Crafting in Kelethin is too inconvenient!

[Chirpaa]

<p>It is.. The crafting terrace in Kelethin is an incredibly inconvenient distance from the bank as compared to crafting in Qeynos or Freeport.</p><p>I consider quick and easy access to three things as important for crafting convenience:</p><ol><li>The craft work table (be it loom, wood working bench, or what not)</li><li>The broker, and</li><li>The bank</li></ol><p>In Kelithin, it's a darn long walk from the bank to the craft area and back.  It takes me over 1 minute (without speed enchancement) to do the trip, one way.  That's 2 minutes round trip.  2 minutes might seem like a small number, but I craft alot.  I calculated that I was spending approximately 45 minutes a week just doing this run...  Which comes out to 39 HOURS of wasted time in a year, or 2340 combines at my average rate of crafting...</p><p>Compare that to the Willow Wood (my personal favorite place to craft) where the trip from bank to work table takes me 12 seconds..  I get a day of my life back here every year, as compared to Kelithin.</p><p>The fix is simple, put a !#$% bridge between the terrace where the Inn/Crafting area is and the one where the tinker/transmuter trainer are.   A bridge here is a no brainer anyway.  Stand down one terrace and look up toward these two and you'll see they are exactly the same height, and already so close that a good jumper in real life would be able to jump the distance.  </p><p>In truth, any city planner with any brains would have put a bridge here in the first place...it is completely unrealistic that there is no bridge here, as it makes absolutely sense and would be incredibly easy.    I'd donate the time and resources to build the bridge myself if the game allowed player crafters to improve on the world in that way.  Unfortunately they don't.</p><p>Seriously, whoever was the designer for EOF did a beautiful job, but the layout of Kelethin actually makes no sense.  In many cases the way they did bridges and ramps connecting terraces would have been MORE time consuming and taken MORE resources than what is both the most obvious and the most convenient layout.   Fae may be flighty, but their queen seems at least somewhat level-headed.  I'm really suprised she let a nincompoop be in charge of city planning.</p><p>Until such time as the Fae get a clue, I've moved all of my crafters except my tailor to Qeynos.  (Tailoring is one craft that's not inconvenient in Kelethin, as there is a loom one terrace away from the bank, and a broker is on this terrace as well).</p>

[Jenarie]

I liked crafting in Kelethin although I agree the bank thing was irritating.  I moved to Qeynos because there are no windows.  Seems silly but I couldn't stand living in the DARK all the time.  I'm a carpenter and I stuffed a LOT of lights in my acorn and still couldn't stand it. Wtb bridge and windows for kelethin!

[Chirpaa]

<p>Ughh, i agree, windowless acorns are horrible too!!  You'd think creatures associated with nature would want to SEE it.  Anyone who tries to say "but they care too much about the tree to carve a window in the acorn" is gonna get socked!  They carved out entire freaking HOMES and carved out DOORS so don't tell me they wouldn't carve out windows too!!</p><p> LOL, seriously though.. I let my rent in Kelethin lapse a long time ago. I only keep a house for my toon that does all my broker selling, and I moved that to Qeynos after doing a study on sales in Kelethin vs. Qeynos.  Qeynos won, at least for me, by a HUGE margin.  Personally, I think this is the case because <b>MOST</b> people agree that no windows and pain in the butt city layout make Kelethin not worth living in.. just like us.</p><p>Smart devs would address this just because it makes them look bad that things weren't done well in the first place in this area.  If I were the person who was responsible for Kelethin design, I'd work over time without pay to fix my mistakes, but that's just me.  </p>

[sah]

TheresaN wrote: <blockquote><p>In Kelithin, it's a darn long walk from the bank to the craft area and back.  It takes me over 1 minute (without speed enchancement) to do the trip, one way.  That's 2 minutes round trip.  2 minutes might seem like a small number, but I craft alot.  I calculated that I was spending approximately 45 minutes a week just doing this run...  Which comes out to 39 HOURS of wasted time in a year, or 2340 combines at my average rate of crafting...</p><p>Compare that to the Willow Wood (my personal favorite place to craft) where the trip from bank to work table takes me 12 seconds..  I get a day of my life back here every year, as compared to Kelithin.</p><p>The fix is simple, put a !#$% bridge between the terrace where the Inn/Crafting area is and the one where the tinker/transmuter trainer are.   A bridge here is a no brainer anyway.  Stand down one terrace and look up toward these two and you'll see they are exactly the same height, and already so close that a good jumper in real life would be able to jump the distance.  </p></blockquote><p> It might just be that my computer sucks, but for me running from the crafting area to the bank and back in kelethin is usually much faster than zoning out to willow wood and zoning back into the crafting instance...</p><p>and if the two areas are so close that a good jumper can jump the distance then anyone who's either a fae or wearing gnomish spring boots could jump the distance...and since the fae designed the city, if they are able to make the jump in both directions then a bridge would be pointless... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Chirpaa]

<cite>sahet wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> It might just be that my computer sucks, but for me running from the crafting area to the bank and back in kelethin is usually much faster than zoning out to willow wood and zoning back into the crafting instance...</p><p>and if the two areas are so close that a good jumper can jump the distance then anyone who's either a fae or wearing gnomish spring boots could jump the distance...and since the fae designed the city, if they are able to make the jump in both directions then a bridge would be pointless... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p> It's your computer, zone load screen for me to a TSI or one of the little 'hub' communities is under 5 seconds.</p><p> And, unfortunately, jumping in EQ2 isn't designed realistically.  Despite the fact that in the real world a good jumper could jump the distance, in EQ2 no one is a very good jumper.  Ergo, they'd build a bridge.</p><p>It's a simple point of fact that a designer for a game that doesn't allow the players to alter the environment in any way SHOULD design those areas where the players would actually have some influence in a way that the players themselves would.  In other words, the places where players live and work should be designed with the aesthetics and convenience view that the players would have.    </p><p>It's fine and dandy for wilderness and dungeons to have different design theories, but places like Qeynos, Kelethin, Freeport should have the perspective of a player in their design.   This isn't to say everything should be "perfect" .. cause that's not how things work, realisitically.  But something as simple as "there should be a bridge here" or "this place should have windows" is something that we COULD address in a matter of days and it is only the limitation of the game engine (which doesn't allow us to do such things) that keeps it from happening.  </p><p>Designers in these games who completely fail to think this way are working under a flawed design theory and breaking the immersive feeling of their game world, because even players willing to suspend their disbelief on just about anything, will become exasperated by those things that are obvoiusly just "poor design" or ... even worse ... "intentional time sinks" on the part of the designer.</p><p>I'm one of those people that likes travel time in the game world. I don't want a bell or other quick method to get between Kelethin and the BBM docks, for example, as I think it makes sense within the framework of the game world.  I am MORE than willing to spend more time on things when they are consistent within the world itself.    </p><p>The absence of a bridge where I believe there should be one, on the other hand, makes no sense.   Nor does windowless acorns.</p>

[Zarevil]

Personally having the fuel and books on a merchant right next to the crafting device and not having to zone to get to the bank are huge.  Heck, even with my sage I can browse the broker, buy new books as I level and get fuel without having to move in Kelethin.  Since I typically grab everything I plan on crafting in one trip to the bank I know I am less impacted by this than others. -Z

[Rijacki]

<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It is.. The crafting terrace in Kelethin is an incredibly inconvenient distance from the bank as compared to crafting in Qeynos or Freeport.</p><p>I consider quick and easy access to three things as important for crafting convenience:</p><ol><li>The craft work table (be it loom, wood working bench, or what not)</li><li>The broker, and</li><li>The bank</li></ol><p>In Kelithin, it's a darn long walk from the bank to the craft area and back.  </p></blockquote>You do realise there are crafting stations (all but sawhorses and stoves, I think) either on the same platform as the bank, or one platform away?  You mentioned knowing about the sewing ones, but I don't think you know about the others. On the same platform with the broker are sage tables as well.  On the same platform as the bank (up on the connected one) is alchemy and jewelcraft.  One ramp up from the bank, in the same acorn as the mendor are forges. If you like crafting in a different place, craft there.  Nothing stops you.  They don't need to completely redesign Kelethin for your convenience. I like crafting in Kelethin, with my fae or even with Rijacki if she happens to be there (and is doing non-rare stuff.. she has her rare components in her vault).  I also like crafting in my manor even though it's in South Qeynos (no bank) and I have to leave the house to buy fuel or anything from the broker.

[DngrMou]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote> I like crafting in Kelethin, with my fae or even with Rijacki if she happens to be there (and is doing non-rare stuff.. she has her rare components in her vault).  I also like crafting in my manor even though it's in South Qeynos (no bank) and I have to leave the house to buy fuel or anything from the broker. </blockquote> I had an alt purchase a basic room in WW.  I have all the crafting stations there, (or most of them), and with all my components in my own house vault, I have everything I need right at my finger tips.  Mailbox in room, bank seconds away, fuel vendor just around the corner, along with the broker. 

[Chirpaa]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>You do realise there are crafting stations (all but sawhorses and stoves, I think) either on the same platform as the bank, or one platform away?  You mentioned knowing about the sewing ones, but I don't think you know about the others. On the same platform with the broker are sage tables as well.  On the same platform as the bank (up on the connected one) is alchemy and jewelcraft.  One ramp up from the bank, in the same acorn as the mendor are forges. If you like crafting in a different place, craft there.  Nothing stops you.  They don't need to completely redesign Kelethin for your convenience. I like crafting in Kelethin, with my fae or even with Rijacki if she happens to be there (and is doing non-rare stuff.. she has her rare components in her vault).  I also like crafting in my manor even though it's in South Qeynos (no bank) and I have to leave the house to buy fuel or anything from the broker. </blockquote><p> Hehe, well.. you see, yes I knew about the others.  It's just that I only had two Kelethin based crafters.  One a tailor .. and she still lives there.  The other a woodworker.  So yep, it's the woodworker that had to do a TON of running.  ugh!</p><p>BTW, I really do think there's a bridge missing where there should be one.  That being said, I obviously exaggerated my point immensely.  I have fun writing so sometimes I go over the top.  </p><p>I actually don't consider it totally bad design.  After all, the Kelethin we interact with is FAR smaller than the real Kelethin would have to be.  I consider it a scaled down representation of what the real tree city would have to be like, for the sake of player convenience.  If Kelethin, Qeynos, Freeport were all completely realistically designed, they'd be so big it would be a real pain to get around in them and get much accomplished.    Pretty much the same as NPC's.  The NPC"s we interact with are obviously not the only other people living in Norath, they are archtypes which represent the 100's of little folk that would be performing not just their specific tasks, but all the support tasks for them, etc.   Cause again.. if they filled the game world with all the farmers, porters, sewer cleaners, etc. etc. etc. etc. that the world would really need.. it'd be quite an annoyance for players.   </p><p>So there you have it.. still want my bridge, but I don't really expect it to happen. *grin*</p><p>I moved my woodworker to Willow wood yesterday, problem solved. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Kahna]

I find it far more convient to simply store all my crafting raws on my broker.  I have 3 slots avalible to me on the broker, but I only really use one of them to sell stuff.  The other 2 60 slot boxes I use to store all my raws.  It's cake to check on raw prices since all I have to do is double click the raw I'm running low on.  I buy when raws are cheap then just store them on my broker.  I never put the raws up for sale so they all just sit there, neatly organized and stacked.  There's no sorting through my bank or wondering what that little pile of white dust is.   I pull some out when I need to craft.  I suppose that since I only craft for myself (tinkerer) that this method works for me. 

[Rijacki]

<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote>BTW, I really do think there's a bridge missing where there should be one.  That being said, I obviously exaggerated my point immensely.  I have fun writing so sometimes I go over the top. </blockquote>You never saw the EQ1 Kelethin then. *nod*

[Chirpaa]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>You never saw the EQ1 Kelethin then. *nod* </blockquote> Ugh, i absolutely HATED the EQ1 Kelethin.  On my server it was auction central and a haven for begging noobs to boot, so not only was it confusing to navigate because of it's design, it was a lag festival.   I avoided the place like the plague.

[Meio]

Sometimes I really don't understand the devs. There has been actually some very good reasons to NOT remove the crafting instances in Qeynos and Freeport, but they refused to make crafting instances availlable in Kelethin. I mean the same reasons to keep the instances in Qeynos and Freeport are also there in Kelthin so I wonder why they didn't make any there.

[Rijacki]

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes I really don't understand the devs. There has been actually some very good reasons to NOT remove the crafting instances in Qeynos and Freeport, but they refused to make crafting instances availlable in Kelethin. I mean the same reasons to keep the instances in Qeynos and Freeport are also there in Kelthin so I wonder why they didn't make any there. </blockquote> Because they wanted to move crafting out of those instances in Qeynos and Freeport and never designed instances for Kelethin.  The only reason they were convinced in Q & F was because the test was overloaded intentionally by players wanting to show it at its worst.  Kelethin was designed from the beginning to deal more gracefully with lag than Q or F. BTW, it really does matter a lot on your computer and graphics settings.  On AB with my graphics set to one above balanced, I don't have any of the lag issues in Kelethin, even crafting in Kelethin with the building full, that others seem to have. 

[UlteriorModem]

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes I really don't understand the devs. There has been actually some very good reasons to NOT remove the crafting instances in Qeynos and Freeport, but they refused to make crafting instances availlable in Kelethin. I mean the same reasons to keep the instances in Qeynos and Freeport are also there in Kelthin so I wonder why they didn't make any there. </blockquote><p> Answers pretty simple really. If I understand it Quey anf Freep existed before crafting became a part of the game. Instances were an easy way to introduce them to the existing content.</p><p>Kelethan did not have that problem when it was designed and the crafting stations were introduced in a more "natural" way.</p><p>My charecter crafts quite a bit in Kelethan and its really not that big a deal. It just takes a little planning and forethought so you only have to make the occassional trip to the bank.</p><p>After you forget those roots (again) and have to run back to the bank a few times you learn fast to make sure you have everything you need and plan ahead.</p>

[Chirpaa]

<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p> Answers pretty simple really. If I understand it Quey anf Freep existed before crafting became a part of the game. Instances were an easy way to introduce them to the existing content.</p><p>Kelethan did not have that problem when it was designed and the crafting stations were introduced in a more "natural" way.</p></blockquote><p>You mean in beta, I assume? Crafting was in EQ2 from release, so you must mean beta?</p><blockquote><p>My charecter crafts quite a bit in Kelethan and its really not that big a deal. It just takes a little planning and forethought so you only have to make the occassional trip to the bank.</p><p>After you forget those roots (again) and have to run back to the bank a few times you learn fast to make sure you have everything you need and plan ahead.</p></blockquote><p>Some of us are slow learners!!!</p><p>LOL, it's emberassing for me to admit.. but i forget things ALL the time.  One example:</p><p>- I grab my ingredients for what I plan to make out of the bank and run all the way to craft. </p><p>- I make the bows I was planning to make, and realize, "OH darnit! Forgot the material for imbueing!"</p><p>- Run back to bank and grab glimmering stones</p><p>- Run back to the trade building and finish my bows by imbueing them.  </p><p>- Then I go to make my next items (I think it was totems) and realize, "OH darnit! I need leather for these." (Very few recipes I make regularly require leather, I tend to forget to bring it often)</p><p>- Run back to bank, grab pelts.</p><p>- Run back to tradeskill area and finish up.</p><p>- Run back to bank and drop goods in guild bank for delivery to Qeynos, where <b>all</b> the people I was crafting for are.</p><p>... Yes, I'm a knucklehead in that I forget things more than I probably should.  But that, combined with the fact that everyone I ever end up crafting for is in Qeynos anyway.. I moved.</p>

[Meio]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes I really don't understand the devs. There has been actually some very good reasons to NOT remove the crafting instances in Qeynos and Freeport, but they refused to make crafting instances availlable in Kelethin. I mean the same reasons to keep the instances in Qeynos and Freeport are also there in Kelthin so I wonder why they didn't make any there. </blockquote> Because they wanted to move crafting out of those instances in Qeynos and Freeport and never designed instances for Kelethin.  The only reason they were convinced in Q & F was because the test was overloaded intentionally by players wanting to show it at its worst.  Kelethin was designed from the beginning to deal more gracefully with lag than Q or F. BTW, it really does matter a lot on your computer and graphics settings.  On AB with my graphics set to one above balanced, I don't have any of the lag issues in Kelethin, even crafting in Kelethin with the building full, that others seem to have.  </blockquote>On splitpaw I have lag like hell when running around in Kelethin. Even with settings so low, like when I raided with no problems. The more players in a zone the higher the chance for lag. I never had any problem in a crafting instance. What is the benefit for not crafting in a instance ? I mean moving all crafting stations out, did prolly take some dev time. I prefered to have stuff fixed then to mess around with a working system. I mean the only thing I would liked to have was a bank inside the instance and that the recipie vendor is moved back inside the instance. I really wonder who had the great idea to move them out <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I guess if devs would craft more and adventure less, some stuff would have been implemented differently.

[SilkenKidden]

<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It is.. The crafting terrace in Kelethin is an incredibly inconvenient distance from the bank as compared to crafting in Qeynos or Freeport.</p><p>I consider quick and easy access to three things as important for crafting convenience:</p><ol><li>The craft work table (be it loom, wood working bench, or what not)</li><li>The broker, and</li><li>The bank</li></ol><p>In Kelithin, it's a darn long walk from the bank to the craft area and back.  It takes me over 1 minute (without speed enchancement) to do the trip, one way.  That's 2 minutes round trip.  2 minutes might seem like a small number, but I craft alot.  I calculated that I was spending approximately 45 minutes a week just doing this run...  Which comes out to 39 HOURS of wasted time in a year, or 2340 combines at my average rate of crafting...</p><p>Compare that to the Willow Wood (my personal favorite place to craft) where the trip from bank to work table takes me 12 seconds..  I get a day of my life back here every year, as compared to Kelithin.</p><p>The fix is simple, put a !#$% bridge between the terrace where the Inn/Crafting area is and the one where the tinker/transmuter trainer are.   A bridge here is a no brainer anyway.  Stand down one terrace and look up toward these two and you'll see they are exactly the same height, and already so close that a good jumper in real life would be able to jump the distance.  </p><p>In truth, any city planner with any brains would have put a bridge here in the first place...it is completely unrealistic that there is no bridge here, as it makes absolutely sense and would be incredibly easy.    I'd donate the time and resources to build the bridge myself if the game allowed player crafters to improve on the world in that way.  Unfortunately they don't.</p><p>Seriously, whoever was the designer for EOF did a beautiful job, but the layout of Kelethin actually makes no sense.  In many cases the way they did bridges and ramps connecting terraces would have been MORE time consuming and taken MORE resources than what is both the most obvious and the most convenient layout.   Fae may be flighty, but their queen seems at least somewhat level-headed.  I'm really suprised she let a nincompoop be in charge of city planning.</p><p>Until such time as the Fae get a clue, I've moved all of my crafters except my tailor to Qeynos.  (Tailoring is one craft that's not inconvenient in Kelethin, as there is a loom one terrace away from the bank, and a broker is on this terrace as well).</p></blockquote>Try the tinkered stilts. You can jump an incredible distance with them.  Level 12 tinker recipe. 

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>You never saw the EQ1 Kelethin then. *nod* </blockquote>Heh.. I haven't even seen EQ2 Kelethin yet. XD Well, I did briefly on Test server trying out a fae. I got so frustrated getting around in that city that I counted my lucky stars that I preferred the evil races. And, of course the convenience of having everything I need in Down Under of Neriak with absolutely no zoning necessary.Edit: Holy Necro'd Threads, Batman! (My bad) <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tsunai]

As Spyderbite mentioned, this is over a year old dead ressurrection. Please remember to check the post dates of a thread before posting to it (especially when wanting to reply to posts found through the search since the search sometimes has issues pulling up very old posts for match results). We don't want Necromancy to bleed over to the boards from the game. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />