Popularity of this game?

[Nick4591]

I just purchased this game and started playing a day ago. With World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and the new LOTR RPG coming out, what does the future of EQ2 look like? Is the EQ2 population already dwindling due to the insane popularity of WoW? At my local super market, there's an entire two shelves in the computer game section dedicated to WoW game cards (Anywhere from 50-100 cards availible at any given time for purchase), and there are only about six SoE game cards availible. It would be a shame if the population got to a point where the content of this game is weakened by a lack of players. I'm worried that in the future it may be difficult, or near impossible, for me to find groups for raids and other high level content. What do you think will happen in the future?

[Windowlicker]

Literally this exact same question is posed at least once a day. Currently this *is* the best MMO.

[Nick4591]

I apologize. I looked through the forum for a similiar post, and apparently I didn't do a very good job.

[Windowlicker]

<cite>Nick4591 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I apologize. I looked through the forum for a similiar post, and apparently I didn't do a very good job.</blockquote> No prob at all, surely you'll see many more <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Araxes]

To actually answer your question, now. The population in this game is and has been for about 1.5 years considerably lower than you will find in any of the three games you mention above.  That's not a reflection of the game itself - it's a combination of factors - primarily some bad impressions, and therefore some bad press reviews, at launch, some of which were rightly justified, I'll say - that has left a lasting impression on people. However in the 2 years since this game was released, it has improved <i><b>monumentally</b></i>.  I would never go so far as to say <i>any </i>MMO is "the best" -- after all, that is plainly a matter of taste and opinion -- but speaking in terms of gameplay and design principles, EQ2 is a truly fantastic game.  That's not me as a "fanboi" speaking - it's me speaking as a gamer who has been gaming for more than 20 years, and played just about every game out there, on any system you can name.  This is a solid, great game. So you can certainly expect to have a lot of fun playing it. However, don't expect to find groups falling from the sky.  Some nights there are none to be had.  It's a fact.  Even on the most crowded servers, there are dry spells.  This is due mostly to the fact that the population has stabilized and most of us reside at the far end of the level spectrum; comparatively speaking, the low levels are barren.  Your best bet, as I always tell people, is to take initiative and put a group together, yourself.  Barring that, find an active, social-oriented guild that focuses on questing, crawling, and grouping with eachother. 

[Ever-Befallen]

<a href="mailto:Zahne@Mistmoore" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Zahne@Mistmoore</a> wrote: <blockquote>Literally this exact same question is posed at least once a day. Currently this *is* the best MMO. </blockquote> In some peoples opinion, of course ... Most from WoW will say the same about their game, and the same about Vanguard .. however I'm surprised at the low amount of the game cards, due to it being for several games rather than just one title.

[Kri]

I think EQ2's biggest problem is the complete lack of marketing. Even if they will never get as many subscribers as WoW they could bank on the increased interest in MMOs that WoW has created. My local game store had one(!) copy of EoF and a gazillion copies of WoW: BC. Blizzard has created the wave but SOE refuse to ride it. Wonder why...

[Nuhus]

Can't seem to find anything EQ2 related in my local area. Though walmart does have EQ. =/

[metacell]

I have a feeling that EQ2 will age very well. The quests, lore, dialogue, graphics, sound effects, voice-overs, etc, are all very high quality. EQ2 aims at a slightly older audience, that tends to focus on one game and play it for a longer time.

[RpTheHotrod]

<p>In the end, I doubt that WoW would last as long as EverQuest has survived. EQ was popular enough to merit a strong sequel. WoW is still a baby in the world of MMORPGs.</p><p>Think of it this way.</p><p> EQ has been around the block. It's old and getting a few grey hairs. However, it has had a long, productive, purposeful, and successfull life. It has been a stepping stone and example to every mmorpg out on the market now and many years to come. Now comes along a young, new "hip" kid on the block...WoW. Naturally, most of the community's eyes will fall upon the new and cool thing. However, it's unlikely that this new kid will accomplish as much as the older MMORPG has once the "cool" kid starts getting its own grey hairs. Cool is a phase....but really accomplishing something is what lasts. EverQuest is a large accomplishment in the world of gaming, and if it ever does perish, it's something the gaming community will never forget. Cool phases come and go, but EverQuest will stay forever as part of the foundation of MMORPG gaming.</p><p>You can tear down a house time and time again, rebuilding after every loss...but the foundation will always remain.</p><p>My point is...sure WoW is popular and "successfull" in many people's eyes. However, will it last? What happens when the next cool thing shows up? EQ has, in my opinion, holds the title of the best quality MMORPG series to date. If it ever does die off, you can bet that you'll always find parts of its style in  most, if not all, future MMORPGs. I doubt many could say the same for WoW.</p>

[Naubeta]

WoW does so well because of it's low system requirements. It's as simple as that I think. If someone could wave a wand and magically make EQ2 run at 30fps+ on everyones pc then it would probably have taken off too.

[Beldin_]

<cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In the end, I doubt that WoW would last as long as EverQuest has survived. EQ was popular enough to merit a strong sequel. WoW is still a baby in the world of MMORPGs.</p></blockquote><p>You forget one thing .. if Blizzard anounces WoW 2, and in 10 years the bring out a 3D Version of Pac-Man .. every Kid around will buy i, and they will believe that it is the greates Game ever, and Blizzard has reinvemted the wheel and whatever <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Nah .. on the other hand i must say i'm happy that we don't have that much people here, because more people mostly means more idiots and crybabys or whatever.</p><p>I never played WoW .. but i played Diablo 1 and 2 for long years, and while the audience in D1 was very nice (and small) in D2 you suddenly had masses of crying idiots due to the fact that we got flatrates for everyone that time in german. And i never ever thought about playing WoW, because i knew, i will have to deal with all these idiots on a server, while in D2 i had the possibbility just to make a private game. </p>

[SignumX]

Its probably less popular then eq1 atm and will only get worse. Don't get me wrong i like the game alot but it will die before eq1 does.

[Klanch]

<p>I've played EQ since day one and like EQ2 much better than WoW, but ...</p><p>EQ2 does not like my ATI graphics card.</p><p>EQ2 will not run on my laptop.</p><p>EQ2 cannot be found at my local Walmarts.</p><p>EQ2 will not run on my Mac.</p><p>The marketing mess is like "the chicken and the egg". Did Sony's move to digital downloads of expansions cause retailers to drop the game, or did Sony start offering digital downloads because distribution is so bad? If I remember correctly Sony made the first move down this path and now they are suffering for it. I also think a lot of people got tired of building a computer just to run EQ, especially with so many people moving to notebook computers.</p>

[Klanch]

<cite>SignumX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its probably less popular then eq1 atm and will only get worse. Don't get me wrong i like the game alot but it will die before eq1 does.</blockquote> How is EQ1 doing? I logged in a couple years ago and was lost with the changes to the Bazaar. Started to play EQ1 a bit last fall and really missed some of the interface features of EQ2.

[Haphasto]

I started playing EQ2 within the first couple of days of it's release.  During that time the game was very crowded, there were multiple instances of almost every zone.  Anyone could find a group within probably about 30 seconds of shouting.  Now over the course of time since release alot of people were turned off do to the negative qualities that haunted EQ2.  And while EQ2 was receiving all of this negative publicity, World of Warcraft was receiving rave reviews, being called "The perfect MMORPG".  So a huge chunk of people left EQ2 with a bad impression, including myself, and most will probably never return again. Fortunately for us the game has improved immensely.  I recently just returned to EQ2 after a long break.  During that break I played WoW, and a little bit of Vanguard.  WoW got boring fast, there just wasn't much to do as a casual player except find people with question marks, and battlegrounds.  Vanguard was running so horribly on my laptop that it wasn't even worth playing.  So I came back to EQ2 and decided to start a NEW character on the PVP server, and I must say that I have not had as much fun on a MMORPG since the early days of EQ.  I can't really comment on the other servers, but atleast on Nagafen the game is no where close to dead.  It's not massively populated, but there's a good share of players around all levels.  I've been playing casually for a month now and am level 33.  As a swashbuckler I really have no problem getting a group.  Sometimes I have to have patience and wait a little while before someone invites me, but 9/10 I do get a successful group.  And even when i'm not grouping there is SO much to do that you can keep yourself busy while LFG. Currently EQ2 in my opinion is the highest quality MMORPG you can play right now.  It's doing so many things right, and the community is also very mature, kind, and helpful.  I really haven't ran into any bad apples yet.  But last but not least the game is just absolutely great fun!  If you're looking to see 50 people hunting in a zone, or expect to get a group going within 5 minutes of play, then maybe this game isn't for you.  But if you have just a little bit of patience there are plenty of people out there willing to play and group with you.  It's just a shame so many people were left with a bad impression and are not able to enjoy such a good quality game. And just a side note, I recently bought a new high speed desktop so I could play Vanguard better, but I am having so much fun with EQ2 that I have no desire to even play it anymore.

[Brigh]

<cite>Klanch wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SignumX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its probably less popular then eq1 atm and will only get worse. Don't get me wrong i like the game alot but it will die before eq1 does.</blockquote> How is EQ1 doing? I logged in a couple years ago and was lost with the changes to the Bazaar. Started to play EQ1 a bit last fall and really missed some of the interface features of EQ2.</blockquote> It must be doing well enough to release yet another expansion. EOF is to EQ2 as The Serpent's Spine (TSS) is to EQ1 (you never have to leave the expansion from 1-75).

[gi]

Currently this is the best mmo out there, at least until Warhammer Online anyhow, which I hope will lead the way for next gen mmo's. The problem is that SoE do not market the game at all from what I see in the UK. You don't see many of the games in Shops, Posters, advertising on TV. They rely pretty much on word of mouth, which is a cheap way of advertising but not the most effective. <b>This is an Awesome game</b>, but whenever you talk to a non mmo gamer, they have only ever heard of WoW, and of course eq1 as the Father of the MMO Genre(imo). The popularity of this game would be a lot higher if more people knew about it!

[Thunderthyze]

Shadowbreath@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>I think EQ2's biggest problem is the complete lack of marketing. Even if they will never get as many subscribers as WoW they could bank on the increased interest in MMOs that WoW has created. My local game store had one(!) copy of EoF and a gazillion copies of WoW: BC. Blizzard has created the wave but SOE refuse to ride it. Wonder why...</blockquote> Amen! Totally agree

[Thunderthyze]

<cite>Klanch wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I also think a lot of people got tired of building a computer just to run EQ, especially with so many people moving to notebook computers.</p></blockquote> I think that crown has been passed firmly on to Vanguard now....<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Thunderthyze]

Rlaal@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Currently this is the best mmo out there, at least until Warhammer Online anyhow, which I hope will lead the way for next gen mmo's. The problem is that SoE do not market the game at all from what I see in the UK. You don't see many of the games in Shops, Posters, advertising on TV. They rely pretty much on word of mouth, which is a cheap way of advertising but not the most effective. <b>This is an Awesome game</b>, but whenever you talk to a non mmo gamer, they have only ever heard of WoW, and of course eq1 as the Father of the MMO Genre(imo). The popularity of this game would be a lot higher if more people knew about it! </blockquote> Last weekend The Times ran an 8 page supplement devoted to WoW. One article discussed other MMORPGs and EQ1 was included, together with a small b/w shot of a deserted zone, together with most of the current crop of WoW competition, tellingly <u>except</u> EQ2 and Vanguard, and the odd colour photo. At the end of the article, supposedly penned by an independent magazine editor, there were weblinks to the other games. <u>Except</u> that Everquest's link was to EQ1! I have to say that Blizzard to a fabulous job at marketting whereby they get a national newspaper to pay for a supposed non advertising supplement then ensure that none of the true competition gets a look in. When is SOE going to hit back? I don't mind playing a secret game, just so long as there continues to be other people to play it with!

[Tasye]

<cite>Nick4591 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just purchased this game and started playing a day ago. With World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and the new LOTR RPG coming out, what does the future of EQ2 look like? Is the EQ2 population already dwindling due to the insane popularity of WoW? At my local super market, there's an entire two shelves in the computer game section dedicated to WoW game cards (Anywhere from 50-100 cards availible at any given time for purchase), and there are only about six SoE game cards availible. It would be a shame if the population got to a point where the content of this game is weakened by a lack of players. I'm worried that in the future it may be difficult, or near impossible, for me to find groups for raids and other high level content. What do you think will happen in the future?</blockquote>With no money spent promoting the game, few new players will join. Older players will leave for greener pastures due to lack of things to do/boredom/bad expansions/SOE and the game will slowly wither on the vine, but not die, and it will coast along with 75k users and the random .5arsed expansion once or twice a year. EoF was the future of EQ2, and that future is pretty dim, just like the rest of SOE's MMO's.

[liveja]

<cite>Tasye wrote:</cite><blockquote>EoF was the future of EQ2, and that future is pretty dim, just like the rest of SOE's MMO's. </blockquote>I looked out my bedroom window this morning, & OMG!!!! The SKY was falling!!!!!!!! LOOK, there goes a great big piece of it RIGHT NOW!!!!!

[gi]

Looks like most people are in agreement that we have a good game here with eq2. But if SoE continue to ignore marketing, as it appears they do. The game is not doomed, but numbers that dwindle will not be replaced if SoE don't put some effort into marketing. Recently in the UK Turbine&Codemasters released beta versions of LOTRO on several of the Computer game magazines. Yes they are using the name LOTR to sell the game, but you need to advertise the game exists still!! I really hope someone up there is listening, this game is great, why aren't SoE shouting it from the rooftops! We had a good influx of players when EoF hit , some left after, others stayed, but many still don't know about eq2. Its time to continue marketing even when there is no new expansion!

[Klanch]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tasye wrote:</cite><blockquote>EoF was the future of EQ2, and that future is pretty dim, just like the rest of SOE's MMO's. </blockquote>I looked out my bedroom window this morning, & OMG!!!! The SKY was falling!!!!!!!! LOOK, there goes a great big piece of it RIGHT NOW!!!!! </blockquote><p>This message was brought to you by someone who believed SOE when they said that server mergers are not a result of declining game population. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Maroger]

<p>I think EQ2 is the best all around MMO out there -- it is at its weakest with tradeskills which are really little more than a timesink, but the rest of the game is really great -- much better than EQ1.</p><p>I think the new games coming out will hurt WoW more than EQ2. I have been trying LOTRO and it is very much like WoW in Middle Earth. But Turbine has done some very smart marketing -- Founder prices for pre-orders $9.99 a month or $199 lifetime. That is smart marketing. Plus they have signed with CDC for China distribution. Plus it is a very polished, bug free game. Personally I think LORTO could be a WoW killer -- they are saying the pre-order top 1 Million now.</p><p>But even widly anticipated games can be a flop -- look at Vanguard. So there is no guarantee for Conan and Warhammer will be the success everyone predicts.</p><p>I just wish SOE would do more about marketing the game. And advertise -- they did a little for EOF but that has vanished now and there is no big push for EQ2 anymore. I just don't see much promotion for EQ2 at all. But yet it is encouraging they have at least file for a Kunark expansion with the US Patent Office.</p>

[Carus]

<p>This kind of goes off topic a little bit but Haphasto, you said this a few posts up...</p><p>"WoW got boring fast, there just wasn't much to do as a casual player except find people with question marks, and battlegrounds."</p><p>I guess this question applies to everyone in the thread... I'm just curious, since I'm very much a casual player too and the worry I've been having lately is that I found more to do in WoW as a casual player than I do in EQ2. Don't get me wrong - I absolutely LOVE this game and the community, so I'm not thinking of switching back - but what things do you find make it more casual-friendly than WoW, if you don't mind me asking?</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Klanch wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tasye wrote:</cite><blockquote>EoF was the future of EQ2, and that future is pretty dim, just like the rest of SOE's MMO's. </blockquote>I looked out my bedroom window this morning, & OMG!!!! The SKY was falling!!!!!!!! LOOK, there goes a great big piece of it RIGHT NOW!!!!! </blockquote><p>This message was brought to you by someone who believed SOE when they said that server mergers are not a result of declining game population. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> </blockquote> You're very welcome, Chicken Little.

[liveja]

Carusar wrote: <blockquote><p>I found more to do in WoW as a casual player than I do in EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>I consider myself a "hardcore casual" player. I have a level 70 character. I don't raid much; I don't need to. There are plenty of things for me to do that I consider "fun". Your mileage may vary.</p><p>I also have two level 60 WoW characters. When those characters reached level 60, their lives effectively turned into Raid, PvP, or die. There were no collectibles to hunt for, no player housing to [Removed for Content] out, & the single group instances (all instanced, no open dungeons) were not enough to keep me interested for much longer. While I'm sure the expansion would give me 10 more levels of moderately entertaining game play, I'm equally sure that once I hit 70th level, the game would once again come to a screeching halt. I have already seen evidence of that from posts I've read on the WoW forums.</p><p>WoW is a fine game, for some people. It is not even close to fine, for me.</p>

[Laiina]

<cite>SignumX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its probably less popular then eq1 atm and will only get worse. Don't get me wrong i like the game alot but it will die before eq1 does.</blockquote><p> That is probably why subscribtion numbers are up 40% for EQ2 vs last year....</p><p> We all know that dying games have big sub spikes just before the sky falls.</p>

[Brizlyn]

<p>Marketing Marketing Marketing...</p><p> It also doesn't help that every gaming magazine and web-site out there has dedicated itself to pumping up WOW...is this by chance?  No, Blizzard rewards them all handsomely I am sure.</p><p> For example.. if you go to Gamespot.com and you look up WOW: Burning Crusade, go to the section of similar games - the only games initially listed are Vanguard, Dark age of Camelot, and some game called Ragnarok Online.  [Removed for Content] is Ragnarok Online?</p><p> So then you click on 'More similar games>>>' and you finally get a list that includes Everquest 2...and their 'rating' of it.  Their rating is from back in 2004 at which time they gave it a 7.8.  RIGHT above EQ2 with a 7.8 you see DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS ONLINE with a 7.5!  Most people know D&D online sucked all to hell, and if that got a 7.5 and EQ2 only has a 7.8 then EQ2 must suck!</p><p> Gamespot gives WOW a 9.2 by the way (for the expansion).</p><p> It's stuff like that...IMHO EQ2 is also the best one out there at this time...</p><p> If only people knew about it.</p><p> -Briz</p><p> Quick edit:  I forgot to mention I've played Vanguard & WOW also, so my opinion is not formed without any knowledge of those games.  I like them all, but my favorite is EQ2 for the game it is now.</p>

[FahlenCryptwalk]

<p>I've played most of the big MMO's out there at one point or another, and EQ2 appeals to me the most right now. </p><p> WoW: colorful; funny; accessible to a huge audience (from kids to seniors, entire family friendly); easy on your computer's hardware. Those are key reasons you see millions playing. But once I got a couple characters to 60 and zipped through the tradeskills I felt like I was "done". I had plenty of fun, but at 60 I just didn't feel like there was any character development left besides gear upgrades that I didn't want to raid for, and I'd done most of the quests so levelling up a new alt was just the same ol same ol. Even after the expansion finally came out, I just couldn't get back into it enough again to get more than halfway to 70.</p><p> EQ2 is far more complex (crafting particularly); in-depth (quests, collections, languages, factions, masteries, etc); replayable (I've probably outlevelled more quests and discarded them than I've finished, so plenty of new things for alts to do); the artwork is more subdued but natural; not keeping up with your friends level-wise (or outlevelling them) is a non-issue with the mentor system; the guild system actually gets you involved and attached to your guild, the way it should be; and there's housing so you've got a place to kick up your feet and proudly display all those trophies you've earned and made <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> Timewise I've probably played EQ2 more than I have WoW, yet I still feel like there is so much I haven't seen or accomplished that I would *like* to.  The revamps to EQ2 since launch have made the game MUCH better than it's ever been.  I vastly prefer the general population of EQ2 over the WoW public crowd as well, and the forums here are actually worth reading.</p><p>This game will be around for quite a while .. </p>

[TheSource123]

This game is actually insanely popular considering how bad it's marketing is. SOE needs to get more agressive or they aren't gonna survive in the MMO market. Plus PCGamer/Gamespot/Almost every PC Magazine on the planet praises WoW for some reason, in fact I don't read PCGamer anymore because of how they talk about WoW. If you think WoW is really that good of a game then I can't take any of your opinions seriously anymore. Simply put...Blizzard made things happen...SOE did not....Blizzard's product appeals to either immature people/children/console gamers....SOE's product applies to the more mature crowd... Obviously the combination of a smaller audience + terrible marketing stunted EQ2's population. But truth be told this is the MOST POLISHED, and BIGGEST PvE MMO around.

[Maroger]

<cite>Laiina wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SignumX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its probably less popular then eq1 atm and will only get worse. Don't get me wrong i like the game alot but it will die before eq1 does.</blockquote><p> That is probably why subscribtion numbers are up 40% for EQ2 vs last year....</p><p> We all know that dying games have big sub spikes just before the sky falls.</p></blockquote><p>Where did you hear about the 40% subscription rise for EQ2? Did SOE say something officially?</p>

[Maroger]

<cite>Carusar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This kind of goes off topic a little bit but Haphasto, you said this a few posts up...</p><p>"WoW got boring fast, there just wasn't much to do as a casual player except find people with question marks, and battlegrounds."</p><p>I guess this question applies to everyone in the thread... I'm just curious, since I'm very much a casual player too and the worry I've been having lately is that I found more to do in WoW as a casual player than I do in EQ2. Don't get me wrong - I absolutely LOVE this game and the community, so I'm not thinking of switching back - but what things do you find make it more casual-friendly than WoW, if you don't mind me asking?</p></blockquote><p>You found more to do in WoW??<img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I found WoW a pretty empty game once you hit 60. And as for taking another character, you play the same areas, do the same quests over again. After about level 20 WoW is the same no matter what race or class you choose. </p><p>I find so much more to do in EQ2 -- I can never finish all the quests in an area before I outlevel them. I could never say that in WoW. I ran out of quests in each area pretty quickly. The thing with WoW is there is no change of pace -- it is a pretty repetitive game. And the chat channels-- well you have to turn them off they are so bad.</p><p>There is more variety in EQ2 -- WoW has almost no variety in and I can't believe it took them 2 years to bring out TBC which I under is a realtively small expansion.</p><p>What do you call casual friendly? WoW was more than casual friendly -- parts of it were downright childish. But then I never played the Warcraft games and I guess if you played those WoW might have been more appealing. I played it for about 6 months and that was it. I especially didn't like the way they combined PvP with PvE content. </p>

[Carus]

Don't get me wrong, I love this game. Maybe its just the Battlegrounds that I really liked. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Randell44]

EQ 2 was a average to poor MMORPG at launch and it lost alot of people to other MMO's that launched along side it or shortly after.  It has improved but that hurt it greatly. WOW's success however is it's flavor of simpler and faster gameplay with less depth.  It appeals to people not normally interested in MMORPG's with it's faster pace and more simplistic mechanics.  It also is very casual friendly due to these things as well as a few others.  After playing a game like Dark Age of Camelot with it's wide range of classes and 2+ ways to take each class though I could never stay content with WOW's lack of class variety.  Same thing in regards to City of Heros/Villains only more so because the PVP was so well implimented in that game and "uber loot" was not an issue. However we should rejoice at WOW's success because it means we have a new generation of MMORPG gamers that will join us once they are done with that entry lvl MMORPG <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  These players will boost populations of future MMO's (for better or worse lol).  WOW also put the MMORPG genere on the map for the general public....meaning even more people and interest.   Thus WOW's success will boost the entire MMORPG genere :0.

[Tash 1]

<p>I not sure if it is better in WOW since I only played it for about 8 hours or so but some things that irritates me and make me looking for other games is... 1) the better things you get the more like a clown you look. Green arms brown legs Black chest yellow hands and golden feet's is not very cool. 2) many people including me say Evercamp for some reason.... Its just so un fun camping a mob for hours killing the PH over and over again. 3) Its really unfun to kill the end boss and get that notrade drop that non in the party can use. 4) In a PVE server its very annoying not even being able to help the guards when the other side attacks them. Some of the really nice things on the other hand is. 1) the mentoring system that is really cool and make it fun to play with others even when huge level difference. 2) Languages is really neat. 3) The great graphic and very nice customising of the toons. 4) And a lot more /Hugs Tash</p>

[Polyneikes]

<p>I really cannot understand the apocalyptic vibes on the forums - this game, as we all seem to agree, is really very good. The things that impressed me most (after moving here from a very crowded game) was</p><p>1) the absolutely fabulous community</p><p>2) the fact that every tier in this game has its own significance, not making you feel inferior to the high levels or giving you the feeling of missing out on the fun untill you are in your end-game levels</p><p>Especially the community here would suffer greatly in my opinion if the game was mass-advertised like many others. I really don't think that the bulk of average <span style="font-size: xx-small">(teenage)</span> game-hoppers should be passing through here, they aren't the target audience for this game, so why bring them? If I take a peek at the server list I see over 20 servers up and running, thats lots of possible server merges before the game runs completely dry.</p>

[liveja]

Wylder@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote><p>Timewise I've probably played EQ2 more than I have WoW, yet I still feel like there is so much I haven't seen or accomplished that I would *like* to.</p></blockquote><p>My main is level 70. The amount of stuff I haven't done with him would level another character to probably at least 50, if not higher. I'm betting if I mentored down I could rack up another 10-15 APs, just from all the nameds & quests I've never done. That's not counting the fact that I'm only 17th level in tradeskilling, that I've got a house that desperately needs more [Removed for Content], that I've got numerous collection quests to finish up, a guild to help level from 55th to 60 (no guild leveling in WoW, & no [Removed for Content] cloaks either!) & so on. I've got a boatload of things to keep me occupied until the next expac.</p><p>I couldn't say that about either of my level 60 WoW characters. The only thing I could say about them is that there were a couple of raid zones I've never seen & couldn't care less about, & from there, it's on to faction grinding. JOY! </p>

[Haphasto]

<cite>Carusar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This kind of goes off topic a little bit but Haphasto, you said this a few posts up...</p><p>"WoW got boring fast, there just wasn't much to do as a casual player except find people with question marks, and battlegrounds."</p><p>I guess this question applies to everyone in the thread... I'm just curious, since I'm very much a casual player too and the worry I've been having lately is that I found more to do in WoW as a casual player than I do in EQ2. Don't get me wrong - I absolutely LOVE this game and the community, so I'm not thinking of switching back - but what things do you find make it more casual-friendly than WoW, if you don't mind me asking?</p></blockquote> I didn't necessarily mean that EQ2 was more casual friendly than WoW.  I think WoW  is much more casual friendly.  I was saying though, as a casual player I still found much more to do in EQ2 than I did in WoW.  Sure alot of things are the same, you still have your run of the mill quests, like kill 15 orcs, or deliver this letter to South Qeynos.  But the things that EQ2 offers besides that is much greater than WoW can offer. Collection quests, learning languages, legend and lore.  EQ2 offers quests such as heritage quests that actually mean something and feel sort of epic.  The tradeskill system in EQ2 is so more complex and fun than it is in WoW, atleast I can actually see my character creating something with tools and a work bench instead of seeing him rub his hands together to craft an item.  You are able to get involved with your guild about 10x easier being able to earn status and actually help the guild progress.  Yes there is raiding in WoW, but EQ2 also has that.  I can't really comment too much on the raiding as I've never raided on either game.  Player housing is great, and is something to do when you don't feel like killing or making items.  Zones are 100x more interesting to see in Everquest2.  You actually feel enthralled sometimes when you make it deep into a dungeon that you've never been to before.  And there are more reasons to come back to zones and dungeons than there are in WoW.  In WoW if the zone isn't in your level range then basically you have no reason to be there unless you want to pick off noobs.  Even in most instances in WoW, once you get the rare item from there you never really feel like going back. the achievement point system gives players something to do outside of leveling.  In WoW talent points are handed to you right when you level, therefore once you are max level, you have no way of really upgrading your character beyond equipment. The mentoring system is great in EQ2, and gets the lower level community more involved with the higher level community, and offers benefits for both. I could probably sit here and list at least a dozen more things that I think EQ2 does better than WoW, but I think I made my point.  In fact the only thing I think WoW does better than EQ2 is PVP, yet I still am enjoying EQ2 PVP very much.  So in conclusion, I find much more to do in EQ2 than I do in WoW as a casual player.  Does that mean EQ2 is more casual friendly?  No.  It just means that there is another MMORPG out there for the casual player besides WoW.  And in my opinion it's about 10 times better too.

[Novaseeker]

<p>The main problem that EQ2 had and has is that it started off kind of badly, and in this industry you are almost never given a second chance.  The game has improved tremendously since its launch, with many things being overhauled, others being tweaked, loads of new content added, mechanics being redesigned, etc. ... and in the meantime many people's systems have "caught up" to EQ2 (as compared to the edgy position EQ2 was in as of late 2004), so the game plays much better now.  The main issue is getting people to the game, and that's where you run into the initial launch problem again.</p><p>Most of these games sell most of their product within 60 days of launch, with the rest being incremental growth due to word of mouth, friends and the like.  There are very few exceptions to that (WoW is one, EVE Online is another), but for the most part you get most of your initial sales within the first launch and its aftermath, and after that it's only incremental growth.  That's why it's so critical to have a great launch.  Now people will say: "Hey, WoW had a crap launch, the servers were down, etc.", and that is very true, but the underlying game itself -- apart from the infrastructure problems Blizzard had at launch -- was not buggy, was accessible to people, and was, at the time, a more polished and fun product than EQ2 was.  Hence why WoW cleaned EQ2's clock in reviews, and in sales as well.  Trying to recover from that launch is what the game has been focused on doing for the past two years and, to their credit, the developers have really made the game an excellent one now.  Trouble is, most of the people who are "trying" the game now are people who are bored with other MMOs, like WoW (for good reason, really), or are Station Pass people, or are people who are waiting for one of the other 2007 MMOs like LOTRO, AoC, WAR, TCoS, etc.  So the growth you will see is incremental at best, and that's really just life.  </p>

[Klanch]

<p>Two more points.</p><p>In Wow, once you hit your max level another game starts, casual PvP. It reminds me of The Realm which was out before EverQuest. Once you played to the max level you started grouping and fighting. Sure, you can PvP on the way up but at that point, but when you max your character you hit a level playing field. Two groups of equal levels fighting it out can be a blast. That was as much fun as leveling. I think EQ2 misses out on this. The PvP is not as fun as PvP on WoW.</p><p>While the character system in WoW is much simpler it is also more stable. They are not as quick to bring out the nerf bat, and thus, they don't [Removed for Content] off as many people that invested a lot of time in a character. I remember when the pally's got hit way back. They were one of the first to feel the nerf bat in EQ2 and a lot of people got mad. In EQ2 it takes a lot more effort to max a character, and you loose a lot more when the character you leveled is no longer the same. The problem is not as drastic in WoW.</p>

[Maroger]

<cite>Klanch wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Two more points.</p><p>In Wow, once you hit your max level another game starts, casual PvP. It reminds me of The Realm which was out before EverQuest. Once you played to the max level you started grouping and fighting. Sure, you can PvP on the way up but at that point, but when you max your character you hit a level playing field. Two groups of equal levels fighting it out can be a blast. That was as much fun as leveling. I think EQ2 misses out on this. The PvP is not as fun as PvP on WoW.</p><p>While the character system in WoW is much simpler it is also more stable. They are not as quick to bring out the nerf bat, and thus, they don't [Removed for Content] off as many people that invested a lot of time in a character. I remember when the pally's got hit way back. They were one of the first to feel the nerf bat in EQ2 and a lot of people got mad. In EQ2 it takes a lot more effort to max a character, and you loose a lot more when the character you leveled is no longer the same. The problem is not as drastic in WoW.</p></blockquote>Speaking of the nerfbat in WoW -- can you say HUNTERS-- HUNTER PETS!!!!<img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[avow]

<p>i bought a few copies of eq2 when it came out. I played on a pc that could not handle it well. I was playing eq1/ff/eqoa but maxed out levels there and the games were emptying of players to group with.  Bots didn't want to play with me either  8(...     I saw wow, bought some copies, played wow till i maxed out a whooooole bunch of 60's and now 70's BECAUSE my system could easily handle WOW.  When my new system was able to handle eq2 i went back to eq2 ...to find it almost empty of players. It is almost 3 years old counting beta and that is to be expected i suppose.</p><p>I feel that the increase with soe station pass is too finally see what games players really want to play and weed out those less played and allow the new upcoming soe run/managed/produced games to pick up the slack. I played vanguard, my new pc could not handle it well and the games was...missing a lot. In a year it might be worth playing on an even newer pc but i won't wait.  I will play newer games and may have to stop playing eq2 IF i can't find enough groups to do those quest endings requiring qroups to finish them. </p><p>Enjoy eq2. LOTR's and others coming out. Enjoy both. ehhh</p><p>I really wish eq2 had come out with the same engine as eq1 or was playable on the ps2 like eqoa was. It would have brought in millions i think just like wow. oh well.   <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Randell44]

"<p>Two more points.</p><p>In Wow, once you hit your max level another game starts, casual PvP. It reminds me of The Realm which was out before EverQuest. Once you played to the max level you started grouping and fighting. Sure, you can PvP on the way up but at that point, but when you max your character you hit a level playing field. Two groups of equal levels fighting it out can be a blast. That was as much fun as leveling. I think EQ2 misses out on this. The PvP is not as fun as PvP on WoW."</p> <p>LOL EQ II and WOW are both primarily PVE games.  If your really concerned about PVP then I highly suggest either Dark Age of Camelot (with all it's flaws it's still the best PVP I have played) or Guild Wars (haven't played but heard alot of good things).</p> <p>"While the character system in WoW is much simpler it is also more stable. They are not as quick to bring out the nerf bat, and thus, they don't [Removed for Content] off as many people that invested a lot of time in a character. I remember when the pally's got hit way back. They were one of the first to feel the nerf bat in EQ2 and a lot of people got mad. In EQ2 it takes a lot more effort to max a character, and you loose a lot more when the character you leveled is no longer the same. The problem is not as drastic in WoW."</p><p>Yeah, aside fromt he talent tree all classes are the same :/.  Even then your usually "pushed" into a specific tree end game.  Rather than truly balance what issues they had WOW instead gave both sides access to the issues.  So now both sides have the exact same classes, and racial differances arn't really that big at all.</p><p>They haven't ticked anyone off no, but from what I understand many imbalances still exist and I'd rather see changes to my beloved character than have that situation stay in any MMORPG.  Most people are just too selfish to be fair on that point.</p><p>Ahh well, I'm really just killing time till Warhammer.  I'll beta test it if I can't because it's really piqued my interest and I'd love to see if it has the potential to be as good of a game as I think it does. </p>

[TheSource123]

I actually disagree with WoW bringing tons of people into the MMORPG genre, it's basically just converting console gamers into MMO players, or casual PC users into MMO players. I think Guild Wars has done the most to bring in new f00lz.     It has no sub fee, so it gets a huge younger crowd (You can tell from how immature the community is) and when they realize that GW is a complex PvP game not an easy console game like they are used to, they head over to WoW which is the most "casual friendly" MMO on the market. Why? Because they want as much reward as possible with the smallest possible skill requirement.

[Lornick]

Most of the time my eyes glaze over when I see "EQ2 is dieing" or "how popular is EQ2 vs other mmo's", etc, etc threads.  But this one has been a fairly civil discourse so far and proved an interesting read.  I agree with the majority of people here who think SOE's public relation folks need to get off their duffs.  Start kissing up or bribing the gamer magazines and websites.  Put up some commercials and posters.  The devs have busted their humps since game release.  Get the message out there that this isn't the same game that was released a few years ago.

[liveja]

<p>I do agree that SOE could do itself some serious favors by actually advertising EQ2.</p><p>What I do not agree with, is the notion that this is something of dire importance, something that we need to stay up nights worrying about, something like The End Of The World!!!!!!! et cetera. It's a video game, people. Get over it, get some perspective.</p>

[Kasar]

<cite>Randell44 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah, aside fromt he talent tree all classes are the same :/.  Even then your usually "pushed" into a specific tree end game.  Rather than truly balance what issues they had WOW instead gave both sides access to the issues.  So now both sides have the exact same classes, and racial differances arn't really that big at all.</p></blockquote> If you read the original manual and the class descriptions, you see a different class system described in EQ2.  Not that I mind playing an SK with vanguard armor and a tower shield, it just wasn't in the class descriptions when the game started.  Apparently the higher dps didn't offset the armor limitations for SK and zerker as originally intended or the kite shield limitation on crusaders, so now all the plate tanks are very similar, with the guardian the most gimped with it's one AOE and the others with multiple.  It's still the most common raid tank class with it's damage absorption abilities, but it's only really needed when the content highly outclasses the gear. Racial differences in EQ2 are pretty negligible as well, some can boost defense or another stat a few points here or there.  The halflings summoning pies though is quite unbalancing IMHO. 

[liveja]

<cite>Klanch wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In Wow, once you hit your max level another game starts, casual PvP. It reminds me of The Realm which was out before EverQuest. Once you played to the max level you started grouping and fighting. Sure, you can PvP on the way up but at that point, but when you max your character you hit a level playing field. Two groups of equal levels fighting it out can be a blast. That was as much fun as leveling. I think EQ2 misses out on this. The PvP is not as fun as PvP on WoW.</p><p><span style="color: #006600">I'd like to agree fully Klanch on this, but I can't, at all. The simple fact is that there is almost NEVER such a thing as "two groups of equal levels fighting it out", at least not in the Battlegrounds. You can get that in the new Arena system (I guess, kinda-sorta, though not guaranteed) but in the Battlegrounds, forget it. If, at 60th level, you are not a "raid-or-die" player, you will not compete in Battlegrounds -- or, for that matter, the arena -- & if you attempt to, you will get thoroughly rolled by the raid-game players.</span></p><p>While the character system in WoW is much simpler it is also more stable. They are not as quick to bring out the nerf bat, and thus, they don't [Removed for Content] off as many people that invested a lot of time in a character. I remember when the pally's got hit way back. They were one of the first to feel the nerf bat in EQ2 and a lot of people got mad. In EQ2 it takes a lot more effort to max a character, and you loose a lot more when the character you leveled is no longer the same. The problem is not as drastic in WoW.</p><p><span style="color: #006600">All I can say to THIS comment is that quite obviously, Klanch hasn't been reading the same WoW General Forum I read for the last two years. Every single one of the issues he brings up in the above paragraph has been a source of major complaints on the WoW forums, & with good reason.</span></p><p><span style="color: #006600">I'd also like to point out that EQ2's AA system is FAR superior to WoW's Talent system. I personally went from 1-60 in EQ2 without having a single AP -- because I didn't have KOS until EOF came out, so I spent 4 months last fall, playing the 50-60 game without them -- & it didn't hurt my character in the slightest. EQ2 AP points are there to give you a little extra boost, & to kinda-sorta personalize your character a little. WoW Talents, OTOH, are <b>necessary</b> to your game play, & have extreme effects on your character; they will, for example, determine your play style, & with some classes (for example, Druids) will determine what you can & cannot do. As a result, it is every bit as "cookie cutter" as some EQ2 trees are, with an added negative: in WoW, most classes have an "ideal talent spec", & if you're a member of that class, & you don't have that spec, you can forget about hi-end raiding. For example, if you are a Balance-spec'd Druid, you're hosed in the end game, especially when you discover that virtually NONE of the gear you can get will help your spec, as it's all designed to make you a better healer, & that's assuming you can even find a raid guild willing to take a Balance-spec'd Druid to begin with.</span></p></blockquote>

[SteelPiston]

<p>I was in several game stores yesterday in St. Catharines - Ontario. Not one single copy of EoF to be seen anywhere. One store had a KoS. A few had the old and expensive EQ2 Collectors edition in the metal box, but overall a very poor display of of marketing and product availabilty. Needless to say that WoW games were in vast numbers at all the stores visited.</p><p>Who is responsible for selling this product? They need to be fired for such poor marketing and distribution. Beside each game costing $30+, SOE are losing about $180 a year in subscriptions from each game they could have sold. All the hard work and wonderful expansions are going to waste due to public apathy unless there is an unknown agenda here. </p><p>Conspiracy Theory:- IS the game going onto the PS3 and they don't want so sell the pc games anymore?</p>

[Jai1]

<p>I sometimes wonder if the negative people are just negative about the game or generally negative in life and that bleeds over into perceptions of everything.   I think the quality of the game and the attraction of it to others is highly subjective.   You just can't say whether or not one is better or worse than any other game and you surely can't say that that WoW is better due to the 8 million or so decalared subcribers because there no accounting for the general public's taste in anything.</p><p>I have gotten comments for WoW fans when they find out I play Sony games that are right along the lines of the OP's comments.  They are really wondering how SoE is struggling and how on earth they can compete with the behemoth that is Worlds of Warcraft.  I'm not really sure in SoE eyes, as a company, they feel like they are struggling.  The approach might be to build communities of fairly amicable players, along with quality games, so that the MMO's they have are more appealing.  If you could play WoW for more than 4 months with all the people 5+ levels higher trying to duel you, or put up with the idea of player's "need "being able to sell the item, not use, for almost nothing or any of the other frustrations I had with that community, your skin is more hardened than mine.  </p><p>I'm having a hard time with the Vanguard community atm because they are suppose to be these elite skilled players who want challenge but have no idea how to work with a chanter.  Personally, I think most are comming from WoW where croud control is non existed and shamans and just about all other classes MT.  I played a priest, agro control was not prevailent when I played.  I would imagine people are getting more skillful with time.</p><p>I would have to say a large majority of people are new to the scene who play WoW.  It's becoming more of an 'IN' game to play.  I mean everyone's doing it.  I personally though the game was too basic and not all that exciting.  I have a desktop and a laptop for which I have been playing MxO, EQ2, and Vanguard on.  WoW doesn't appeal to be because I can get better 'eye candy' with those games mentioned.</p><p>As far as SoE struggling and not doing any marketing...  maybe they have an 'if you build it... they will come" approach.  They have a number of games in development and I have always liked the quality of their stuff.  Maybe it's subjective as far as my tastes go, but EQ2 is not dying and Station Access will probably become more and more appealling to people.  </p><p>Remember SoE is really somehow a part of Sony and have a myriad of different products and services availible.  Big money backing so making great games might be more important than making lots of money.   If they are like my company, we look to make a great product and provide a good life for our employees.  That may not make sense to some but it could be a possiblity.  Anyways, if you have a hard time getting any of the titles, try Amazon.com.  Game stores aren't neccessily big on PC Game inventories and Amazon delivers quick. </p>

[Espyderman]

<cite>Nick4591 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just purchased this game and started playing a day ago. With World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and the new LOTR RPG coming out, what does the future of EQ2 look like? Is the EQ2 population already dwindling due to the insane popularity of WoW? At my local super market, there's an entire two shelves in the computer game section dedicated to WoW game cards (Anywhere from 50-100 cards availible at any given time for purchase), and there are only about six SoE game cards availible. It would be a shame if the population got to a point where the content of this game is weakened by a lack of players. I'm worried that in the future it may be difficult, or near impossible, for me to find groups for raids and other high level content. What do you think will happen in the future?</blockquote><p> EQ2 may not be the most popular, or most played but it is by far the best for longevity, and positive changes. I can honestly say that this game has improved on itself 10 fold since launch day and i am excited to hear about new expansions. I can tell ya that the future success of this MMO lies in what kind of expansion is released after the last one. its a vicious circle but one we have stuck with for nearly 3 years.</p><p>As for WoW, ive seen many people migrate from there to EQ2, as well as Vanguard players. LOTRO, if it doesnt manage to hold interest more then a month, may end up the same way, with their players going to eq2.</p><p>I can say their are definitely plenty of people to play with on the servers. With a merge it could make this game more populated then most would know what to do with. Something im sure they will be doing soon.</p>

[LordByron]

I'll keep this short. This is my favorite MMO game by far. There are so many reasons why EQ2 is a superior game. I agree with the lack of advertising contributing to a lower player-base than that of WoW. However, I don't think I've seen this mentioned yet: Even though EoF received very good reviews from the press, some people might just look at the features quickly and conclude it's not a game for them. Namely, given that our culture is predominantly homophobic and often associates "fairies" with homosexuality, do you think that having the new race be fairies was appealing to a lot of people? I personally think the Fae are very well designed, and so have the reviewers. Sometimes it's not until you play them that you realize how sweet they really are.  I'm just wondering if having a Fae as the new race only perpetuated people's negative biases and stereotypes about EQ2.

[Randell44]

"I actually disagree with WoW bringing tons of people into the MMORPG genre, it's basically just converting console gamers into MMO players, or casual PC users into MMO players. I think Guild Wars has done the most to bring in new f00lz.     It has no sub fee, so it gets a huge younger crowd (You can tell from how immature the community is) and when they realize that GW is a complex PvP game not an easy console game like they are used to, they head over to WoW which is the most "casual friendly" MMO on the market. Why? Because they want as much reward as possible with the smallest possible skill requirement." For every 5 people with no patience for a more complex game there is 1 person that find a new genere they haven't explored before that they like.  WOW has a massive list of subscribers for it's easy going nature.  Do the math. " If you read the original manual and the class descriptions, you see a different class system described in EQ2.  Not that I mind playing an SK with vanguard armor and a tower shield, it just wasn't in the class descriptions when the game started.  Apparently the higher dps didn't offset the armor limitations for SK and zerker as originally intended or the kite shield limitation on crusaders, so now all the plate tanks are very similar, with the guardian the most gimped with it's one AOE and the others with multiple.  It's still the most common raid tank class with it's damage absorption abilities, but it's only really needed when the content highly outclasses the gear." Ya but it's still much better than the Warrior vs Warrior choice of WOW.  Guardian is more strait up defense, SK has spells and lifedraining.  Haven't fiddled with zerker too much yet.  I know that achivements definitely differientiate them all though, especially with EOF. " Racial differences in EQ2 are pretty negligible as well, some can boost defense or another stat a few points here or there.  The halflings summoning pies though is quite unbalancing IMHO.  " Ya I don't like the fact racial differances are mainly looks for most every MMORPG out there.  It should matter much much more. "However, I don't think I've seen this mentioned yet: Even though EoF received very good reviews from the press, some people might just look at the features quickly and conclude it's not a game for them. Namely, given that our culture is predominantly homophobic and often associates "fairies" with homosexuality, do you think that having the new race be fairies was appealing to a lot of people? I personally think the Fae are very well designed, and so have the reviewers. Sometimes it's not until you play them that you realize how sweet they really are.  I'm just wondering if having a Fae as the new race only perpetuated people's negative biases and stereotypes about EQ2." Ya this game really needs naked dancing elves........um wait no.  But apparently thats one of the draws of WOW.  Sad sad sad people.  Saw a video where there is even a naked mod for WOW to make people wearing nothing  REALLY wear nothing.  As i said sad sad sad people.

[Espyderman]

<p>Anyone i know who didnt like EQ2 failed to explain to me why. I always contributed them not playing to not being able to play, and in turn they get upset and flame in forums or something.</p><p>EQ2 is a very good game, not perfect but definitely very good. Its just meant for mature gamers is all, and there arent that many of them.</p>

[Fing]

<cite>Araxes wrote:</cite><blockquote>However, don't expect to find groups falling from the sky. </blockquote><p>QFT, I have a 15 Ranger on an RP server.  I can adventure all day long without seeing a soul.  I've been told that this will change when I hit level 70.</p><p> I think lack of PvP on demand is responsible for the low population.  On WoW PvE servers, you can PvP anytime you want, and even on PvE servers there are epic battles in the Hillsbrad Foothills between South Shore and Tarren Mills.</p><p>I really can't think of any other reason for the low pop other than that, EQ2 is a good game.</p><p>And I'll probably return to WoW at some point, just for the PvP on demand.</p><p>And it's a lot easier to find groups in WoW.</p>

[Notso]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What I do not agree with, is the notion that this is something of dire importance, something that we need to stay up nights worrying about, something like The End Of The World!!!!!!! et cetera. It's a video game, people. Get over it, get some perspective.</p></blockquote> Well duh! This is a game forum. Do you think we are going to be discussing the need to be in Iraq? Prople invest a lot of time in a character. It is only natural to worry then their friends drop out and their once strong guild is left with 2 or 3 active members. By the way, that perspective you were talking about, you might consider getting some so that you don't HAVE to shoot down everyone that has a different opinion about this "game". It's a video game. Get over it. Let them voice an opinion even if it is different than yours. You will be okay. Your heart will not burst just because they expressed a different view. <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[liveja]

<cite>Notso wrote:</cite><blockquote>By the way, that perspective you were talking about, you might consider getting some so that you don't HAVE to shoot down everyone that has a different opinion about this "game" </blockquote><p>It was nice of you to miss the point entirely, since I'm not knocking people for merely having a different opinion. I'm knocking them for having an extreme opinion.</p><p>Learn the difference, please, k, thanx, bye.</p>

[davdman75]

<p>     i would have to say eq2 is best game out there. ive tried em all. swg was my first mmo. Was there 3.5 years til they brought the nge, totally ruined the game. now its a wannabe fps. any how, tried wow, couldnt hold my interest. dont know why. it appears to bea solid game and lots of fun, but to me there was no social interaction. seemed to me like quest, quest, quest. very hard to get into a dungeon and grind away like i like to. i dont really care to quest unless im in a group and we are all on same quest. i like to bs while i kill and quest.</p><p>  cov/coh was pretty cool at first, but i some how lost interest.  </p><p>gw- that game, imo comes in  second place. looks great and very nicely done and best part is its free.</p><p>Now being [Removed for Content] off at soe for the nge in swg, i was just goofin off waiting for vanguard. heard many good things about the features and what not. </p><p>So one day im in my local fry's here in vegas, and im totally frustrated about how crappy swg is and how theres no challenge and vanguard is still months away, so i see eq2 sittin on the shelf, im thinking i wonder how soe treats eq2. im figuring they have gotten screwed over like swg people have. I say to myself "eh, if it stinks, no big deal, i just wont pay the monthly sub fee and at least i tried it."</p><p>i log in the first day with just the basic game, i didnt buy dof i bought the one with kos attached to it.  first day it didnt do anything for me, i was still accustomed to the way swg plays. i dont log in for like 3 days. 4th day i give a last shot sayin if somnething doesnt happen to peak my interest im gone.  Wow was i in for a surprise, some dude kinda showed me the ropes, we hit instances for my low level  showed me how to do stuff, i looted decnt stuff  and at that point i fell in love. he then told me there was content beyond my wildest dreams. in swg theres no content. here in eq2, i was like a kid in a candy store. so much to do and not enough hours in the day to experience it all. i still havnt been to some places yet (main is lvl 70 and atm has 97 aa) im still in awe how this game surprises me to this day. </p><p>believe me when i say it, this game is the best mmo out there and it surprises me how its not nearly as popular as wow. eq2 runs cirlces around wow as far as community and maturity level.  Soe should push this game more.</p>

[Kenrod]

I agree about SoE not advertising this game at all, along with the availability of retail copies. I was in Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Circuit City and GameStop in the last two days. Between all of those stores, Best Buy had ONE copy of EoF and two copies of KoS. The others had nothing EQII related. But each one had at least 4 entire shelves dedicated to WoW and it's expansion. If this game were advertised as widely as WoW, it would blow it out of the water in no-time flat.

[Randell44]

<p>"k, thanx, bye."</p><p>Every time I see this phrase i die a lil more inside and question the maturity of who posted it.</p>

[Klanch]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote>... I'm not knocking people for merely having a different opinion. I'm knocking them for having an extreme opinion. ...</blockquote><p>No. You are knocking people for having a different opinion. That fact that any opinion other than your own seems extreem is an issue you may want to deal with some day. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> livejazz wrote: </p><blockquote>... k, thanx, bye.</blockquote>You keep saying that but you never go away. It makes me wonder if you ever play the game anymore?

[liveja]

Klanch wrote: <blockquote><p>That fact that any opinion other than your own seems extreem is an issue you may want to deal with some day.</p><p><span style="color: #006600">Reading is fundamental, please learn to experience the joy.</span></p><p><span style="color: #006600">Here's a hint, tho: does the name "Chicken Little" mean anything to you? Does the story about the boy who cried wolf mean anything to you? If not, revisit faerie tales, they have interesting life lessons.</span></p><p> livejazz wrote: </p><blockquote>... k, thanx, bye.</blockquote><p>You keep saying that but you never go away. It makes me wonder if you ever play the game anymore?</p><p><span style="color: #006600">I play every day. I love EQ2. I get the strong impression you don't, which makes me wonder why you even post here any more.</span></p><p><span style="color: #006600">& in fact, I've only used the expression "k, thanx, bye" in ONE post on this forum, & I used it for ONE specific person, so why you see fit to claim that I "keep saying that" is beyond me. Sorry, pal, sarcasm only works when there's a measure of truth to it. You failed. </span></p></blockquote>

[Klanch]

<p>I immediately regretted making that post for fear of coming across as a whinny know-it-all brat that really does not know anything. Thanks for bailing me out lifejazz. I don't have to worry about that now. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[liveja]

Klanch wrote: <blockquote><p>Thanks for bailing me out lifejazz.</p></blockquote><p>My pleasure.</p>

[Macross_JR]

Well, this thread has been a great read.  Lots of different opinions, lots of great points.  Personally my favorite MMO got destroyed.  SW:G was by far the best MMO until Sony decided to not do anything with it.  Then new Dev's came in and changed the game completely.  There was so much to do in that game it was insane.  So much potential thrown away for the people who wanted to PVP more then anything.  That game was about PVP but the Dev's never implemented it right. Enough about that game.  EQ2 has been my second best MMO I have played(behind SW:G before the NGE).  There is a lot to do, so much to do that you don't have enough time to do it all.  I have been playing this game since release and I still have not done an Expansion Epic Quest.  Not that I don't want to, but I find other things to do.  This game has a great balance of casual and hard core.  Group Instances/Raid Zones for the casual(granted some raid zones are for the more hard core) and Contested Raid Mobs for the hard core gamers. Now I have never played WoW, never wanted to.  It doesn't fit my style for a MMO.  I prefer Realistic over the Cartoonish graphics that is WoW.  Granted WoW can play on more computers then EQ2, but I find the graphics more appealing in EQ2.  I won't comment on WoW more because I have not played it. Now as far as PvP.  I do not like PvP in a MMO.  The reason is is because I feel classes in an MMO should not be balanced.  Each class should have it's ups and downs.  If you balance the classes you water down the diversity of each class and make them boring to play.  I mean why play a class that can do one thing really well, when you can play another class that doesn't do it quite as well but adds more to the group?  There is no reason.  What I have found is that people like the base classes that are pretty specialized because they are suppose to be the best.  But then Sony had to give people reasons to take other classes so they gave them other abilities. The only real gripe i have with EQ2 is the arch-type class system.  They tied their shoe's together with it.  Made it so they couldn't diversify too much, because the arch-types are suppose to do the same there, but different.  Sony had the class system right with EQ1 and should have kept that. But like I said, this is my favorite MMO at the moment and enjoy it a great deal.

[Brigh]

<p>A recent issue of PC Gamer with the CD included EQ2 demo on it.</p>

[Kenrod]

<cite>Brigh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A recent issue of PC Gamer with the CD included EQ2 demo on it.</p></blockquote>That's a step in the right direction!

[Cuz]

<cite>Espyderman wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Anyone i know who didnt like EQ2 failed to explain to me why. I always contributed them not playing to not being able to play, and in turn they get upset and flame in forums or something.</p><p>EQ2 is a very good game, not perfect but definitely very good. Its just meant for mature gamers is all, and there arent that many of them.</p></blockquote> Funny, at work when I mention I play EQ2 my coworkers (who mostly play WoW) ask me how I deal with the snobs. I tell them it's like the immature players, you learn to tune them out.

[Cuz]

<cite>Randell44 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>"k, thanx, bye."</p><p>Every time I see this phrase i die a lil more inside and question the maturity of who posted it.</p></blockquote> My favorite stupid thing to read in posts is "nuff said". Stan Lee was cool to say it. Not anyone else.

[Rahatmattata]

<blockquote>I have a 15 Ranger on an RP server.  I can adventure all day long without seeing a soul.  I've been told that this will change when I hit level 70. <p> I think lack of PvP on demand is responsible for the low population.  On WoW PvE servers, you can PvP anytime you want, and even on PvE servers there are epic battles in the Hillsbrad Foothills between South Shore and Tarren Mills.</p><p>I really can't think of any other reason for the low pop other than that, EQ2 is a good game.</p><p>And I'll probably return to WoW at some point, just for the PvP on demand.</p><p>And it's a lot easier to find groups in WoW.</p></blockquote><p>EQ2 has pvp... it's called the arena. It needs a revamp and should use the pvp server ruleset IMO, and could use some love in general. I don't even think most new players even realize it exists because rarely anyone uses it except for the occasional rare guild run. I didn't play Warcraft passed level 6 or 7 and even then I only played cuz I had a buddy key and I couldn't resubscribe to EQ2 for a few days cuz I didn't have 15 bucks... so I can't compare the battlegrounds to the arena.</p><p>However if you really want pvp on demand in EQ2 play on a pvp server <img src="/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You can fight just about anyone within your level range just about anywhere just about any time. Some areas are even without pvp level restrictions and there is even a free for all faction.</p><p> 'nuff said </p>

[liveja]

<cite>Fingis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>even on PvE servers there are epic battles in the Hillsbrad Foothills between South Shore and Tarren Mills.</p></blockquote>Unless those have re-started since last August -- & I can't imagine why they would have -- those SS/TM battles haven't been seen on a PvE server since the Battlegrounds opened in April '05. There's simply no point to them: you don't get anything from them, & they lag the heck out of the area. Besides, there were just too many instances of every quest-giving NPC in the area getting slaughtered, leaving lower level players no way to complete or start quests, interrupting their game play, & so on.

[Zandior]

I hope this game sticks around for a long time.  Long time EQLive player, as well as about a year invested in WoW.  Minor time devoted to Guild Wars (if only the RP/PvE side had a higher lvl cap...), Dungeons & Dragons Online, etc. etc.As EQLive was my main game when EQ2 was announced, I scoffed, disliking the way the game was described, the models, the idea that SOE was producing a game that *may* take players from EQLive, so on.  A couple years later, no longer in love w/ EQLive & consistently unimpressed w/ other games on the market, I once again looked @ EQ2.& man, am I glad=)  SO MUCH! had changed in that time, it seems like an entirely different game from release.  Now, like I once 'promoted' EQLive, I promote EQ2, frowning @ my WoW-playing friends, sending the Trial link to their inbox every month or so.  I hear a lot of "Well, I played it @ release...", which is then brushed aside as I say, "But have you tried it NOW?"  Some friends have signed up & are very impressed.  Well done=)I'm extremely excited to hear about the next expansion, & if their aiming for anything like EoF (in terms of places, races, you know a real expansion), then I highly doubt I'll be disappointed.Side note, why can I not figure out how to make paragraphs :/

[Pain Divine]

<p>EQ2 is a great game. That being said... the game was DESTROYED by SOE. This game could have been as popular as Wow... They made several very important mistakes.</p><ol><li>They created their own engine. As great as that sounds, it was pointless and limited the performance of the game on a lot of peoples computers. If they had simply used the Unreal engine they would have had a clear way to upgrade the engine. Instead we are stuck with a resource intensive system hog that doesnt even look as good as a lot of games that have lower system requirements. It would have made more sense to take a proven engine, use it at launch, and then upgrade it later.</li><li>They were greedy. The adventure packs were a horrible idea. Not many people I know baught them, and the people that did were disapointed. I paid $15 for Bloodlines and it was around 2 zones! The entire game was only $40 and had hundreds of zones. what a waste. The "enhaced" services (eq2players) that they try and nickel and dime you for rarely work correctly... even this far after release. Even if they did these are services that most other games give you for free.</li><li>They were again greedy with the exchange servers. I think SOE permanenty tarnished their image with those servers. People left the game in Droves. Including me. I came back out of lack of anything better to do. I'm a casual player now, and not hardcore like I was back when I quit the first time. There's no way someone serious about MMPOGs could play a game knowing some of his peers were leagaly buying their way to fabled equipment. That would be like going to the olympics for boxing and knowing the classes were " Light weight, welter weight, heavy weight and Steroid" </li><li>While we are on the subject of Hardcore/Casual play.... SOE drove hardcore players away. Yes, it is VERY important for there to be casual gameplay in a game. But the Hardcore players are what bring the casuals in. Like in the above example, Hardcores are like the heavy weight champs. Being a casual now, and wandering around seeing a T7 all decked out in Fabled is exciting. Sometimes they are nice and let you quiz them. But EVERYONE is T7 and decked out in fabled in this game. So it becomes ho-hum and ordinary. All the hardcores have moved on to Vanguard, EQ1 and gasp... dare I say it? WOW!!! </li><li>The froglok thing.... I dont even want to get into that... but omg... What were they thinking?</li></ol><p>I really thought Vanguard was going to be the savior of MMPOGs... but I was in beta, and the game got progressively worse and worse. While they did use an existing engine, they modified it to the point that it was just like a new engine. The thing chuggs along. I was using an X1900XTX and getting 10FPS. That's horrible. They removed just about everything that made vanguard interesting... Mounts aren't seperate mobs, they are buffs just like eq2. It's not seemless like they planned. There are zone lines that when you hit them you have to zone. Etc... etc.. </p>

[Maroger]

<p>I would agree that EQ2 is the best MMO out there -- but SOE does nothing to help it be more popular. Actually come to think about it the only game SOE is advertising at all is Vanguard.<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Lately I have been playing LOTRO in the open beta and I find it quite a bit like WoW. Its biggest negative and its biggest plus is Tolkien. Tolkien has limited the classes and what can be done in the way of quests etc.  for the negatives but it also brings a huge fanbase to the game who will probably try the game just because they are Tolkien fans.</p><p>I think EQ2 has a bigger game world than any other Fantasy MMO out there and you can never do all the quests available in a zone. I really like the fact that it is quest based and has done away with the grinding that was such a fixture in EQ1</p><p>I do agree that going with the archetype classes was a mistake. I think they would have been better to bring over the EQ1 classes as EQ1 had really great classes.  Unfortunately design decisions made prior to release really hurt the game coupled with heavy performance issues. It has been struggling back from the release fiasco and EoF has, I think, helped it alot. </p><p>It was too bad they nerfed crafting since right now the only game I have tried that has really good crafting is Vanguard -- but its bugs, performance and other issues have hurt the game to the point I wonder if it can ever recover.</p><p>Still I wish SOE would do more to promote this game, and market it more aggressively. </p>

[liveja]

Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><p>EQ2 is a great game. That being said... the game was DESTROYED by SOE. This game could have been as popular as Wow... They made several very important mistakes.</p><ol><li>They created their own engine. As great as that sounds, it was pointless and limited the performance of the game on a lot of peoples computers. If they had simply used the Unreal engine they would have had a clear way to upgrade the engine. Instead we are stuck with a resource intensive system hog that doesnt even look as good as a lot of games that have lower system requirements. It would have made more sense to take a proven engine, use it at launch, and then upgrade it later.</li><li>They were greedy. The adventure packs were a horrible idea. Not many people I know baught them, and the people that did were disapointed. I paid $15 for Bloodlines and it was around 2 zones! The entire game was only $40 and had hundreds of zones. what a waste. The "enhaced" services (eq2players) that they try and nickel and dime you for rarely work correctly... even this far after release. Even if they did these are services that most other games give you for free.</li><li>They were again greedy with the exchange servers. I think SOE permanenty tarnished their image with those servers. People left the game in Droves. Including me. I came back out of lack of anything better to do. I'm a casual player now, and not hardcore like I was back when I quit the first time. There's no way someone serious about MMPOGs could play a game knowing some of his peers were leagaly buying their way to fabled equipment. That would be like going to the olympics for boxing and knowing the classes were " Light weight, welter weight, heavy weight and Steroid" </li><li>While we are on the subject of Hardcore/Casual play.... SOE drove hardcore players away. Yes, it is VERY important for there to be casual gameplay in a game. But the Hardcore players are what bring the casuals in. Like in the above example, Hardcores are like the heavy weight champs. Being a casual now, and wandering around seeing a T7 all decked out in Fabled is exciting. Sometimes they are nice and let you quiz them. But EVERYONE is T7 and decked out in fabled in this game. So it becomes ho-hum and ordinary. All the hardcores have moved on to Vanguard, EQ1 and gasp... dare I say it? WOW!!! </li><li>The froglok thing.... I dont even want to get into that... but omg... What were they thinking?</li></ol></blockquote><p>1. I have a pretty low-end machine: 2.66, 1.5GB RAM, ATI 9600 vidcard, no SATA/RAID hard drive. Very average, even low average. EQ2 runs fine on my machine; it runs at least as well as does WoW, & IMHO, it looks better <b>by far</b>  than Blizzard's kiddy-toon garbage.</p><p>2. I think the adventure packs were mostly a waste, but they're entirely optional. Having said that, when did you buy Bloodlines? Last I looked, it was $4.99, not $15. Forsaken Dynasty was definitely worth what I paid for it, tho Splitpaw for me was entirely a waste of time & money. OTOH, what equivalent product does Blizzard have? O, that's right: nothing. Maybe the adventure pack idea didn't work as well as SOE had hoped, but at least they TRIED to do something a little different, & I'll give them kudos for that.</p><p>3. Um .... I'm not at all sure how the Exchange Servers "permanently tarnished" SOE's image, "hurt" the game, or had any other such nefarious effects. It's pretty simple: if you don't like the idea, don't play on them. Problem solved. It's nothing at all to complain about, as it doesn't affect you in the least.</p><p>4. Apparently, you think there's some sort of difference between WoW & EQ2 in this regard. Allow me to burst your bubble; there isn't. Go to any long-established WoW server; you will see tons of level 70s running around, decked out in the best raid gear available. It's going to be just as "ho-hum" as you claim EQ2 is. IOW, the grass isn't any greener over there in Azeroth.</p><p>5. If you're not even going to "get into" the whole "Froglok thing" ... why bring it up????</p>

[ZachSpastic]

Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><p>EQ2 is a great game. That being said... the game was DESTROYED by SOE. This game could have been as popular as Wow... They made several very important mistakes.</p><ol><li>They created their own engine. As great as that sounds, it was pointless and limited the performance of the game on a lot of peoples computers. If they had simply used the Unreal engine they would have had a clear way to upgrade the engine. Instead we are stuck with a resource intensive system hog that doesnt even look as good as a lot of games that have lower system requirements. It would have made more sense to take a proven engine, use it at launch, and then upgrade it later.</li><li>They were greedy. The adventure packs were a horrible idea. Not many people I know baught them, and the people that did were disapointed. I paid $15 for Bloodlines and it was around 2 zones! The entire game was only $40 and had hundreds of zones. what a waste. The "enhaced" services (eq2players) that they try and nickel and dime you for rarely work correctly... even this far after release. Even if they did these are services that most other games give you for free.</li><li>They were again greedy with the exchange servers. I think SOE permanenty tarnished their image with those servers. People left the game in Droves. Including me. I came back out of lack of anything better to do. I'm a casual player now, and not hardcore like I was back when I quit the first time. There's no way someone serious about MMPOGs could play a game knowing some of his peers were leagaly buying their way to fabled equipment. That would be like going to the olympics for boxing and knowing the classes were " Light weight, welter weight, heavy weight and Steroid" </li><li>While we are on the subject of Hardcore/Casual play.... SOE drove hardcore players away. Yes, it is VERY important for there to be casual gameplay in a game. But the Hardcore players are what bring the casuals in. Like in the above example, Hardcores are like the heavy weight champs. Being a casual now, and wandering around seeing a T7 all decked out in Fabled is exciting. Sometimes they are nice and let you quiz them. But EVERYONE is T7 and decked out in fabled in this game. So it becomes ho-hum and ordinary. All the hardcores have moved on to Vanguard, EQ1 and gasp... dare I say it? WOW!!! </li><li>The froglok thing.... I dont even want to get into that... but omg... What were they thinking?</li></ol><p>I really thought Vanguard was going to be the savior of MMPOGs... but I was in beta, and the game got progressively worse and worse. While they did use an existing engine, they modified it to the point that it was just like a new engine. The thing chuggs along. I was using an X1900XTX and getting 10FPS. That's horrible. They removed just about everything that made vanguard interesting... Mounts aren't seperate mobs, they are buffs just like eq2. It's not seemless like they planned. There are zone lines that when you hit them you have to zone. Etc... etc.. </p></blockquote><p>1. My rig is now more than 3 years old and I have no problems with the graphics set on high. (Athlon 3200+, 2GB RAM, nVidia FX 5950)</p><p>2. I haven't added the adventure packs yet, but I plan to do so.</p><p>3. Were you a hardcore stamp collector? Who cares what gear the other players have. It's what I and my guildmates have accomplished that is important to me. I don't give a rat's [Removed for Content] what you're wearing.</p><p>4. The game has been around for 30 months. There has not been a level cap increase for more than a year. Any wonder why there are so many players at the level cap with good gear?</p><p>5. I'd be okay with no froggies. </p>

[Randell44]

Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><p>EQ2 is a great game. That being said... the game was DESTROYED by SOE. This game could have been as popular as Wow... They made several very important mistakes.</p><ol><li>They created their own engine. As great as that sounds, it was pointless and limited the performance of the game on a lot of peoples computers. If they had simply used the Unreal engine they would have had a clear way to upgrade the engine. Instead we are stuck with a resource intensive system hog that doesnt even look as good as a lot of games that have lower system requirements. It would have made more sense to take a proven engine, use it at launch, and then upgrade it later.</li><li>They were greedy. The adventure packs were a horrible idea. Not many people I know baught them, and the people that did were disapointed. I paid $15 for Bloodlines and it was around 2 zones! The entire game was only $40 and had hundreds of zones. what a waste. The "enhaced" services (eq2players) that they try and nickel and dime you for rarely work correctly... even this far after release. Even if they did these are services that most other games give you for free.</li><li>They were again greedy with the exchange servers. I think SOE permanenty tarnished their image with those servers. People left the game in Droves. Including me. I came back out of lack of anything better to do. I'm a casual player now, and not hardcore like I was back when I quit the first time. There's no way someone serious about MMPOGs could play a game knowing some of his peers were leagaly buying their way to fabled equipment. That would be like going to the olympics for boxing and knowing the classes were " Light weight, welter weight, heavy weight and Steroid" </li><li>While we are on the subject of Hardcore/Casual play.... SOE drove hardcore players away. Yes, it is VERY important for there to be casual gameplay in a game. But the Hardcore players are what bring the casuals in. Like in the above example, Hardcores are like the heavy weight champs. Being a casual now, and wandering around seeing a T7 all decked out in Fabled is exciting. Sometimes they are nice and let you quiz them. But EVERYONE is T7 and decked out in fabled in this game. So it becomes ho-hum and ordinary. All the hardcores have moved on to Vanguard, EQ1 and gasp... dare I say it? WOW!!! </li><li>The froglok thing.... I dont even want to get into that... but omg... What were they thinking?</li></ol><p>I really thought Vanguard was going to be the savior of MMPOGs... but I was in beta, and the game got progressively worse and worse. While they did use an existing engine, they modified it to the point that it was just like a new engine. The thing chuggs along. I was using an X1900XTX and getting 10FPS. That's horrible. They removed just about everything that made vanguard interesting... Mounts aren't seperate mobs, they are buffs just like eq2. It's not seemless like they planned. There are zone lines that when you hit them you have to zone. Etc... etc.. </p></blockquote> 1.  I don't think the engine is as friendly as it could have been at release, but it looks very very good and will likely scale far better with your system than a game like WOW.   It also accomodates lower end systems.  They made alot of tweaks after release to ensure this. 2.  Adventure packs were pretty pointless yeah.  They released things for $$$ a game like City of Heros just gave you for free.  Course COH also gave you new classes/specs for free too as well as a buncha other cool stuff....basically 1 1/2-2 free expansions worth so far.    I think Every MMO should follow the example of COH.  IF not though give us exppansions that are worth a crap.  Retail or downloadable either one. 3.  Quite the opposite I think those servers are a good idea.  The more morons buying things on those servers.....the less morons buying things on MY server.  So hurray for SOE on that note.  After all you CAN'T stop things from being bought/sold.  The next best thing is to try and filter it away from the normal gamers. 4.  This game isn't near as hardcore no.  It's not Everquest 1, get over it.   HOWEVER this isn't the fault of the gear being had by everyone at high lvl.  It's a combination of many different things and your particular focused point doesn't even apply to the situation your talking about very well or at all. 5.  Froglocks are fine.  It's a lil corny they made people living in a swamp speak like olde knights, and i think that should have been changed.  Otherwise they are quite fine. As for Vanguard, hate to say I saw that one coming.  Even if they did everything they said they would the game woulda never gotton anywhere near as popular as EQ II.   MMORPG's have changed and so has the population supporting it.  You'd have enough hardcore folks to keep the game alive NP....but it would never be Ultra popular or anything. Also I hate to say it but I'm glad a tear is brought to the eye of every person who said "Vanguard is gonna kill this game.".  In all 3 MMORPG I played during development of that game.  Though I still have to strangle a friend that swears Age of Conan will kill them all lol.

[bleap]

<p><span style="color: #0000ff">If EQ2 is such a wonderful game...(playing devil's advocate here, I play both EQ2 and WoW) Why does SOE have such a low market share, especially in a game who's predosessor was a HUGE hit? Everyone in teh MMO world knows about EQ1....and even though SOE doesn't actively market EQ2 most people know that EQ2 exists..And yet here we are 2.5 years after release and the population has stopped increasing, in fact it has decreased nearly 40% since it hit it peak...(I got this from an online gamers site not to be named, but it's pretty evident that the population has dropped off a great deal)</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">I know WoW counts it's subscribers in the millions..and I know there is rumor that they are merging servers..(Even though one of their devs posted on their official boards that the rumor was untrue) And according to most people here WoW sucks nuts...SO then why is it that way many more people play WoW than EQ2? Sure it's a bit easier, will play on just about any PC and the graphics are more cartoonish than EQ2's cartoons but can that many people be willing to play a game that sucks? </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"> Saying that any game is "The Best MMO" is just pure opinion...but WoW has to have a certain draw beyond that of which it shares with EQ2..If it didn't why would people continue to play it? They could come play EQ2 or Vanguard, or a number of other MMOs that are on the market...</span></p>

[liveja]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #0000ff">SO then why is it that way many more people play WoW than EQ2?</span></p></blockquote><p>More people like Britney Spears than do Miles Davis. But nobody that actually knows music would claim that Britney Spears is even remotely as talented as Miles Davis.</p><p>Some people want their entertainment simple, non-challenging, & not too deep. WoW caters to those people. Other people want their entertainment to have a little more depth, & EQ2 caters to them. I think the former group -- those that want things easy -- are by far the more numerous. But that doesn't mean SOE needs to change its game to cater to them.</p><p>/shrug </p>

[Ziviel]

"While we are on the subject of Hardcore/Casual play.... SOE drove hardcore players away. Yes, it is VERY important for there to be casual gameplay in a game. But the Hardcore players are what bring the casuals in." I have to laugh at this comment..., thats why vanguard "the hardcore" game has tanked so hard, its off the sales charts already... sorry but your totally grazing off in left field with that comment. IMO WoW, did a lot to hurt EQ2. EQ2 is an amazing game and every person I've shown it to who has never seen it has been blown away by it. The problem IMO is WoW acheived critical mass with...well.....the masses. It runs on almost any machine, and is easy to play... a winning combo. Plus you get a million people playing, and they talk to 8 other people and theres your 8 million players. Thats a lot of players.

[sindarin]

WoW IMO was the worse thing that could have happened to EQ2, its timing, its amazing game play and innovative design and world, really out competed EQ2 and vanguard is a joke.

[JackBurtonBTLC]

I have played pretty much every single game out there and from my experience EQ2 is the best game out there. WoW if fun, but IMO is loaded with jerks, and novice players. WoW also is an excellent game, you have to give em credit for what that team created. EQ2 is an amazing game and I agree with the poster above that when people see it they are like "hey what is this???" LOL. I also played Vanguard and well you can guess what I think of that game... I'm back playing EQ2....maybe in 6 months VG will be a different game but right now.. I think it blows...    anyway...back on subject. Whats the deal with EQ2 and population...well there are a TON of great games out there also EQ2 has bad press from SWG fiasco as well as lots of people stay with what they know and like...start playing wow...like it...you stay with it..thats your basic player out there.  I won't be playing LOTRO, can't get me to violate JRR tolkeins world..(laugh). DAOC was awesome with its RVR and battlegrounds but too many cheaters and other factors killed that game. bottom line, EQ2 rocks.. I love it...and I think its the best PVE game out there. could it improve sure..but overall its good.

[Randell44]

"WoW IMO was the worse thing that could have happened to EQ2, its timing, its amazing game play and innovative design and world, really out competed EQ2 and vanguard is a joke." It's not really innovative.  It's a mix and match of various concepts that already existed and breaks virtually no new ground whatsoever.  Saying it's a good solid MMO....if lacking in depth....is fine.  Saying it's innovative is pushing it though. City of Heros/Villains was and still is innovative.  WOW?  Nah.

[Armawk]

<cite>sindarin wrote:</cite><blockquote>WoW IMO was the worse thing that could have happened to EQ2, its timing, its amazing game play and innovative design and world, really out competed EQ2 and vanguard is a joke. </blockquote> Design, Innovative? Tell me you dont mean the visual design, which is simply a clone of what Games Workshop did starting in the mid 1980s, and Blizzard took for the original Warcraft games and have developed almost in parallel with the Warhammer world. To the extent that wow fans think Warhammer online is ripping off blizzard, which is downright funny.

[FahlenCryptwalk]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #0000ff">SO then why is it that way many more people play WoW than EQ2?</span></p></blockquote><p>More people like Britney Spears than do Miles Davis. But nobody that actually knows music would claim that Britney Spears is even remotely as talented as Miles Davis.</p><p>Some people want their entertainment simple, non-challenging, & not too deep. WoW caters to those people. Other people want their entertainment to have a little more depth, & EQ2 caters to them. I think the former group -- those that want things easy -- are by far the more numerous. But that doesn't mean SOE needs to change its game to cater to them.</p><p>/shrug </p></blockquote> Amen! I know a heck of a lot more people capable of playing Checkers than Chess, but in no way shape or form would I suggest that we dumb down the rules of Chess so more people would play. Not every game is going to appeal to the majority of people, that doesn't make it a bad game..

[Naubeta]

"If they had simply used the Unreal engine" Vanguard uses the unreal engine and it manages to both look inferior to EQ2 and have worse performance.

[Vonotar]

<cite>Araxes wrote:</cite><blockquote>However, don't expect to find groups falling from the sky.  Some nights there are none to be had.  It's a fact.  Even on the most crowded servers, there are dry spells.  This is due mostly to the fact that the population has stabilized and most of us reside at the far end of the level spectrum; comparatively speaking, the low levels are barren. </blockquote>Sorry to pick on such an early post in the thread... but this is bogus. My alts less than level 50 have no problems finding groups on a regular basis.. My 50-62 alts struggle to find groups and spend most of their time either soloing or in duo's Apparently there is a busy level 70, that nice for them, just a pity they spend all there time with other level 70's when they can group with several levels below with no noticable xp penalty.

[VizP]

This thread has been resurrected after 2 MONTHS - any particular reason? Popularity issues of the game need a new thread when during the last couple of months a number of things have happened that affect the topic (the still birth and doom of Vanguard confirmed and thus its ZERO competition, LOTR:O launch and MMO target audience determined - simple easy to pick up game, likely to come nowhere near EQ2 in depth. Launch of Neriak, new evil race, announcement of RoK AND most importantly a visible change in the MMO community with EQ2 becoming known as one of the best and far overlooked in the current stable (we are definitely getting players from the other MMOs, especially WoW which is bleeding them a lot now). Simply - new thread rather than one 60 days+ old please which contains posts that take all of this news into account in terms of this games popularity rather than an old one that is two months dated?

[FahlenCryptwalk]

hey, it's still a valid topic .. there's plenty of threads that started months ago that are still being replied to - this just happens to be one that actually had some good discussion imho. And I had this one bookmarked and didn't check the date of the last reply.. Did I miss a memo somewhere? I didn't realize threads were supposed to expire after a certain amount of time.

[Cynziel]

It's a long tradition of forum posting to generally frown on necro posts, reviving 'dead' threads. As long as threads don't get lockedby moderators after a certain period of time, I don't see what the big deal is. And to chime in, I've just come back after playing FFXI for the zillionth time, and finding it too time consuming, and I also played LOTRO, only to get bored out of my tree after a while. Not that I don't think it doesn't have potential, but they are some ways away from there yet. EQ II is just everything I'm looking for, that being: solid character creation, housing, furniture, quests and lots of them, beautiful world to discover, a story that is apparently evolving. I don't really care about PvP or raiding so no sense talking about that ^^ Also the community is A++ so far, very nice after having to turn off OCC chat in LOTRO...

[Ponos]

<p>In my opinion, the population is exactly where I want it to be.</p><p>The reasons being:</p><p>1) The chat channels are active without being so active that I can't follow the conversation.</p><p>2) The zones are populated without being crowded:</p><p>           a) No additional lag</p><p>           b) Not competing for named mobs, or even semi-rare trash mobs.</p><p>3) I can find a group with a little work, over having people constantly spamming LFG, or sending me /tells asking if I want to group.  (Get this a lot in WoW.)</p><p>4) There's not so many people that I can't *recognize* a face.  </p><p>5) A smaller community seems more intimate, constantly bumping into the same people, and I like that.</p><p>Honestly ask yourself, if EQ2 could switch places with World of Warcraft, would you want it to?</p><p>I sure wouldn't.</p>

[Salonkolya]

Seems to me from listening to OOC chat that the average age in EQ2 is higher than some games i've played. Making a game that appeals to the more mature crowd seems a pretty good long-term marketing strategy to me. Equally as good long-term as a game that is aimed at a more youthful market. If not in the short-term.

[Ba]

<p>One of the main reasons I like this game so much is because it has a much smaller playerbase than many of the others. Maybe I am anti-social but I don't enjoy competing with tons of other players for resources, space and time.  I certainly don't appreciate the ungodly amount of mostly inane chatter that fills the chat channels on games with a large number of players.</p><p>Also I have found that for most MMORPG's (and MMOG's in general) the larger the player base the more idiots/inconsiderates you will encounter on a daily basis. Plus like most adult players I despise games that attract large numbers of children -- I have no interest in playing any game alongside children regardless of their supposed maturity level.</p><p>Tried the vast majority of current MMORPG's (including WoW which I played for 12 months). EQ2 is a nice fit for me. I enjoy it. Thank you devs!</p>

[Velsha]

Zzzzzzzzz.....

[Jai1]

I'm not sure SoE put in the EQ2 business plan... A mature quality following.  That's probably more something that comes around in time.  As far as the necrosity of the post, It's always a valid point to wonder if EQ2 is going into the shithole.  I mean... WoW has 8 million and EQ2 has maybe 100k.  There's just no accounting for the publics taste.  I played WoW.  It's a mystery to me as to the attraction but I liked the game. 

[DizzyGee]

Omni@Najena wrote: <blockquote> [...] EQ2 has maybe 100k. [...] </blockquote> Not trying to be a troll or flame you, but are you able to substantiate that claim? I have yet to see the 'official' numbers... anywhere.

[Betatroll]

Naubitzi@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>"If they had simply used the Unreal engine" Vanguard uses the unreal engine and it manages to both look inferior to EQ2 and have worse performance. </blockquote><p> I dunno, I liked being able to see long distances and not having to zone (much) when travelling. On the other hand I feel that content and gameplay in EQ2 are worlds ahead of VG and with the reduction in workforce for VG I don't see that being fixed any time soon. For me one of the biggest selling points for WoW was the fact that out of the box the game played great on my middle of the line system. I had to upgrade seriously to play VG with the settings turned up high, and the same upgrades made EQ2 look great so in the long run I won anyways. At release I felt that WoW had better gameplay than EQ2 but as has been mentioned before EQ2 has gone through some big changes and I think it's made the gameplay much more enjoyable. I wasn't even tempted to try out the free WoW trial for the new expansion despite having leveled a char to max in a coule of months since release.</p><p>Now for the problem that this thread addresses I'm not sure how to lure people back in. The people I know who played it at release and quit have no interest in returning and are instead looking forward to the next new game to come out. Advertising may help, but I'm not sure it would pull in enough new subscribers to pay for the advertising which is probably why we aren't seeing any. I wouldn't mind seeing EQ2 with no expansions come out for free (download the demo, if you like it start your subscription). If they like it enough to start paying for it they might buy an expansion box that includes the game itself anyways. I know there's holes in there somewhere but I dunno what they are.</p>

[Naubeta]

I found vanguards "chunking" much worse than EQ2 zoning. At least you know when zones are going to come.

[cerialxthrilla]

i just started playing a few days ago (spent a couple years on FFXI, WoW, a month on LoTRO) and i am now kicking myself in the face for not picking this over WoW. Although Ive only been playing a few days, im pretty sure i will enjoy this much more then WoW. Not as hardcore as FFXI (10% exp loss per death, ouch) and a bit more difficult then WoW it looks like so far which is good cuz i always found WoW kind of easy for my tastes. And LoTRO forget about it, EZ mode.

[Bromir]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #0000ff">SO then why is it that way many more people play WoW than EQ2?</span></p></blockquote><p>More people like Britney Spears than do Miles Davis. But nobody that actually knows music would claim that Britney Spears is even remotely as talented as Miles Davis.</p><p>Some people want their entertainment simple, non-challenging, & not too deep. WoW caters to those people. Other people want their entertainment to have a little more depth, & EQ2 caters to them. I think the former group -- those that want things easy -- are by far the more numerous. But that doesn't mean SOE needs to change its game to cater to them.</p><p>/shrug </p></blockquote><p>Hear hear .. that nails it .. </p><p>Yours</p><p>Brorim </p>

[Bromir]

<cite>cerialxthrilla wrote:</cite><blockquote>i just started playing a few days ago (spent a couple years on FFXI, WoW, a month on LoTRO) and i am now kicking myself in the face for not picking this over WoW. Although Ive only been playing a few days, im pretty sure i will enjoy this much more then WoW. Not as hardcore as FFXI (10% exp loss per death, ouch) and a bit more difficult then WoW it looks like so far which is good cuz i always found WoW kind of easy for my tastes. And LoTRO forget about it, EZ mode. </blockquote><p> You and many others lately .. Welcome to EverQuest II M8 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>Yours</p><p>Brorim</p>

[Betatroll]

<cite>cerialxthrilla wrote:</cite><blockquote>i just started playing a few days ago (spent a couple years on FFXI, WoW, a month on LoTRO) and i am now kicking myself in the face for not picking this over WoW. </blockquote>This is not the same game as it was at release, so maybe you should be thanking yourself? Much has changed for the better. I'm kicking myself for taking time out to play VG (from beta 3 to after release hating it a little more every day). Oddly enough I think there are more people playing EQ2 now than before VG came out, but then it could be just that I'm higher level than before I tried VG. /shrug

[theplayer0670]

Naubitzi@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>WoW does so well because of it's low system requirements. It's as simple as that I think. If someone could wave a wand and magically make EQ2 run at 30fps+ on everyones pc then it would probably have taken off too. </blockquote> WoW does so well because its marketed to grandmothers and 6 year olds

[Femke]

I returned a few months ago back to EQII.  I did play it some months after the release. But my friends returned back to Lineage II and I went with them. Lineage II has sure nice graphics.... and in the beginning (beta time) Lineage II was a lot of fun. I was part of a great clan there. But I got sick of the inmature behavior of players, the PKers and the killing grind. After a close friend had to leave Lineage, I prepared my way back to Everquest II. And it was the best thing I ever did. I am having a great time here. Many nice people, active chat channels, active guilds.... and there is always something to do. Even my daughther joined me here in Everquest... And the last thing Everquest II needs in my opinion is more PvP. There are PvP servers for those who prefer that playstyle. For me my server is safe heaven from PvP. And oh, did I mention the loads of content Everquest II has compared with the other games I played? Femke.

[jikken]

i think this game never will be very popular becouse its the most expencive orpg there s available new players have it far to hard to see the nicest things in game unless u join a guild and let them do it for u. to obvious time stretching mechanismes build in to let us pay more many unlogical things and not being able to make a good pvp why does a for example a 'platemail armor' need roots in the tradeskill? why can't i kill that anoying steelkiller.... i think if u want mature players there should be much more details like the character design things like 'i wear a scarf and i see a stupid headgear' r a big turnoff for me what about the quest? run to there kill x-mobs run back... next the only good things i can say about this game r few theres a nice graphical world and theres enough classes to choose

[Ciara52]

Crystos@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Naubitzi@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>WoW does so well because of it's low system requirements. It's as simple as that I think. If someone could wave a wand and magically make EQ2 run at 30fps+ on everyones pc then it would probably have taken off too. </blockquote> WoW does so well because its marketed to grandmothers and 6 year olds</blockquote><p> oh oh!  LOL  I am a grandmother and I LOVE EQ2.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Actually my heart has nothing to do with my physical age  lol</p><p>I honestly don't care what the negative ones say.  This game is the best discovery I have ever made.</p><p>I plan on playing for a long time.  </p><p>And for the record I don't mind the fee either.  </p>

[tass]

ya Ive thought about heading to wow just to see what it was like to have that many people just around. But I just cant pay 15 bucks to play my snes dam it lol. This game is definitely good though they could of not mashed all the classes together into 1 ball of clay. That will probably be the reason I ditch when the classes are finally so screwed up it just isnt worth paying. I just wish this game has more people period. Everytime I make a new char all the servers are loading light except butcherblock and AB. I look for grms lfm, none. I look for people lfg 13 in the server. You look at the lv channel and its like theres a sniper sitting there and no one is there. Eventually soe's going to have to merge more servers together just to get life. And if youve had good luck finding grps good for you. I gotta look through the list of people in surrounding close zones and dry tell for grp invites.

[hobi]

i don't think one can go by server load any more as too use to judge how many is on a server anymore. mainly due due the three expansions and the new zones  i really think on alot of servers like others claim the population has leveled off at good levels and every one is just more spread out over theses zones  and it makes it feel empty. i bet this conversation will continue after the next expansions and the intro duction of the new super zones  even with an influx of new players. and i don't  believe ther are only two servers with a fair amount of people on them. i bet lucan delere is up there. there are lots people running around town  and getting groups is easy and both hard it just depends. like unrest, oblisk of blight,mistmore, and sanctum of the scale borne to name a few are easy to find groups it what people are doing atm  where as others like shimmering citadel , varsoons  hard to find groups for. but notice that can change  from week to week. just need a more broad range of levels is all. latly alot started recently looking for groups on lower level stuff mainly due to an up swin of lower level alts and a number of new people that i recently met. so i think the game is over all healthy.  and there are numerous healthy and active guilds on lucen  which is also a good sign