DEVS - need your help with brigands, this is out of hand [Archive] - Page 2?login=1

Firam

04-10-2007, 05:54 AM

dnice74 wrote: <blockquote><cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>this thread delivers tbh </blockquote> Then let's get back to having it deliver as I intended. Another fight this morning - another 70 brigand vs. me and a 70 fury. Both of us are fabled/legendary, I have 96 aa's, fury has 100. 70 brigand wipes us out in maybe 15 seconds. I'm done with the back and forth arguing with everyone. You don't like my attitude, I get it. I stick by everything I've said, so let's move on, because I could care less. As for hacking - it exists. Was that the case here? Don't know and don't care anymore, because there is still a huge issue here with balance. So let's leave the dead horse about hacking out of this and make it purely a balance issue, if that will keep the "THERE R N0 HAX GET OVAR IT N00B" croud happy.SO, why don't you all tell me how this is balanced? I'd love to hear a rational discussion about how this is supposed to be good-old fun for everyone who is not a brigand. Tell me how we don't know how to play our class, tell me how this is what the devs intended by rps, let's hear it. Enlighten me. If your answer is logical, I would like to discuss it more. If it is more of the mudslinging/get-a-group(what many of you ignore is that brigands and other scouts tear through groups, so that argument is even more stupid than before)/learn to play crap, I'll be dismissing it, thanks. </blockquote> On the issue of balance: I started posting in this thread with little knowledge of you, so I resorted to rational arguments and mathematical explanations for what was happening to you. After reading two weeks worth of this thread, I have come to the conclusion that you pretty much don't know how to play your class (versus rogues). Keep posting stories of L70 brigands taking down two other L70's. It excites me. I know it's possible for skilled and well geared brigands, because I do it myself as well. It doesn't prove anything. You think brigands are the only class that can win a 2v1? Especially against the vast majority of the gaming population who apparently can't grasp the fact that there are an immense amount of tools available to use in PvP, and thus play their class to maybe 50-70% potential? There is a huge different in PvP effectiveness between a player who has: A) Basic knowledge of their class. Mediocre equipment. Uses none of the vast variety of "advanced" tools/tactics available in PvP. B) Mediocre knowledge of their class. Slightly above average equipment. Uses very few of the advanced tools/tactics available. C) Average to good knowledge of their class. Good equipment. Uses some of the advanced tools/tactics available in PvP. D) Excellent knowledge of their class. Excellent equipment. Uses many of the advanced tools/tactics available. E) Absolutely complete knowledge of their class. World class equipment. Uses EVERY advanced tool/tactic available (and all on hotkey!). The combat effectiveness jumps by nearly an order of magnitude between these 5 different tiers. So which one are you? Which one is the brigand trying to kill you? Dnice, you've dug yourself an argumentative hole here in this thread that you'll probably never claw your way out of. You've proven nothing that you set out to, insulted and alienated guildmates accidentally (and hilariously), shown yourself to be reliant on arrogance and demeaning statements rather than fact, and generally made yourself out to be a fool. What's your next move?

dnice74

04-10-2007, 09:36 AM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the guy in the green doesn't want to give up his fifteen minutes of fame~ </blockquote> Fame. Yes, I dated Jessica Biel last week. Clooney and I are golfing buddies. Constructive comments, anyone? </blockquote> What'd you do? Blackout every time you made a post? Go check come of your comments, they are far from constructive. Why are you still pushing this thread, the mods have read it by now, begging people to continue to post isn't going to advance your cause any further~ </blockquote>You might as well have a sign on your head that says "please argue with me!" I told you, I'm done with it. Go away.I'm not pushing anything. I want to understand things. If you want to debate this, fine. If you're looking to troll, seek elsewhere.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 09:51 AM

<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>dnice74 wrote: <blockquote><cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>this thread delivers tbh </blockquote></blockquote> On the issue of balance: I started posting in this thread with little knowledge of you, so I resorted to rational arguments and mathematical explanations for what was happening to you. After reading two weeks worth of this thread, I have come to the conclusion that you pretty much don't know how to play your class (versus rogues). Keep posting stories of L70 brigands taking down two other L70's. It excites me. I know it's possible for skilled and well geared brigands, because I do it myself as well. It doesn't prove anything. You think brigands are the only class that can win a 2v1? Especially against the vast majority of the gaming population who apparently can't grasp the fact that there are an immense amount of tools available to use in PvP, and thus play their class to maybe 50-70% potential?While I applaud you for making more than a screenshot of a kitten here, you are still trying to baffle with bs and misdirection. All this is is a pretty way of saying "l2p". Here, let me help you by asking a more pointed question:<ul><li>Incontrovertible fact - you have zero PROOF I don't know how to play my class. What about that the other cloth classes who MAKE THE SAME COMPLAINT I DO EVERY DAY? Do I have to get quotes from better-geared casters? Do you need a rehash of people in this thread and others saying how "scouts own casters, deal with it?" In fact, I think you were one of them. Even if you weren't, please explain the glaring contradiction here - we have brigands like you arguing "learn to play" and others saying "scouts should beat casters". So if I "l2p", are you going to argue with the DOZENS of brigands who say (know) they own casters?</li><li>And another point - stop with the other classes nonsense. I'm not talking about them, am I? There is a huge different in PvP effectiveness between a player who has: A) Basic knowledge of their class. Mediocre equipment. Uses none of the vast variety of "advanced" tools/tactics available in PvP. B) Mediocre knowledge of their class. Slightly above average equipment. Uses very few of the advanced tools/tactics available. C) Average to good knowledge of their class. Good equipment. Uses some of the advanced tools/tactics available in PvP. D) Excellent knowledge of their class. Excellent equipment. Uses many of the advanced tools/tactics available. E) Absolutely complete knowledge of their class. World class equipment. Uses EVERY advanced tool/tactic available (and all on hotkey!). The combat effectiveness jumps by nearly an order of magnitude between these 5 different tiers. So which one are you? Which one is the brigand trying to kill you?</li></ul>D to E. Gear is not world-class, and I learn about my class all the time. But wait, if you KNOW I don't know how to play my class, why are you even asking me? Dnice, you've dug yourself an argumentative hole here in this thread that you'll probably never claw your way out of. You've proven nothing that you set out to, insulted and alienated guildmates accidentally (and hilariously), shown yourself to be reliant on arrogance and demeaning statements rather than fact, and generally made yourself out to be a fool. What's your next move?Much better answer, but the last paragraph is still too much "angry brigand seeks flame war" crap. Not interested. What's yours? Is it possible for you to step out of the brigand box for a moment? I doubt it. </blockquote>

Bozidar

04-10-2007, 10:29 AM

<cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then let's get back to having it deliver as I intended. Another fight this morning - another 70 brigand vs. me and a 70 fury. Both of us are fabled/legendary, I have 96 aa's, fury has 100. 70 brigand wipes us out in maybe 15 seconds. </blockquote>Post the combat log if you want people to comment.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 10:34 AM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then let's get back to having it deliver as I intended. Another fight this morning - another 70 brigand vs. me and a 70 fury. Both of us are fabled/legendary, I have 96 aa's, fury has 100. 70 brigand wipes us out in maybe 15 seconds. </blockquote>Post the combat log if you want people to comment.</blockquote>No. I'm not going to post a combat log every time this happens. One was enough, and you have heard about brigands eating up groups of 2-3 people solo several times now from several different people, including 2-3 posts ago from a brigand. I'm not lying. If you still think I am after all this, then good day to you.

Bozidar

04-10-2007, 10:46 AM

Didn't say you were lying, but if you want to have a rational discourse on what happened, then post the log.I can't conceive of any non-insulting reason why you wouldn't want to. If you turned on /log, then you should have it there.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 12:03 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Didn't say you were lying, but if you want to have a rational discourse on what happened, then post the log.I can't conceive of any non-insulting reason why you wouldn't want to. If you turned on /log, then you should have it there.</blockquote> If you all want to see it in black and white, fine. Didn't think you'd need to see MA/D/auto-attack/double-up again, but no problem, I'll turn my logs back on for the next time this happens.

Bozidar

04-10-2007, 12:09 PM

<cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you all want to see it in black and white, fine. Didn't think you'd need to see MA/D/auto-attack/double-up again, but no problem, I'll turn my logs back on for the next time this happens. </blockquote> Don't need to see a 1v1 brig vs clothy again, no. But with a druid there too? Should be a significantly different combat log if you've got two players vs one, and one is a healer. Even if he takes you out in the first 5 seconds, a druid should last significantly longer vs a brig than you, especially if he's up and aware the attack is coming.I've just been told on another forum that a T7 druid push the [Removed for Content] in of a T7 rogue.. so i'm fascinated that a brig jumped two well played toons including one that should be able to 1v1 him, and he won. I'd like to know how it's done, because it doesn't make sense.In any other tier the brigand would have to have a significant gear advantage, and a significant skill advantage to take out a fury/conj. Even if you quickly take down the conj (not an easy task when buffed by fury, compared to un-buffed by group spells), you still have to face an even conn'd fury who heals pretty [Removed for Content] well and nukes better than any other healer class.

chuckstud

04-10-2007, 12:33 PM

<cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the guy in the green doesn't want to give up his fifteen minutes of fame~ </blockquote> Fame. Yes, I dated Jessica Biel last week. Clooney and I are golfing buddies. Constructive comments, anyone? </blockquote> What'd you do? Blackout every time you made a post? Go check come of your comments, they are far from constructive. Why are you still pushing this thread, the mods have read it by now, begging people to continue to post isn't going to advance your cause any further~ </blockquote>You might as well have a sign on your head that says "please argue with me!" I told you, I'm done with it. Go away.I'm not pushing anything. I want to understand things. If you want to debate this, fine. If you're looking to troll, seek elsewhere. </blockquote>You're trolling your own thread, go figure. First off you won't post any more logs, congratulations, that's really going to get people on your side, with all that proof that is! What are you exactly trying to understand? How long you can keep this thread going? I already said it, a dev isn't going to respond no matter how long you make this thread~

Titan-X

04-10-2007, 12:47 PM

People have given you constructive opinions and you have blasted them for not saying what you want to hear. People have given you strats and you have blasted them. People have noted that nothing you have brought forth thus far has backed your point. Come back with some hard facts and maybe the tone will change, but until then....

chuckstud

04-10-2007, 12:50 PM

Doo-dad!

dnice74

04-10-2007, 12:54 PM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the guy in the green doesn't want to give up his fifteen minutes of fame~ </blockquote> Fame. Yes, I dated Jessica Biel last week. Clooney and I are golfing buddies. Constructive comments, anyone? </blockquote> What'd you do? Blackout every time you made a post? Go check come of your comments, they are far from constructive. Why are you still pushing this thread, the mods have read it by now, begging people to continue to post isn't going to advance your cause any further~ </blockquote>You might as well have a sign on your head that says "please argue with me!" I told you, I'm done with it. Go away.I'm not pushing anything. I want to understand things. If you want to debate this, fine. If you're looking to troll, seek elsewhere. </blockquote>You're trolling your own thread, go figure. First off you won't post any more logs, congratulations, that's really going to get people on your side, with all that proof that is! What are you exactly trying to understand? How long you can keep this thread going? I already said it, a dev isn't going to respond no matter how long you make this thread~ </blockquote> Bye Mr. Troll.

chuckstud

04-10-2007, 12:55 PM

dnice74

04-10-2007, 12:58 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you all want to see it in black and white, fine. Didn't think you'd need to see MA/D/auto-attack/double-up again, but no problem, I'll turn my logs back on for the next time this happens. </blockquote> Don't need to see a 1v1 brig vs clothy again, no. But with a druid there too? Should be a significantly different combat log if you've got two players vs one, and one is a healer. Even if he takes you out in the first 5 seconds, a druid should last significantly longer vs a brig than you, especially if he's up and aware the attack is coming.I've just been told on another forum that a T7 druid push the [Removed for Content] in of a T7 rogue.. so i'm fascinated that a brig jumped two well played toons including one that should be able to 1v1 him, and he won. I'd like to know how it's done, because it doesn't make sense.In any other tier the brigand would have to have a significant gear advantage, and a significant skill advantage to take out a fury/conj. Even if you quickly take down the conj (not an easy task when buffed by fury, compared to un-buffed by group spells), you still have to face an even conn'd fury who heals pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] well and nukes better than any other healer class.</blockquote>It probably fascinates you because you are not T7 and don't see it happen all the time. That is not a slam, nastiness or otherwise, so please don't read it as an insult. But I see it often. It will happen again, and the second it does, I will have a log ready for you.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 01:06 PM

Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>People have given you constructive opinions and you have blasted them for not saying what you want to hear. People have given you strats and you have blasted them. People have noted that nothing you have brought forth thus far has backed your point. Come back with some hard facts and maybe the tone will change, but until then....</blockquote> Nope. I have blasted the trolls and debated the points I didn't agree with. What have I heard? Learn to play, scouts own casters, and get a group. Strats??? I'm the only one who has talked about strategy, but you can feel free to provide one if you like. I'm all ears. Dead serious. Still waiting on a response to the PM, by the way. I'd almost bet 100 plat your 70 mains are fp/exile, so I'm taking what you say with a grain of salt. But we can discuss that privately, can't we?

Firam

04-10-2007, 01:51 PM

ffs, give it up. reroll. scouts are going to destroy clothies in every single MMO from here until the end of time. reroll. it's the circle of life. it's the way it is. reroll. don't fight it. you won't get very far. reroll. 200-post threads full of spite and troll-slime aren't going to change anyone's mind. reroll you are doomed to failure. reroll into something that doesn't [Removed for Content] you off every time you log into it. reroll. just.... reroll. and let it go. let it goooooo....

dnice74

04-10-2007, 02:30 PM

<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>ffs, give it up. reroll. scouts are going to destroy clothies in every single MMO from here until the end of time. reroll. it's the circle of life. it's the way it is. reroll. don't fight it. you won't get very far. reroll. 200-post threads full of spite and troll-slime aren't going to change anyone's mind. reroll you are doomed to failure. reroll into something that doesn't [Removed for Content] you off every time you log into it. reroll. just.... reroll. and let it go. let it goooooo.... </blockquote>So let's see, I asked you several pointed questions, and this is your response? Wow, thanks. With a counter-argument like that, you just prove that you are another brigand out to protect his leetness. Next.

Ibunubi

04-10-2007, 03:11 PM

<cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>People have given you constructive opinions and you have blasted them for not saying what you want to hear. People have given you strats and you have blasted them. People have noted that nothing you have brought forth thus far has backed your point. Come back with some hard facts and maybe the tone will change, but until then....</blockquote> Nope. I have blasted the trolls and debated the points I didn't agree with. What have I heard? Learn to play, scouts own casters, and get a group. Strats??? I'm the only one who has talked about strategy, but you can feel free to provide one if you like. I'm all ears. Dead serious. Still waiting on a response to the PM, by the way. I'd almost bet 100 plat your 70 mains are fp/exile, so I'm taking what you say with a grain of salt. But we can discuss that privately, can't we?</blockquote>You're trolling your own thread. You haven't agreed with anybody because you want brigands nerfed more. Brigands are not the only class that can take out more than 1 person at a time.Yes, I can see how a brigand was able to take you and fury down. I'm sure the log went "Brigand jumps fury, kills him. Conjuror too busy screaming 'What the [Removed for Content] how'd he do that' while he's killing him with the smaller CA's he has left." But wait, there is no log, is there?

Bozidar

04-10-2007, 03:24 PM

Can we all just shut up and let this drop until the log is provided for a 2v1 fury/conj vs brigand?I'm sure it happened, but questioning him on what he did is just going to provoke another [Removed for Content] fest back and forth and frankly, i'm pretty sure this thread has had enough of those.How a brigand solo'd a clothy quickly isn't questionable. Let's see how he takes out a group including a druid in 15 seconds.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 04:22 PM

<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>People have given you constructive opinions and you have blasted them for not saying what you want to hear. People have given you strats and you have blasted them. People have noted that nothing you have brought forth thus far has backed your point. Come back with some hard facts and maybe the tone will change, but until then....</blockquote> Nope. I have blasted the trolls and debated the points I didn't agree with. What have I heard? Learn to play, scouts own casters, and get a group. Strats??? I'm the only one who has talked about strategy, but you can feel free to provide one if you like. I'm all ears. Dead serious. Still waiting on a response to the PM, by the way. I'd almost bet 100 plat your 70 mains are fp/exile, so I'm taking what you say with a grain of salt. But we can discuss that privately, can't we?</blockquote>You're trolling your own thread. You haven't agreed with anybody because you want brigands nerfed more. Brigands are not the only class that can take out more than 1 person at a time.No. I'm talking about brigands because they are one of the most op classes in the game(against casters), and to turn this into the "let's discuss all op classes thread" would make it even more of an abomination than it is. You want to talk about other op classes? Go do it elsewhere. Yes, I can see how a brigand was able to take you and fury down. I'm sure the log went "Brigand jumps fury, kills him. Conjuror too busy screaming 'What the [I cannot control my vocabulary] how'd he do that' while he's killing him with the smaller CA's he has left." But wait, there is no log, is there?Trolling. Dismissed. </blockquote>

Ibunubi

04-10-2007, 06:45 PM

It's not trolling. It makes fun of you, yes, but that a strategy a brigand can do if he gets the jump unnoticed. But since you're done posting logs after the only one you posted was legit, I guess you're not really proving your claims.I'm not turning it into a discuss OP classes. If I was, I would have said more than just a statement that brigands aren't the only ones. You can't say it's off-topic either because you, yourself, can't decide on your stance whether you want brigands nerfed or brigands hack. Neither of which, you're providing information for.You want people to take you seriously? Then provide logs and screenshots of these brigand hacks. In fact, do it with your next post.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 07:21 PM

<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not trolling. It makes fun of you, yes, but that a strategy a brigand can do if he gets the jump unnoticed. But since you're done posting logs after the only one you posted was legit, I guess you're not really proving your claims.I'm not turning it into a discuss OP classes. If I was, I would have said more than just a statement that brigands aren't the only ones. You can't say it's off-topic either because you, yourself, can't decide on your stance whether you want brigands nerfed or brigands hack. Neither of which, you're providing information for.You want people to take you seriously? Then provide logs and screenshots of these brigand hacks. In fact, do it with your next post.</blockquote> I have precious little patience for people who aren't paying attention, and if you expect respect for your point of views after you are still running your mouth with insults, then grats - you're a fool. One more time - I never said I was done posting logs. Pay attention or go away. Go re-read what I said in the last page, [Removed for Content]. One more time - I said forget the hacks. If they are using them, then eventually they will get caught. I have repeatedly said that I hear what people are saying about how this is just an AA-line combo of theirs. Unlike you, I have been paying attention. One more time - Brigands know they eat scouts, I have screenshots of brigands saying they should be toned down, you have at least 4 people in this thread (including a brigand) saying that them eating up 2-3 people of equal gear solo happens all the time. I don't want them gimped, and if they have good gear and skill, good for them, let them be beasts. But others who have good gear and equal skill have no chance against this class, and I don't agree with that. If you want to call that "crying for a nerf", then get bent. I've got news for you people - if certain classes weren't overpowered, conjurors would still be one-shotting tanks and assassins would still decap for 7500+. Imbalances exist, and I don't care if the other 149999 people who play this game come on to call me a tool. If I see bs, I'm going to rail against it. If you're done with the insults, feel free to debate your stance. If you're going to keep making me repeat myself because you are too lazy to read this thread, or if you're going to make jokes about how I just sat there while a brigand ate up one of my teammates while I whined, then go the f away.

Qanil

04-10-2007, 07:28 PM

if you expect respect for your point of views after you are still running your mouth with insults, then grats - you're a foolOne more time - I never said I was done posting logs. Pay attention or go away. Go re-read what I said in the last page, [Removed for Content].So, basically what you're saying is that you, yourself are a fool, and that you don't expect respect towards yourself because you, yourself are slinging insults.The people that are trying to discuss this with you, have shown an admirable level of restraint. However, you aren't eating your own dogfood. You need to show THEM the same respect and look at it from their point of view.

Greeen-_-Ranger

04-10-2007, 07:40 PM

Famine is a master of the brigand class. I HATE famine, but the man is damned good at what he does. I currently know of very few people who can beat him more than 50% of the time. Let alone a conjuror. Famine can mow through tanks, healers, casters. I have also seen him die. He routinely throws himself into reckless situations like 2 and 3 or more with himself solo, and I've seen him lose. You unfortunately are seeing him on those times when he hits every single attack with perfect execution. I thought he was hacking, I thought he was cheating, but guess what, thanks to you and this thread, I've figured it out, and now that I hit level 70, I will begin to plow through people, hopefully almost in a way knidof sort as good as Famine, who is a beast. It's not the class, it's the player. Thank you wreakinn for that combat log, and to my fellow brigands from around the pvp globe, I've learned alot about my class, most importantly that I needed to study it a heck of alot more than I had before, I now know that to own in pvp, I have to learn every attack, learn what the consequences of casting the wrong ones at the wrong time will be, and also of not casting them at the right time. Most in my regular pvp groups would probaly agree, since this debat started 2 weeks ago (I was like level 62ish then?) I have become much more masterful at my playing of a brigand, and I hope in a few months, I will be 80% of the beast Famine is. So, with that said, thanks again, I'll see you in game shortly (I'm starting to get gear, and will soon be comparable in equipment wise, so I'll show you that it dont take famine to beat you.) Also, when you have beat me, it's been in a 'duel' situation, which I am no longer doing. I am exile on a pvp server to kill, not to play nice. So when you see your health drop to 80% 60% 10% dead in 3 seconds or so, check the logs or look up, I will probaly be near you.

Ibunubi

04-10-2007, 07:49 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>No. I'm not going to post a combat log every time this happens. One was enough, and you have heard about brigands eating up groups of 2-3 people solo several times now from several different people, including 2-3 posts ago from a brigand. I'm not lying. If you still think I am after all this, then good day to you. </blockquote>This is where you said you were done. Go ahead and look, it's just one page over.Point out the insult in my post you just quoted above. None? Okay. Onward then...Grats, you replied to me without a single log or screenshot. Therefore, you're trolling your own thread because not even you can provide anything useful to it.

chuckstud

04-10-2007, 10:00 PM

Don't feel bad Pett, he dismisses everyone with a logical responses for a troll because they make him look stupid for even making this thread~

Ibunubi

04-10-2007, 10:04 PM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't feel bad Pett, he dismisses everyone with a logical responses for a troll because they make him look stupid for even making this thread~ </blockquote>It's sad, really. <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

chuckstud

04-10-2007, 10:19 PM

Not only have you been a hypocrite from your first post, as you can clearly see from 6 pages of your dribble, but you discredit all accounts of people disagreeing with you and continue to "debate" back~ Give it up already, if the mods have seen this by now, they have seen it, one log isn't going to change anything though~ Wreakinn@Vox wrote: "This is not a grey issue, I do not want to hear debate, I do not want a flame thread, and I am not whining. But I wanted to bring this to their attention and I know they read the boards.""Tell me something Zeebs, why has my inferior [Removed for Content] beaten you solo? With your gear and the fact that your class is stupid op against mine, you should be ashamed. But flame on, kiddo.""Hi. Speak the English? In big, pretty bold letters: I SAID I WOULD WHEN I GET THEM NEXT TIME. I HAVE NO INTEREST IN KEEPING THINGS SECRET, AND I HAVE NO AGENDA AGAINST YOUR SPECIAL LITTLE CLASS. In fact, I want a combat log, because even if it proves there is no hack, it will prove that your class is still retardedly op(at least against casters, and spare me the r-p-s bs cause I'm not going to listen). You should PRAY this is only a hack. Finally: this isn't just me. Did you read Lazyfrog's post? I doubt it. Did you see the part where I said they were doing this to plate tanks?""Come to my level so that at least we are on the same page; I have absolutely no respect for you. But it's alright, if you keep up the mantra of "he's a whiner! don't listen to him! please don't nerf us again! nooooooo!" then maybe you'll sleep better tonight. "".....and this is the garbage I have seen from you in other threads. Don't start. Please.""I love it when people think they are being subtle. Getting a little frustrated? Awwwww. Debating 101: insulting your opponent does not make your case any stronger; it only serves to make you look like a simpleton.""Fact: you contributed nothing to that last thread that you are referring to. And if it was about who "won" the argument? They (correctly) nerfed decap (which was hitting for 7k+). You lose. Bye. Fact(s): You like to argue, and always show up in threads that I'm in to test your prowess. Unfortunately, you're not very good at it, Boz. Throw in the fact that your temper makes you almost incoherent at times, and your threads become downright painful to read. You are one of those people who, even when faced with superior evidence to the contrary, will keep spewing the same broken arguments - and you're already repeating points that I've debated here. Oh, and look, there are some insults, too. Exact same bs I saw in the GU 31 thread. It was wrong there, and you're still wrong now. Oh, wait - did you forget they nerfed decap?I know your style, and unless you have something new, different, or logical, I'm not going to debate with you. Unfortuantely, I don't seem to be able to ignore trolls, but I'm certainly not going to waste anymore of my time with your nonsense, either. Oh, and one more for the road: While I'm not exceptionally intelligent, I am smarter than you, Boz. Run along now and let the big boys talk, k? Fact: You are (still) not T7, and I feel you have nothing useful to add to this thread. But thanks for the info on how to pull combat logs. You're dismissed.""Anyway - you're a poorly geared lvl 64, and I bet all those people were level 70. Your examples are irrelevant, so stop trying to turn this into "wreakinn's a whiner!" Bring all of your brigand buddies here and complain, too. I could care less. There is something wrong here, and I intend to call attention to it.""Wrong. I demean the people who are insulting me, which so far has been about every single person in this thread, including you. So in case you feel left out - go level that crappy toon and I'll see you in barren. I think I've gone up against you, actually. You might want to add conjurors to that list of classes who have owned you in two seconds.""[Removed for Content]. The answer isn't "go group!" So if I run into a brigand using this hack/macro, I should go get a tank? Just go away with this crap."

dnice74

04-10-2007, 10:58 PM

<cite>Qanil wrote:</cite><blockquote>if you expect respect for your point of views after you are still running your mouth with insults, then grats - you're a foolOne more time - I never said I was done posting logs. Pay attention or go away. Go re-read what I said in the last page, [Removed for Content].So, basically what you're saying is that you, yourself are a fool, and that you don't expect respect towards yourself because you, yourself are slinging insults.The people that are trying to discuss this with you, have shown an admirable level of restraint. However, you aren't eating your own dogfood. You need to show THEM the same respect and look at it from their point of view.</blockquote> You people are utterly fascinating. Time after time I respond to the insults, but yet I'm the bad guy. Whatever. When people talk about the issue, I have talked about the issue.If you have anything to add to the thread, do so or go away. Enough with the bandwagon bashing, I'm not interested in your opinion of me in the slightest.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 11:02 PM

<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>No. I'm not going to post a combat log every time this happens. One was enough, and you have heard about brigands eating up groups of 2-3 people solo several times now from several different people, including 2-3 posts ago from a brigand. I'm not lying. If you still think I am after all this, then good day to you. </blockquote>This is where you said you were done. Go ahead and look, it's just one page over.Point out the insult in my post you just quoted above. None? Okay. Onward then...Grats, you replied to me without a single log or screenshot. Therefore, you're trolling your own thread because not even you can provide anything useful to it.</blockquote>Man you people must be bored. You're right, saying I just sat there and whined while a brigand rolled through us is a compliment. You're kidding me, right? Brother. Secondly, I quite clearly stated that I would post a log when I got one, but you are too busy trying to keep the flames going, aren't you? I guess I need to get back to saying "dismissed" and ignoring the trolls. Or the mods can lock this now. None of you are going to admit they are op, because most of the people who are arguing are scouts themselves, or just busy trying to keep the flames going.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 11:07 PM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not only have you been a hypocrite from your first post, as you can clearly see from 6 pages of your dribble, but you discredit all accounts of people disagreeing with you and continue to "debate" back~ Give it up already, if the mods have seen this by now, they have seen it, one log isn't going to change anything though~ </blockquote>Faabio, everyone knows your troll status. You never ever ever ever add anything to a debate, period, but you're quick to join the haters. Give it up? Why, because you said so? And people think I'm an ego-maniac. Are you too being forced to post here by evil forces? Good grief. However, thanks for the posts. All they show is how I flame back at the haters. Those were responses, not me coming out of the blue with flames. Do you have anything to say about why brigands are not op? Anything at all? Until you do, I'm going to go back to "bye Mr. Troll".

Ibunubi

04-11-2007, 12:50 AM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>No. I'm not going to post a combat log every time this happens. One was enough, and you have heard about brigands eating up groups of 2-3 people solo several times now from several different people, including 2-3 posts ago from a brigand. I'm not lying. If you still think I am after all this, then good day to you. </blockquote>This is where you said you were done. Go ahead and look, it's just one page over.Point out the insult in my post you just quoted above. None? Okay. Onward then...Grats, you replied to me without a single log or screenshot. Therefore, you're trolling your own thread because not even you can provide anything useful to it.</blockquote>Man you people must be bored. You're right, saying I just sat there and whined while a brigand rolled through us is a compliment. You're kidding me, right? Brother. Secondly, I quite clearly stated that I would post a log when I got one, but you are too busy trying to keep the flames going, aren't you? I guess I need to get back to saying "dismissed" and ignoring the trolls. Or the mods can lock this now. None of you are going to admit they are op, because most of the people who are arguing are scouts themselves, or just busy trying to keep the flames going. </blockquote>Right. So... Either you're not PvPing, or what you're claiming isn't happening. Whichever one it is, this thread is a whine-fest. I'm not a scout. I used to be, but then it wasn't challenging for me. You're calling brigands overpowered because they can kill a leather class and cloth class in the same fight, but you neglect the fact that others classes can do just as much as a brigand, and that being aligned with a city, you don't fight against your own classes as much as you do with the evil classes.Faabio may be a troll, but he speaks the truth well. Don't be mad the Logic Train left without you.

dnice74

04-11-2007, 12:57 AM

<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>No. I'm not going to post a combat log every time this happens. One was enough, and you have heard about brigands eating up groups of 2-3 people solo several times now from several different people, including 2-3 posts ago from a brigand. I'm not lying. If you still think I am after all this, then good day to you. </blockquote>This is where you said you were done. Go ahead and look, it's just one page over.Point out the insult in my post you just quoted above. None? Okay. Onward then...Grats, you replied to me without a single log or screenshot. Therefore, you're trolling your own thread because not even you can provide anything useful to it.</blockquote>Man you people must be bored. You're right, saying I just sat there and whined while a brigand rolled through us is a compliment. You're kidding me, right? Brother. Secondly, I quite clearly stated that I would post a log when I got one, but you are too busy trying to keep the flames going, aren't you? I guess I need to get back to saying "dismissed" and ignoring the trolls. Or the mods can lock this now. None of you are going to admit they are op, because most of the people who are arguing are scouts themselves, or just busy trying to keep the flames going. </blockquote>Right. So... Either you're not PvPing, or what you're claiming isn't happening. Whichever one it is, this thread is a whine-fest. I'm not a scout. I used to be, but then it wasn't challenging for me. You're calling brigands overpowered because they can kill a leather class and cloth class in the same fight, but you neglect the fact that others classes can do just as much as a brigand, and that being aligned with a city, you don't fight against your own classes as much as you do with the evil classes.Faabio may be a troll, but he speaks the truth well. Don't be mad the Logic Train left without you.</blockquote>Nope. I'm overlooking nothing; I've spoken to all of these points a lot. Not going to do so again, especially for someone who is too lazy to look back one freaking page. You're a troll, too. Dismissed.

dnice74

04-11-2007, 01:05 AM

Amirus@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Famine is a master of the brigand class. I HATE famine, but the man is damned good at what he does. I currently know of very few people who can beat him more than 50% of the time. Let alone a conjuror. Famine can mow through tanks, healers, casters. I have also seen him die. He routinely throws himself into reckless situations like 2 and 3 or more with himself solo, and I've seen him lose. You unfortunately are seeing him on those times when he hits every single attack with perfect execution. I thought he was hacking, I thought he was cheating, but guess what, thanks to you and this thread, I've figured it out, and now that I hit level 70, I will begin to plow through people, hopefully almost in a way knidof sort as good as Famine, who is a beast. It's not the class, it's the player. Thank you wreakinn for that combat log, and to my fellow brigands from around the pvp globe, I've learned alot about my class, most importantly that I needed to study it a heck of alot more than I had before, I now know that to own in pvp, I have to learn every attack, learn what the consequences of casting the wrong ones at the wrong time will be, and also of not casting them at the right time. Most in my regular pvp groups would probaly agree, since this debat started 2 weeks ago (I was like level 62ish then?) I have become much more masterful at my playing of a brigand, and I hope in a few months, I will be 80% of the beast Famine is. So, with that said, thanks again, I'll see you in game shortly (I'm starting to get gear, and will soon be comparable in equipment wise, so I'll show you that it dont take famine to beat you.) Also, when you have beat me, it's been in a 'duel' situation, which I am no longer doing. I am exile on a pvp server to kill, not to play nice. So when you see your health drop to 80% 60% 10% dead in 3 seconds or so, check the logs or look up, I will probaly be near you.</blockquote>I know he's good, I've said so myself. I don't mind the guy when he's not being a pos, he's not so bad if you talk to him one on one. My point was never that he sucks, it's that what they do is impossible to counter. I'm sure you'll get me.....someday. I like the bravado, even if you have a lot longer way to go than you think. Glad you took something positive away from this.

Ibunubi

04-11-2007, 01:13 AM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>No. I'm not going to post a combat log every time this happens. One was enough, and you have heard about brigands eating up groups of 2-3 people solo several times now from several different people, including 2-3 posts ago from a brigand. I'm not lying. If you still think I am after all this, then good day to you. </blockquote>This is where you said you were done. Go ahead and look, it's just one page over.Point out the insult in my post you just quoted above. None? Okay. Onward then...Grats, you replied to me without a single log or screenshot. Therefore, you're trolling your own thread because not even you can provide anything useful to it.</blockquote>Man you people must be bored. You're right, saying I just sat there and whined while a brigand rolled through us is a compliment. You're kidding me, right? Brother. Secondly, I quite clearly stated that I would post a log when I got one, but you are too busy trying to keep the flames going, aren't you? I guess I need to get back to saying "dismissed" and ignoring the trolls. Or the mods can lock this now. None of you are going to admit they are op, because most of the people who are arguing are scouts themselves, or just busy trying to keep the flames going. </blockquote>Right. So... Either you're not PvPing, or what you're claiming isn't happening. Whichever one it is, this thread is a whine-fest. I'm not a scout. I used to be, but then it wasn't challenging for me. You're calling brigands overpowered because they can kill a leather class and cloth class in the same fight, but you neglect the fact that others classes can do just as much as a brigand, and that being aligned with a city, you don't fight against your own classes as much as you do with the evil classes.Faabio may be a troll, but he speaks the truth well. Don't be mad the Logic Train left without you.</blockquote>Nope. I'm overlooking nothing; I've spoken to all of these points a lot. Not going to do so again, especially for someone who is too lazy to look back one freaking page. You're a troll, too. Dismissed. </blockquote>Still no combat log or screenshot. Even the Devs need that information~

dnice74

04-11-2007, 01:17 AM

<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>No. I'm not going to post a combat log every time this happens. One was enough, and you have heard about brigands eating up groups of 2-3 people solo several times now from several different people, including 2-3 posts ago from a brigand. I'm not lying. If you still think I am after all this, then good day to you. </blockquote>This is where you said you were done. Go ahead and look, it's just one page over.Point out the insult in my post you just quoted above. None? Okay. Onward then...Grats, you replied to me without a single log or screenshot. Therefore, you're trolling your own thread because not even you can provide anything useful to it.</blockquote>Man you people must be bored. You're right, saying I just sat there and whined while a brigand rolled through us is a compliment. You're kidding me, right? Brother. Secondly, I quite clearly stated that I would post a log when I got one, but you are too busy trying to keep the flames going, aren't you? I guess I need to get back to saying "dismissed" and ignoring the trolls. Or the mods can lock this now. None of you are going to admit they are op, because most of the people who are arguing are scouts themselves, or just busy trying to keep the flames going. </blockquote>Right. So... Either you're not PvPing, or what you're claiming isn't happening. Whichever one it is, this thread is a whine-fest. I'm not a scout. I used to be, but then it wasn't challenging for me. You're calling brigands overpowered because they can kill a leather class and cloth class in the same fight, but you neglect the fact that others classes can do just as much as a brigand, and that being aligned with a city, you don't fight against your own classes as much as you do with the evil classes.Faabio may be a troll, but he speaks the truth well. Don't be mad the Logic Train left without you.</blockquote>Nope. I'm overlooking nothing; I've spoken to all of these points a lot. Not going to do so again, especially for someone who is too lazy to look back one freaking page. You're a troll, too. Dismissed. </blockquote>Still no combat log or screenshot. Even the Devs need that information~</blockquote>Seriously, are your parents brother and sister? I already said - when I get one, you'll get it. I'm not dropping the things I'm working on to satisfy your moronic desires. You make Faabio look like a freaking Rhodes scholar, ffs. This is my last response to your trolling nonsense until you have something intelligent to add. Go buy a kitten if you need some attention, I've had enough of you.

Vanni

04-11-2007, 01:46 AM

to your question, i dont believe that brigands are as overpowered as you state rather any dps class that surprises another and gets to execute their cas in their preferred order will almost always be succesful. if a wizard had snuck up on you and fusioned you to the ground before you saw him the fight woulda prolly been the same, to that end i think track is more overpowered that the class itselfif you and the fury had surprised the brig im sure it would ended different; critical mistakes like attacking you before the fury were made. you have described effective means to counter the most basic brig attack detailed in the combat log you posted, but you popped stoneskin after double-up, never used freedom of the mind/action or a heal potionthe sailwind line effectively makes double up a triple up but if you had survivied that first onslaught by blocking bigger attacks with stoneskin, using freedom of the mind to prevent the back attack from doubling, or even sacrificing the pet as a big heal/save [Removed for Content] the brig is left staring at some long cool downsim not saying you suck or im better than you, hell ive lost fights i had no business losing before mostly because i was surprised and didnt react fast enoughas far as macros go, i needed two peoples help and 10 mins to make a macro that just says dispatch in the raid channel so its just not part of my pvp game

Bozidar

04-11-2007, 02:40 AM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Secondly, I quite clearly stated that I would post a log when I got one, but you are too busy trying to keep the flames going, aren't you? </blockquote>I'll paraphrase, but you did say to him: 'I never said i wouldn't post another log, not once, go look it up". And you're wrong, you did say it. When i challenged you on that, you said that you would indeed post a log.Just clarifying.Also, there have been a number of occassions where a non-attacking post on this thread has resulted in an attack from you. Don't try to deny it. So pretty please, with sugar on top, drop the whole "i respond to attacks so i'm the bad guy" violin song. No one's listening to it, or buying the record either.

dnice74

04-11-2007, 10:38 AM

Vanni@Vox wrote: <blockquote>to your question, i dont believe that brigands are as overpowered as you state rather any dps class that surprises another and gets to execute their cas in their preferred order will almost always be succesful. if a wizard had snuck up on you and fusioned you to the ground before you saw him the fight woulda prolly been the same, to that end i think track is more overpowered that the class itselfif you and the fury had surprised the brig im sure it would ended different; critical mistakes like attacking you before the fury were made. you have described effective means to counter the most basic brig attack detailed in the combat log you posted, but you popped stoneskin after double-up, never used freedom of the mind/action or a heal potionthe sailwind line effectively makes double up a triple up but if you had survivied that first onslaught by blocking bigger attacks with stoneskin, using freedom of the mind to prevent the back attack from doubling, or even sacrificing the pet as a big heal/save [I cannot control my vocabulary] the brig is left staring at some long cool downsim not saying you suck or im better than you, hell ive lost fights i had no business losing before mostly because i was surprised and didnt react fast enoughas far as macros go, i needed two peoples help and 10 mins to make a macro that just says dispatch in the raid channel so its just not part of my pvp game</blockquote>Well cool, it's the brigand in question. Do you have a combat log of that fight to shut these people up?Vanni, stoneskin is great against wizards and warlocks, next to useless against scouts. I've popped it before the fight, in the middle.....it doesn't matter. It does not keep me up against sailwind + double-up; you are far from the only brigand to annihilate me like that. Secondly, I was trying to use a heal, but didn't have time, got interrupted and killed within 3 seconds anyway. A 1k heal that takes 2 seconds to cast isn't going to save me, either. Nor is a 593 pointer when 7k+ is being dumped on you in 2.5 seconds. Now - I do admit that you got the jump on us, and that partially contributed to the slaughter. Would the fight have been a little different? Sure, it probably would have lasted a little longer. But I've fought in group pvp, despite what these people think. Once the brigand gets on me, it's over. However, people have apparently forgotten Lazyfrog's example about 15 pages (whatever) ago where he (a swash with a full set of PvP gear) and a fury were ready for an attack and the end result was ultimately the same. The fury there used an ENTIRE BAR OF MANA keeping him up. If a swash can't stand up to that kind of pounding, what chance will a caster have? None, zero, zip. Furthermore, burning through that on me didn't slow you down from killing a lvl 70 fury in the same manner, so your point about cool-downs doesn't quite add up here. Nothing personal, I'm glad you posted. If I had popped stoneskin, had a signet of life, a heal potion (freedom of mind wouldn't really have mattered here, running from brigands is a deathwish), gotten off an AA heal, AND sacrificed the pet, then yes, I might have survived long enough to actually do something. Clicking all of those buttons/casting those spells would have been about 4 seconds, give or take. I don't have that even if I am ready for it. Oh, and one last thing - yes, forced crit fusion will instakill me, but first of all, the cap is coming soon, and getting out of range in the 5 seconds it takes them to cast it is a hell of a lot easier. No one should have 90% hits anyway. Secondly, if it isn't a forced crit, I can easily live through a fusion, pop a stoneskin and get a heal off because wizards' cast times are longer. Thanks for posting.

dnice74

04-11-2007, 10:50 AM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Secondly, I quite clearly stated that I would post a log when I got one, but you are too busy trying to keep the flames going, aren't you? </blockquote>I'll paraphrase, but you did say to him: 'I never said i wouldn't post another log, not once, go look it up". And you're wrong, you did say it. When i challenged you on that, you said that you would indeed post a log.Just clarifying.Also, there have been a number of occassions where a non-attacking post on this thread has resulted in an attack from you. Don't try to deny it. So pretty please, with sugar on top, drop the whole "i respond to attacks so i'm the bad guy" violin song. No one's listening to it, or buying the record either.</blockquote>Holy semantics, batman. If he read what I wrote 2 posts later, he wouldn't have even opened his mouth(fingers?). You have been unusually rational the past couple of pages, but I guess it's Hyde time, huh? Don't presume to lecture me, especially when you are wrong. The overwhelmingly vast majority of the time, I do not bite unless prodded, lectured, or flamed, period. If I listened to you people, you have me believing that I reply to posts of "Hi Wreakinn" with "DIE MF!!!" Think what you want, villify me if you want, ignore the same things I've written 40 times over, but I have to learn to ignore stupid [Removed for Content] comments like these. If you're not directly talking about this topic, kindly go away.

chuckstud

04-11-2007, 12:20 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not only have you been a hypocrite from your first post, as you can clearly see from 6 pages of your dribble, but you discredit all accounts of people disagreeing with you and continue to "debate" back~ Give it up already, if the mods have seen this by now, they have seen it, one log isn't going to change anything though~ </blockquote>Faabio, everyone knows your troll status. You never ever ever ever add anything to a debate, period, but you're quick to join the haters. Give it up? Why, because you said so? And people think I'm an ego-maniac. Are you too being forced to post here by evil forces? Good grief. However, thanks for the posts. All they show is how I flame back at the haters. Those were responses, not me coming out of the blue with flames. Do you have anything to say about why brigands are not op? Anything at all? Until you do, I'm going to go back to "bye Mr. Troll". </blockquote> Hmm, well thus far I've said nothing that isn't the truth, either you just can't comprehend anything that doesn't follow your own views or you just don't want to admit someone is right besides you~ Brigs used to be overpowered, they got fixed, they still own people, you're a cloth wearer, you got owned... I don't know how much more information you want me to tell you, you posted a log where the brigand completely killed you and your friend, I will acknowledge that, but thus far you have one log to 20 pages of you complaining about brigs without any proof to back up your claims. You can't expect people to take you seriously, even if you just are responding to "troll responses" half those "troll responses" have valid points, the thing that irks you though is that they disagree with what you are trying to preach, give them some proof and maybe someone will believe you. Until then you might as well prove that yetis exist while you're at it~

dnice74

04-11-2007, 01:26 PM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>chuckstud wrote: </blockquote> Hmm, well thus far I've said nothing that isn't the truth, either you just can't comprehend anything that doesn't follow your own views or you just don't want to admit someone is right besides you~ Brigs used to be overpowered, they got fixed, they still own people, you're a cloth wearer, you got owned... I don't know how much more information you want me to tell you, you posted a log where the brigand completely killed you and your friend, I will acknowledge that, but thus far you have one log to 20 pages of you complaining about brigs without any proof to back up your claims. You can't expect people to take you seriously, even if you just are responding to "troll responses" half those "troll responses" have valid points, the thing that irks you though is that they disagree with what you are trying to preach, give them some proof and maybe someone will believe you. Until then you might as well prove that yetis exist while you're at it~ </blockquote>They got fixed? I'm curious, please tell me how track/evac/godly pvp burst dps combo that refreshes every minute/snare/in-combat run speed/stun/ranged attacks/root/stealth/pets/chainwearer mitigation is "fixed", exactly. I have very few ways to beat a good brigand. I'm surprised that I've killed as many of them as I have, to be honest. Here are the only ways it's possible: 1. they don't know how to play the class. 2. they have inferior gear. 3. they get cocky and just try to auto-attack me to death 4. I see them coming from a loooong way off, they say "hahahah stupid clothy whatever", and resist half my attacks and I barely take them down before almost dying myself. How often do I sneak up on them? When they are afk. Yeah, a guy wearing a robe with 2 pets floating around is really hard to miss. How often do you find yourself jumped by a scout? Frequently. And I'll send an exploding froglok to the first person who says "0mg bfly totems!!!" I carry over 100 charges.I have listened to the valid topics. Do you hear me talking about hacks? Did you see me flame Vannin needlessly? No, we discussed what he said - but you'll notice he wasn't being a dick. I even debate with the trolls, so I really wish you people would quit parroting that, as well. Go look at my post to Syslik the Non-PvP Lord. Debated everything he said, valid or otherwise. What you people don't want to admit is that YOU are the ones not paying attention here, so quit [Removed for Content] repeating yourselves. Do you have anything more than r-p-s nonsense(which was beaten up long before you got here), or accusations vaguely relating to yetis? Ultimately, you didn't offer much in the way of debate, strategies, or pretty much any logical thought process. The only reason you got this much of a response is because I'm on my lunch break.

Titan-X

04-11-2007, 01:54 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>chuckstud wrote: </blockquote> Hmm, well thus far I've said nothing that isn't the truth, either you just can't comprehend anything that doesn't follow your own views or you just don't want to admit someone is right besides you~ Brigs used to be overpowered, they got fixed, they still own people, you're a cloth wearer, you got owned... I don't know how much more information you want me to tell you, you posted a log where the brigand completely killed you and your friend, I will acknowledge that, but thus far you have one log to 20 pages of you complaining about brigs without any proof to back up your claims. You can't expect people to take you seriously, even if you just are responding to "troll responses" half those "troll responses" have valid points, the thing that irks you though is that they disagree with what you are trying to preach, give them some proof and maybe someone will believe you. Until then you might as well prove that yetis exist while you're at it~ </blockquote>They got fixed? I'm curious, please tell me how track/evac/godly pvp burst dps combo that refreshes every minute/snare/in-combat run speed/stun/ranged attacks/root/stealth/pets/chainwearer mitigation is "fixed", exactly. I have very few ways to beat a good brigand. I'm surprised that I've killed as many of them as I have, to be honest. Here are the only ways it's possible: 1. they don't know how to play the class. 2. they have inferior gear. 3. they get cocky and just try to auto-attack me to death 4. I see them coming from a loooong way off, they say "hahahah stupid clothy whatever", and resist half my attacks and I barely take them down before almost dying myself. How often do I sneak up on them? When they are afk. Yeah, a guy wearing a robe with 2 pets floating around is really hard to miss. How often do you find yourself jumped by a scout? Frequently. And I'll send an exploding froglok to the first person who says "0mg bfly totems!!!" I carry over 100 charges.I have listened to the valid topics. Do you hear me talking about hacks? Did you see me flame Vannin needlessly? No, we discussed what he said - but you'll notice he wasn't being a [I cannot control my vocabulary]. I even debate with the trolls, so I really wish you people would quit parroting that, as well. Go look at my post to Syslik the Non-PvP Lord. Debated everything he said, valid or otherwise. What you people don't want to admit is that YOU are the ones not paying attention here, so quit [I cannot control my vocabulary] repeating yourselves. Do you have anything more than r-p-s nonsense(which was beaten up long before you got here), or accusations vaguely relating to yetis? Ultimately, you didn't offer much in the way of debate, strategies, or pretty much any logical thought process. The only reason you got this much of a response is because I'm on my lunch break. </blockquote>Man seriously, you sited topics that have been beaten up before you got here? Did you not know that this topic has had countless threads dedicated to it? You continue to just add dribble, which I assume, has to be for your post counter more then anything. You call for a serious conversation and when someone comments you bash him or her to no end. You can say what you will, but this conversation is pointless and obviously fruitless and I would say mostly because of your unwillingness to do anything but react harshly to anything anyone has said. You fire back with a bunch of verbose nonsense and some harsh comments and demand people respond to you with something constructive. Yah buddy... <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Firam

04-11-2007, 01:57 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>However, people have apparently forgotten Lazyfrog's example about 15 pages (whatever) ago where he (a swash with a full set of PvP gear) and a fury were ready for an attack and the end result was ultimately the same. The fury there used an ENTIRE BAR OF MANA keeping him up. If a swash can't stand up to that kind of pounding, what chance will a caster have? None, zero, zip. </blockquote>I've chosen to ignore that story, because, once again, it sounds like people are leaving out critical variables and/or just flat out making things up. I don't care what gear you are wearing, what tricks you use, or how good you are, if you are not a healer and you're soloing a swashbuckler that has a healer "dumping their mana bar" into him, you will not kill that swashbuckler nor will you live through his DPS while the fury empties an "entire bar of mana" into him. If you are a healer, you can keep yourself up through the incoming DPS, but you certainly won't be killing the swashbuckler then. That story has a critical logic flaw in it. Let's see if you can find it. 1. Fact: The swashbuckler lived long enough for the fury to burn through a tremendous amount of mana. 2. Fact: The brigand's initial 3-5 seconds of CA's thus did not kill the swash. 3. Fact: The brigand's 5-10 seconds of remaining follow up CA's after that flurry, which, if you will kindly verify with any other brigand, are now composed of appx 50% backstabs, requiring positional attack, on a target who's also trained to circle-strafe you, did not kill him. 4. Assumption: The swashbuckler is purported to be wearing a full set of PvP gear, thus we can assume he is skilled and likely in the top 1-5% of his class. 5. Inference: We can logically infer from #4 that he was presenting the best fight his class had to offer against a brigand, within reasonable bounds of the constraints and variables at the time. 6. Opinion: Swashbuckler vs Brigand, 1v1, both highly skilled, well geared, and well AA'd, will generally go in favor of the swashbuckler. This is a separate issue and I can argue this all you want (in another thread), and I'm sure I'll have much of the brigand community supporting me on this. Reach AA + inspiration + en guarde + regular swash CA's and autoattack = tier zero DPS in PvP. Even brigands fawn over the swashbuckler alpha CA's. 7. Fact: A brigand will out-DPS a swashbuckler within the first 3-4 seconds of a fight, but only if they can get position and get the D+MA+DU combo off. 8. Assumption: A swashbuckler in full PvP gear will be able to live through a brigand's opening D+MA+DU, even without a healer. Both rogues will be close to or over 50% physical mitigation. The damage is just nowhere near enough. I speak from experience in this case. 9. Fact: If a swashbuckler lives through D+MA+DU, either by virtue of natural HP/mitigation, or due to a healer, he has survived the brigand's "dread combo" and is entering into the mid-phase portion of the fight. 10. Fact [corollary to #9]: Over the course of a mid range (10-30 second) fight, a swashbuckler will out-DPS a brigand due to natural CA superiority [D+MA+DU excluded as "spent" at this point]. 11. Assumption: A fury, doing nothing but frantically spamming heals, has enough aggregate healing power to keep a swashbuckler alive through any non-[true]-instakill spells or CA's originating from a single, unassisted target only, while his power pool remains. 12. Conclusion: The fight lasted at least long enough for the fury to empty an entire bar of mana healing. We'll call it 25-30 seconds, which I still think is conservative. The brigand was taking 25-30 second's worth of full out DPS from the swashbuckler. The brigand had no healer. The brigand is dead, dust, destroyed. 13. Suggestion: If we assume the story to be true, then based on the criteria above there were variables in place that haven't been mentioned. Did the brigand get the jump on the duo while they were fighting? If there was a mob or mobs on the swash when he was trying to fight the brigand, that would account for enough incoming DPS to require the fury to empty all that mana. That would also lead to the conclusion that most of the swash's CA's would have been used and awaiting cooldown, which would explain why the brigand lived long enough for the fury to empty all that mana into the swash. Regardless, this is bunk. Throughout this thread you continuously (and imho excessively) refer back to previously mentioned incidents or discussion points which were never logically sound and/or helpful to your cause in the first place. The majority of the posters here were (and still are) trying to discuss the points with logic and reason, trying to make this thread viable, valid. You started off angry and quickly devolved into aggressive and infantile. In the last 150 posts worth of this thread you have trolled and insulted more times than I care to count. The first 150 weren't much better. Any semblance of a valid point you may or may not have once possessed is now mired so deeply in the swampy morass of your disjointed invective that you will never recover and will likely never again be recognized as a legitimate poster on these forums. You fit the classic definition of a troll. You are the archetype. Everyone here is now truly dumber for having read this thread. I award you no points in the game of life, and may God have mercy on your unfortunate, withered soul.

dnice74

04-11-2007, 02:12 PM

Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>chuckstud wrote: </blockquote> Hmm, well thus far I've said nothing that isn't the truth, either you just can't comprehend anything that doesn't follow your own views or you just don't want to admit someone is right besides you~ Brigs used to be overpowered, they got fixed, they still own people, you're a cloth wearer, you got owned... I don't know how much more information you want me to tell you, you posted a log where the brigand completely killed you and your friend, I will acknowledge that, but thus far you have one log to 20 pages of you complaining about brigs without any proof to back up your claims. You can't expect people to take you seriously, even if you just are responding to "troll responses" half those "troll responses" have valid points, the thing that irks you though is that they disagree with what you are trying to preach, give them some proof and maybe someone will believe you. Until then you might as well prove that yetis exist while you're at it~ </blockquote>They got fixed? I'm curious, please tell me how track/evac/godly pvp burst dps combo that refreshes every minute/snare/in-combat run speed/stun/ranged attacks/root/stealth/pets/chainwearer mitigation is "fixed", exactly. I have very few ways to beat a good brigand. I'm surprised that I've killed as many of them as I have, to be honest. Here are the only ways it's possible: 1. they don't know how to play the class. 2. they have inferior gear. 3. they get cocky and just try to auto-attack me to death 4. I see them coming from a loooong way off, they say "hahahah stupid clothy whatever", and resist half my attacks and I barely take them down before almost dying myself. How often do I sneak up on them? When they are afk. Yeah, a guy wearing a robe with 2 pets floating around is really hard to miss. How often do you find yourself jumped by a scout? Frequently. And I'll send an exploding froglok to the first person who says "0mg bfly totems!!!" I carry over 100 charges.I have listened to the valid topics. Do you hear me talking about hacks? Did you see me flame Vannin needlessly? No, we discussed what he said - but you'll notice he wasn't being a [I cannot control my vocabulary]. I even debate with the trolls, so I really wish you people would quit parroting that, as well. Go look at my post to Syslik the Non-PvP Lord. Debated everything he said, valid or otherwise. What you people don't want to admit is that YOU are the ones not paying attention here, so quit [I cannot control my vocabulary] repeating yourselves. Do you have anything more than r-p-s nonsense(which was beaten up long before you got here), or accusations vaguely relating to yetis? Ultimately, you didn't offer much in the way of debate, strategies, or pretty much any logical thought process. The only reason you got this much of a response is because I'm on my lunch break. </blockquote>Man seriously, you sited topics that have been beaten up before you got here? Did you not know that this topic has had countless threads dedicated to it? You continue to just add dribble, which I assume, has to be for your post counter more then anything. You call for a serious conversation and when someone comments you bash him or her to no end. You can say what you will, but this conversation is pointless and obviously fruitless and I would say mostly because of your unwillingness to do anything but react harshly to anything anyone has said. You fire back with a bunch of verbose nonsense and some harsh comments and demand people respond to you with something constructive. Yah buddy... <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Hi troll. Care to out yourself here and tell us who your mains are? Nothing to say to you, I told you - done with the trolls. Debate the topic or go away.

Titan-X

04-11-2007, 02:42 PM

The topic: You want brigands nerfed because hmm, let see. Could it be that you are in the top 10 (number 9) of all the Conj on the servers with the most deaths? So anyone and anything kills you, but probably more often then not a brigand. Lets go back to the beginning:"Plain and simple - Vox brigands have been abusing the macros lately and/or hacking outright".You have since dismissed the topic of hacking. Did you go buy a proxy program and thought, "oops" better not say to much about this anymore they will bust me. Macro's, well since they have just upgraded the macro system guess ol' eq2 didn't find your topic valid before you dreamed it up. As a matter of fact one could assume that due to their updating and upgrading of the system, the developers themselves found the original system lacking. So as a response to you call of abuse, I would think more of proper use coupled with know how. "My guild has probably sent in 20 petitions a week about this issue. Basically, brigands are hotkeying all of their CA's into one button and dumping them on people in under a second. There is no class, no amount of gear, nothing that can stand up to that".You might take the time to petition this often, but man how do ever plan to have fun playing any game when your so distracted by the negative aspects. Aspects of a game in which you truly have no ability to change, so in essence you are just b*tching to hear the sound of your own voice. "Please tell me that you are at least aware of this and I will go away. But petitions aren't working, and sadly enough, the stupid little [I cannot control my vocabulary] who play this game will do everything they can to cheat. Anyway, lame-[I cannot control my vocabulary] teens with no life are not the point of this thread". Asking for a direct response on a player forum from a game developer should have been our first clue of how asinine this thread was going to be. As far as lame teens, this game is made up of teens who have no lifes, but speaking only for myself, I am sitting at work laughing my proverbial a** off each time you post. Keep up the good work, my day goes much faster and much funnier with each bit of nonsense you spew. Now I have responded with your "topic" (the term used loosely) in mind.

dnice74

04-11-2007, 03:30 PM

<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>However, people have apparently forgotten Lazyfrog's example about 15 pages (whatever) ago where he (a swash with a full set of PvP gear) and a fury were ready for an attack and the end result was ultimately the same. The fury there used an ENTIRE BAR OF MANA keeping him up. If a swash can't stand up to that kind of pounding, what chance will a caster have? None, zero, zip. </blockquote>I've chosen to ignore that story, because, once again, it sounds like people are leaving out critical variables and/or just flat out making things up. I don't care what gear you are wearing, what tricks you use, or how good you are, if you are not a healer and you're soloing a swashbuckler that has a healer "dumping their mana bar" into him, you will not kill that swashbuckler nor will you live through his DPS while the fury empties an "entire bar of mana" into him. If you are a healer, you can keep yourself up through the incoming DPS, but you certainly won't be killing the swashbuckler then. That story has a critical logic flaw in it. Let's see if you can find it. 1. Fact: The swashbuckler lived long enough for the fury to burn through a tremendous amount of mana. 2. Fact: The brigand's initial 3-5 seconds of CA's thus did not kill the swash. 3. Fact: The brigand's 5-10 seconds of remaining follow up CA's after that flurry, which, if you will kindly verify with any other brigand, are now composed of appx 50% backstabs, requiring positional attack, on a target who's also trained to circle-strafe you, did not kill him. 4. Assumption: The swashbuckler is purported to be wearing a full set of PvP gear, thus we can assume he is skilled and likely in the top 1-5% of his class. 5. Inference: We can logically infer from #4 that he was presenting the best fight his class had to offer against a brigand, within reasonable bounds of the constraints and variables at the time. 6. Opinion: Swashbuckler vs Brigand, 1v1, both highly skilled, well geared, and well AA'd, will generally go in favor of the swashbuckler. This is a separate issue and I can argue this all you want (in another thread), and I'm sure I'll have much of the brigand community supporting me on this. Reach AA + inspiration + en guarde + regular swash CA's and autoattack = tier zero DPS in PvP. Even brigands fawn over the swashbuckler alpha CA's. 7. Fact: A brigand will out-DPS a swashbuckler within the first 3-4 seconds of a fight, but only if they can get position and get the D+MA+DU combo off. 8. Assumption: A swashbuckler in full PvP gear will be able to live through a brigand's opening D+MA+DU, even without a healer. Both rogues will be close to or over 50% physical mitigation. The damage is just nowhere near enough. I speak from experience in this case. 9. Fact: If a swashbuckler lives through D+MA+DU, either by virtue of natural HP/mitigation, or due to a healer, he has survived the brigand's "dread combo" and is entering into the mid-phase portion of the fight. 10. Fact [corollary to #9]: Over the course of a mid range (10-30 second) fight, a swashbuckler will out-DPS a brigand due to natural CA superiority [D+MA+DU excluded as "spent" at this point]. 11. Assumption: A fury, doing nothing but frantically spamming heals, has enough aggregate healing power to keep a swashbuckler alive through any non-[true]-instakill spells or CA's originating from a single, unassisted target only, while his power pool remains. 12. Conclusion: The fight lasted at least long enough for the fury to empty an entire bar of mana healing. We'll call it 25-30 seconds, which I still think is conservative. The brigand was taking 25-30 second's worth of full out DPS from the swashbuckler. The brigand had no healer. The brigand is dead, dust, destroyed. 13. Suggestion: If we assume the story to be true, then based on the criteria above there were variables in place that haven't been mentioned. Did the brigand get the jump on the duo while they were fighting? If there was a mob or mobs on the swash when he was trying to fight the brigand, that would account for enough incoming DPS to require the fury to empty all that mana. That would also lead to the conclusion that most of the swash's CA's would have been used and awaiting cooldown, which would explain why the brigand lived long enough for the fury to empty all that mana into the swash. Regardless, this is bunk. Throughout this thread you continuously (and imho excessively) refer back to previously mentioned incidents or discussion points which were never logically sound and/or helpful to your cause in the first place. The majority of the posters here were (and still are) trying to discuss the points with logic and reason, trying to make this thread viable, valid. You started off angry and quickly devolved into aggressive and infantile. In the last 150 posts worth of this thread you have trolled and insulted more times than I care to count. The first 150 weren't much better. Any semblance of a valid point you may or may not have once possessed is now mired so deeply in the swampy morass of your disjointed invective that you will never recover and will likely never again be recognized as a legitimate poster on these forums. You fit the classic definition of a troll. You are the archetype. Everyone here is now truly dumber for having read this thread. I award you no points in the game of life, and may God have mercy on your unfortunate, withered soul. </blockquote>A real post from Firamas! See, I knew you could write something intelligent when you weren't too busy trying to flame me. And because the first part of your thread was so nice - a flame-free reply (like I have done to everyone who hasn't started off with it, but no one believes me, so oh well) is yours. You spend all that time using very logical reasons for how the brigand should have been dead at the end of the fight. Maybe I was wrong - maybe he died. Maybe he didn't kill both of them. Maybe it's in that post and both of us should have referenced it before I repeatedly said he killed both of them. Contrary to popular belief, I will admit when I'm wrong and apologize if the situation warrants, as I have done once in this thread.Let's move on. Firamas, I have repeatedly asked you pointed questions about why you feel brigands should utterly annihilate casters the way they do, ways around it, how you think this is balanced. What have I received in turn? Scouts own casters, you know I don't know how to play, swashies are even more overpowered. Again - I asked you some very pointed questions a page or two ago. Your sarcastic, childish reply - just like most of them have been - was the antithesis of how to be useful. So here you are again - successfully debating why that example was probably lacking the complete story, but missing the boat completely by getting away from the whole point of this [Removed for Content] thread in your attempt to debase me yet again. Sadly, after that nice analysis, your post degenerated into a bunch of hokum(such a wonderful vocabulary you have, too. pity) about how I wasn't referring to valid points, I'm the true troll, I eat babies, blah blah blah. Stick with the intelligent points and less with the attempts at flame-of-the-month, please. So back to the main point - Firamas, I have repeatedly asked you why it is balanced for brigands to eat up casters in the manner they do. I asked you several pointed questions in my last exchange with you that you have yet to answer. Go look, it's not that far back. What did I get? A complete cop-out of an answer and a bunch of smarmy bs. So spare me your elegant, hypocritical-to-the-point-of-nausea prose about how I am the "true troll" here until you answer the questions I've posed to you, for starters. Stop with the legerdemain about swashies and talk about your class. I know you consider yourself intelligent. So prove it, if you are capable. Is "scouts kill casters because they do" and "rps noob" and "l2p" the best you've got? If it is, please tell me why brigands were nerfed in the first place? Why don't conjurors still one-shot tanks? Why did decap and ht get nerfed? Why is a cap system about to be implemented? Astound us all with your acumen about how balance SHOULD work in an RPG.

dnice74

04-11-2007, 03:32 PM

Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>The topic: You want brigands nerfed because hmm, let see. Could it be that you are in the top 10 (number 9) of all the Conj on the servers with the most deaths? So anyone and anything kills you, but probably more often then not a brigand. Lets go back to the beginning:"Plain and simple - Vox brigands have been abusing the macros lately and/or hacking outright".You have since dismissed the topic of hacking. Did you go buy a proxy program and thought, "oops" better not say to much about this anymore they will bust me. Macro's, well since they have just upgraded the macro system guess ol' eq2 didn't find your topic valid before you dreamed it up. As a matter of fact one could assume that due to their updating and upgrading of the system, the developers themselves found the original system lacking. So as a response to you call of abuse, I would think more of proper use coupled with know how. "My guild has probably sent in 20 petitions a week about this issue. Basically, brigands are hotkeying all of their CA's into one button and dumping them on people in under a second. There is no class, no amount of gear, nothing that can stand up to that".You might take the time to petition this often, but man how do ever plan to have fun playing any game when your so distracted by the negative aspects. Aspects of a game in which you truly have no ability to change, so in essence you are just b*tching to hear the sound of your own voice. "Please tell me that you are at least aware of this and I will go away. But petitions aren't working, and sadly enough, the stupid little [I cannot control my vocabulary] who play this game will do everything they can to cheat. Anyway, lame-[I cannot control my vocabulary] teens with no life are not the point of this thread". Asking for a direct response on a player forum from a game developer should have been our first clue of how asinine this thread was going to be. As far as lame teens, this game is made up of teens who have no lifes, but speaking only for myself, I am sitting at work laughing my proverbial a** off each time you post. Keep up the good work, my day goes much faster and much funnier with each bit of nonsense you spew. Now I have responded with your "topic" (the term used loosely) in mind. </blockquote> Hi troll! Care to tell us who your FP SCOUT mains are?

Titan-X

04-11-2007, 03:44 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>The topic: You want brigands nerfed because hmm, let see. Could it be that you are in the top 10 (number 9) of all the Conj on the servers with the most deaths? So anyone and anything kills you, but probably more often then not a brigand. Lets go back to the beginning:"Plain and simple - Vox brigands have been abusing the macros lately and/or hacking outright".You have since dismissed the topic of hacking. Did you go buy a proxy program and thought, "oops" better not say to much about this anymore they will bust me. Macro's, well since they have just upgraded the macro system guess ol' eq2 didn't find your topic valid before you dreamed it up. As a matter of fact one could assume that due to their updating and upgrading of the system, the developers themselves found the original system lacking. So as a response to you call of abuse, I would think more of proper use coupled with know how. "My guild has probably sent in 20 petitions a week about this issue. Basically, brigands are hotkeying all of their CA's into one button and dumping them on people in under a second. There is no class, no amount of gear, nothing that can stand up to that".You might take the time to petition this often, but man how do ever plan to have fun playing any game when your so distracted by the negative aspects. Aspects of a game in which you truly have no ability to change, so in essence you are just b*tching to hear the sound of your own voice. "Please tell me that you are at least aware of this and I will go away. But petitions aren't working, and sadly enough, the stupid little [I cannot control my vocabulary] who play this game will do everything they can to cheat. Anyway, lame-[I cannot control my vocabulary] teens with no life are not the point of this thread". Asking for a direct response on a player forum from a game developer should have been our first clue of how asinine this thread was going to be. As far as lame teens, this game is made up of teens who have no lifes, but speaking only for myself, I am sitting at work laughing my proverbial a** off each time you post. Keep up the good work, my day goes much faster and much funnier with each bit of nonsense you spew. Now I have responded with your "topic" (the term used loosely) in mind. </blockquote> Hi troll! Care to tell us who your FP SCOUT mains are?</blockquote>You demand something constructive and yet you resort to nothing less then a childish response with subject matter that has no bearing. You apparently have no ability to challenge my points of contention based on this fact. SO, I suppose this thread is done?I will be excited to see what new and exciting dribble you come up with next...Yours truly,[Removed for Content]....

dnice74

04-11-2007, 03:57 PM

Dodad, when you want to tell us all who your FP mains are and have a discussion about balance as it pertains to brigs vs. casters, feel free to chime in. Your clunky post wasn't worth addressing, and I don't have time to address every single monkey who flings poop. Toodles.

Ibunubi

04-11-2007, 04:13 PM

I think the poster of this thread, not the brigand, is out of hand.

Titan-X

04-11-2007, 04:16 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Dodad, when you want to tell us all who your FP mains are and have a discussion about balance as it pertains to brigs vs. casters, feel free to chime in. Your clunky post wasn't worth addressing, and I don't have time to address every single monkey who flings poop. Toodles. </blockquote> I have watched this post now for 300+ entries. People have sited that there is no data currently that supports your point. You seem to have a fascination with certain people and a fabulous ability to derail your own post. I will refrain from making any sort of comment that will allow you to go on a tirade. Oops to late is suppose. Fact is that a conjure a class in which is arguably one of the most powerful solo classes in the game calling for the nerf of another class is not only comical but I would classify this as a joke if you were not so passionate in your bashing of others who do not agree with you. I have a 70 conj, and I can solo yellow ^^^ heroics and at 70 do so much group dps I consider myself a beast on group mobs. Knowing that your dps is designed mainly for a group encounter and you come across a class who is solely designed for a solo encounter and you cant figure out why he burns are [Removed for Content] to the ground. You have one of the best snares in the game, couple with your root which procs a snare (no immune to that portion) you can make someone walk so slow he should be attacking your pet because he cant get to you. Add in a couple dots (one of which is a stifle) and you are the winner. Everytime? No, as a matter of fact you going head to head with a scout and he gets a piece of you, you should expect to take a dirtnap. Knowing many a conj in pvp and how deadly they are, have you considered it's a problem between the chair and the keyboard?1/100 your skill at being a worthless and non-productive post has increased.

chuckstud

04-11-2007, 04:19 PM

I suppose this thread is done than... Final Result : Brigs, while still owning everyone, are fine~!

Titan-X

04-11-2007, 04:22 PM

wOrd

dnice74

04-11-2007, 04:39 PM

Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Dodad, when you want to tell us all who your FP mains are and have a discussion about balance as it pertains to brigs vs. casters, feel free to chime in. Your clunky post wasn't worth addressing, and I don't have time to address every single monkey who flings poop. Toodles. </blockquote> I have watched this post now for 300+ entries. People have sited that there is no data currently that supports your point. You seem to have a fascination with certain people and a fabulous ability to derail your own post. I will refrain from making any sort of comment that will allow you to go on a tirade. Oops to late is suppose. Fact is that a conjure a class in which is arguably one of the most powerful solo classes in the game calling for the nerf of another class is not only comical but I would classify this as a joke if you were not so passionate in your bashing of others who do not agree with you. I have a 70 conj, and I can solo yellow ^^^ heroics and at 70 do so much group dps I consider myself a beast on group mobs. Knowing that your dps is designed mainly for a group encounter and you come across a class who is solely designed for a solo encounter and you cant figure out why he burns are [Removed for Content] to the ground. You have one of the best snares in the game, couple with your root which procs a snare (no immune to that portion) you can make someone walk so slow he should be attacking your pet because he cant get to you. Add in a couple dots (one of which is a stifle) and you are the winner. Everytime? No, as a matter of fact you going head to head with a scout and he gets a piece of you, you should expect to take a dirtnap. Knowing many a conj in pvp and how deadly they are, have you considered it's a problem between the chair and the keyboard?1/100 your skill at being a worthless and non-productive post has increased. </blockquote>Let's see. Not on a PvP server? Check. "You have no logs, therefore you created a thread for no reason"? Check. Explains useless things to me about my class(wow I can solo triple ups???I have roots and snares [that never land]??? no [Removed for Content]???)? Check. Flames me because I'm a bad bad man? Check. Contributes nothing to the debate (see first point) check. "L2p, rpsftwbbq"? Check. Yup. Troll. Maybe you all missed it, but this isn't the "I hate Wreakinn" thread. Let hear about brigs and casters, please. No more comments from bluebies, sorry.

dnice74

04-11-2007, 04:41 PM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose this thread is done than... Final Result : Brigs, while still owning everyone, are fine~! </blockquote>Hi Mr. Troll!

chuckstud

04-11-2007, 04:44 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose this thread is done than... Final Result : Brigs, while still owning everyone, are fine~! </blockquote>Hi Mr. Troll!</blockquote> You're dismissed

Titan-X

04-11-2007, 04:53 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Dodad, when you want to tell us all who your FP mains are and have a discussion about balance as it pertains to brigs vs. casters, feel free to chime in. Your clunky post wasn't worth addressing, and I don't have time to address every single monkey who flings poop. Toodles. </blockquote> I have watched this post now for 300+ entries. People have sited that there is no data currently that supports your point. You seem to have a fascination with certain people and a fabulous ability to derail your own post. I will refrain from making any sort of comment that will allow you to go on a tirade. Oops to late is suppose. Fact is that a conjure a class in which is arguably one of the most powerful solo classes in the game calling for the nerf of another class is not only comical but I would classify this as a joke if you were not so passionate in your bashing of others who do not agree with you. I have a 70 conj, and I can solo yellow ^^^ heroics and at 70 do so much group dps I consider myself a beast on group mobs. Knowing that your dps is designed mainly for a group encounter and you come across a class who is solely designed for a solo encounter and you cant figure out why he burns are [Removed for Content] to the ground. You have one of the best snares in the game, couple with your root which procs a snare (no immune to that portion) you can make someone walk so slow he should be attacking your pet because he cant get to you. Add in a couple dots (one of which is a stifle) and you are the winner. Everytime? No, as a matter of fact you going head to head with a scout and he gets a piece of you, you should expect to take a dirtnap. Knowing many a conj in pvp and how deadly they are, have you considered it's a problem between the chair and the keyboard?1/100 your skill at being a worthless and non-productive post has increased. </blockquote>Let's see. Not on a PvP server? Check. "You have no logs, therefore you created a thread for no reason"? Check. Explains useless things to me about my class(wow I can solo triple ups???I have roots and snares [that never land]??? no [I cannot control my vocabulary]???)? Check. Flames me because I'm a bad bad man? Check. Contributes nothing to the debate (see first point) check. "L2p, rpsftwbbq"? Check. Yup. Troll. Maybe you all missed it, but this isn't the "I hate Wreakinn" thread. Let hear about brigs and casters, please. No more comments from bluebies, sorry. </blockquote> Oh I am sorry nub, didn't realize I had to change my persona so that I could post here. I play on vox, and know your a idiot. Checking your stats your gear isnt terrible, so one has to assume its the player not the game. I am sure this will become about who I am instead of the topic at hand, so feel free and fire away..You have been dismissed, class over

dnice74

04-11-2007, 04:55 PM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose this thread is done than... Final Result : Brigs, while still owning everyone, are fine~! </blockquote>Hi Mr. Troll!</blockquote> You're dismissed </blockquote> I finally remembered how to silence trolls, Faabio. Would you like to know?

chuckstud

04-11-2007, 04:59 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose this thread is done than... Final Result : Brigs, while still owning everyone, are fine~! </blockquote>Hi Mr. Troll!</blockquote> You're dismissed </blockquote> I finally remembered how to silence trolls, Faabio. Would you like to know?</blockquote> Get back on topic or leave this thread alone, it's about brigands, please don't get off topic. Get on topic or you're dismissed... Personally guys, I think brigs are fine, you just need some potions, maybe a little bit a skill, and they should be no problem to the average player!

dnice74

04-11-2007, 04:59 PM

Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote></blockquote> </blockquote>Let's see. Not on a PvP server? Check. "You have no logs, therefore you created a thread for no reason"? Check. Explains useless things to me about my class(wow I can solo triple ups???I have roots and snares [that never land]??? no [I cannot control my vocabulary]???)? Check. Flames me because I'm a bad bad man? Check. Contributes nothing to the debate (see first point) check. "L2p, rpsftwbbq"? Check. Yup. Troll. Maybe you all missed it, but this isn't the "I hate Wreakinn" thread. Let hear about brigs and casters, please. No more comments from bluebies, sorry. </blockquote> Oh I am sorry nub, didn't realize I had to change my persona so that I could post here. I play on vox, and know your a idiot. I am sure this will become about who I am instead of the topic at hand, so feel free and fire away..You have been dismissed, class over </blockquote>Faabio treatment for all of you. Poof! Thanks for the comedy, though.

Firam

04-11-2007, 09:45 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>A real post from Firamas! See, I knew you could write something intelligent when you weren't too busy trying to flame me. And because the first part of your thread was so nice - a flame-free reply (like I have done to everyone who hasn't started off with it, but no one believes me, so oh well) is yours. You spend all that time using very logical reasons for how the brigand should have been dead at the end of the fight. Maybe I was wrong - maybe he died. Maybe he didn't kill both of them. Maybe it's in that post and both of us should have referenced it before I repeatedly said he killed both of them. Contrary to popular belief, I will admit when I'm wrong and apologize if the situation warrants, as I have done once in this thread.Let's move on. Firamas, I have repeatedly asked you pointed questions about why you feel brigands should utterly annihilate casters the way they do, ways around it, how you think this is balanced. What have I received in turn? Scouts own casters, you know I don't know how to play, swashies are even more overpowered. ... So back to the main point - Firamas, I have repeatedly asked you why it is balanced for brigands to eat up casters in the manner they do. I asked you several pointed questions in my last exchange with you that you have yet to answer.</blockquote> You're right. You have repeatedly asked me (and others) why rogues are so strong vs casters, ways around it, and how we think it's balanced. We also repeatedly tried answering all of these questions. The problem is, you seem to glaze over these responses and immediately dismiss them as still outside the realm of your "correct answer". It's obvious you have an agenda here. It's also become obvious that no amount of realistic advice or reasoning we offer in reference to this issue is going to change your mind. The strategies and tactics we're offering that actually work against brigands are blown off by you, stripped away from the discussion, until all we have left is flame-bait on both sides. Until brigands are nerfed to the point of being unable to kill casters the majority of the time (if they get the jump on them), you won't be happy. You quite effortlessly dismiss the entire validity of the same R-P-S theory that exists in every MMO PvP environment. We're asking you to prove why R-P-S is invalid. You are in the vast minority of public opinion in regards to this issue and are going against the grain of commonly accepted gaming theory, so you get stuck with proving the majority wrong. However, you know you can't do this with any true measure of success, so you come back to us and ask us to prove why we're right. That's not the way the world works, bud. If you're a member of the Communist party and running for office, you don't ask Americans to prove that Democracy is right, you prove to Americans that Communism is more effective.

dnice74

04-11-2007, 10:51 PM

<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>A real post from Firamas! See, I knew you could write something intelligent when you weren't too busy trying to flame me. And because the first part of your thread was so nice - a flame-free reply (like I have done to everyone who hasn't started off with it, but no one believes me, so oh well) is yours. You spend all that time using very logical reasons for how the brigand should have been dead at the end of the fight. Maybe I was wrong - maybe he died. Maybe he didn't kill both of them. Maybe it's in that post and both of us should have referenced it before I repeatedly said he killed both of them. Contrary to popular belief, I will admit when I'm wrong and apologize if the situation warrants, as I have done once in this thread.Let's move on. Firamas, I have repeatedly asked you pointed questions about why you feel brigands should utterly annihilate casters the way they do, ways around it, how you think this is balanced. What have I received in turn? Scouts own casters, you know I don't know how to play, swashies are even more overpowered. ... So back to the main point - Firamas, I have repeatedly asked you why it is balanced for brigands to eat up casters in the manner they do. I asked you several pointed questions in my last exchange with you that you have yet to answer.</blockquote>You're right. You have repeatedly asked me (and others) why rogues are so strong vs casters, ways around it, and how we think it's balanced. We also repeatedly tried answering all of these questions.How you think it's balanced? You mean your constant cries of "l2p", "scouts own casters", etc? Do you really want me to give you some quotes from your responses? I'm calling you out because you seem intelligent enough to answer the question, but you keep ducking it. Not tired enough apparently, because you're still here, aren't you? The problem is, you seem to glaze over these responses and immediately dismiss them as still outside the realm of your "correct answer". It's obvious you have an agenda here. It's also become obvious that no amount of realistic advice or reasoning we offer in reference to this issue is going to change your mind. The strategies and tactics we're offering that actually work against brigands are blown off by you, stripped away from the discussion, until all we have left is flame-bait on both sides. Until brigands are nerfed to the point of being unable to kill casters the majority of the time (if they get the jump on them), you won't be happy. You quite effortlessly dismiss the entire validity of the same R-P-S theory that exists in every MMO PvP environment. Just answer the question and quit with the distraction; your Jedi mind-tricks to not work on me, boy. Tell me again like the simpleton I am. Did you see me yell at Vanni for telling his pov? Nope, in fact, I agreed with a few of his points, but he had no interest in trolling or pathetically crying about how I was trying to get him nerfed. Provide me with a bs-free strategy, and we can talk, or you can keep up with the 3-card monte routine. Your choice. Now if something doesn't work, don't whine when I tell you why it doesn't. I have no agenda, other than to tone down brigs and scouts against casters to the point where I can have a good fight. Why would I want them gimped? Booooorrrrrriiiinnnnggggg. But just like wizards and fusion, or sk's and pt, or swashies and their burst (happy now?), I don't find 2 seconds fights interesting, balanced, fun, or otherwise. Obviously, the devs agree, or they wouldn't keep nerfing these things, would they? Tell you what, keep your combo and give me a 6 hit stoneskin vs brigs, or a 2k AA pet heal, or pet taunt that works, anything. Because running anytime I see a well-geared brig or a brig who is too close to me is annoying, considering how many people play them on high end. We're asking you to prove why R-P-S is invalid. You are in the vast minority of public opinion in regards to this issue and are going against the grain of commonly accepted gaming theory, so you get stuck with proving the majority wrong. However, you know you can't do this with any true measure of success, so you come back to us and ask us to prove why we're right. That's not the way the world works, bud. If you're a member of the Communist party and running for office, you don't ask Americans to prove that Democracy is right, you prove to Americans that Communism is more effective.The problem with that - I asked you first, and you aren't going to weasel your way out of this. Are you incapable of answering a question? You give me a straight answer, stop with the [Removed for Content] lawyering(seriously, are you a law student?), and I'll give you one. Trust me, I have one(actually, I practically answered it in the paragraph above this); because unlike you, I don't give a crap about what "the vast majority" and "common gaming theory" are supposed to dictate<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I'm really tired of you passing this bs off as an answer; can you stop with the smoke-and-mirrors bit for a second? Give me a direct answer, or go away. Why are you so afraid of a question? Do you see me shying away from anything here? It's a video game, man. Just answer the damned question. </blockquote>

dnice74

04-11-2007, 11:01 PM

Are these boards messed up or is it just me?

dnice74

04-11-2007, 11:01 PM

Broken edit function ftw!

Syslik

04-12-2007, 11:02 AM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote <blockquote>A real post from Firamas! See, I knew you could write something intelligent when you weren't too busy trying to flame me. And because the first part of your thread was so nice - a flame-free reply (like I have done to everyone who hasn't started off with it, but no one believes me, so oh well) is yours. You spend all that time using very logical reasons for how the brigand should have been dead at the end of the fight. Maybe I was wrong - maybe he died. Maybe he didn't kill both of them. Maybe it's in that post and both of us should have referenced it before I repeatedly said he killed both of them. Contrary to popular belief, I will admit when I'm wrong and apologize if the situation warrants, as I have done once in this thread.Let's move on. Firamas, I have repeatedly asked you pointed questions about why you feel brigands should utterly annihilate casters the way they do, ways around it, how you think this is balanced. What have I received in turn? Scouts own casters, you know I don't know how to play, swashies are even more overpowered. Again - I asked you some very pointed questions a page or two ago. Your sarcastic, childish reply - just like most of them have been - was the antithesis of how to be useful. So here you are again - successfully debating why that example was probably lacking the complete story, but missing the boat completely by getting away from the whole point of this [I cannot control my vocabulary] thread in your attempt to debase me yet again. Sadly, after that nice analysis, your post degenerated into a bunch of hokum(such a wonderful vocabulary you have, too. pity) about how I wasn't referring to valid points, I'm the true troll, I eat babies, blah blah blah. Stick with the intelligent points and less with the attempts at flame-of-the-month, please. So back to the main point - Firamas, I have repeatedly asked you why it is balanced for brigands to eat up casters in the manner they do. I asked you several pointed questions in my last exchange with you that you have yet to answer. Go look, it's not that far back. What did I get? A complete cop-out of an answer and a bunch of smarmy bs. So spare me your elegant, hypocritical-to-the-point-of-nausea prose about how I am the "true troll" here until you answer the questions I've posed to you, for starters. Stop with the legerdemain about swashies and talk about your class. I know you consider yourself intelligent. So prove it, if you are capable. Is "scouts kill casters because they do" and "rps noob" and "l2p" the best you've got? If it is, please tell me why brigands were nerfed in the first place? Why don't conjurors still one-shot tanks? Why did decap and ht get nerfed? Why is a cap system about to be implemented? Astound us all with your acumen about how balance SHOULD work in an RPG. </blockquote>I can't believe this thread is still going after a week, and nothing productive has been added by you. Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Nobody's saying I'm "charging in" to save anything. I thought that perhaps an outside perspective from somebody who you couldn't possibly think was "out to get you" would get through to you and show you how you're acting. Seemingly not. I have no interest in "taking swings," but a PM would have been fundamentally worthless. Sometimes people need to see how they're acting in a public forum, that's all. You can assume that I haven't played a day of PvP in years, because obviously DAoC isn't around anymore (wrong), WoW isn't around anymore (wrong), and I couldn't possibly play a game with far more brutal PvP than EQ2 (I do, EVE), could I? You can find as many examples of "experience is king" as you want, but generally speaking, the balance in PvP games goes: Scout kills mage Tank kills scout Mage kills tank Priests vary somewhat, and I'm not precisely sure where they fit in EQ2, but you don't play a priest, and I made no assumptions about them. As I mentioned, it's always been this way, in every fantasy game, though exceptional skill or gear can tip the balance. Of course, anybody getting the jump makes all the difference, but you have butterfly, don't you? Why did your combat log show your pet going in exceptionally late? You have a stun, snare, knockdown, AND root as a conjuror. Sure, the cast times are 2s or 3s, but a tankpet could have taunted that brig while you tied him up and ran away or attempted to kite. The pet sac has a cast time of half a second. Is it much health back? Not really. Enough to save you? Maybe. I'm not going to sit here and give you advice on how to play your class, but there are things you can do if you have a little warning. You never bothered to answer which classes you can demolish with little trouble. Conjurors are one of the highest DPSing classes in the game. Is it fair to assume that you sometimes gank people? Should they start [I cannot control my vocabulary] on the forums and accuse you of hacking? I can tell you that dueling (no, it's not the same) a conjuror with my SK, seed+plane shift+elemental vestment are pathetically effective. Does that need to be "balanced" also? Do I play a conjuror? Yes. Should you get full fabled only to die in 3 seconds? Frankly, yes. A T2 melee DPSer close enough to hit you should kill you in very little time, regardless of what buffs you have up. Sorcerors and enchanters have a few things things (manashield, for instance, though it seems that this isn't very effective in T7) they can do. Your defense and class-defining trait is your pet, really, not your ability to stand up to a swash/brig or ranger/assassin for extended periods of time in melee. Did he take out your tankpet in 3 seconds? No? Stop [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Also comparisons about the "best geared $class" being healed by "well geared $worstparsinghealerinthegame" losing to the brig doesn't mean much. The presumption would be that said players would be skilled. Did the swash pop en-guarde, inspiration, and fitness? Probably not, or things would have gone differently. I said you ruin games because it's attitudes precisely like yours combined with [I cannot control my vocabulary] on forums which turned EQLive (and is turning WoW's PvP, much as I think WoW sucks) into the [I cannot control my vocabulary] it was at the end. You don't agree with RPS? Too bad. Play another game. Developers should not kowtow to whiny players who would like the balance changed completely just so they stand a better chance. What would you have them do? No more doubleup? No more sailwind? Increase your mitigation or avoidance by a ludicrous percentage? There's no change they can make here without severely upsetting everything else. Frankly, this post is classic. Yes, putting your back to a scout=dead mage. However, both brigs and swashies are much less dependent on positionals than predators, and they have more HP than you. I find it amusing that you think 2 DSes for ~60 each (or whatever amount they actually hit for in PvP) are going to take them down. You simply don't have enough HP, and it's quite likely that even autoattacking you would outdamage the DS. Brigs get snares, yes, and stuns, and a few knockdowns. What's the stun length on your weapon? 30 seconds? Your cast times are long enough that even if you had managed to stun him, you'd likely have gotten the same doubled-up combo. Keep assuming that nobody who plays on a PvE server knows the game mechanics. That'll suit you well. Keep thinking that this is "imbalanced," and that 3 seconds is awful. Then go log into EVE and head to 0.0 Get sniped at 300,000km by a battleship who you know can't possibly make it to your cans for no reason other than that he can. Note: when you get blown in EVE, your ship is gone. You need to buy a new one. If they kill the pod which comes out, you can lose skill points (which come realtime). You're telling me that everybody posting here has a vendetta because you've killed them? Two of your guildies posted against you in this thread. Again, we saw combat logs. You implied people were banned for this (saying that you reported them and haven't seen them in weeks). If you're getting responses to your reports, how about you screenshot them and post them here? Most of all, you refuse to accept the limitations and weaknesses of your chosen class. If you think you're actually getting to me, think again. You can keep making snide comments about my "mudslinging," or that you don't think I'm older and more intelligent than you. I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? </blockquote>Since you missed this before, let's try again. If you cannot rationally answer these questions, just stop posting in this thread. Even if they nerf brigs for just for you (they won't, and they shouldn't), some other scout class is going to do the same thing. So what now? They're not going to give you chain/plate mitigation, they're not going to give you a monk's avoidance, nor will you get mitigation buffs. What can they possibly do to "balance" this?

Firam

04-12-2007, 01:06 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote> <blockquote> I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? </blockquote>Since you missed this before, let's try again. If you cannot rationally answer these questions, just stop posting in this thread. Even if they nerf brigs for just for you (they won't, and they shouldn't), some other scout class is going to do the same thing. So what now? They're not going to give you chain/plate mitigation, they're not going to give you a monk's avoidance, nor will you get mitigation buffs. What can they possibly do to "balance" this? </blockquote> Do you think he has a good answer to any of this? Do you think he's had this Grand Plan for Clothie-Scout PvP Balance and held onto it like some valuable secret for the two weeks this thread has been ripping a hole in the fabric of the rationale-logic continuum? Nope. He's here to whine, complain, and troll until he gets one or two people to step forward and stand with him against the crowd. His fragile ego feeds on our constant posts in this thread. He's getting attention. He likes himself a little bit better now. When he's here he doesn't have to be logged in game, dying to another scout while he's out trying to make a name for himself in solo PvP. Honestly, the only reason I've kept posting in here is that I'm stuck at work (which happens to be on a warship, so I'm stuck here for long periods of time) and can't play EQ. I really do have nothing better to do with myself at 1 in the morning in the middle of the godforsaken ocean than browse these forums. Plus, I made a bet with myself that he'd keep this up for a month before getting bored with it. We're halfway there. =)

Ameniel

04-12-2007, 01:20 PM

<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote> Predictions (in semi-chronological order): 1. Dnice's conjuror shall be featured in at least 10% of the clips. 2. Claims of a mass brigand hax0rfest shall continue to resonate throughout the halls of these forums, despite video evidence to the contrary. 3. Good fun shall be had by all. Well, almost all. Except the dead conjurors. 4. Brigands will evade the nerfbat when devs get ahold of the video and play it, on infinite loop, in the breakroom as office entertainment. The entire text of this forum thread will be printed out and posted next to the TV. Laminated, bound, pamphlet style copies will be placed in the bathroom stalls for that really tough post-Taco Bell relief. 5. Dnice will eventually delete his conjuror in disgust, create a brigand, shortly thereafter realize the shameful error of his ways, and take his own life. Police will find him three days later, face first on his keyboard, with a Double Up macro open on his still-active character's screen. </blockquote> QFERofl, I had to bring this post back up, this is hilarious cause I could really see this happening...<img src="http://warriorlibrarian.com/PIX4/comp_sleep.jpg" border="0">

Bozidar

04-12-2007, 02:37 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Holy semantics, batman. If he read what I wrote 2 posts later, he wouldn't have even opened his mouth(fingers?). You have been unusually rational the past couple of pages, but I guess it's Hyde time, huh? Don't presume to lecture me, especially when you are wrong. The overwhelmingly vast majority of the time, I do not bite unless prodded, lectured, or flamed, period. If I listened to you people, you have me believing that I reply to posts of "Hi Wreakinn" with "DIE MF!!!" Think what you want, villify me if you want, ignore the same things I've written 40 times over, but I have to learn to ignore stupid [I cannot control my vocabulary] comments like these. If you're not directly talking about this topic, kindly go away. </blockquote> I was simply giving an explanation for your irrational fight that was going on. And you can tell me till you're blue in the face about how often you don't bite, but on my first post in this thread i was giving a good suggestion and being helpful, and you attacked for no reason.Oh, and again, i was posting to clarify something, and to honestly call you out on the fact that you DO attack people for no reason, and what do i get back in response? Surprise.. an attack and told to go away.No.

Bozidar

04-12-2007, 02:46 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>A real post from Firamas! See, I knew you could write something intelligent when you weren't too busy trying to flame me. And because the first part of your thread was so nice - a flame-free reply (like I have done to everyone who hasn't started off with it, but no one believes me, so oh well) is yours. </blockquote>Stop kidding yourself.

Bozidar

04-12-2007, 02:49 PM

Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>have you considered it's a problem between the chair and the keyboard?</blockquote> Nice phrase, i'm going to use that.But the OP here is supposedly considered one of the best Conjs on his server. I haven't heard anyone deny his claim of it, anyway.

dnice74

04-12-2007, 03:01 PM

<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote> <blockquote> I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? </blockquote>Since you missed this before, let's try again. If you cannot rationally answer these questions, just stop posting in this thread. Even if they nerf brigs for just for you (they won't, and they shouldn't), some other scout class is going to do the same thing. So what now? They're not going to give you chain/plate mitigation, they're not going to give you a monk's avoidance, nor will you get mitigation buffs. What can they possibly do to "balance" this? </blockquote> Do you think he has a good answer to any of this? Do you think he's had this Grand Plan for Clothie-Scout PvP Balance and held onto it like some valuable secret for the two weeks this thread has been ripping a hole in the fabric of the rationale-logic continuum? Nope. He's here to whine, complain, and troll until he gets one or two people to step forward and stand with him against the crowd. His fragile ego feeds on our constant posts in this thread. He's getting attention. He likes himself a little bit better now. When he's here he doesn't have to be logged in game, dying to another scout while he's out trying to make a name for himself in solo PvP. Honestly, the only reason I've kept posting in here is that I'm stuck at work (which happens to be on a warship, so I'm stuck here for long periods of time) and can't play EQ. I really do have nothing better to do with myself at 1 in the morning in the middle of the godforsaken ocean than browse these forums. Plus, I made a bet with myself that he'd keep this up for a month before getting bored with it. We're halfway there. =) </blockquote>That's cute, pumpkin. But I notice you didn't answer my post, proving my point yet again. Oops!

dnice74

04-12-2007, 03:03 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>A real post from Firamas! See, I knew you could write something intelligent when you weren't too busy trying to flame me. And because the first part of your thread was so nice - a flame-free reply (like I have done to everyone who hasn't started off with it, but no one believes me, so oh well) is yours. </blockquote>Stop kidding yourself.</blockquote>Go back to being rational, Boz.

dnice74

04-12-2007, 03:06 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote <blockquote></blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote>Since you missed this before, let's try again. If you cannot rationally answer these questions, just stop posting in this thread. Even if they nerf brigs for just for you (they won't, and they shouldn't), some other scout class is going to do the same thing. So what now? They're not going to give you chain/plate mitigation, they're not going to give you a monk's avoidance, nor will you get mitigation buffs. What can they possibly do to "balance" this? </blockquote> I apologize in advance for how messy this post is, but for some reason I can't use any editing functions(namely colors) anymore. Here's your answer.

dnice74

04-12-2007, 03:07 PM

Nobody's saying I'm "charging in" to save anything. I thought that perhaps an outside perspective from somebody who you couldn't possibly think was "out to get you" would get through to you and show you how you're acting. Seemingly not. I have no interest in "taking swings," but a PM would have been fundamentally worthless. Sometimes people need to see how they're acting in a public forum, that's all. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No one has to say it. You are. And do you really believe this crap? So someone who doesn't even pvp on this server or IN THIS GAME is going to give me an outside perspective? Then, to top it off, your post was laden with lectures and a few nice personal attacks as well, when I had never said one thing to you. I'd like to see a witty retort for that - no, wait, you can't, because there is no explanation for it other than the fact you wanted to get your licks in. That is why I called you a hypocrite and a fraud, so spare me your utter and complete [Removed for Content] about "how I need to see my actions". Just admit it already; you fool no one, least of all me. Pathetic. With that said - I don't give a [Removed for Content] about your silly insults. But you're full of [Removed for Content] here, and I'm calling you on it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can assume that I haven't played a day of PvP in years, because obviously DAoC isn't around anymore (wrong), WoW isn't around anymore (wrong), and I couldn't possibly play a game with far more brutal PvP than EQ2 (I do, EVE), could I? You can find as many examples of "experience is king" as you want, but generally speaking, the balance in PvP games goes: Scout kills mage Tank kills scout Mage kills tank ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cool, is GU35 the one with battleships? No wait, it's the one with the Horde. Just stop already with how your pvp experience is relevant to this game. Your point is ridiculous, and I will not speak to it anymore. For the record, Mr. I-Don't-Play-EQ2-PvP-But-Feel-Qualified-To-Give-My-Two-Cents, I can kill any class in the game. Your cookie-cutter ideas on how balance should work are boring. On the topic of scouts, though: assassins are still tough, but at least they don't one-shot me anymore, because their Decap ability no longer hits for 7500 a pop. So because the devs BALANCED their abilities against casters, the game is more fun. Did you know that they are going to put a hard cap on other huge abilities as well? Oh wait, you don't PvP. Fortunately, the Devs realize what you don't - there does have to be some modicum of balance, otherwise there is no point. On to brigands - they are practically UNKILLABLE, and not just by int casters. Do you know how many high-end scouts there are running around on Vox right now? I can think of at least a dozen off of the top of my head. One last thing - talked again with the guy who is probably the best brigand on the server (Famine). Same thing - "yeah, you are probably the best conj on the server but you're a conj". My response? Thanked him for the compliment but agreed there is nothing I can do. This is the same guy who admitted they needed to be toned down against casters(not nerfed, I think there is a difference). Would you like to see the screenshot? So if I see a brigand, I suppose I should just run? Pray I'm near a zone so I can get away and then beg people for a group to help me? I don't have to do that with any other class, why should I make an exception? Unlike you, who supposedly thinks it's ok to lie down and lick yourself when a class is unbalanced, I choose to see it balanced. Brigands are not balanced vs. casters. Go read these boards. I'm not going to run away screaming every time a brigand is within 10 meters. Actually, I have to do that now pretty much unless I know it's someone with inferior gear, and they still can give me a hard time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Priests vary somewhat, and I'm not precisely sure where they fit in EQ2, but you don't play a priest, and I made no assumptions about them. As I mentioned, it's always been this way, in every fantasy game, though exceptional skill or gear can tip the balance. Of course, anybody getting the jump makes all the difference, but you have butterfly, don't you? Why did your combat log show your pet going in exceptionally late? You have a stun, snare, knockdown, AND root as a conjuror. Sure, the cast times are 2s or 3s, but a tankpet could have taunted that brig while you tied him up and ran away or attempted to kite. The pet sac has a cast time of half a second. Is it much health back? Not really. Enough to save you? Maybe. I'm not going to sit here and give you advice on how to play your class, but there are things you can do if you have a little warning. You never bothered to answer which classes you can demolish with little trouble. Conjurors are one of the highest DPSing classes in the game. Is it fair to assume that you sometimes gank people? Should they start [I cannot control my vocabulary] on the forums and accuse you of hacking? I can tell you that dueling (no, it's not the same) a conjuror with my SK, seed+plane shift+elemental vestment are pathetically effective. Does that need to be "balanced" also? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Again - all theory, no real-world experience. Actually , my cast times are even quicker(which cost me over 20 AA's), else it would be even more of a joke. bfly totems - i'm not even going to grace that with an answer pboae - situational, lvl 58 spell, easily resisted stun - same, magic-based snare - this is where your lack of experience annoys me. did you know(nevermind) that brigands get a snare AND in-combat run speed? Even with him snared, I'm STILL slower than he is, and they can dispel it. If it's resisted, I'm a corpse. If I use anti-snare/root, AND see them coming from a mile off, AND can land a snare of my own, then boy, i'm a house! A good brigand will ALWAYS find a way to get to you. The tankpet can taunt a brig off me for a split second, but not long enough before he has DPS'd me to kingdom come. And then I have HIS pets taunting me off....I doubt mine even do such a good job. Pet sac kills my DPS. Fights are ALL about burst, unless it is conj on healer (my favorite).Tell me how to play my class? Oh brother. Yes, we are among the highest DPS'ing classes in the game IN LONG FIGHTS. PvP, my bluebie friend, is about BURST. Who can I demolish? SK's with no HT up, or who I manage to block with stoneskin. Most assassins now that I've learned a few tricks, as long as they don't have dc/kb up. Coercers. Necros. All but the best wizards (a fun fight if they have MS, otherwise a joke). All bards. Tanks. All but the best zerkers. Almost every healer on the server. But I do this with skill, not op abilities. Many of these fights are fun, taking down healers takes on the order of 10 minutes because the only way I can kill them is to run them out of mana, for example. What you are failing to see here is something I have said already - if a class needs to be made stronger or weaker, then balance it, too. To use bards as an example - they flat out suck - but they suck against EVERYONE. So nerf conjurors? Ok. Yes, SK's are weak against us too - but i get roasted by PT just like everyone else, So yeah, nerf conjurors. There are a LOT of balanced matchups - just because I have listed those classes doesn't mean they haven't kicked my [Removed for Content] into next week, either. I never said PvP was broken, I said int casters have no chance against brigs. Don't try to muddle this up any more than it already is. The devs do a good job for the most part, and I really enjoy playing the PvP side of this game. The problem with brigs pales in comparison to the problem I have with the population of this server. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do I play a conjuror? Yes. ----------------------------- On a blue server. Next. ----------------------------- Should you get full fabled only to die in 3 seconds? Frankly, yes. A T2 melee DPSer close enough to hit you should kill you in very little time, regardless of what buffs you have up. Sorcerors and enchanters have a few things things (manashield, for instance, though it seems that this isn't very effective in T7) they can do. Your defense and class-defining trait is your pet, really, not your ability to stand up to a swash/brig or ranger/assassin for extended periods of time in melee. Did he take out your tankpet in 3 seconds? No? Stop [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Also comparisons about the "best geared $class" being healed by "well geared $worstparsinghealerinthegame" losing to the brig doesn't mean much. The presumption would be that said players would be skilled. Did the swash pop en-guarde, inspiration, and fitness? Probably not, or things would have gone differently. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, I should? Ok. So what do you suggest I do then? Let me guess...."l2p"? Am I a sorceror? Do I have manashield? Stop [Removed for Content]? Are you brain-damaged? So because my pet doesn't get whacked in PvP, it's all good? roflmao. Again - stop with the smoke-and-mirrors about swashies. They are op too, but we aren't talking about them. Next. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I said you ruin games because it's attitudes precisely like yours combined with [I cannot control my vocabulary] on forums which turned EQLive (and is turning WoW's PvP, much as I think WoW sucks) into the [I cannot control my vocabulary] it was at the end. You don't agree with RPS? Too bad. Play another game. Developers should not kowtow to whiny players who would like the balance changed completely just so they stand a better chance. What would you have them do? No more doubleup? No more sailwind? Increase your mitigation or avoidance by a ludicrous percentage? There's no change they can make here without severely upsetting everything else. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EQ1 PvP sucked even more for conjurors when i played(thru pop)- so? I can do TONS more PvP-wise in this game. My class is very powerful - but again, I'm talking about scouts. Quit this "whiny" bs that you keep spouting - it is a pathetic load of bunk and for someone so erudite as yourself (/snicker), you should be ashamed for even typing this paragraph. People like me, who want balance and fun fights, ruin EQ2. Your arguments about what they should or shouldn't do are equally [Removed for Content] stupid - so if something is broken, they should leave it in? No problem, by your logic people shouldn't have whined when my pet used to kill people while I practically sat there afk. Yeah, that's a lot of fun. Your ideas are so incredibly flawed I could vomit. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Frankly, this post is classic. Yes, putting your back to a scout=dead mage. However, both brigs and swashies are much less dependent on positionals than predators, and they have more HP than you. I find it amusing that you think 2 DSes for ~60 each (or whatever amount they actually hit for in PvP) are going to take them down. You simply don't have enough HP, and it's quite likely that even autoattacking you would outdamage the DS. Brigs get snares, yes, and stuns, and a few knockdowns. What's the stun length on your weapon? 30 seconds? Your cast times are long enough that even if you had managed to stun him, you'd likely have gotten the same doubled-up combo. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't say they would take them down, you [Removed for Content]. But they do help. I have a 30 second stun????? What? ROFLx50. Do you mean range, or recast perhaps? Finally - no, because I spent a fuckton in AA's, they are between 1-1.5 seconds - IN WHICH TIME A BRIGAND CAN HIT ME FOR 2 ATTACKS ALONE THAT DO 2600+ (MA/DEV). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keep assuming that nobody who plays on a PvE server knows the game mechanics. That'll suit you well. Keep thinking that this is "imbalanced," and that 3 seconds is awful. Then go log into EVE and head to 0.0 Get sniped at 300,000km by a battleship who you know can't possibly make it to your cans for no reason other than that he can. Note: when you get blown in EVE, your ship is gone. You need to buy a new one. If they kill the pod which comes out, you can lose skill points (which come realtime). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi. I don't give a flying [Removed for Content] about EVE. Your pointless analogies are about as ludicrous as Shaq playing one-on-one with Hawking. Let me type this all out in big, pretty letters, because you clearly are not as bright as you let on. YOU DON'T PLAY THIS GAME. YOU ARE NO ONE TO SAY WHAT IS IMBALANCED, BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW. Time and time again you subject us to your horrific ideas with your responses. Please. Just. Stop. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're telling me that everybody posting here has a vendetta because you've killed them? Two of your guildies posted against you in this thread. Again, we saw combat logs. You implied people were banned for this (saying that you reported them and haven't seen them in weeks). If you're getting responses to your reports, how about you screenshot them and post them here? Most of all, you refuse to accept the limitations and weaknesses of your chosen class. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did I say everyone??? Quote it. What? You can't? Because I didn't? Huh? Hey genius - there was one "guildie" who posted against me - who all but admitted that he posted in this thread because he didn't like my argument. His mains are both freeps, guaranteed. Bzzzzzzt. Thanks for playing, here is a toaster. But wait - so I should just accept my weaknesses then and roll over dead? Great attitude!!! Awesome!!! But wait again - IF I SHOULD LOSE ANYWAY BECAUSE RPS RULES, WHY EVEN BOTHER? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think you're actually getting to me, think again. You can keep making snide comments about my "mudslinging," or that you don't think I'm older and more intelligent than you. I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I make snide comments because you are a condescending, pompous windbag who came into this thread for no other reason than to flame me, then passes off his game theory as sound advice. You are by far the biggest charlatan in this thread, and I daresay, the entire board. I have no idea how you are off these boards, but as it pertains to them - your opinion means as much to me as a bucket of warm [Removed for Content], and I don't like you. Go level up that toon and come back when you know what you are talking about. Bye, bluebie.

Groma

04-12-2007, 03:07 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>have you considered it's a problem between the chair and the keyboard?</blockquote> Nice phrase, i'm going to use that.But the OP here is supposedly considered one of the best Conjs on his server. I haven't heard anyone deny his claim of it, anyway.</blockquote>That would have been a FAR cry 6 months ago, the problem is now that there are like 3 conjurors that actually pvp left on Vox. I would definitely say Eureka > Wreakinn, hands down.

Bozidar

04-12-2007, 03:08 PM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>That would have been a FAR cry 6 months ago, the problem is now that there are like 3 conjurors that actually pvp left on Vox. I would definitely say Eureka > Wreakinn, hands down. </blockquote> so he's in the top two? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

dnice74

04-12-2007, 03:18 PM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>have you considered it's a problem between the chair and the keyboard?</blockquote> Nice phrase, i'm going to use that.But the OP here is supposedly considered one of the best Conjs on his server. I haven't heard anyone deny his claim of it, anyway.</blockquote>That would have been a FAR cry 6 months ago, the problem is now that there are like 3 conjurors that actually pvp left on Vox. I would definitely say Eureka > Wreakinn, hands down. </blockquote>Gromann, I have nothing against Eureka, and I daresay he has nothing against me. He is a badass, no question, and our fights have always been honorable and fun. Furthermore, he is at a disadvantage because of his gear now that he is exile. But why don't you ask him who won the last two out of 3? Don't let your bias toward your guildmate cloud the issue.

Groma

04-12-2007, 03:20 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>have you considered it's a problem between the chair and the keyboard?</blockquote> Nice phrase, i'm going to use that.But the OP here is supposedly considered one of the best Conjs on his server. I haven't heard anyone deny his claim of it, anyway.</blockquote>That would have been a FAR cry 6 months ago, the problem is now that there are like 3 conjurors that actually pvp left on Vox. I would definitely say Eureka > Wreakinn, hands down. </blockquote>Gromann, I have nothing against Eureka, and I daresay he has nothing against me. He is a badass, no question, and our fights have always been honorable and fun. Furthermore, he is at a disadvantage because of his gear now that he is exile. But why don't you ask him who won the last two out of 3? Don't let your bias toward your guildmate cloud the issue. </blockquote>I've seen him pvp, i've seen you pvp, thats where i form my opinion. Honestly couldn't care less about who wins a duel between you, because it certainly doesn't prove which of you is the better Conj, it just proves which of you can kill a conj easier.

dnice74

04-12-2007, 03:33 PM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>have you considered it's a problem between the chair and the keyboard?</blockquote> Nice phrase, i'm going to use that.But the OP here is supposedly considered one of the best Conjs on his server. I haven't heard anyone deny his claim of it, anyway.</blockquote>That would have been a FAR cry 6 months ago, the problem is now that there are like 3 conjurors that actually pvp left on Vox. I would definitely say Eureka > Wreakinn, hands down. </blockquote>Gromann, I have nothing against Eureka, and I daresay he has nothing against me. He is a badass, no question, and our fights have always been honorable and fun. Furthermore, he is at a disadvantage because of his gear now that he is exile. But why don't you ask him who won the last two out of 3? Don't let your bias toward your guildmate cloud the issue. </blockquote>I've seen him pvp, i've seen you pvp, thats where i form my opinion. Honestly couldn't care less about who wins a duel between you, because it certainly doesn't prove which of you is the better Conj, it just proves which of you can kill a conj easier. </blockquote>Keep in mind that most of the time you see me PvP, it's usually me getting rolled by a group of 6 because I like to roll solo. Not complaining. Nor do you see what I do on a raid. And from a gear perspective - there is no contest, but with the mobs you guys are taking down, I expect that to change, and I'm looking forward to it. Other than that - I disagree with your "hands down" comment, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Syslik

04-12-2007, 03:39 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>-snip-</blockquote>You realize that in your long "LALALALALA" rant rife with personal attacks and an obstinate insistence that PvP experiences in other games are somehow not applicable (as if it's ever not about burst damage), obvious ignorance of how classes were supposed to be in EQ1 (necros were one of the highest DPSing classes in the game, but smart pet classes kited things, except for beastlords and you treated your pet like an extended, backstabbing DoT, whereas mages spent their time in Droga [a Kunark expansion] pet tanking trash for 1% AAXP while I aggro kited in PoF/MPG), and no grasp on reality. See, I even bolded things for you. Here: I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? Does that clarify what part of my post I gave a [Removed for Content] about your response to? Also, you need some kind of sarcasm detector. Comments about "60 second" stuns were meant to illustrate the futility of your point, since you just clearly said the brig would kill you anyway. So what good does autoattacking in hope of a stun do? I'm so glad you decided to enlighten me about my own class, though! I mean, brigands don't get a snare or in-combat run speed buff on blue servers. What news! Here's the thing: playing a conj on a blue server doesn't make me any less knowledgeable than you about the class, and DPS classes did the same thing in EQ1 (where I played a necro on SZ) and WoW (where I played a rogue). The point of sacrificing your pet and booking it is to live, not to win. If you get jumped, and he's in melee range before you can do anything, you run quite literally, for your life. Honestly, until you can respond to the queries above, reasonably, you have no ground to stand on. It is not "balance" for anybody with cloth mitigation to stand against a scout popping his cooldowns and doubling up long enough to come back. Your mitigation is trash. You wear cloth. That's all there is to it. Yes, because your pet doesn't get whacked in PvP, it's all good. The majority of the playerbase is on blue servers. It's the same codebase. The balance of the game does not revolve around PvP. It's all well and good that they put a cap on high-damage abilities (sniper shot, decap, HT) against PCs. That's an easy thing to fix, and it affected us on blue servers in duels also. MA/DEV is not likely to get capped. I came into this thread because you are precisely what you accused me of being (a condescending [Removed for Content]), and you've spent 23 pages flaming anybody who disagrees with you (with the added bonus of calling all of us flamers and trolls).

Titan-X

04-12-2007, 04:10 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sharpteath@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>have you considered it's a problem between the chair and the keyboard?</blockquote> Nice phrase, i'm going to use that.But the OP here is supposedly considered one of the best Conjs on his server. I haven't heard anyone deny his claim of it, anyway.</blockquote>That would have been a FAR cry 6 months ago, the problem is now that there are like 3 conjurors that actually pvp left on Vox. I would definitely say Eureka > Wreakinn, hands down. </blockquote>Gromann, I have nothing against Eureka, and I daresay he has nothing against me. He is a badass, no question, and our fights have always been honorable and fun. Furthermore, he is at a disadvantage because of his gear now that he is exile. But why don't you ask him who won the last two out of 3? Don't let your bias toward your guildmate cloud the issue. </blockquote>Lets do a little comparison: Most pvp kills Vox Eureka- #1 VoxWreakinn- #7Most PvP deathsEureka- #29 Vox Wreakinn-#5 on VoxSide note, wreakinn is in the top 50 worldwide in pvp deaths (#31) so just the cold hard facts alone would contest his claim to be a top conjuror. But you made it personal when you started trying to say your better then my friend Eureka.. I can compile more statistics for you if you would like that are contrary to your claims of greatness

Bozidar

04-12-2007, 04:14 PM

gromann most any clothy that solo's is going to have a lot of pvp deaths. does your friend group pvp more than wreakin?

Titan-X

04-12-2007, 04:23 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>gromann most any clothy that solo's is going to have a lot of pvp deaths. does your friend group pvp more than wreakin?</blockquote> i am not gromann, but if we go by what he has stated over and over through out his post..Wreakin groups. He has contended that is the issue from the beginning. That people can gank his group of 3 or more..Stacking the above data with the fact he has admitted to be defunct at his job in a group setting../shrug

Xova

04-12-2007, 05:12 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>gromann most any clothy that solo's is going to have a lot of pvp deaths. does your friend group pvp more than wreakin?</blockquote>Well as you're fond of pointing out, EQ2 is a group game, and for Exiles grouping is essential in pvp so they don't accidentally attack each other. Beyond that though, I remember Eureka being one of our regular Q enemies back when we still had Oda up and running, and he was almost always solo or with Avara. We rarely saw him as part of a bigger group except for a few occasions when he ran around with Kalgore.

dnice74

04-12-2007, 05:19 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: It gives me wood to be crushed in debates. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------You realize that in your long "LALALALALA" rant rife with personal attacks and an obstinate insistence that PvP experiences in other games are somehow not applicable (as if it's ever not about burst damage), obvious ignorance of how classes were supposed to be in EQ1 (necros were one of the highest DPSing classes in the game, but smart pet classes kited things, except for beastlords and you treated your pet like an extended, backstabbing DoT, whereas mages spent their time in Droga [a Kunark expansion] pet tanking trash for 1% AAXP while I aggro kited in PoF/MPG), and no grasp on reality. See, I even bolded things for you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- See, what I love about logic is how you can't debate against it. Fact: you came into this thread and started with the personal attacks. I see no reason to be polite to you. Fact: you are a very poor representative for the opposing team here with your less-than-imposing knowledge(I'm being kind here) of how EQ2 PvP works. You can paint it up however you like, skippy. No, seriously, keep arguing. Tell me how that toe tickles your uvula. You continue to display nothing but your arrogance. Maybe you'd like to go teach classes at West Point because you read Art of War and are a great shot, too. But no, keep up with how things work in EQ1, We all love your pleonastic, irrelevant and silly diatribes about how [Removed for Content] works in EVE, EQ1, WoW, etc. What's next? Mah-jongg? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actual evidence? What do you need, a road map to point you to how this is unbalanced? I gave you a combat log, but you're obstinately suggesting I get you more? Go look on this very page about "how caster pvp has changed", and read what other casters are saying. Is there a giant conspiracy here? Are the people in this thread - yourself included - who are saying that "RPS IS KING AND SCOUTS SHOULD CRUSH CASTERS" lying too? Oh wait, did someone just get stuck in a trap? Don't gnaw off your foot, I'll get you help. So I'm lying and you need more evidence, but yet that's the way it should be, huh? Which is it? Or would you like to embarass yourself some more? Please feel free, this is funny as hell. I gave you a TON of reasons, you halfwit. Is it FUN killing someone in one shot? Sure it is - sometimes. This is a video game, not chess. However, it would get awwwwfully boring slaughtering everyone in 2 seconds. Doesn't anyone want a good fight anymore, or have you all become so used to pushing the "I win" button/macro that you don't know any better? Aren't you the same fool - dare I say it - WHINING about battleships in your precious EVE? How are they going to balance it? I don't know. Increase mit? Tweak resists again? Hey wait a second - why should they have to? RPS FTW, right? Your constant contradictions bore me. Why don't YOU tell me what they should do? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, you need some kind of sarcasm detector. Comments about "60 second" stuns were meant to illustrate the futility of your point, since you just clearly said the brig would kill you anyway. So what good does autoattacking in hope of a stun do? I'm so glad you decided to enlighten me about my own class, though! I mean, brigands don't get a snare or in-combat run speed buff on blue servers. What news! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------No, now hold on there. First of all, Lord Ritalin, I already said why you go into auto-attack. It helps with positionals. Do brigs have NO positionals? Is that what you're saying? What? Necros in EQ1....nevermind. Secondly - like I said IN MY LAST POST, a good brig will always catch up to you, and when they do, it's over. Finally - have you heard of track, peanut?If you knew that, you horse's-[Removed for Content], then WHY DID YOU EVEN ASK ME ABOUT COUNTERS IN THE FIRST PLACE? Seriously, this is worse than my toon jumping a group of level 17's in TT. Your arguments are a t r a i n - w r e c k. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's the thing: playing a conj on a blue server doesn't make me any less knowledgeable than you about the class, and DPS classes did the same thing in EQ1 (where I played a necro on SZ) and WoW (where I played a rogue). The point of sacrificing your pet and booking it is to live, not to win. If you get jumped, and he's in melee range before you can do anything, you run quite literally, for your life. Honestly, until you can respond to the queries above, reasonably, you have no ground to stand on. It is not "balance" for anybody with cloth mitigation to stand against a scout popping his cooldowns and doubling up long enough to come back. Your mitigation is trash. You wear cloth. That's all there is to it.------------------------------------------------------------This is starting to hurt me deep inside. Are we talking about the conj class, or PvP? Which is it? And there is the answer!! Run for your life! Balance is fixed! Hooray!!! Cowardice rocks! I never said I wanted to be a plate tank. But I have NO answer to what they can do. Snares are next to useless because they can STILL get to me in time to kick my [Removed for Content]. The one time I beat the oft-mentioned Famine, he was a ways off, didn't believe I was actually attacking, and STILL got me to about 10% before I beat him. Again - but if scouts are just supposed to kill us anyway, why even bother to discuss strats, eh? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes, because your pet doesn't get whacked in PvP, it's all good. The majority of the playerbase is on blue servers. It's the same codebase. The balance of the game does not revolve around PvP. It's all well and good that they put a cap on high-damage abilities (sniper shot, decap, HT) against PCs. That's an easy thing to fix, and it affected us on blue servers in duels also. MA/DEV is not likely to get capped. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Really? There are more PvE players? Holy tomatoes, Batman! Call the Relevance Force! Just shut up. I came into this thread because you are precisely what you accused me of being (a condescending [I cannot control my vocabulary]), and you've spent 23 pages flaming anybody who disagrees with you (with the added bonus of calling all of us flamers and trolls).Thanks for admitting that YOU CAME INTO THIS THREAD PURELY TO TROLL. Whoops! That [Removed for Content] logic again! In internet parlance: owned, pure and simple. Thanks, this will help me /sniff with my /sob inferiorty complex. /noonelovesmebbq If you would like to make yourself look even more foolish, please feel free. Noob.

dnice74

04-12-2007, 05:34 PM

Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bozidar wrote: </blockquote></blockquote>Lets do a little comparison: Most pvp kills Vox Eureka- #1 VoxWreakinn- #7Most PvP deathsEureka- #29 Vox Wreakinn-#5 on VoxSide note, wreakinn is in the top 50 worldwide in pvp deaths (#31) so just the cold hard facts alone would contest his claim to be a top conjuror. But you made it personal when you started trying to say your better then my friend Eureka.. I can compile more statistics for you if you would like that are contrary to your claims of greatness </blockquote>Eureka is a great conjuror, and I have nothing but respect for him. None of this is a flame directed at him. He has also played a lot longer on this server than I have, and probably isn't masochistic when it comes to soloing when he knows he's going to get smoked so often. I'll fight entire bot groups or die 4 times in a row against a tough player if I think I can win - just to learn about the opponent, or just for kicks. Do I like dying? Hell no. Do I roll in a group like most of the (sane) people on this server? Hell no. Ultimately - I do not care about dying or protecting my title like people do(that means everyone, not Eureka). Wreakinn was powerleveled to 70, because I like to play the high-end game. On the way up, he was probably ganked more times than you can comprehend. People farmed me just like bots, because I was always grinding it out in the same spots. At 60? 65? I was 350 wins and 500 losses(I don't remember, honestly). So factor that in. Throw in the fact that dying means little to me and that tidbit, and now you can look at stats all you want.Conjurors die a lot, and I'm fine with it because of what they can do. I might have been a little fidgety about protecting my title when I was Champ, but honestly, I don't [Removed for Content] care atm. I have better gear at the moment(I expect that to change), as many or more AA's, and quite frankly, I beat him to a pulp the last 2 times we fought. Now if you're all quite done, we are talking about brigs vs. int casters here, peanut-gallery. Let's leave the Vox Conj contest out of this.

dnice74

04-12-2007, 05:35 PM

dnice74

04-12-2007, 05:36 PM

Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>gromann most any clothy that solo's is going to have a lot of pvp deaths. does your friend group pvp more than wreakin?</blockquote> i am not gromann, but if we go by what he has stated over and over through out his post..Wreakin groups. He has contended that is the issue from the beginning. That people can gank his group of 3 or more..Stacking the above data with the fact he has admitted to be defunct at his job in a group setting../shrug</blockquote>I run solo probably 85-90% of the time, ask anyone on the server. Of course I group, but if you think it is more than I run solo, go away.

Qanil

04-12-2007, 05:37 PM

I know a few people on Naggy that are on the list of people with the most deaths that would cream the vast majority of the people they encounter, doesn't matter what class.deaths mean nothing... well unless of course you only die, you gotta win one once in a while.

dnice74

04-12-2007, 05:46 PM

Hey Sharpteath, look what I found:<a href="mailto:----Dodad@Vox" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">----Dodad@Vox</a> wrote:followed by-------"my friend Eureka"Guess we know what guild you're in, huh? Gee, I wonder why you jumped into this thread to begin with? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Care to tell us who those 70 alts are now?Just go away. Your attempts to flame me are silly, and this isn't the QG vs. Reckoning thread.

Titan-X

04-12-2007, 05:54 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Hey Sharpteath, look what I found:<a href="mailto:----Dodad@Vox" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">----Dodad@Vox</a> wrote:followed by-------"my friend Eureka"Guess we know what guild you're in, huh? Gee, I wonder why you jumped into this thread to begin with? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Care to tell us who those 70 alts are now?Just go away. Your attempts to flame me are silly, and this isn't the QG vs. Reckoning thread. </blockquote>I guess you think you have it all figured out? Hmm but I wonder, do you know anything really. You call this discussion (loose use of the term) a conversation about brigs vs. int casters. Yet nothing in the last 340 post by you has been constructive short of a couple sentences here and there. When backed into a corner you have blasted your way out with negative remarks and flame's instead of a shred of evidence or a valid point. You have derailed your own topic countless times yet you seem to try and take the high road when you feel the "peanut" gallery nipping at your heals. BTW- Eureka didn't always play on PvP... Still think you have it all figured out? Some of us have been around longer then a couple months to make a friend or two..

Groma

04-12-2007, 06:08 PM

Watch it, Wreakinn will have you removed from guild for backtalking him on the boards!

Titan-X

04-12-2007, 06:17 PM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Watch it, Wreakinn will have you removed from guild for backtalking him on the boards! </blockquote> He has made that threat over and over in PM. I wonder though what kind of guild or guildie would be so full or hate and spite when coming to an open forum to discuss something and when someone from his guild doesn't share his opinion they go on a rant. What does this say about this person, and his representation of his guild to the public? I have openly tried to discuss this topic, joined by countless others, we have made points of contention and in return we get verbally attacked. I might add his verbose abuse of the English language is humorous, and personally I am laughing my a** off when ever he graces us with a new response. I guess I have found myself in a guild in which I cant voice my opinion openly with out his permission.. I can think of a few choice words that come to mind.

Syslik

04-12-2007, 06:34 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>blah blah, personal attacks and pointless rambling </blockquote> Honestly, just: I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? That's it. You didn't give a response, other than a too-long diatribe on why you think nobody knows a [Removed for Content] thing other than you. You asked me to give suggestions? 1) I don't PvP in EQ2, so I'd consider my suggestions without merit, but they amount to RPS anyway. 2) I don't have 25 pages of [Removed for Content] with no discernible objective in mind. Honestly, give it some thought. What can they do that will not severely unbalance the game by nerfing brigs (who've already been nerfed once) or buffing conjurors to ludicrous heights?

Yage

04-12-2007, 06:45 PM

<cite>Qanil wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know a few people on Naggy that are on the list of people with the most deaths that would cream the vast majority of the people they encounter, doesn't matter what class.deaths mean nothing... well unless of course you only die, you gotta win one once in a while.</blockquote> As with this clothie int caster on Venekor... #1 Non-bot deaths worldwide, and i can smack a brig down.

dnice74

04-12-2007, 11:19 PM

Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Hey Sharpteath, look what I found:<a href="mailto:----Dodad@Vox" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">----Dodad@Vox</a> wrote:followed by-------"my friend Eureka"Guess we know what guild you're in, huh? Gee, I wonder why you jumped into this thread to begin with? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Care to tell us who those 70 alts are now?Just go away. Your attempts to flame me are silly, and this isn't the QG vs. Reckoning thread. </blockquote>I guess you think you have it all figured out? Hmm but I wonder, do you know anything really. You call this discussion (loose use of the term) a conversation about brigs vs. int casters. Yet nothing in the last 340 post by you has been constructive short of a couple sentences here and there. When backed into a corner you have blasted your way out with negative remarks and flame's instead of a shred of evidence or a valid point. You have derailed your own topic countless times yet you seem to try and take the high road when you feel the "peanut" gallery nipping at your heals. BTW- Eureka didn't always play on PvP... Still think you have it all figured out? Some of us have been around longer then a couple months to make a friend or two.. </blockquote> Dodad/sharp/faeded/random_reckoning_member_33, you have contributed nothing, and I do mean nothing, to this debate. You jumped in to flame, made a few horrifically clunky posts as insults(much like your pms), and have done nothing since but step up to bash me some more when you thought I was bashing Eureka - which I didn't. I was actually quite gracious, because I thought you guys were pretty decent for the most part. Furthermore twinkle-toes: I don't kick anyone out of the guild, as I do not have the power. I just wanted to see if you'd admit to who your toon was, and you called my bluff. As for you getting kicked out? Who knows, and who cares. I know exactly who you are now, I know who invited you, and for some reason, they think quite highly of you. It's up to them and the generals to decide, not me - I still think they will find your constant comments about how you don't care about the guild hilarious. A pity, too - the other Reckoning people in the guild who are there to take a break(probably from Mr. Overbearing) are pretty nice. Grats on potentially ruining it for them, too. For a guild "you don't care about at all", you people have a lot of alts here for some reason, and maybe it's time we put a stop to that. My whole point with exposing you was to make you look stupid in front of all the boo-birds - now everyone knows that you are just another fp/exile/troll/brigand/scout/crusader who wanted to jump on the bashing bandwagon. Ahhh, Gromann. Can't keep it civil for long, can you kiddo? Yours was one of the venomous posts that got [Removed for Content] stirred up in the first place, and for no reason, I might add - no wait, I know what it is. You are always in the center of flame wars on the Vox boards, figured maybe you'd start one here, too. Well grats, because it was peoples' posts like yours who set me on the defensive in the first place. I thought that you were being rational in your last post, so I figured I'd turn the other cheek and ignore your other bs just to be adult about it. But, your true troll nature comes out yet again, eh sparky? The guild [Removed for Content] is over, kids. This is neither the time nor the place, and quite frankly, both of you bore me. The last word is yours - there will be no words to either of you, unless either of you dipshit trolls actually have something RELEVANT to add. Try me. Faabio treatment! Poof! You have become better at Ignoring Stupid Teens(41)!

Firam

04-12-2007, 11:48 PM

<blockquote>Syslik@Guk wrote: Honestly, just: I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? That's it. You didn't give a response, other than a too-long diatribe on why you think nobody knows a [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing other than you. You asked me to give suggestions? 1) I don't PvP in EQ2, so I'd consider my suggestions without merit, but they amount to RPS anyway. 2) I don't have 25 pages of [I cannot control my vocabulary] with no discernible objective in mind. Honestly, give it some thought. What can they do that will not severely unbalance the game by nerfing brigs (who've already been nerfed once) or buffing conjurors to ludicrous heights? </blockquote> My future contributions to this thread will consist of quoting this block of text over, and over, and over, (and over) again until Wreakinn contributes something of value to this thread for once and answers it. He'll keep throwing verbal darts at me for "not answering his questions" [that I answered 250-some-odd-posts ago anyway] , keep ignoring the fact that he has yet to contribute the one simple thing which we're asking of him (valid suggestions for balance), and keep up the whine charade. I predict at least 34 more posts from him in the next week where he refuses to answer a valid question (posed in a rational, flame-less manner) and instead calls the person in question one (or more) of the following: "troll" "[Removed for Content]" "kid" "flamer" "idiot" Bottom line: Wreakinn, until you can give a satisfactory answer to "Syslik's bolded questions" (we'll call it SBQ from now on for short, since we'll probably have to reference it a lot) above, your presence in this thread means nothing. You can redeem yourself for literally 2 weeks of wasted thread by answering this. Most of us have also asked this question of you, in some shape or form, and it's been blown off every time. The clock will start in T minus 5.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1.. Begin! We're waiting...

dnice74

04-13-2007, 12:56 AM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>blah blah, personal attacks and pointless rambling </blockquote> Honestly, just: I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? That's it. You didn't give a response, other than a too-long diatribe on why you think nobody knows a [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing other than you. You asked me to give suggestions? 1) I don't PvP in EQ2, so I'd consider my suggestions without merit, but they amount to RPS anyway. 2) I don't have 25 pages of [I cannot control my vocabulary] with no discernible objective in mind. Honestly, give it some thought. What can they do that will not severely unbalance the game by nerfing brigs (who've already been nerfed once) or buffing conjurors to ludicrous heights? </blockquote>It's ok, Sys. You can bow out. I would too, had I just been destroyed in that fashion. Your points were horrific, you have had no answers to anything I have said, and even worse - you are ignoring the fact that I answered your cute bolded little sentence already. Call me a liar if it helps you sleep at night; first of all, I DID provide evidence, secondly, I shouldn't have to provide it every time this happens, finally, suggesting I'm not telling the truth does not help the fact that you have no leg to stand on here. See, I debase you because you're a hypocritical [Removed for Content]. You are debasing me to try to distract, because you have no point. But no, really, keep it up. I also suggest you go back and read my last response, lamb chop. I'm astonished that you can ignore the two novellas I wrote, then sit here and repeat yourself like a parrot because you have no rebuttals. "Gee, maybe if I repeat myself, and be really firm about it, he'll go away!" roflmaoI have provided reasons that make sense for a while now, but here they are again - it is not fun, balanced, or interesting in any way, shape or form when one class can utterly annihilate another in the fashion that brigs do MOST int casters, apparently coercers and illies are the boogeyman or something. Fine, fix them against necros, conjs, wizards, and warlocks then - or should they all just run away when they see scouts, which are ALL OVER THE PLACE BECAUSE PEOPLE KNOW HOW OP THEY ARE. Why are most Vox scouts dreads+ and most casters destroyer-? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Destroying the balance for the rest of the game?? Oh, so screw my class then, gotcha. How do we fix it? Well that opens up a can of worms, so thanks for yet another opportunity to make you look stupid. "Man, Pepsi, your new Jazz soda tastes like camel (self-edit, don't know if the censor would pick it up and I don't want to get booted. pick something nasty and add it yourself)""Oh, how should we change that, Mr. Consumer?""Well, first you should <insert formula for making soda here>, then <discuss marketing strategy>.........."I am the CONSUMER, halfwit. I provide FEEDBACK, not sit around thinking of how to balance 24 different classes. They have done a good job with that, by the way - I want to make it perfectly clear that I like my class and obviously love the game as a whole. I constantly marvel at the little touches the devs/designers put into this game, but this is one glaring imbalance that I think should be rectified. When people were being decapped for 7500, should I have just said "HAY MAN IT'Z RSP, DEEL WITH IT!" No, I debated for 30 pages with morons like you, and that's enough of my time, thanks. You don't think they read these threads? It's free testing for them! You think the boards are here so we can all sing Kumbaya??? And as a pre-emptive strike(someone will be dumb enough to say it): no, I am not saying I got decap nerfed. My point is this - RPS AND BALANCE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. If a brig has the upper hand on me, fine. Go go RPS! If I have no means with which to beat the brig, then it's [Removed for Content]. There will probably always be imbalances, but ignoring them and just saying "oh well, it would screw up the rest of the game, leave it!" is NOT the answer. Furthermore, I'll say it again - why do you think they nerf certain classes? IF THEY AGREED WITH YOUR RPS CRAP, THEN NOTHING WOULD GET NERFED. Do you get it yet? Is this sinking in that tiny collection of ganglia yet? But wait, I'll even give some suggestions - anything to shut you the hell up and go slinking off. ALL OF THESE ARE FOR PVP ONLY, CASTERS VS. BRIGS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM, I DON'T CARE. THIS IS JUST BECAUSE I'M A CRUEL MEANIE AND WANT TO MAKE SYSLIK GO AWAY. Would it be that the devs paid me for this, but they do not hire abrasive [Removed for Content](when provoked by the flame-war crowd, at least).Raise recast time of double-up - against casters, not PvE, not healers or tanks or whatever the hell brigs might struggle with. Double-up is what, a minute recast? What's MA, 45 seconds? Less? Not going to help too much, but it would keep them from taking out entire groups every minute. Plane shift is 12 minutes, stoneskin is five(a good number, actually). Why do they get such an uber combo every minute?Lower damage of MA/Dev - same, would help int casters from being obliterated as quickly. They cap big hits, but they seriously need to look at some of the "little big hits" as well. Tweak resists a bit more, landing a snare on a brig is like trying to get a date with Jessica Alba. Landing a stun? Orgy at the Playboy mansion. But you know what? Their stun ALWAYS hits, and so does their root. So if I go anti-stun, great, that can help, but I'm screwed if he roots me or snares me. Dev and MA - mitigation of wet Kleenex. As if 1800 mit was not lame enough, now I get get the mitigation of water vapor. Oh, and this is with M1 mit buff with 3 AA's and 6 pieces of fabled armor, mind you. The extra 130 mit I get from my full set is going to do Jack, and [Removed for Content]. Happy? Good, now stop parroting yourself and shut the [Removed for Content] up. Ok, what's left? More gems. Did I say NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING? Nope. I say YOU know nothing. Can I have another EVE story, please? Please? I have not just randomly blasted people for giving advice - fact is, I have a bunch of brigands giving me advice, which is like having Satan preach at church on Sunday. The only brig who has been remotely decent in this whole thread has been Vanni, who didn't come off as a dick, stated his case and left. And the coup de grace:1) then why are you here? oh wait, I already caught you in that one, you admitted that you came to this post to flame me. idiot. 2) my objective, while it has changed - has been clearly restated about 127 googleplex times. If you don't know what my objective is here, then....[Removed for Content], that's sad. Brigs have been nerfed? So, so have conjurors, and if they still walked around one-shotting tanks, you wouldn't hear me whine about another nerf, either. Relevance - zero. Did I ASK to have conj's buffed to ludicrous heights? Ever? No. In fact, I have clearly stated many times that 1. that would be boring 2. gear should make a difference and the balance in this game is great in many situations 3. you're a tool 4. i want balance, not to replace one op class with another 5. the devs/testers don't have an easy jobAnything else? I'm sure you do, but it will have to be really interesting to warrant another rant from me, and I'm quite done pulverizing you. I've got a lot of work to do tomorrow, and I've taken enough time exposing your infantile arguments for the heaps of poop that they are. Have fun on Vox with that brigand/swash, doofus.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 01:00 AM

<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote> <blockquote>Syslik@Guk wrote: Honestly, just: I really couldn't care less what you have to say about it until you start showing some actual evidence of anything, or reasons why you think it should be different that make sense and can be executed without destroying the balance for the rest of the game. Think logically. Don't say "I shouldn't die in 3 seconds." What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? That's it. You didn't give a response, other than a too-long diatribe on why you think nobody knows a [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing other than you. You asked me to give suggestions? 1) I don't PvP in EQ2, so I'd consider my suggestions without merit, but they amount to RPS anyway. 2) I don't have 25 pages of [I cannot control my vocabulary] with no discernible objective in mind. Honestly, give it some thought. What can they do that will not severely unbalance the game by nerfing brigs (who've already been nerfed once) or buffing conjurors to ludicrous heights? </blockquote> My future contributions to this thread will consist of quoting this block of text over, and over, and over, (and over) again until Wreakinn contributes something of value to this thread for once and answers it. He'll keep throwing verbal darts at me for "not answering his questions" [that I answered 250-some-odd-posts ago anyway] , keep ignoring the fact that he has yet to contribute the one simple thing which we're asking of him (valid suggestions for balance), and keep up the whine charade. I predict at least 34 more posts from him in the next week where he refuses to answer a valid question (posed in a rational, flame-less manner) and instead calls the person in question one (or more) of the following: "troll" "[Removed for Content]" "kid" "flamer" "idiot" Bottom line: Wreakinn, until you can give a satisfactory answer to "Syslik's bolded questions" (we'll call it SBQ from now on for short, since we'll probably have to reference it a lot) above, your presence in this thread means nothing. You can redeem yourself for literally 2 weeks of wasted thread by answering this. Most of us have also asked this question of you, in some shape or form, and it's been blown off every time. The clock will start in T minus 5.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1.. Begin! We're waiting... </blockquote>Hypocrisy, I dub thee Firamasyslik. Any time you want to answer "Wreakinn's points" (we'll call it "silly brigand nonsense" from now on, since I'll probably have to reference it a lot, or just "l2prps&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, let me know. Go chew on my latest response, in which I give your comrade-in-futility yet another answer to his oft-answered question.

Groma

04-13-2007, 02:54 AM

Wow, i really didn't think they made people like you anymore. You talk down to people for flaming, and in the very next sentence start flaming yourself. Wreakinn, people bashed you when you made this thread because from the start it was nothing more than a whine, and the CA usage in question is 100% legit. Had you just said it was overpowered, i bet half the people in this thread would be singing a different tune, but you cried exploit and noone on a pvp server wants to hear anyone cry exploit unless you have some proof to back it up. Logs have been posted, people have given their opinions, and the bottom line is every person who spoke up against your opinion on the original subject matter has been flamed for it, hence the reason you have been getting mostly flames on this thread. My comment on you removing someone, was in reference to you threatening guild removal(then having someone removed) sometime earlier this week because they bashed you on the boards. If you didn't post 40 times a day, i would sift thru and find it for you, but i think i would end up a bit dumber if i went thru hundreds of your posts. So by all means, flame on, because i know better than to believe that you are actually going to leave the last word to someone else, 26 pages in this thread proves how dead set you are on getting the last word in.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 03:11 AM

Did you type this before or after the PM you just sent me? I'll say nothing more.

DementedGerbil

04-13-2007, 05:37 AM

i came here all ready to flame people for flaming me, but after 25 pages of crud....i just dont have the energy, and my fav healer was already here for me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />but i do have to say, i am surprised that this thread got so long w/o a closure, oh well, just more for me to read when i wake up ^_^

Syslik

04-13-2007, 08:59 AM

So, you want them to change the timer on doubleup to something higher against casters only in PvP only? That's a clever bit of coding, and by clever, I mean nigh-impossible. I'm a software dev, and I can't even think of a way that they could reasonably do it. They can't change the timer anytime they're near a cloth caster, since there's no guarantees that they won't be grouped or just randomly near you. They can't do it based on target without an extraordinary amount of code, since it'd be too easy to bypass that by merely targeting a mob or somethng else around. I mean, how do you expect them to do it, and why should they? Cloth casters are still going to get taken down in a matter of seconds. Why do they nerf certain classes? Doesn't fit with their vision. Remember how pet classes (supposedly) were getting rebalanced in order to fit the DPS tiers they were meant to? The only difference with decap and HT is that they likely were not coded with PvP in mind originally (like manaburn, lifeburn, etc), and it was just capping the PvP damage, not adjusting a timer. Lower damage on MA/Dev? Yeah, that's not a nerf. A cap on damage for huge abilities is one thing, an incremental drop in damage is quite another. High burst damage is one of the key features of scoutlike classes, and swashies/brigs have fairly long timers. If it turns into an endurance contest with a pet class... Please, complain about your mit some more, though. A M1 mit buff for a conj != M1 mit buff for a guard. Tweak resists a bit more? Do you think it might be related to the fact that conj debuffing sucks, and that it's one of the primary roles for rogues, bards, and certain priests? Honestly, brigs and swashies get huge debuffs. You do not. You can stop with the rest of it. As noted, I don't care what you think about my intelligence level, and it's clear that you're never going to give a coherent response to anything else. So, I'll ask again: What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? That's it. You didn't give a response, other than a too-long diatribe. What can they do that will not severely unbalance the game by nerfing brigs (who've already been nerfed once) or buffing conjurors to ludicrous heights? Reasonable answers?

Sinistria

04-13-2007, 09:28 AM

i wish i knew what this is all about. ... but to much to read. hey, brigands are so overpowered that it brings up a thread thiiiiiiiis long? ... i am going to make one <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Titan-X

04-13-2007, 11:37 AM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Hey Sharpteath, look what I found:<a href="mailto:----Dodad@Vox" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">----Dodad@Vox</a> wrote:followed by-------"my friend Eureka"Guess we know what guild you're in, huh? Gee, I wonder why you jumped into this thread to begin with? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Care to tell us who those 70 alts are now?Just go away. Your attempts to flame me are silly, and this isn't the QG vs. Reckoning thread. </blockquote>I guess you think you have it all figured out? Hmm but I wonder, do you know anything really. You call this discussion (loose use of the term) a conversation about brigs vs. int casters. Yet nothing in the last 340 post by you has been constructive short of a couple sentences here and there. When backed into a corner you have blasted your way out with negative remarks and flame's instead of a shred of evidence or a valid point. You have derailed your own topic countless times yet you seem to try and take the high road when you feel the "peanut" gallery nipping at your heals. BTW- Eureka didn't always play on PvP... Still think you have it all figured out? Some of us have been around longer then a couple months to make a friend or two.. </blockquote> Dodad/sharp/faeded/random_reckoning_member_33, you have contributed nothing, and I do mean nothing, to this debate. You jumped in to flame, made a few horrifically clunky posts as insults(much like your pms), and have done nothing since but step up to bash me some more when you thought I was bashing Eureka - which I didn't. I was actually quite gracious, because I thought you guys were pretty decent for the most part. Furthermore twinkle-toes: I don't kick anyone out of the guild, as I do not have the power. I just wanted to see if you'd admit to who your toon was, and you called my bluff. As for you getting kicked out? Who knows, and who cares. I know exactly who you are now, I know who invited you, and for some reason, they think quite highly of you. It's up to them and the generals to decide, not me - I still think they will find your constant comments about how you don't care about the guild hilarious. A pity, too - the other Reckoning people in the guild who are there to take a break(probably from Mr. Overbearing) are pretty nice. Grats on potentially ruining it for them, too. For a guild "you don't care about at all", you people have a lot of alts here for some reason, and maybe it's time we put a stop to that. My whole point with exposing you was to make you look stupid in front of all the boo-birds - now everyone knows that you are just another fp/exile/troll/brigand/scout/crusader who wanted to jump on the bashing bandwagon. Ahhh, Gromann. Can't keep it civil for long, can you kiddo? Yours was one of the venomous posts that got [I cannot control my vocabulary] stirred up in the first place, and for no reason, I might add - no wait, I know what it is. You are always in the center of flame wars on the Vox boards, figured maybe you'd start one here, too. Well grats, because it was peoples' posts like yours who set me on the defensive in the first place. I thought that you were being rational in your last post, so I figured I'd turn the other cheek and ignore your other bs just to be adult about it. But, your true troll nature comes out yet again, eh sparky? The guild [I cannot control my vocabulary] is over, kids. This is neither the time nor the place, and quite frankly, both of you bore me. The last word is yours - there will be no words to either of you, unless either of you [I cannot control my vocabulary] trolls actually have something RELEVANT to add. Try me. Faabio treatment! Poof! You have become better at Ignoring Stupid Teens(41)! </blockquote>My post may be "clunky" but I am not the assuming a** that thinks he has it all figured out. I am sorry my grammar offends you. Please keeping in mind that writing this is not my priority and I am really not having to put much thought into this little exchange. Why add something constructive at this point? All my past attempts at asking you a constructive question have been met with a moronic response off topic. So taking a note from your playbook I will continue to post based on your current nonsense. You continue to skate the point by restating some crap you tried to pass off as your point a couple of post before. You make snide comments about people. You try to flame. I use "try" because your attempts are so serious, but after it's all said and done just humorous. You have represented yourself as a pompous a**. Why don't you play more then a couple months and then come back to us with a little more in game practical application knowledge? -Something constructive for you-Also anyone reading this. Wreakinn (Apply named I might add) is not a good representation of Vox or QG. QG is a solid guild in which if you want to play with some decent people who generally are just here to have fun and play the game, its your Q guild. Vox is a great server for some good PvP fun. Don't let the statements of one idiot turn you away from a good guild and a great sever.BTW-will someone in reckoning put him out of his misery? He has his heart set on me being some spy member.

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 11:45 AM

for the record, dodad has no FP toons to my knowledge. i've fought against him/her on a number of occassins as have my guildies. Nothing but respect <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 11:47 AM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>for the record, dodad has no FP toons to my knowledge. i've fought against him/her on a number of occassins as have my guildies. Nothing but respect <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> sorry, mistaken identity.. i don't think dodad is who i think he is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Queens guard.. trying to think if they have anyone good that i've fought..

Groma

04-13-2007, 11:55 AM

Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote> BTW-will someone in reckoning put him out of his misery? He has his heart set on me being some spy member. </blockquote>Never met this dude before, so no he isn't some spy member. He was friends with Eureka in their old Kithicor guild and happens to play on Vox now in Queens Guard.

Firam

04-13-2007, 12:09 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>But wait, I'll even give some suggestions - anything to shut you the hell up and go slinking off. ALL OF THESE ARE FOR PVP ONLY, CASTERS VS. BRIGS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM, I DON'T CARE. THIS IS JUST BECAUSE I'M A CRUEL MEANIE AND WANT TO MAKE SYSLIK GO AWAY. Would it be that the devs paid me for this, but they do not hire abrasive [I cannot control my vocabulary](when provoked by the flame-war crowd, at least).</blockquote> Embedded in your two week long novella of spite, we finally get a meaningful response out of you. I thank you for this. (honestly, no sarcasm there, thanks for finally making an effort at providing a real answer. i do appreciate it.) Now, I'd like to address your suggestions. <blockquote>Raise recast time of double-up - against casters, not PvE, not healers or tanks or whatever the hell brigs might struggle with. Double-up is what, a minute recast? What's MA, 45 seconds? Less? Not going to help too much, but it would keep them from taking out entire groups every minute. Plane shift is 12 minutes, stoneskin is five(a good number, actually). Why do they get such an uber combo every minute?</blockquote> Let's just set aside the fact that this is impossible to code. My undergrad degree was in computer science, and I'll tell you that the amount of effort and programming required to make this mechanic possible [against specific targets and only in PvP] is multiple orders of magnitude more than the developers possess or desire to expend when there are more pressing things they could be coding. But the real issue here is that, even implemented as you suggested, against PvP casters, it wouldn't change anything. 1) "taking out entire groups every minute". Wha... what? Seriously, this isn't even close to realistic. 2) It takes more than just a few CA to win a fight. It takes timing, it takes the element of surprise, it takes survivability. Do you think brigands are running around hopping from solo clothie target to solo clothie target, once per minute, and just railing everyone in sight without any kind of interference? No offense, but have you PvP'd much as a scout? 3) Double Up is not the crux of Brigand PvP Strategy. It's not necessary to win. A proper understanding of the class that you're going up against will score you far more points than a CA that recasts two other CA's once a minute. There are about two full hotbars worth of CA's that I can use to mess any caster up. Some are more effective than others. They all work well. Why? Because mages have essentially no physical mitigation, and that makes it easy for any scout. I know you don't want to hear this, but that's kind of the way the [MMORPG] world works. 4) Taking all this into account, exactly how much do you suggest they increase the cooldown by? 50%? Double it? Quadruple it? What's that really going to do? For all the complaining you've done about brigand's "overpoweredness", you don't seem to truly understand the class very well. That's not an insult, so please don't take it as one. You just don't play one and don't understand much about the finer points. You get the business end only. Quick and dirty. Some numbers scrolling by on your screen. You don't understand the essence of the class, outside of one simple CA string that we've discussed. There's no finesse there. I wouldn't claim to be able to speak to the conjuror class very well either. <blockquote>Lower damage of MA/Dev - same, would help int casters from being obliterated as quickly. They cap big hits, but they seriously need to look at some of the "little big hits" as well. </blockquote> Brigands dont need MA/DU to kill mages... so why stop there? Why not lower the damage of every brigand CA in PvP? While we're at it, we're going to need to nerf scout PvP damage across the board as well. There's a heck of a lot of "little big hits" from any scout class. Lets nerf scouts to the point where casters can survive 20-60% longer against them. That sounds good. That's about in line with what you're requiring to make conjurors 50/50 against brigands in solo PvP. Now let's think back to what Slysik repeated over and over: How is this going to affect everything else? THAT is the crux of the matter here. You'd cripple scouts against every other archetype just for the sake of aiding a couple mage classes. Tanks already can take scout DPS quite well. Healers would laugh them off. Mages would be snickering at their new sudden dominance in the R-P-S circle of life. Without a predator in the food chain, the prey is free to populate and dominate. It's nature, baby, it's science. <blockquote>Tweak resists a bit more, landing a snare on a brig is like trying to get a date with Jessica Alba. Landing a stun? Orgy at the Playboy mansion. But you know what? Their stun ALWAYS hits, and so does their root. So if I go anti-stun, great, that can help, but I'm screwed if he roots me or snares me. </blockquote> 1) Your snares and stuns are spell based, and roll vs a magical resistance for their resist check. Scouts and melee are CA based, and roll vs physical mitigation for resist checks. They are a secondary effect that rides on a damage art, and generally very short in duration. Basic EQ2 mechanics here. No exploits. No nonsense. 2) Also, I will disagree that "landing a snare/stun/root" is next to impossible. Mages do it to me all the time. Know what I do when they do that? Guess what I do. Come on, guess. I'm not going to tell you. Just guess. 2) Ok, ok, I'll tell you. I click a cure potion. Or I click a freedom potion. There. *sigh* The secret's out... my reign of terror is probably over. I just told all the mages out there how to get rid of a debuff; the poor, beleaguered clothies of the world will no longer have to suffer under the yoke of oppressive crowd control effects. I'm probably going to get a lot of hate mail from scouts for this. =( <blockquote>Dev and MA - mitigation of wet Kleenex. As if 1800 mit was not lame enough, now I get get the mitigation of water vapor. Oh, and this is with M1 mit buff with 3 AA's and 6 pieces of fabled armor, mind you. The extra 130 mit I get from my full set is going to do Jack, and [I cannot control my vocabulary]. </blockquote> Well, MA doesn't affect mitigation, so I'm not sure how that applies. If you mean that MA does more damage after devitalize is on you, well, hrm, yes. Yes, it seems that it does. Thinking back, it seems that my other arts do more damage too. That's odd. Debuffs do indeed seem work that way. This... this... is just out of line. I'll put in a /bug report on this asap. Recommend you do the same. Together, we'll get the developers to address this gross oversight and hopefully by next live update it'll be a non-issue. <blockquote>Oh, and this is with M1 mit buff with 3 AA's and 6 pieces of fabled armor, mind you. The extra 130 mit I get from my full set is going to do Jack, and [I cannot control my vocabulary]. </blockquote> A mage that's concerned that his physical mitigation is tier 4 among the 4 archetypes? I'm speechless. (no sarcasm there-- I quite simply have no come back to that) <blockquote>Happy? Good, now stop parroting yourself and shut the [I cannot control my vocabulary] up. </blockquote> That's more like <strike>it</strike> [you]. (Also, a general apology that this reply started out clean and got more sarcastic as it went. I was kind of excited to see that you were actually starting to Discuss The Issue using applied logic and reason, but some (most.. well.. all) of the things you proposed were just so far out of line with the "How is this going to affect everything else?" point that we've been trying to get across to you this entire time that I let myself go. It's shameful, really, I'm better than that. I'm going off to the garage to cleanse myself with a barbed cat o' nine tails right hitting Submit.)

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 12:17 PM

Well said ^^, and a good read, thx.

Ameniel

04-13-2007, 12:35 PM

Yage@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>As with this clothie int caster on Venekor... #1 Non-bot deaths worldwide, and i can smack a brig down.</blockquote> You da man! <img src="http://static.flickr.com/32/97595567_d0b67df8e1_m.jpg" border="0">

Titan-X

04-13-2007, 12:36 PM

Awesome read, but will that work? It makes sense so I will have to assume it won't..

dnice74

04-13-2007, 01:02 PM

Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: </blockquote></blockquote>Wreakinn hurt my feelings. </blockquote>Let's see, is there anything about brigands in here? Hmmm...no. Scouts? Hmmmm...no. Poof!

dnice74

04-13-2007, 01:08 PM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote> BTW-will someone in reckoning put him out of his misery? He has his heart set on me being some spy member. </blockquote>Never met this dude before, so no he isn't some spy member. He was friends with Eureka in their old Kithicor guild and happens to play on Vox now in Queens Guard. </blockquote> This gets better and better. So I was wrong about him having Reckoning alts, wrong about him having FP alts. No problem. But skippy still jumped into this thread just to flame. Great conduct, so glad to have him aboard! Nevermind sending me a tell or PM, just flame away. But I have the bad attitude? Stop, I might [Removed for Content] myself. And I'm not done with you yet, either, schmuck. Just not in this thread, as I promised.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 01:16 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: punish me verballyOk, sure.---------------------------------------------------------- So, you want them to change the timer on doubleup to something higher against casters only in PvP only? That's a clever bit of coding, and by clever, I mean nigh-impossible. I'm a software dev, and I can't even think of a way that they could reasonably do it. They can't change the timer anytime they're near a cloth caster, since there's no guarantees that they won't be grouped or just randomly near you. They can't do it based on target without an extraordinary amount of code, since it'd be too easy to bypass that by merely targeting a mob or somethng else around. I mean, how do you expect them to do it, and why should they? Cloth casters are still going to get taken down in a matter of seconds. ================================================== ====================================== Honestly, I didn't give it much thought - I could probably come up with 20 suggestions. First of all, the thought of taking the time to write that out only to suffer though your poor analysis of why each wouldn't work gives me gas. Secondly, what you fail to see in your rush to ignore all of my points is that THIS ISN'T MY JOB. I'm not a dev, I'm not paid for it. I pay them. Was the Pepsi analogy too complex for you? Here, here's an even simpler one - if your food is cold at a restaurant, do you go back in the kitchen with them and tell them how to warm it up? Yes, that is oversimplification, but you are starting to strike me as a simple person. No harm there, we can't all be rocket scientists, I suppose. But how many times do you have to hear the same thing? Stop arguing just to argue, ffs. [Removed for Content], man. You're a software dev. Do you tell your customers to give you coding ideas when they tell you your software is buggy? Are you going out of your way to look foolish here? Finally - I don't feel like it at the moment. Maybe at another time, in another thread. I spend WAY too much time on these boards as it is. Now if they asked me for it, I'd defnitely give it some more thought out of respect. But in case you haven't figured it out - I have none for you, and I'm not going to sit here and give you 30 suggestions because you don't feel I'm giving you an adequate answer. Oh, and here, let me save you the trouble. "YOU'RE DODGING THE ISSUE, ANSWER THE QUESTION, PERSONAL ATTACKS, LOUD NOISES! BLAH BLAH BLAH". There, now I've just saved you 20 seconds. Now, as for the suggestion I made here - honestly, I am not surprised to hear it might be difficult. But your answer - thanks for being predictable - is yet another cop-out. Am I a [Removed for Content] programmer? Nope, started off with it in college and changed my mind long ago. So because I don't know how they should do it, they should do nothing??? Why should they? You're kidding me, right? Do you really think I'm the only caster complaining about scouts? Do you have something against Gromann? He says the EXACT SAME THING I DO, but I don't hear any of you clowns asking him these questions. Oh wait, you had one post before you came here, so I'm SURE you are well-versed in what people talk about on these boards. Casters have been [Removed for Content] about this for MONTHS, and guess what they did? They revamped the entire combat system(largely to good effect) and tweaked resists(also helped some). They do listen, and they didn't cop out, unlike what you are suggesting. However, I'm saying that more needs to be done. A matter of seconds, huh? Fine. Find a way to keep me up for 6 seconds as opposed to 2. There's a start. And for the last time, stop with the RPS BS. Pay close attention to this:NOT ONCE HAVE YOU EXPLAINED WHY RPS IS VALID. STILL WAITING FOR YOU AND FIRAMAS TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS, TOO. Get it, hypocrite? Seriously, you two are absolutely amazing. Same person, two accounts, maybe? Worked for Dodadteth. ================================================== ================================== Why do they nerf certain classes? Doesn't fit with their vision. Remember how pet classes (supposedly) were getting rebalanced in order to fit the DPS tiers they were meant to? The only difference with decap and HT is that they likely were not coded with PvP in mind originally (like manaburn, lifeburn, etc), and it was just capping the PvP damage, not adjusting a timer. ================================================== ================================== Oh brother. Soooooooooooo their vision was fine in the first place, then they decided that they didn't agree with themselves anymore? roflmaowtfbbqchokecoughsputter. Dude - you are HILARIOUS. Save some face here and admit that you are typing stupid responses just to get a rise out of me. We all know how easy it is. There, I've given you an out. DPS tiers blah blah blah. Well wait; why cap anything if "casters are going to die in seconds anyway"? See you're not the only one who can repeat questions; difference is, I've answered yours repeatedly, and asked you a LOT of questions that you dodge constantly. Are you ever going to answer mine? If RPS rules, why bother to balance at all? But anyway, back to their "vision" - hahahah. No really, that was funny though. Mad points on the comedy there. I know that this game wasn't coded for PvP, clown. They nerfed those things in PVP because - gasp! - it was OP for PvP, fuckwit, not because it suddenly interfered with their "vision". So tell me how scouts eating casters for snacks are part of their "vision", oh seer of seers. ================================================== ================================== Lower damage on MA/Dev? Yeah, that's not a nerf. A cap on damage for huge abilities is one thing, an incremental drop in damage is quite another. High burst damage is one of the key features of scoutlike classes, and swashies/brigs have fairly long timers. If it turns into an endurance contest with a pet class... Please, complain about your mit some more, though. A M1 mit buff for a conj != M1 mit buff for a guard. ================================================== ================================== So it's a nerf, whatever. This isn't semantics 101. Fairly long timers? Tell me what the recast timers are for en garde/MA/insp/double up so I can have another reason to laugh at you. And no, I do not want the recast timers on mine lowered, but theirs might need to be raised. Endurance??? 2 seconds is endurance??? [Removed for Content], must be some fat chain-smoking scouts in Norrath. A class that has greater - that's right, greater - burst DPS than a cloth class and chain mit needs a lot of help. You're right, I'm sorry. /eyeroll And where did I say anything about their mit buffs??? The clue boat just sailed off without you, take a plane instead. Just....wow. ================================================== ================================== Tweak resists a bit more? Do you think it might be related to the fact that conj debuffing sucks, and that it's one of the primary roles for rogues, bards, and certain priests? Honestly, brigs and swashies get huge debuffs. You do not. ================================================== ================================== What in the [Removed for Content] are you talking about? Let me draw this out in crayon: I didn't mean how I debuff them, I meant how my spells land. I hope you're an awesome coder, because you fail at the english bigtime. By the way: I have one debuff from a proc on my belt and my pet procs another that doesn't do [Removed for Content] to them, really. Oh noz, -1100? Great, now they only have 4-5000 resists to elemental/magic, which are people's highest resists anyway!!! ================================================== ================================== You can stop with the rest of it. As noted, I don't care what you think about my intelligence level, and it's clear that you're never going to give a coherent response to anything else. ================================================== ================================== No. Not as high as you think. And lollerskates. ================================================== ================================== So, I'll ask again: What are they going to change in order to correct that "problem?" What else will that affect? That's it. You didn't give a response, other than a too-long diatribe. ================================================== ================================== Everytime I think you can get more ludicrous, you only surpass each previous post. So we just got done discussing points I've made that answered your question(not like I haven't done that already) but now I didn't give a response???? Fan-tastic! I don't even know how to flame you anymore. You are just wildly delusional. ================================================== ================================== What can they do that will not severely unbalance the game by nerfing brigs (who've already been nerfed once) or buffing conjurors to ludicrous heights? Reasonable answers? ================================================== ================================== See what I said above. Keep repeating yourself all day, I don't mind.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 01:16 PM

<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>But wait, I'll even give some suggestions - anything to shut you the hell up and go slinking off. ALL OF THESE ARE FOR PVP ONLY, CASTERS VS. BRIGS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM, I DON'T CARE. THIS IS JUST BECAUSE I'M A CRUEL MEANIE AND WANT TO MAKE SYSLIK GO AWAY. Would it be that the devs paid me for this, but they do not hire abrasive [I cannot control my vocabulary](when provoked by the flame-war crowd, at least).</blockquote> Embedded in your two week long novella of spite, we finally get a meaningful response out of you. I thank you for this. (honestly, no sarcasm there, thanks for finally making an effort at providing a real answer. i do appreciate it.) Now, I'd like to address your suggestions. <blockquote>Raise recast time of double-up - against casters, not PvE, not healers or tanks or whatever the hell brigs might struggle with. Double-up is what, a minute recast? What's MA, 45 seconds? Less? Not going to help too much, but it would keep them from taking out entire groups every minute. Plane shift is 12 minutes, stoneskin is five(a good number, actually). Why do they get such an uber combo every minute?</blockquote>Let's just set aside the fact that this is impossible to code. My undergrad degree was in computer science, and I'll tell you that the amount of effort and programming required to make this mechanic possible [against specific targets and only in PvP] is multiple orders of magnitude more than the developers possess or desire to expend when there are more pressing things they could be coding. But the real issue here is that, even implemented as you suggested, against PvP casters, it wouldn't change anything. 1) "taking out entire groups every minute". Wha... what? Seriously, this isn't even close to realistic. 2) It takes more than just a few CA to win a fight. It takes timing, it takes the element of surprise, it takes survivability. Do you think brigands are running around hopping from solo clothie target to solo clothie target, once per minute, and just railing everyone in sight without any kind of interference? No offense, but have you PvP'd much as a scout? 3) Double Up is not the crux of Brigand PvP Strategy. It's not necessary to win. A proper understanding of the class that you're going up against will score you far more points than a CA that recasts two other CA's once a minute. There are about two full hotbars worth of CA's that I can use to mess any caster up. Some are more effective than others. They all work well. Why? Because mages have essentially no physical mitigation, and that makes it easy for any scout. I know you don't want to hear this, but that's kind of the way the [MMORPG] world works. 4) Taking all this into account, exactly how much do you suggest they increase the cooldown by? 50%? Double it? Quadruple it? What's that really going to do? For all the complaining you've done about brigand's "overpoweredness", you don't seem to truly understand the class very well. That's not an insult, so please don't take it as one. You just don't play one and don't understand much about the finer points. You get the business end only. Quick and dirty. Some numbers scrolling by on your screen. You don't understand the essence of the class, outside of one simple CA string that we've discussed. There's no finesse there. I wouldn't claim to be able to speak to the conjuror class very well either. <blockquote>Lower damage of MA/Dev - same, would help int casters from being obliterated as quickly. They cap big hits, but they seriously need to look at some of the "little big hits" as well. </blockquote>Brigands dont need MA/DU to kill mages... so why stop there? Why not lower the damage of every brigand CA in PvP? While we're at it, we're going to need to nerf scout PvP damage across the board as well. There's a heck of a lot of "little big hits" from any scout class. Lets nerf scouts to the point where casters can survive 20-60% longer against them. That sounds good. That's about in line with what you're requiring to make conjurors 50/50 against brigands in solo PvP. Now let's think back to what Slysik repeated over and over: How is this going to affect everything else? THAT is the crux of the matter here. You'd cripple scouts against every other archetype just for the sake of aiding a couple mage classes. Tanks already can take scout DPS quite well. Healers would laugh them off. Mages would be snickering at their new sudden dominance in the R-P-S circle of life. Without a predator in the food chain, the prey is free to populate and dominate. It's nature, baby, it's science. <blockquote>Tweak resists a bit more, landing a snare on a brig is like trying to get a date with Jessica Alba. Landing a stun? Orgy at the Playboy mansion. But you know what? Their stun ALWAYS hits, and so does their root. So if I go anti-stun, great, that can help, but I'm screwed if he roots me or snares me. </blockquote> 1) Your snares and stuns are spell based, and roll vs a magical resistance for their resist check. Scouts and melee are CA based, and roll vs physical mitigation for resist checks. They are a secondary effect that rides on a damage art, and generally very short in duration. Basic EQ2 mechanics here. No exploits. No nonsense. 2) Also, I will disagree that "landing a snare/stun/root" is next to impossible. Mages do it to me all the time. Know what I do when they do that? Guess what I do. Come on, guess. I'm not going to tell you. Just guess. 2) Ok, ok, I'll tell you. I click a cure potion. Or I click a freedom potion. There. *sigh* The secret's out... my reign of terror is probably over. I just told all the mages out there how to get rid of a debuff; the poor, beleaguered clothies of the world will no longer have to suffer under the yoke of oppressive crowd control effects. I'm probably going to get a lot of hate mail from scouts for this. =( <blockquote>Dev and MA - mitigation of wet Kleenex. As if 1800 mit was not lame enough, now I get get the mitigation of water vapor. Oh, and this is with M1 mit buff with 3 AA's and 6 pieces of fabled armor, mind you. The extra 130 mit I get from my full set is going to do Jack, and [I cannot control my vocabulary]. </blockquote>Well, MA doesn't affect mitigation, so I'm not sure how that applies. If you mean that MA does more damage after devitalize is on you, well, hrm, yes. Yes, it seems that it does. Thinking back, it seems that my other arts do more damage too. That's odd. Debuffs do indeed seem work that way. This... this... is just out of line. I'll put in a /bug report on this asap. Recommend you do the same. Together, we'll get the developers to address this gross oversight and hopefully by next live update it'll be a non-issue. <blockquote>Oh, and this is with M1 mit buff with 3 AA's and 6 pieces of fabled armor, mind you. The extra 130 mit I get from my full set is going to do Jack, and [I cannot control my vocabulary]. </blockquote>A mage that's concerned that his physical mitigation is tier 4 among the 4 archetypes? I'm speechless. (no sarcasm there-- I quite simply have no come back to that) <blockquote>Happy? Good, now stop parroting yourself and shut the [I cannot control my vocabulary] up. </blockquote> That's more like <strike>it</strike> [you]. (Also, a general apology that this reply started out clean and got more sarcastic as it went. I was kind of excited to see that you were actually starting to Discuss The Issue using applied logic and reason, but some (most.. well.. all) of the things you proposed were just so far out of line with the "How is this going to affect everything else?" point that we've been trying to get across to you this entire time that I let myself go. It's shameful, really, I'm better than that. I'm going off to the garage to cleanse myself with a barbed cat o' nine tails right hitting Submit.) </blockquote>This looks meaty. Could it be you have actually answered my questions, as I have asked you to do for 15 pages? Tune in! I'll be back.

Titan-X

04-13-2007, 01:32 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote> BTW-will someone in reckoning put him out of his misery? He has his heart set on me being some spy member. </blockquote>Never met this dude before, so no he isn't some spy member. He was friends with Eureka in their old Kithicor guild and happens to play on Vox now in Queens Guard. </blockquote> This gets better and better. So I was wrong about him having Reckoning alts, wrong about him having FP alts. No problem. But skippy still jumped into this thread just to flame. Great conduct, so glad to have him aboard! Nevermind sending me a tell or PM, just flame away. But I have the bad attitude? Stop, I might [Removed for Content] myself. And I'm not done with you yet, either, schmuck. Just not in this thread, as I promised. </blockquote>When you come to the forums looking to pick a fight, how do you ever expect to get a good answer to a question you feel so passionately about? You don't.. You want something done to make it easier for you to play your class against an apposing class. The dynamic of the game doesn't support that theory. It has been explained that the result of what you ask cannot be done so specifically. If it was attempted the result would have to be so minute that it would be nominal at best as to not corrupt the current game structure. You make these lame analogies about your food, and pepsi, but you leave out the best point of all. When you don't like the service you get someplace or by some product you don't buy them anymore. Please do us all a favor and don't pay for the game anymore..You solve all our problems in one fail swoop..Your threats are welcomed with open arms <img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Ameniel

04-13-2007, 01:33 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Stop, I might [Removed for Content] myself. </blockquote> <img src="http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/52/52/6/98/73/471569873cXfgYh_th.jpg" border="0">

Titan-X

04-13-2007, 01:33 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote> BTW-will someone in reckoning put him out of his misery? He has his heart set on me being some spy member. </blockquote>Never met this dude before, so no he isn't some spy member. He was friends with Eureka in their old Kithicor guild and happens to play on Vox now in Queens Guard. </blockquote> This gets better and better. So I was wrong about him having Reckoning alts, wrong about him having FP alts. No problem. But skippy still jumped into this thread just to flame. Great conduct, so glad to have him aboard! Nevermind sending me a tell or PM, just flame away. But I have the bad attitude? Stop, I might [Removed for Content] myself. And I'm not done with you yet, either, schmuck. Just not in this thread, as I promised. </blockquote>When you come to the forums looking to pick a fight, how do you ever expect to get a good answer to a question you feel so passionately about? You don't is my answer. You want something done to make it easier for you to play your class against an apposing class. The dynamic of the game doesn't support that theory. It has been explained that the result of what you ask cannot be done so specifically. If it was attempted the result would have to be so minute that it would be nominal at best as to not corrupt the current game structure. You make these lame analogies about your food, and pepsi, but you leave out the best point of all. When you don't like the service you get someplace or by some product you don't buy them anymore. Please do us all a favor and don't pay for the game anymore..You solve all our problems in one fail swoop..Your threats are welcomed with open arms...<img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Syslik

04-13-2007, 02:25 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>-snip-</blockquote>If you've asked me questions, they've been lost in the linguistic diarrhea incessantly spewing from you. I don't read the majority of your posts, merely skim to see if any of them say something worthwhile. They don't. It's been said before, but let's say it again: they use the same codebase for everything. Without creating a second repository, patcher, and client for PvP servers (like Test), they cannot and will not change the game mechanics purely for you. Your restaurant analogy is fundamentally flawed. Think of EQ2 as your favorite establishment. You frequent it often enough to notice minute problems, and you're essentially endeavoring to get the cook's attention. You want the flavour changed slightly, so yes, you should be giving reasonable suggestions instead of throwing a tantrum. Do I tell my customers to give me coding suggestions? No. If one user, or even .5% of the userbase wanted me to spend god knows how many hours catering to their wishes at the expense of a great many others, I'd tell them to [Removed for Content] off. The customer is not always right, contrary to assumptions. I used the "vision" vernacular because that's what SOE developers have always used when they make balance changes. Regardless, the balance is not focused around burst DPS. Burst DPS for meleers has always been higher with the exception of a few abilities. Even wiz/warlock nukes have long cast times.. Perhaps you missed the point about debuffs. Your spells don't land because conjurors are [Removed for Content] debuffers. Defilers, let's say, can drop your poison/disease by ~2k, not including the hefty WIS debuffs. Bards and rogues debuff better, of course. Much as protest otherwise, you still have not come up with reasonable suggestions that will not adversely affect the rest of the game, much less methods to implement them. Try that this time.

Ibunubi

04-13-2007, 02:31 PM

Someone give Wreakinn his crayons back. His posts are harder than ever to read.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 02:36 PM

Dodad@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dodad@Vox wrote: </blockquote></blockquote>When you come to the forums looking to pick a fight, how do you ever expect to get a good answer to a question you feel so passionately about? You don't is my answer. You want something done to make it easier for you to play your class against an apposing class. The dynamic of the game doesn't support that theory. It has been explained that the result of what you ask cannot be done so specifically. If it was attempted the result would have to be so minute that it would be nominal at best as to not corrupt the current game structure. You make these lame analogies about your food, and pepsi, but you leave out the best point of all. When you don't like the service you get someplace or by some product you don't buy them anymore. Please do us all a favor and don't pay for the game anymore..You solve all our problems in one fail swoop..Your threats are welcomed with open arms...<img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> This is pretty loosely related to the topic, and that's being generous. Saying I came here looking for a fight is ludicrous, and I continue to be amazed at people's short memories. Re-read the thread again. You, Syslik, Gromann, Firamas, Faabio, and probably several others came here to do NOTHING but flame without ANY provocation from me. YOU all started it, and to say otherwise is just pathetic. Should I have just ignored you all from the start? Perhaps. But I continue to find this blind eye to the truth funny, so keep on keeping on with it. No, I do not want it easier. I want it balanced. I only said it a page or two ago - I don't even care if you all keep your precious RPS, but a brigand wearing full-fabled is unstoppable, and there are no answers - but I'm looking forward to reading Fir's new post when I get time, it looked like he actually stopped playing Neo and dodging everything for a minute. How many times do I have to repeat it? This isn't about RPS, this is about BALANCE, and saying "well it would screw up the the rest of the game" ISN'T MY PROBLEM. Sony still makes a killing off of this game, thanks. Here is why I answered your post - first of all, the analogies were on point. If you don't understand what an analogy is or how it works, that doesn't make it wrong. Secondly, I like far too much about this game. Third - I don't like the service, so I leave? So Sony should send the message "tough rocks" to everyone? No, they don't. Let me ask you directly, maybe you can succeed where syslik so miserably failed - why do they nerf anything then? Should people have "just left" when brigs/conjurors/etc needed to be nerfed before? Why are they putting in a hard cap? Is ANYONE going to answer those questions??? Anyway - thankfully, Sony doesn't share your theory. And then back to the lame taunts. It's "fell swoop", bonehead.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 02:41 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>-snip-</blockquote>Much as protest otherwise, you still have not come up with reasonable suggestions that will not adversely affect the rest of the game, much less methods to implement them. Try that this time. </blockquote> Let me ask you directly, maybe you can succeed where syslik so miserably failed - why do they nerf anything then? Should people have "just left" when brigs/conjurors/etc needed to be nerfed before? Why are they putting in a hard cap? Is ANYONE going to answer those questions??? Anyway - thankfully, Sony doesn't share your theory. When you want to answer this question I posed to Dodad, we can continue the debate.

shagr1414

04-13-2007, 02:43 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Plain and simple - Vox brigands have been abusing the macros lately and/or hacking outright. This is not a grey issue, I do not want to hear debate, I do not want a flame thread, and I am not whining. But I wanted to bring this to their attention and I know they read the boards. My guild has probably sent in 20 petitions a week about this issue. Basically, brigands are hotkeying all of their CA's into one button and dumping them on people in under a second. There is no class, no amount of gear, nothing that can stand up to that. Please tell me that you are at least aware of this and I will go away. But petitions aren't working, and sadly enough, the stupid little [I cannot control my vocabulary] who play this game will do everything they can to cheat. Anyway, lame-[I cannot control my vocabulary] teens with no life are not the point of this thread. </blockquote>its not jsut the brig's....rangers do same. I'm a necro, all i see is 12 lines of dmg in my combat log and im dead.....in .9 seconds. This is totally unnacceptable. Not only do necro's have to wear cloth and can't get mit high enough to survive through attacks liek this, but we have ZERO defense. Don't BS us about having root/fear.....a ranger's rain of arrows and sniper shots are NOT as resistable as fear-root....they dont ahve to wait thru 5-10second cast timers....and they get evac and combat runspeeds. Code the god [Removed for Content] game fairly or remove pvp, this is way mor unbalanced than that clusterf*ck Blizzard released. If sony wants to enter the pvp world correctly you MUST balance the classes. No flames no BS in this forum just fix it.

Yage

04-13-2007, 02:46 PM

I posted this on another thread, but i think more casters amy see it here... OK ways to make you more survivable that don't involve any more nerfs, just understanding of what is at your disposal. 3 pieces of PVP gear gives you +350 to crushing, slashing, and piercing. Combine this with other older pvp gear,and other mit gear and you can get each physical resist up between 500-1000 if you know what kind of damage you are going to take, and you can macro this gear now. Before i Exiled i could hit 50% mit with the right gear combo.Magi Shield quest gives a shield with a 300 point damage ward that procs all the time in pvp. And it heals you for any remaing damage left in the ward when it expires. Solo able quest that can be done in 2 hours.Enspelled Vultak Eye gives a 400 point ward that lasts 10 minutes and grants plus 5-10 disruption and procs off spells you cast, so you can keep it up by killing random low con mobs. And it procs alot in pvp as well. Must be made in nest.Signet Of Light From Darkness... Heals for 500-1000 and hits them for up to 1000 damage and can proc many many times in a fight. Drops in OOB.Illusionist PVP gloves gave a 300 point ward as well, not sure if all caster pvp gloves have this proc, but i think they do. In one epic battle once, these 4 items contributed 10% of my heals over the fight. If all these items proc, no scout is going to beat me, and this happens alot! Just the +350 resists made me go from getting one shotted by decap, to it barely getting me in the red, and many an assain died after i was decaped.

shagr1414

04-13-2007, 02:51 PM

<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've actually resigned myself to the fact that they are OP, because Sony obviously isn't going to do anything about it. I'm talking about brigs doing 9k plus in under a second to plate tanks, not just my paper-tissue-armor-[Removed for Content]. </blockquote> I edited out most of your sob story personal vendetta whining. Which leaves us with the point you were trying to make... ...which in itself is so heavily biased and incorrect that you really discount any kind of credibility you may have started with. Look at the changes made to brigand CA's over the last 9 months or so, "Sony obviously isn't going to do anything about it"? Sure, yeah, whatever. And there is no way in hell that a brig dropped 9k in less than a second (or "instantly" as you previously put it) to a plate tank that was... well.. actually wearing plate armor. In fact, that wouldn't happen even in the ~3 seconds it takes to go through the whole double up combos with sailwind. Dispatch is no longer the mitigation crippler it used to be in PvP, it was heavily nerfed in that regard. It'll now cut away about a quarter of the mitigation of a brawny plate tank. Maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less, depends on the buffs and gear level. Even with a lucky crit streak, my CA's dont do the kind of damage you're talking about to plate tanks, most of it is still mitigated away. Sure, I can tear through a mage in seconds if I get next to it... there's a ton of classes that can do that, that's what having essentially 0 mitigation does for you as a class... surprise! (I hope there aren't any mages out there who have any illusions about their ability to take physical hits... please tell me no one is that confused?) However, I've just given you the benefit of the doubt on pretty much every variable here. A brig with sailwind. Probably fully mastered. Lucky crit streak (we only get 15% innate crits with AA's maxed). That's 3 CA's + 3 doubled up CA's, and they had to be behind you for the dispatch+devitalize, possibly without stun/root first. Lets be realistic, since you're making sweeping generalizations: Ask a brigand to click the PVP tab on their CA's and read off the average damage (min+max/2) for dispatch+devitalize+assault, then multiply that by 2 for the double up, then add 5% for average crit damage increase, then take away about 35-40% of that final number due to post-debuff plate mitigation. Add in 300 for a poison proc somewhere in there. Now tell me what number you come up with? Oh, it's not anywhere near 9k? Ahh.... Now realize that the majority of brigands (as in >50%, to define that specifically for you) don't have the AGI line and thus no sailwind and thus can only double up 2 CA's. I really don't know what your major malfunction is. I don't play on Vox so I've never fought you personally, but it sounds like there's a lot of negative sentiment here towards you. You mention that you're a clothie. Did you perhaps go semi afk, perhaps sitting there near the monitor eating a sandwich, maybe putting on a sweatshirt or something, and a brigand caught you on track, came up, and dropped you in a few seconds before you could scramble back to the keyboard? Is that why this cry-fest started? </blockquote>When mages have a viable defense in pvp you can speak otherwise go push your 2 macros and call yourself skilled. Noobs like you cannot possibly play a cloth class in pvp very well so you resort to the easy mode. Then you come here and try and act educated. Nice try, pre-school lets out in bout 2 hours, then maybe you can go home and press your hotkeys a few times and bask in your uberness of an exploitable system that makes scout classes overpowered.

Groma

04-13-2007, 02:54 PM

Funny, i respecced my AAs to be a little better off in pvp the other night, and in 7 scouts fights one on one i have lost one of them to an assassin who's decap made me faint. The brig this post was about died when i was in orange, and i let him initiate combat. Its not too terribly hard to kill nearly any class with the right gear/spec, you just have to know exactly what works for each class/player.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 03:03 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>-snip-</blockquote>If you've asked me questions, they've been lost in the linguistic diarrhea incessantly spewing from you. I don't read the majority of your posts, merely skim to see if any of them say something worthwhile. They don't. It's been said before, but let's say it again: they use the same codebase for everything. Without creating a second repository, patcher, and client for PvP servers (like Test), they cannot and will not change the game mechanics purely for you. Your restaurant analogy is fundamentally flawed. Think of EQ2 as your favorite establishment. You frequent it often enough to notice minute problems, and you're essentially endeavoring to get the cook's attention. You want the flavour changed slightly, so yes, you should be giving reasonable suggestions instead of throwing a tantrum. Do I tell my customers to give me coding suggestions? No. If one user, or even .5% of the userbase wanted me to spend god knows how many hours catering to their wishes at the expense of a great many others, I'd tell them to [Removed for Content] off. The customer is not always right, contrary to assumptions. I used the "vision" vernacular because that's what SOE developers have always used when they make balance changes. Regardless, the balance is not focused around burst DPS. Burst DPS for meleers has always been higher with the exception of a few abilities. Even wiz/warlock nukes have long cast times.. Perhaps you missed the point about debuffs. Your spells don't land because conjurors are [I cannot control my vocabulary] debuffers. Defilers, let's say, can drop your poison/disease by ~2k, not including the hefty WIS debuffs. Bards and rogues debuff better, of course. Much as protest otherwise, you still have not come up with reasonable suggestions that will not adversely affect the rest of the game, much less methods to implement them. Try that this time. </blockquote> I missed a few things here. You seem to think I am the only one who has made this complaint. I have pointed out to you very recently that I am not. I don't care anymore if you believe me. Go look it up for yourself, if you can be bothered. .5%??? Wizards are probably the most played class in PvP. Are you ever going to make sense? Your cries of "ignore huge demographics of the game" continue, I see. If their "vision" has holes, they fix their own "vision", else there would be no nerfs. Will you please answer the other question I posed to you?The restaurant analogy is not flawed. These aren't minute problems, nor are they easily balanced. If my favorite soup needs more pepper, I'll ask. If my soup tastes like ice cream, I'm going to ask them what the hell they are doing, not go cook it for them. Whatever. I can see you aren't going to budge on continuing to ask me to fix their problems, like some form of mutant parrot. I was CRYSTAL clear as to why I'm not doing that at this time, but I can see it might make a good thread, so you many get your wish at some point. I'm not budging either, and I have told you why. Hell, I'll even repeat part of it again: it is comical that an outsider - who has no clue as to what is going on - feels he can spew so much drivel on the topic by claiming you know EQ2 PvP works because "well I PvP in other games", DIRECTLY contradict himself by saying "well I don't PvP in EQ2", then tell me it's my responsiblity to fix it. Whooops. Trapped again. Again - if you ADMIT you don't PvP, which means you CANNOT have first-hand knowledge of the problems, why in the hell are you here? Oh wait, I caught you in that one already, never mind. Keep rambling on, son.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 03:07 PM

<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Plain and simple - Vox brigands have been abusing the macros lately and/or hacking outright. This is not a grey issue, I do not want to hear debate, I do not want a flame thread, and I am not whining. But I wanted to bring this to their attention and I know they read the boards. My guild has probably sent in 20 petitions a week about this issue. Basically, brigands are hotkeying all of their CA's into one button and dumping them on people in under a second. There is no class, no amount of gear, nothing that can stand up to that. Please tell me that you are at least aware of this and I will go away. But petitions aren't working, and sadly enough, the stupid little [I cannot control my vocabulary] who play this game will do everything they can to cheat. Anyway, lame-[I cannot control my vocabulary] teens with no life are not the point of this thread. </blockquote>its not jsut the brig's....rangers do same. I'm a necro, all i see is 12 lines of dmg in my combat log and im dead.....in .9 seconds. This is totally unnacceptable. Not only do necro's have to wear cloth and can't get mit high enough to survive through attacks liek this, but we have ZERO defense. Don't BS us about having root/fear.....a ranger's rain of arrows and sniper shots are NOT as resistable as fear-root....they dont ahve to wait thru 5-10second cast timers....and they get evac and combat runspeeds. Code the god [I cannot control my vocabulary] game fairly or remove pvp, this is way mor unbalanced than that clusterf*ck Blizzard released. If sony wants to enter the pvp world correctly you MUST balance the classes. No flames no BS in this forum just fix it. </blockquote>Woohoo! The other casters are here! Get ready to be flamed, man. You have entered scoutville, and they are not happy here.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 03:09 PM

<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dnice74 wrote:</cite><blockquote></blockquote> </blockquote>When mages have a viable defense in pvp you can speak otherwise go push your 2 macros and call yourself skilled. Noobs like you cannot possibly play a cloth class in pvp very well so you resort to the easy mode. Then you come here and try and act educated. Nice try, pre-school lets out in bout 2 hours, then maybe you can go home and press your hotkeys a few times and bask in your uberness of an exploitable system that makes scout classes overpowered. </blockquote>Lol. Awesome. But get ready to be asked for combat logs, called a liar, asked how you should change it, and what your favorite color is. I've told them 50 times we have no defense, but I forget, I'm just an evil guy trying to get scouts nerfed.

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 03:09 PM

<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>its not jsut the brig's....rangers do same. I'm a necro, all i see is 12 lines of dmg in my combat log and im dead.....in .9 seconds. This is totally unnacceptable. Not only do necro's have to wear cloth and can't get mit high enough to survive through attacks liek this, but we have ZERO defense. Don't BS us about having root/fear.....a ranger's rain of arrows and sniper shots are NOT as resistable as fear-root....they dont ahve to wait thru 5-10second cast timers....and they get evac and combat runspeeds. Code the god [I cannot control my vocabulary] game fairly or remove pvp, this is way mor unbalanced than that clusterf*ck Blizzard released. If sony wants to enter the pvp world correctly you MUST balance the classes. No flames no BS in this forum just fix it. </blockquote> Balance means some classes are going to kill you with ease, and you're going to kill other classes with ease. Balance means Rock-Paper-Scissors. Welcome to MMORPGs.

Syslik

04-13-2007, 03:15 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>-snip-</blockquote>Much as protest otherwise, you still have not come up with reasonable suggestions that will not adversely affect the rest of the game, much less methods to implement them. Try that this time. </blockquote> Let me ask you directly, maybe you can succeed where syslik so miserably failed - why do they nerf anything then? Should people have "just left" when brigs/conjurors/etc needed to be nerfed before? Why are they putting in a hard cap? Is ANYONE going to answer those questions??? Anyway - thankfully, Sony doesn't share your theory. When you want to answer this question I posed to Dodad, we can continue the debate. </blockquote>I'm not suggesting you "just leave," nor would I have said it earlier. What we're looking for are some suggestions for a fix which would not adversely affect the gameplay experience for everybody else simply because a scout with his CAs up rolls you in very little time (nor is this issue specific to brigands, it certainly sounds as if rangers and swashies do the same thing). Why a hard cap? To promote longer fights, presumably, which may well be a fix to your problem anyway. Is it really a debate if you're not actually responding with anything other than flaming?

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 03:17 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Lol. Awesome. But get ready to be asked for combat logs, called a liar, asked how you should change it, and what your favorite color is. I've told them 50 times we have no defense, but I forget, I'm just an evil guy trying to get scouts nerfed. </blockquote> You've also been told (i'll paraphrase):1) MMORPGs are generally based, as this one is, around a system of RPS. One class dominates the next, and that one dominates the next, ect. Your life as a clothy is to kill certain classes that are easier for you, and be at a disadvantage against other classes. Any change to this balance for your benefit will cause a change in the balance somewhere else. If you have a good suggestion that encompases not just your balance vs rogues but all class balance then please share.2) EQ2 is a group game for both PvE and PvP. Much as your playstyle may not align with this mentality, it doesn't change the fundamental nature of the game nor the vision of its creators or current caretakers.3) Calling something an exploit/hack, being proven time and again that it's not the case, and you not apologizing or at least backing down from that declaration makes you a flaming troll who came here looking for a fight and got one. (i think 1 or 2 people have said this anyway).Sorry for the recap, but you listed some things people told you, i just thought i'd mention a few you've been told that you didn't mention.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 03:24 PM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Funny, i respecced my AAs to be a little better off in pvp the other night, and in 7 scouts fights one on one i have lost one of them to an assassin who's decap made me faint. The brig this post was about died when i was in orange, and i let him initiate combat. Its not too terribly hard to kill nearly any class with the right gear/spec, you just have to know exactly what works for each class/player. </blockquote>But yet, here was Captain America earlier in the thread:--------------------------------------------------------------- I fight him all the time, because he sits in the same spot day in and day out waiting for people to come along and attack him, with an easy getaway when a full group comes strolling in. He knows his class very well, i've gone 1v1 with him many times, and only 2 times have i won. I'm also a raid geared warlock, all master 1's, with a crapload of pvp experience under my belt. Wreakin, i will agree with you, it absolutely blows being killed before you had a chance to finish casting a root, even when you were on your toes, because it happens to me all the time.----------------------------------------------------------------Now you're bragging, as if brigands are a cakewalk??? So one AA respec takes you from someone in my shoes to the "l337 scourge of brigands" in a flash? So you've killed him 3 times out of 50 and you're a god now? What group buffs did you have on? So it blows being killed before you cast a root, but I'm just here to stir the pot, huh? You're a hypocrite and a phony, Gromann, and you'll pardon me if I don't believe a thing you say. You have no credibility in my eyes or anyone else's, and I'm just getting started with you. I'd love to see you weasel your way out of this one.

Syslik

04-13-2007, 03:26 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>I missed a few things here. You seem to think I am the only one who has made this complaint. I have pointed out to you very recently that I am not. I don't care anymore if you believe me. Go look it up for yourself, if you can be bothered. .5%??? Wizards are probably the most played class in PvP. Are you ever going to make sense? Your cries of "ignore huge demographics of the game" continue, I see. If their "vision" has holes, they fix their own "vision", else there would be no nerfs. Will you please answer the other question I posed to you?The restaurant analogy is not flawed. These aren't minute problems, nor are they easily balanced. If my favorite soup needs more pepper, I'll ask. If my soup tastes like ice cream, I'm going to ask them what the hell they are doing, not go cook it for them. Whatever. I can see you aren't going to budge on continuing to ask me to fix their problems, like some form of mutant parrot. I was CRYSTAL clear as to why I'm not doing that at this time, but I can see it might make a good thread, so you many get your wish at some point. I'm not budging either, and I have told you why. Hell, I'll even repeat part of it again: it is comical that an outsider - who has no clue as to what is going on - feels he can spew so much drivel on the topic by claiming you know EQ2 PvP works because "well I PvP in other games", DIRECTLY contradict himself by saying "well I don't PvP in EQ2", then tell me it's my responsiblity to fix it. Whooops. Trapped again. Again - if you ADMIT you don't PvP, which means you CANNOT have first-hand knowledge of the problems, why in the hell are you here? Oh wait, I caught you in that one already, never mind. Keep rambling on, son. </blockquote>You grossly overestimate the effectiveness of your "debating." Whether or not I PvP in EQ2 has no relevance on a discussion of what is, essentially, a system of mathematics which anybody who plays EQ2 knows. Sure, the effects may be different in PvP, since players are craftier than mobs, but you're suggesting core gameplay changes in order to remedy it. I don't think you're the only one who's made this complaint, merely that you are the most vocal and least willing to admit that it could possibly be either your fault, or the way things were intended to be. While I've seen a few people claiming the same thing as you, there are also a number of other cloth classes (warlocks, enchanters, wizards) who have disagreed with you in this thread and others in this section (PvP, obviously). If you persist in using the restaurant analogy, consider that your idea of the soup is wrong. You're expecting something wholly different than what that soup has always been at this restaurant, as well as others, but you want the recipe changed. Yes, the onus for suggestions is on you. Not fixing it, but telling them what you want in a manner clearer than "less or more something would make this better" and without inanity such as "you should sell the convection oven you need for the cake that guy likes in order to buy a bigger stockpot for my soup." Did I ever claim I knew how EQ2 PvP worked? No. I said I know how EQ2 works, and how cloth vs. melee DPS PvP has gone in every other game.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 03:33 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Lol. Awesome. But get ready to be asked for combat logs, called a liar, asked how you should change it, and what your favorite color is. I've told them 50 times we have no defense, but I forget, I'm just an evil guy trying to get scouts nerfed. </blockquote> You've also been told (i'll paraphrase):1) MMORPGs are generally based, as this one is, around a system of RPS. One class dominates the next, and that one dominates the next, ect. Your life as a clothy is to kill certain classes that are easier for you, and be at a disadvantage against other classes. Any change to this balance for your benefit will cause a change in the balance somewhere else. If you have a good suggestion that encompases not just your balance vs rogues but all class balance then please share.2) EQ2 is a group game for both PvE and PvP. Much as your playstyle may not align with this mentality, it doesn't change the fundamental nature of the game nor the vision of its creators or current caretakers.3) Calling something an exploit/hack, being proven time and again that it's not the case, and you not apologizing or at least backing down from that declaration makes you a flaming troll who came here looking for a fight and got one. (i think 1 or 2 people have said this anyway).Sorry for the recap, but you listed some things people told you, i just thought i'd mention a few you've been told that you didn't mention.</blockquote>1. Incontrovertible fact: We've been here and back infinitely, and very recently. I will not repeat myself again. Not only are you ignoring my VERY pointed answers to this question, you are parroting Syslik's gigantic red herring of "well give us the answers or your point is invalid" crap. What do you have against fish? 2. Same, and with a giant /eyeroll thrown in. Your point here is no more of a resolution to the issue now than it was 20 pages ago. 3. Why should I apologize? I don't know they weren't. Not backing down? ha. hahah. HA. HAHAHAH. HAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH ehm. Boz, come on. I've backed down from that and re-stated my stance so many times it's not even funny. Why are we now discussing balance, instead of hacks? If you are not going to pay attention to such an immense degree, I suggest you do so next time in an attempt to not look so foolish.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 03:35 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote> </blockquote> Balance means some classes are going to kill you with ease, and you're going to kill other classes with ease. Balance means Rock-Paper-Scissors. Welcome to MMORPGs.</blockquote> Shag, ignore him. Seriously. Don't even respond. He will go on infinitely until you break your skull against the screen. Boz has a very sad habit of bringing up points that have been dead for 20 pages, no matter how much it has been xplained to him. I have tried to tell him this, but he is too stubborn for his own good, even when he makes no sense.

Syslik

04-13-2007, 03:38 PM

Since you seem to have the memory of a goldfish, the reason we are discussing balance now is that you switched gears after about 3 pages of insisting that brigs were, in fact, hacking even after a number of people looked at the logs and identified the specific attack chain which was used. You moved on to them being OP with anecdotes about a lone brig destroying a swash and fury, promised logs for that, never posted them, and utterly ignored Firamas' exceptionally well-reasoned post which blew you out of the water in every regard. Not once in this thread have you issued an apology to anybody, you merely latch on to the next doorway as the multitudes of the rational drag you bodily from your isolated little world, all the while insisting that any positive focus left in this thread is of your accord.

Groma

04-13-2007, 03:39 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Funny, i respecced my AAs to be a little better off in pvp the other night, and in 7 scouts fights one on one i have lost one of them to an assassin who's decap made me faint. The brig this post was about died when i was in orange, and i let him initiate combat. Its not too terribly hard to kill nearly any class with the right gear/spec, you just have to know exactly what works for each class/player. </blockquote>But yet, here was Captain America earlier in the thread:--------------------------------------------------------------- I fight him all the time, because he sits in the same spot day in and day out waiting for people to come along and attack him, with an easy getaway when a full group comes strolling in. He knows his class very well, i've gone 1v1 with him many times, and only 2 times have i won. I'm also a raid geared warlock, all master 1's, with a crapload of pvp experience under my belt. Wreakin, i will agree with you, it absolutely blows being killed before you had a chance to finish casting a root, even when you were on your toes, because it happens to me all the time.----------------------------------------------------------------Now you're bragging, as if brigands are a cakewalk??? So one AA respec takes you from someone in my shoes to the "l337 scourge of brigands" in a flash? So you've killed him 3 times out of 50 and you're a god now? What group buffs did you have on? So it blows being killed before you cast a root, but I'm just here to stir the pot, huh? You're a hypocrite and a phony, Gromann, and you'll pardon me if I don't believe a thing you say. You have no credibility in my eyes or anyone else's, and I'm just getting started with you. I'd love to see you weasel your way out of this one. </blockquote>Nice you you completely overlooked my first sentence in the thread and went straight to your flaming, thats the reason everyone in this thread has given you such a hard time. You skip anything that doesn't support your theory, and bash everyone who is against it. I never said brigs were a cakewalk. That post was also made when i thought you were talking about Zeebs, and not Famine, but you already forgot that one too i guess. As for the AA respec, yes going from pure dps, to pure defense, makes a night and day difference in pvp as a cloth caster, maybe you should try it. Don't see where you get 2 of 50 from, but with all the other things you have pulled out of thin air in this thread its no suprise. I don't need to weasel my way out of this one. You just proved that you can't stick to your word. Go ahead and re-read your two posts a page or so back where you said you were done replying to me, and then followed up by done in this thread, but not done all together. You just can't handle it when someone disagrees with you, can you?

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 03:43 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>1. Incontrovertible fact: We've been here and back infinitely, and very recently. I will not repeat myself again. Not only are you ignoring my VERY pointed answers to this question, you are parroting Syslik's gigantic red herring of "well give us the answers or your point is invalid" crap. What do you have against fish? 2. Same, and with a giant /eyeroll thrown in. Your point here is no more of a resolution to the issue now than it was 20 pages ago. 3. Why should I apologize? I don't know they weren't. Not backing down? ha. hahah. HA. HAHAHAH. HAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH ehm. Boz, come on. I've backed down from that and re-stated my stance so many times it's not even funny. Why are we now discussing balance, instead of hacks? If you are not going to pay attention to such an immense degree, I suggest you do so next time in an attempt to not look so foolish. </blockquote> You're replying to me as if i'm trying to re-make the points. I'm not. Your fellow clothy came along, and you gave him what is, in my opinion, a very bitter and incomplete recap of what you've gotten as a response from your fellow players.I simply responded with some things you left off. Various people have made those points, and continue to do so. For the sake of this new person who is joining the conversation, I tried to set the record straight.

Groma

04-13-2007, 03:43 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>And I'm not done with you yet, either, schmuck. Just not in this thread, as I promised. </blockquote>Just making it easier for you, its easy to get lost in all the [Removed for Content].

dnice74

04-13-2007, 03:52 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: You grossly overestimate the effectiveness of your "debating." Whether or not I PvP in EQ2 has no relevance on a discussion of what is, essentially, a system of mathematics which anybody who plays EQ2 knows. Sure, the effects may be different in PvP, since players are craftier than mobs, but you're suggesting core gameplay changes in order to remedy it. I don't think you're the only one who's made this complaint, merely that you are the most vocal and least willing to admit that it could possibly be either your fault, or the way things were intended to be. While I've seen a few people claiming the same thing as you, there are also a number of other cloth classes (warlocks, enchanters, wizards) who have disagreed with you in this thread and others in this section (PvP, obviously). If you persist in using the restaurant analogy, consider that your idea of the soup is wrong. You're expecting something wholly different than what that soup has always been at this restaurant, as well as others, but you want the recipe changed. Yes, the onus for suggestions is on you. Not fixing it, but telling them what you want in a manner clearer than "less or more something would make this better" and without inanity such as "you should sell the convection oven you need for the cake that guy likes in order to buy a bigger stockpot for my soup." Did I ever claim I knew how EQ2 PvP worked? No. I said I know how EQ2 works, and how cloth vs. melee DPS PvP has gone in every other game. </blockquote> Says the guy who has been caught contradicting himself, been exposed for coming into this thread with a single purpose, and displayed nothing but how incredibly little he knows about PvP. Let's do this. I give you 20 well-thought out things I think the devs could do to improve this problem. Now that I've given your little distraction argument an answer, what will you say? You won't be able to shoot my ideas down, because as you have CLEARLY said AND demonstrated, you don't know PvP. Therefore, you cannot even say "how they would change gameplay" - not that I've even made any suggestions that would do so to any huge degree - because you don't even know. Who should listen to a blue player? NO ONE, especially as inept as you are. And what do you finish this response with? RPS, blah blah blah. NEWSFLASH: this isn't every other game. Ducks in a barrel, ducks in a barrel. You are more clever than I gave you credit for. You cling to your little red herring just so that you have a reason to stay in this thread and debate. Meanwhile, you have nothing to suggest, don't even [Removed for Content] PvP, and I caught you RED-HANDED in a trap showing how you came here to troll(and I DARE you to make me go get where I caught you, just so I can show people what you are one more time, in case they forgot). I didn't see it before, but your goose is cooked, son. Game, set, match. Goodbye, Syslik. It was more pathetic than fun.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 03:53 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>1. Incontrovertible fact: We've been here and back infinitely, and very recently. I will not repeat myself again. Not only are you ignoring my VERY pointed answers to this question, you are parroting Syslik's gigantic red herring of "well give us the answers or your point is invalid" crap. What do you have against fish? 2. Same, and with a giant /eyeroll thrown in. Your point here is no more of a resolution to the issue now than it was 20 pages ago. 3. Why should I apologize? I don't know they weren't. Not backing down? ha. hahah. HA. HAHAHAH. HAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH ehm. Boz, come on. I've backed down from that and re-stated my stance so many times it's not even funny. Why are we now discussing balance, instead of hacks? If you are not going to pay attention to such an immense degree, I suggest you do so next time in an attempt to not look so foolish. </blockquote> You're replying to me as if i'm trying to re-make the points. I'm not. Your fellow clothy came along, and you gave him what is, in my opinion, a very bitter and incomplete recap of what you've gotten as a response from your fellow players.I simply responded with some things you left off. Various people have made those points, and continue to do so. For the sake of this new person who is joining the conversation, I tried to set the record straight.</blockquote>Good, because those points are as dead as Elvis. Bye then.

Syslik

04-13-2007, 04:07 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Says the guy who has been caught contradicting himself, been exposed for coming into this thread with a single purpose, and displayed nothing but how incredibly little he knows about PvP. Let's do this. I give you 20 well-thought out things I think the devs could do to improve this problem. Now that I've given your little distraction argument an answer, what will you say? You won't be able to shoot my ideas down, because as you have CLEARLY said AND demonstrated, you don't know PvP. Therefore, you cannot even say "how they would change gameplay" - not that I've even made any suggestions that would do so to any huge degree - because you don't even know. Who should listen to a blue player? NO ONE, especially as inept as you are. And what do you finish this response with? RPS, blah blah blah. NEWSFLASH: this isn't every other game. Ducks in a barrel, ducks in a barrel. You are more clever than I gave you credit for. You cling to your little red herring just so that you have a reason to stay in this thread and debate. Meanwhile, you have nothing to suggest, don't even [I cannot control my vocabulary] PvP, and I caught you RED-HANDED in a trap showing how you came here to troll(and I DARE you to make me go get where I caught you, just so I can show people what you are one more time, in case they forgot). I didn't see it before, but your goose is cooked, son. Game, set, match. Goodbye, Syslik. It was more pathetic than fun. </blockquote>Ugh, this is exactly what I mean. I've been "caught contradicting myself?" By whom? I'm caught "red handed" and "in a trap"?? As if you oh so skillfully lured me here just to show me how I came here to troll! I'm sorry, but I don't think you know what a troll is. The definition is not "somebody who disagrees with Wreakinn'" Your dare is accepted. Where are your 20 well-thought out things? I'm just as qualified as you are to say how they'd change gameplay, since as I've already noted, any changed would be game-wide. They'd also affect us on the PvE servers, as well as the PvE experience on red servers. NEWSFLASH: The name of the game is Everquest 2. It's a sequel. I hardly need a reason to stay in a thread on a public forum. Nothing you can say would really keep me out if I wanted to. What I have to suggest is that you finally get to the point after far too many pages and offer up what you think should be done.

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 04:16 PM

slick.. you do know that there are actually different code bases for pvp, right?A combat art that does X to a mob will still do the exact same X to a mob on a PvP server as it does on a PvE server.A combat art that does X to a mob can do something siginificantly different than X to a player on a PvP server than it does to a mob.

Syslik

04-13-2007, 04:17 PM

Identical codebase. You'll see the same effect in a /duel on a PvE server. Any PvP mechanics changes in the patch notes show up there also.

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 04:20 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Identical codebase. You'll see the same effect in a /duel on a PvE server. Any PvP mechanics changes in the patch notes show up there also. </blockquote>No. A /duel is the same as an arena battle on a pvp server. It's the PVE code base.The PvP code base is different. On a pvp server your combat arts and spells all have a "pvp" check box. When you click it you will see what the affect would be in PvP.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 04:20 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Says the guy who has been caught contradicting himself, been exposed for coming into this thread with a single purpose, and displayed nothing but how incredibly little he knows about PvP. Let's do this. I give you 20 well-thought out things I think the devs could do to improve this problem. Now that I've given your little distraction argument an answer, what will you say? You won't be able to shoot my ideas down, because as you have CLEARLY said AND demonstrated, you don't know PvP. Therefore, you cannot even say "how they would change gameplay" - not that I've even made any suggestions that would do so to any huge degree - because you don't even know. Who should listen to a blue player? NO ONE, especially as inept as you are. And what do you finish this response with? RPS, blah blah blah. NEWSFLASH: this isn't every other game. Ducks in a barrel, ducks in a barrel. You are more clever than I gave you credit for. You cling to your little red herring just so that you have a reason to stay in this thread and debate. Meanwhile, you have nothing to suggest, don't even [I cannot control my vocabulary] PvP, and I caught you RED-HANDED in a trap showing how you came here to troll(and I DARE you to make me go get where I caught you, just so I can show people what you are one more time, in case they forgot). I didn't see it before, but your goose is cooked, son. Game, set, match. Goodbye, Syslik. It was more pathetic than fun. </blockquote>Ugh, this is exactly what I mean. I've been "caught contradicting myself?" By whom? I'm caught "red handed" and "in a trap"?? As if you oh so skillfully lured me here just to show me how I came here to troll! I'm sorry, but I don't think you know what a troll is. The definition is not "somebody who disagrees with Wreakinn'" Your dare is accepted. Where are your 20 well-thought out things? I'm just as qualified as you are to say how they'd change gameplay, since as I've already noted, any changed would be game-wide. They'd also affect us on the PvE servers, as well as the PvE experience on red servers. NEWSFLASH: The name of the game is Everquest 2. It's a sequel. I hardly need a reason to stay in a thread on a public forum. Nothing you can say would really keep me out if I wanted to. What I have to suggest is that you finally get to the point after far too many pages and offer up what you think should be done. </blockquote>BUT IT'S A SEQUEL! Therefore, you can argue about PvP, because you PvP'd in EQ1, which means...uh....huh...what?No they wouldn't, you knucklehead. If they tone down PvP damage, for example, IT DOES NOTHING TO PVE. A parting gift to you: From Syslik:I came into this thread because you are precisely what you accused me of being (a condescending [I cannot control my vocabulary]), and you've spent 23 pages flaming anybody who disagrees with you (with the added bonus of calling all of us flamers and trolls).Like I said, game over. Stay in this thread all you want. I don't even care if you magically conjure up something intelligent to debate about. You're done, no soup for you.

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 04:20 PM

dnice74

04-13-2007, 04:22 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Identical codebase. You'll see the same effect in a /duel on a PvE server. Any PvP mechanics changes in the patch notes show up there also. </blockquote>No. A /duel is the same as an arena battle on a pvp server. It's the PVE code base.The PvP code base is different. On a pvp server your combat arts and spells all have a "pvp" check box. When you click it you will see what the affect would be in PvP. </blockquote> rofl....even Boz is picking apart your "arguments" now. You're [Removed for Content].

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 04:25 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>rofl....even Boz is picking apart your "arguments" now. You're [I cannot control my vocabulary]. </blockquote> Not picking apart his arguments, i'm educating him and sharing information. The basis of his assumption is the same in that he can participate in the conversation w/o playing pvp. But he should understand that the devs could have have implimented things for PvP that have no affect on PvE.But the fundamental theory of RPS applies here. The fundamental idea that if you change the balance (or imbalance if you will) you should consider all it's affects throughout the game.

Syslik

04-13-2007, 04:40 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>BUT IT'S A SEQUEL! Therefore, you can argue about PvP, because you PvP'd in EQ1, which means...uh....huh...what?No they wouldn't, you knucklehead. If they tone down PvP damage, for example, IT DOES NOTHING TO PVE. A parting gift to you: From Syslik:I came into this thread because you are precisely what you accused me of being (a condescending [I cannot control my vocabulary]), and you've spent 23 pages flaming anybody who disagrees with you (with the added bonus of calling all of us flamers and trolls).Like I said, game over. Stay in this thread all you want. I don't even care if you magically conjure up something intelligent to debate about. You're done, no soup for you. </blockquote>I'm not debating PvP, nor comparing my EQ1 experiences. What I'm saying is that it's a sequel, therefore the basic balance and precepts that guided EQLive also guide EQ2. The argument that "it's a whole new ballgame" is fundamentally flawed. From me: I came into this thread to try to inject an outside perspective and to perhaps prod you into a direction which may be beneficial rather than flaming and rambling, as I said in my first post. That I called you a condescending flamer does not imply that I am one. <cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>Identical codebase. You'll see the same effect in a /duel on a PvE server. Any PvP mechanics changes in the patch notes show up there also. </blockquote>No. A /duel is the same as an arena battle on a pvp server. It's the PVE code base.The PvP code base is different. On a pvp server your combat arts and spells all have a "pvp" check box. When you click it you will see what the affect would be in PvP. </blockquote>And that is precisely the point. They have a "PvP" check box so they do not have to entirely rewrite mitigation (of which resists are of course a part), cooldowns, or anything else. Simply modifying the effects of CAs and spells if you're fighting a player in PvP is not the same kind of change I was referring to. Wholesale changes to mitigation versus a PC affect arena battles and duels also, and any modifications to cooldowns would necessarily effect the core gameplay system.

Bozidar

04-13-2007, 04:44 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>And that is precisely the point. They have a "PvP" check box so they do not have to entirely rewrite mitigation (of which resists are of course a part), cooldowns, or anything else. Simply modifying the effects of CAs and spells if you're fighting a player in PvP is not the same kind of change I was referring to. Wholesale changes to mitigation versus a PC affect arena battles and duels also, and any modifications to cooldowns would necessarily effect the core gameplay system. </blockquote> Correct. His flawed suggestion that the cool-down change vs clothies was... Well, it was bad. I'm trying to be nice here, it was much worse than a bad suggestion. This is something that's not doable in any way shape or form given the current design of modifying affects of a CA/Spell for pvp. Those CA/Spellss do not change in duration, casting time, nor re-cast time for PvP, and trying to impliment such a design would probably make 90% of the developers from SoE quit.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 04:46 PM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Gromann wrote: But yet, here was Captain America earlier in the thread:--------------------------------------------------------------- I fight him all the time, because he sits in the same spot day in and day out waiting for people to come along and attack him, with an easy getaway when a full group comes strolling in. He knows his class very well, i've gone 1v1 with him many times, and only 2 times have i won. I'm also a raid geared warlock, all master 1's, with a crapload of pvp experience under my belt. Wreakin, i will agree with you, it absolutely blows being killed before you had a chance to finish casting a root, even when you were on your toes, because it happens to me all the time.----------------------------------------------------------------Now you're bragging, as if brigands are a cakewalk??? So one AA respec takes you from someone in my shoes to the "l337 scourge of brigands" in a flash? So you've killed him 3 times out of 50 and you're a god now? What group buffs did you have on? So it blows being killed before you cast a root, but I'm just here to stir the pot, huh? You're a hypocrite and a phony, Gromann, and you'll pardon me if I don't believe a thing you say. You have no credibility in my eyes or anyone else's, and I'm just getting started with you. I'd love to see you weasel your way out of this one. </blockquote>Nice you you completely overlooked my first sentence in the thread and went straight to your flaming, thats the reason everyone in this thread has given you such a hard time. You skip anything that doesn't support your theory, and bash everyone who is against it. I never said brigs were a cakewalk. That post was also made when i thought you were talking about Zeebs, and not Famine, but you already forgot that one too i guess. As for the AA respec, yes going from pure dps, to pure defense, makes a night and day difference in pvp as a cloth caster, maybe you should try it. Don't see where you get 2 of 50 from, but with all the other things you have pulled out of thin air in this thread its no suprise. I don't need to weasel my way out of this one. You just proved that you can't stick to your word. Go ahead and re-read your two posts a page or so back where you said you were done replying to me, and then followed up by done in this thread, but not done all together. You just can't handle it when someone disagrees with you, can you? </blockquote>Your first sentence in the thread was a childish jibe which I pretty much overlooked. I then said "that I was disappointed, blah blah". I didn't flip out at all, and people can look this up for themselves. Following down, they will see that YOU were the first one to take it over the top. Who gives a fig what you thought? YOU went over the top, did YOU apologize? Heck no, so spare us all. I didn't forget it, I just ignored your half-[Removed for Content] attempt at an apology the second I saw that you started running your mouth again. Back to the thread: I'm not a warlock, dippy. No manashield(a 15k ward if it works like animist's bond, and he STILL almost beat you), no null-mail, no two-hit for mega-damage combos. If I am wrong in including warlocks among the int casters that have trouble with brigs, so be it. My defensive AA's(I still have 6 in parry and 8 in my heal) suck. Pet taunt sucks, and once I get thugs on me I get taunted to kingdom come anyway (my AoE takes away maybe 40% of their life if I can even use it). Tell you what though, I'll go respec my entire tree tonight(I've done this before, you make it sound like I haven't tried this), sacrifice all my DPS, and send Famine a tell after we raid so that he can house me in 3.5 seconds as opposed to 2.5. That should be a funny log. Thing is though, it's not even real PvP. I have said if I start from far away, yeah, I can take down any scout. How often does this apply to what usually happens?Where did I get two of 50? You said you've beaten him 2 out of all the times you fought. 20, 40, 50, 8000, whatever. Now it's 3 with full defensive AA's, you most likely had group buffs, manashield, and null-mail, and he still almost won. My point - don't change your tune. Come back to me when you can do this at least 3 times in 10. Hell, I'd be happy with that. I'd bow to the shrine of RPS for that. I didn't break my word - this is a valid discussion. I'm not talking about your troll guildmates, am I?

Ameniel

04-13-2007, 04:49 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Good, because those points are as dead as Elvis. Bye then. </blockquote>Omg dood Elvis isnt dead...hes right there n stuff!<img src="http://outdoors.mainetoday.com/downhillskiing/skibum/Shawnee%20Elvis%20impersonator%20450.jpg" border="0">

dnice74

04-13-2007, 04:51 PM

<cite>Ameniel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Good, because those points are as dead as Elvis. Bye then. </blockquote>Omg dood Elvis isnt dead...hes right there n stuff!<img src="http://outdoors.mainetoday.com/downhillskiing/skibum/Shawnee%20Elvis%20impersonator%20450.jpg" border="0"></blockquote>Ick.

Ameniel

04-13-2007, 04:55 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>If I am wrong in including warlocks among the int casters that have trouble with brigs, so be it. </blockquote>Enchanters have, in this thread, said they can beat brigs on a regular basis. Now you seem to not be sure that warlocks have trouble with brigs all the time. Lol...you've gone from brigs vs int casters to just brigs vs conjurer. How convenient! Can you say 'owned?'<img src="http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/blog/kings/archives/NGUYEN_08.jpg" border="0">

Groma

04-13-2007, 05:00 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Gromann wrote: But yet, here was Captain America earlier in the thread:--------------------------------------------------------------- I fight him all the time, because he sits in the same spot day in and day out waiting for people to come along and attack him, with an easy getaway when a full group comes strolling in. He knows his class very well, i've gone 1v1 with him many times, and only 2 times have i won. I'm also a raid geared warlock, all master 1's, with a crapload of pvp experience under my belt. Wreakin, i will agree with you, it absolutely blows being killed before you had a chance to finish casting a root, even when you were on your toes, because it happens to me all the time.----------------------------------------------------------------Now you're bragging, as if brigands are a cakewalk??? So one AA respec takes you from someone in my shoes to the "l337 scourge of brigands" in a flash? So you've killed him 3 times out of 50 and you're a god now? What group buffs did you have on? So it blows being killed before you cast a root, but I'm just here to stir the pot, huh? You're a hypocrite and a phony, Gromann, and you'll pardon me if I don't believe a thing you say. You have no credibility in my eyes or anyone else's, and I'm just getting started with you. I'd love to see you weasel your way out of this one. </blockquote>Nice you you completely overlooked my first sentence in the thread and went straight to your flaming, thats the reason everyone in this thread has given you such a hard time. You skip anything that doesn't support your theory, and bash everyone who is against it. I never said brigs were a cakewalk. That post was also made when i thought you were talking about Zeebs, and not Famine, but you already forgot that one too i guess. As for the AA respec, yes going from pure dps, to pure defense, makes a night and day difference in pvp as a cloth caster, maybe you should try it. Don't see where you get 2 of 50 from, but with all the other things you have pulled out of thin air in this thread its no suprise. I don't need to weasel my way out of this one. You just proved that you can't stick to your word. Go ahead and re-read your two posts a page or so back where you said you were done replying to me, and then followed up by done in this thread, but not done all together. You just can't handle it when someone disagrees with you, can you? </blockquote>Your first sentence in the thread was a childish jibe which I pretty much overlooked. I then said "that I was disappointed, blah blah". I didn't flip out at all, and people can look this up for themselves. Following down, they will see that YOU were the first one to take it over the top. Who gives a fig what you thought? YOU went over the top, did YOU apologize? Heck no, so spare us all. I didn't forget it, I just ignored your half-[Removed for Content] attempt at an apology the second I saw that you started running your mouth again. Back to the thread: I'm not a warlock, dippy. No manashield(a 15k ward if it works like animist's bond, and he STILL almost beat you), no null-mail, no two-hit for mega-damage combos. If I am wrong in including warlocks among the int casters that have trouble with brigs, so be it. My defensive AA's(I still have 6 in parry and 8 in my heal) suck. Pet taunt sucks, and once I get thugs on me I get taunted to kingdom come anyway (my AoE takes away maybe 40% of their life if I can even use it). Tell you what though, I'll go respec my entire tree tonight(I've done this before, you make it sound like I haven't tried this), sacrifice all my DPS, and send Famine a tell after we raid so that he can house me in 3.5 seconds as opposed to 2.5. That should be a funny log. Thing is though, it's not even real PvP. I have said if I start from far away, yeah, I can take down any scout. How often does this apply to what usually happens?Where did I get two of 50? You said you've beaten him 2 out of all the times you fought. 20, 40, 50, 8000, whatever. Now it's 3 with full defensive AA's, you most likely had group buffs, manashield, and null-mail, and he still almost won. My point - don't change your tune. Come back to me when you can do this at least 3 times in 10. Hell, I'd be happy with that. I'd bow to the shrine of RPS for that. I didn't break my word - this is a valid discussion. I'm not talking about your troll guildmates, am I?</blockquote>You first point is moot, i accidentally typed first sentence in the THREAD when i meant first sentence in the POST that you quoted, oh well. Warlocks don't get a 15k ward, not even close. Manashield makes all damage come out of our power pool instead of HP, but we can still be stunned, stifled, and there is plenty that can eat a power poll in seconds, as well as the many abilities that can outright dispel it. I don't get any 2hit for mega damage combos, against a well geared player, my Apocolypse is lucky to tick for 700 in pvp, and rift is a joke compared to my single target damage, so no comparison there. For your 3rd paragraph, i was talking about Zeebs, which i clarified in the post you quoted, but you are so dead set on avoiding anything that contradicts you that you skipped over it aparently. This was actually my first 1v1 with Famine, and i tore him a new one. And you did break your word, "sparky" Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote> The last word is yours - there will be no words to either of you, unless either of you [I cannot control my vocabulary] trolls actually have something RELEVANT to add. Try me. </blockquote>

dnice74

04-13-2007, 05:01 PM

<cite>Ameniel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>If I am wrong in including warlocks among the int casters that have trouble with brigs, so be it. </blockquote>Enchanters have, in this thread, said they can beat brigs on a regular basis. Now you seem to not be sure that warlocks have trouble with brigs all the time. Lol...you've gone from brigs vs int casters to just brigs vs conjurer. How convenient! Can you say 'owned?'<img src="http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/blog/kings/archives/NGUYEN_08.jpg" border="0"></blockquote>So? I just said the same thing to Gromman, who has not proved anything about how he is able to hang with brigs now. One good fight, no circumstances, and I'm owned. K sport. One enchanter, who is among the best in the game, who also has 41 mezzes makes a post and I'm owned. Right. /yawn

Syslik

04-13-2007, 05:44 PM

You're never going to make suggestions, are you?

dnice74

04-13-2007, 06:02 PM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: </blockquote></blockquote>You first point is moot, i accidentally typed first sentence in the THREAD when i meant first sentence in the POST that you quoted, oh well. Warlocks don't get a 15k ward, not even close. Manashield makes all damage come out of our power pool instead of HP, but we can still be stunned, stifled, and there is plenty that can eat a power poll in seconds, as well as the many abilities that can outright dispel it. I don't get any 2hit for mega damage combos, against a well geared player, my Apocolypse is lucky to tick for 700 in pvp, and rift is a joke compared to my single target damage, so no comparison there. For your 3rd paragraph, i was talking about Zeebs, which i clarified in the post you quoted, but you are so dead set on avoiding anything that contradicts you that you skipped over it aparently. This was actually my first 1v1 with Famine, and i tore him a new one. And you did break your word, "sparky" Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote> The last word is yours - there will be no words to either of you, unless either of you [I cannot control my vocabulary] trolls actually have something RELEVANT to add. Try me. </blockquote> </blockquote> Do I have to go quote the first few call and responses between you and I? Go do that and tell me who gets nasty first. Or you can keep avoiding it, because you are such a great guy, right? You'd never do that, would you?So let me get this straight...you've fought him once, and now you are qualified to say "defensive AA's ftw! brigs aren't that bad!" One AA change and you go from getting smoked by Zeebs (who is not too far off from Famine's gear) to waxing Famine. Uh, ok. Did you not have MS before? Again - what buffs did you have up? Manashield, null-mail, god knows what else you get. You rarely solo, and I do mean rarely. So tell us what group buffs you had on? How about a combat log? Answers to any of these? Please? Stop dismissing MS like it is some junk buff. That effectively gives you what, 16k??? Does every class have dispel arcane? Does it work every time? My "manashield" is an AA that I have to spend 9 AA's in just to get my pet to block 90% of damage 20% of the time. Or I can spend 16 AA's for a chance to get my pet's avoidance. Let's see, full defensive AA's = 9+16(8% parry)+16(32% thingy)+12(full 1k heal). To do that....oh wait, I can't. Not only is it too many AA's, but I'd have to sacrifice Animist's Bond, which basically would mean people could one-shot my pet by breathing on it. Then I lose all my crits, Implode, and weaken my pet as well....so that brigands can still pulverize me. But hey, I'm a house on an open plain against them! Now if we could get rid of all this pesky terrain....Rift is a joke....ok bud, puff puff pass. Downplay Apoc too? right. And then back it up with how your single target DPS cranks! My biggest single target nuke is 1k. LEET. [Removed for Content], maybe I should just roll a warlock or an illy, or be happy that I own healers. No wonder Zeebs has one. The point of all this - I have none of this. So again - maybe I was wrong to include warlocks. Then again - maybe not, because your gigantic sample size doesn't leave me in awe, forgive me.Soooooooo. Nothing you said in your reply relates to caster vs scout PvP. Uhhhhhh, ok.

dnice74

04-13-2007, 06:03 PM

Syslik@Guk wrote: <blockquote>You're never going to make suggestions, are you? </blockquote>I made some. I explained to you why I'm done talking to you. Run along now, I eagerly await your flames.

Ameniel

04-13-2007, 06:04 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote> One good fight, no circumstances, and I'm owned. K sport. One enchanter, who is among the best in the game, who also has 41 mezzes makes a post and I'm owned. Right. /yawn </blockquote>Who's this 'best in the game' chanter? Also didn't realize they get 41 mezzes. And they are int casters, and you did say brigs vs 'int casters'. And...you are owned, youv'e been owning yourself this whole thread. <img src="http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/spotlite/slpress/slapped6.jpg" border="0">

Syslik

04-13-2007, 06:08 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote>I made some. I explained to you why I'm done talking to you. Run along now, I eagerly await your flames. </blockquote>You put forth no reasonable ideas which could be implemented without utterly breaking the game or requiring man-years of coding effort. I thought you had 20 suggestions? Ignoring me does not abrogate the need to do something constructive, and I'm not going away. Where are you taking this thread now? A discussion on the merits of manashield or how your AAs revolve around your pet (again, your class-defining feature) while never even attempting to solve the "problem" of you vs. a brig while all the while maintaining that the developers should brainstorm about Wreakinn's thread?

Groma

04-13-2007, 06:21 PM

Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wreakinn@Vox wrote: </blockquote></blockquote>You first point is moot, i accidentally typed first sentence in the THREAD when i meant first sentence in the POST that you quoted, oh well. Warlocks don't get a 15k ward, not even close. Manashield makes all damage come out of our power pool instead of HP, but we can still be stunned, stifled, and there is plenty that can eat a power poll in seconds, as well as the many abilities that can outright dispel it. I don't get any 2hit for mega damage combos, against a well geared player, my Apocolypse is lucky to tick for 700 in pvp, and rift is a joke compared to my single target damage, so no comparison there. For your 3rd paragraph, i was talking about Zeebs, which i clarified in the post you quoted, but you are so dead set on avoiding anything that contradicts you that you skipped over it aparently. This was actually my first 1v1 with Famine, and i tore him a new one. And you did break your word, "sparky" Wreakinn@Vox wrote: <blockquote> The last word is yours - there will be no words to either of you, unless either of you [I cannot control my vocabulary] trolls actually have something RELEVANT to add. Try me. </blockquote> </blockquote> Do I have to go quote the first few call and responses between you and I? Go do that and tell me who gets nasty first. Or you can keep avoiding it, because you are such a great guy, right? You'd never do that, would you?So let me get this straight...you've fought him once, and now you are qualified to say "defensive AA's ftw! brigs aren't that bad!" One AA change and you go from getting smoked by Zeebs (who is not too far off from Famine's gear) to waxing Famine. Uh, ok. Did you not have MS before? Again - what buffs did you have up? Manashield, null-mail, god knows what else you get. You rarely solo, and I do mean rarely. So tell us what group buffs you had on? How about a combat log? Answers to any of these? Please? Stop dismissing MS like it is some junk buff. That effectively gives you what, 16k??? Does every class have dispel arcane? Does it work every time? My "manashield" is an AA that I have to spend 9 AA's in just to get my pet to block 90% of damage 20% of the time. Or I can spend 16 AA's for a chance to get my pet's avoidance. Let's see, full defensive AA's = 9+16(8% parry)+16(32% thingy)+12(full 1k heal). To do that....oh wait, I can't. Not only is it too many AA's, but I'd have to sacrifice Animist's Bond, which basically would mean people could one-shot my pet by breathing on it. Then I lose all my crits, Implode, and weaken my pet as well....so that brigands can still pulverize me. But hey, I'm a house on an open plain against them! Now if we could get rid of all this pesky terrain....Rift is a joke....ok bud, puff puff pass. Downplay Apoc too? right. And then back it up with how your single target DPS cranks! My biggest single target nuke is 1k. LEET. [I cannot control my vocabulary], maybe I should just roll a warlock or an illy, or be happy that I own healers. No wonder Zeebs has one. The point of all this - I have none of this. So again - maybe I was wrong to include warlocks. Then again - maybe not, because your gigantic sample size doesn't leave me in awe, forgive me.Soooooooo. Nothing you said in your reply relates to caster vs scout PvP. Uhhhhhh, ok. </blockquote>Have you played a Warlock in PvP? t7? I don't think so, so do not even BEGIN to tell me what we can and cannot do, you have only been on the receiving end of my wand, and to be quite honest you flat out suck at playing a conjuror. I've gone 1v1 with you waiting on my group to fly in, and just like the botter mages you just stand there and nuke with your pet out, when what you should have done is plane shifted the pet and stepped out of my range while he tore me a new one. You are ranked 7th in Conj Kills on the server because there aren't even 10 T7 Conjurors on the server that actually pvp. You are ranked first in Conj deaths, and no its not because you solo because in all my nights pvping, i've run across you 2 dozen times at least, only twice ungrouped. Its because you lack the knowledge of your own class and are incapable of learning how to deal with difficult opponents. Use your [Removed for Content] mage pet, plane shift that sucker, and run your but off while the pet root/nukes you enemy to death. Run totems, there is absolutely no excuse for a brigand to get the jump on you if you are paying attention, and if he does, shame on you for letting him. You should ALWAYS be a step ahead of a scout, especially as a mage class, because you know once they close that gap 9 times out of 10 its over. As for me, brigands can dispel magic i'm told, but since i don't play one i do not know for sure. Manashield takes damage no different than your HPs would, and if you think blowing manashield at the start of a fight is smart you have absolutely no clue how it works. I get decapped with manashield up, i just lost 5k of my 7k total power pool. Add 1 or 2 more .5sec cast CAs and uh oh, im out of mana and have no more defense. What you do not understand is that EVERY class has SOME WAY of defeating ANY enemy. There is noone out there, save an assassin or ranger with a lucky high crit on their 15minute abilities, that you should be unable to beat if you simply learn how to do it and apply that knowledge every time you encounter one. I've fought every class there is, i know how to beat any one of them, and with the exceptions of being 1shotted the only time i lose a 1v1 is when I screw it up, and i realize it the second i do it. The original point i think you were trying to make in this thread is that Brigands tear clothies a new one, but throughout the entirety of this thread, it all boils down to Conjurors being the only ones that can't win vs a brig. Now i'm not sifting thru 400+ posts to find one, but i'm pretty sure you are the only conjuror that has posted here, but every other clothie has pretty much told you to learn your strength and weaknesses, and stick by what works. Regardless, you said twice that you are done talking to me, so i don't quite understand why you keep replying. You made a whiney post, i made a comment that was dead on with what you were complaining about, you started some crying about how you expected better from me, though i don't really give a crap about your opinion as you obviously don't give a crap about anyone elses unless you hold the same one, and then i flamed because all you managed to accomplish in this thread is show everyone how big of a [Removed for Content] you can be when it comes to not being able to have your cake, and eat it too. Get over it, unless you learn how to properly play your class against all types of enemies, you will never beat them. You first mistake was letting a brigand close the gap, which you can EASILY avoid by running totems and keeping range, and carrying a few potions to cure in the event that you do get stunned or rooted. He wont rip your pet a new one, especially plane shifted, but you just pvp like you wear plate and have 15k hitpoints and noone can hurt you, but when you die you cry on the boards about how so and so is overpowered rather than go to the conjuror boards and ask advice on how to beat certain classes.