2-box suggestions

[Dorlin]

<p>I have a regular group that I love playing with, but occasionally I have some free time while we wait for everyone to come online. During this time I love to 2-box quests. As credit to the game design I found many 2-box combinations that have worked well include some odd combinations, but I am never as effective at doing all but the raid content as my full group of friends. I 2-box by using KaVoom-KM which allows me to use one keyboard/mouse with two screens and two computers. I use in-game macros heavily and I use my keyboard exclusively to activate the hotbar. So I can just move the mouse from screen to screen as I hit keys on the keyboard to send spells and pets into battle. I tend to shy away from the traditional Tank/Healer combination in that I find tanks to one dimensional. I have tried the following combinations with my comments.</p><p>Dirge (45)/Defiler (44) - Lots of utility. Dogdog always dies which makes him next to worthless. Mana can be an issue on Names who must be very green to take on.</p><p>SK (34)/Necro (41) - When things go well this is a killing machine, but sometimes not enough healing power and sometimes the Master I mage pet can pull agro.</p><p>Conj (29)/Fury (29) - Can take anything but names. The Master pet is a monster when it can hold agro. Pet tanks dies usually means a dead Conj. Pet Mana is an issue and is the number one reason why it loses agro.</p><p>Swashy (19)/Mystic (19) - Very interesting combination. Mystic pulls with debuffs and tanks. Swashy deals out some sick damage from behind. Problem is with groups the Mystic can hold agro sometimes, but when the agro is split it can be hard to keep the healing focused on the one that needs it most. Also healer tanking, interrupts become a serious problem.</p><p>As one can see I'm an altaholic. I only have about an hour or two a night to play and I will group with my friends when they are on, so I have trouble making a lot of progress with my 2-box. Everything I read on the boards (I tend to be a lurker) either talk about high level duo/2-box or hypothetical based on people who do NOT 2-box but do duo. 2-box requires a little less attention than duo combinations. I have no problem with mentoring down and I do have a level 70 Assassin on my main account.</p><p>My question, well, I am looking for 2-boxers who could offer suggestions on what combination I should focus my limited free time on. It is ok to mix and match (primary/secondary) and if necessary start over or move accounts. What I am looking for is something I can pretty much continue to do quests both in and out of dungeons. I would love to be able to complete Heritage quests when they turn very green or gray. I want to be able to handle an add or two without have to be super cautious all of the time. Dieing is OK, but should not be so much that I feel like I am not making progress. I do like pet classes and scout classes the most. The key is feeling like I am making progress consistently through all levels with limited time and to be able to explore dungeons on occasion if that is where the quests take me.</p><p>Hope this also helps start a general discussion on 2-boxers and what works and do not work.</p>

[Iyemana]

<cite>Dorlin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have a regular group that I love playing with, but occasionally I have some free time while we wait for everyone to come online. During this time I love to 2-box quests. As credit to the game design I found many 2-box combinations that have worked well include some odd combinations, but I am never as effective at doing all but the raid content as my full group of friends. I 2-box by using KaVoom-KM which allows me to use one keyboard/mouse with two screens and two computers. I use in-game macros heavily and I use my keyboard exclusively to activate the hotbar. So I can just move the mouse from screen to screen as I hit keys on the keyboard to send spells and pets into battle. I tend to shy away from the traditional Tank/Healer combination in that I find tanks to one dimensional. I have tried the following combinations with my comments.</p><p>Dirge (45)/Defiler (44) - Lots of utility. Dogdog always dies which makes him next to worthless. Mana can be an issue on Names who must be very green to take on.</p><p>SK (34)/Necro (41) - When things go well this is a killing machine, but sometimes not enough healing power and sometimes the Master I mage pet can pull agro.</p><p>Conj (29)/Fury (29) - Can take anything but names. The Master pet is a monster when it can hold agro. Pet tanks dies usually means a dead Conj. Pet Mana is an issue and is the number one reason why it loses agro.</p><p>Swashy (19)/Mystic (19) - Very interesting combination. Mystic pulls with debuffs and tanks. Swashy deals out some sick damage from behind. Problem is with groups the Mystic can hold agro sometimes, but when the agro is split it can be hard to keep the healing focused on the one that needs it most. Also healer tanking, interrupts become a serious problem.</p><p>As one can see I'm an altaholic. I only have about an hour or two a night to play and I will group with my friends when they are on, so I have trouble making a lot of progress with my 2-box. Everything I read on the boards (I tend to be a lurker) either talk about high level duo/2-box or hypothetical based on people who do NOT 2-box but do duo. 2-box requires a little less attention than duo combinations. I have no problem with mentoring down and I do have a level 70 Assassin on my main account.</p><p>My question, well, I am looking for 2-boxers who could offer suggestions on what combination I should focus my limited free time on. It is ok to mix and match (primary/secondary) and if necessary start over or move accounts. What I am looking for is something I can pretty much continue to do quests both in and out of dungeons. I would love to be able to complete Heritage quests when they turn very green or gray. I want to be able to handle an add or two without have to be super cautious all of the time. Dieing is OK, but should not be so much that I feel like I am not making progress. I do like pet classes and scout classes the most. The key is feeling like I am making progress consistently through all levels with limited time and to be able to explore dungeons on occasion if that is where the quests take me.</p><p>Hope this also helps start a general discussion on 2-boxers and what works and do not work.</p></blockquote>i 2 box with a SK and a Defiler and works really good.

[Thunderthyze]

<cite>Dorlin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hope this also helps start a general discussion on 2-boxers and what works and do not work.</p></blockquote><p> Just dinnae a'right? Just dinnae!</p><p>Down the path of "boxing" lies eternal damnation.</p>

[Agaxiq]

I've tried many combinations.  Some thoughts here: Bruiser/Fury.  We can take on almost all Blue-con named and yellow con heroics.  This progression is solid throughout all tiers.  The yellow con stuff can get tricky, and an add to the fury is gonna be bad. Necro/Necro.  We can take on *some* blue-con named and blue/white heroics if they are single target. I've done quite a few other combinations, but most have something which prevents me from pursuing them further. Defiler - debuffs don't help much in a duo, very poor DPS (at least compared to a Fury).  Maybe with maxed out AA's it would help, but through the brunt of the levels he's contributing very little other than his wards. Rogue - I'm building a Brigand up now, but won't tank as well as a Bruiser will, even with Chain.  With a round shield and defensive stance the Bruiser will out-dps him and out-tank him.  Otherwise he'll be taking bigger hits than a Bruiser. Berzerker - lack of FD is the only killer, which is important to me - otherwise pair him up with a Fury, or a Battlepriest spec'ed Inquis.  Bruiser will edge him out on single-target DPS, but the zerker will hold agro better against multiple trash encounters that Furys like to unload on. Bards - useless in a duo.  They have no defensive stance, no taunts, poor dps, and won't hold agro well.  Their buffs really shine in a full group. I challenge anyone to come up with a safer, faster, and easier duo than the Bruiser/Fury.   The Berzerker would be just as effective (if not more) but loses points on the "faster" bit because of the lack of FD.  Maybe an SK, but their FD has a much higher re-use timer and I challenge them to top the Bruisers single-target DPS.  People can probably take on the same content with a Defiler, but the fights *will* last longer.  SK dps through mid-levels isn't that great, and SK's only really start to shine in T6.  Bruiser has no problems during mid-levels with DPS.  A plate tank can probably take on named better at endgame though, although I'd say it would be situational.  Bruiser can stoneskin 3 caster hits and with self-mit buffs they will have not only a great avoidance but at least average mitigation. One could make a Wizzy work with Crowd control, or a Coercer, but ultimately you'll need heals if you lack patience, and will obviously take longer. For all content: Bruiser / Fury For end-game content: Zerker / Fury SK / Fury Zerker / Inquis (Battlepriest) SK / Inquis (Battlepriest) agressiv

[Antryg Mistrose]

I've had good success with SK/Illusionist (started of as Paladin/Illusionist). Plenty of DPS, great self healing at higher levels and AA, and on really hard stuff, well the illusionist can basically solo anything mezzable, with the SK adding the odd nuke.  Very useful for getting about having a group invis.  Poet's Palace takes about 40mins. (skipping the dolls).  I'm almost out of PoA on Claymore - almost entirely duoed with these 2. You are also left with 2 classes that solo okay seperately, and are reasonably useful in endgame content. I'd suggest mixing 2 classes that you don't mind playing individually, as 2-boxing can get a bit anti-social / tedious. I found SK/Templar to run out of power and have sub-par dps.  SK/Dirge worked pretty well (both debuff and deal disease damage), but I betrayed my Dirge for guild raiding.  SK/Troubador doesn't have the the dps or crowd control of SK/Illusionist. Can't say I've really tried any other combos, but Paladin/Warlock looks to show promise

[Bozidar]

<p>Most toons solo can take out green named.  If you can't do it when boxing it's probably because you're not twinking the toons out, or losing alot of solo-effectiveness by boxing.</p><p>My 44 zerker can kill anything in RoV including the varsoon instance which includes two "named" in it.</p><p>My 29 brig can kill any and every named in SH.</p><p>38 Druid can solo green named fine.</p><p>If you're boxing you should be taking on blue-white content names.  IMO.</p>

[Shompta]

<p>Paladin + Wizard works very well for me. The paladin never loses aggro due to amends, and he can sit in his defensive stance while holding a shield and spam heals on himself... this works especially well with the right AAs. He can keep himself alive even with heroic adds. Since the paladin is mostly just spamming heals you can give full attention to having the wizard efficiently burn things down. I can take down most blue/white heroic nameds easily. Yellows are a bit tougher but I can get some of them. This combination is also very fast for killing tons of solo mobs with no worries if you are working on quests. Wizards can kill almost any solo mob in a few seconds but normally risk dieing. With a paladin there you don't have to worry anymore so you can just blow through solo quests.</p>

[Agaxiq]

<cite>Shompta wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Paladin + Wizard works very well for me. The paladin never loses aggro due to amends, and he can sit in his defensive stance while holding a shield and spam heals on himself... this works especially well with the right AAs. He can keep himself alive even with heroic adds. Since the paladin is mostly just spamming heals you can give full attention to having the wizard efficiently burn things down. I can take down most blue/white heroic nameds easily. Yellows are a bit tougher but I can get some of them. This combination is also very fast for killing tons of solo mobs with no worries if you are working on quests. Wizards can kill almost any solo mob in a few seconds but normally risk dieing. With a paladin there you don't have to worry anymore so you can just blow through solo quests.</p></blockquote> I tried this myself but gave up because the pally would get interrupted healing himself all the time on heroics, and would eventually die - even with a maxed focus.  Are you rooting the mob and jousting back to heal? agressiv

[Dorlin]

<p>Thanks for the great replies!!!</p><p> I have found that my problem with SK and using a Mystic or Inquister as a battlecleric is the interrupts really hurt as you get higher. Maybe at higher levels or when only doing low greens the interrupts would not matter, but if have found the middle frustrating with the interupts.</p><p> I have a monk/illusionist I use for my group, but I am not allowed to out level the group. I find the problem with any mezer is that requires a lot of attention to detail to get it right and I just don't have the temperment for crowd control. I gave up on a mid-level coercer for that reason.</p><p> I agree with you on the power of a bruiser especially with additional self heal which seem to always be up as compared to a Monk. Also I did use a couple times the feign death and use my illusionist to finish off the mob for those super close battles. Though how do you handle feign death with the fury? Do you ust feign death when the fury dies from and add and then resurrect the fury?</p><p> I wonder what you think about the fury with conj. I have found the conj tank pet can be very effective it is just harder to control agro since the pet's taunt is not directly controlled.</p>

[mellowknees72]

<p>I two-boxed for a long time (taking a break from it now, which has been fun).  The combo that I found that works best for me is a Monk and a Fury.  The monk has great DPS and avoidance, and the fury's heal style doesn't require that you pay alot of attention to it (like reactive heals and wards).  The fury's DPS boosting spells (such as the Fae Flames line) work very well with the Monk's similar abilities.</p><p>I haven't two boxed this combo, but my husband and I have been duo-ing with a Fury (the second one I've made...I'm hooked!) and a Berserker. We've managed to survive lots of encounters that other combinations of characters we've tried would never have made it even halfway through.</p><p>Personally, with two-boxing, I've found that unless you have a character who can manage aggro somehow, it can be VERY challenging.  I started with a ranger/mystic combo and pitched that by the time those characters had reached about level 22.  It was too difficult to manage aggro and the wards required too much attention (to when they drop).  I've boxed my conjurer with my husband's templar as well...that worked out okay, but it's definitely not my favorite combo...mostly I ended up just dragging the templar around as he absorbed experience...LOL.</p>

[Bozidar]

Why not box a Warden and a Fury?  Both can take a hit, aggro doesn't matter much.. both can heal.  Druid overlap problems?  Fury and Inquis?  Smoke and a Pancake?  Crepe and a blunt?

[Tomanak]

Agaxiq@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>I've tried many combinations.  Some thoughts here: Bruiser/Fury.  We can take on almost all Blue-con named and yellow con heroics.  This progression is solid throughout all tiers.  The yellow con stuff can get tricky, and an add to the fury is gonna be bad. For all content: <b>Bruiser / Fury </b> </blockquote><p> This is what I ran for a while and agree it is an excellent combo. I really wanted evac though so I have since betrayed the fury to warden. Slightly lower DPS, but more heals, plus more melee orientated buffs so it all balanced out. Currently have this duo at 51/50 and am planning on taking them all the way to 70. </p><p>Brigand/Inquisitor - Decent duo, but I made this one before I tried the Bruiser. Brigand is decent, but has more trouble holding aggro than the bruiser and you have to watch the heals. (at 38/37 and on the shelf)</p><p>Guardian/Warlock - IMO a good duo. Guardian has the abilty to stand and take a pounding plus has excellent multiple target aggro management skills. Warlock makes up for Guardians lower DPS with excellent multiple target DPS. May try a wizzy some day, but like this combo. Only real downside is that you better kill quick as neither toon has any heals at all and if the warlock gets aggro its a 1-2shot kill. (at 63/70 and used very rarely)</p><p>Personally I have fallen in love with the Bruiser. Good DPS and good tanking skills. Spike damage can be a bit of an issue (when he takes a hit, he takes a HIT) but if you can time your heals it works out ok. Can duo blue ^^^ names with them and up to orange ^s. Yellow ^^^s in my experience just seem to hit too hard. Currently mulling over what my next duo will be, but will probabaly focus on 1 duo at a time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Ruben]

<p>My highest 2 box is a Monk/Warden. They are 64 atm and I have been extremely happy with them. Not much they cant do as far as heroics and named mobs go.</p>

[hoppopo]

<p>Zerker/Illusinist here both 70 add in my wife templar and we can rock the house</p><p> 38 monk/mystic/wizzie trio yellow con named go poof (twinked)</p><p>Any thoughts to go with my zerker for raiding. Zerker is mt. I was thinking wizzie or fury</p>

[Agaxiq]

<cite>Dorlin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thanks for the great replies!!!</p><p> I agree with you on the power of a bruiser especially with additional self heal which seem to always be up as compared to a Monk. Also I did use a couple times the feign death and use my illusionist to finish off the mob for those super close battles. Though how do you handle feign death with the fury? Do you ust feign death when the fury dies from and add and then resurrect the fury?</p><p> I wonder what you think about the fury with conj. I have found the conj tank pet can be very effective it is just harder to control agro since the pet's taunt is not directly controlled.</p></blockquote> FD is great for a number of situations with a Brawler. 1) Questing, like Peacock lines.  Its easy to move through large hordes of see-invis mobs (where the Fury's Group Invis wouldn't work, like in Living Tombs) - you can just train until where you need to go and then FD.  Assuming nobody agro'ed the fury on the way (and most of time, they don't) - you'll be ok. 2) Avoiding a complete wipe.  You can always feather-rez the fury later. 3) Pulling - this is my favorite use.  With high end dungeons, most mobs are social (i.e. pull one, the whole room follows).  Typically you'd have to clear the trash to get to a named.  Well, with FD - just pull the named with the bruiser, and have the Fury slap on a small DoT.  FD the bruiser, and the trash will reset, and you can continue fighting the named.  Yes, the fury will get agro briefly, but just hit the "X" key to stand back up instantly after you FD and taunt.  Works like a charm.  yes, you'll probably wipe if the FD fails, but generally it doesnt. Evac is nice but having the druid portals really make up for it.  I can either group-invis my way back if I wipe or just train.  Evac only really saves you from death, which is much more meaningless now.  The Monk group FD would be nice as well, but I think its a pretty long recast timer and you dont get it until 58.  Group-invis > Evac, IMO. Problem with tank pets on a summoner is that their mitigation blows.  They fall much faster than even a bruiser, even though they have many more hitpoints.  That and the fact that they won't hold agro to a nuking Fury, and there is no rescue - just no reason to pick them.  The Summoner and Fury will spend half their time healing the pet you'll just lose out on all of the DPS that a summoner/fury combo could offer if they aren't tanking. agressiv

[Agaxiq]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why not box a Warden and a Fury?  Both can take a hit, aggro doesn't matter much.. both can heal.  Druid overlap problems?  Fury and Inquis?  Smoke and a Pancake?  Crepe and a blunt?</blockquote> You'd completely lose out on one of your core lines of HoT's - and you'll be doing crowd control all the time.  Fury will be tanking all the time will basically be really inefficient.  Stacking it with another healer wouldn't help much, as the Fury will still tank due to its DPS output.  Maybe if you held back the Fury, the Inquis could go Battlepriest mode, but again, you'll be dealing with agro control all the time - just not effective. Some other creative combos, if you want a challenge and dont necessarily need to take on really tough heroics: <b>Bruiser / Coercer</b>.  Grab an M1 charm and charm a caster mob - great combo.  The self-heal the bruiser has should be more than enough.  Just time the bruiser's knockdowns with the Coercer's stuns and the mob will be stunned most of the fight.  The Self-heal should take care of the rest.  The DPS buffs the Coercer has as well as the hate gain are awesome. <b>Brigand / Defiler.  </b>The brigand does have a taunt, and will hold agro very well over a Defiler. <b>Paladin / Wizard.  </b>Someone else commented on this as well.   Best combo for solo mobs.  I thought heroics were a bit too tough, but maybe I was unlucky.  Paladin can self heal and cast amends on the Wizard - Wizard can unload.  If you wanted, sub out the Wizard with a Warlock. <b>Illusionist / Illusionist.  </b>With two dependable pets - the mob will be stifled most of the fight.  Challenge is that the pets will stifle when they feel like it, so it can be challenging to work out a pattern.  But definitely takes the most skill out of any of these combos, IMO <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> agressiv

[Dorlin]

<p>Ok. I currently have a Monk/Fury. With all of this dicussion, I am thinking about betraying to a Bruiser/Warden.</p><p>+ Monk versus a Bruiser: Monk has group feign, but the Bruiser has a better self heal more stuns and cheaper masters.</p><p>+ Fury versus a Warden: I love the idea of having 40+ SoW on both characters. The question is this worth giving up group invis when it was mentioned that there are places where invis can not be used and INVIS totem are so darn cheap.</p><p> So help me decide on which two these two should be.</p><p>1. Monk/Fury</p><p>2. Bruiser/Fury</p><p>3. Bruiser/Warden</p><p>4. Monk/Warden</p><p> I have 1 and I'm leaning to 3. Any thoughts or ideas? or does it really matter <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Shompta]

Agaxiq@Unrest wrote: <blockquote><cite>Shompta wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Paladin + Wizard works very well for me. The paladin never loses aggro due to amends, and he can sit in his defensive stance while holding a shield and spam heals on himself... this works especially well with the right AAs. He can keep himself alive even with heroic adds. Since the paladin is mostly just spamming heals you can give full attention to having the wizard efficiently burn things down. I can take down most blue/white heroic nameds easily. Yellows are a bit tougher but I can get some of them. This combination is also very fast for killing tons of solo mobs with no worries if you are working on quests. Wizards can kill almost any solo mob in a few seconds but normally risk dieing. With a paladin there you don't have to worry anymore so you can just blow through solo quests.</p></blockquote> I tried this myself but gave up because the pally would get interrupted healing himself all the time on heroics, and would eventually die - even with a maxed focus.  Are you rooting the mob and jousting back to heal? agressiv </blockquote><p>Well it can get a little tough sometimes. </p><p>If your fighting a grouped encounter the wizard will usually kill it before the paladin dies even if you got interupted the whole time.</p><p> If your fighting a tough single target you can use one of the paladin's stun/knockdown abilities and then put a heal in queue afterwords. If your wizard is high enough level you can also cast spells with stuns to give your paladin a window to heal.</p><p>The only real problem is with blue/white/yellow heroic adds... Then you have to try to root and joust and stuff like that... which yes is a pain... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Green heroic adds don't give any trouble though. </p>

[Agaxiq]

<cite>Dorlin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok. I currently have a Monk/Fury. With all of this dicussion, I am thinking about betraying to a Bruiser/Warden.</p><p>+ Monk versus a Bruiser: Monk has group feign, but the Bruiser has a better self heal more stuns and cheaper masters.</p><p>+ Fury versus a Warden: I love the idea of having 40+ SoW on both characters. The question is this worth giving up group invis when it was mentioned that there are places where invis can not be used and INVIS totem are so darn cheap.</p><p> So help me decide on which two these two should be.</p><p>1. Monk/Fury</p><p>2. Bruiser/Fury</p><p>3. Bruiser/Warden</p><p>4. Monk/Warden</p><p> I have 1 and I'm leaning to 3. Any thoughts or ideas? or does it really matter <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> The quested 40% carpet is good enough for me, and a 20% SoW in a dungeon is also decent enough for me.  Pop on Jboots and you'll be at 30%.  Group invis is very useful, in most places, but not in some.  I think putting AA points on a speed enhancer is, well, wasteful.  I know some like it but if I did it I would respec once I got a 40% mount and drop those AA's. Also, you'll lose a decent amount of DPS switching to a warden, but you'll get a few better heals.  However, the only times my fury heals more than once or twice in a fight are: 1) When my self-heal is down 2) When we get adds 3) Fighting tough heroics or named Every day trash, the healing isn't used, and I can use Energy Vortex for some prime nukeage.   Personally I dont think the Warden EoF tree is well suited to a duo unless you go the melee route, and even then Fury has one as well.  If my Fury goes OOP I just slap on Animal Form and melee for about 10 seconds and my power is back to like 60%. Of course it helps having 99 AA's on my fury -  (40% away from 100 at level 69)  Obviously people swear by their wardens, but to me they are more useful with a full group.  Also, I think the Fury's Agitate line is much better than the Warden's Primitive Instinct line - but thats just my opinion. agressiv

[x82nd77]

<p>Been doing a brigand/inqs myself. Works well with the brigand being the Mit scout so the reactive heals keep me standing pretty well. The Inq buffs haste and dps so I turn into a potient killing machine.  </p><p>I have been debating about raising a dirge and letting him AF me for my brigand and SK. I know I will never get the full potential out of him doing that and dirges are more then just buff bots... but there are times I feel lazy and just want to focus on one toon or want to be lazy on my SK but still enjoy tracking (and group invis though AAs). Has anyone done this with a bard and has it been worth the effort for you?</p>

[Lornick]

Agaxiq@Unrest wrote: <blockquote> Berzerker - <b>lack of FD is the only killer</b>, which is important to me - otherwise pair him up with a Fury, or a Battlepriest spec'ed Inquis.  Bruiser will edge him out on single-target DPS, but the zerker will hold agro better against multiple trash encounters that Furys like to unload on. <b>Bards - useless in a duo</b>.  They have no defensive stance, no taunts, poor dps, and won't hold agro well.  Their buffs really shine in a full group. I challenge anyone to come up with a safer, faster, and easier duo than the Bruiser/Fury.   The Berzerker would be just as effective (if not more) but loses points on the "faster" bit because of the lack of FD.  </blockquote><p>You can always make a berserker take the tinkering skill and then he can FD no prob.  Longer recast then a bruiser, but FD nonetheless.  FD is nice for training around zones, but it is hardly necessary.  A berserker with fury can group invis past most junk which is just about as fast.</p><p>I would also like to respectfully disagree with your "Bards - useless in a duo" comment.  Perhaps not "optimal", but certainly not "useless".  I've two boxed alot of content with my dirge and fury.  I did the cloak of flames quest on my own for instance.</p>

[Agaxiq]

<cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would also like to respectfully disagree with your "Bards - useless in a duo" comment.  Perhaps not "optimal", but certainly not "useless".  I've two boxed alot of content with my dirge and fury.  I did the cloak of flames quest on my own for instance.</p></blockquote> Yeah, but the cloak of flames is endgame material.  I would assume by the time you hit 70 any bard will be great to duo with. However, the road is very bumpy, especially in the early levels (< 35).  Yes, useless was a bit too harsh.  And I agree that "not optimal" is much better <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> agressiv

[Tomanak]

Agaxiq@Unrest wrote: <blockquote><b></b> Obviously people swear by their wardens, but to me they are more useful with a full group.  Also, I think the Fury's Agitate line is much better than the Warden's Primitive Instinct line - but thats just my opinion. agressiv </blockquote><p> I kind of agree with Agressiv here, Furies are excellent toons and IMO have a better AA line. I ran bruiser/fury from 1/1 to 40/40. Then betrayed the Fury for warden as I mentioned earlier. A definite contributing factor to my betraying was the fact that our guild currently has a number of furies and we were light on wardens. </p><p>Invis totems are cheap and if you have access to guild woodworkers they are free. Evac totems are not. IIRC there is one tinkered item that gives evac and one quested item. Id rather have evac and buy/use cheap totems.</p><p>A lot of people say death is cheap..to me its not. Everytime I die/wipe it ticks me off..so evac is nice to have. It also comes in handy when I want to go somewhere a portal wont take me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Invis? who needs invis...I have FD <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>DPS loss, while there, is negligable. The Bruiser kills so fast most of the time the healers DPS is gravy. </p><p>I loved my Bruiser/Fury combo for the first 40 levels and really debated switching. I agree the fury is a killer toon, they are also a dime a dozen and their Masters/Adept IIIs cost an arm and a leg as demand is so high. IIRC we have 4 or 5 high level furies and 1 high level warden (and he is an alt at that). So while Im not gainsaying the value of the Bruiser/Fury combo, I have no complaints since the change over. </p>