Illusionists...a desired class?

[Klaerth]

I've a great interest in playing an illusionist, because I happened to play an Enchanted in EQ1...however, I must admit I feel a bit of apprehension due to many horror stories and a fair bit of discouragement I've gotten. I've heard both that most parties ignore and consider mez effects useless, and that they provide little benefit in endgame...and this, of course, doesn't sound all too appealing to me. I'd want to at least be considered not useless. x.x Then again, those I've heard it from could have been misinformed or the like. Thus I'm here to ask for the information and opinion of others': How do you feel about them? As well, just out've curiosity...how common do they tend to be? (I'm new to the game, if 'tisn't obvious. =&gt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Elizabette]

Illusionist / Coercers can be a HUGE benefit to any group that utilizes them. We have the power regen and the almighty mez. I have a Coercer and when I play her I always ask the group to assist teh tank and tell them to watch the aoes. A lotof people don't know what we do. Just educate your group. Some people are stupid and will do everything in their power to see So and So awakened An Orc. I ask my tank and healers to let them tank it until they die. Just remeber educate your groups and start off being nice. Its a fun class to play!

[khufure]

Mezzing just isn't required very often in eq2.  You will go through 1-70 mezzing almost nothing in big groups.  However, in a group illusionists provide a whole lot more than just crowd control : buffs, dps, almost limitless power.  That having been said endgame instances have been appearing lately that almost require an enchanter (e.g. nizara).  But don't count on crowd control being needed. In the endgame (raids), illusionists are extremely desired and rare.  Illusionists right now can pump up big dps, almost on par with top dps classes, and additionally provide top-3 buffs in the game to other members.  Most guilds seem to like the idea of bringing 2-3 enchanters.  I know mine brings 2 illusionists quite often and a coercer.

[Zenith]

<p>Illusionists have a few different roles depending on the setting:</p><p>Crowd Control: You mez, stun, and do mild dps while keeping group power up.</p><p>DPS: Raids or non-cc needed zones. I hit 2kdps once, made me feel happy deep inside.</p><p>In both cases you carry buffs that can super charge other group members. Haste, double attack (EoF AA), time compression (EoF AA), etc. If you got for the standard build you get a group +14% heal crit as well. You can really make a group strong, ESP if you're in the raid caster group.</p><p>EDIT: On a side note, Mezzing really isn't done that much, and sadly most average eq2 players thing that's all a chanter can do. At the same time they'll break every single mez you toss out. Most of the time I don't even bother unless it's REALLY needed.</p>

[Klaerth]

Thanks a ton for your input, it does help put my fears to rest. => I'll be most definitely giving it a try!

[Zard]

And, if you can't find a group, Illusionists are great soloists.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lornick]

Loma@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Illusionist / Coercers can be a HUGE benefit to any group that utilizes them. We have the power regen and the almighty mez. <b>I have a Coercer and when I play her I always ask the group to assist teh tank and tell them to watch the aoes</b>. A lotof people don't know what we do. Just educate your group. Some people are stupid and will do everything in their power to see So and So awakened An Orc. I ask my tank and healers to let them tank it until they die. Just remeber educate your groups and start off being nice. Its a fun class to play! </blockquote><p>Not EVERY group encounter needs mezzed.  Most often you are better served by AE'ing the mobs down as opposed to mezzing.  If an encounter adds then mez away.  Or if your fighting in a particularly hard area like Nizara or MM castle then your group may want each group encounter mezzed.  But mezzing everything is just annoying and pointless.</p><p>Anyway, as to the OP's question, enchanters rock.  I have a 70 illusionist alt that I love to play and when I play my other characters I love it when an enchanter graces me with his/her presence in any group setting.  Even when mezzing isn't needed they bring plenty to the group.  I will say this though.  If the thing you enjoyed about playing an enchanter in EQ1 was charming mobs then you'll want to play a coercer as opposed to an illusionist.  In all other aspects they are quite like the EQ1 version and they can summon a doppleganger pet instead of charming. </p>

[Jesdyr]

Lornick wrote: <blockquote><p>Not EVERY group encounter needs mezzed.  Most often you are better served by AE'ing the mobs down as opposed to mezzing.  If an encounter adds then mez away. </p></blockquote> That is really it. If you have to mez (not including adds) then the group is taking on more than it should be. Use stuns/roots/stifles, but mez is best only to save you from a group wipe. Solo, mez is very important. It will let you take down even con ^^^ if you are spec'd right and grab the right pet.

[-Togar-]

<p>Players need to be educated on the Role of a Illusionist. My self and two friends have leveled from 10 - 61 (so far)  using the great skills of the Illusionist. Our three little merry men were made up of a Berserker, Templer and Illusionist. We used the mezz ability all the time. Used correctly the is a great life saver. Along with the other abilities that the Illusionist can do too. We had a Pet giving the Tank a hand in combat. The pet could pull at range without gaining more agro. The de-buffs that can be placed on a mob while the Tank hacks away.</p><p>Illusionist's are great classes if you ask me. Like most, it's about how you use them and how you let other members in your group use their abilities.</p>

[JohnDoe058]

<p>I think that people would be more inclined to have an enchanter in their groups, if so many of them didn't find the burning need to mezz EVERYTHING THAT MOVES.  I know that yall aren't like that...but the ones of that are, make the rest of you look bad.</p>

[stgninja]

<p>Mezzing inside the encouter is useless and annoying to me unless the group needs a pause to rez a healer or get some heals off.  Always hated playing one of alts that does nice ae damage and having a chanter in the group that mezzes the entire encouter every time.</p>

[RpTheHotrod]

<p>EQ1 Enchanters = Crowd Control</p><p>EQ2 Enchanters = Buffbots</p>

[Caetrel]

<cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ1 Enchanters = Crowd Control</p><p>EQ2 Enchanters = Buffbots</p></blockquote>Only bad chanters, people who play with bad chanters, or people who don't know any better would agree with this. Illusionists = killer dps and buffs in raid and group settings, better solo ability than most classes, and crowd control for the rare times it is needed.    Get 100 AAs and some proc gear and you will see 2k+ parses.  OP, it's a good class.  Check out the illusionist section here it's a great forum.

[RpTheHotrod]

<cite>Caetrel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ1 Enchanters = Crowd Control</p><p>EQ2 Enchanters = Buffbots</p></blockquote>Only bad chanters, people who play with bad chanters, or people who don't know any better would agree with this. Illusionists = killer dps and buffs in raid and group settings, better solo ability than most classes, and crowd control for the rare times it is needed.    Get 100 AAs and some proc gear and you will see 2k+ parses.  OP, it's a good class.  Check out the illusionist section here it's a great forum. </blockquote>Like I said...buffbots. If you stripped away their ability to buff, what use would they be? Other classes DPS far better. The crowd control can "sometimes" be handy.

[SageGaspar]

There are some chanters even up to 70 that advertise themselves as mezzers, which is fortunate because it saves me the trouble of inviting them to my group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The chanters that realize they're stiflers and stunners, buffers, and yes, DPS, that can also mezz when needed... they're the ones that I want in my group. The ones that waste their time locking down everything in a 30m radius, ya, they're pretty much useless.

[Caetrel]

<cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Caetrel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ1 Enchanters = Crowd Control</p><p>EQ2 Enchanters = Buffbots</p></blockquote>Only bad chanters, people who play with bad chanters, or people who don't know any better would agree with this. Illusionists = killer dps and buffs in raid and group settings, better solo ability than most classes, and crowd control for the rare times it is needed.    Get 100 AAs and some proc gear and you will see 2k+ parses.  OP, it's a good class.  Check out the illusionist section here it's a great forum. </blockquote>Like I said...buffbots. If you stripped away their ability to buff, what use would they be? Other classes DPS far better. The crowd control can "sometimes" be handy. </blockquote>I parsed 3rd last raid in FTH.   My group can do 10-12k dps with 6 people.  I can hit over 2k on named epics.  I cast over 40 spells per minute.  And I am a noob in starter raid gear who just rolled his toon a few months ago.  Buffbot implies you throw up buffs and auto follow. I can solo virtually any named heroic...the only class that could solo better is prolly Coercer lol. Buffbot just does not apply in any way....unless you are talking about a lazy schmuck who throws up some dynamisms and afks...and that could be any class. 

[Vonotar]

Bloodlich@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote><p>Mezzing inside the encouter is useless and annoying to me unless the group needs a pause to rez a healer or get some heals off.  Always hated playing one of alts that does nice ae damage and having a chanter in the group that mezzes the entire encouter every time.</p></blockquote>Agreed, if you have an encounter of three mobs and you mezz two, classes such as Warlock would be working at 1/3 strength as their encounter nukes would only hit one mob. That said, I've always been happy to welcome a Coercer or Illusionist to my groups.

[Klanch]

I've had illusioists get mad when told not to mez. Too many illusionists think that is all they are supposed to do. I play a conjurer much of the time and group with a zerker. We take down groups as a whole, not one at a time. There are ways that an illusionists can help in this style of battle if they can break out of their EQ1 mold.

[Iseabeil]

<cite>Magnamundian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bloodlich@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote><p>Mezzing inside the encouter is useless and annoying to me unless the group needs a pause to rez a healer or get some heals off.  Always hated playing one of alts that does nice ae damage and having a chanter in the group that mezzes the entire encouter every time.</p></blockquote>Agreed, if you have an encounter of three mobs and you mezz two, classes such as Warlock would be working at 1/3 strength as their encounter nukes would only hit one mob. That said, I've always been happy to welcome a Coercer or Illusionist to my groups. </blockquote><p> Not only that, as an illusionist, my own dps would suffer a lot without AE's. Enchanters arent a 'pure' dps class, but atleast illusionists can do serious dps especially in grouped encounters and mezzing unless needed is a waste of both group and individual dps, making all encounters slower then needed.</p>

[Mantell]

<p>On my server and in my guild Illusionists and Coercers are both rare commodities. Sometimes you can't raid without one or both.  It's a hard class to learn though, so I hear.</p>

[Zagats]

If you played an enchanter in EQ1, you'll have no problem whatsoever learning how an EQ2 chanter works.

[RpTheHotrod]

<cite>Caetrel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Caetrel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ1 Enchanters = Crowd Control</p><p>EQ2 Enchanters = Buffbots</p></blockquote>Only bad chanters, people who play with bad chanters, or people who don't know any better would agree with this. Illusionists = killer dps and buffs in raid and group settings, better solo ability than most classes, and crowd control for the rare times it is needed.    Get 100 AAs and some proc gear and you will see 2k+ parses.  OP, it's a good class.  Check out the illusionist section here it's a great forum. </blockquote>Like I said...buffbots. If you stripped away their ability to buff, what use would they be? Other classes DPS far better. The crowd control can "sometimes" be handy. </blockquote>I parsed 3rd last raid in FTH.   My group can do 10-12k dps with 6 people.  I can hit over 2k on named epics.  I cast over 40 spells per minute.  And I am a noob in starter raid gear who just rolled his toon a few months ago.  Buffbot implies you throw up buffs and auto follow. I can solo virtually any named heroic...the only class that could solo better is prolly Coercer lol. Buffbot just does not apply in any way....unless you are talking about a lazy schmuck who throws up some dynamisms and afks...and that could be any class.  </blockquote><p>Yeah, that's great and all. You forget one thing, my entire point. You do your DPS...that's great. However, other classes DPS far better. Why take a DPS 10 if you can find a DPS 100. So, they don't need you there for DPS. Crowd Control isn't needed much in this game, but it is handy for emergencies, so that's a nice little twirk. So, you're not there for DPS (other classes do much better), so what "are" you there for? Chanter buffs...that's why. Power regens, DPS buffs,stat buffs, and so on. The only thing you're there for other than buffing your group up is for the occasional emergency mez. Remember, even your powerful DPS output spells are actually buffs on other groupmates.  Talking chanters in general, here.</p><p>Are chanters useful? Sure they are, but it's due to their ability to buff. That's not necc. a bad thing, but the forum did ask what is the purpose of chanters. Answer? Buffbot. </p>

[Caetrel]

<cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Caetrel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Caetrel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ1 Enchanters = Crowd Control</p><p>EQ2 Enchanters = Buffbots</p></blockquote>Only bad chanters, people who play with bad chanters, or people who don't know any better would agree with this. Illusionists = killer dps and buffs in raid and group settings, better solo ability than most classes, and crowd control for the rare times it is needed.    Get 100 AAs and some proc gear and you will see 2k+ parses.  OP, it's a good class.  Check out the illusionist section here it's a great forum. </blockquote>Like I said...buffbots. If you stripped away their ability to buff, what use would they be? Other classes DPS far better. The crowd control can "sometimes" be handy. </blockquote>I parsed 3rd last raid in FTH.   My group can do 10-12k dps with 6 people.  I can hit over 2k on named epics.  I cast over 40 spells per minute.  And I am a noob in starter raid gear who just rolled his toon a few months ago.  Buffbot implies you throw up buffs and auto follow. I can solo virtually any named heroic...the only class that could solo better is prolly Coercer lol. Buffbot just does not apply in any way....unless you are talking about a lazy schmuck who throws up some dynamisms and afks...and that could be any class.  </blockquote><p>Yeah, that's great and all. You forget one thing, my entire point. You do your DPS...that's great. However, other classes DPS far better. Why take a DPS 10 if you can find a DPS 100. So, they don't need you there for DPS. Crowd Control isn't needed much in this game, but it is handy for emergencies, so that's a nice little twirk. So, you're not there for DPS (other classes do much better), so what "are" you there for? Chanter buffs...that's why. Power regens, DPS buffs,stat buffs, and so on. The only thing you're there for other than buffing your group up is for the occasional emergency mez. Remember, even your powerful DPS output spells are actually buffs on other groupmates.  Talking chanters in general, here.</p><p>Are chanters useful? Sure they are, but it's due to their ability to buff. That's not necc. a bad thing, but the forum did ask what is the purpose of chanters. Answer? Buffbot. </p></blockquote>You don't really have a point.  You are stating that enchanters exist purely to buff and that is all they are good for.  This is not true.  DPS and mitigating damage via stuns, dazes etc...are major uses of the class in raids.  Why would you use the term "bot" to describe any class?   How can you apply the term "bot" to a class that mashes more buttons per minute than any other archetype, bar none?   Just because chanter buffs are useful does not mean that buffs are their only use. 

[simpwrx02]

<cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Caetrel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Caetrel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ1 Enchanters = Crowd Control</p><p>EQ2 Enchanters = Buffbots</p></blockquote>Only bad chanters, people who play with bad chanters, or people who don't know any better would agree with this. Illusionists = killer dps and buffs in raid and group settings, better solo ability than most classes, and crowd control for the rare times it is needed.    Get 100 AAs and some proc gear and you will see 2k+ parses.  OP, it's a good class.  Check out the illusionist section here it's a great forum. </blockquote>Like I said...buffbots. If you stripped away their ability to buff, what use would they be? Other classes DPS far better. The crowd control can "sometimes" be handy. </blockquote>I parsed 3rd last raid in FTH.   My group can do 10-12k dps with 6 people.  I can hit over 2k on named epics.  I cast over 40 spells per minute.  And I am a noob in starter raid gear who just rolled his toon a few months ago.  Buffbot implies you throw up buffs and auto follow. I can solo virtually any named heroic...the only class that could solo better is prolly Coercer lol. Buffbot just does not apply in any way....unless you are talking about a lazy schmuck who throws up some dynamisms and afks...and that could be any class.  </blockquote><p>Yeah, that's great and all. You forget one thing, my entire point. You do your DPS...that's great. However, other classes DPS far better. Why take a DPS 10 if you can find a DPS 100. So, they don't need you there for DPS. Crowd Control isn't needed much in this game, but it is handy for emergencies, so that's a nice little twirk. So, you're not there for DPS (other classes do much better), so what "are" you there for? Chanter buffs...that's why. Power regens, DPS buffs,stat buffs, and so on. The only thing you're there for other than buffing your group up is for the occasional emergency mez. Remember, even your powerful DPS output spells are actually buffs on other groupmates.  Talking chanters in general, here.</p><p>Are chanters useful? Sure they are, but it's due to their ability to buff. That's not necc. a bad thing, but the forum did ask what is the purpose of chanters. Answer? Buffbot. </p></blockquote><p> If you just see illusionist as buff bots then every single on you have grouped with cant play there class as far as the dps aspect of it.  The illusionist in my guild beats out many of these "better" dps classes you speak of.  Normally the only person who can beat the illusionist is the guild's top wizzy, the illusionist beats the other wizzys, the necro, the conj, the assassin, the swashy, the brig, the warlock, pretty much the rest of the raid force.  Not a super hardcore guild, but only 2 players in guild can hit 2K dps zone wide, the top wizzy and the illusionist, plain and simple, and zone wide guild is around 18K dps.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Normally the only person who can beat the illusionist is the guild's top wizzy</blockquote><p> That may be true of raids, but my experience (70 Swashy) is that if I'm grouped with an Illusionist, I will seriously top them on the DPS chart. The only people that can keep up are Sorcerors & Predators.</p><p><3 Illusionist buffage. WTB Illusionist to super-glue to my hip, PST!</p><p>Note that I'm not saying Illusionists can't do good DPS. I'm simply saying I've never had a problem outparsing one.</p>

[Kheldin]

<p><blockquote>Yeah, that's great and all. You forget one thing, my entire point. You do your DPS...that's great. However, other classes DPS far better. Why take a DPS 10 if you can find a DPS 100. So, they don't need you there for DPS. Crowd Control isn't needed much in this game, but it is handy for emergencies, so that's a nice little twirk. So, you're not there for DPS (other classes do much better), so what "are" you there for? Chanter buffs...that's why. Power regens, DPS buffs,stat buffs, and so on. The only thing you're there for other than buffing your group up is for the occasional emergency mez. Remember, even your powerful DPS output spells are actually buffs on other groupmates.  Talking chanters in general, here.</p><p>Are chanters useful? Sure they are, but it's due to their ability to buff. That's not necc. a bad thing, but the forum did ask what is the purpose of chanters. Answer? Buffbot.</blockquote></p> <p>Unfortunately, I have to agree with this... well not with the bot part of it, but his overall point is in fact, right on. I have a motto for all of these types of games I play.. and I stole it from The Rock.. KNOW YOUR ROLE, JABRONI! </p><p>Plain and simple, enchanters are a 'support' class. Nothing irritates me more than *any* class pretending to be 'the jack of all trades' kinda guy. If your a tank, tank, if your a healer, heal, if your a DPS machine, DPS, if your a support class, for the love of god.. support! This is how this game is designed, its not our choice really.</p>Personally, I rolled an illusionist to: 1. Support the tank with some nice buffs 2. Support the DPS'ers with some nice buffs 3. Support everyone with a larger mana pool to draw from, as well as faster replenishment (which leads to) 4. Supporting the entire group so that everyone can excel beyond their normal capabilities 5. CC'ing / stunning mobs <p>We can't argue about 'can we DPS', because, sure any class can.. but that is not what we were designed to do! Questioning what any class *can* do isn't the point. With this kind of argument, you would have to apply it all across the boards because theoretically, Templars can tank, just not as well as guardians. I'm sure many enchanters can DPS. Thats great. But if I need to fill a DPS spot in my raid, and have a choice between an illusionist or a wizard (or any other heavy DPSing class), I'm sorry, but I'm choosing the wizard. With all of the arguemnets here, I still can't even begin to understand why anyone would choose an illusionist for a DPS spot (unless its the last resort). </p><p>To answer the original posters questions 'Are we a desired class - YES. What is our primary role? - To support our group (1st) and then add DPS (2nd). but only when we aren't mitigating damage, stunning, mezzing etc.. (ie, supporting).' </p>

[Leemeg]

<p>The illusionist isn't just a buffbot, it can be, but then too much of it's potensial is wasted.</p><p>Mezzing is really only a minor part of the class, as many has said, and is rarly used in a group setting. The only place mezz is good, is when soloing, if the tank/healer is strugling and need a bit help to get past the worst damage spikes, or if the group is taking on something that is too high for them in the first place. Mezzing when the tank/healer is able to hold aggro and stay alive while burning down the mobs, is just a waste of energy.</p><p>Where a enchanter/illusionist is good is that they can almost chain stun/stiffle/dace any targets, which makes the tank take alot less damage. This is ontop of a decent dps. When I'm playing my Illusionist I'm just impressed by the actual dps I can push out, although it's best on single targets.</p><p>If the illusionist is striped down with the buffs, I would still have them in my group <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Etillchou]

<cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Caetrel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RpTheHotrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ1 Enchanters = Crowd Control</p><p>EQ2 Enchanters = Buffbots</p></blockquote>Only bad chanters, people who play with bad chanters, or people who don't know any better would agree with this. Illusionists = killer dps and buffs in raid and group settings, better solo ability than most classes, and crowd control for the rare times it is needed.    Get 100 AAs and some proc gear and you will see 2k+ parses.  OP, it's a good class.  Check out the illusionist section here it's a great forum. </blockquote>Like I said...buffbots. If you stripped away their ability to buff, what use would they be? Other classes DPS far better. The crowd control can "sometimes" be handy. </blockquote>That is kinda shortsided. If you remove their ability to buff.. Hmmz illu buffs (for sure with 100 aa's ) like time compression and double arms might just be the best buffs there are in game. They add a [I cannot control my vocabulary] of dps without even thinking about the haste and synergism. The illusionist is a great buff class AND it can do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] of dps also. Close to sorcerers and summoners.. So strip away their great buffs and you are left with a good dps class.. Look at a good dps class and hmmz they never will have the great buff illu's have. Illusionists are most likely the most versitile class in the game. They can do great dps, they offer great dps buffs (if not the best ingame) and even regen mana pretty well. 2/3 can be done as buffbot but comparing it with the other "buffbots" aka troubadeurs, dirges, coercers then the illusionist gives the most dps by far of those four on top of the buffs. edit: and on top of this all like said above.. We have crowd control.. Mezz.. hardly used.. But the stuns and stifles can easily save a raid. Phase can save any high dpsing class who got agroo all of a sudden. Its easy.. we rock.