SK vs Pally

[Moltove]

<p>Is there an eventual difference between the two? I know growing up in the Isle of Refuge, they were just about the same, just that the spells had different names and instead of Divine magic, it was turned to Disease.</p>

[Forsaken1]

<p>Defensive Crusader</p><p>Pally's are kinda like a pocket priest. They buff, heal, and tank a little. Personaly I think they have a harder time holding aggro, but I have'nt played one past level 20. </p><p>Offensive Crusader</p><p>SK's dont have direct heals, instead using lifetaps and damage procs. They have several AE affect spells which help to hold aggro while tanking and they put out better DPS because of this. Currently have a 30 SK. </p><p>Just my 2cp.</p>

[Brigh]

<cite>Forsaken1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Defensive Crusader</p><p><b>Pally's are kinda like a pocket priest. They buff, heal, and tank a little. Personaly I think they have a harder time holding aggro, but <u>I have'nt played one past level 20</u>.</b> </p><p>Offensive Crusader</p><p>SK's dont have direct heals, instead using lifetaps and damage procs. They have several AE affect spells which help to hold aggro while tanking and they put out better DPS because of this. Currently have a 30 SK. </p><p>Just my 2cp.</p></blockquote> Which goes to show your comment holds no weight. The one thing I notice between EQ1 and EQ2 is the apparent lack of personal aggro control responsibility. In EQ1 people knew to control just how much they took aggro from the tank. In EQ2 it seems it is all put on the tank's shoulders and to hell with what you are doing. That being said, paladins get a single taunt and an AE encounter taunt that also debuffs divine. At 21 (see you didn't even go to the better levels) you get the first in a line of aggro transfer siphons, Redemption. At 52 you get Sigil of Heroism, which is a group hate transfer to you for 15 seconds (more with each enhancement from EOF). In EOF in the Hero line is also the Block Mastery final line ability giving enhanced block (add the 1% block adornments for greater effect) for greater avoidance. Buff? The only buffs I cast are the standard group STR/WIS buff, the avoidance cast on another person that increases my defense as well, Amends (last in the Redemption line), Battle Leadership KOS group buff, group divine proc, self divine proc, and self hp buff (where oh where is the EQ1'ish group Brell's buff...). Heal? The only time I direct heal when tanking is if it seems the healers need the help, IF I can get one through the beatings. I have read some people that play paladins prefer to support, but I find myself being the MT in groups most of the time. Properly geared and now speced you can be a good group tank.

[Bozidar]

<p>To answer your real question (why you haven't seen any difference) you should consider that they used to be the same class at those levels.</p><p>EQ2 used to be like this:</p><p>lvl 1-9 you were a Fighter? class.  Then you choose Crusader, Brawler, or Warrior.</p><p>lvl 10-19 you were what you choose before going to 10th.</p><p>Lvl 20 you choose to be an Sk or a Paladin.</p><p>So until lvl 20 you're not going to see a HUGE amount of difference beyond the types of damage that they do.  They won't be identical, but they'll be very similar.</p><p>Level em both to 30th or so, an see for yourself.</p>

[Quda]

<p>You forgot a pally's most coveted aggro control ability, the master1 amends.</p><p>41% hate transfer from one player to the pally.  You have a wiz that is going nuts, put amends on him, and let him go balistic, the mobs will stick to you like glue, because of the transfer, the wizard gets less hate than normal, and you gain more.  You will actually want him to go all out.</p><p>With a Master 1 amends on the right groupie, the only way anyone will pull aggro from you is if they slack off, and you go LD.  Or the rare times they want to use a miracle, and the spike damage gets the mobs attention.  But don't worry, the mob will come right back to you after the mobs squish the squishy.</p>

[Forsaken1]

<cite>Brigh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Forsaken1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Defensive Crusader</p><p><b>Pally's are kinda like a pocket priest. They buff, heal, and tank a little. Personaly I think they have a harder time holding aggro, but <u>I have'nt played one past level 20</u>.</b> </p><p>Offensive Crusader</p><p>SK's dont have direct heals, instead using lifetaps and damage procs. They have several AE affect spells which help to hold aggro while tanking and they put out better DPS because of this. Currently have a 30 SK. </p><p>Just my 2cp.</p></blockquote> Which goes to show your comment holds no weight. The one thing I notice between EQ1 and EQ2 is the apparent lack of personal aggro control responsibility. In EQ1 people knew to control just how much they took aggro from the tank. In EQ2 it seems it is all put on the tank's shoulders and to hell with what you are doing. That being said, paladins get a single taunt and an AE encounter taunt that also debuffs divine. At 21 (see you didn't even go to the better levels) you get the first in a line of aggro transfer siphons, Redemption. At 52 you get Sigil of Heroism, which is a group hate transfer to you for 15 seconds (more with each enhancement from EOF). In EOF in the Hero line is also the Block Mastery final line ability giving enhanced block (add the 1% block adornments for greater effect) for greater avoidance. Buff? The only buffs I cast are the standard group STR/WIS buff, the avoidance cast on another person that increases my defense as well, Amends (last in the Redemption line), Battle Leadership KOS group buff, group divine proc, self divine proc, and self hp buff (where oh where is the EQ1'ish group Brell's buff...). Heal? The only time I direct heal when tanking is if it seems the healers need the help, IF I can get one through the beatings. I have read some people that play paladins prefer to support, but I find myself being the MT in groups most of the time. Properly geared and now speced you can be a good group tank. </blockquote><p> Wow, bitter much? </p><p>I clearly stated I hadnt taken a Pally very far and these were just my opinions.</p><p>As no one else had taken the time to reply to the OP I offered my perspective. I was in no way derogatory to Paladins.</p>

[DwarvesR]

<p>I still think that this says it all. . .  </p><p><img src="http://ftw.angband.se/ftw-07.jpg" border="0"></p>

[MortisR]

<cite>Brigh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Forsaken1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Defensive Crusader</p><p><b>Pally's are kinda like a pocket priest. They buff, heal, and tank a little. Personaly I think they have a harder time holding aggro, but <u>I have'nt played one past level 20</u>.</b> </p><p>Offensive Crusader</p><p>SK's dont have direct heals, instead using lifetaps and damage procs. They have several AE affect spells which help to hold aggro while tanking and they put out better DPS because of this. Currently have a 30 SK. </p><p>Just my 2cp.</p></blockquote> Which goes to show your comment holds no weight. The one thing I notice between EQ1 and EQ2 is the apparent lack of personal aggro control responsibility. In EQ1 people knew to control just how much they took aggro from the tank. In EQ2 it seems it is all put on the tank's shoulders and to hell with what you are doing. That being said, paladins get a single taunt and an AE encounter taunt that also debuffs divine. At 21 (see you didn't even go to the better levels) you get the first in a line of aggro transfer siphons, Redemption. At 52 you get Sigil of Heroism, which is a group hate transfer to you for 15 seconds (more with each enhancement from EOF). In EOF in the Hero line is also the Block Mastery final line ability giving enhanced block (add the 1% block adornments for greater effect) for greater avoidance. Buff? The only buffs I cast are the standard group STR/WIS buff, the avoidance cast on another person that increases my defense as well, Amends (last in the Redemption line), Battle Leadership KOS group buff, group divine proc, self divine proc, and self hp buff (where oh where is the EQ1'ish group Brell's buff...). Heal? The only time I direct heal when tanking is if it seems the healers need the help, IF I can get one through the beatings. I have read some people that play paladins prefer to support, but I find myself being the MT in groups most of the time. Properly geared and now speced you can be a good group tank. </blockquote>I had the same questions. Thanks to those of you who answered them in a polite fashion. To the author I quoted above, why would you bother responding if you were just gonna be a jerk about things? All the guy did was state his opinion. You have serious issues.

[Bozidar]

Jonna@Befallen wrote: <blockquote><p>I still think that this says it all. . .  </p><p><img src="http://ftw.angband.se/ftw-07.jpg" border="0"></p></blockquote>it's so strange to try to grasp the concept of an SK and pally in the same group <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  You just dont see that kinda thing on PvP very often.  Good times, nice comic <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Moltove]

Ok, thanks guys, you were all very helpfull, even the jerk =P

[Maeginia]

<cite>Moltove wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Is there an eventual difference between the two? I know growing up in the Isle of Refuge, they were just about the same, just that the spells had different names and instead of Divine magic, it was turned to Disease.</p></blockquote><p>Paladin vs. Shadowknight.  Yes, many differences which have all been stated above.  </p><p>SKs have life and power taps to keep themselves healed as well as deal significant damage to enemies.  We had one Tarinax fight where a SK dual-tanked with a zerker, and the SK ended up #2 on the heal parse.  Ridiculous, right?  If you play your SK the right way, in the end-game you are an excellent soloer and tank that can can do very nice DPS.  A SK through AAs and general DPS can keep aggro very well.</p><p>So what about Paladins??  In my opinion Palys are great tanks for grouping.  I have one!  Leveling up I was always an excellent tank for any situation, and yes, I always seemed to be the MT.  This depended more on equipment than anything else.  Now that I am 70 with a fair amount of AAs, I do find my paly lacking.  I am still a fine tank for grouping and doing instances, but I find that it is more difficult for Paladins to overcome some weaknesses that crusaders have.  One is our low mitigation.  I currently have above average gear (for non-raiders)...  I even have most of the claymore items that add mitigation, and I still sit at approx 4250 in defensive.  Of course better gear would help this, but you have to be a raiding paly, and most guilds only have room for one, if that.  A guardian would be around 5K mit.  Add low mit with the ability to heal yourself but the inability to do a lot of damage, you find that you run out of power before you can kill heroic mobs.  I do not find myself soloing a lot while my SK friends are quite good at it.  So I hang out in groups or duos... back to grouping!  As said in a previous thread, Palys get a sweet spell, amends.  This IS how they will keep aggro.  With amends and all the aoe spells that Palys get, they are the best tank for warlocks, EQ2's ever-sacrificial class.</p><p> So right now I would say that SKs are the better class.  I love my paly, but I really do think their weaknesses are numerous right now.  However, add a few live updates and some nerfs or boosts, who knows what we will think of Paly vs. SK. </p><p>I think someone dabbled in the SK grouping with a Paly situation.  I actually duo'd all of SoS and PoA claymore with my dear SK friend, Vinladia.  When we started I was lvl 60, she was lvl 70.  Even at 60 I was a strong enough healer to keep her alive and duoing was fun!  Especially since the opposing classes can make fun of each other all day long <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But it gets down to the fact that it always made more sense for her to be MT and me to assist.  </p><p>Just be sure to throw amends on em every now and then to make them crazy about why they can't keep aggro!!!  Gotta keep those SKs in check.<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Brigh]

Holy hell... <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> All I did was emphasize that he only took a paladin to level 20 so his statements should not be taken heavily at all. Saying paladins are kinda like pocket priests didn't help at all. Please people... Reading comprehension 101.