Did I miss something? Were we nerfed again?

[ZUES]

<p>OK so last night I joined some friends for a raid in Halls of Seeing. This was the first time in about 2 weeks that I played my conjurer. Normally I rarely ever parse under 1200-1500. I'm almost fully fabled and have most of my masters. I've not raided with many classes (other than scouts) that can out dps me on a raid. Last night I had the worse parse experience of my conjurer career. I parsed more in the 800-900s than anything else. I occasionally parsed upwards of 1200ish and once at 1500. I had a fury in my group and never had less than 800 INT the whole night.</p><p>I was embarrassed and turned my ACT parser on after the third fight. The third fight was a named and very long fight. I plane shifted pet and the whole nine yards. Fighting that named I parsed 800! Eight Hundred!! My first thought was mage pet was out of range. Then I noticed a templar was parsing the fights. It seemed as though every time I plane shifted my mage pet my dps got worse than the already crappy dps I was doing. My parser was a little different but almost the same each time. When I asked the templar what she was parsing she said exit dps. : /</p><p>I have no explanation for what happened. Another conjy joined us about half way thru the zone. Her and I parsed about the same for the rest of the night (crappy). I double and triple checked my gear to make sure I wasn't wearing my back up gear. I checked all my spells in hotbar to ensure I didn't have a brain fart and accidentally put some level 10 spells in there. I did everything I know of to figure out what was going on. I came up with no viable explanation as to why I was parsing like a dirge all night. (dont mean to offend)</p><p>It's not my tactics because I'm doing everything I've always done. It's not my spells or AA's because all are designed to dps raids.</p><p>Has anyone else noticed anything weird about their dps? Please tell me I'm not the only one! I'm frustrated that I'm not only behind on the parse but doing everything I've always done and with the same spells, AA's and pattern in which I've always used to cast.</p>

[Glacis]

Not sure about this myself.  Went on a raid last night and for the life of me could not figure out why my dps was running200-300 short of normal.  Granted I haven't raided for about a week, but nothing I did got me to a respectable dps for a conjie.  We were raiding clockwork menace and FTH, I have unabate, claymore rewards, disruption around 375 depending on resists, int near 700, all adept 3 or master, mage pet, etc.  My crit chance is 19% and I can't get much above 1100-1300 dps.  I have quite a few pieces of damage proc gear and am mostly fabled, so what is the problem.  Most of the time I was waiting on spell recast timers.  Any clues out there?

[Fake]

not sure. dumb question but this has happend before but is your pet the same name as u. and latly i have been relizing that when im fighting and watching parser my dps will go up like normal 1500-1700 (without troub) but then is will stedaly decrease and there will be 2 of me on the parse it would split my pets dps and my dps on parse even tho it had the same name as me. but other than the few rare acations that that has happend my dps is the same

[ZUES]

<p>My pet originally had another name when I got to raid. But right when I got there I changed it. I asked the person that was parsing if my pet (or myself) was somehow being excluded and until I opened my parser and seen it was in fact running correctly.</p><p>Heya Fake!</p>

[Supernova17]

The sky is falling!! Well your gear isn't fully fabled as you claim, unless you're wearing backup from what I see on Eq2players (Labs gear mainly along with mastercrafted and treasured).

[Raeyel]

In my experience, this only happens if there is no brigand on the raid or no troubador in my group. Either of these can lower overall dps by 2-300 and is particularly bad if neither are present. Otherwise, I have no idea, everything seems fine <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ZUES]

<cite>Supernova17 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The sky is falling!! Well your gear isn't fully fabled as you claim, unless you're wearing backup from what I see on Eq2players (Labs gear mainly along with mastercrafted and treasured).</blockquote><p>First of all junior my "labs" gear your refering to is Dracomancer and is situational gear. Second nobody asked for an opinion of a 70 conjuror thats only 42 days old and still has T5 hex dolls. When you get some more experience and learn your class then your allowed to speak in the conjy forum. Until then stay in the Newb forums!</p><p>By the way the question was not if you would look at my gear junior. As the matter of fact you dinged in here why? Did you have something to add junior or are you just trying to make your guild look bad? </p>

[Zyphe]

Got caught lying and now you insult people? Wowsers, get a life!

[ZUES]

<p>LOL /sigh</p><p>Ok I lied I'm a newb in all handcrafted gear. LOL All my spells are apprentice 2 and I've only done 15 quests.......</p><p><b>Now that's out of the way back to the topic.....</b></p><p>Has anyone else had this problem or seen anything unusual about their dps?</p>

[Aer]

My DPS was horrible last night.  I do not have the exact numbers, but it was bad for me.  However, I marked it off as I've been absent for 4 months.  I figured I don't have any adornements yet, I'm behind on AAs, and that I was a little rusty and unfamiliar with the new raid zones.  I figured once I got all those caught up and some of the new EoF gear, I'd be in a better position.  However, I was very said to see me in the 10-15 position of the parse last last night when I use to be 1-5. 

[jam3]

ive been noticing much loser parses on single target encounter mobs but not much of a difference. group make up is all i think of if two conjurors are not parsing high you have wizard warlock troub illu? my guild is nothing like a raid guild as were qeynos pvp guild but i get around 1.2-1.4k every encounter. ive raided with well played players who purely raid and get over 1.7k every encounter with correct group set ups it makes a huge difference

[Nefeticaz]

<cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Supernova17 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The sky is falling!! Well your gear isn't fully fabled as you claim, unless you're wearing backup from what I see on Eq2players (Labs gear mainly along with mastercrafted and treasured).</blockquote><p>First of all junior my "labs" gear your refering to is Dracomancer and is situational gear. Second nobody asked for an opinion of a 70 conjuror thats only 42 days old and still has T5 hex dolls. When you get some more experience and learn your class then your allowed to speak in the conjy forum. Until then stay in the Newb forums!</p><p>By the way the question was not if you would look at my gear junior. As the matter of fact you dinged in here why? Did you have something to add junior or are you just trying to make your guild look bad? </p></blockquote> LOL i love wen ppl resort to insults, def makes em look real good like

[Geoff]

haven't noticed any change.  Still doing pretty good deeps when i'm not forced to pass out those [Removed for Content] shards <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Supernova17]

<cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote> First of all junior my "labs" gear your refering to is Dracomancer and is situational gear. <span style="color: #ccff00"> Still doesn't equate to fully fabled, don't lie.</span> Second nobody asked for an opinion of a 70 conjuror thats only 42 days old <span style="color: #ffff00"> 42 days played, he's been around since April of last year as an alt until EoF came out and I switched over to him as my main. I've been playing since the beginning, I've been around the block a few times as a <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=270289106" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">raid healer from T5 to present</a>. (And because I know you're going to say it, my creation date on him is wrong due to server xfer from Oggok to Kithicor back when DoF came out.) 42 days played because I never leave him logged in an accumulate hours of time and when I do get on, I don't screw around all day, I do what needs doing and logout. </span> When you get some more experience and learn your class then your allowed to speak in the conjy forum. <span style="color: #ffff00"> I'm afraid this is a public forum and you have no say in the matter. You see a parse and your dps isn't great so you automatically think you've been nerfed and come to the forums crying about it rather than taking steps to solve your own problem.</span> <p>As the matter of fact you dinged in here why? Did you have something to add junior or are you just trying to make your guild look bad?</p><span style="color: #ffff00">I hate whiners with no basis in fact (omg I've been nerfed!!!!!) and people who lie about stuff. My guild doesn't look so bad judging by our kill list, but w/e you want to think.</span> </blockquote> Halls of Seeing The major issues you'll see there are as follows... * When using the /pet ranged command with the Mage pet, there is a chance that it will be behind a corner or other object in the way, just barely blocking line of sight. The pet will not move to get LOS and will just stand there doing nothing even while "looking" like it's engaged. Call it to you for best results. * Occasionally the Mage pet will ignore its first attack command, we don't know why, but it just does anyway. If this happens just order it to attack a few extra times. * I need not remind anyone who uses the Mage pet to be wary of the elevation you and your pet are on versus the mob. * The zone is very AE heavy, keep an eye on your pet, he might just bite the bullet. * Several of the mobs fear. Now this usually hits the tank pulling, healer with pre-heals up or some other class with an actively ticking buff up, but if you engage early your pet could potentially eat the fear and be stuck in lala land for 20 seconds or more. In general, you've mentioned range was not the problem because you and a healer were getting the same results. Are you both using DPS or EXT DPS? Late comers to the fight will get inflated dps, even if you've been nuking the entire time. What's your group setup? You'll want Aria of Acclimation from the Troubadour for the biggest benefit to your dps, Synergism from the Illusionist (cross raid if needed) helps as well. Precision of the Maestro (Troub) is good on a fight to fight basis as well, though it's usually a smaller part of your zonewide dps. DKTM (Don't kill the Messenger) from Bards in general adds 7.5% chance to crit on spells and Troub's also have spell casting haste (11-13%? can't recall the exact number) for added benefit. Brigands using their debuffs doesn't hurt either, tho it shouldn't significantly impact your dps THAT much. Where's all your proc gear too? At the very least you should add Grizzlefazzles and Bone Clasped Girdle to the Mystical Orb of the Invoker you've got. Also for a bit more work, you can grab a Necromantic Orb of the Death Reveler from the x2 in Forsaken City quite easily. It's up about every 4-6 hours, though it's drop rate is somewhat rare. A good group can easily take it out.

[Xal]

Can't tell whether or not there was a nerf, however - maybe related to your issues - i've experienced rather strange behaviour of my mage pet when raiding Court of Al'Afaz last time. It was a pickup raid, so everything took longer than usual and i got to plane shift a lot. Parsed every fight, and the funny thing is that i couldn't see any increase in my pet's dps (parsed it under its own name to be sure) when shifting. In fact, itparsed a little worse, but I'm pretty sure that's pure coincidence. I cast a scout to test, and he did actually get a dps boost when plane shifted, not a lot but enough to mention. BTW I have Master I Plane Shift, so I'm pretty sure I should notice difference on my mage pet as well. I don't think we've been nerfed here, but I do suspect a bug with the Plane Shift skill.

[starpower2]

Honestly.  I don't think we've been nerfed at all.  I'm still parseing over 2K almost every fight in a raid on single target mobs and my pet is only adept III.  More than likely you just need to figure out a better spell casting order and get proper group setup.

[hellfire]

<p>havent noticed nerf.without a troub on single target mobs in EH getting 1500 is preety easy.if everything is up 2k+ and  if PS is up 2200+.and that seems to be norm with out troub for me.</p><p>most likely mobs was in wall in HoS.</p>

[Cassend]

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>ive been noticing much loser parses on single target encounter mobs but not much of a difference. </blockquote>I'm guessing loser = lower, yet if you're seeing much lower parses and not seeing much of a difference at the same time, how does that make any sense? Sorry if I'm picking at words but it's entirely unclear as to whether or not you are seeing any difference in this post. @ the OP, one thing you have to keep in mind is that your DPS is in a way relative to the rest of the raid's DPS. That is to say, if you usually parse higher than X amount of people, however X amount of people begin performing better, your DPS will likely be second to their's. As stated previously, group setup is a major factor in your DPS. If your group setup changes or another group gets a more beneficial class, such as a coercer for melee groups, then they will be doing the damage that you're used to doing. So pretty simply, no we have not been nerfed in any way. If anything with /pet ranged the average conjuror has improved slightly. Also bear in mind HOS can be pretty buggy with uneven terrain. The trash AOEs so if you're not standing far enough away your DPS will suck.

[DobyMT]

With no Troub or Brig, you can look at about 1000-1300 being decent DPS. With a Troub and no Brig, add another 200ish-300ish DPS With a Troub and a Brig, look at close to 2k per fight. Actually, could be over 2k without much issue. This is why these forums aren't even informative anymore. Everyone just wants to come here and complain, and then when their complaints are shot down, they resort to insults. Back in the beginning, these boards were informative, now its all just crying.

[Cassend]

<cite>DobyMT wrote:</cite><blockquote>With no Troub or Brig, you can look at about 1000-1300 being decent DPS. With a Troub and no Brig, add another 200ish-300ish DPS With a Troub and a Brig, look at close to 2k per fight. Actually, could be over 2k without much issue. This is why these forums aren't even informative anymore. Everyone just wants to come here and complain, and then when their complaints are shot down, they resort to insults. Back in the beginning, these boards were informative, now its all just crying. </blockquote> Are you trying to say that having a brigand in your group makes more of a difference than a troubadour? so 1000-1300, average is 1150. Add another 250 from a troub as you claimed, so 1400. Then a brigand is supposed to bring you single handedly from 1400 to 2000, meaning a brigand is twice as effective as a troubadour in your group? Care to explain how? Aria, POTM, DKTM are easily the best things you want in your group. Followed my time compression, synergism, blessings, iceshape/icelash in no specific order. A brigand isn't even ideal in a group with you, the perfect group for a conj wouldn't have a brigand in it. 1K DPS? If you're in a group by yourself 1k is low even for low DPS guilds. I'm not trying to come off as complacent, but the stuff you posted just isn't right at all. The perfect group for a conjuror if he had no regard for anyone else in the raid would be him, a wizard, a troub, an illusionist, a templar, a 2nd troub or perhaps a fury. Did you mean a brigand in the raid period? I would think that would just be implied without having said anything...Either way even Dispatch/Rake wont give you 50% more DPS.

[Flipmode]

<cite>Cassend wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DobyMT wrote:</cite><blockquote>With no Troub or Brig, you can look at about 1000-1300 being decent DPS. With a Troub and no Brig, add another 200ish-300ish DPS With a Troub and a Brig, look at close to 2k per fight. Actually, could be over 2k without much issue. This is why these forums aren't even informative anymore. Everyone just wants to come here and complain, and then when their complaints are shot down, they resort to insults. Back in the beginning, these boards were informative, now its all just crying. </blockquote> Are you trying to say that having a brigand in your group makes more of a difference than a troubadour? so 1000-1300, average is 1150. Add another 250 from a troub as you claimed, so 1400. Then a brigand is supposed to bring you single handedly from 1400 to 2000, meaning a brigand is twice as effective as a troubadour in your group? Care to explain how? Aria, POTM, DKTM are easily the best things you want in your group. Followed my time compression, synergism, blessings, iceshape/icelash in no specific order. A brigand isn't even ideal in a group with you, the perfect group for a conj wouldn't have a brigand in it. 1K DPS? If you're in a group by yourself 1k is low even for low DPS guilds. I'm not trying to come off as complacent, but the stuff you posted just isn't right at all. The perfect group for a conjuror if he had no regard for anyone else in the raid would be him, a wizard, a troub, an illusionist, a templar, a 2nd troub or perhaps a fury. Did you mean a brigand in the raid period? I would think that would just be implied without having said anything...Either way even Dispatch/Rake wont give you 50% more DPS. </blockquote>I think he means the effectiveness of brigand debuffs.  Brigands arguably add more to a raids dps than any one class.  I dont think that fact can be denied.

[Wes]

99% sure he meant a Brig being "in the raid"....not in your group, and the Troub in your group.

[Cassend]

<cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cassend wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DobyMT wrote:</cite><blockquote>With no Troub or Brig, you can look at about 1000-1300 being decent DPS. With a Troub and no Brig, add another 200ish-300ish DPS With a Troub and a Brig, look at close to 2k per fight. Actually, could be over 2k without much issue. This is why these forums aren't even informative anymore. Everyone just wants to come here and complain, and then when their complaints are shot down, they resort to insults. Back in the beginning, these boards were informative, now its all just crying. </blockquote> Are you trying to say that having a brigand in your group makes more of a difference than a troubadour? so 1000-1300, average is 1150. Add another 250 from a troub as you claimed, so 1400. Then a brigand is supposed to bring you single handedly from 1400 to 2000, meaning a brigand is twice as effective as a troubadour in your group? Care to explain how? Aria, POTM, DKTM are easily the best things you want in your group. Followed my time compression, synergism, blessings, iceshape/icelash in no specific order. A brigand isn't even ideal in a group with you, the perfect group for a conj wouldn't have a brigand in it. 1K DPS? If you're in a group by yourself 1k is low even for low DPS guilds. I'm not trying to come off as complacent, but the stuff you posted just isn't right at all. The perfect group for a conjuror if he had no regard for anyone else in the raid would be him, a wizard, a troub, an illusionist, a templar, a 2nd troub or perhaps a fury. Did you mean a brigand in the raid period? I would think that would just be implied without having said anything...Either way even Dispatch/Rake wont give you 50% more DPS. </blockquote>I think he means the effectiveness of brigand debuffs.  Brigands arguably add more to a raids dps than any one class.  I dont think that fact can be denied. </blockquote> I agree, I just wasn't sure if that's what he meant. Nonetheless the figures without a brig are still low to be considered "decent" and I think the figures with a brigand are exaggerated based on the previous numbers he assumed.

[ZUES]

<p>Since I've posted this I have been raiding my conjurer more and more. What I'm noticing is that the plane shifted mage pet isnt doing much damage at all. At first I thought I had it out of range so I started throwing him into a 5 meter range of the mob before I attacked or plane shifted it. Same thing!</p><p>Currently my INT is 619 (with my INT gear on) and around 800ish with a fury in the group. On averege I am parsing (exit DPS) 1100ish. Were short on troubs so no help there atm. But still.....I use to parse upwards of 2k every fight. And 99.9% of the time I would out parse necros. Now they are coming out ahead on the parse and 2 of our scouts are doubling my DPS.</p><p>I have the same spells, click the SAME buttons, but the outcome is still falling substanially short of where I use to be on the parser.</p><p>I have not been raiding my conjy much the last 2 months and been using other toons but what has happened in the past 2 months to change my dps so much? </p><p>I just cant believe anyone is averaging over 2k as posted here. It's just hard to believe. Even if you had super uber gear and a troub I dont see how thats possible. Maybe zones that have group encounters versus single mobs!?! Maybe!</p><p>But all I've been doing is Deathtoll, Freethinkers, Halls of Seeing, a labs run and Inner Sanctum. Theres another conjy in guild that has been to a couple of those raids and we parsed about the same. He parsed a little higher average because of his mage pet master and mine is AD3. He also has Sol Ro and I'm between 2 deity's atm.</p><p>I dont know. I got a respec coming up soon and will try to rearranged my AA's a little bit. But for the time being my parse says my conj has somehow been nerfed. In some way, shape or form I have less dps than I did 2 months ago and with no change to my AA's, spells or strat. : (</p>

[InsertNeko]

Zeus, don't worry about everyone else's dps. To be honest I've never believed that everyone in the forums has constant 2k+ dps, it's mostly just [I cannot control my vocabulary]and bs.  I've been parsing for the last few months, just to see where my holes are, and what my pets are doing and I don't feel any of the pets have been nerfed. I've been parsing mid to upper teens consistently, but rarely 2k+. I don't mind being honest because it's not a race. I've never won a single parse in a guild raid, although on pickups I'm almost always 2/3. I may not win parses, but at the end of a raid I'm always first in zone-wide damage by 500k-1m points, so being consistent is better than random spiking damage from wiz/warlocks (who tend to die on every pull). have we been nerfed? I don't think so. Could we? yea, every other class watches us more than most for some reason and are always crying.

[Nefeticaz]

well i can actually say that i do parse at around 2k on just about eveyr single raid mob we figth with a  few exceptions, and on AE fights im sualy up round 3k. i havent noticed much change at all. i still using the same gear, same spell order. and i am always the top 1 or 2 in raids, both ZW and on most encounters. there has been no nerf, if ur not doing the same dps you were doin look at wat has changed in that time and just adapt to it, try new things. it cant hurt ur dps ne more than it is now if its as bad as u say  

[hellfire]

with a  decent raid grp set up of troub/wizzy and  being buffed  with synigizim getting  zonewide  of 2k+ in mmis/FTH is very possible.

[DobyMT]

Even without synergism I can zonewide in MMIS and FTH over 2k. Treyloth and Makonis give me some lowered DPS, but up until them with just a Troub, I'm over 2k. If I could get TC and Synergism, I'd be around 2200 ZW easy.

[Cassend]

TC doesn't make all that much of a difference because of the speed our spells refresh and cast. It's quite a waste to put it on any summoner tbh. And to the guy that said the planeshifted mage pet is no good anymore, I agree, I've been seeing very little DPS gain as of late from planeshift. It used to make a big difference but now it's no big deal.

[Supernova17]

Hitting 2k is not a problem, especially on burn fights. I looked up our parses in our parse thread and it just boggles me how people can say they don't see a Conjuror being able to hit 2k. <u>We're not an uber guild by far</u>, still working on Mayong and 2nd Floor of EH, but we do kill everything else instanced... This is what I do, and I think I could do a hell of alot better. D'Litza Viswin Allies: (03:40) 5913430 | 26879.23 [Aphe-Ball of Lava-52647] Oyce | 2341.82 (Necro) Kahna | 2313.34 (Conj) Aphe | 2205.97 (Wizard) D'Litza Cheroon Allies: (03:54) 6158469 | 26318.24 [Naeviticus-Incinerate-32964] Oyce | 2399.58 (Necro) Kahna | 2331.19 (Conj) Balerius | 2143.34 (Ranger) Zylphax Allies: (01:5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 3098164 | 26255.63 [Aphe-Ice Nova-21872] Aphe | 2345.89 (Wizard) Oyce | 2250.04 (Necro) Kahna | 2162.31 (Conj) Othysis Allies: (02:12) 3310147 | 25076.87 [Bahira-Incinerate-35445] Kahna | 2938.37 (Conj, Planeshift FTW!) Oyce | 2619.05 (Necro, Lifeburn FTW!) Panthra | 2487.27 (Assassin) Kaerukun | 2200.51 (Necro) Bahira | 1925.12 (Illusionist wee!) All Mages are always with a Troubador, the Assassin is in the MT group on Oythysis and the Ranger is with an Illusionist on all of these fights. All fights are parsed EXT DPS with a 2 second delay after fighting ends to end the parse.