Where do reangers stand?

[Magnis]

<p>I know the rouges are mainly debuffs...</p><p>the bards are buffs..</p><p>are predators  Damage?</p><p>kinda like a guardian is THE tank, Templars are considered more healer..</p><p>Are rangers considered mostly damage consintrated?</p>

[Sham07]

Rangers are pure dps. Theres hardly any utility, and that little bit isnt realy worth mentioning raid-wise. In groups we bring in some because with raincaller now and some stun poisons (and stun gear) rangers can almost keep a mob perma stunned. We are T1 dps thou and hell of a lot fun. A well played ranger can maintain 2k+ dps in almost every fight with the right setup, even without uber EoF gear or top end bow.

[Pezz]

<cite>Sham07 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers are pure dps. Theres hardly any utility, and <span style="color: #cc0000">that little bit isnt realy worth mentioning raid-wise</span>. In groups we bring in some because with raincaller now and some stun poisons (and stun gear) rangers can almost keep a mob perma stunned. We are T1 dps thou and hell of a lot fun. A well played ranger can maintain 2k+ dps in almost every fight with the right setup, even without uber EoF gear or top end bow. </blockquote><p> Ya that is where rangers are weak at (in raids). I'm trying to find where and the hell did my dps go. I don't even make the 10 top in the parse and I do have some nice stuff. Everyone is getting 1.5k dps.</p><p>Don't u think that we should come near what the assassin's dps is or a little less. An assassin can do 2k+ dps ez.</p>

[Magnis]

<p>In a perfect world the rangers would (are ) considered the DPS scout? I'm asking because have heard many many claims that brigs and swashies are usually top on raid DPS.  Im hoping that DPS is main for rangers on all tiers and all instances (meaning raids, groups and solo wise.) </p><p> Thank You</p>

[Malchore]

<p>Depends if that group (or raid) was fighting a lot of mobs at once.  Rogues can push large DPS numbers because of their Area Effect abilities.  Rangers are single-target, and our AE abilities have limitations.</p><p>I would gladly exchange Leg Shot or Culling the Heard for another blue AE ability.</p>

[Pezz]

I can only go off the raids i have been to and i never seen a ranger hit the top of a parse yet.  I usually see assassin, nerco/conj, wiz, and rogues at the top. But like i said before that I personally never seen a ranger at the top of the parse in pvp or pve raids. 

[Kradun]

As a ranger on the PvP server I'm usuall thrown in the trashy group when the right raid cannot form up.  By trashy I mean that I get minimal benefit from the group for my DPS. But even in a trashy group i can still parse 1.3k consistently and up to 1.7k on single target mobs. I believe that DPS as a ranger is about progression, timing, and reading what the rest of the rad around you is doing.  And most importantly understand each and everyone of your CA's and reinventing them for other uses. I like to stand in the sweet spot and progress MY CA's timed with group temp buffs(if you happen to be in a group that can give u good DPS oriented temp buffs.)  It's really complex the way I do things, but I organize my CA's between can be done on the move and cannot be done on the move, because I Joust. One thing that I have found to help tremendously is... 5 seconds before dispatch--> Honed Reflexes, Killing Instinct, Focus Aim.   Its awsome seeing the high auto attack numbers using a bow of flapping wing or raincaller.(my bows suck = /). I really enjoy talking(not typing) about playing the ranger and finding ways to exploit its weaknesses into strengths.  So you can catch me on ventrilo some time. Visit the-darkhand.com for the ventrilo information. <span style="font-size: medium"><b>As far as relevancy to the original post( I digressed), I think rangers still need some tweaking to be able to keep up with our predator counterpart and to beat out our rogue cousins. </b></span>

[TerriBlades]

<cite>Kradun wrote:</cite><blockquote> <b><span style="font-size: small">As far as relevancy to the original post( I digressed), I think rangers still need some tweaking to be able to keep up with our predator counterpart and to beat out our rogue cousins. </span></b> </blockquote><p> And you'd be very very wrong about that. I dont have any problems keeping up with, or ahead of assassins and brigands... Swashys... well it depends on if they know how to play(personally I think they are a bit borked atm). Rangers dont need any tweaking, DPS wise, we are fine the way we are.</p><p>Sanser, if you are looking for the end all be all highest DPSing scout class, then you are looking at the classes for all the wrong reasons. You should first be looking for something you are going to enjoy playing, and heres why. I dont care what class you pick, out the gate, you wont parse anywhere near the top. Gear isnt going to magically fall out of the sky because you need to to compete. Im also sure that many a ranger here will tell you how much effort they had to put into getting some of the more needed gear to make them effective at their jobs. Yes, gearing up any class is going to be a [Removed for Content], but as a ranger, sometimes it seems like twice the amount of work to play at the same level as assassins and rogues.</p><p>If DPS is all you are worried about, let me point you in the direction of Warlocks. Well at least ours does insane damage.</p>

[Sham07]

Rangers got a lot of love with EoF and when we came to that point where i was thinking wer "fixed" we got even more love with the arrows and the 91dr bow from unrest (whichs only downside is that it is 6sek). A ranger requires some skill to play to parse high. Sure ull need to get your spells and some +skill/proc/fabled items cant hurt either.... just like for any other class u have to invest time and effort into learning and gearing ur char. A ranger is independent. Give him a dps mod in the group and maybe some crit% from a bard but thats about all we need. With acrylia ring u get ur haste to 90+. Ya wont "need" cob or agitate since its not much use from a bow. U dont need to joust in and out to maintain dps..... u dont even need resists or heals if u can max range a mob at 50m. U dont need power regen if u got mental breech. U can parse top area in almost every situation. And ull never peel due to primal, elude and surveil. Once u got descend gear get some procs, spec to int line and work on your attack sequences and combat openings to see which gives u most damage in differend situations. It still is a pain to get a decend bow i admit but the ammo prob seems to be (or is getting) solved atm with the crafted stuff. My personal guess is that a fully mastered and high end bow (Matron, Mayong, Wuoshi bows) geared ranger should be able to lead every zonewide parse. This is just a guess since im not yet at that point but i see how im doing now and how much space there is still to improve.

[Prandtl]

I usually stand about 5 meters behind the mob..

[Kradun]

Well, I'm pretty sure TerriBlades and myself are both correct even though we stand on two different ends of this fence.  I play on the PvP server.  Itemization and AA's are very different.  VERY DIFFERENT.  AA's must be balanced between DPS and survivability.  Look at other classes in terms of PvP/PvP-doing PvE rangers could use a little love in terms of DPS.  My guild is mostly specced out to pvp, save for bards(bladedance).   This makes my overall perception of DPS very different.  And this may be the reason why my reasoning seems a little off in the light of blue PvE.  I don't know though, I just may be angsty that good rogues parse above and below me all the time.  And a crappy rogue with his cooldowns will be right on my tail on raid parses. 

[TerriBlades]

<cite>Prandtl wrote:</cite><blockquote>I usually stand about 5 meters behind the mob..</blockquote><p>...</p><p>Kradun, you're probably right. I might reconsider how I spec'd my AAs if I was playing on a PvP server. I had not taken into account PvP becasue the OP seems to want a scout that deals tier 0 damage (think DoF rangers). If thats all he wants, hes not going to be happy with any class he picks up.</p><p>edit: I gotta learn to proof read.</p>

[Gungo]

Pezz@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Sham07 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers are pure dps. Theres hardly any utility, and <span style="color: #cc0000">that little bit isnt realy worth mentioning raid-wise</span>. In groups we bring in some because with raincaller now and some stun poisons (and stun gear) rangers can almost keep a mob perma stunned. We are T1 dps thou and hell of a lot fun. A well played ranger can maintain 2k+ dps in almost every fight with the right setup, even without uber EoF gear or top end bow. </blockquote><p> Ya that is where rangers are weak at (in raids). I'm trying to find where and the hell did my dps go. I don't even make the 10 top in the parse and I do have some nice stuff. Everyone is getting 1.5k dps.</p><p>Don't u think that we should come near what the assassin's dps is or a little less. An assassin can do 2k+ dps ez.</p></blockquote> You should be doing 2k dps liek the poster above you stated. Either your not using poisens or poor arrows. Brigands get a bad rap. Just because they are akin to swashies does not mean they produce swashy dps. Brigs at most can kick out around ~2k. Assassins and rangers equally geared produce above 2k. Assassins produce just as much dps as an equally geared ranger. You really can't use assassins as a crutch anymore. swashies and necros well thats a different story.

[Kokus]

Gungo@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Pezz@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Sham07 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers are pure dps. Theres hardly any utility, and <span style="color: #cc0000">that little bit isnt realy worth mentioning raid-wise</span>. In groups we bring in some because with raincaller now and some stun poisons (and stun gear) rangers can almost keep a mob perma stunned. We are T1 dps thou and hell of a lot fun. A well played ranger can maintain 2k+ dps in almost every fight with the right setup, even without uber EoF gear or top end bow. </blockquote><p> Ya that is where rangers are weak at (in raids). I'm trying to find where and the hell did my dps go. I don't even make the 10 top in the parse and I do have some nice stuff. Everyone is getting 1.5k dps.</p><p>Don't u think that we should come near what the assassin's dps is or a little less. An assassin can do 2k+ dps ez.</p></blockquote> You should be doing 2k dps liek the poster above you stated. Either your not using poisens or poor arrows. Brigands get a bad rap. Just because they are akin to swashies does not mean they produce swashy dps. Brigs at most can kick out around ~2k. Assassins and rangers equally geared produce above 2k. Assassins produce just as much dps as an equally geared ranger. You really can't use assassins as a crutch anymore. swashies and necros well thats a different story. </blockquote><p>Gungo pretty much has it right..  The only thing I'd like to add is a response to the comment from the original quoted poster.  Assassins don't do 2k+ dps 'ez'</p><p>I don't know any other class that has to work as hard as we do to make the parse.  Think it's that easy? switch with an assassin for a raid.  It's an eye opener.  You'll spend a large portion of your time moving around, constantly stealthing and positioning through stealth for specific attacks, jumping into and out of the middle.  It's hard constant work, more so than I think you realize. </p>

[Pezz]

Elvannshalee@Oasis wrote: <blockquote>Gungo@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Pezz@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Sham07 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers are pure dps. Theres hardly any utility, and <span style="color: #cc0000">that little bit isnt realy worth mentioning raid-wise</span>. In groups we bring in some because with raincaller now and some stun poisons (and stun gear) rangers can almost keep a mob perma stunned. We are T1 dps thou and hell of a lot fun. A well played ranger can maintain 2k+ dps in almost every fight with the right setup, even without uber EoF gear or top end bow. </blockquote><p> Ya that is where rangers are weak at (in raids). I'm trying to find where and the hell did my dps go. I don't even make the 10 top in the parse and I do have some nice stuff. Everyone is getting 1.5k dps.</p><p>Don't u think that we should come near what the assassin's dps is or a little less. An assassin can do 2k+ dps ez.</p></blockquote> You should be doing 2k dps liek the poster above you stated. Either your not using poisens or poor arrows. Brigands get a bad rap. Just because they are akin to swashies does not mean they produce swashy dps. Brigs at most can kick out around ~2k. Assassins and rangers equally geared produce above 2k. Assassins produce just as much dps as an equally geared ranger. You really can't use assassins as a crutch anymore. swashies and necros well thats a different story. </blockquote><p>Gungo pretty much has it right..  The only thing I'd like to add is a response to the comment from the original quoted poster.  Assassins don't do 2k+ dps 'ez'</p><p>I don't know any other class that has to work as hard as we do to make the parse.  Think it's that easy? switch with an assassin for a raid.  It's an eye opener.  You'll spend a large portion of your time moving around, constantly stealthing and positioning through stealth for specific attacks, jumping into and out of the middle.  It's hard constant work, more so than I think you realize. </p></blockquote>I was an assassin that is why i'm here trying to learn the ranger class.

[Gungo]

Elvannshalee@Oasis wrote: <blockquote>Gungo@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Pezz@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Sham07 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers are pure dps. Theres hardly any utility, and <span style="color: #cc0000">that little bit isnt realy worth mentioning raid-wise</span>. In groups we bring in some because with raincaller now and some stun poisons (and stun gear) rangers can almost keep a mob perma stunned. We are T1 dps thou and hell of a lot fun. A well played ranger can maintain 2k+ dps in almost every fight with the right setup, even without uber EoF gear or top end bow. </blockquote><p> Ya that is where rangers are weak at (in raids). I'm trying to find where and the hell did my dps go. I don't even make the 10 top in the parse and I do have some nice stuff. Everyone is getting 1.5k dps.</p><p>Don't u think that we should come near what the assassin's dps is or a little less. An assassin can do 2k+ dps ez.</p></blockquote> You should be doing 2k dps liek the poster above you stated. Either your not using poisens or poor arrows. Brigands get a bad rap. Just because they are akin to swashies does not mean they produce swashy dps. Brigs at most can kick out around ~2k. Assassins and rangers equally geared produce above 2k. Assassins produce just as much dps as an equally geared ranger. You really can't use assassins as a crutch anymore. swashies and necros well thats a different story. </blockquote><p>Gungo pretty much has it right..  The only thing I'd like to add is a response to the comment from the original quoted poster.  Assassins don't do 2k+ dps 'ez'</p><p>I don't know any other class that has to work as hard as we do to make the parse.  Think it's that easy? switch with an assassin for a raid.  It's an eye opener.  You'll spend a large portion of your time moving around, constantly stealthing and positioning through stealth for specific attacks, jumping into and out of the middle.  It's hard constant work, more so than I think you realize. </p></blockquote>Yeah i never claimed playing an assassin was easy. While 2 good fabled duel wields are hard to come by thats the least of assasin worry. The constant positional attacks. Many of which require stealth that continously breaks becasue of odd combinations of trigger problems such as apply poisen or templar reactives. Makes playing an assassin often frustrating and difficult. But the potential for 2k+ dps is always there and while individual issues such as breaking invis hinder an assassin's dps. It makes those assassins who can and do break those numbers that much better of a player who doesn't and sadly in the case of assassins the later is alot more common then the former.  

[Kokus]

<p>Once again Gungo, you have it right on.</p><p>Here's something I've seen frequently over the last years.</p><p>Person notices assassin topping parses</p><p>Person rolls an assassin</p><p>Person levels to 70</p><p>Person doesn't top parses</p><p>Person starts a new character again.</p>

[Jayad]

Having played both in raids, I can tell you the assassin is a lot more work. But the ranger has to work pretty hard too. It's not night and day. One thing about the ranger is you really need your tank to position mobs right. As an assassin, you're dancing around the mobs all the time. Pick your poison. I can tell you our top ranger in the guild parses equal to me when we both have good buffs, and I usually am in the 2000-2500 range. (Sometimes lower, sometimes higher) It's absolutely critical to a ranger to get one of the best bows and the rare ammo. Huge, huge difference. When I got the best DWs I could get, I went up a big notch as an assassin, but it's smaller than the boost a ranger will get from the top bows and rare ammo. To do really good dps you also need the right buffers. Without buffs there is a point where you can go no further and it's far below your potential.