DPS guardian

[DynamicPerforman]

I'm working on leveling up a Fae guardian to dps.  My intent is to make a guardian that can out dps my monk. Which should be too hard, since my monk is tank speced and only pulls 1.1k dps in raids, 900 tops in defensive stance.  <ul><li>My question is: What AA's should I get?  The Guardian tree is fairly straightforward for dps, but the Warrior one confuses me.  I will not be taking any damage, so riposte will be useless to me.</li></ul>

[Jakub]

Well, for sure you are going to want to go with a line that gives you a good weapon proc like STR with the Axe or Int with the Sword. Now that I think about it, what about Going down Str to get the axe ability and the critical damage boost, then down INT for the sword ability and the dps mod. The ending AA might be good for using CA's.

[Snorm]

<p>Why in god's name are you making a guardian to DPS?</p><p> Snorm -- 70 Guard</p>

[danmuntz]

I have to ask the same question.  Why? If you want to DPS, roll a DPS class.  There's fighers out there that do great DPS. Guards are for tanking the best of the best - why roll one for DPS purposes?

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>Y'know a while back it would have been true that Guards make a poor choice as a DPS class. But with EoF AAs, and some gradual tweaks, that's no longer the case to such an extent.</p><p>I mean, of course the pure DPS classes will outparse you, but if you're willing to sacrifice some tanking ability you can put out some respectable numbers - and you'll always be a better tank than a pure DPS class.</p><p>First off AA spec is quite easy. You want Str 4 4 8 Sta 4 4 8 Int 4 4 8, with 1 point left over in anything you want really (maybe acceleration strike if you really want the most DPS possible). In EoF if you want to do raid DPS purely, then I'd consider taking stability + slaughtering over stalwarting + slaughtering, because the AE immunity from stability, even though usually self-only, means you can spend more time up close with mobs with big AEs.</p><p>The harder part is you need a weapon that suits your high crit % and self haste. Many T7 fabled 1H weapons have a 1.6 delay. This is really too fast to benefit from the big crit (longer delay = larger damage range = more benefit from crits) %, and you can easily be hasted such that CAs start interfering with autoattack DPS. You ideally want 2.5 delay or longer - a shadow axe from HoS is probably the easiest attainable item that meets this criteria, but it really needs to be a sword for acceleration strike; Vilucidae's Sword of Shielding is probably your best bet then but lacks a damage proc.</p><p>You need to gear for +dps mod and +crit % primarily. The MoA, ivy shrouded earring of tunare, buckler of the howler, underworld legplates, and mastercrafted rings are all good choices, as are 10DPS adorns in your neck and ranged slots. Also the rewards from The League line offer some nice crit % items, and a useful proc against Vampires. A 20+ haste item is also obviously important.</p><p>When fighting, you make sure bind wound and acceleration strike are up before the fight starts. Your focus is always single target DPS; open with Obliterate to make sure your opening wave of CAs land, and make sure sever and merciless charge are on early. Get used to switching an axe in every 30s, using the axe-only CA, then getting the sword back in asap to benefit from the haste of acceleration strike.</p>

[Rattfa]

<cite>Snorm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why in god's name are you making a guardian to DPS?</p><p> Snorm -- 70 Guard</p></blockquote> Anap@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>I have to ask the same question.  Why? If you want to DPS, roll a DPS class.  There's fighers out there that do great DPS. Guards are for tanking the best of the best - why roll one for DPS purposes? </blockquote> You ever have the idea that maybe he just wants to? Who are you to tell him how to play the game!

[danmuntz]

I'm not telling anyone how to do anything. Maybe I'll go make a Templar and spec it for tanking <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Raahl]

<cite>DynamicPerformance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm working on leveling up a Fae guardian to dps.  </blockquote><p>This is why.  My guess is that they are looking to level, mostly by soloing.  And it is much easier to solo with a guardian when they have DPS.</p><p>Guardian AA in this order:  STR/STA/INT.  Get a decent buckler with a tower shield as a backup. </p><p>Good luck.</p>

[Aristigon]

<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Get used to switching an axe in every 30s, using the axe-only CA, then getting the sword back in asap to benefit from the haste of acceleration strike.  </blockquote> This technique doesn't really work for getting the benefit of both abilities. I've fought mobs with my stats pulled up and my haste would drop when switching to an axe and my crit would go away when switching back to a sword. It would be really [Removed for Content] nice it the abilities worked that way though. If you really wanted to do that, however, you could open up the fight with an axe, pop your CA's after the crit ability and then switch to sword and finish the fight like that with acceleration strike up.

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>The crit from Executioner's Strike only applies to the subsequent attack. So it's perfectly feasible to switch, use the CA, then swing the crit hit with an axe, then switch back to a sword in 2 seconds. It's approximately 500dmg + a free crit at the cost of -28 haste for 2 seconds, which to me is worth it.</p><p>What you don't, of course, want to do is have the axe out any longer than necessary, since you're losing haste. But I find this gives me the benefit of both abilities meaning no AAs are wasted.</p>

[Woruud]

Because I have to tank ~30% of the time either as MT, offtank adds, duo tank encounters, or split tank encounters and usually not having the benefit of a good hate x-fer type when I am not MT, I went STR 4-4-8-8, INT 4-4-7-8-2 and I use the Silver Sword of Rage from Vyemm; Hoping for Annealed Defender, Vilucidea's Sword of Shielding or Ancient Vorpal Blade. When tanking I avg 700 - 900 dps, when not tanking it is 1000 - 1400,  I try to time flay with dispatch and despoil, when i see it go off I hit obliterate swap to axe, pop executioner's wrath, swap back to sword and pop flay, precise strike, lay waste.  When not MT and I have high haste, IE a illusionist and a zerker, or a monk (prefer both) I use Rak'leklo, Runeblade of the Doomflight, when I have high DPS mod, inquis / coercer or dirgeI go DW and use Oblivion's Edge and Scepter of Destruction.

[Max122]

<p>.........Sigh all this talk about off tanking and dpsing pains me to read.  Unless you are STing for another guardian what is your guild thinking.  I MT most every fight only very few rare cases do I not.  Pally off tanks 90% of the time for me and he loves it and would rather do that then MT.</p>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<cite>Max122 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>.........Sigh all this talk about off tanking and dpsing pains me to read.  Unless you are STing for another guardian what is your guild thinking.  I MT most every fight only very few rare cases do I not.  Pally off tanks 90% of the time for me and he loves it and would rather do that then MT.</p></blockquote><p> Well, it's a myth you have to be uber defensive to tank a raid. I've happily picked up Mayong Mistmoore after he charmed the tank and handled him in offensive stance going all out DPS (because it's usually way more important to hold aggro than take 2% less damage). Any KoS raid I often alternate a lot between offensive and defensive stance, and wear DPS mod / crit % gear.</p><p>What kills a raid tank is usually either an add incapacitating the MT healers, or something like invalidate. In either situation the only thing that'll save your [Removed for Content] is tower of stone and that's a constant regardless of how defensively you fight. The only thing maxing out every bit of damage avoidance you can offers is reducing the power consumption of your healers, and I've never seen us wipe from oop healers. What I do see wipes to all the time though, are memwiping mobs running into the MRF and unleashing a huge AE, and being able to churn out a constant 1500+dps will help you with this a lot.</p>

[Wabit]

i just like the OP's siggy... can't ever go wrong with a bunny =D

[Judist]

<p>DPS guards are more fun to play. We can all agree DPS spec is not the best choice for a MT but honestly, if the OPs bringing up a new guardian whats the chance of being a raid MT anytime soon?</p><p>I find DPS/buckler spec is perfect for instance tanking and fine for MA/Offtanks. And if the OPs MT goes away, can always respec.</p>

[PaganSaint]

Raid: More DPS equals out to more hate, more hate for the guardian equals out to more dps the raid can produce, more dps the raid can put out equals out to less total damage the guardian takes and less power the healers use over time. -Or- Solo: More DPS equals out to shorter fights, shorter fights equals out to less damage taken, less damage taken equals out to harder the mob the guard can then solo.

[Terron]

<cite>Max122 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>.........Sigh all this talk about off tanking and dpsing pains me to read.  Unless you are STing for another guardian what is your guild thinking.  I MT most every fight only very few rare cases do I not.  Pally off tanks 90% of the time for me and he loves it and would rather do that then MT.</p></blockquote>The idea that people think that there is something wrong with raiding with a non-optimal set of classes pains me to read. I very rarely MT on a raid, but I have never been on a cutting edge raid for my guild. Mostly I go on the lower level raids that I organise for quests/fun, when I generally do not want the extra work of being MT.

[Snorm]

<cite>Judist wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>DPS guards are more fun to play. We can all agree DPS spec is not the best choice for a MT but honestly, if the OPs bringing up a new guardian whats the chance of being a raid MT anytime soon?</p><p>I find DPS/buckler spec is perfect for instance tanking and fine for MA/Offtanks. And if the OPs MT goes away, can always respec.</p></blockquote><p> Yeah, I could see where it would be fun, it's just that the OP struck me as someone making a guard particularly to do DPS. This could be a fun exercise, kind of like trying to make a brig to raid tank or whatever, but just a little odd <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Set up right, you can get pretty good DPS out of a guard, and most other tanks for that matter, and you certainly should go for a full defensive spec unless you are the MT for raids on a regular basis.</p><p>Snorm -- 70 Guard</p>

[Woruud]

<cite>Max122 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>.........Sigh all this talk about off tanking and dpsing pains me to read.  Unless you are STing for another guardian what is your guild thinking.  I MT most every fight only very few rare cases do I not.  Pally off tanks 90% of the time for me and he loves it and would rather do that then MT.</p></blockquote>Yes I am the guilds ST, and both of the main guards myself and the MT have ~14k hp + and 6k mit and ~65% avoid in MT grp, I usualy have at least a mystic as my healer with a templar or a quis and if the MT happens to fall I can tank pretty much any mob with either 1 or 2 healers until he is up and buffed or until the mob is dead.  We just cleared Freethinker's Hideout tonight, 3rd guild on server to do so; so please do not attack me or my guild and how we raid, obviously we do quite good compared to our peers on BB. Maybe instead of hiding behind some forum handle you might gain some credibility from your peers by saying who you are in game, and what you have tanked~ till then eff off.

[Rufio]

Why won`t the STR and wisdom lines doen to the end work well together?

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<a href="mailto:Rufio@Everfrost" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rufio@Everfrost</a> wrote: <blockquote>Why won`t the STR and wisdom lines doen to the end work well together?</blockquote><p> The Wisdom line is bad for DPS. The hammer attack can't be used on epics, DPS mod is easily put into diminishing returns by gear and buffs, and since you'll be in offensive stance you're not gaining any c/s/p either.</p><p>Ultimately the best DPS you could possibly get would be Str 4 6 8 4 2 Sta 4 4 8 Int 4 4 2, using a Clearcutter Machete. This is very impractical in a raid though because you'd need to stay below 50% health, which is impossible with all the heal procs and group heals going on (not to mention it would open you up to being 1-shotted by AE). So whilst the Str endline does give extremely good DPS, it's just not usable in a raid situation, or in most groups.</p><p>A common spec is Str 4 4 8 Sta 4 4 8 Int 4 4 8 (with the remaining 1 point spent on anything). This is very good single target damage, but requires you have a Sword equipped.</p><p>A good alternative is Str 4 4 8 Agi 4 4 8 Sta 4 4 8. This gives better and more consistent DPS on groups of mobs, which is what the Guardian class lacks, and isn't so weapon dependant, giving you more choice in what you use. It's much better for tanking, if you hit reinforcement with this spec then those AE autoattacks are pulling aggro for you - with a low delay weapon and haste it's like using an AE every 5 seconds. The extra AE in dragoon spin is also handy in this sense.</p>

[Yourbestfriend]

Ok I'm far too lazy to read the posts on this thread, however unless your guilds dps sucks [Removed for Content] it's extremely hard to hold down agro without doing some sort of DPS. Go look at any endgame guard, and every single one of them is putting out 1k zonewides, Personally I put out 1.5-1.7k zonewides but I am a dps crazed motherfucker. And I have to be to hold agro against the top end DPS. Defensive is sort of a joke. You can tank everything in the game in offensive stance if you have raid gear, you just have to have confident healers behind you. If you are saying you don't need to dps as a guardian to hold agro, please re-roll your class because you are just dumb, or your dps blows [Removed for Content]. Do you have to do 1.5-1.7k zonewides? No, but you have to do a decent amount ho old off the endgame dps, taunts are a [Removed for Content] joke. Just make sure you hit the hate mod cap. Here's my aa Set up Stamina 8 4 8 8 2 Strength 4 4 8 3 Merciless Charge 3 Sever 4 Command 3 Wall of Force 3 Plant 5 Unyielding Will 5 Stone Sphere 5 Tower of Stone 5 Block 1 Overpower 3 Vindictive Strike 3 Reinforcement 5 Rescue 5

[Yourbestfriend]

Can't get more Freethinkers zonewides because we have been dropping all our mages in the raid to get guardian hats to drop so completely [Removed for Content] up our zonewide. So those are recent ones(Past month) atleast the ones I did decent in =p + my guild doesn't post all the zonewides on our boards, lazy [Removed for Content]. Lyceum Jaraxx1662 MMIS Jaraxx 2903179 | 1565.90 MMIS Jaraxx 1588 MMIS Jaraxx 2534338 | 1543.45 Freethinkers Jaraxx1668

[wes_GS]

<p>If you want all out dps for guardian, you need to ignore the Tier4 and Tier5 achievements and focus on the Tier4 achievements.</p><p>The biggest dps gains come from Double Attack, DPS Mod, Haste, and Melee Critical Chance.  You should put 8 points into Double Attack, 8 points into DPS mod, and 8 in either haste or melee crit depending on the type of weapon you have.  If you dont have an axe or a sword, favor the melee crit chance for strength.</p>

[Ganeden]

<cite>DynamicPerformance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm working on leveling up a Fae guardian to dps.  My intent is to make a guardian that can out dps my monk. Which should be too hard, since my monk is tank speced and only pulls 1.1k dps in raids, 900 tops in defensive stance.  <ul><li>My question is: What AA's should I get?  The Guardian tree is fairly straightforward for dps, but the Warrior one confuses me.  I will not be taking any damage, so riposte will be useless to me.</li></ul></blockquote> Something is horribly, horribly wrong if guardians can out-dps brawlers.

[Aristigon]

the bruiser in my guild regularly parses 1700 zonewide and has spiked over 2k more than I can count. I'd imagine monks should be in the same ballpark.

[Cornbread Muffin]

<cite>Aristigon wrote:</cite><blockquote>the bruiser in my guild regularly parses 1700 zonewide and has spiked over 2k more than I can count. I'd imagine monks should be in the same ballpark. </blockquote><p>Since they already come with a hefty bit of haste, Monks usually parse below Bruisers in a raid setting as the Bruiser benefits a lot more from haste buffs. They can also do better burst damage so it takes a while for monks to catch up with their faster recast timers. Monks sustain their DPS better but in a high-dps raid a Bruiser can unload and the mob is dead pretty quick which drives up their DPS numbers leaving Monks eating their dust. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Also, as raid setups change everything what your brawler parses is less important than what your brawler parses compared to other classes on the same raid. </p>

[Skeptycal]

<cite>Ganeden wrote:</cite><blockquote> <blockquote> </blockquote> Something is horribly, horribly wrong if guardians can out-dps brawlers.</blockquote>The OP said he wants to out-parse his "tank-spec" brawler. That isn't very wrong and is quite doable. I would say STA 4,4,8 STR 4,4,8 and (INT or AGI) 4,4,8 in that order for dps spec. The STA line makes the most difference. Of the two last ones I like AGI the best since you get a nice AOE in addition to the proc. Also, I'm lazy and I hate having to click they darn acceleration thing all the time ... just never could get used to it. I've had 2 guardians to 70 now. I tried a zerker in between. It just wasn't the same. I like the guardian class better. So if you want to go dps .. find a good buckler and get the adorns and go for it. Just dont expect <i>TOO </i>much =)

[LostSerpant]

<cite>DynamicPerformance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm working on leveling up a Fae guardian to dps.  My intent is to make a guardian that can out dps my monk. Which should be too hard, since my monk is tank speced and only pulls 1.1k dps in raids, 900 tops in defensive stance.  <ul><li>My question is: What AA's should I get?  The Guardian tree is fairly straightforward for dps, but the Warrior one confuses me.  I will not be taking any damage, so riposte will be useless to me.</li></ul></blockquote><p>a guardian is totaly useless when it cmes to dps go str and sta keep ya resists up and mitigation coz they just pure defence tank, they crap at pvp unless in a group and crap solo keep mastercrafted kit on ya and a huge tower shield </p><p>lvl66 guardian reaperscurse venekor server </p>

[pist]

I have a couple questions about this topic.  I am a very seasoned player, with a 70 illy in full raid, and a 70 assassin in legendary.  I'm pretty good at, and familiar with most aspects of the game. My situation is this: I'm leveling a guardian because I get tired of never being able to do anything with no tank <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So I figured I'd just roll one and not miss out.  I am leveling fairly quickly - a level or 2 a day, on average.  However, I don't spend a lot of time on my 70's making $ or farming or any of that, so I do have a finite amount of funding.  In general I'm just using quested gear, with app4's/adept1's.  I'm 33 now, and the levels are starting to slow down such that i'll invest in some ad3's/masters.  I do a decent mix of soloing/grouping, and am looking for dps oriented AA spec.  I've been reading about the str/sta/int 448, which looks ok.  Coming from an assassin/illy, and with 30 AA's, str/sta 448 so far is just painfully slow.  So far I usually tank in defensive, and solo in offensive, as pubbies suck, and my guildies are only slightly better.  I never get aggro issues outside of huge twinks  or someone 5-6 levels above me. What is the feasibility of this setup: Str 448 Agi 441 Int 44882. For soloing using dual wield, and standard 1h/tower for tanking.  I've been playing around with dual wield and it does on average 15-20dps more than my 1h/shield setup (90dps, 75 respectively).  Additionally, with my dual weild I end up using less power as I'm using less CA's - and life is about the same. Str for the obvious melee crit Int for all the DPS buffs AND the +Parry (which I would max).  The +parry is important for my survivability, especially when dual wielding with no shield.  Remember that I'm in treasured gear in all sorts of groups, so it's not like i'll be hitting any sort of cap on things like parry or defense. Agi just because it's somewhere to spend the points, and the avoid + AoE help can't be a bad thing. I thought about the Sta line, but I can't ever see a buckler + 1h doing more dmg than a full int spec with DW - am I correct in this thinking?  Also, I considered maxing str4 for the hate, but I've yet to have any real hate issues so I tossed that out. The only other thing I am considering is switching the DW for a 2h.  The int line gives a fair amount of haste, and I could see that making a 2h do slightly more dps than DW. -- Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

[sintextblindsu]

i have ben messing around with the AA lines since the drastic change that took part last UL and have noticed that the final ability for STA also helps a ton with mana consumption(guard eat mana like no other toon) for dps my sugestion is INT and STA both to the final ability the casting timer bonus and 10% less mana consumption balance out nicely.   i notice the final AA in sta helps my mana consumption but the wording is easy to missunderstand.  this set up also alows for tanking. you will come to find out getting groups for *dps guards* will be tuff.

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>I've changed my opinion since my last post, the highest DPS possible in the game I've now found is str 4 4 8 agi 4 4 8 int 4 8 5, with a good 2-hander.</p><p>The problem is by good 2-hander I mean Avatar or TTR drop. The KoS 2H weapons are without exception an absolute joke; but soon as you have a 6.0 delay 2H and crits / haste buffed the DPS shoots up. Particularly on groups, with the 40% AE autoattack.</p><p>Unless you have one of these 2H weapons, then str 4 4 8 sta 4 4 8 agi 4 4 8 with one leftover point into anything is generally the best spec for DPS.</p>

[pist]

<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I've changed my opinion since my last post, the highest DPS possible in the game I've now found is str 4 4 8 agi 4 4 8 int 4 8 5, with a good 2-hander.</p><p>The problem is by good 2-hander I mean Avatar or TTR drop. The KoS 2H weapons are without exception an absolute joke; but soon as you have a 6.0 delay 2H and crits / haste buffed the DPS shoots up. Particularly on groups, with the 40% AE autoattack.</p><p>Unless you have one of these 2H weapons, then str 4 4 8 sta 4 4 8 agi 4 4 8 with one leftover point into anything is generally the best spec for DPS.</p></blockquote> What about for soloing?  When I was testing my solo ability, using ANY sort of a shield just [Removed for Content] my dps, but when dual weilding I actually came out better off in both the parse and life/mana used.  Yes, I understand you guys don't talk about soloing much as a guardian, or even about any spec less than 80AAs, but there are still lots of us on the way up <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I can very much see respecing for the 448 lines later on, but it doesn't seem to be that great as of yet : 37 guard with 35 AAs.

[Raahl]

<p>To solo with a guardian you need to maximize your DPS.  The STR/STA/AGI route is your best bet.  The quicker you kill a mob the less damage he can do to you.</p><p>To me the benefits fo the defensive abilities just are not that good.  Sure a couple % is nice, but with diminishing returns they become fairly worthless.</p>

[Wilin]

<cite>pist wrote:</cite><blockquote> What about for soloing?  When I was testing my solo ability, using ANY sort of a shield just [I cannot control my vocabulary] my dps, but when dual weilding I actually came out better off in both the parse and life/mana used.  Yes, I understand you guys don't talk about soloing much as a guardian, or even about any spec less than 80AAs, but there are still lots of us on the way up <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I can very much see respecing for the 448 lines later on, but it doesn't seem to be that great as of yet : 37 guard with 35 AAs. </blockquote> I posted somewhere in this forum that I soloed my way to mid 40s using DW but that was before AAs existed. Soloing is about dps except in particular instances. In the absence of AAs, DW was(and maybe is) the way to go. But with 35AAs, you should be able to take 448 in both STR and STA and do more damage with a 1h/buckler than you would with DW. It won't be a huge jump in dps though. The damage behind STR/STA comes from the auto attack and crits so just make sure that your 1h weapon is not too fast. Without any/much haste, you probably want a 2.0 delay weapon with a high max damage to get the most out of it.