Brell Day Reward

[Rainkng]

To whom it may concern, I am writing this not only as a long-time player of this game but also as an adult and parent. Today I zoned into the new portal in Antonica to see what the event was like for the up-coming holiday weekend and found myself in a bar surrounded by many drunken NPC's and a bartender who gave me a quest that ultimately rewarded me with a keg that I could put in my player house and, as one player in chat put it; "get drunk whenever I wanted to." Now, understand that I am not by <i>any </i>stretch of the imagination a prude or person who has not partaken in the consumption of alcohol in all it's various forms.  In fact, I'd have to say just the opposite.  I've done more than my share of drinking and reaped all the "rewards" associated with doing so. However, in a day and age where we continually see how devastating the consumption and abuse of alcohol can be in any number of given lives I have to question the thinking that went on behind the instituting of this event.  I know there are warnings provided before any person ever enters the land of EverQuest about the use of alcohol in game and I think that's fine.  I also understand how the consumption of ales and spirits play an integral part in the emersion into the game world and, again, I think that's great.  I do, however, take umbrage as a parent and health care provider who has seen <b>A LOT</b> of the downsides to drinking when, in celebration of an up-coming holiday, the developers specifically <i>add</i> content that not only puts the making and consuming of alcohol as the major plot point but actually rewards the player with an item that they can use over-and-over again to obtain in-game inebriation. Please, before writing me off as some sort of "killjoy," or lazy parent who want someone else to be responsible for raising his kids (and for the record; none of mine play) or some ultra-conservative idiot that's just out to cause trouble over something that appears to be a completely benign aspect of an imaginary world, hear me out for just a few moments more. I believe alcohol to be one of the most destructive forces we have on this planet.  When you stop and consider how many lives are shattered by it's use and abuse every year the statistics can be overwhelming.  The illnesses and health complications directly related to drinking are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg when speaking in terms of negative impacts.  But, don't forget about the lost jobs, ruined marriges, abused children, broken families and people being killed all in the name of "having a little fun."  Which is exactly what I was told today in game by a number of people when I made a comment about alcohol maybe not being the best form of reward for the commitment involved in helping characters celebrate St Patrick's Day in Norrath.  That I should just "shut up and let people have their fun." (Yes, that was also a quote). About a month ago five children - teenagers - were killed and three more permanently injured in an accident here where I live.  A woman who was too drunk to drive allowed <b>eight</b> kids (who had also been drinking) to pile into her five-passenger car for a ride home but instead slammed into a light pole at a high rate of speed.  Although I wasn't there, nor do I know any of the victims or their families personally, I can testify to the devastating impact this tragedy has had on the community.  And, I can't even begin to imagine what the poor parents of those kids must be feeling at a time of year when life is begining anew all around us and teens everywhere are graduating 8th grade and high school.  I'm sure many - if not all - off you reading this can think of at least one similar situation near where you live or, God forbid, have lived through a similar tragedy yourselves. I know this is just a game.  I really and truly do.  And, I love playing and being a part of it.  I also want you to know I am not a  hypocrit but instead someone who has seen - often times first hand - the destruction that can occur because of the abuse of something that's just supposed to be "fun."  Using and abusing alcohol is <i>not</i> a game.  At least not to me.  And, I think we, as responsible adults and role models need to remember that and be careful when sending the message that it's an OK form of recreation - even if the message is unintentional. I'll step down off my soapbox now and apologize ahead of time for offending anyone with my posting on this topic.  But, when I heard the arguments in chat today defending not only this quest (which, I'm sure, is fun in and of itself) but it's very premise I couldn't help but feel compelled to post something in hopes of it not falling deaf on at least a few pair of ears. Thank you for your time and consideration. FF/PM KMM

[bensilvi]

Youve got to be kidding me! This is a game not to mention the entire of lore of both dwarves and halflings since the begining of time included large amounts of ale. My sister was killed by a drunk driver when i was 6 not 100 yards from my house and i am in no way offended of the actions of this event. Perhaps you should step away from it and delve into more reasons why you are offended.

[Skua]

while i agree..... real life != game..... u kill bears giants beetles gnolls dragons wolfs humans in eq2........but u kill them in real life? Need for speed , gran turismo encourage ppl to drive fast as hell? Gta is a good example =)

[ZUES]

Ya, I cant believe your serious. Dont participate in the event and all is rectified. Instead go headshot a giant eyeball kill a vampire (like thats any better on morales and ethics). This isnt G rated! Go play SIMS.

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

I think the inference is aptly made over a developer's neutrality, or rather, unasserted stance, that implements of the game are made without any overt condoning or condemnation. This is the way it ought to be. Just because something has presence means in no way that the creators of such need be responsible with accounting their opinion to the consumers. What you seem to be getting at is the fact that this is inappropriate for the realm of a "Teen rated" environment of entertainment -- this is, in fact, an erroneous objective to pursue. In the real world, teens are subject to the ongoing situations of alcohol and the social circumstances involved therein (see: movies [yes, "Teen rated"], regular partaking in everyday life). As an adult, it may very well be an excellent choice...or not...to limit your children from the subject situations within EQ2. To suppose any such concern be taken seriously is to request that the prohibition again be instated, because "as adults", you ought show denounce such an activity to your subordinates with such clear evidence. Sure, he may encounter virtual embodiments of humanized type figures consuming alcohol and having a good time, but to give the notion that they would be affected to the degree that they foster this as a perspective of adoration and yearning duplication is just a <b><i>bit</i></b> too unbecoming of an understanding about man's relative situational awareness. Am I claiming you ought have this? Yes. With children, you should. Knowing what is safe for exposure ensures your children's fair and free access to a perspective and stance free of bias and sheltering. Such a social stage, if proper highlights of caution are provided, can be an awesome learning experience for a teenager, despite what many may think. One last mentation I'd like affix to this be that, if you wish to provide publicly your relations, stemming from your personal and private life, be prepared to deal with the views of the base acting as audience to you.

[Mawie]

The rating of the game itself says that, among other things, alcohol is a theme in this game. So, it should not be a surprise to anyone who plays this that there might be a quest or two involving it. <b>It isn't the job of SOE to parent your kids-- it is YOUR job</b>. The chat channels are full of dirty language... I don't see how animate drunkeness is any worse. Seriously. I cannot believe I am even reading a thread like this. I really do think I have seen it all on these boards now. Edit: from esrb.com EverQuest II Echoes of Faydwer Sony Online Entertainment T  Suggestive Themes,  Use of Alcohol, Violence Windows PC

[Freddy101]

<p>What a killjoy. I finally know the definition of the word. I don't even drink in real life and had a sister that died from a drunk dirver and even I think your being silly as silly gets. It's a game. Play it to have fun and don't bring your ridiculous point of view into a gaming forum. Actually scratch that do as you please it's your right. Most ridiculous thing I've read in 7 plus years of playing soe games. You ARE a prude. Simple as that.</p><p>On a side note. Where in antonica do you get this quest. I'd love a keg in my house. </p>

[Josgar]

Just dont let your kid drink in game? Im a teen by the way, and even though there is Alcohol in this game, it doesn't make me want to go drink it... Give kids more credit. We aren't stupid >.>. If SOE wants to put Alcohol in a game rated teen that has a warning on the back of the box then they should be able too... I know for sure though, that my dad would not let me drink in EQ1 until I hit level 21, however I never got a character to level 21. I think by telling someone they cannot do something though, will make them want to do it more, because I wanted to drink in EQ the second my dad said: No you cannot >.>

[Ultimega2]

Alright guys, stop giving the guy a hard time. Though I am 16 (and have never drank, by the way) I can see where he is coming from. He has a valid concern that any responsible parent would have. It is not necessarily teens that we have to worry about with this game (a vast majority are stupid on their own without a game) but the impressionable young kids that may be watching their parents play this game. They see their parent having fun with the quest, mayhaps laughing at the distorted screen, and think that drinking in and of itself is fun. This is the RESPONSIBLE parent's que to teach the child the game does not reflect real life. I propose that all parents have a heart to heart with their children on the effects of alcohol, using the distorted picture on the game as a small example. God bless.

[Josgar]

To me, if the removed this quest, it would be like America banning peanuts because a small percent of its population is allergic to peanuts... Not all people who play this game are teens or kids (Yes im a teen but thats not the point.) I'd just let people have their fun, but if you are still concerenced, dont let your kid go to the bar.

[Mawie]

Ultimaomega@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>Alright guys, stop giving the guy a hard time. Though I am 16 (and have never drank, by the way) I can see where he is coming from. He has a valid concern that any responsible parent would have. It is not necessarily teens that we have to worry about with this game (a vast majority are stupid on their own without a game) but the impressionable young kids that may be watching their parents play this game. They see their parent having fun with the quest, mayhaps laughing at the distorted screen, and think that drinking in and of itself is fun. This is the RESPONSIBLE parent's que to teach the child the game does not reflect real life. I propose that all parents have a heart to heart with their children on the effects of alcohol, using the distorted picture on the game as a small example. God bless.</blockquote> What you're missing is the game ratings board has flat out given this game a teen rating partially because of the use of alcohol in this game. It is clearly on the game box. If this "concerned" parent was really concerned, they would have read the box to begin with and known right off the bat that this would be in game. It is like buying Grand Theft Auto for your kid and then whining that it depicts car jackings.

[Brigh]

This thread is no different than the other threads about killing wildlife or what ever.

[Trillien]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote> I believe alcohol to be one of the most destructive forces we have on this planet.  When you stop and consider how many lives are shattered by it's use and abuse every year the statistics can be overwhelming.  The illnesses and health complications directly related to drinking are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg when speaking in terms of negative impacts.  But, don't forget about the lost jobs, ruined marriges, abused children, broken families and people being killed all in the name of "having a little fun."  Which is exactly what I was told today in game by a number of people when I made a comment about alcohol maybe not being the best form of reward for the commitment involved in helping characters celebrate St Patrick's Day in Norrath.  That I should just "shut up and let people have their fun." (Yes, that was also a quote). About a month ago five children - teenagers - were killed and three more permanently injured in an accident here where I live.  A woman who was too drunk to drive allowed <b>eight</b> kids (who had also been drinking) to pile into her five-passenger car for a ride home but instead slammed into a light pole at a high rate of speed.  Although I wasn't there, nor do I know any of the victims or their families personally, I can testify to the devastating impact this tragedy has had on the community.  And, I can't even begin to imagine what the poor parents of those kids must be feeling at a time of year when life is begining anew all around us and teens everywhere are graduating 8th grade and high school.  I'm sure many - if not all - off you reading this can think of at least one similar situation near where you live or, God forbid, have lived through a similar tragedy yourselves. FF/PM KMM </blockquote> I earlier this month canceled all 3 of my SA accounts for obvious reasons. Yes, the rating for the game indicates alcohol use. But, by allowing a reward that encourages constant consumption of alcohol, it sends a message that is inappropriate. A few years ago, I was a passenger in a car that was struck by a drunken teen-ager. I was very nearly killed and have required surgery five times because of this accident. The police told my husband in the trauma unit that they had arrested the driver numerous times for DUI and now could get him off the streets. I am in pain 24 hours a day because of this accident. His parents did not supervise his activities, which was very clear at the trial. When I had to make my victim statement, I asked that he be given help rather than a jail term. After the trial, he was given 10 days in jail and a suspension of his driver's license for 1 year. The policeman who testified at the trial told me (with tears in his eyes) that he would be back on the streets only too soon. He was the policeman who sat with me for an hour and held my hand while they cut the car apart around me, since I was trapped there. He was also the one who had to call my husband to come to the hospital. I will forever be grateful to him and the paramedics who took care of me. The teenager was not injured at all. I understand only too well what the OP is saying, and I commend him for his courage in making a public statement. Perhaps it is fate that my final statement in these forums deals with something that has had a profound impact on my life and my family. To the OP, thank you...live long and prosper.

[Nastharl]

To feel that anything that happened to you is solely the fault of drinking is the height of folly. What happened is the fault of horrible people. Dont scapegoat something just so that you can have something more concrete to fight. I in no way demean what has happened to you, it is truly horrible, but it has nothing to do with drinking in a video game, and to try and raise a child by attempting to block their access to anything questionable is just wrong. Educate, dont hide.

[Rabid-Othmir]

The OP has a good point. While we are on the subject, Freeport needs to be removed because it influences people to be evil, the entire combat system needs to be removed because killing is immoral, and the Fae need to be removed because they're just plain annoying.

[Kitsune]

And I'm writing as a year long player, a teacher, a parent, and a daughter who had to watch her father kill himself with alcohol. Alcohol is NOT a Force, it is every individual's personal choice to drink or not drink - and every alcoholic's choice to seek aid, to listen to their family when they say they need aid, or to drink themselves to death as I was told by Social Services when I tried to get help for my father. "He's an adult, in his right mind, Accept his decision." So I had to. Tell me, have you tried the brew in the Everlasting Barrel? You see 4 of everything, the whole screen is fuzzy and moves constantly, and it makes you feel ill to play like that - AND it lasts for 30 minutes even if you log out till the next day! It is seriously enough to put anyone off drinking from it. I have 2 toons with it and I never touch the stuff because it makes me feel nauseous. It is enough to put most folk off playing drunk! In fact I don't think you can play in that state! It is not an incentive to drink, believe me! There is such a thing as freedom. It is a St Patrick Day event - what do you suggest the prize be - a pot of shamrocks? Please, be more adult in your outlook. Freedom works both ways - you have the Freedom to ignore the Quest as has already been said. We have the Freedom to do it. " I believe alcohol to be one of the most destructive forces we have on this planet.'  Far from it - Try Politics, religion, homicide bombers, try drugs, famine, drought, natural disasters ... the list is endless. Alcohol is small potatoes and in many countries is the only way the water is fit to drink... that is how/why alcohol was developed, ya know. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Most countries drank it very watered down, but it killed bacteria in the water. I got my son GTA when he was mmm... 12, I think, because I wanted him to to be able to run cars motor bikes across park lawns, through flower beds, <b>in a virtual setting</b>, not become a thug in real life. I gave him watered down alcohol at feasts - Christmas, New Year, his birthday and mine, to get him used to it so he didn't do as his friends at school did - get blind drunk on cheap booze then spend the 30 minutes before their parents picked them up from the school dance/friend's party, outside vomiting and crying, terrified to be caught drunk! The result was - alcohol holds no thrill for him, he doesn't like the taste, and sees no point in persevering to acquire it. He doesn't want to do anything thuggish in any way - he's an artist, a Live Action Role Play gamer, with many like minded friends. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And he works as a Pirate, teaching Gold Coast and Pirate history to 4-5th Graders on a recreated pirate ship. So please, don't be so narrow minded and don't try to tell us shutting away the harsh realities of life protects anyone from it - it only serves to make it far more attractive! You should know that!

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Ultimaomega@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>Alright guys, stop giving the guy a hard time. Though I am 16 (and have never drank, by the way) I can see where he is coming from. He has a valid concern that any responsible parent would have. It is not necessarily teens that we have to worry about with this game (a vast majority are stupid on their own without a game) but the impressionable young kids that may be watching their parents play this game. They see their parent having fun with the quest, mayhaps laughing at the distorted screen, and think that drinking in and of itself is fun. This is the RESPONSIBLE parent's que to teach the child the game does not reflect real life. I propose that all parents have a heart to heart with their children on the effects of alcohol, using the distorted picture on the game as a small example. God bless.</blockquote>Ahhh yes, the exact predicament every encounter with EQ2's alcohol would arise around. Lol. <i><b>YEAH RIGHT.</b></i> To conjure up one potentiality and then suppose this to be the central example hinging this as a "valid concern" is completely naive. Any sensible parent <u><b><i>would know</i></b></u> that the content within this game is rated by US bureaucracy to be fit for the mental capacities of teenagers -- if you have a problem with their structuring you ought submit a formal complaint to their base of operations. Submitting the "correlation" that, due to the adult's lapse in prudence (i.e. failing to properly "safeguard their children from such a sight" as your example outlies) becomes a burden of an entertainment developer's creation is truly, sincerely inane. It is no such thing. The cue is prior preemption far surpassing your supposed point of informing. I would suppose then, at 16, you are failing to understand the concept of "responsibility" here; although, such a description (of "responsibility" in this case) entailing only the rigid shielding of your children. Trillien wrote: <blockquote><cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote> I believe alcohol to be one of the most destructive forces we have on this planet.  When you stop and consider how many lives are shattered by it's use and abuse every year the statistics can be overwhelming.  The illnesses and health complications directly related to drinking are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg when speaking in terms of negative impacts.  But, don't forget about the lost jobs, ruined marriges, abused children, broken families and people being killed all in the name of "having a little fun."  Which is exactly what I was told today in game by a number of people when I made a comment about alcohol maybe not being the best form of reward for the commitment involved in helping characters celebrate St Patrick's Day in Norrath.  That I should just "shut up and let people have their fun." (Yes, that was also a quote). About a month ago five children - teenagers - were killed and three more permanently injured in an accident here where I live.  A woman who was too drunk to drive allowed <b>eight</b> kids (who had also been drinking) to pile into her five-passenger car for a ride home but instead slammed into a light pole at a high rate of speed.  Although I wasn't there, nor do I know any of the victims or their families personally, I can testify to the devastating impact this tragedy has had on the community.  And, I can't even begin to imagine what the poor parents of those kids must be feeling at a time of year when life is begining anew all around us and teens everywhere are graduating 8th grade and high school.  I'm sure many - if not all - off you reading this can think of at least one similar situation near where you live or, God forbid, have lived through a similar tragedy yourselves. FF/PM KMM </blockquote> I earlier this month canceled all 3 of my SA accounts for obvious reasons. Yes, the rating for the game indicates alcohol use. But, by allowing a reward that encourages constant consumption of alcohol, it sends a message that is inappropriate. A few years ago, I was a passenger in a car that was struck by a drunken teen-ager. I was very nearly killed and have required surgery five times because of this accident. The police told my husband in the trauma unit that they had arrested the driver numerous times for DUI and now could get him off the streets. I am in pain 24 hours a day because of this accident. His parents did not supervise his activities, which was very clear at the trial. When I had to make my victim statement, I asked that he be given help rather than a jail term. After the trial, he was given 10 days in jail and a suspension of his driver's license for 1 year. The policeman who testified at the trial told me (with tears in his eyes) that he would be back on the streets only too soon. He was the policeman who sat with me for an hour and held my hand while they cut the car apart around me, since I was trapped there. He was also the one who had to call my husband to come to the hospital. I will forever be grateful to him and the paramedics who took care of me. The teenager was not injured at all. I understand only too well what the OP is saying, and I commend him for his courage in making a public statement. Perhaps it is fate that my final statement in these forums deals with something that has had a profound impact on my life and my family. To the OP, thank you...live long and prosper. </blockquote>A tragic story, honestly, but aside from your personal occurrences with the frailties of human boundaries, is the actual topic at hand. Gaining a fuzzy and blurred overlay of your viewable in game is in <b><u><i>no way</i></u></b> the type of overt encouraging you suppose there to be. With enough of the aptitude at discernment had by myself, I remain unable to refine to isolation these "obvious reasons" you have canceled your account. Oddly enough, it appears to me you being snide here and having no emanation for justification relatable to the subject matter (the price hike is, possibly, a visible instigator of such -- but, when you take it into the account of context, it just makes no sense whatsoever [that which is key]). <cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite><blockquote>And I'm writing as a year long player, a teacher, a parent, and a daughter who had to watch her father kill himself with alcohol. Alcohol is NOT a Force, it is every individual's personal choice to drink or not drink - and every alcoholic's choice to seek aid, to listen to their family when they say they need aid, or to drink themselves to death as I was told by Social Services when I tried to get help for my father. "He's an adult, in his right mind, Accept his decision." So I had to. Tell me, have you tried the brew in the Everlasting Barrel? You see 4 of everything, the whole screen is fuzzy and moves constantly, and it makes you feel ill to play like that - AND it lasts for 30 minutes even if you log out till the next day! It is seriously enough to put anyone off drinking from it. I have 2 toons with it and I never touch the stuff because it makes me feel nauseous. It is enough to put most folk off playing drunk! In fact I don't think you can play in that state! It is not an incentive to drink, believe me! There is such a thing as freedom. It is a St Patrick Day event - what do you suggest the prize be - a pot of shamrocks? Please, be more adult in your outlook. Freedom works both ways - you have the Freedom to ignore the Quest as has already been said. We have the Freedom to do it. <span style="color: #ff3300"> " I believe alcohol to be one of the most destructive forces we have on this planet.'  Far from it - Try Politics, religion, homicide bombers, try drugs, famine, drought, natural disasters ... the list is endless.</span> Alcohol is small potatoes and in many countries is the only way the water is fit to drink... that is how/why alcohol was developed, ya know. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Most countries drank it very watered down, but it killed bacteria in the water. I got my son GTA when he was mmm... 12, I think, because I wanted him to to be able to run cars motor bikes across park lawns, through flower beds, <b>in a virtual setting</b>, not become a thug in real life. I gave him watered down alcohol at feasts - Christmas, New Year, his birthday and mine, to get him used to it so he didn't do as his friends at school did - get blind drunk on cheap booze then spend the 30 minutes before their parents picked them up from the school dance/friend's party, outside vomiting and crying, terrified to be caught drunk! The result was - alcohol holds no thrill for him, he doesn't like the taste, and sees no point in persevering to acquire it. He doesn't want to do anything thuggish in any way - he's an artist, a Live Action Role Play gamer, with many like minded friends. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And he works as a Pirate, teaching Gold Coast and Pirate history to 4-5th Graders on a recreated pirate ship. So please, don't be so narrow minded and don't try to tell us shutting away the harsh realities of life protects anyone from it - it only serves to make it far more attractive! You should know that!</blockquote>(Response to highlight<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hmm. I'm differing a bit with this inoculation by the either one of you (no offense). Succinctly, ignorance is; and, as the underpinning offshoot of such an icon, imprudence.

[Ponos]

<p>I want the 10 minutes of my life it took to read the original post back.  </p><p>Though I hate labels, I can be labeled as "straight edge."  Hell, I don't even consume caffeine.  Yet, I am not in the least bit offended by the keg reward.  In fact, I max out my Alcohol Tolerance skill at each level, and have a ball RPing being drunk and loud when appropriate.</p><p>This in no way encourages me to drink.  If anything, it does just the opposite because the blur effect is nauseating after awhile.  And I'm refreshed whenever I get my vision back.</p><p>The most important thing a gamer MUST do is clearly understand the difference between in-game actions and the consequences of human action.  Reality vs. simulated reality, however skewed.</p><p>I'm an avid gamer and prefer violent, mature FPS games and EQ2.  I play for hours a day everyday, but in "real life" I'm a very benign, passive, and friendly individual.</p><p>Please don't limit our freedom.  We do not limit <i>your </i>freedom.  After all, you don't have to play.</p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Yes, central here is liberty and the proper handling of such. Distinct limitations without due reason are impediments to the bases many of us carry throughout our life mindset. Advocation of the opposite seems counterproductive and I am curious as to why you would give proponence (ah, [Removed for Content] you English language -- I jurisdict [OMG, jurisdict is now also an acceptable conjugation {of jurisdiction} as stemming from this decree] the adaptation of the noun for interoperability as an adverb) to such. (P.S. Parenthesizing...for the win. Although, it as a lot more fluid without my interrupting gibber-jab.)

[Grugg]

Let's not forget that EverQuest II stereotypes "the vertically challenged" as gruff, drunken, battle-hungry, and wrinkly old men. <b>> </b><b> I believe alcohol to be one of the most destructive forces we have on this planet. </b> Then you've never seen what a 1,000-pound bomb can do to a person. <b>> </b><b>When you stop and consider how many lives are shattered ...</b> On the other hand, when you stop and consider how many lives are filled with joy and a sense of freedom... <b>> </b><b>But, don't forget about the lost jobs, ruined marriges, abused children, broken families and people being killed ...</b> All that happens without alcohol, too. That's life. <b>> ... </b><b>helping characters celebrate St Patrick's Day in Norrath.</b> We're not celebrating St. Paddy's Day in Norrath. We're celebrating Brew Day, or more accurately, Brew Week. <b> > </b><b> I know this is just a game.  I really and truly do.</b> If that were true, you wouldn't be drawing strong connections between the game and the world outside the comfort of your home. <b>> </b><b>... when sending the message that it's an OK form of recreation - even if the message is unintentional.</b> The use of alcohol <i>is</i> an <b>okay </b>form of recreation. The message that should not be sent, however, is that the abuse of alcohol for drowning your sorrows and washing away your sins is a physically, interpersonally, and spiritually healthy activity. The message that should not be sent is that drinking and driving is an acceptable and safe activity. So, perhaps, players' characters who are drunk or inebriated can be prohibited from using mounts? Or guards who observe such characters on mounts can jail those players' characters for a brief time until the effect of alcohol wears off?

[Ponos]

<p>That would be hilarious is city guards could arrest you for public drunkenness.</p><p>Maybe they'd make you do a sobriety test that consisted of performing spells/combat arts in the order in which the guard shouts them out without the aid of blinking icons.</p><p>Once in jail, you could bust out, or pick the lock and sneak out if you're a scout.  Maybe freeze the bars and smash them if you're a wizard.  A coercer could charm the key holder or something.</p><p>Ah, the possibilities!</p>

[Grugg]

<cite>Ponos wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ah, the possibilities!</p></blockquote>That all sounds <i>very</i> fun.

[Badaxe Ba]

<p>The events that occur in real life when a human being imbibes too much alcoholic substance in no way match what occurs in game.  </p><p>Except for the blurry vision part, I guess, having fortunately never been that drunk.  </p><p>If I were a person who having never experienced drinking understood this to be an immediate effect, I don't think it would encourage me to begin.  </p><p>The inability to find doorknobs and the abrupt interruptions to the bodily regions from every  object in my vicinity because I cannot navigate properly doesn't seem to me that it would be much fun in real life.</p><p>As a totally safe at home experience that falls short of trying the real thing, that definitely points out the negative side effects,  I have to say this is one event that discourages drinking in real life.</p>

[Hollywood]

Oh no, it's the infamous "Shark Fin" thread all over again... (And for those of you who've never seen that particular gem - <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=67965" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...?topic_id=67965</a>)

[Mr. Dawki]

<p>To the OP:</p><p>aITEM 1109260113 1157795217:salty loam/a</p><p>aITEM -1390415545 79179749:candle/a</p><p>aITEM -1845955260 1469497419:a Spoon/a</p><p>Put them together and see what SOE is teaching your kids!</p>

[NosajMa]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote>A bunch of hypocritical [Removed for Content]. </blockquote> Let's cut to the core of this.  By your logic, alcohol can cause people to die, which is a Bad Thing (tm).  By that same logic, everyone should have all their fingers cut off, because if a finger happens to go in your eye, it could blind you, which is a Bad Thing (tm).  No fingers, no chance of blinding yourself! Oh wait, getting fingers cut off is a Bad Thing (tm) as well. See the flaw in your logic?  Don't [Removed for Content] blame the alcohol, blame the idiots who can't/won't control themselves.

[valkyrja]

Really, I hate "bleeding heart "poor me" stories. The OP, and the person who was in the bad wreck are entitled to their opinion, and I encourage them to voice it.  But all of the examples you've given are examples of bad people, not alcohol.  If you think it's the fault of alcohol, you're sadly mistaken.  We have the ability and responsibility to makes choices, I choose to find this sort of thing fun in game, and I choose to enjoy a whiskey.   I also choose to not get in my car and drive around town when I've had a few too many whiskeys.  The very fact that you are equating the effects of alcohol with these horrible events illustrates to me the biggest problem I have with America today.  No one is willing to take personal responsibility for their actions.  It has to be someone, or something elses fault.  It isn't.

[Nutari2176]

" I believe alcohol to be one of the most destructive forces we have on this planet. " How about we just go with humanity itself is one of the most destructive forces we have on the planet that is a bit more accurate, alcohol in and of itself can do nothing to an individual who is not willing to use it much like a gun is just an object that can be used in violence but is not necessarily used that way every time.

[Druid03]

<p>a·buse [v. <i>uh</i>-<b>byooz</b>; n. <i>uh</i>-<b>byoos]</b></p><p>1.to use wrongly or improperly</p><p>that pretty much says it all.....saved me some time, now i can go have some beer</p>

[Freddy101]

Could a representative of p.e.t.a please step up and post something here to further my entertainment value and redeem some of the time i've wasted in this thread? K thanks.

[TheStateFish]

<p>Only In America!</p><p>Most of the world starts drinking as soon as they can stand at the bar, and thats drinking alone. Within households it's common place at meals. I'm not saying they always get sauced, but a drink or two with a meal even for children is normal. </p><p>To say you aren't a prude and then complain that your adult character in a game can get drunk proves you a prude. Do you petition the fact that you can toggle the language filter off? do you petition every typo that lets a swear past that language filter? Or do you choose to ignre those aspects of the game. You could ignore brew day or let the kiddies know its an adult oriented holiday and use it as a teaching tool.</p><p>Hapy St. Patty's to all!</p><p>Gotta get wasted before I go in to work!</p><p>reviews post.... yes, this is sure to cause trouble, /submit!</p>

[PublicVoid]

<p>Give me a break.</p><p> Alcohol is fun.  Abusing it is a weakness.  Don't bring your weakness to my game. </p><p> This is the lamest thing i've ever seen.  This whole thread should be deleted.</p>

[mogrimsonswi]

<span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: medium">WOW!! Just like OMG totally WOW!! Similar to other posters, I too would like the time back I spend reading the OP. There is a lot of nonsense that is posted here, but how someone could blur the lines between game and RL so very much is frightening!!! I have so much more to say, but since this thread has already reached 3 pages, many have already said it for me. I do have one little thing to add.......the woman in the horrible wreck with the eight kids in the car, had they all been in their homes enjoying EQ2 and what it has to offer, or even if the timing was right, having fun with the Brell Day (not St. Paddy's Day, but Brell Day) quest, they would all still be alive today! Cheers!!</span> </span>

[Grugg]

What kind of car can fit eight kids and an adult woman anyway? Aside from vans and vehicles with trunks.

[Rainkng]

Forest  >  Trees, people. I was originally going to send what I posted initially directly to SOE development in letter or email form but figured I would get much more attention posting it here in the forums. I want to thank each and every one of you for proving me right. I absolutely stand by what I posted and I think if most of you went back a re-read my statement you'd find I was not calling for a "ban" on Brell's day/week/month, whatever... but instead a consideration from the developers on a subject I believe to be fundamentally important. I firmly believe that entertainment, no matter what medium is used to present it, has the ability to profoundly affect the adolescent community.  Speaking strickly for myself, I remember the first album I bought with my own money had a song on it called "Have a Drink On Me."  Now, did this one tune make me start drinking at the age of 14 and continue until I was in my 40's?  Hell, no.  But it definately contributed along with a miriad of other stimuli that I was exposed to during those developmental years.  And, once I began to indulge, every single form of reinforcement that came along - be it in songs, books, movies, magazines, etc. - proclaiming how "cool" it was to party made my commitment to continue doing so that much greater. Now,<i> </i>you and I <i>both</i> know I am not a special case (yeah, go ahead, I know I'm leaving myself open) but instead one of a million people who grew within a similar circumstance. So, my point was not to tell every individual player not to partake in that stupid quest but instead for the <b>developers</b> to think about maybe implementing a different sort of quest with different rewards.  Now, before you say it; <i>No, I am not niave enough to think that by simply removing one quest from an online video game enough of a difference will be made to change the world.</i>  But I <b>do</b> believe people are defined by their <i>actions</i> and not just their words and am willing to state my case rather than just sit back thinking to myself what I could have said or done. The last thing I would like to point out is how strongly most of you came out against an idea that is based on a humanitarian concept.  That is, my intention was to help - not harm.  But, wow, you would have thought I was demanding SOE remove alcohol from the game <i>completely</i> by some of your responses.  I mean I expected to be flamed but at such a level over an idea that cast no judgement on anyone either in game or who posted here.  Funny, though, the majority of you wasted no time whatsoever in judging me and who I am without knowing anything other than the smallest details I provided in my original post.   I have walked to the beat of my own drum my entire life and am very comfortable continuing to do so with or without the blessing of the masses.  If your attacks against me make you feel better then I am honestly happy for you.  But maybe, rather than lashing out at me with verbal tyraids and snide comments fired from the hidden comfort of your homes, you should be asking yourselves <i>why</i> you feel you need to lash out to begin with. Again, go back and read my original post. If for no other reason than at least to take note of the apology I issued right  from the beginning for any offense I may have made. Take care and God bless. KMM

[OogallySolRoSK]

<p>Interestingly enough, alcohol consumption is directly responsible for civilization as we know it.</p><p> Now, the alcohol content was not as great as it was today, but the simple fact that water sources were often contaminated and unhealthy meant that alcoholic beverages were the safest things around to drink.</p><p> Only with the introduction of modern distillation did alcohol began to become so potent and therefore dangerous in terms of health effects.</p>

[CaptainCarrot]

<p>Well.....I dunno about all of this....but I can tell ya one thing...</p><p>I CAN'T WAIT for the Crystal Meth Day Celebration reward!!! =p</p>

[CaptainCarrot]

<p>And before anyone blows a gasket over that comment, allow me to explain what IRONY is:</p><p>According to the Concise OED</p><p>irony</p><p>1 an expression of meaning, often humourous or sarcastic, by the use of language of a different or opposite tendency. 2 an ill timed or perverse arrival of an event or circumstance that is in itself desirable. 3 a literary technique in which the audience can percieve hidden meanings unknown to characters. 4 of or like iron.</p><p>so...i was just trying to be more like iron =p</p>

[CyraDUS]

So wait...the reward is the barrel for your house? Isn't that the exact thing the reward was last year? Is it a different quest for the same reward as last year..or is it the exact same event as last year just revisited?

[Owilliams]

<p>I'm playing a game that has violent killing as a central feature and main means of advancement and someone suddenly wants to stop the boat over celebrating a festival of drinking?</p><p>I'm kinda speechless while pondering that.</p><p>No offense to the OP, but I am really nonplussed, really...</p><p>Happy Gaming?</p><p>--Orv</p>

[Grugg]

<b>> </b><b> I absolutely stand by what I posted ...</b> Absolute faith in the beat of your drum is actually the most dangerous social behavior. <b>> </b><b>has the ability to profoundly affect the adolescent community.</b> So, entertainment affects nobody else? I think you should also consider the majority of gamers are not adolescents. Most gamers are, in fact, in their mid to late 20s. <b>> </b><b>But I </b><b>do believe people are defined by their <i>actions</i> and not just > their words and am willing to state my case rather than just sit > back thinking to myself what I could have said or done.</b> Saying what you think and acting on your thoughts are very different. <b> > </b><b>That is, my intention was to help - not harm.</b> Good intentions do not make the result of your intentions good. The alcohol items in the game do not provide any character effects and are primarily novelty items. In turn, the Alcohol Tolerance skill is useless. As I've read in prior discussions, this was due to the same "good intentions" brought by the Teen rating. <b>> </b><b> Again, go back and read my original post.</b> No thanks. Join MADD if you want to have "enlightened" discussions about the effects of alcohol. Now, if you want to suggest ways to improve our game experience, be my guest. But complaining, and only complaining, is only going to earn you enemies, not friends.

[Owilliams]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote>Forest  >  Trees, people. I was originally going to send what I posted initially directly to SOE development in letter or email form but figured I would get much more attention posting it here in the forums. I want to thank each and every one of you for proving me right. I absolutely stand by what I posted and I think if most of you went back a re-read my statement you'd find I was not calling for a "ban" on Brell's day/week/month, whatever... but instead a consideration from the developers on a subject I believe to be fundamentally important. I firmly believe that entertainment, no matter what medium is used to present it, has the ability to profoundly affect the adolescent community.  Speaking strickly for myself, I remember the first album I bought with my own money had a song on it called "Have a Drink On Me."  Now, did this one tune make me start drinking at the age of 14 and continue until I was in my 40's?  Hell, no.  But it definately contributed along with a miriad of other stimuli that I was exposed to during those developmental years.  And, once I began to indulge, every single form of reinforcement that came along - be it in songs, books, movies, magazines, etc. - proclaiming how "cool" it was to party made my commitment to continue doing so that much greater. Now,<i> </i>you and I <i>both</i> know I am not a special case (yeah, go ahead, I know I'm leaving myself open) but instead one of a million people who grew within a similar circumstance. So, my point was not to tell every individual player not to partake in that stupid quest but instead for the <b>developers</b> to think about maybe implementing a different sort of quest with different rewards.  Now, before you say it; <i>No, I am not niave enough to think that by simply removing one quest from an online video game enough of a difference will be made to change the world.</i>  But I <b>do</b> believe people are defined by their <i>actions</i> and not just their words and am willing to state my case rather than just sit back thinking to myself what I could have said or done. The last thing I would like to point out is how strongly most of you came out against an idea that is based on a humanitarian concept.  That is, my intention was to help - not harm.  But, wow, you would have thought I was demanding SOE remove alcohol from the game <i>completely</i> by some of your responses.  I mean I expected to be flamed but at such a level over an idea that cast no judgement on anyone either in game or who posted here.  Funny, though, the majority of you wasted no time whatsoever in judging me and who I am without knowing anything other than the smallest details I provided in my original post.   I have walked to the beat of my own drum my entire life and am very comfortable continuing to do so with or without the blessing of the masses.  If your attacks against me make you feel better then I am honestly happy for you.  But maybe, rather than lashing out at me with verbal tyraids and snide comments fired from the hidden comfort of your homes, you should be asking yourselves <i>why</i> you feel you need to lash out to begin with. Again, go back and read my original post. If for no other reason than at least to take note of the apology I issued right  from the beginning for any offense I may have made. Take care and God bless. KMM </blockquote><p> I think you miss the point of this game... </p><p>It glorifies things considered far worse than drinking, and that makes the point rather pointless. (is that a pun?)</p><p>--Orv</p>

[Themaginator]

Tarash@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>The OP has a good point. While we are on the subject, Freeport needs to be removed because it influences people to be evil, the entire combat system needs to be removed because killing is immoral, and the Fae need to be removed because they're just plain annoying. </blockquote>yeah no more Necros they make me want to summon the dead!

[Kitsune]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote>Forest  >  Trees, people. I was originally going to send what I posted initially directly to SOE development in letter or email form but figured I would get much more attention posting it here in the forums. I want to thank each and every one of you for proving me right. <span style="color: #3399ff">You and one other agree - and the rest of us say you are getting things out of proportion and unable to tell Fantasy from Reality - - and that proves you right?? You got a very skewed view of the world and your own importance in it.</span> I absolutely stand by what I posted and I think if most of you went back a re-read my statement you'd find I was not calling for a "ban" on Brell's day/week/month, whatever... but instead a consideration from the developers on a subject I believe to be fundamentally important. <span style="color: #3399ff">What? YOUR prejudices? Your enforcing of your ideal over everyone else's cos you cannot tell Real Life from a Fantasy Game? What about the bigger and FAR more important issue of killing in the game - killing people, monsters, poor fluffly Bambis and badgers.... and sharks.. </span> I firmly believe that entertainment, no matter what medium is used to present it, has the ability to profoundly affect the adolescent community.  Speaking strickly for myself, I remember the first album I bought with my own money had a song on it called "Have a Drink On Me."  Now, did this one tune make me start drinking at the age of 14 and continue until I was in my 40's?  Hell, no.  But it definately contributed along with a miriad of other stimuli that I was exposed to during those developmental years.  And, once I began to indulge, every single form of reinforcement that came along - be it in songs, books, movies, magazines, etc. - proclaiming how "cool" it was to party made my commitment to continue doing so that much greater. <span style="color: #3399ff">Just because you had no backbone as a kid and went with the crowd rather than though it out sensibly for yourself, does not mean everyone is like you. It's psychological - you have a red car, you only notice the red cars on the road. Your explanation strikes me as being an excuse for your personal drinking, not a reason. As others have said, and as a Teacher of grades 1-7, may I remind you that YOU as a Parent have the ultimate responsibility of bringing up your kid - not the rest of us, not society, not Entertainment! Don't let them play this game! How difficult is that? Give them WOW instead, let them go on a PVP spree!  Or get them the SIMS as has already been suggested. Or even don't have any game consols or PCs in the house, and no TV.... Friend of mine when our kids were 3 year olds wanted no violent TV programs in her house. But she encouraged her son to kick the chair if he bumped into it and say "Bad chair!" Cos .. it was the chair's fault of course. Yeah.. no violence... I told her she couldn't stop there being violent games in her kid's life because when he went to school it would happen there, other kids would tell him about tv shows, play violent games you name it. She said Oh no... till I pointed out what the 2 lads were doing with Lego bricks, the big chunky ones - they had made "swords" and were playing with them. You cannot Hot House young people growing up! You can only guide them about the dangers they face in the world and prepare them to make their own reasoned out choices, cos one day you will NOT be there to make choices for them and what then will they fall back on if you don't allow them to have any knowledge of Real Life and its dangers? </span> Now,<i> </i>you and I <i>both</i> know I am not a special case (yeah, go ahead, I know I'm leaving myself open) but instead one of a million people who grew within a similar circumstance. <span style="color: #3399ff">Actually I am one of those to whom advertising a product has a negative effect on me. I don't buy it. I'm sure I'm not alone. </span> So, my point was not to tell every individual player not to partake in that stupid quest but instead for the <b>developers</b> to think about maybe implementing a different sort of quest with different rewards.  Now, before you say it; <i>No, I am not niave enough to think that by simply removing one quest from an online video game enough of a difference will be made to change the world.</i>  But I <b>do</b> believe people are defined by their <i>actions</i> and not just their words and am willing to state my case rather than just sit back thinking to myself what I could have said or done. <span style="color: #3399ff">You mean - don't give US a choice? Yes, people are defined by their actions - so don't let your kids play this game! Don't play it yourself if you feel so strongly about it - or are you hypocritical enough to enjoy the rest of the game, the Killing people and animals and monsters, the magic spells, all that and just want that one innocuous fun Quest removed? Stop whining at us and trying to enforce your narrow minded attitudes on adults in case teenagers might just be attracted to a once a year festival that has a barrel of beer as a prize! Others have said it - this is a game about KILLING people and monsters - and you complain about a keg of beer? Geez... Please, get a life... </span> The last thing I would like to point out is how strongly most of you came out against an idea that is based on a humanitarian concept.  That is, my intention was to help - not harm.  But, wow, you would have thought I was demanding SOE remove alcohol from the game <i>completely</i> by some of your responses.  I mean I expected to be flamed but at such a level over an idea that cast no judgement on anyone either in game or who posted here.  <span style="color: #3399ff">Humanitarian? By allowing the Killing of everything in sight, yet banning that Quest?? Um.. what is the point of having alcohol in the game at all if the only time it really is in the game properly, you want to ban it? The few alcoholic named drinks there are don't affect you as alcohol. How REAL is that? What message does that give teenagers? Surely that is far worse than one that says "Drink this strong brew and you can't see worth spit." You really think that "Drink a gin and tonic then go out to adventure?" is less of a temptation to drink? (Gin and Tonic being a drink I can make as a Provisioner)</span> <span style="color: #3399ff">What message is slaughtering everything that moves giving? Xenophobia? Are all the kids playing it gonna turn out Hannibal Lectors?</span> Funny, though, the majority of you wasted no time whatsoever in judging me and who I am without knowing anything other than the smallest details I provided in my original post.   I have walked to the beat of my own drum my entire life and am very comfortable continuing to do so with or without the blessing of the masses.  If your attacks against me make you feel better then I am honestly happy for you.  But maybe, rather than lashing out at me with verbal tyraids and snide comments fired from the hidden comfort of your homes, you should be asking yourselves <i>why</i> you feel you need to lash out to begin with. <span style="color: #3399ff">You stick your head up to get shot at by making sweeping generalities about us, how bad you think alcohol in the game is, and the quest should be removed, then yes, you will get things thrown at you. A good old fashioned practice called Debate. Or Freedom of Speech. Or try the Right To Disagree With You. Or - You Really are in the Minority....</span> Again, go back and read my original post. If for no other reason than at least to take note of the apology I issued right  from the beginning for any offense I may have made. <span style="color: #3399ff"> Issuing an apology doesn't prevent folk from disagreeing with you. That's what you don't like. </span> Take care and God bless. <span style="color: #3399ff">You say God Bless - I assume you are Christian. What about your communion wine? What about when Jesus turned Water to Wine at the wedding at Canaan? Was he also encouraging the young to drink? Was he an arbiter of the demon drink too? Is the church? Are you asking the Theologians to rewrite the bible, to rework all church services to take alcohol out lest, gods forbid, the very taste of it, or presence of it, encourages teens to drink??  Reaffirms it is the right thing to do? You cannot have it both way ya know... </span> KMM </blockquote>

[Rainkng]

I think it's time to switch to decaf, Kisune.  (Lol) So, you're a teacher of young minds?  <i>That</i> scares me more than the Barrel of Beer Quest. I'll say it one more time a little ...  more ... slowly ... and ... clearly ... for ... the . . . public . . . education. . . provider. . . . <b>I never called for the banning of the quest.</b> My OP was meant as a <i>suggestion</i> to the <i>developers</i> and I figured this forum would get more attention - so, I <i>was</i> right about that. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  And, for the record, I don't believe I'm any more important or entitled than any other human being on this planet - even a teacher who clearly needs some sort of anger management classes or a vacation or possibly a new vocation.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As far as fantasy vs. reality?  Well, (/sigh) again, I already explained clearly that I understand this is a game and that my contention was the <i>suggestive nature</i> of the quest.  That's it.  Period. If I'm guilty of <b>"...having no backbone..."</b> and <b>"...going with the crowd..."</b> because I was influenced by the entertainment medium that I was allowed to view and listen to as an adolescent then I guess you got me there (/rolls eyes), me and every other influential young teen on the planet.  Kids are kids and are extremely sensitive to what their exposed to during their formative years.  Oh, wait.  You're a teacher which means you already know that because I <i>assume</i> you've had to have some sort of high-level child development education in order to acquire your teaching degree.  Or, did you just maybe buy your degree online?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I already stated, my kids don't play this game.  And, for the record, <i>nobody</i> raises my children except <b>my wife and I</b>.  Period.  Nor, do I expect anyone to.  My suggestion was meant as a means to possibly help promote a alternative reward so that <i>other</i> children and families might not suffer as others have.  <i>Why in the world is this such a stretch for people like yourself to concieve?!</i> (Lol) You <i>are</i> a teacher of <i>children</i>, right?  Hmm.... I'm suprised this concept bothers you. (/scratches head)  Are you sure you're in the right line of work? Oh, and I absolutely do try and limit what entertainment my children are exposed to and talk to them openly about any and all questionable content.   I also prohibit them from drinking, smoking and using drugs and abstain from all said vices myself.  But, as I mentioned, that wasn't always the case which helped to prompt my concerns to begin with.  Maybe that's at the heart of where our "debate" lies, Kits, my experience-based intentions vs. your liberal, narrow-minded and selfish view of said intentions.  I'm guessing you're probably single and in you're 20's.  Am I right?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  By the way, you're helping me make my point with your comment about <b>"... NOT be(ing) there to make choices for them and what then will they fall back on..."</b>  I'm hoping the guidance my wife and I have provided will help a great deal (it has so far) but, either you're very niave or just plain stupid if you think that entertainment media and peer pressure won't affect those choices at any given time. Again, I never called for the <i>banning</i> of the quest - just that the developers maybe consider a different one from now on.  I mean, jeeze, you're telling me you'd rather be rewarded with a giant keg that keeps you from playing the game correctly for a short time vs. maybe, oh, I don't know... a bronze pot you can put in your home containing a number of <i>gold pieces</i> to spend in game? Heh,  Are you <i>sure</i> you really want to go down the religion path here?  (/raises eyebrows and grins)  That's a very slippery slope, my friend and I'd tread lightly if I were you. Without giving away too much or delving too deep; your assumptions are wrong about me being a "Christian," however, my belief in a Greater Good is what got me here in this forum to begin with and I'll stop there without going into the great man known as Jesus Christ and what he did or <i>did not</i> do as written by <i>other men</i>.  And, once again for the record, my choice is not to drink or take communion, but what others do is completely up to them and I am glad for whatever brings them peace in this area of belief. This is a game.  A form of entertainment.  Let's keep it at that level and leave God and the theologists out of it, ok? Have a nice day. =) <i>edit: Bah, to early for being gramatically correct</i>

[Hollywood]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's time to switch to decaf, Kisune.  (Lol) So, you're a teacher of young minds?  <i>That</i> scares me more than the Barrel of Beer Quest. I'll say it one more time a little ...  more ... slowly ... and ... clearly ... for ... the . . . public . . . education. . . provider. . . . <b>I never called for the banning of the quest.</b> My OP was meant as a <i>suggestion</i> to the <i>developers</i> and I figured this forum would get more attention - so, I <i>was</i> right about that. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  And, for the record, I don't believe I'm any more important or entitled than any other human being on this planet - even a teacher who clearly needs some sort of anger management classes or a vacation or possibly a new vocation.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As far as fantasy vs. reality?  Well, (/sigh) again, I already explained clearly that I understand this is a game and that my contention was the <i>suggestive nature</i> of the quest.  That's it.  Period. If I'm guilty of <b>"...having no backbone..."</b> and <b>"...going with the crowd..."</b> because I was influenced by the entertainment medium that I was allowed to view and listen to as an adolescent then I guess you got me there (/rolls eyes), me and every other influential young teen on the planet.  Kids are kids and are extremely sensitive to what their exposed to during their formative years.  Oh, wait.  You're a teacher which means you already know that because I <i>assume</i> you've had to have some sort of high-level child development education in order to acquire your teaching degree.  Or, did you just maybe buy your degree online?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I already stated, my kids don't play this game.  And, for the record, <i>nobody</i> raises my children except <b>my wife and I</b>.  Period.  Nor, do I expect anyone to.  My suggestion was meant as a means to possibly help promote a alternative reward so that <i>other</i> children and families might not suffer as others have.  <i>Why in the world is this such a stretch for people like yourself to concieve?!</i> (Lol) You <i>are</i> a teacher of <i>children</i>, right?  Hmm.... I'm suprised this concept bothers you. (/scratches head)  Are you sure you're in the right line of work? Oh, and I absolutely do try and limit what entertainment my children are exposed to and talk to them openly about any and all questionable content.   I also prohibit them from drinking, smoking and using drugs and abstain from all said vices myself.  But, as I mentioned, that wasn't always the case which helped to prompt my concerns to begin with.  Maybe that's at the heart of where our "debate" lies, Kits, my experience-based intentions vs. your liberal, narrow-minded and selfish view of said intentions.  I'm guessing you're probably single and in you're 20's.  Am I right?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  By the way, you're helping me make my point with your comment about <b>"... NOT be(ing) there to make choices for them and what then will they fall back on..."</b>  I'm hoping the guidance my wife and I have provided will help a great deal (it has so far) but, either you're very niave or just plain stupid if you think that entertainment media and peer pressure won't affect those choices at any given time. Again, I never called for the <i>banning</i> of the quest - just that the developers maybe consider a different one from now on.  I mean, jeeze, you're telling me you'd rather be rewarded with a giant keg that keeps you from playing the game correctly for a short time vs. maybe, oh, I don't know... a bronze pot you can put in your home containing a number of <i>gold pieces</i> to spend in game? Heh,  Are you <i>sure</i> you really want to go down the religion path here?  (/raises eyebrows and grins)  That's a very slippery slope, my friend and I'd tread lightly if I were you. Without giving away too much or delving too deep; your assumptions are wrong about me being a "Christian," however, my belief in a Greater Good is what got me here in this forum to begin with and I'll stop there without going into the great man known as Jesus Christ and what he did or <i>did not</i> do as written by <i>other men</i>.  And, once again for the record, my choice is not to drink or take communion, but what others do is completely up to them and I am glad for whatever brings them peace in this area of belief. This is a game.  A form of entertainment.  Let's keep it at that level and leave God and the theologists out of it, ok? Have a nice day. =) <i>edit: Bah, to early for being gramatically correct</i> </blockquote> Adding a smiley face every other line does absolutely nothing to hide your defensiveness and hostilty towards the fact that no one agreed with your self-professed "helpful suggestion." 

[Mawie]

Wow, so now not only is the OP guilty of being unable to read the ESRB rating right on the game box, he is arrogant and insulting to anyone who counters his opinion. Again, OP, <b>READ THE BOX</b>-- right on it is says that there is alcohol in the game. If you still bought the game for your kids or yourself despite the warning, then you are ridiculous for coming here and lecturing the planet because of your narrow, poorly formed views. I think the dangers of stupidity far outweigh the dangers of booze any day.

[Rainkng]

I give up. (Lol) You guys win, I lose. I'm a misguided idiot who should have just kept his mouth shut and thoughts to himself. That'll teach me. You can now begin gloating over your conquering of a thread that'll be forgotten long before you're old, and feeble and entirely dependant upon someone else to clean the feces from your bottom. Congratulations. You must be very proud of yourselves. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[bruschi]

I dont think the OPs rant doesnt has any credibility at all. It clearly states use of alcohol on the esrb. If it didnt say that then he has a beef. Its like watching a pornographic movie and complaining theres nudity in it. Some people just like to complain.

[Kane]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000"> <b> This is a game.  A form of entertainment.  Let's keep it at that level</b></span> </blockquote>I am thinking you should have thought of this before you posted your "point" about the effects of alcohol.

[Ultimega2]

<cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Take care and God bless. <span style="color: #3399ff">You say God Bless - I assume you are Christian. What about your communion wine? What about when Jesus turned Water to Wine at the wedding at Canaan? Was he also encouraging the young to drink? Was he an arbiter of the demon drink too? Is the church? Are you asking the Theologians to rewrite the bible, to rework all church services to take alcohol out lest, gods forbid, the very taste of it, or presence of it, encourages teens to drink??  Reaffirms it is the right thing to do? You cannot have it both way ya know...</span></p><p><span style="color: #3399ff"><span style="color: #cc3333">Just so you know, He said not to get drunk, not to stop drinking altogether.  And, as a Christian, I say God bless to you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span> </span> KMM </p></blockquote> </blockquote>

[NosajMa]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote>I give up. (Lol) <span style="color: #0033ff">An indication of how seriously you take this supposed serious concern.</span> You guys win, I lose. I'm a misguided idiot who should have just kept his mouth shut and thoughts to himself. <span style="color: #0033ff">That is the first thing I have agreed with you on.</span> That'll teach me. You can now begin gloating over your conquering of a thread that'll be forgotten long before you're old, and feeble and entirely dependant upon someone else to clean the feces from your bottom. Congratulations. You must be very proud of yourselves. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <span style="color: #0033ff">No, apparently you're very proud of yourself for coming onto a gaming forum and starting a thread that you knew would incite flames and name-calling, and then you continued to provoke it! Fact: you came on here asking for the devs to consider an alternative reward to a keg of beer.  Your explanation was that you're concerned about the effect it will have on <i>other people's kids,</i> since you stated your kids don't play this game.  Yet numerous people have pointed out the glaring flaw in your logic: if you're so concerned about the effect of one thing in this game on kids, why not everything else?  Why aren't you concerned about the ability to kill PEOPLE in this game?  Or the crafting of shark fin soup?  Or the rogue's ability to STEAL coin? This, sir, makes you a hypocrite.  If you don't know the meaning of the word, www.m-w.com is your friend.  As others have pointed out, you apparently can't stand it that everyone didn't just fall all over each other to agree with you.  It sounds to me more like you have a personal vendetta against alcohol; or maybe you just plain suck so badly at the game that you couldn't complete the quest and are taking out your frustration on this board.  Whichever it is, I could care less, it's irrelevant.  The fact remains that you tried to start an argument on here without a solid logical foundation, and you got your [Removed for Content] handed to you for it. So, how's that crow tasting? </span> </blockquote>

[Mawie]

Ultimaomega@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote><cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Take care and God bless. <span style="color: #3399ff">You say God Bless - I assume you are Christian. What about your communion wine? What about when Jesus turned Water to Wine at the wedding at Canaan? Was he also encouraging the young to drink? Was he an arbiter of the demon drink too? Is the church? Are you asking the Theologians to rewrite the bible, to rework all church services to take alcohol out lest, gods forbid, the very taste of it, or presence of it, encourages teens to drink??  Reaffirms it is the right thing to do? You cannot have it both way ya know...</span></p><p><span style="color: #3399ff"><span style="color: #cc3333">Just so you know, He said not to get drunk, not to stop drinking altogether.  And, as a Christian, I say God bless to you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span> </span> KMM </p></blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> Yeah, PS, one of the consequences of drinking is getting periodically getting drunk. I've been allowed to drink wine and beer since I was a small child, and I can honestly say I have only been horendously drunk twice in my life, once when I was 22 and once when I was 23. It is fun for like a whole minute until I puked or something crappy like that. Does my getting drunk twice make me a drunkard unable to function in society? Not at all. I think you and the OP are both missing the fact that no one here is saying that it is acceptable to always be drunk (it's not), but many adults, including incredibly responsibly ones, have managed to get sloshed a time or two in their day. That doesn't make them bad people. I kind of get the feeling you are young and sheltered from what you've been saying, so I will go easy on you. But in all reality, my most sheltered friends growing up where the ones who went nuts once we got into college-- that includes my super duper religious friends. It is puritanic and prudish to hide the existance and effects of alcohol from children-- it often backfires. AND who is the OP to tell me what to do with my body? Another point you're both missing. I can't make you drink (I wouldn't make you drink) the same way you can't tell me not to get drunk. Further, drop the christianity garbage on the boards. If I were the type to get easily offended I would run to a mod about your signature that is swimming in religious overtones. This is not the place for that.

[funkmasterflex]

<p>when exactly did we as a society morph into a touchy-feely,  no cursing, no nudity, dont hurt anyones feelings and accept everyone else's differences? if your offended by a pretend drinking holiday in a computer video game then youve got more pressing issues than dwarves.  i think george carlin said it best when he said ..." there's two knobs on it, one of them changes the channel, and the other one turns it off".  if you dont like something then dont use it, do it, watch it, eat it, etc.  just because you're sensibilities are so off kilter than pretend make-believe in an online MMORPG is offensive,  doesnt mean that its complaint worthy.  maybe you should stick to pac-man; no wait, the pacman discriminates against the multi-colored ghosts and makes them turn blue and eats them. i dont know, go watch seseame street and stay off the internet - there's [Removed for Content] and violence and dare-i-say-it, video games with a st patty's day style holiday.</p>

[Rainkng]

<cite>NosajMaxX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote>I give up. (Lol) <span style="color: #0033ff">An indication of how seriously you take this supposed serious concern.  <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>You're right, this must completely sum up how concerned I am (Lol).</b></span></span> You guys win, I lose. I'm a misguided idiot who should have just kept his mouth shut and thoughts to himself. <span style="color: #0033ff">That is the first thing I have agreed with you on.  <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>Gee, really?!?  Why, thanks!  Now I won't need to be rocked to sleep tonight knowing you agreed with me on something!</b></span> <span style="color: #000000"><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></span> That'll teach me. You can now begin gloating over your conquering of a thread that'll be forgotten long before you're old, and feeble and entirely dependant upon someone else to clean the feces from your bottom. Congratulations. You must be very proud of yourselves. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <span style="color: #0033ff">No, apparently you're very proud of yourself for coming onto a gaming forum and starting a thread that you knew would incite flames and name-calling, <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>Umm... no.  But your welcome to believe whatever you want.</b></span>  and then you continued to provoke it! Fact: you came on here asking for the devs to consider an alternative reward to a keg of beer.  Your explanation was that you're concerned about the effect it will have on <i>other people's kids,</i> since you stated your kids don't play this game.  <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>Correct.</b></span>  Yet numerous people have pointed out the glaring flaw in your logic: if you're so concerned about the effect of one thing in this game on kids, why not everything else?  Why aren't you concerned about the ability to kill PEOPLE in this game?  Or the crafting of shark fin soup?  Or the rogue's ability to STEAL coin? <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>These last couple of points (except for the shark fin soup) have merit and I could see where it would lead you to conclude your next statement.  Howver, those issues weren't my primary concern for posting due to focusing entirely on the alcohol theme.  My mistake.</b></span> This, sir, makes you a hypocrite.  If you don't know the meaning of the word, www.m-w.com is your friend.  <b><span style="color: #000000"><span style="color: #ffffff">And why don't you take your own advice and look up <i>"sarcasm"</i> while you're at it. That would be the overall tone I was going for with this post you're quoting.</span>  </span></b><span style="color: #000000"><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><b><span style="color: #000000">  </span></b>As others have pointed out, you apparently can't stand it that everyone didn't just fall all over each other to agree with you.  <span style="color: #000000"><b><span style="color: #ffffff">This couldn't be further from the truth</span>.</b></span>  It sounds to me more like you have a personal vendetta against alcohol; <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>Possibly</b></span> or maybe you just plain suck so badly at the game that you couldn't complete the quest and are taking out your frustration on this board.  <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>(Lol) Ok.  Whatever.  Feel better now?</b></span>  Whichever it is, <i>I could care less</i>, <span style="color: #000000"><span style="color: #ffffff"><b>Obviously not true at all or you wouldn't be posting in the first place</b></span> </span> it's irrelevant.  The fact remains that you tried to start an argument on here <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>Not true</b></span>  without a solid logical foundation, <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>Again, not true</b></span>  and you got your [I cannot control my vocabulary] handed to you for it.  <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>Ok, if you say so.</b></span><span style="color: #ffffff"> </span><span style="color: #ffffff"><b>(Lol)</b></span> So, how's that crow tasting? <span style="color: #ffffff"><b>Not even on the dinner plate yet,</b></span><span style="color: #ffffff"> </span><span style="color: #ffffff"><b>little buck-a-roo but you're welcome to keep trying to spoon feed it to me.</b></span> <span style="color: #000000"> <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span> </span> <span style="color: #ffffff"><i>edited for font</i></span> </blockquote> </blockquote>

[Grugg]

<b>> </b><b>And, for the record, <i>nobody</i> raises my children except </b><b>my wife and I.</b> That you're a teacher and that you believe that is actually quite scary. Children are definitely not products of <i>only</i> their parents. They are heavily influenced by their environment, their peers, their teachers, and even foreign policy. Everything plays a role in the development of your child, not just you and your wife. <b> > </b><b><i>Why in the world is this such a stretch for people like yourself to concieve?!</i></b> You don't get it. We understand your message. At least, <i>I</i> understand what you're saying. But I don't think your argument is well-founded. I disagree with you on various levels. I applaud you for good intentions, but I criticize you for short-sightedness. <b>> </b><b>I also prohibit them from drinking, smoking and using drugs</b> Unless you're chaining them up to a wall in your cellar, you can only encourage them to refrain from said activities. I'm guessing that your children are not teenagers yet. When they finally get that age, you might realize how little power over your children that you actually have. And that will be a scary day for you. They <i>will</i> experiment with booze. They <i>will</i> experiment with smoking. They <i>will</i> experiment with drugs. They <i>will </i>experiment with sex. That you've discouraged such activities is irrelevant. You've piqued their curiosity. Their environment and their peers have piqued their curiosity. They are people, too, and they <i>will </i>do whatever they please. <b>> ... </b><b>just that the developers maybe consider a different one from now on.</b> There are around 700 employees of SOE at the San Diego complex. What makes you think that not even one of those people have thought of what you did? I guarantee you that game developers are concerned with the social implications of their products and their decisions. After all, many game developers have families, too. There are many game developers who are also professional teachers. You can expect that game developers will act in the best interests of themselves, their families, their friends, and then eventually society.

[Kitsune]

Grugg, <b>I'M</b> the teacher, lol, not Rainking. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Short post, others have said it, I have said it, enough. Just answering a couple points. Rainking, I did mention how I had brought up my son. Oh, and I am a 56 years young Scot from Glasgow, not in my twenties, had 2 husbands, moved to England at 28, to America at 53 with my son who is now 22, and a grand young man. See where assumptions get you? And I said most of this in my original post. Yep I have a good few years of life experience under my belt. I have been a safe haven for kids with problems to come to and chat to before they go home and try to understand their parents' point of view as well as their own. Also a hot meal and a bed in emergencies when thrown out on the streets by said parents (well Step Dad usually) because of the Council tax that hit the parents with a bill for them living in the house when they hit 16 - a lovely UK tax indeed, that had many kids thrown out to fend for themselves at 16. I also brought up my son alone from when he was 7 years old because his father was beating me up and had just started to look at my son to do the same...So I DO know Life. And where do you get the Liberal from? Good grief, no! I believe we are all responsible for ourselves and our own kids when bringing them up. That's why I said nothing is responsible for the decisions we make but ourselves, not entertainment, games, advertising. Dip Ed, 3 years college, 2 years in the field, worked in a Forces Boarding school with the daughters of UK Servicemen who were first into the Falklands war - paratroopers. Yeah, I didn't buy my degree, I worked for it. I have seen sides of life when teaching that you cannot imagine. And for all that, I have an abounding belief in Humanity. Sorry, you can't write me off as some Liberal young thing. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Try a hard-nosed independent woman and mother who turned out a nice young man of 22 with the family Art Talent is bucketloads, (his Grandfather, my father, was an Art teacher and artist) he has a Navy girlfriend, who cares about people, who only occasionally drinks, never did drugs, doesn't smoke even if I do - and who obviously has as squeaky clean a past as I have to emigrate with me to the USA. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No Liberal upbringing, when he did wrong he got sent to his room to work out why it was wrong and why I was angry and explain it to me before he said Sorry. I never accepted a Sorry unless he knew why because then he wouldn't learn anything except I was angry, would he?  He grew up questioning everything, looking for the reasons, making no assumptions, and still does. Oh and I rarely drink either - it gives me migraines. But a good bottle of Moet.. mmm ... And you, sir, mentioned religion in your sig not me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I studied Religious History & Education as part of my Teaching course, at my level, and am fascinated by it still. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Nope, not christian. Have a good day. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kane]

<cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grugg, <b>I'M</b> the teacher, lol, not Rainking. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Short post, others have said it, I have said it, enough. Just answering a couple points. Rainking, I did mention how I had brought up my son. Oh, and I am a 56 years young Scot from Glasgow, not in my twenties, had 2 husbands, moved to England at 28, to America at 53 with my son who is now 22, and a grand young man. See where assumptions get you? And I said most of this in my original post. Yep I have a good few years of life experience under my belt. I have been a safe haven for kids with problems to come to and chat to before they go home and try to understand their parents' point of view as well as their own. Also a hot meal and a bed in emergencies when thrown out on the streets by said parents (well Step Dad usually) because of the Council tax that hit the parents with a bill for them living in the house when they hit 16 - a lovely UK tax indeed, that had many kids thrown out to fend for themselves at 16. I also brought up my son alone from when he was 7 years old because his father was beating me up and had just started to look at my son to do the same...So I DO know Life. And where do you get the Liberal from? Good grief, no! I believe we are all responsible for ourselves and our own kids when bringing them up. That's why I said nothing is responsible for the decisions we make but ourselves, not entertainment, games, advertising. Dip Ed, 3 years college, 2 years in the field, worked in a Forces Boarding school with the daughters of UK Servicemen who were first into the Falklands war - paratroopers. Yeah, I didn't buy my degree, I worked for it. I have seen sides of life when teaching that you cannot imagine. And for all that, I have an abounding belief in Humanity. Sorry, you can't write me off as some Liberal young thing. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Try a hard-nosed independent woman and mother who turned out a nice young man of 22 with the family Art Talent is bucketloads, (his Grandfather, my father, was an Art teacher and artist) he has a Navy girlfriend, who cares about people, who only occasionally drinks, never did drugs, doesn't smoke even if I do - and who obviously has as squeaky clean a past as I have to emigrate with me to the USA. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No Liberal upbringing, when he did wrong he got sent to his room to work out why it was wrong and why I was angry and explain it to me before he said Sorry. I never accepted a Sorry unless he knew why because then he wouldn't learn anything except I was angry, would he?  He grew up questioning everything, looking for the reasons, making no assumptions, and still does. Oh and I rarely drink either - it gives me migraines. But a good bottle of Moet.. mmm ... And you, sir, mentioned religion in your sig not me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I studied Religious History & Education as part of my Teaching course, at my level, and am fascinated by it still. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Nope, not christian. Have a good day. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Best post I've read this year.

[Grugg]

<cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grugg, <b>I'M</b> the teacher, lol, not Rainking.</blockquote>Notice that I rarely use the built-in quote functionality? The discussion is harder to follow when responses to another poster are contained within the same quote box.

[Soldross]

Give me a minute while I grab a beer and a bowl of shark-fin soup. Looks like I got a bit of reading to do in this thread.

[Rainkng]

<cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grugg, <b>I'M</b> the teacher, lol, not Rainking. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Short post, others have said it, I have said it, enough. Just answering a couple points. Rainking, I did mention how I had brought up my son. Oh, and I am a 56 years young Scot from Glasgow, not in my twenties, had 2 husbands, moved to England at 28, to America at 53 with my son who is now 22, and a grand young man. See where assumptions get you? And I said most of this in my original post. Yep I have a good few years of life experience under my belt. I have been a safe haven for kids with problems to come to and chat to before they go home and try to understand their parents' point of view as well as their own. Also a hot meal and a bed in emergencies when thrown out on the streets by said parents (well Step Dad usually) because of the Council tax that hit the parents with a bill for them living in the house when they hit 16 - a lovely UK tax indeed, that had many kids thrown out to fend for themselves at 16. I also brought up my son alone from when he was 7 years old because his father was beating me up and had just started to look at my son to do the same...So I DO know Life. And where do you get the Liberal from? Good grief, no! I believe we are all responsible for ourselves and our own kids when bringing them up. That's why I said nothing is responsible for the decisions we make but ourselves, not entertainment, games, advertising. Dip Ed, 3 years college, 2 years in the field, worked in a Forces Boarding school with the daughters of UK Servicemen who were first into the Falklands war - paratroopers. Yeah, I didn't buy my degree, I worked for it. I have seen sides of life when teaching that you cannot imagine. And for all that, I have an abounding belief in Humanity. Sorry, you can't write me off as some Liberal young thing. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Try a hard-nosed independent woman and mother who turned out a nice young man of 22 with the family Art Talent is bucketloads, (his Grandfather, my father, was an Art teacher and artist) he has a Navy girlfriend, who cares about people, who only occasionally drinks, never did drugs, doesn't smoke even if I do - and who obviously has as squeaky clean a past as I have to emigrate with me to the USA. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No Liberal upbringing, when he did wrong he got sent to his room to work out why it was wrong and why I was angry and explain it to me before he said Sorry. I never accepted a Sorry unless he knew why because then he wouldn't learn anything except I was angry, would he?  He grew up questioning everything, looking for the reasons, making no assumptions, and still does. Oh and I rarely drink either - it gives me migraines. But a good bottle of Moet.. mmm ... And you, sir, mentioned religion in your sig not me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I studied Religious History & Education as part of my Teaching course, at my level, and am fascinated by it still. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Nope, not christian. Have a good day. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>...... I don't know what to say. I humbly apologize for the way I attacked you out of defense and ignorance. You sound exactly like the kind of person I am usually honored to be associated with and I am deeply ashamed of the assumptions I made based on pride and bias toward you. I have to confess that after the beating I took yesterday my intentions were less than honorable today when I made my responses and I started treating this online "discussion" as more of a game.  Instead of doing what I originally told myself I would not I followed my ego down the path off the high road and regretfully responded with sarcasm and malice to some of the taunts and attacks that are innevitable in this kind of forum.  Your's, in my opinion, being the worst of my offenses. Although there is still much I feel I could debate intelligently with you and many others here I feel I've done a disservice to myself and my cause and anything further at this point would just be fodder for the bottom feeders, trolls and antagonists that thrive on these boards. Again, I apologize wholeheartedly for my behavior today.  Believe or not, you and I have <i>much</i> more in common than I care to divulge here and please know that the nature of my empathy for you and yours is true and sincere. For what it's worth, Nosa, that crow you mentioned earlier is hard to chew and tasting very bitter right now. Respectfully, KMM

[Kitsune]

No hard feelings from me, now you do know where I am coming from. Putting all that in seemed irrelevant when starting a Debate - and Debate is the Life Blood of what will be my new country, as well as any one claiming any degree of civilization. So you weren't to know. I do understand where you are coming from too. I grew up in the 60s at a school where girls were not 2nd class citizens, we were all expected to have our own careers, we were not expected just to marry and sit there and bring up passels of kids. BUT I was constantly exposed to TV, magazines, you name it where the height of achievement of a girl was just that.  Maybe that's why I read voraciously - Science Fiction mostly about possible futures - did I say I that at 8 years old I wanted to be a writer? I am, with 7 SF books out, and at least 10 Fantasy and SF short stories out in anthologies as well. I prepared me for independence, gave me an anchor in those conflicting times, like I tried to be for my son and his chums. So my apologies I said you had no back bone to be affected by advertising of alcohol. I was different, lord was I, and still am. I still don't fit in anywhere really. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Most men run a mile from me cos I am too intelligent, too independent, too everything.. which is why I ended up with 2 ex's who were both abusive in their own way. -sighs-- My fault, but they helped shape the person I am today who could move ... mmm.. several thousand miles and start a new life at 53, and whose son wanted to come with her and start his own new life here. So no regrets. I firmly believe we should all take responsibility for our own actions.  Someone else said it as well as me - we cannot Hot House our children - if we do they have no personal experience to use when they do leave the home, even at 14 at a school dance, they need their own experiences to teach them right from wrong - and though "Mum will kill me if I do that!" is good, what is better is "Geez, what morons getting drunk till they can't stand up then being afraid of their parents - how brave or cool is that behavior?" is far better. So if you haven't, do go do the Quest or drink from the barrel of someone who has (I am on Splitpaw as Kittsune so you can PM me there. I am on Pacific Time zone) and see how bad seeing 4 of everything is, how fuzzy the screen is - believe me it is not an encouragement. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> At least experience it for yourself if you haven't, then you can talk from a position of knowledge of the actual result of the quest. Oh and the effects last 30 minutes... not an incentive. As for the killing/violence aspect if the game, as a life long re-enactor and gamer, and martial artist, I know that if aggression is properly channeled into games and skills, there's usually no need to take it into Real Life, but it does give our children the guts to stand up for themselves when attacked, and did for me. My son was constantly getting beaten up by local louts in England because he was different - he's into the Gothic idea, now the Pirate theme. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> His Live Action Role Playing let him cope with it and defend himself. I still ended up sitting in ER for 3 hours in the middle of the night getting his skull X-rayed after one attack. That was just one reason we left the UK. So please don't be so quick to try and take all risk and experience out of the real world, or the Virtual world - the press is too eager to say the harm it does. I totally disagree - it does far, far more good in my opinion- in communication skills, co-operation, and socializing ... oh, too many ways to list. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And, importantly, is dm good fun as well <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Anyone tell me HOW to send a message to someone? Meant to send this to Rainking.. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But since I can't fathom it out, here's a Link to me so he can see I am what I say I am. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <a href="http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/</a>

[KerowynnKaotic]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote> I believe alcohol to be one of the most destructive forces we have on this planet.  *snipped* </blockquote><p>The most Destructive Force on this planet is the Human Species.  BAR NONE!</p><p>Humans can turn ANYTHING .. no matter how benign into an addiction that can easily ruin their lives and those around them if they allow it.  </p><p>Be it alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, sex, chocolate, big macs, coffee  ... games ...  ANYTHING!</p><p>The substance or object of their addiction isn't to be blamed.  The decision to continue down the route to destruction is the person's.  They, themselves, are to be blamed for their troubles.   Alcohol doesn't have a voice.  It doesn't tell the person to drink it till they are insensible.  They are holding their own gun to their heads and demanding they continue down that path. </p><p>Sad truth, however, is that our society is letting the person off the hook and blaming the in-animated object, when they really should be slapping the person silly for being so stupid and sterilizing that person so they may never bred anymore stupid people but .. /shrug .. </p><p>------ </p><p>Meanwhile, I am with the approx 80% of the posters in this thread who want their time back from reading this thread in the first place .. </p><p>Here I was thinking it was a complaint about the fact that we are getting another "keg" for our house instead of Cups!  Which are very much needed in the House to drink from our now (3) different kegs ... (Brell's Endless, The Flying Pig & the Crafted Keg) .. </p><p>Now, that would at least been worth a complaint in my point of view ... </p><p>*sigh* .. </p><p><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Kitsune]

I want tankards, as well as plates and cutlery. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> After all the Frost Fell food n drink we need it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[The-Plethora]

Please help <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I was playing super mario last night and this morning I stamped on my pet tortoise!

[Mantell]

<p>I agree with the OP. Drinking can be hazardous. For example, while running around Windstalker Village on my horse, totally blitzed looking for the flying pig, I took a header off a cliff and died.</p><p>Do you know how embarrassing it is for a level 70 character to die in Antonica?</p><p>Besides this quest I see no benefit to consuming alcohol in the game. In fact, drinking seems to be nothing but a hazard. (I'm referring to beverages flagged "alcohol" not the 20 bottles of wine I keep equipped at all times because it gives me better stats. Hmm... I wonder if that would work in real life.)</p><p>Everquest 2 has three warnings at startup I believe... violence, sexually suggestive text (which I have yet to find), and alcohol consumption. If you object to your children seeing any of those things, don't let them play the game. You don't have to do the quest if you personally object to that part.</p>

[Kitsune]

The Flirting emotes are quite saucy. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And Erollisi Day chat-ups had innuendos in em. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tokam]

Please remove Shark Fin Soup from the game

[Elessara]

<p>I don't usually weigh in on threads like these.  But I thought I'd share on this one as my personal views on getting drunk are rather strong.</p><p>I'm 29 years old.  I have had alcohol on exactly two occasions in my entire life.  Both times, I took a small sip of champagne on two different New Years' Eves.  The first time I wanted to see what it tasted like.  Ew!  The second time (a couple years later) I wanted to see if it tasted as bad as I remembered (it did).</p><p>It is my personal opinion that getting wasted is one of the most moronic things a person can do to themselves.  It does not bother me if people have the occasional drink or a glass of wine with dinner.  RESPONSIBLE drinking is something I don't have a problem with.</p><p>A friend of mine would tell me about all the times he had fun while drunk.  He would say wow that was the best time ever!  He was being serious.  Then he'd tell me about all of the stupid things he did while drunk before throwing up and passing out.  And then he'd say but it was so fun!  And again, he'd mean it.  All I could do was shake my head and say, You're an idiot.</p><p>Now that you know where I stand on this RL issue, let me tell you where I stand on the in game issue.</p><p>I have no problem with Brew Day.  It in no way influences my RL opinion on drunkenness.  It does not encourage me to go out and get drunk.</p><p>In Brell's Bar, no one is doing anything particularly "cool".  They are standing around talking or just standing.  In the basement people are fighting - and you can't even join in!  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>No fun there, either.</p><p>Getting drunk in game is not fun past the initial amusement factor of seeing 4 of everything.  After the first 15 seconds of me thinking, "Ha!  I see 4 of everything!" I wanted it to stop.  It is very difficult to play while your character is drunk.  Do you know how hard it is to click on something when you see 4 of them and they all keep shifting?  After 5 minutes it started to give me a headache.</p><p>I did the Brew Day quest last year and got a Brell's Everlasting Barrel and put it in my house.  Do you know how often I had my character take a drink from it?  Not once.</p><p>Nia~</p>

[Gargamel]

<p>The Original Poster's complaint is about as valid as the over-sensative ninnies that were demanding an option to turn off the Frostfell content because "it was offensive to them"</p><p>You do NOT have the right to not be offended in life.... grow up.</p>

[Sosum]

*edited PC is the death of reality. if your offended just go away. plzkthx Im a necro and easily offended by anything good.. please remove Qeynos.

[Grugg]

<cite>Elessara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The first time I wanted to see what it tasted like.  Ew! </p></blockquote>Every alcoholic beverage tastes different. Yeah, I know you don't understand that, but it's true. Chances are, you tasted drinks you didn't like, but then you wrongly generalized all alcohol as disgusting. My mom did that, too, but then she discovered Bailey's Irish Cream.

[TheWatersound]

This is an awesome event, & it IS a Roleplaying game, AND specifically states EVERY time you log in "suggestive themes & alchohal" is involved. Deal with it. & sorry to hear about the unresponsible kids who made their OWN choices to get drunk and drive.

[TheSleepyOne]

Mawie@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>*snip* from esrb.com EverQuest II Echoes of Faydwer Sony Online Entertainment T  Suggestive Themes,  Use of Alcohol, Violence Windows PC </blockquote> Not to derail the thread or anything... but this gave me a good laugh irl.  Suggestive Themes, use of alcohol, violence and Windows ....yeah <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Elessara]

<p>Well Grugg, its really not just that I generalized that most alcoholic beverages taste bad.  I understand they have different tastes.  A lot of times though, even the SMELL makes me go EW!  Like beer.  Cannot stand the smell of beer and that really doesn't inspire me to try it.  Now at the Rennaisance Faire I go to they sell various kinds of wine (its held on the grounds of a winery).  Some of the reds have a really nice smell  - I've just never been interested enough to actually try them.</p><p>Nia~</p>

[Littl]

I have strong feelings on this subject. Oversensitivity and overprotecting can be dangerous. We lose our freedoms, we lose our art, and our voice.  Too many parents look for a scapegoat. A PERSON DOES NOT GO OUT AND KILL SOMEONE, COMMIT SUICIDE, OR DO DRUGS JUST BY PLAYING A GAME OR WATCHING A MOVIE. Sorry for the caps but enthesis was needed. How many times have we seen parents blame musicians for their kids suicide? Could it be, could it be that just maybe they commited suicide because of a bad childhood, abuse, neglect, ect. ? If movies and games were an issue then everyone would be out on murdering sprees. I've seen it on the news where a parent blames a game, I wanted to say to  the person, could it be just maybe if you protected your kid from Kiddie [Removed for Content] Uncle, and talked to their kids that the kid would still be alive today? No it must be Grand Theft Auto Game you allowed him to play or the Marylin Manson music you gave him money to buy. /sarcasm Now I shouldn't tell you how to raise your kids but you did open that up a bit so I'll just offer some advice based on how I grew up in a strict home with parents that play the blame game. What I'm going to tell you I'm saying respectfully. If you decide to overprotect your kids and not allow them room for mistakes, they will never learn from them, they may resent you, and they may begin to lie much more to hide everything from you instead of being upfront and honest. What's going to happen when your not around to protect them? They didn't learn to protect themselves because you wouldn't let them. So they begin to make their mistakes to learn from late in life. It's great that you know alchohol can be dangerous, not enough people know that. You should talk to your kids about drugs. Don't just tell them not to do it, show them why and what it can do to you. Being extremely protective is bad, being extremely unprotective is also bad. What is best is a medium balance. Just telling them no, does nothing. You are going to have a lot  of problems if you are this strict with your kids .  I mean no offense but it is incredibly difficult to believe how an adult can think that a video game or music is all it takes for serious crime to happen. I can't believe that some people actually believe a game is responsible for a child's suicide. Instead of taking responsibility, they use a scapegoat. And their are Politicians and Police who believe this and that is very scary. Their was a woman who was fiddling with the radio while driving, she had her young kid in the drivers side seat. She was very irrisponsible. She crashed and the child was hurt badly. She sued the car manufacturer and got a new law made that kids must have a booster seat if they sit in the front seat! I don't remember the age but we aren't talking toddler here. So now even if we have an older child who is big enough to sit in the front he has to have a booster seat because this woman was not wanting to take responsibility. My friend's mom did the same thing. Except she was drinking coffee, spilled it, crashed, sued the manufacturer, and the kid was scared for life on his face. She caught him with a [Removed for Content] magazine once and said he had the devil in him. He commited suicide with a gun about 8 years ago. He was one of those super nice kids that were too nice, so nice that people made fun of him for it. He got his hands on a gun and you know the rest. The parents were even fighting at the funeral blaming everyone but themselves. The same thing happened with Ephedra. Some people who had asma used it and it helped. Some people abused it but people also abuse asprin and other over the counter drugs. One baseball player dies and even though he had health problems and abused drugs, the family blamed Ephedra and got it outlawed! Hmmm now why didn't this lady help the guy before he died? It's Ephedras fault that he abused the drug and had health problems? No one put a gun to his head. I used to take Ephedra it helped me breath a little better and gave me a little energy. I didn't abuse it. And now I can't use it anymore. Instead the doctor offered my redilin which is a harder drug then Ephedra and people even crush it to snort it. Here is some spoken word from Jello Biafra for you and what may happen if we keep restricting freedom more and more. <a href="http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/icet/shutupbehappy.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/icet...tupbehappy.html</a> Again, someone doesn't drink an ale ingame and then decide to go out and get drunk. People don't here a song and then just decide to kill themselves.

[Grugg]

<cite>Elessara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well Grugg, its really not just that I generalized that most alcoholic beverages taste bad.  I understand they have different tastes.  A lot of times though, even the SMELL makes me go EW!  Like beer.  Cannot stand the smell of beer and that really doesn't inspire me to try it.  Now at the Rennaisance Faire I go to they sell various kinds of wine (its held on the grounds of a winery).  Some of the reds have a really nice smell  - I've just never been interested enough to actually try them. </p></blockquote>You're still overgeneralizing. Beer is alcohol. Wine is alcohol. There are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of types of beers and wines. You're still projecting your bad experiences onto many, many other experiences that you are refusing to have. To me, that's just a sad way to live. The human experience is important. Try everything, do everything. You have one life to live. One chance to experience everything the world has to offer. Don't close your eyes to an entire range of experiences just because of a few sour grapes.

[Rabid-Othmir]

<cite>Grugg wrote:</cite><blockquote>Elessara wrote: Try everything, do everything. </blockquote>In that case it is time for me to try murder.

[hansomepete]

<p>As a parent myself i do see where you are comming from. So i will try to remain as calm as possible considering my opinion of your "kind" cheeses me off to no end. </p><p>GET A LIFE.</p>

[Elessara]

<p>Really Grugg, those were simply a couple of examples as I didn't want to give myself carpal going down the entire list of every single acoholic beverage that exists in the known world.  Its also nice to know someone thinks I'm sad because I choose not to drink alcohol.  I suppose you also think I'm sad because I don't smoke or do drugs and never have?  Because, as you say, one should try everything and do everything.  Hmm, I've never killed anyone ... time to go try that.  I've never stolen so I'll have to go try that too.  I have lied before, so I can check that one off my list.  I've never vandalized anyone's property or burned down a house or tortured small animals.  I've never committed insurance fraud ... or even fraud of any kind.  Oh dear, this list is getting rather long - so many things to do!  I've never stolen a friend's boyfriend (or husband).  I've never committed adultery but then I'm not married (never have been) - gah!  Another thing to go do!</p><p>Sorry for the excessive sarcasm, but (to paraphrase) that  "try everything, do everything or you'll have a sad life" bit was a LITTLE silly.</p><p>And this has gotten far, far off topic.  Which is something else I try not to do on forums.  Guess I can remove that one from my list!</p><p>Nia~</p>

[DngrMou]

<cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please remove Shark Fin Soup from the game</blockquote><p> And replace it with Sea Otter Souffle.  Ok, thanks.</p><p><hic></p>

[Wytie]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote>To whom it may concern, I am writing this not only as a long-time player of this game but also as an adult and parent. Today I zoned into the new portal in Antonica to see what the event was like for the up-coming holiday weekend and found myself in a bar surrounded by many drunken NPC's and a bartender who gave me a quest that ultimately rewarded me with a keg that I could put in my player house and, as one player in chat put it; "get drunk whenever I wanted to." Now, understand that I am not by <i>any </i>stretch of the imagination a prude or person who has not partaken in the consumption of alcohol in all it's various forms.  In fact, I'd have to say just the opposite.  I've done more than my share of drinking and reaped all the "rewards" associated with doing so. However, in a day and age where we continually see how devastating the consumption and abuse of alcohol can be in any number of given lives I have to question the thinking that went on behind the instituting of this event.  I know there are warnings provided before any person ever enters the land of EverQuest about the use of alcohol in game and I think that's fine.  I also understand how the consumption of ales and spirits play an integral part in the emersion into the game world and, again, I think that's great.  I do, however, take umbrage as a parent and health care provider who has seen <b>A LOT</b> of the downsides to drinking when, in celebration of an up-coming holiday, the developers specifically <i>add</i> content that not only puts the making and consuming of alcohol as the major plot point but actually rewards the player with an item that they can use over-and-over again to obtain in-game inebriation. Please, before writing me off as some sort of "killjoy," or lazy parent who want someone else to be responsible for raising his kids (and for the record; none of mine play) or some ultra-conservative idiot that's just out to cause trouble over something that appears to be a completely benign aspect of an imaginary world, hear me out for just a few moments more. I believe alcohol to be one of the most destructive forces we have on this planet.  When you stop and consider how many lives are shattered by it's use and abuse every year the statistics can be overwhelming.  The illnesses and health complications directly related to drinking are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg when speaking in terms of negative impacts.  But, don't forget about the lost jobs, ruined marriges, abused children, broken families and people being killed all in the name of "having a little fun."  Which is exactly what I was told today in game by a number of people when I made a comment about alcohol maybe not being the best form of reward for the commitment involved in helping characters celebrate St Patrick's Day in Norrath.  That I should just "shut up and let people have their fun." (Yes, that was also a quote). About a month ago five children - teenagers - were killed and three more permanently injured in an accident here where I live.  A woman who was too drunk to drive allowed <b>eight</b> kids (who had also been drinking) to pile into her five-passenger car for a ride home but instead slammed into a light pole at a high rate of speed.  Although I wasn't there, nor do I know any of the victims or their families personally, I can testify to the devastating impact this tragedy has had on the community.  And, I can't even begin to imagine what the poor parents of those kids must be feeling at a time of year when life is begining anew all around us and teens everywhere are graduating 8th grade and high school.  I'm sure many - if not all - off you reading this can think of at least one similar situation near where you live or, God forbid, have lived through a similar tragedy yourselves. I know this is just a game.  I really and truly do.  And, I love playing and being a part of it.  I also want you to know I am not a  hypocrit but instead someone who has seen - often times first hand - the destruction that can occur because of the abuse of something that's just supposed to be "fun."  Using and abusing alcohol is <i>not</i> a game.  At least not to me.  And, I think we, as responsible adults and role models need to remember that and be careful when sending the message that it's an OK form of recreation - even if the message is unintentional. I'll step down off my soapbox now and apologize ahead of time for offending anyone with my posting on this topic.  But, when I heard the arguments in chat today defending not only this quest (which, I'm sure, is fun in and of itself) but it's very premise I couldn't help but feel compelled to post something in hopes of it not falling deaf on at least a few pair of ears. Thank you for your time and consideration. FF/PM KMM </blockquote><p>ok your joking right....   hummm i guess stabing someone repetedly it ok tho huh ya know since crime rate is so high in some areas maybe we should sensor weapons for pillows for fear that it might provoke more crime....  blablablablablablabla thats basicly what i heard.</p><p>You are entitled to your opinion keep it, but for the love of god dont pull some moral BS this game is VERY VERY violent you gona cry about thaat toooooo...    </p>

[Aubalys]

<p>OK, let me just ask, have you EVER read the EULA that you have to agree to EVERY TIME you log in?  It states in no uncertain terms that this game is intended for adults, and the only children allowed to play are those whose parents allow them to play.  </p><p>Therefore, the use of alcohol is in no way offensive, unethical, or anything along those lines.  If you have a problem with your child seeing it, dont let them play the game...</p><p>I, as a parent have no problem with my child seeing it, because I have thoroughly explained that THIS IS A GAME to my children.  They understand that it is no more acceptable for them to go out and get drunk than it is to take a sword and go attack people with it, which is an even more prominent part of this game.  (Which, apparently, you do not find offensive for your child to see.....)</p><p>OK, enough of me...  </p>

[Jai]

<cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You do NOT have the right to not be offended in life  </p></blockquote>QFE! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I don't want my time back. This is getting me through the work day! Please continue and don't mind the ratonga in the corner. *reaches for more popcorn*

[Woenk1]

Although I can partly agree that alcohol is dangerous and the "fun of drinking" should not be advertised in any form to children, I must disagree with it within the game. It is part of the lore and the rating of the game is adequate for the intended user base. We even have a skill of "alcohol tolerance" to level, not that it really does much but it has been there all the time. Once again, maybe one should not forget, that it is an interanational game, here in Germany you are legally allowed to drink beer with an age of 16 and from the statistic we have not more problems with alcohol than the states.

[Rainkng]

Omg.  ([Removed for Content])  Logged on for the first time in more than a week to check the update notes and thought I'd take a look over here to see what the remainder of some of you geniuses posted and found 3 more pages of hot air.  (Lol) You people really need to put some effort into pulling your heads out of your butts!  (Lol) I'm not stupid - I know what the EULA says.   I know that one event in a single game is not going to make someone go out and become an alcoholic.  I am predominantly liberal at heart and completely support the ability to do/say/see/play/etc. whatever we please as long as it doesn't harm someone else. But holy "I love to hear myself talk" Batman I honestly believe the majority of you are complete morons that didn't bother to read what I wrote or are just too [Removed for Content] self-absorbed and/or <i>dim</i> to comprehend what it is I was trying to convey!  Either that or your threatened and insecure about how you define who and what you are.  Or, both, maybe.  I don't know.  (Lol) Seriously, I'm glad so many of you "wasted your time" reading this thread.  I hope it hurt.  Because, at this point, I would take emense satisfaction in knowing it did so.  Nobody made you read this and if you feel your time was wasted then it's your own dumb fault for continuing to do so and then take the time to post. Let me ask you this - did the majority of you bother to read what many of the other posts said?  I'm thinking "No" because you're all saying the same [Removed for Content] thing and sounding like a broken record.   Oh... wait.  Each one of your <i>individual</i> posts saying - for the most part - exactly what the majority of the other posts said means even more because it's coming from you!   Get over yourselves. Seriously. Ok, just so I'm clear, because I simply made a <b>suggestion</b> to <i>consider</i> something in a game I'm an uptight, overtly conservative, hypocrit who can't differentiate between leisure activities and real life and is calling for a ban on alcohol in game because I want other people to raise my children while I keep trying to over-protect them.  That about cover it? Well, most of the bile all you Defenders of Freedom coughed up was based on your assumptions and you all know how those tend to work out.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But, I sincerely hope you guys atl least feel better for having stood up and staved off the onslaught of one man's attempt to censor a game most people have never even heard of!  (/salute!)   Lol God, I love how brave and important people become when they're sitting around their house or office protected by the anonymity of the internet. (Lol) For the record, <b><i>nothing</i></b> a single one of you said has had an effect on what I feel based on my original post.  And, I mean that.  I stand by my suggestion and the argument to support it.  How's <i>that</i> for wasting your time? Cheers!

[Littleflame]

Aww man. Ran out of popcorn. *sips on her beer*

[MullenSkywatcher]

<cite>Rainkng wrote:</cite><blockquote>Omg.  ([Removed for Content])  Logged on for the first time in more than a week to check the update notes and thought I'd take a look over here to see what the remainder of some of you geniuses posted and found 3 more pages of hot air.  (Lol) You people really need to put some effort into pulling your heads out of your butts!  (Lol) I'm not stupid - I know what the EULA says.   I know that one event in a single game is not going to make someone go out and become an alcoholic.  I am predominantly liberal at heart and completely support the ability to do/say/see/play/etc. whatever we please as long as it doesn't harm someone else. But holy "I love to hear myself talk" Batman I honestly believe the majority of you are complete morons that didn't bother to read what I wrote or are just too [I cannot control my vocabulary] self-absorbed and/or <i>dim</i> to comprehend what it is I was trying to convey!  Either that or your threatened and insecure about how you define who and what you are.  Or, both, maybe.  I don't know.  (Lol) Seriously, I'm glad so many of you "wasted your time" reading this thread.  I hope it hurt.  Because, at this point, I would take emense satisfaction in knowing it did so.  Nobody made you read this and if you feel your time was wasted then it's your own dumb fault for continuing to do so and then take the time to post. Let me ask you this - did the majority of you bother to read what many of the other posts said?  I'm thinking "No" because you're all saying the same [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing and sounding like a broken record.   Oh... wait.  Each one of your <i>individual</i> posts saying - for the most part - exactly what the majority of the other posts said means even more because it's coming from you!   Get over yourselves. Seriously. Ok, just so I'm clear, because I simply made a <b>suggestion</b> to <i>consider</i> something in a game I'm an uptight, overtly conservative, hypocrit who can't differentiate between leisure activities and real life and is calling for a ban on alcohol in game because I want other people to raise my children while I keep trying to over-protect them.  That about cover it? Well, most of the bile all you Defenders of Freedom coughed up was based on your assumptions and you all know how those tend to work out.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But, I sincerely hope you guys atl least feel better for having stood up and staved off the onslaught of one man's attempt to censor a game most people have never even heard of!  (/salute!)   Lol God, I love how brave and important people become when they're sitting around their house or office protected by the anonymity of the internet. (Lol) For the record, <b><i>nothing</i></b> a single one of you said has had an effect on what I feel based on my original post.  And, I mean that.  I stand by my suggestion and the argument to support it.  How's <i>that</i> for wasting your time? Cheers! </blockquote>Whatever your original intentions were, you've relegated yourself to Troll status with this post.  The opposition to your suggestion was never meant to change your viewpoint (impossible) but rather prevent the developers from thinking that you spoke for the community at large.  You're not the first person to get roughed up on the forums.  Grieve and move on. As a side note, I'm typing this from work, I don't consider it a waste of my time at all.  Either morally or financially.

[Echgar]

I think it is time to bring this thread to a close.  The insults being flung in both directions are pretty unnecessary.