to dps and make laugh of guardians, I prefer to heal some on nameds fights <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I have similar AA setup as <b><span style="color: #3333ff">Istaril</span></b>. <blockquote> V'Tekla K'Zalk Istaril 357368 -|- 1175.55 DPS</blockquote> I started dpsing after adds were down, and rest healers on mt. I did around 750. I have in group guard, dirgy, defiler, warden and swashy. With same group I did around 1k DPS on two Blood Colossus. My best dps was on trash in EH. With zerk, dirgy and monk in group, and 157 haste I did 1467DPS. But I think max limit for it is around 1800 - with little more DPS mod bonuses. I have to try it with AGI and STR rings, some cloak with haste buff (than I can put ado with proc dmg on my hammer). With trub, pally, illu and wizard in group I did 1338. But it can be beter <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> With guard, coercer and no extra buffs I can reach 1000dps (with hammer and DR). Normally I parse at 600-800. I use Hammer of the Tribunal's Judgment with +20 haste adorment. Another thing worth to try is this equipment: Calcified Bone Spaulders - proc with +25DPS mod Buckler of the Howler - proc with +25DPS mod Mistmoore Cloak - haste 30, 2% to melee and spell crits plus agi and str moonstone rings <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As a weapon: Inlaid Rock Hammer - 1h 83.4 rating with ae proc 339 magic dmg, plus some cool ado or Knotty Pine Cudgel - 1h 88.6 rating with proc 729 crushing, plus some cool ado. And than, put me me in group with zerk, dirgy and monk, put JC and lets rock <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 1800DPS should be very easy than <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Istaril]

Picked up a few new ornaments and Fitzpizzle's misty protector, and have every intention of parsing above 1500 on our next Cheroon attempt.

[Uilamin]

You may want to try using Vraskin's Club for your dps output as it has a damage proc based on spells cast and with autoattack and autocrit it produces one of the best weapons in the game.

[Ziggurat2]

I parse about 1300 on a regular basis. If I go all out I top out around 1800-1900. My group is: Berserker, Swashbuckler, Warden, Mystic, Dirge, and myself. I think I parse really quite nicely, usually in the top 5 on our raid. I play on a PVP server so we don't have brigands, which may be why it seems a little low that our dps classes don't parse more than 1300 all of the time.

[Whitemane]

<p>Well first off thanks for answering and keeping it civil =D I thought I might have sounded a bit accusatory  ( is that a word? ) in my first post so I was kinda expecting a flame war =].</p><p>With 50 points down STAM and INT / Blessings and Cures ( cookie cutter raid healer spec really ) I do about ~600-800DPS if I try and heal as well. Never really tried doing too much DPS on a raid as well Im always in the MT group ( master group Mit spells kinda ensures that as the Tanks whine about their HP otherwise =D). All my adornments are +Healing or FT / Power procs. Int is ~300 ( not sure have too look )</p><p>  Hmm interesting to see as I had expected us to max out a bit closer to 1k sustained going DPS crazy as it were. LOL Furies beware ;p </p><p> And I agree with this too:</p><p> "By throwing in 1000+ DPS consistantly, you're less of a "Wasted slot"." ( Though Id say we're never wasted But Im baised )</p>

[Ziggurat2]

I'm curious to know what DPS classes tend to parse towards the top on PVE server? On my server the raiding organization isn't a guild, so it's more difficult to... prod or less motivated DPS. Our best DPSer usually parses about 2000 zonewide, but again being single faction it's hard to tell what all the benefits of multi-faction grouping would do for our DPS. In order to DPS as a templar a strong understanding of the mechanics needs to be had - especially those behind crit, since we get 100% of it. The same goes for mystics, wardens, and inquisitors. Over 40% of my damage comes from crushing, usually another 10% from other melee related sources (procs such as cacophony.) The best weapon for a templar DPSing is easily the Vrak'sakin Claw Club. It has a large range on damage (1-404) . In addition to this I believe our Nem Anhk set would give us a large boost in damage. STA and Smiting lines are the most important - AGI would probably provide larger amounts of sustained dps depending on accuracy in a fight, but divine recovery gives us a nice tool for burst dps or burst healing, being perhaps a more useful line overall(especially with no benefit from the cover while using a 2h.) After I collect my sixth piece of Nem Anhk I'll post again with my findings. I'm hoping for no less than a 150 average dps increase. Of course it will be useful for healing too.

[Rakh]

<p>Im more than happy to say, as a raiding Templar, I only parse around 200DPS on a raid. Why? Cause im a healer <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I spose it is different when you are the MT Temp. I am always in the top 3 of healers tho. Usually top 2 (unless we get bored and do CWM). </p><p>Its all good and well having high DPS for a raid but how often are the tier 1 DPS getting the spot heals they need? Our 2nd Templar is usually in oftank group and parses around 600DPS. Again because of spot healing. There is some nasty raid AoE's out there and there are usually 15 other DPS out there that can do alot more damage than us so why not keep em alive</p>

[Uilamin]

If you aren't in the MT group just make sure everyone have Glory up on them so that way when they attack they ahve help spot heal the group =P As for spot healing the tank, the best thing to use is /useabilityontarget and macro all your heals as such so you can heal and dps easily without switching targets.

[Istaril]

Well, my parting days as a Qeynos templar - as my guild and I are going Exile to overcome the raiding barrier we've hit. I expect Dispatch will increase my DPS some more <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Here are some of my parses from Monday Night's MMIS named/major encounters (All fights over 3minutes) D'Lizta Cheroon: Istaril 1244 DPS A Blood Colossus: Istaril 1174 DPS D'Lizta Viswin: Istaril 1361 DPS Tactician's Armour: Istaril 1015 DPS  (Was in a tank group, not a dps group) A Blood Colossus: Istaril 1298 DPS Which overall seem fairly consistant - the orange con of the greater vampires offset by the undead nuke's double damage and the fast burn from 10% down. Come a few days from now, in exile, we'll see what the effect of Freeport Debuffs on those same mobs are - the only thing likley to have changed on my end is that I've picked up Judging Smite (Master), which makes me very very happy.

[Kocia]

<p>Templar raid DPS should be 0.00</p><p>If it isn't then the Templar is redundant and the raid leader should bring a fury or a real DPS class.</p>

[Istaril]

I'd have to disagree with you on that one. Even if you ARE in the main tank group - 0 dps is wasteful. You can EASILY do 200+ dps without reducing your heal output, keeping all your debuffs up, and not endangering your mana pool. With Smites, that goes up to an easy 400 - while still doing all those things at their maximum. And when I say easy - I mean it. I'm typically doing ~500 when I'm the only MT templar AND I put on all my heal proc gear (none of my dps gear) - and I'm in a qeynos-only guild. There are a few exceptions where my DPS will drop to as low as 100, but that's due to need for extreme power conservation. In addition; Blessings is a major favourite in our caster groups. Why put a fury in that group when the templar casts faster, gains MORE damage from POTM and Frigid Gift (etc), and increases the proc chance of the whole group by 25%? Sure - there are reasons to, depending on the damage intake of the group, but templars make a really nice candidate for caster-group healers. Secondly, having a second templar in raid can come in very handy when it needs to be swapped to an off-tank group - but it doesn't belong there on every fight.

[Kocia]

<p>Right, I am completely with you on all points.  I am more referring to those looking for "impressive" DPS parses in this thread.  Way to miss out on the strenghts of the class.</p><p>One of the best templars I played with maintained 0.00 with pride as MT group templar.  When he wanted to DPS he brought his warlock alt.  Nuff said.</p>

[Rakh]

<p>I would like to see your DPS in the MT group in a place like EH (Farstride Unicorn etc not the easy mobs), or fighting Mayong.  I guess another question is are you spot healing other people in the raid? Are they dieing? </p><p>Remember if a DPS class dies so does the amount of DPS they can output. Then your 1000DPS means jack cause the 2-3k DPS they usually put out is halved and sometimes even more than that.</p><p>My guild is more than happy with me if Im doing 0 DPS because it means the MT is alive and usually also our Warlocks and Wizards are as well!</p><p>Labs and LoA and all those other KOS zones are very easy to get your DPS up but hey whats the point. 3 groups can roll through those zones in less than an hr each! Thats the place to play with your DPS. YOu hardly need to heal the tank</p>

[SomanSeltak]

<p>one of the best templars i have ever played with was me and my raid dps is higher than discussed.</p><p>best regards,</p><p>soman seltak</p>

[Istaril]

Nobody is dying on Blood Colossuses, Cheroon, Viswim or Tactician's Armour - and when I spot-heal I take advantage of the 7 second smite wrath disable to refresh my debuffs. As for my DPS on Farstride and Mayong - our guild has killed neither. We're still a ways behind most PvE guilds on progression, despite being the top-city aligned guild on all pve servers. Because both proved fights where mana is an extreme issue for us, though, my DPS parses are extremely low - mostly the product of procs while debuffing and maintaining On our only really decent Farstride attempt (Mob to 44) - I did 154.93 DPS while topping the heal parse (from my perspective) with 152160 (Although range to other healers and off-tank skewers whether that is actually the top). I was in an MT group (Mystic/Templar/Paladin/Dirge(?)) I don't know if that's good or not - but without Freeport debuffs/hearts/buffs/classes, it felt like the best I could do. This was the first few learning attempts, so I was extremely conservative with power though - and I suspect that once we actually kill the mob, I'll be climbing back up to a comfortable 500 when I have a feel for the pace. Our Mistmoore attempts have been too short to gague acurately - and we're still playing with positioning and add handling to get a working strat, so my parses are pretty close to 0 as I play it cautious to buy us time untill we find something that works.

[Kocia]

<cite>SomanSeltak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>one of the best templars i have ever played with was me and my raid dps is higher than discussed.</p><p>best regards,</p><p>soman seltak</p></blockquote> Higher than discussed?  Over 1200?  Then you're nothing but a [Removed for Content] dps class wannabe.  DPS-thirsty templars are a horrible role model for anyone.  You are superfluous to the raid if you maintain that dps.  One of the best templars, yeah for me to .... on.

[Istaril]

If I don't need to heal in a fight, I'm a wasted slot unless I try my best to contribute in other ways. 1200-1500 DPS and 3 debuffs is my way of contributing on those (MANY) fights I don't need to heal.

[SomanSeltak]

<p>all the templars say "go on, try it!" but you do not!</p><p>a respec is about one silver, is it not?</p>

[Istaril]

Well, exiling certainly has made a difference! D'Lizta Viswin : Istaril 1216 May not seem like much - lower than my previous parses from the zone - but this time I was the only reactive healer on the raid, and in a tank group (Dirge/Coercer/Defiler/Guardian/Assassin?/Templar), and using no god abilities/crit potions/int potions etc. And we have to hold DPS for the mob's heal before we go on to the final burn. Most of the rest of the names in that zone I was only about 300-600, but once again, as only reactive healer, I didn't have anywhere near as much of an opening to dps. I wanted to get a larger sample size, and some more shots at a troub/wizard in group (Frigid Gift, Dissonant Note) - but I've been cornered into, by virtue of a shortage of clerics, doing a disproportionate amount of healing. And now I need to take a 3 week break, as I enjoy my vacation, but when I come back, I'm quite certain I'll have a chance to be parsing ~1800 in the right circumstances.