How much dps does wisdom line really give?

[Iwap_Evile]

I have the traditional 4/4/4/8 stamina, wisdom, intelligence aa's. I was just wondering how much dps I would lose by dropping wisdom line and going 4/4/8/8 Stamina and Intelligence. Any of you using this AA spec? Is it any good?

[DynamicPerforman]

Give some more details.  IMO the best dps tools are end lines for STR WIS and INT. <ol><li>Short fights mostly? pvp? chi is VERY nice burst dps.</li><li>Longer fights? Solo?  Int end + the crit maxed = 100% crit.</li><li>Medium Fights? raids? group dps?  Crane flock seems to work well.</li></ol>I don't play a dps monk, but I know a few in game. Give me some situations and I'll go ask them their opinions and bring that back.

[TheSource123]

<cite>Iwap_Evile wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have the traditional 4/4/4/8 stamina, wisdom, intelligence aa's. I was just wondering how much dps I would lose by dropping wisdom line and going 4/4/8/8 Stamina and Intelligence. Any of you using this AA spec? Is it any good?</blockquote> STA/INT For small groups, 448/448/448 is generally best for raids, although as a Monk you shouldn't really be shooting for top parse anyways. You should be shooting to reroll as a new char, LoL (Nowadays anyways)

[Cyngii]

<p>So it sounds like you're going for more of a defensive setup?  Since you're not using Crane Flock from the WIS line, the only +dps thing you're losing is Crane Twirl.  Now don't get me wrong weapon procs are nice (and every little bit helps), but Crane Twirl (and the STA proc... Mantis Bite or whatever it's called) really don't account for much in the grand scheme of things.  Like i said it helpe, but with your tradeoff for one proc to get more defense you aren't going to go from a "DPS" monk to a slouch.</p>

[Cyngii]

<p>FWIW Crane Twirl seems to contribute about 3% to my overall damage/dps.  So as an exampe if I'm doing 70,000dmg on a fight around 2100dmg is from Crane Twirl which in DPS terms might translate to around 30-35 dps out of 1100-1200 dps on average.</p><p> Then there is Crane Flock which with the right setup can give about 2200dps for 12 seconds if you know how/when to use it.... Crane Flock, beefy 2 hander, and dispatch is your friend.</p>

[Dodger Sunsoar]

<p>if your group setup (Tank / Healer) allow it then go Crane Flock and Eagel Mastery.. Drop to 30% health and flock em to death ...</p><p>carefull !!  might result in a dead monk . once u get the knack out of it you will be LoooLing at your DPS  .-)</p><p> PS: not recommended in raids! unless you really really really know what ur about and the rest of the Raid does know about the suicidal Monk on their ranks.</p><p>CHeers!</p>

[PantherXX]

<p>I have seen the two-hander arguement a couple of times for Crane Flock, but what is the advantage?  If you already have Vraksin (sp?) then you are probably using it anyway, but why switch to a two-hander if you are using two good dual-wielders?  In fact, the duration is short enough that I would argue that one or two misses with a slow two-hander will really hurt you in Crane Flock, where you won't have that same issue with DW weapons.  </p><p>IMO, the duration and recast on flock are such that it just isn't worth it.  Back of the envelope calculations;</p><ul><li>You have 1k autoattack DPS in a <b><i>good</i></b> group</li><li>I think Flock is 16s duration with a 5min recast</li><li>Let's say on average you use it when facing two mobs so your total DPS increases by 2*2 (double attack * number of mobs), so you are doing 4k autoattack for 16s</li><li>Every 5 min, that's an additional 200dps -- assuming you double attack the multi-attack (in other words, does double-attack hit all the multi-attack mobs too?)</li></ul><p>Hmm ... maybe that isn't too bad afterall, espcially if you could time it with Eagle Shriek.  Can anyone confirm if your double attack is AOE?  And my original question on the two-hander still stands. </p>

[PrimusPilus]

<cite>PantherXX wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have seen the two-hander arguement a couple of times for Crane Flock, but what is the advantage?  If you already have Vraksin (sp?) then you are probably using it anyway, but why switch to a two-hander if you are using two good dual-wielders?  In fact, the duration is short enough that I would argue that one or two misses with a slow two-hander will really hurt you in Crane Flock, where you won't have that same issue with DW weapons.  </p><p>IMO, the duration and recast on flock are such that it just isn't worth it.  Back of the envelope calculations;</p><ul><li>You have 1k autoattack DPS in a <b><i>good</i></b> group</li><li>I think Flock is 16s duration with a 5min recast</li><li>Let's say on average you use it when facing two mobs so your total DPS increases by 2*2 (double attack * number of mobs), so you are doing 4k autoattack for 16s</li><li>Every 5 min, that's an additional 200dps -- assuming you double attack the multi-attack (in other words, does double-attack hit all the multi-attack mobs too?)</li></ul><p>Hmm ... maybe that isn't too bad afterall, espcially if you could time it with Eagle Shriek.  Can anyone confirm if your double attack is AOE?  And my original question on the two-hander still stands. </p></blockquote><p>Crane Flock ONLY works off the weapon in your main (right) hand, it does nothing for your offhand, whether you have a weapon in that hand or not. Thus, if you have two equel weapons in either hand, the one in your right hand will do double/multi attacks for 16 seconds, the one in your offhand will do only normal/single target attacks as usual. Thus, to maximize the effect of double/multi attack, you want your primary hand to have the hardest hitting weapon you can get, and that means two handed.</p><p>My tests showed that against a single mob, Crane Flock only improved dps by about 50% over plain autoattack. Two handers tend to do less dps then two equel dual weilders, but do more than them with crane Flock, quite a bit more with 4 mobs there.  </p>

[PantherXX]

<cite>PrimusPilus wrote:</cite><blockquote>PantherXX wrote: <p>Crane Flock ONLY works off the weapon in your main (right) hand, it does nothing for your offhand, whether you have a weapon in that hand or not. Thus, if you have two equel weapons in either hand, the one in your right hand will do double/multi attacks for 16 seconds, the one in your offhand will do only normal/single target attacks as usual. Thus, to maximize the effect of double/multi attack, you want your primary hand to have the hardest hitting weapon you can get, and that means two handed.</p><p>My tests showed that against a single mob, Crane Flock only improved dps by about 50% over plain autoattack. Two handers tend to do less dps then two equel dual weilders, but do more than them with crane Flock, quite a bit more with 4 mobs there.  </p></blockquote><p>That makes sense ... that occurred to me after I posted and is consistent with other procs effects, especially for the multi-attack.  However, that is a major game mechanic problem if it is the case for double attack.  Anyone out there lucky enough to consistently get an illusionist with Illusionary Arms that can confirm Dbl Attack only works on the main hand?</p><p>Also, my calcs were a little off even based on my assumptions.  The additional dps would be more like 160, not 200.  </p>

[mattmandude]

I'm curious about this, as I have a similar situation. Currently I have something like 4/4/8/6/2 in Stamina, and 4/8/8/2/2 in Int (one left over I haven't spent yet), and I did this mostly for the end line abilities (both being fairly useful in PvP). I'm trying to raise my DPS, and have thought about dropping the Stamina line and putting the points in Wisdom for crane flock/twirl... I'm just not too excited about losing the teleport ability for crane flock (which may not be as useful in PvP), and am also worried that I'll sacrifice some tanking ability (the extent of my tanking is heroic instances). So I guess the question is, would the DPS increase be worth trading for?