Any tips on how to beat a swashbucker in a duel?

[MutantCrock1905]

Like the topic states, how is it possible with their lunge reversal, counter attack, and daring strikes? I've tried, mezzing, fearing, sprinting away to get out of their "reach range", all out DPS ( that kills me ) and trying to live through the innital burst. Well, it would help if heal wasnt borked right now actually. Regardless, any strats from you bruisers out there, on how to disable the swash in a duel?

[Zelkova]

FD and hope they fall for it. Otherwise... die with a smile <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dracois]

<p>I have not dueled many swashbucklers but one of them gave me a tip. Remove all of your + parry and + deflection gear and buffs. They have a buff that everytime their attack is deflected or parried, it does damage to you. Also I have noticed that for scout classes, increase your mitigation as much as possible. This will help absorb some of those big attacks. Last time I dueled a swashie I was in baubleshire so it was hard for me to move around and I still got him down to less than 10%. </p><p> Rapax -  Butcherblock</p><p>70 Bruiser - 70 Alchemist</p>

[Novusod]

I can't imagine beating a swashy in a fair fight. Best way to beat them is to come to the PvP sever where you can fear and FD them into mobs. They go down real fast if they have bunch of heroic ^^^ on them.

[Etchii]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't imagine beating a swashy in a fair fight. Best way to beat them is to come to the PvP sever where you can fear and FD them into mobs. They go down real fast if they have bunch of heroic ^^^ on them.</blockquote><p>Every ability up. Offence stance, lightning proc on.</p><p> /duel</p><p>5..4..3..close mind...ko combo... FIGHT!</p><p> spam through em! </p><p> u'll win.  I win against comparativly equipped swashy's this way.  u must pound the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them asap.  they'll fall.</p><p> If your're not going to get the KO by time ur arts are all going to be in their cooldown phase.. make sure to not use flaming lunge (or whatever the DoT is called, i stopped paying attention to the names after a few tiers =P)  Hit em with a mez or a fear untill you get some abilities back to finish the job.</p><p>Don't let them stun you or get behind.  [I cannot control my vocabulary] swashy's.</p><p>although they are better than pansy monks =)</p><p>edit:: i haven't dueled that many swashy's.... maybe the ones i've dueled arent too good at duels with their class.../shrug</p>

[Taldier]

<p>Biggest advantage a swash has is the element of suprise.  If your dueling on a pve server then they're at a disadvantage.  </p><p>I dont see how a bruiser would lose to a swash of equal lvl with equivalent gear.  Try using def stance for increased mit and poison resist.  Off stance works well, but then your gambling on whether you can burn them down in the first salvo of attacks.  We have mez and fear for a reason...use them while your waiting on CA's.  Most of all dont stand still and let them manuver behind you, keep moving/circling.  </p><p>Also dont sprint away from a swash...your wasting your power and turning your back to a scout in the same sentance...thats suicidal.</p>

[Zelkova]

<cite>Taldier wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Biggest advantage a swash has is the element of suprise.  If your dueling on a pve server then they're at a disadvantage.  </p><p>I dont see how a bruiser would lose to a swash of equal lvl with equivalent gear.  Try using def stance for increased mit and poison resist.  Off stance works well, but then your gambling on whether you can burn them down in the first salvo of attacks.  We have mez and fear for a reason...use them while your waiting on CA's.  Most of all dont stand still and let them manuver behind you, keep moving/circling.  </p><p>Also dont sprint away from a swash...your wasting your power and turning your back to a scout in the same sentance...thats suicidal.</p></blockquote> This is how you lose to a swash: they trigger a few short duration buffs, one which causes additional damage each time they hit, one that causes damage each time they MISS (not all misses, but close enough). This combined gives you almost zero chance of taking them down while they are active, becuase they do extreme damage to leather armor. They don't need to be stealthed or catch you off guard for any reason, they just need to walk right up and own you. It doesn't matter what stance we use because we are hurting ourselves whether they hit or miss. Close mind? Doesn't matter, they don't even need to stun you, in fact you'll die faster if you're putting up a fight. If you can get off a mez / fear at the start, you may be able to win because their buffs will have expired. Two problems with this: both these spells are nearly impossible to land in PvP, and 9 times out of 10 they are going to be resisted. And while you are trying to cast these spells you are getting your face pounded in when you COULD be at least attempting to "stunlock" them for the duration (good luck, since they nerfed our stuns this is almost impossible, too. But it's better than dying in 5 seconds while doing nothing). For comparison: a bruiser has as much a chance to beat an equally skilled swash as any mage has to beat an equally skilled bruiser. Now that doesn't mean a mage will never win, but they need extreme luck or the bruiser needs to screw up badly because when we use our skills properly we have the upper hand in every imagineable way. That's just how it is when we engage a swash, they should always win under normal circumstances.

[Splintered]

this is coming from a pvp server perspective with over 6k in kills on my different chars.. against a 70 swashy who uses en-guarde, insipriation and finess, you will die. Only chance would be to use a pumice stone to cancel those buffs, but on pve servers you guys don't have those.

[eyes007]

<p>My thoughts on this, whenever you play a rogue, drop everything that even remotely gives defense. I'm talking anything with + to parry, deflection, defense, anything that the rogue uses to increase their output. Everything must be purely offensive, the lower the mitigation, the better, avoidance, well it can't be helped but you should still have enough to do the job. If you can balance your resists so that they are high then great. The thing about rogues, they are not patient, they will open up with a can of whup-[I cannot control my vocabulary] immediately. Cast your close mind, indomitable and stone deaf (in case they have magical procs - adornments) and either a/ hit them with a few smaller CAs to test their counter attack, if it's up, wait it out, run around if you have to, make sure your heal is ready, keep testing it then go all out when its dropped, or b/ put some distance between you, open up with a teleport punch, stun them, then run in for the kill, do /a if they got their counterattack up.</p><p>Like all things duelling, the first to get in is generally the one with the advantage. If you can stun them before they get anything off its over, or at least puts you in better position.</p>

[MutantCrock1905]

Dredonvani@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote><p>My thoughts on this, whenever you play a rogue, drop everything that even remotely gives defense. I'm talking anything with + to parry, deflection, defense, anything that the rogue uses to increase their output. Everything must be purely offensive, the lower the mitigation, the better, avoidance, well it can't be helped but you should still have enough to do the job. If you can balance your resists so that they are high then great. The thing about rogues, they are not patient, they will open up with a can of whup-[I cannot control my vocabulary] immediately. Cast your close mind, indomitable and stone deaf (in case they have magical procs - adornments) and either a/ hit them with a few smaller CAs to test their counter attack, if it's up, wait it out, run around if you have to, make sure your heal is ready, keep testing it then go all out when its dropped, or b/ put some distance between you, open up with a teleport punch, stun them, then run in for the kill, do /a if they got their counterattack up.</p><p>Like all things duelling, the first to get in is generally the one with the advantage. If you can stun them before they get anything off its over, or at least puts you in better position.</p></blockquote> First off, if you are dueling a swashy, you DON'T have time to test out to see if they have engarde up. Secondly I can kill every other class but a swashy. I get my [Removed for Content] pwned in like 2 seconds. U aint gonna run either, not when they have "reach". Swashbuckler >>>>> Bruiser.. plain and simple.

[Nitrous999]

<p>As a swashy and a bruiser i thought i could answer this one for you. Yes swashys have Enguard which for every parry, block, reposite they will hit you for around 400 but this isnt the main problem. Swashys who know what they are doing will combine Perfect Finesse, Inspiration, Enguard and their bloodlines abil (the name escapes me) with this all set at the start of a duel the swashy will have almost 80% haste 90% dps increase and on every hit will inflict around 400dmg and you can add Enguard ontop of that meaning a massive short duration dps buff.</p><p> If i was playing my bruiser id watch for this and try to either fear/mezz them off the start or better still hit them with all your knock down abilities until their buffs have expired most of them last 13-30 seconds which im sure we could keep them busy for. Dont worry about them getting behind you too much as they dont do massive dmg from behind (We are no assasins lol) </p><p>Hope that helps some and of course this only applies to PvE duels i have no idea about PvP servers.</p>

[eyes007]

<cite>MutantCrock1905 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dredonvani@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote><p>My thoughts on this, whenever you play a rogue, drop everything that even remotely gives defense. I'm talking anything with + to parry, deflection, defense, anything that the rogue uses to increase their output. Everything must be purely offensive, the lower the mitigation, the better, avoidance, well it can't be helped but you should still have enough to do the job. If you can balance your resists so that they are high then great. The thing about rogues, they are not patient, they will open up with a can of whup-[I cannot control my vocabulary] immediately. Cast your close mind, indomitable and stone deaf (in case they have magical procs - adornments) and either a/ hit them with a few smaller CAs to test their counter attack, if it's up, wait it out, run around if you have to, make sure your heal is ready, keep testing it then go all out when its dropped, or b/ put some distance between you, open up with a teleport punch, stun them, then run in for the kill, do /a if they got their counterattack up.</p><p>Like all things duelling, the first to get in is generally the one with the advantage. If you can stun them before they get anything off its over, or at least puts you in better position.</p></blockquote> First off, if you are dueling a swashy, you DON'T have time to test out to see if they have engarde up. Secondly I can kill every other class but a swashy. I get my [I cannot control my vocabulary] pwned in like 2 seconds. U aint gonna run either, not when they have "reach". Swashbuckler >>>>> Bruiser.. plain and simple.</blockquote>Well I'm not sure why you have problems and I don't, all I know is 30 secs means a great more deal to a class duelling a bruiser than it does to us, at worse the bruiser and swashy is a 50/50 thing. We have enough abilities to outlast a 30 sec buff, and a heal, a great heal actually. My duels follow what Nitrous says, most classes I go all out because theres no way for them to counteract it and our heal as well. If I end up in a long fight, the advantage is still ours because we have a heal, a fear and a mezz, and immunities. Its very easy to stunlock someone or enough to get an edge, My main advice applies though, get in first.

[Novusod]

Using the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=354047" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">I WIN NO MATER WHAT stratagy discribed at lenth in this thread here</a> a swasy or a brig can kill two Bruisers at once or kill a bruiser that has a healer. So if winning is what matters to you delete your bruiser and role brig and the use the macro.

[Firam]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Using the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=354047" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">I WIN NO MATER WHAT stratagy discribed at lenth in this thread here</a> a swasy or a brig can kill two Bruisers at once or kill a bruiser that has a healer. So if winning is what matters to you delete your bruiser and role brig and the use the macro. </blockquote> No offense... but get a clue.  Please.  Before you post again.  We'll check your ID at the door.

[fxt]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Using the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=354047" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">I WIN NO MATER WHAT stratagy discribed at lenth in this thread here</a> a swasy or a brig can kill two Bruisers at once or kill a bruiser that has a healer. So if winning is what matters to you delete your bruiser and role brig and the use the macro. </blockquote> If a brig beats you with a healer tell them to stop nuking and heal.

[Odio]

<p>If you wanna beat a swashy... hang out with my  small grp. Bruiser ( gf ) SK  ( friend )</p><p>we were in SF when this  white con came to me and spammed his pet saying "some thing stupid" I hit him even though he wasn't agro ( btw im a warden ) then O no  lvl 66 Swashy went agro </p><p>GF: " w T h did you do this time?!?</p><p>Me: ME??? ^_^</p><p>then she out of no where starts to drag the swashy and beat on him the same time ( as she is taking dmg I SPAM my O $h!t  everything! and then All you read is ....</p><p>SK: ( macro )  HT is down ( Swashy's name )</p><p>you got blah blah blah faction think it was like 0/0  hehehe</p><p>SK: the lil one is getting away!</p><p>Me: [Removed for Content]! <-- in RL</p><p>O and we are in the low 50's</p><p>moral of the story is SPAM is bad</p>

[MutantCrock1905]

Mmmmmmk..

[Gokai]

take it from a bruiser on a pvp server that has beat swashies in 1v1(and lost too) M1 your mez that is your life saver right there dont use your dot ca watch for when they cast engarde and inspiration when they cast that just spam esc to stop attacking then cast your mez then just sit there and look at them till it wears off i believe inspiration is a 10sec buff so it should easily be off before mez breaks just be in offensive stance and use KO and engarde really doesnt matter the dmg is to small to make that big of a deal the real killer in inspiration if you can mez them when they cast that you win almost everytime

[Krokous]

<i>I dont see how a bruiser would lose to a swash of equal lvl with equivalent gear.     </i>Well, i see that, i had fully fabled bruiser and i never won duel with equally geared swash.. i tried to parse that and he could do in duel like 1000+ dps

[Rezzonico]

<p>I'm half Mastercrafted and legendary equiped, Jewelry all treasured lvl 70 by collections of EOF (awesomes) , 3 master 1 and most spell adept 3..... 72 achievments.</p><p> What help me is my configuration of Achievments. I fight unarmed and i use STR 4, 5, 8, 6 2 (Chi) ,  INT 4, 4, 8, 6 2 (eagle Fury) .....Bruiser tree, 23 points on knockouts, and in the future i'm going to take Retribution of stone. </p><p>So how i beat a Swashie right now?   well...it's not the equip, it's not the number of AA or what.....It's how do you play and how well do you set yourself with what you have.</p><p>I understand that many people are contrary to use Chi, but, i feel better if i use a normal and COSTANT DPS ( with some defensive ability, in fact i got parry and risposte in AA), and then, whenever i want, i can make EXPLODE that DPS. I mean: if without Chi i fight at the 70% of my strenghts instead of another one with a config better than mine, with this configuration i'll not fight at 100%, but more....really more! it's like facing 2 enemyes, don't care about bad karma, you have recast speed at 75% you reload 1 min CAs 2 times, so in 30 seconds you can be the worst nightmare to everyone</p><p>Imagine what can do a poor swashie against a bruiser that actives: Bruising spirit, Chi and Knockout combo......it's like kissing an express train....he do more dps than us, so, we must get speed, demon speed. Speed's what we need. We need greasy fast speed. Throwing CA faster and faster and gonna eating thunder and crap lightning!</p><p>PS: Lounge reversal proc only one time, so it's not a big worry. </p><p>Chi changed my way of fighting.</p>

[N3xus0n3]

<p>Ok, here's what you do to beat a swashbuckler in PVP.</p><p>1. Make sure you know what EG looks like on the swashies buffs</p><p>2. Buy a pumice stone.</p><p>3. When you see EG  go up, run away and hit the pumice stone.</p><p>4. Wait for *engarde has been removed from <insert swashie name>*</p><p>5. Smack em with your fists.</p><p>Thats all she wrote guys, just never leave home without a pumice stone and you will never die to a swashie again, sure its hard and yes you have to be good and attentive, but thats the way it works.</p><p>Pumice stones are only available from the PVP merchants in NFP, for about 2 gold and 4k status.</p>

[Harbing]

<cite>N3xus0n3 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, here's what you do to beat a swashbuckler in PVP.</p><p>1. Make sure you know what EG looks like on the swashies buffs</p><p>2. Buy a pumice stone.</p><p>3. When you see EG  go up, run away and hit the pumice stone.</p><p>4. Wait for *engarde has been removed from <insert swashie name>*</p><p>5. Smack em with your fists.</p><p>Thats all she wrote guys, just never leave home without a pumice stone and you will never die to a swashie again, sure its hard and yes you have to be good and attentive, but thats the way it works.</p><p>Pumice stones are only available from the PVP merchants in NFP, for about 2 gold and 4k status.</p></blockquote> yep thats the way unless ... they re smart and cast engarde (lvl65>0.5s cast time) first followed by inspiration (lvl70>2s cast time) in which case you ll only dispel inspiration and another lvl60 or below buff since the pumice stone will only dispel 130 lvls (65+70=135) and has a casting time of 2 secs (allmost impossible to cast the pumice stone before they finished casting those 2 buffs since the en garde is instant, pumice can also be resisted in which case you ll find yourself in a world of pain). Sry would love to give a more constructional feedback, eg. a sure way to beat them, but tbh its mostly absolutely situational and when they re in a party where a tank taunts you, they fully buff up and the swashie then taunts you in the middle of fight right onto him and maybe even has the pvp belt activated you ll suddenly miss like half of your HP before you can even hit fear or turn autoattack off ... but that goes a bit off since its not a duel situation. Oh one thing i could think of for bruisers is fear or mezz > sprint & drag him to the edge of a near cliff > eaglespin > kick .... watch him dive <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Caine Venekor

[easycheese]

okay ... first off . to beat  a swashie .. the trick is ... dont suck. second ... and realize that i respect rogues as a very difficult class to duel. You have three spells that allow to crowd control anyone, {fear, mezz, knockout combo} . these three things are the base of bruiser dueling. yes swashies have good dps.. but you cant dps if your are stunned , mezzed or feared. one last thing. if you arent using 95% of your combat arts in a duel you are cutting yourself short.

[Cocytus]

<p>Sorry to you "expert PVPers", but you don't know what you're talking about. IF you rob the element of surprise that a PVP server has, the grounds are MUCH more even.</p><p>Who wins in a bruiser/swash duel is 80% reliant on skill.</p><p>The other day, I watched a swashbuckler, pretty much the best one on my server...duel the best bruiser on my server. He got his [Removed for Content] kicked into the ground. Bruiser had ~75% health left.</p><p>Then I dueled the bruiser.</p><p>....First duel, I cheated and used stun immunity, which is BY FAR the biggest advantage a bruiser has. Won with 40% hp to spare.</p><p>...Second duel, I fought fair and used a load of strategy, no cheating...not gonna reveal my PVP secrets though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I won with only 10% health.</p><p>Yes, I used my big 4 buffs (including en garde and inspiration) in both fights.</p><p>Think what you want. In a fight where there isn't a "surprise" upperhand, it's reliant on skill.</p><p>As for tips...stuns are your friends. IMO? Open with the knockdown + kick knockdown combo, then try to get off a fear since most start with short duration buffs. Fear should pretty much get rid of inspiration. From there, just tough out en garde and beat the crud out of your target. It's doable, trust me...</p>