I've been playing the demo of that OTHER game... [Archive]

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Lightstrider

03-24-2007, 06:51 PM

and it has been an interesting experience, comparison-wise. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this, but since I was looking at the games overall, I didn't know where else to put it. Anyway, I downloaded the demo because I didn't understand why that game has so far outstripped everyone else in terms of population--and I'm not sure playing the demo has really answered that for me, to be honest, since I didn't level any character very high. But here are some of my initial thoughts:1. OK, that other game has the largest player base of any MMORPG, no matter whose numbers you look at. Yet they allow a player to have several characters on each server. This tells me that it can't be that difficult to store that data, since they are dealing with more players than anyone and don't seem to have a problem with it. I continue to be confused as to why Sony has gone the other direction.2. Graphics--I thought I would hate theirs more than I did. They simply don't compare at all to EQ2, no matter how you slice it, but if you were comparing them only to EQ1, I would give them the thumbs up. But they are definitely flat in comparison to what I am used to with EQ2.3. Characters--well, again, they can't design nuances into the look of their characters the way we can. They have a set number of variables, once again reminding me more of EQ1. The elves' ears seem to all be on growth hormones. I absolutely LOVED the Taurens, though--I thought their tribal society, based on Native American, was really unique. I played a Tauren more than anything. I wish we had buffalo people--that war stomp thing was great.4. Racial Differences--more meaningful in their game than in ours. I hope that changes--I know the devs said when they introduced the Fae with their hovering/not falling thing, that they hoped to introduce cool racial traits for all the pre-existing races. I definitely missed that from EQ1, the diversity.5. Cities--while we're on the subject of diversity, I loved the different cities. I miss that from EQ1 as well--every race had their own unique point of origin, more or less (until Trolls lost Grobb, anyway). It amplified the cultural differences, and I think in EQ2 we have lost a lot of that by squishing everyone into two cities (three now that we have Kelethin). So much fun just to see the different places.6. Every race has their own unique mount? Awesome.7. No load times? 'Nuff said.Well, it was fun while it lasted, and if I were rich, I would just play both games, as I loved the Tauren so much. But I still didn't really see why it got so big--why are millions of folks playing that game, and how come they didn't find EQ1 a couple years earlier? Just good marketing? I am mystified.

Nainitsuj

03-24-2007, 07:05 PM

Different marketing strategy. Take a company with a very high overall customer satisfaction and a popular game series. Make an MMO out of that series and you get their success. If I played the original game series I'm sure I'd be playing the MMO. Not to mention they actually had a marketing campaign to promote their game.Take a company with a terrible track record for customer satisfaction and a popular MMO world. Make a sequel and put very little effort in to marketing and you get their success. This applies to any of this company's supported games.

Lightstrider

03-24-2007, 07:23 PM

I keep hearing how horrible Sony support is, but I haven't experienced it much (except for the online chat support--that sucks, they are clearly just reading from some prewritten script for whatever problem you tell them you are having). Whenever I've had to call, my questions have always been answered painlessly. However, the fact that so many people DO complain tells me it must be an issue.Oh, but as to marketing, you are correct--the only reason I knew about Echoes of Faydwer was because I was seeing it on the website, which I imagine new players are less likely to frequent. Sad, really, as I think it's a great expansion.

valkyrja

03-24-2007, 07:30 PM

It's funny that most of your comments fall into the same category. "racial diversity" I've been saying that the idea to all all races to be exactly the same was a poor one. There needs to be a lot more difference between races IMO.

Nainitsuj

03-24-2007, 07:38 PM

sayitaintso

03-24-2007, 07:58 PM

<cite>Nainitsuj wrote:</cite><blockquote>Different marketing strategy. Take a company with a very high overall customer satisfaction and a popular game series. Make an MMO out of that series and you get their success. If I played the original game series I'm sure I'd be playing the MMO. Not to mention they actually had a marketing campaign to promote their game.Take a company with a terrible track record for customer satisfaction and a popular MMO world. Make a sequel and put very little effort in to marketing and you get their success. This applies to any of this company's supported games. </blockquote>Exactly correct...take a company with NO customer service skills, make a half completed ill-thought out sequeal that turns out not to be a sequeal, add major nerfs, mechanics changes and a large population if cheaters and you get....well you all know what you get.

sayitaintso

03-24-2007, 08:03 PM

<cite>Lightstrider wrote:</cite><blockquote>I keep hearing how horrible Sony support is, but I haven't experienced it much (except for the online chat support--that sucks, they are clearly just reading from some prewritten script for whatever problem you tell them you are having). Whenever I've had to call, my questions have always been answered painlessly. However, the fact that so many people DO complain tells me it must be an issue.Oh, but as to marketing, you are correct--the only reason I knew about Echoes of Faydwer was because I was seeing it on the website, which I imagine new players are less likely to frequent. Sad, really, as I think it's a great expansion.</blockquote> Wait until they get your billing incorrect or you try to cancel your account and you dispute it with your CC company...Not to mention there is ZERO in game support, the people who are suppose to help you with in game issues don't play the game so they have no idea what you are talking about half the time and if you desent from the way SOE feels about a serious issue and post about it here, your post will be removed so as not to alert others to the problem...You might even get a 3 day suspension from the boards...

YeldarbSpiritbla

03-24-2007, 08:21 PM

Lightstrider wrote: <blockquote>1. OK, that other game has the largest player base of any MMORPG, no matter whose numbers you look at. Yet they allow a player to have several characters on each server. This tells me that it can't be that difficult to store that data, since they are dealing with more players than anyone and don't seem to have a problem with it. I continue to be confused as to why Sony has gone the other direction.Not a game breaker by any means. WoW has character, gear, and UI, while EQ2 has to store character, gear, UI, home, and sales. A bit more to have to store, especially considering the engine.2. Graphics--I thought I would hate theirs more than I did. They simply don't compare at all to EQ2, no matter how you slice it, but if you were comparing them only to EQ1, I would give them the thumbs up. But they are definitely flat in comparison to what I am used to with EQ2./agree3. Characters--well, again, they can't design nuances into the look of their characters the way we can. They have a set number of variables, once again reminding me more of EQ1. The elves' ears seem to all be on growth hormones. I absolutely LOVED the Taurens, though--I thought their tribal society, based on Native American, was really unique. I played a Tauren more than anything. I wish we had buffalo people--that war stomp thing was great./agree We could use some variety and some fun in emotes.4. Racial Differences--more meaningful in their game than in ours. I hope that changes--I know the devs said when they introduced the Fae with their hovering/not falling thing, that they hoped to introduce cool racial traits for all the pre-existing races. I definitely missed that from EQ1, the diversity.They said they're working on it...5. Cities--while we're on the subject of diversity, I loved the different cities. I miss that from EQ1 as well--every race had their own unique point of origin, more or less (until Trolls lost Grobb, anyway). It amplified the cultural differences, and I think in EQ2 we have lost a lot of that by squishing everyone into two cities (three now that we have Kelethin). So much fun just to see the different places.They may be adding another one in the next expansion as well, we hope. This is a controversial issue as the two cities fit the lore written into the game. It also helps people to be able to stay together no matter what race they picked, except good vs evil(misunderstood). Most people tend to gravitate towards meeting places and "central" hubs anyways, so SoE just built that into the starter cities right off the bat. Just look at the complaints of how GF is away from the main hub and travel isn't so easy to the main hub. People like convenience over diversity in the middle and end game. It's just a matter of how important it is to you.It would have been better, IMO, to have each of the suburbs to be more diverse than they are. Like how Willow Wood is buildings and some flowers, and Baubleshire is some smaller buildings and some flowers, and Castleview is buildings and a fountain... Well, you get the idea. If each of them would have been more tailored to specific races, then it would give that diversity and still have easy access to the main hub, QH/SS. To do this at this point though would require a HUGE update. Make the suburbs about 5-10X larger and diversify the feeling of those zones.6. Every race has their own unique mount? Awesome.Not that big a deal to me... I like my horse.7. No load times? 'Nuff said.It was a choice between 10 FPS or load screens. They made the best choice, believe me. Try Vanguard sometime if you don't believe me. Anyways, with over-use of instances, you have load times in "that game" too, you just don't see them till mid-level up.Well, it was fun while it lasted, and if I were rich, I would just play both games, as I loved the Tauren so much. But I still didn't really see why it got so big--why are millions of folks playing that game, and how come they didn't find EQ1 a couple years earlier? Just good marketing? I am mystified.Name and marketing.</blockquote>

Slapfish

03-24-2007, 08:25 PM

Ok I've already voiced my opinion several times about why I think "that other game" is so popular, so I won't go into that here. But, I do have to comment on one thing. I don't think customer service has anything to do with it and "that other game" has even worse support than EQ.My son plays and at one point he logged in to find that ALL of his level 40 characters gear and bank items AND bank slots (which you pay for in that game) had vanished. He put in several petitions to get the stuff back. It took about a week for him to get the bank slots back, and he has still (4 months later) not gotten any of his gear back. Now that's what I call poor customer service.

Lightstrider

03-24-2007, 08:54 PM

I still don't buy the "oh, we have to store so much" argument, even if Sony is storing more types of information==they aren't storing it for MILLIONS of people, so it has to be less information.Another thing I meant to include on the list--we have a mythology (well, at least, we have on AGAIN, since EOF)--theirs is more or less missing in actiong. There are some references to things, but nothing very developed. I like the mythology, and was sorry it wasn't in EQ2 right from the beginning, but at least we have it now. Umm... they have guns. The first time someone came by me with a rifle and shot it, I freaked out!Yes, there were no load times in Star Wars Galaxies, but that was a nightmare due to the complex graphics, so I understand why Sony had to go with loading screens, but it was nice to not have to deal with it much.

YeldarbSpiritbla

03-24-2007, 08:55 PM

<cite>Slapfish wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I've already voiced my opinion several times about why I think "that other game" is so popular, so I won't go into that here. But, I do have to comment on one thing. I don't think customer service has anything to do with it and "that other game" has even worse support than EQ.My son plays and at one point he logged in to find that ALL of his level 40 characters gear and bank items AND bank slots (which you pay for in that game) had vanished. He put in several petitions to get the stuff back. It took about a week for him to get the bank slots back, and he has still (4 months later) not gotten any of his gear back. Now that's what I call poor customer service. </blockquote>/agree If you're trying to go off of customer support and "cheaters", Blizzard loses BIG TIME. No contest. Not only are there more cheaters per capita, but the hacks are outrageous. Some of the character hacks in WoW put old Ultima Online to shame. lol

YeldarbSpiritbla

03-24-2007, 09:18 PM

<cite>Lightstrider wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still don't buy the "oh, we have to store so much" argument, even if Sony is storing more types of information==they aren't storing it for MILLIONS of people, so it has to be less information.Per capita, you have to think per person, per server, per 14.95, NOT the sum of the whole.</blockquote>

Spyderbite

03-24-2007, 09:39 PM

<cite>valkyrja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been saying that the idea to all all races to be exactly the same was a poor one. There needs to be a lot more difference between races IMO. </blockquote>Must play a PvE server eh? Trust me.. its a lot tougher to target an Ogre than it is a Fae on a PvP server. There are advantages.

sayitaintso

03-25-2007, 02:03 AM

OK, if you couldn't or refused to play SOE games (including Vanguard since SOE profits from it) what MMO would you be playing right now?

Cathars

03-25-2007, 02:55 AM

<cite>valkyrja wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's funny that most of your comments fall into the same category. "racial diversity" I've been saying that the idea to all all races to be exactly the same was a poor one. There needs to be a lot more difference between races IMO. </blockquote> Yah, theres no denying that races don't differ much except in cosmetics. But I can see where their motivation was. In most games you have a 'best' race for particular classes. In EQ1, frontal stun immunity made ogres the best warriors. Many of the decisions made in the design of EQ2 were made for the sake of balance. Every priest class can heal, every fighter class can tank. Same but different ... how different is often lacking but for the most part balance is good. Even many different AA lines are viable. There is usually no best. With so many spells and abilites Its really amazing how this game probably can claim to be the most balanced on the market. I think this was the rationale behind lack of racial diversity.

sayitaintso

03-25-2007, 04:03 PM

So no one is willing to answer my question? Could it be because WoW would be the best option?

liveja

03-25-2007, 04:10 PM

Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>OK, if you couldn't or refused to play SOE games (including Vanguard since SOE profits from it) what MMO would you be playing right now? </blockquote>Dark Age of Camelot

sayitaintso

03-25-2007, 04:32 PM

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>OK, if you couldn't or refused to play SOE games (including Vanguard since SOE profits from it) what MMO would you be playing right now? </blockquote>Dark Age of Camelot </blockquote> ok good, an answer. honestly i didnt even know daoc was still around....

Denubisdjinn

03-25-2007, 05:01 PM

Most if not all of the top developers are former Everquest players from well known guilds. Tigole for example of Legacy of Steel is one of the quest designers in WOW. At the time EQ was still arguably the best game out. They made WOW everything that EQ players wanted that EQ didn't have. DAOC did the same and for a time stole a large number of EQ players.In partcular, WOW doesn't punish the player unlike original EQ. If you played it from release like me its ridiculous to think of all the penalties;Racial exp penaltiesClass exp penaltiesLosing exp & levels upon dying Having to retrieve your armor from your corpse and possibly losing themHell levels, followed by levels where you lost an entire bubble of exp upon death. Thats just a few of the many things and sony would up the ante and remove alot of those aspects to keep their player base. WOW isn't perfect it has many issues just read the forums to see many of the same complaints as here. Overpowered classes, broken encounters etc. My main beef was that early on Blizzard favored Alliance, and Horde seemed pretty much an afterthought. Theres also a massive population imbalance as over 70% of the people play Alliance.

Ishya

03-25-2007, 06:11 PM

isn't that horse dead enough?

liveja

03-25-2007, 09:35 PM

Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote> ok good, an answer. honestly i didnt even know daoc was still around.... </blockquote>I'd go back to Anarchy Online, before I'd go back to WoW. Heck, probably even Ultima Online.

Wingrider01

03-25-2007, 10:43 PM

liveja

03-25-2007, 10:52 PM

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>OK, if you couldn't or refused to play SOE games (including Vanguard since SOE profits from it) what MMO would you be playing right now? </blockquote> Easy - Oblivion or Toon Town since the graphics are better then WoW</blockquote>Oblivion isn't an MMO, & please tell me you're totally joking about ToonTown.If ToonTown were my *sole* MMO option other than WoW, I'd likely quit playing MMOs entirely until something worth my time came around.OTOH, I could side-step Stinkii's question by pointing out that I don't have an issue with SOE, so whether or not SOE makes money off Vanguard is irrelevant to me.

sayitaintso

03-25-2007, 11:01 PM

<cite>Denubisdjinn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most if not all of the top developers are former Everquest players from well known guilds. Tigole for example of Legacy of Steel is one of the quest designers in WOW. At the time EQ was still arguably the best game out. They made WOW everything that EQ players wanted that EQ didn't have. DAOC did the same and for a time stole a large number of EQ players.In partcular, WOW doesn't punish the player unlike original EQ. If you played it from release like me its ridiculous to think of all the penalties;Racial exp penaltiesClass exp penaltiesLosing exp & levels upon dying Having to retrieve your armor from your corpse and possibly losing themHell levels, followed by levels where you lost an entire bubble of exp upon death. Thats just a few of the many things and sony would up the ante and remove alot of those aspects to keep their player base. WOW isn't perfect it has many issues just read the forums to see many of the same complaints as here. Overpowered classes, broken encounters etc. My main beef was that early on Blizzard favored Alliance, and Horde seemed pretty much an afterthought. Theres also a massive population imbalance as over 70% of the people play Alliance. </blockquote>I knew of Tigole from EQ1. LOS had a member that was a friend of a guild mate of mine from Heaven and Earth on Saryrn and we shared strats...(well LoS really just shared theirs..LOL) If he has enfluence on WoW then I know why WoW has more of an EQ1 feel to it. I didn't mind the "penalties" that SOE imposed on us in EQ1. I would take them any day over the lack of customer service, incomplete and cheater filled game that EQ2 is...

sayitaintso

03-25-2007, 11:11 PM

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>OK, if you couldn't or refused to play SOE games (including Vanguard since SOE profits from it) what MMO would you be playing right now? </blockquote> Easy - Oblivion or Toon Town since the graphics are better then WoW</blockquote>Oblivion isn't an MMO, & please tell me you're totally joking about ToonTown.If ToonTown were my *sole* MMO option other than WoW, I'd likely quit playing MMOs entirely until something worth my time came around.OTOH, I could side-step Stinkii's question by pointing out that I don't have an issue with SOE, so whether or not SOE makes money off Vanguard is irrelevant to me. </blockquote>Right, I know you are a big SOE fan, but I really just want to know what else is out there. I have been playing SOE games since 1999 and haven't really given much thought to playing anything else. DAoC and Asheron's Call were popular when I was playing EQ1 but I really haven't been paying attention to anything else. I saw WoW about a year or so ago for the first time and thought it was too cartoonish, recently though I have changed my thinking because of what EQ1 originally looked like, plus I have a few friends from EQ1 that play. I was wondering if there were anything in the sword and sorcery genre that might interest me outside of the SOE realm. I am cancelling my Station Access and I will have 6 level 70 toons. I am going to dormant the account until they raise the level cap. I guess I will stick with WoW and try out LoTR Online next month.

metacell

03-26-2007, 04:02 AM

<cite>Slapfish wrote:</cite><blockquote>My son plays and at one point he logged in to find that ALL of his level 40 characters gear and bank items AND bank slots (which you pay for in that game) had vanished. He put in several petitions to get the stuff back. It took about a week for him to get the bank slots back, and he has still (4 months later) not gotten any of his gear back. Now that's what I call poor customer service. </blockquote>A friend of mine had his EQ2 account compromised (someone logged in and transferred all his money). He petitioned, and accidentally got his money back twice. (It was over 100 pp) I count this as a BAD thing. Someone could use the customer services lack of knowledge to gain unfair advantages. On another occasion, three of my friends and I were doing the betrayal quest together. Due to a bug, one of us couldn't finish the first part, and deleting the quest didn't help. The customer service told him he had to roll a new character. That's even worse than when software companies tell you to reinstall your operating system to get their software to work...

liveja

03-26-2007, 11:34 AM

Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>I didn't mind the "penalties" that SOE imposed on us in EQ1. I would take them any day over the lack of customer service, incomplete and cheater filled game that EQ2 is... </blockquote> I'm sorry, have you actually PLAYED WoW? Have you spent much time in their forums? Did you not know that the term "Chinese Gold Farmer" was practically coined at WoW General? That game is, if anything, even MORE riddled with cheaters than EQ2 is. You ought to realize that statistically speaking that HAS to be true, since there are a gazillion more people playing WoW, than EQ2, & Blizzard has been just as unable to stop them as SOE has.I realize you're a big SOE hater, but seriously, try to be a little more objective, will you? I don't personally "like" SOE much, myself; I just happen to think their game is a LOT better than Blizzard's, & I don't think the two companies are any different, ergo, I stick to EQ2.

Fing

03-26-2007, 02:40 PM

Lightstrider wrote: <blockquote> Just good marketing? I am mystified.</blockquote> 1. You can play WoW on an old system with a dial up modem.2. WoW's combat system has entry level skills that are simple, yet it can become very complex. Skill matters more in WoW than other MMOs.3. Combat just feels better in WoW than VG or EQ2.4. There is enough stuff to do for everyone, casuals and raiders.5. Toons look better. How many times have I seen an NE female in WoW dressed to the nines standing in front of the AH so people could stop and gock at her?6. PvP on demand.7. PvP balance and good design. The PvP experience in WoW is very intense.8. Interesting, light hearted game world.9. Hunters. Anyone can play a hunter and get by.10. Cool stuff like mechano striders for gnomes.11. Interesting cities like Thunderbluff and Stormwind. And there's more.I'm enjoying my experience in EQ2, and there are a lot of things that EQ2 does better than WoW, but I'm going back to WoW eventually.My biggest gripe about EQ2 is that I'm alone much of the time. It's more like playing Oblivion than a MMOG. My guess is that everyone but me is lvl 70.

sayitaintso

03-26-2007, 02:41 PM

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>I didn't mind the "penalties" that SOE imposed on us in EQ1. I would take them any day over the lack of customer service, incomplete and cheater filled game that EQ2 is... </blockquote> I'm sorry, have you actually PLAYED WoW? Have you spent much time in their forums? Did you not know that the term "Chinese Gold Farmer" was practically coined at WoW General? That game is, if anything, even MORE riddled with cheaters than EQ2 is. You ought to realize that statistically speaking that HAS to be true, since there are a gazillion more people playing WoW, than EQ2, & Blizzard has been just as unable to stop them as SOE has.I realize you're a big SOE hater, but seriously, try to be a little more objective, will you? I don't personally "like" SOE much, myself; I just happen to think their game is a LOT better than Blizzard's, & I don't think the two companies are any different, ergo, I stick to EQ2.</blockquote>YES As I posted before I have been playing WoW for about 2 weeks. I have yet to recieve one in game tell for coin sales or power leveling...I know they are out there and I expect to get messages....But as you have reminded us over and over you can't get rid of them all...But 2 weeks without a message is about 1400% better than SOE where I get an average of one tell and one mail a day... I don't hate SOE. I do despise what they have done to this game, and what they have allowed their customer service to become. I think EQ2 had the potential to be the best MMO on the market today, but SOE blew it with heavy handed nerfs, game mechanics changes that wern't needed and no in game support. They also could have continued to market the game to encourage new players. I think they though word of mouth alone would keep people interested in playing and new players coming in, like EQ1. Except that when EQ1 was released there was little competition. There are just too many other games on the market these days not to have an ongoing and aggresive marketing campaign for any game. This price increase for SA is the last straw for me. I will be reduced to 6 toons, all level 70 and the level 70 content is old after 6 toons..I need to find something...SO far WoW has my attention, and I may look into LoTR next month since I will be able to play both for less than the new cost of SA...

Korpo

03-26-2007, 06:33 PM

<cite>Lightstrider wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. OK, that other game has the largest player base of any MMORPG, no matter whose numbers you look at. Yet they allow a player to have several characters on each server. This tells me that it can't be that difficult to store that data, since they are dealing with more players than anyone and don't seem to have a problem with it. I continue to be confused as to why Sony has gone the other direction.Working with various IT type things for so long, I've learned that 1 hardly ever equals 1, when you are talking about different kinds of 1. One character record in EQ2 may take vastly more space, may run on a different kind of OS/DB backend, may this may that. Not that it does, but without more data we aren't in a position to say that it does or doesn't, and we can't lay blame for the decision.It'd be like if your buddy asked you to walk his five dogs every night while he's out of town, they could be five well trained beagles or they could be five surly Irish wolfhounds. Without all the info, you don't really know how big of a job you're looking at, and you don't really know if it's possible or not. 2. Graphics--I thought I would hate theirs more than I did. They simply don't compare at all to EQ2, no matter how you slice it, but if you were comparing them only to EQ1, I would give them the thumbs up. But they are definitely flat in comparison to what I am used to with EQ2.I hate the WoW graphics. It feels like I'm playing a Disney cartoon. 3. Characters--well, again, they can't design nuances into the look of their characters the way we can. They have a set number of variables, once again reminding me more of EQ1. The elves' ears seem to all be on growth hormones. I absolutely LOVED the Taurens, though--I thought their tribal society, based on Native American, was really unique. I played a Tauren more than anything. I wish we had buffalo people--that war stomp thing was great.See above. 4. Racial Differences--more meaningful in their game than in ours. I hope that changes--I know the devs said when they introduced the Fae with their hovering/not falling thing, that they hoped to introduce cool racial traits for all the pre-existing races. I definitely missed that from EQ1, the diversity.I like the racial differences, though I don't really care for the racial limitations. I know there's probably some kind of lore behind it, but dang it, if I want to make a human druid I should be able to.As for the racial trait revamp, I waited well over a year for my coercer and warlock class hats to be put in the game. It's lead me to be less than excited about anything that's "promised", until it's actually in the game and working. 5. Cities--while we're on the subject of diversity, I loved the different cities. I miss that from EQ1 as well--every race had their own unique point of origin, more or less (until Trolls lost Grobb, anyway). It amplified the cultural differences, and I think in EQ2 we have lost a lot of that by squishing everyone into two cities (three now that we have Kelethin). So much fun just to see the different places.I like the different cities, but it's kind of a hassle to find your way around a new one for the first time, especially when people aren't necessarily where you'd think they should be. Specifically, trying to find the "journeyman" (or whatever) tailor, that wasn't with the "apprentice" or "expert" tailors. The same goes for other tradeskill people, and with the fact that it takes about 10 minutes to go from apprentice to journeyman, you spend a lot of time looking for people. Add to that the fact that you can't search for people by name, and I had to spend a lot of time browsing maps online to find the people I was looking for. It seems overly confusing for a noob like me. 6. Every race has their own unique mount? Awesome.Meh, I don't really care. Cool I guess, but I'm not going to award too many kudos for that. 7. No load times? 'Nuff said.I get load times when I go into instances. Between overland places though, no. However, the amount of geometry between a standard WoW "zone" and an EQ2 zone can't really be compared. There are more curves and corners and such in one room of one instance in EQ2 than there are in whole continents in WoW. Well, it was fun while it lasted, and if I were rich, I would just play both games, as I loved the Tauren so much. But I still didn't really see why it got so big--why are millions of folks playing that game, and how come they didn't find EQ1 a couple years earlier? Just good marketing? I am mystified.</blockquote>I've been playing WoW a lot lately due to not being able to dedicate the time/energy/interest to EQ2. My comments to whatever dev might accidentally stumble into the forums and read a thread that's not in NGD.

liveja

03-26-2007, 06:39 PM

<cite>Fingis wrote:</cite><blockquote>6. PvP on demand.7. PvP balance and good design. The PvP experience in WoW is very intense.</blockquote> These are the only two things I actively miss about WoW, & since I'm not a huge fan of PvP, I can easily get by without them.

sayitaintso

03-27-2007, 01:14 AM

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lightstrider wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. OK, that other game has the largest player base of any MMORPG, no matter whose numbers you look at. Yet they allow a player to have several characters on each server. This tells me that it can't be that difficult to store that data, since they are dealing with more players than anyone and don't seem to have a problem with it. I continue to be confused as to why Sony has gone the other direction.Working with various IT type things for so long, I've learned that 1 hardly ever equals 1, when you are talking about different kinds of 1. One character record in EQ2 may take vastly more space, may run on a different kind of OS/DB backend, may this may that. Not that it does, but without more data we aren't in a position to say that it does or doesn't, and we can't lay blame for the decision.It'd be like if your buddy asked you to walk his five dogs every night while he's out of town, they could be five well trained beagles or they could be five surly Irish wolfhounds. Without all the info, you don't really know how big of a job you're looking at, and you don't really know if it's possible or not. I was at the Fan Faire when EQ2 was announced and demonstrated for us. The developers at that time expected the number of EQ2 subscribers to be double the number of EQ1 subscribers...EQ1 at that time had well over half a million players...SO this game has the space to store up to a million accounts at least....The excuse that they don't have the storage to offer more character slots because of limited database or physical storage is a myth so that they could sell character slots...Just as they have done...In teh form of over priced Station Access Pass. 2. Graphics--I thought I would hate theirs more than I did. They simply don't compare at all to EQ2, no matter how you slice it, but if you were comparing them only to EQ1, I would give them the thumbs up. But they are definitely flat in comparison to what I am used to with EQ2.I hate the WoW graphics. It feels like I'm playing a Disney cartoon. So what...you are playing a real life person in EQ2? no it's a CARTOON just like WoW, it just looks a little more life like...Who cares...toon is what toon does...Would you want all MMOs to use all teh same character models? WoWs toons are unique and fun... 3. Characters--well, again, they can't design nuances into the look of their characters the way we can. They have a set number of variables, once again reminding me more of EQ1. The elves' ears seem to all be on growth hormones. I absolutely LOVED the Taurens, though--I thought their tribal society, based on Native American, was really unique. I played a Tauren more than anything. I wish we had buffalo people--that war stomp thing was great.See above.WoW unlike EQ2 alows you to play races that are not playable in EQ2 even though there are those of use who begged for it even before EQ2 was known to exist..Orcs and Goblins are great...But you don't find them in EQ2 except as over used NPC models.. 4. Racial Differences--more meaningful in their game than in ours. I hope that changes--I know the devs said when they introduced the Fae with their hovering/not falling thing, that they hoped to introduce cool racial traits for all the pre-existing races. I definitely missed that from EQ1, the diversity.I like the racial differences, though I don't really care for the racial limitations. I know there's probably some kind of lore behind it, but dang it, if I want to make a human druid I should be able to.As for the racial trait revamp, I waited well over a year for my coercer and warlock class hats to be put in the game. It's lead me to be less than excited about anything that's "promised", until it's actually in the game and working.Class hats aren't racial traits...And racial traits like the ones in EQ1 that had meaning were always balanced by some negative trait...Like trolls has racial regen but started out with the lowest WIS/INT of any race....Haflings has faster mana regen but they ate their food faster and had to replenish faster than any race..Those are good things in an MMO. It provides a conduit for thought when rolling a new toon... 5. Cities--while we're on the subject of diversity, I loved the different cities. I miss that from EQ1 as well--every race had their own unique point of origin, more or less (until Trolls lost Grobb, anyway). It amplified the cultural differences, and I think in EQ2 we have lost a lot of that by squishing everyone into two cities (three now that we have Kelethin). So much fun just to see the different places.I like the different cities, but it's kind of a hassle to find your way around a new one for the first time, especially when people aren't necessarily where you'd think they should be. Specifically, trying to find the "journeyman" (or whatever) tailor, that wasn't with the "apprentice" or "expert" tailors. The same goes for other tradeskill people, and with the fact that it takes about 10 minutes to go from apprentice to journeyman, you spend a lot of time looking for people. Add to that the fact that you can't search for people by name, and I had to spend a lot of time browsing maps online to find the people I was looking for. It seems overly confusing for a noob like me. Cities for every class makes the game world HUGE...as long as the developers are willing to give us speed enhancements and or easy modes of travel I am all for a huge world..But teh travel must be balanced. Right now the game world in EQ2 is out of balance with no shortcut travel from Kellthing like there is from Freeport or Qeynos...It also opens up the world for more possible adventuring and questing...In EQ1 you had to travel from city to city to complete quests or find items that were only available in certain cities..That even meant infiltrating cities where you had KOS faction at times...In this game the factions are almost meaningless...In fact about teh only things you can't do between factions is share bank space (which is rediculous because it is a shared ACCOUNT bank space, not a shared faction bank space) and you can't safely go running around inside the opposing city until you reach higher levels... 6. Every race has their own unique mount? Awesome.Meh, I don't really care. Cool I guess, but I'm not going to award too many kudos for that.Not only are there so many mounts, but there are so many mount models...What do we have? Horses and Carpets....Yeah, we had whilte and black horses...Now not so much....Carpets that use to be able to go backwards, but because horses can go backward fast, they program all the mounts to go backward...just to be "fair" even though those of us who did the quest for the carpet pre nerf didn't get a carpet that couldn't go backward, we jsut woke up one day and without an explanation they told us our mounts can't go any faster than horses in reverse... 7. No load times? 'Nuff said.I get load times when I go into instances. Between overland places though, no. However, the amount of geometry between a standard WoW "zone" and an EQ2 zone can't really be compared. There are more curves and corners and such in one room of one instance in EQ2 than there are in whole continents in WoW. Prior to EoF and the rendering bug my load times were fairyl consistant and fast. Now that they appear to have removed SOME (not all) of the rendering bug, I have varying load times from 15 seconds to over 2 minutes..I like not needing to worry about loading Well, it was fun while it lasted, and if I were rich, I would just play both games, as I loved the Tauren so much. But I still didn't really see why it got so big--why are millions of folks playing that game, and how come they didn't find EQ1 a couple years earlier? Just good marketing? I am mystified.Marketing, Customer service, a game that will play on just about any PC made in the last 3-4 years right out of the box, good word of mouth, happy players who don't see nerfs on a regular basis, people who wern't disillusioned by the way EQ1 was handled by SOE the last 3 years, People who believe that Blizzard has their customer's best interest at heart, even though they do make mistakes...where as SOE has a reputation for trampling on it's subscriber's...(I.E. the upcoming price increase for station access without giving us a viable option to keep our 4 extra toon slots without needing SA) </blockquote>I've been playing WoW a lot lately due to not being able to dedicate the time/energy/interest to EQ2. My comments to whatever dev might accidentally stumble into the forums and read a thread that's not in NGD. Although it has been said the devs do read these forums, they sure don't seem to take much of it to heart. They continue to nerf and make changes that they know is going to cause drama and discontent in the game...It's like they make changes that they know are going to be the last straw for people, even knowing that not too many new players are joining...Like they have a death wish for the game... </blockquote>

Chirpaa

03-27-2007, 05:35 AM

<cite>Fingis wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. You can play WoW on an old system with a dial up modem.And you can with EQ2 as well, if you turn your settings down. Not a valid point for WoW. And, for those of us who realize it has been the 21st century for 7 years now, WoW's inability to be turned UP to take advantage of what we've paid for in hardware is a negative.2. WoW's combat system has entry level skills that are simple, yet it can become very complex. Skill matters more in WoW than other MMOs.Incorrect, gear matters more, and little else. Player skill other than "not being an idiot" is practically irrelevant in WoW.3. Combat just feels better in WoW than VG or EQ2.Personal opinion, I disagree. I feel that WoW combat feels repetative and tiresome compared to EQ2.4. There is enough stuff to do for everyone, casuals and raiders..... Totally incorrect. Unless you consider endlessly repeating the exact same things over and over and over 1,000,000 times for faction, rep and/or specific gear drops as "enough stuff." WoW has very little actual content in comparison to EQ2.5. Toons look better. How many times have I seen an NE female in WoW dressed to the nines standing in front of the AH so people could stop and gock at her?If you like cartoons, sure...6. PvP on demand.If you consider 'on demand' as meaning 'after waiting an hour in the queue you get 5 minutes of PvP. (Varies by race and server, of course)7. PvP balance and good design. The PvP experience in WoW is very intense.PvP in WoW boils down to being 95 percent decided by who has the better gear, provided both sides actually have a clue.8. Interesting, light hearted game world.I'll give you that. Some of us would prefer a game world that actually has some depth to it though. 9. Hunters. Anyone can play a hunter and get by.LOL, and this is a selling feature?10. Cool stuff like mechano striders for gnomes.TRUE!11. Interesting cities like Thunderbluff and Stormwind. And there's more.I'm enjoying my experience in EQ2, and there are a lot of things that EQ2 does better than WoW, but I'm going back to WoW eventually.My biggest gripe about EQ2 is that I'm alone much of the time. It's more like playing Oblivion than a MMOG. My guess is that everyone but me is lvl 70.Totally untrue, at least on my server; are you actually trying to meet people and get groups or do you expect them to just fall on your head?</blockquote>I've added rebuttal's into the quote in green. Now mind you, I played WoW for a long time. I don't hate it...but most of what people try to say are selling features to it are really inaccurate. I can always tell the people who played WoW without even getting a single toon to the level cap...as they have so many comments that are innaccurate. Particularly the "plenty to do" one. Having leveled 8 toons to 60 in WoW (when it was the cap), I'm quite familiar with the content in WoW. By the time I leveled my 8th toon I was so intimately familiar with it that I could level to 60, completing every single available pre-raid quest in the game and max out my craft skill in under 7 days played. This is without power-levelling, grouping only to do the quests that are in instances. WoW does have selling features (obviously) but it's just wrong to falsely make claims about it (even if out of ignorance), especially in the forum of a competing product. It'd be a shame if people read the points here and left to play WoW considering, at the end of the day, EQ2 really does have a lot more to offer and what people "claim" in often far from the truth.WoW's success boils down to the fact that it had the names "Blizzard" and "Warcraft" on the box. This made it hugely successful; after that word of mouth was enough. Fans tend to promote what they are a fan of, irregardless of whether the product is all that good.

Sunlei

03-27-2007, 06:22 AM

The wow characters look just like my warcraft 2,b.net box graphic hehe. Sure it's gonna be popular, even Starcraft had a following and cheap games are huge market in asian countries. How long do they play for and how much does each account pay? One eq2 new account and one month all access =20 asian game room players payment? And the history of blizzard cheaters goes back years, remember how bad the map hacks were for Starcraft? what about their other games, lists and lists of 100s of cheats? Even today go look at their cs wowboard (would be good if soe started a cs messageboard) Go see wows, it's full of people who's accounts are stolen and stripped of everything and used for gold selling. Their gold sellers are putting key loggers in the wow add-ons and using peoples accounts to sell off of. Bet people are even stripping their own accounts and then getting blizzard to roll them back.."oh no my account was hacked, rollback and restore please" a old scam soe has more experience dealing with.Those players are complaining of gold selling tells every 5 mins. 40 tells, wispers they call them in a play session. This games not near those rates.And you want bots like wow? They are plagued by bots to the point they have to sue the bot maker. Their games so cheap that its even easier for gold sellers/botters to just make another free account. I can post my support of the Everquest games because these are the EQ2 boards. WoW is a cartoon looking game, so easy a baby can play it, to few classes and races. Looks just like my old collection of warcraft boxes. And full of cheaters, millions of cheaters. Enjoy your free demo.

Veet

03-27-2007, 08:28 AM

I played WoW for two years. Compared to EQ2, it's like Fisher Price My First MMO. This is not necessarily a bad thing. It's easy to learn easy and enjoy and the mental and hardware requirements are much much friendlier than on any other MMO out there. The overall WoW experience is for more...consistent than the EQ2 experience, and that is a huge selling points. Anyone can play it. And anyone does. Beggars. Children. Farmers. Griefers. Cheaters. But that is to be expected, any population of 8 million is going to have a fair number of criminals. But, WoW does not have more to do than EQ2. When I last played, the WoW quest log could hold 25. I very rarely filled it and I took on just about every single quest available to me. The EQ2 quest log holds 75, and I have to delete stuff all the time. It's just not possible for a single character to get experience for every single quest handed to them. With three xpacks and 3 adventure packs, EQ2 has more stuff to do than most people know what to do with. The latest expansion has content the keep you busy from 1-70. It's possible to get to 70 without ever leaving the xpack zones. Regarding the question of racial and starting location diversity : I like the fact that I can play any class with any race with only mild stat repercussions in the beginning. Any being of any sentient race should be able to choose their path. Anything else is, in fact, racist and backwards. Even in a magical MMO. And while there are only three main cities, those cities are vastly different, and the differences matter to some people. I will never ever ever play an evil character because of the loathing I have for Freeport. I would love to play a necro, SK or defiler but I never will because I hate hate hate the city of Freeport. It's an oppresive, evil slum and it's so well designed that when you're playing you feel like you're in an oppressive, evil slum. Those that complain that we only have 3 starting areas (including EoF) and 3 cities: well, that's lore based. This may not be clear to people that didn't play at the start of EQ2, but goes like this: The moon exploded and the gods left Norrath and the world went to heck in a basket. Everyone that starts on newbie island is a refugee of some sort, rescued from the broken world. The cities of FP and Q are the only bastions of civilization left. Lore matters in this game.

LadyAnnaAnna

03-27-2007, 12:51 PM

<cite>Slapfish wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I've already voiced my opinion several times about why I think "that other game" is so popular, so I won't go into that here. But, I do have to comment on one thing. I don't think customer service has anything to do with it and "that other game" has even worse support than EQ.My son plays and at one point he logged in to find that ALL of his level 40 characters gear and bank items AND bank slots (which you pay for in that game) had vanished. He put in several petitions to get the stuff back. It took about a week for him to get the bank slots back, and he has still (4 months later) not gotten any of his gear back. Now that's what I call poor customer service. </blockquote> As I play that "other game" too, and have many stories to this effect, it probably would have been better if he had just accepted it, and moved on. I have never heard of a case of this happening where the affected party hadn't shared their account information with -someone-.

liveja

03-27-2007, 01:06 PM

Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>WoWs toons are unique and fun.. </blockquote>Well, if you like that over-the-top style of animation, fine, that's your business.I don't. I disliked WoW's character graphics from the minute I laid eyes on them. More than a year of playing, with a level 60 from each faction, left me hating WoW's character graphics.For my money, EQ2 graphics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WoW.

Cyner

03-27-2007, 01:27 PM

WoW is a much simpler game on a large scale. The PvE is very lame though...they make things difficult by ONLY adding more mobs, this proven by Shattered Halls.

zaun2

03-27-2007, 01:54 PM

What I like about EQ2: The graphics are more my style. Other people prefer the pseudo-anime stylized look of the Other MMO, but I like buildings to be buildings, and not edifices thumbing their nose at the laws of physics. The people in EQ and EQ2 are a cut above. As soon as the Other MMO opened its doors, even though EQ lost population, the quality of its players improved because the people who were only playing to sell stuff on ebay moved to the greener pasture. Little things in EQ2, which help playability. For example, being able to queue a spell, so when I am mashing CAs on my inquis, one casts, then the other follows right behind it with no delay. The quick twinkle on the left and right on a button as a spell's cooldown finishes and its ready again. The fact that I can target a mob for debuffs, and heal the player automatically without having to flip keys. The class buffs which stack, so if one gets a good group, it becomes quite powerful. The ability to get something done, even if just hopping on for a couple minutes. I can log on my sage, work on some orders, and get him some crafting exp, even if I only have 5-10 minutes or so. What I didn't like about the other MMO: PvP is very little skill, after you learn your class's basic stuff. Endgame, in battlegrounds its for the most part who has the equipment with the bigger numbers, and who can wiggle the mouse faster for circle strafing. In world PvP, its who has the most zerglings. The skill level of the population is not that great, but there isn't much asked of people in the game. One can get 1-70 without any grouping, so basic PvE class skills are harder to find than a more PvE-based game like EQ, EQ2, or V:SoH where soloing can be done, but grouping gives far larger rewards. The server population is large, so people can be anonymous and rude. Reputations don't really matter over there much, and if a person does get a server-wide bad rep, they can transfer their character to another realm, have it renamed, and nobody will ever know. In EQ and EQ2, reputations matter a lot, and people have very long memories. The fact that your "spec" almost meant more than your class sometimes. In EQ2, even if a priest has AAs all in CAs, if their heal spells are at a decent level, they can still heal effectively. In the Other MMO, you had to choose between solo ability or heal ability in groups, and it was hard to find a suitable balance between the two, so you ended up speccing one way to level up, then a different way to group/raid. Once you obtained better equipment, this was less of an issue, however. Lastly, I never was really enjoying the Other MMO, mainly only playing due to RL friends... I was always grumpy due to one thing or the other. EQ2, I'm happy playing and don't feel I'm doing it just to help out.

sayitaintso

03-27-2007, 05:36 PM

<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fingis wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. You can play WoW on an old system with a dial up modem.And you can with EQ2 as well, if you turn your settings down. Not a valid point for WoW. And, for those of us who realize it has been the 21st century for 7 years now, WoW's inability to be turned UP to take advantage of what we've paid for in hardware is a negative.I bet your a spoiled american....WoW is an international game, played in a lot of countries where lower end PCs and dial up connections are still the norm...Blizzard knew exactly what tehey were doing. It's a testament to their marketing skill...It's not a negative at all.. 2. WoW's combat system has entry level skills that are simple, yet it can become very complex. Skill matters more in WoW than other MMOs.Incorrect, gear matters more, and little else. Player skill other than "not being an idiot" is practically irrelevant in WoW.Skill and strat matter in ANY game, wether it's a MMO or Monolpoly...Gear matters, but nothing will ever replace human thinking... 3. Combat just feels better in WoW than VG or EQ2.Personal opinion, I disagree. I feel that WoW combat feels repetative and tiresome compared to EQ2.Right and grinding levels by killing droags/goblins/orcs/undead over and over isn't tiresome and repetitive... 4. There is enough stuff to do for everyone, casuals and raiders..... Totally incorrect. Unless you consider endlessly repeating the exact same things over and over and over 1,000,000 times for faction, rep and/or specific gear drops as "enough stuff." WoW has very little actual content in comparison to EQ2.Totally Incorrect Unless you concider ENDLESSLY reapeating the exact same instance, quest, zone clearing over and over 1.000.000 times to grind levels and increase faction...EQ2 is exactly like WoW in that regard. 5. Toons look better. How many times have I seen an NE female in WoW dressed to the nines standing in front of the AH so people could stop and gock at her?If you like cartoons, sure...Like I said before...Does EQ2 have real life character models...? NO they are CARTOONS...hello....SO they look different in EQ2...Would you want all MMOs to have the same models? 6. PvP on demand.If you consider 'on demand' as meaning 'after waiting an hour in the queue you get 5 minutes of PvP. (Varies by race and server, of course)Haven't tried WoW PVP but PVP in EQ2 is non existant unless you are on a PvP server...Sure there are arenas...EMPTY unused arenas.. 7. PvP balance and good design. The PvP experience in WoW is very intense.PvP in WoW boils down to being 95 percent decided by who has the better gear, provided both sides actually have a clue.Like I said before...skill is required in any game....Gear helps, but you can have all the top end gear and get your butt handed to you if you have no skills at playing your class. 8. Interesting, light hearted game world.I'll give you that. Some of us would prefer a game world that actually has some depth to it though. Yeah compared to the gloomy populationless EQ2 servers...WoW seems lively and vibrant 9. Hunters. Anyone can play a hunter and get by.LOL, and this is a selling feature?And obviously EQ2 has many selling features, that's why there are SOOO many new players just fighting the log in servers to start playing? 10. Cool stuff like mechano striders for gnomes.TRUE!11. Interesting cities like Thunderbluff and Stormwind. And there's more.I'm enjoying my experience in EQ2, and there are a lot of things that EQ2 does better than WoW, but I'm going back to WoW eventually.My biggest gripe about EQ2 is that I'm alone much of the time. It's more like playing Oblivion than a MMOG. My guess is that everyone but me is lvl 70.Totally untrue, at least on my server; are you actually trying to meet people and get groups or do you expect them to just fall on your head?Perhaps your server does't have a population problem, or you are oblivious to it because you always play with the same people. I cannot speak for other servers, but I can tell you Guk has a real problem with under population. Trying to put together a PUG can be a nightmare. No healers, no tanks, trying for hours to put together a group of 6 or worse a X2 raid....I have been playing since release. I have 4 level 70 toons and 2 that are nearing 70 and I can tell you with certainty that there are a whole lot less people on GUK server than there were just 12 months ago. </blockquote>I've added rebuttal's into the quote in green. Now mind you, I played WoW for a long time. I don't hate it...but most of what people try to say are selling features to it are really inaccurate. Innacurrate in your point of view, but apparently you are in a vast minority...since blizzard reports more than 7 million copies subscribed.... I can always tell the people who played WoW without even getting a single toon to the level cap...as they have so many comments that are innaccurate. Particularly the "plenty to do" one. Having leveled 8 toons to 60 in WoW (when it was the cap), I'm quite familiar with the content in WoW. By the time I leveled my 8th toon I was so intimately familiar with it that I could level to 60, completing every single available pre-raid quest in the game and max out my craft skill in under 7 days played. This is without power-levelling, grouping only to do the quests that are in instances. Yes your are omnipotant...you can always tell....you know everything there is to know about WoW...Do you know that they have 35 times the market shared that EQ2 does? HMMM....I guess according to you there are a lot of unskilled stupid gamers in teh world that should all be playing EQ2 like you because you are so smart...right? WoW does have selling features (obviously) but it's just wrong to falsely make claims about it (even if out of ignorance), especially in the forum of a competing product. It'd be a shame if people read the points here and left to play WoW considering, at the end of the day, EQ2 really does have a lot more to offer and what people "claim" in often far from the truth.WoW's success boils down to the fact that it had the names "Blizzard" and "Warcraft" on the box. This made it hugely successful; after that word of mouth was enough. Fans tend to promote what they are a fan of, irregardless of whether the product is all that good.Yeah it has nothing to do with them creating a product that will play on low end machines and on a dial up modem VERY WELL so they could market it to people in places where technology has not caught up with the culture...Broad band connections and high end gamer PCs are actually a minority in most of the world..Blizzard had sense enough to market their game to everyone with a modem and a PC...So they won the battle of the market share, which in ANY business is the batle to win...Having a good product means NOTHING if you don't have enough customers to make a profit and satisfy your shareholders... </blockquote>

sayitaintso

03-27-2007, 05:45 PM

Veet@Unrest wrote: <blockquote> The moon exploded and the gods left Norrath and the world went to heck in a basket. Everyone that starts on newbie island is a refugee of some sort, rescued from the broken world. The cities of FP and Q are the only bastions of civilization left. Lore matters in this game. </blockquote>Yes and then the mail man decided he didn't care if the queen and the overlord liked it or not, he was going to deliever his mail to both cities, reagardless of faction..then the broakers siad POO POO on opposing factions we are going to sell to whomever we want... AND then mysteriously Kelethind was discovered unbroken and the new rumors are that Kunark and Cabilis will soon be discovered still right were EQ1 left them.... Yeah....Lore matters.....LOL

DngrMou

03-27-2007, 05:52 PM

Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote> Yeah....Lore matters.....LOL </blockquote> Oh for crying out loud, just give it a rest. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

sayitaintso

03-27-2007, 06:01 PM

Youris@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote> Yeah....Lore matters.....LOL </blockquote> Oh for crying out loud, just give it a rest. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Why? This is gameplay discussion and we are discussing the game..and comaping it to other games....Don't like it when we find fault in EQ2? There is no perfect MMO they all have issues...a lot of issues however can be avoided the developer comapny takes steps to minimize it's impact on the game experience. SOE has a reputation of being very heavy handed when it comes to dealing with unsatisfied players. They are like a bully who is always right, despite the fact that so many of their players have left to go play other games including WoW..They don't listen, they don't appear to learn from their mistakes and if their own mistakes happen to cost them money they simply increase subscription rates....

einar4

03-27-2007, 06:34 PM

There is alot you can say about the quality of graphics in each game, and both have their strong and weak points. EQ2 has incredible detail and realism at the cost of poor extensibility. IMO you cannot really say that the graphics of the blizzard game are in any way poor. It is instead a highly stylized artwork that turns away from realism, and this does not at all make graphics bad. Realism is not needed for a good experience. The differences between the character models are of course more pronounced. The detail and customization that is possible in EQ2 is not even close to being equalled by the other game, the customization options are very minimal. However, this level of graphic customization allows for a much higher level of customization of armor and clothing textures which frankly EQ2 has not even come close to after 3 years of development. I think part of it is that the artists of the other game are given more free rein do design the textures, but also the level of character details makes it much more easier to produce and deploy a consistent stream of new ideas. One of the attractions of the other game that I have noticed in speaking with others is that the class dependencies and compartmentalization (tank-heal-dps) that is found in this game. When I have visited friends that are playing, they are often in groups that do not have the "holy trinity" of grouping and basically each player is free to choose whatever class they like and have a very good oppourtunity to, well, just go anywhere. Husband and Wife couples (as my friends are) are able to go through some of the most difficult instances with little issue, whereas couples can only cover 2 of the 3 needed roles in EQ2, so often find that after the solo content becomes unavailable, they have to PUG or just do the boring bats, rats, spiders, and snakes game. Are the dungeons still difficult? Well, they seem to be, though perhaps the need to have the perfect group in EQ2 could be seen as having dungeons more challenging, but it could also just be a reflection of a combat mechanics rule-set that specifically requires the Perfectly Balanced Group(tm). When I read and hear of those that claim the Blizzard game is "too easy," it is usually from people that have - in EQ2 - breezed through 26 alts to level 70 and solo places like Poet's and Nest without the slightest issue. So... when someone that has no problems with EQ2 says another game is Too Easy, then it doesn't really make for too much of a compelling argument to me. Another issue that may be a factor is the relative ease of pvp. A player is able to participate in pvp to "test the water" and step out if they like. But also, is able to jump onto the hard core pvp server where they must be on the go at all times. The game has battleground type of zones on servers for those that want it and RP servers that still allow for the limited pvp. There is a kind of freedom and ease of play there, while the purists that want wide-open PVP can easily jump onto a server to indulge that. The one thing that I do dislike about this argument is the tendency for people to go into some kind of "Brand War" thing. I mean you don't tell people they are stupid because they drink pepsi over coke, or whatever. Why the vehemence with all this. Its especially egregious when even Forum Moderators will lock threads that basically discuss, compare, and contrast this game with others. To me it also a mistake to lambaste SOE for adopting features from the other game into EQ2. It is nonsensical to have some kind of narrow attitude to recognize a useful feature in a competitor and integrate it into your game. And the end result is that with comparisons like this, the consumers of both games win. Because each company wants your money, they are going to be working on the issues that make for a better game. It comes down to personal likes and dislikes, tastes for what you like in gameplay, graphics, supportability, and ease of use, like any software. There is really no danger of that other game becoming EQ2 or of EQ2 becoming that other game. The only claims I have seen along those likes have really no merit other than the usual histrionics that one finds on these forums (e.g. "...slap in the face to..." "...destroyed my clase..." "...dumbing down the game..." etc etc ) I have my own reasons for enjoying EQ2 more, but for those that do enjoy Blizzard's offering, and I imagine that it comes down to little things rather than a magic code or bullet point that determines what draws people. I think however, that it is a disconnect in the differences between tedium, versatility, ease of play, and difficulty that might be the main difference. I think a good balance of having challenge, multiple paths both with gear upgrades and character development, aesthetic self indulgence in how you want your character to look, and the part time player indulgences that may make the difference. But discussions like these, they really are important. It is IMO a shame that they are not openly invited rather than suppressed or ignored 9 times out of 10. Because in the final analysis, when multiple products are talking to users about what they like in the competitor and dislike in their favorite brand, it really leads to a culture where all sides win.

liveja

03-27-2007, 07:40 PM

Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Yeah it has nothing to do with them creating a product that will play on low end machines and on a dial up modem VERY WELL </blockquote> When I first played WoW, I had a "low end machine". WoW played like crap on it. I was completely unable to engage in any kind of PvP; if "world PvP" was going on at Tarren Mill, I couldn't go there, because the lag upon landing was enough to make me idle for nearly 10 minutes; I couldn't take the zeppelins or boats from one continent to another, because, by the time I was able to move on the other side, the thing was already pulled so far away from the tower that I died if I jumped off; I could not, at all, go into Ironforge, because if I tried to move one step past the gates, I lagged out. That's why I played Horde; I could at least enter Orgrimmar & do things. O, yea, & did I mention taking more than 2 minutes to zone into a dungeon instance? Did I mention the flight from Moonglade to Thunderbluff taking me 20 minutes -- I actually timed it, once -- when it took anyone with a REAL computer less than 10 or so? Seriously, before you continue making this claim, you might want to tell us all exactly what a "low end machine" is, in your eyes. Mine was right at the exact minimum spec. I can assure you, that minimum spec was grossly underestimated.When I last played WoW, my raiding guild had a member that was restricted to dialup, because technology hadn't caught up to him yet. He was unable to raid with us, because his dial-up connection kept dying on him & dropping him out of the game.As I've said before: the grass isn't any greener in Azeroth. O, right, & ATM, I still don't have an "upper end" machine, but the one I do have plays EQ2 just fine, with eye candy perfectly sweet enough to make me happy, & I don't have to look at godawfully childish dead birds nailed to my shoulders.

StarryEyedElf

03-27-2007, 10:12 PM

Welcome to the Everquest 2 Gamplay board where we talk about Everquest 2 gameplay. If you'd like to compare it to other games, there are other sites who will be happy to have you. Oh, and stop bickering. Closed.