People Stealing Nameds.

[Stevil_Firebrand]

<p>Something has got to be done about this.</p><p> I am sick of carving my way to a named and having someone come up from behind and taking the named whilst I take the last mobs. It's just disgusting. I'm pig sick of being a victim of this and am starting to think about cancelling my account because of it. I've been grouped in Fallen Gate and people have took nameds after we've cleared the way and today I was in Thundering Steppes killing the place holders for Bloodtalon for 2 hours and a group turns up kills a couple of non-PH griffons and then kills Bloodtalon.</p><p>How long am I going to wait for the next spawn? Who's going to come steal it the next time?</p><p>There needs to be a criteria for killing nameds that needs to be introduced. You should have to have killed X amount of something and X amount of something else before you can kill them to stop greedy players coming and taking the prize of your hard work. Only when we establish proper ownership will this be fair.</p><p>If something like this happened then it may be possible solution to prevent botting and camping.</p>

[Mareth]

<i>"If something like this happened then it may be possible solution to prevent botting and camping." </i>Wait, what?

[Stevil_Firebrand]

<p>Well if you had to kill 5 of type x mob and 7 of type y mobs before you could kill John Barnes ^^^ Heroic, you wouldn't be able to camp the last room where the named spawns as once you'd killed him you'd have to kill the required mobs again. </p><p>Similarly you wouldn't be able to script a bot to get the required elements before the bot auto-attacked the named.</p><p>This is not about making it more difficult, the requirements could be the mobs you have to kill on your way through the dungeon before you naturally get to the named but it prevents people sneaking up behind you and taking what you worked hard for without putting the effort in.</p>

[Ilirith]

erm, if a bot can attack a named, then it can for gods sake also check a few variables first to see if it have killed the required mobs... Mind you that those who make the bots, they arent [Removed for Content] like most of those who just use em, those who make em are usually rather intelligent as well as they know what they are doing. Would be more of a hassle for SOE to implement than a coder to adapt too. //Elimia

[Stevil_Firebrand]

<p>But this isn't really about botting... it's about people who are playing the game stealing named mobs from other players.</p><p>I couldn't lower myself to do that.</p><p>EDIT: In fact I completely disagree with you. I've never seen a bot running round a dungeon before. ~hey are normally dumped where they need to be and set to kill what they have to. It would be a lot easier to code a requirement to kill before a named than it would to code a bot to kill trash mobs over and over before killing a named and then have it go kill trash mobs again.</p>

[Ilirith]

There are many more than you think that are botting, as you said, you never see botters running around.. well there you just said it... How do you know that they werent botters? i doubt you talked with all of em, but you just assume they werent because there are tons of botters that just dump their toons somewhere to repeatively kill some mobs. again, yes this aren't about botting, but the OP's suggestion did also have the, "<b>might</b> prevent botting and camping". Just my two cent/copper/isk/etc. //Elimia {EDIT} Don't you think there are any Harvesting bots either? They would have to run around and harvest the nodes, would be the same thing with killing trash mobs prior to nameds. {/EDIT}

[Stevil_Firebrand]

<p>So should we abandon all ideas because botters could 'easy code' around everything?</p>

[Ilirith]

No, i never said that, nor would i want that. But the OP's suggestion would be more of a hassle ( or just as big a hassle ) as it would be for the coders to adapt their bot to the new requirements. As well as, personally i would find it _very_ annoying having to kill x of y etc. myself i dont have a big problem with nameds getting stolen, except from botters, because people,atleast on my server ( Runnyeye ) mostly have somewhat common sense and most of them actually _ask_ if you need the named or if you are farming it, where they might then ask to get the kill if they need it and you were just farming. //Elimia

[Norrsken]

<cite>Stevil_Firebrand wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So should we abandon all ideas because botters could 'easy code' around everything?</p></blockquote>Nah, just come up with ideas that arent easily circumvented. Making fixes that just take a coffe break to circumvent isnt effective. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Savanja]

Unfortunately, MMOs depend on the honesty and kindness of other players.  And just like IRL, there are jerks out there that are totally okay with swooping in on another group's coattails and taking what they need. It is a shame, but I consider it one of the typicals of this kind of gaming.

[Ganlu]

As far as I know, the TOS of the game does not specify any "rights" to mobs, that's why there's an encounter locking system.  Whoever tags the mob first, gets the kill/loot.  Now, as a rule I never kill a named even in the same room as another group that seem to be making their way toward it, and always ask if others need a quest update. Not all players are like this though, and they're not breaking any rules.  If you see another group that looks like they're ready to pounce on your named, you can always root/mez the named or something to lock it to you while you finish the stuff around it.  If someone does steal a named from me (i.e., they kill it after I've cleared the way to it), I make sure to let them know that I don't consider what they did good "sportsmanship" (for lack of a better word), and many times they will offer apologies or have misunderstood because they were coming from another direction.

[Moonblosso]

Like Ilirith, I don't really have a problem with that on my server (Splitpaw) - people are generally polite and won't steal your mob, will ask you first, or ask you join up with you.  It just plain ole good manners!!

[Laoch69]

<p>You are talking about "rights" to a  publicly contested named in a wide open zone like Thundering steppes.  </p><p> If you don't want something "stolen" from you, then a) lock your encounters and b) attack the named before someone else does.</p><p>If that doesn't work, then don't worry about it and move on.</p>

[Zodiak]

For the most part in Everquest 2 the people you come across are going to be kind and generous people.  There are rotten apples in game though, just like in RL.  Its something you have to deal with when you play an MMO over a single player RPG. =/ 

[Dasein]

Quest update mobs should be triggered in some manner, This trigger  could be as simple as moving through an area or involve multiple steps and items. If this means these mobs do not drop loot or give XP, that's fine.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Stevil_Firebrand wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Something has got to be done about this.</p></blockquote> Bah! Just kill them! You can do that where I come from. <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Pendant]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quest update mobs should be triggered in some manner, This trigger  could be as simple as moving through an area or involve multiple steps and items. If this means these mobs do not drop loot or give XP, that's fine. </blockquote><p> /agree</p><p>The big problem here is the aggravation factor: we're comparing two different playstyles: the quester and the looter. Looter thinks it's fine to grab the mob because 'contested mobs are a part of the game': quester feels cheated because the looter hasn't worked for it (either by killing stuff en-route or by hours of camping awaiting a spawn). </p><p>In some cases you can have both parties being 'questers' and BOTH ending up with a bad taste in the mouth over the experience, because someone has to lose. Example: Invis group camping Tome of Death in the Ruins of Varsoon has the mob 'ganked' by another quest group that has fought its way in as the Tome spawns. One group wins, the other loses: both end up with a bad feeling instead of the GOOD feeling that a game is supposed to generate!</p>

[Slapfish]

<p>Yup- I hate this too. Happened a few days ago in CT with the named we needed for an HQ. </p><p>The only problem with a formula like kill 4 x's, and then 6 y's, and then when BigBaddy spawns you can kill him, is that it would ruin the possibility of just stumbling onto a named and being able to kill him. If you did, you'd have to stop and look up the correct combination needed to be able to kill him, then go back, kill sthe x's and y's and get him. They would also  have to make the MOB's non-aggro because it wouldn't be exactly fair to get jumped by a named, but not be allowed to kill it until you'd killed the x's and y's.</p><p>So I'm not sure what the solution is.  Perhaps it might not be necessary to kill x's and y's, but if you HAVE done so, it would lock the named to you, or your group for a period of time. The in-game reasoning behind it is that perhaps the MOB has taken notice that you are killing his minions and is waiting for you to finish you off. Then the whole thing could be on a timer basis (you know, after you have your shot you can't kill BigBaddy again for 24 hours or something) to keep people from camping the x's and y's and effectively keeping the named perma-locked. </p><p>Might work. This would be especially nice for those named MOBs needed for HQ's and other important quests. </p><p>On another note, I've long thought that some form of in-game player feedback/rating system would be nice. I'm not sure how it would be implemented (especially to avoid abuse) but if players knew their bad manners would have repurcussions it might reduce it somewhat. </p>

[Stevil_Firebrand]

<p>Look I don't think that the mob actually belongs to me. What I feel is that killing placeholders for 2 hours earns me the right to take it out when it pops. I know that there's no rule that say's that that mob becomes mine... but I believe it should be changed so that it would. The reality of it is is that there are cheeky feckers out there who will take the mob from you and kill it without consequence and if you ask them why they did it you just get abuse. The worst part is there is no retribution that you can take either.</p><p>I don't think that mobs such as this that take real hard work to get up to should be 'contestable' and should be linked to the work you have to put in to get there. Why are these mobs classed as contestable anyway? It's he who clicks first that counts. That's not a contest in my opinion.</p><p>It's also amazing how people know how well botters code in these forums. I think SOE should take a peak at their accounts.</p>

[Natak]

<cite>Stevil_Firebrand wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Look I don't think that the mob actually belongs to me. What I feel is that killing placeholders for 2 hours earns me the right to take it out when it pops. I know that there's no rule that say's that that mob becomes mine... but I believe it should be changed so that it would. The reality of it is is that there are cheeky feckers out there who will take the mob from you and kill it without consequence and if you ask them why they did it you just get abuse. The worst part is there is no retribution that you can take either.</p><span style="color: #ffff00">While i agree that you "should" have a chance at the mob, the hard part is proving you were there for 2 hours. You cannot expect Joe smith to watch you for the entire 2 hours to make sure that you weren't killing ph's to get the named to spawn. This is where i think the idea of triggered spawns should come to play (i think you suggested it?)</span> <p>I don't think that mobs such as this that take real hard work to get up to should be 'contestable' and should be linked to the work you have to put in to get there. Why are these mobs classed as contestable anyway? It's he who clicks first that counts. That's not a contest in my opinion.</p><p>It's also amazing how people know how well botters code in these forums. I think SOE should take a peak at their accounts.</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00"> It is well known and well documented the various techniques used to create third party bots and farmers. Accusing those that provide information on a public board of being botters themselves is very bad form.</span> </p></blockquote>

[Jrral]

<cite>Stevil_Firebrand wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Look I don't think that the mob actually belongs to me. What I feel is that killing placeholders for 2 hours earns me the right to take it out when it pops. </p> </blockquote>Actually you do get a "right" to a named if you're killing placeholders. Mobs are contested, but there's another bit of the TOS that says nobody has the right to disrupt the game for others or monopolize content. If you're clearing placeholders or other mobs needed to get to a named and someone else takes advantage of that by coming in through the area you've cleared to take the named before you can finish the last mobs you're engaged with and engage him, that's disruptive play. Scroll your log back to where you started to kill the placeholders or the last mobs that block the way to the named and take a /report (make sure the part where the interloper goes for the named is included in the 100-line window), and /petition him for game disruption. If you have time, telling him before he starts on the named that you've been killing placeholders for that named for X amount of time and that if he needs the named you'll group with him so you all get credit will improve your standing with CS immensely on the matter. With that kind of statement to him in the record, if he ignores you and goes for the named alone it's almost certain he's going to get dinged by CS. Note: do not mention farming or botting. Do not allege that they stole the named from you. The allegation is that they are disrupting play by taking advantage of your clearing of placeholders to avoid having to do it themselves.

[Hollywood]

Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>With that kind of statement to him in the record, if he ignores you and goes for the named alone it's almost certain he's going to get dinged by CS. </blockquote>I seriously doubt that.

[Ji]

<p>See? The community in EQ1 had a much more hospitable approach to this. The would simply ask if they could have the kill so they could finish their quest or whatever. It seems that none of those game ethics came over to EQ2.</p><p>Just last week I was farming eye's in Barren Sky. I had only been there for about 10 mins when a ranger rolls up and start pulling from right next to me. I asked him if I could have the ye's and he could have the named and the gazers. His reply was "I'll take whatever I want". So I told him "ok dick, it's all yours".</p><p>I mean cmon people. Respect other peoples camps and find one that suits you until their gone! If someone is camping a named every day for ungodly periods of time then, by all means, ask them to leave or tactfully approach the situation.</p>

[Ji]

<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=351771" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=351771</a>

[Lornick]

<cite>Jixx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>See? <b>The community in EQ1 had a much more hospitable approach to this</b>. The would simply ask if they could have the kill so they could finish their quest or whatever. It seems that none of those game ethics came over to EQ2.</p></blockquote>You're joking right?  I played EQ1.  I can assure you that I've seen alot more named ganking in EQ1 then in EQ2.  In fact it's even arguable whether you can have a named 'ganked' from you in EQ2 since if you engage it first then you'll get credit for the kill.  It's a billion times worse when you actually engage a mob first and a group or player with more dps gets credit for a kill you engaged first (which is how EQ1 worked.  Whoever did 51% or more of the damage gets credit).  I play alot and really haven't had many issues at all with other players involving named mobs with EQ2.  Asking for all kinds of weird code that would no doubt be buggy as hell to avoid a problem that doesn't really exist would be far more disruptive to the game then leaving things alone.  Here's a little tip for you.  Generally speaking mobs in this game have respawn timers.  Learn the timers for the PH/named your looking for and be sure your there and ready the second they spawn.  You'll never have this trouble again if you do.

[Pendant]

<cite>Jixx wrote:</cite><blockquote><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=351771" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=351771</a></blockquote> Totally on-topic. Totally awesome <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Pendant]

<cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's a little tip for you.  Generally speaking mobs in this game have respawn timers.  Learn the timers for the PH/named your looking for and be sure your there and ready the second they spawn.  You'll never have this trouble again if you do. </blockquote> Sadly, I have to disagree with this. IMO the fact that some respawns can be so perfectly timed is utilised by those who are prepared to exploit the game's mechanics to the detriment of those who would like to play this as 'just a fun game'.

[Ji]

<cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jixx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>See? <b>The community in EQ1 had a much more hospitable approach to this</b>. The would simply ask if they could have the kill so they could finish their quest or whatever. It seems that none of those game ethics came over to EQ2.</p></blockquote>You're joking right?  I played EQ1.  I can assure you that I've seen alot more named ganking in EQ1 then in EQ2.  In fact it's even arguable whether you can have a named 'ganked' from you in EQ2 since if you engage it first then you'll get credit for the kill.  It's a billion times worse when you actually engage a mob first and a group or player with more dps gets credit for a kill you engaged first (which is how EQ1 worked.  Whoever did 51% or more of the damage gets credit).  I play alot and really haven't had many issues at all with other players involving named mobs with EQ2.  Asking for all kinds of weird code that would no doubt be buggy as hell to avoid a problem that doesn't really exist would be far more disruptive to the game then leaving things alone.  Here's a little tip for you.  Generally speaking mobs in this game have respawn timers.  Learn the timers for the PH/named your looking for and be sure your there and ready the second they spawn.  You'll never have this trouble again if you do. </blockquote>What are you talking about? Do you know?

[TheStateFish]

<p>You should be able to handle more than 1 encounter at a time, so if you see a named, just pull it first. First to pull it gets ownership, thats a perfect system. You can't own mobs, rooms, zones, and there are no such things as camps based on the terms of service, so you can beat the bots and ninja's by being faster than them. </p><p>The best fix would be to remove all loot and aa from all named for all quests, so you can complete your quests without hassle. Or were you just going for the loot yourself? Doing so would leave the game kinda barren of master chest drops, and the bots would be permacamping the 5 named left in the world.</p>

[erin]

<cite>Jixx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>See? The community in EQ1 had a much more hospitable approach to this. The would simply ask if they could have the kill so they could finish their quest or whatever. It seems that none of those game ethics came over to EQ2.</p><p>Just last week I was farming eye's in Barren Sky. I had only been there for about 10 mins when a ranger rolls up and start pulling from right next to me. I asked him if I could have the ye's and he could have the named and the gazers. His reply was "I'll take whatever I want". So I told him "ok [I cannot control my vocabulary], it's all yours".</p><p>I mean cmon people. Respect other peoples camps and find one that suits you until their gone! If someone is camping a named every day for ungodly periods of time then, by all means, ask them to leave or tactfully approach the situation.</p></blockquote>LOL.  I can tell you that I got ganked in EQ1 many hundreds of times more than has ever happened in EQ2.  Encounter locking ftw.  And I've been playing EQ2 since launch. And your story is sad, but not because of what you think.  You were farming eyes and expected to hold an entire open area.  That's rather selfish and rude of you, so the guy's response, while also rude, isn't unexpected at all.  You have no right to claim an entire area to "farm".  I see this a lot with people harvesting, where they want to hold large chunks of ground.  While that would be very nice (I harvest a ton), it isn't how the game is set up.  You need to learn to deal with how the game is, not how you want it to be. There are no camps in this game.  It was deliberately set up from day one that there are no camps.  Remove camp from your philosophy.  I do respect folks "camping" PHers to get a named, but some people don't.  But to expect people to respect a camp of common mobs?  Not going to happen, it isn't intended, and very rarely will someone be that accomodating. The key comment you made is right there "Respect other peoples camps".  There are no camps.  Ask in any level channel to see if people accept the concept of a camp, like what you were claiming (an area of common mobs).  The answer will almost always be no.  This isn't EQ1.

[Ganlu]

Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>Stevil_Firebrand wrote: Note: do not mention farming or botting. Do not allege that they stole the named from you. The allegation is that they are disrupting play by taking advantage of your clearing of placeholders to avoid having to do it themselves. </blockquote>It is not zone disruption to kill a named if someone else killed the placeholders.  Zone disruption is a level 70 running through a low level zone and continuously AEing everything killable even if a low level player has asked him to stop.  Try petitioning a player because they killed a named after you killed the PHs for it, and I guarantee there won't be any reprisal from SoE.  There is no "ownership" in the game until you've locked an encounter on yourself.

[Slapfish]

<cite>Jixx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>See? The community in EQ1 had a much more hospitable approach to this. The would simply ask if they could have the kill so they could finish their quest or whatever. It seems that none of those game ethics came over to EQ2.</p><p>Just last week I was farming eye's in Barren Sky. I had only been there for about 10 mins when a ranger rolls up and start pulling from right next to me. I asked him if I could have the ye's and he could have the named and the gazers. His reply was "I'll take whatever I want". So I told him "ok [I cannot control my vocabulary], it's all yours".</p><p>I mean cmon people. Respect other peoples camps and find one that suits you until their gone! If someone is camping a named every day for ungodly periods of time then, by all means, ask them to leave or tactfully approach the situation.</p></blockquote><p>Wow! (and I don't mean the game) you are REALLY looking back through rose colored glasses. There was a lot more fighting and lack of curtesy in EQ. If you recall, multiple people in a group did not get credit for quest kills so there was more competition for the same MOB, there was no encounter locking and loot went to whichever player got there first.  I guess you don't remember the Lake of Ill Manners? </p><p>It's nice to look back fondly, but let's be realistic here. </p>

[Stevil_Firebrand]

Prof@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><p>You should be able to handle more than 1 encounter at a time, so if you see a named, just pull it first. First to pull it gets ownership, thats a perfect system. You can't own mobs, rooms, zones, and there are no such things as camps based on the terms of service, so you can beat the bots and ninja's by being faster than them. </p><p>The best fix would be to remove all loot and aa from all named for all quests, so you can complete your quests without hassle. Or were you just going for the loot yourself? Doing so would leave the game kinda barren of master chest drops, and the bots would be permacamping the 5 named left in the world.</p></blockquote><p> Unfortunately I have to disagree here.</p><p>Quite often the encounter before the named is pretty tough and quite often it's not feasible for the group to accept a named as an ADD due to group strength (fine taking the mobs as individual encounters however). The people I have a problem with are the people who are taking the named as soon as I start clearing the last mob or take a Named spawn before I've even got the chance to click to have a go myself. That's not 'contestable', that's 'no contest'. I clearly didn't have the chance to click the named and start fighting, it was all over bar the shouting.</p><p>Even in my specified example of Bloodtalon. His PHs spawn in different places and Bloodtalon doesn't spawn in exactly the same spot so even if I am camping exactly where I think he'll pop for 2 hours (and I've got a bloody good idea haveing done it several times before) there's no guarantee that I'll be the nearest party in linear distance to it when it pops.</p><p>I feel that the only way to resolve this would be to change it so that BT attacks whoever killed the PH and it's a locked encounter.</p><p>But unfortunately that wouldn't stop groups overtaking other groups in dungeons to kill nameds. Not that I've got a problem with taking turns to take out nameds and sharing the area. I just don't like the cheeky greedy feckers who think they can hang around while my group does all the leg work and they atek our spoils when we don't even have the chance to.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Stevil_Firebrand wrote:</cite><blockquote>Prof@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><p>You should be able to handle more than 1 encounter at a time, so if you see a named, just pull it first. First to pull it gets ownership, thats a perfect system. You can't own mobs, rooms, zones, and there are no such things as camps based on the terms of service, so you can beat the bots and ninja's by being faster than them. </p><p>The best fix would be to remove all loot and aa from all named for all quests, so you can complete your quests without hassle. Or were you just going for the loot yourself? Doing so would leave the game kinda barren of master chest drops, and the bots would be permacamping the 5 named left in the world.</p></blockquote><p> Unfortunately I have to disagree here.</p><p>Quite often the encounter before the named is pretty tough and quite often it's not feasible for the group to accept a named as an ADD due to group strength (fine taking the mobs as individual encounters however). The people I have a problem with are the people who are taking the named as soon as I start clearing the last mob or take a Named spawn before I've even got the chance to click to have a go myself. That's not 'contestable', that's 'no contest'. I clearly didn't have the chance to click the named and start fighting, it was all over bar the shouting.</p><p>Even in my specified example of Bloodtalon. His PHs spawn in different places and Bloodtalon doesn't spawn in exactly the same spot so even if I am camping exactly where I think he'll pop for 2 hours (and I've got a bloody good idea haveing done it several times before) there's no guarantee that I'll be the nearest party in linear distance to it when it pops.</p><p>I feel that the only way to resolve this would be to change it so that BT attacks whoever killed the PH and it's a locked encounter.</p><p>But unfortunately that wouldn't stop groups overtaking other groups in dungeons to kill nameds. Not that I've got a problem with taking turns to take out nameds and sharing the area. I just don't like the cheeky greedy feckers who think they can hang around while my group does all the leg work and they atek our spoils when we don't even have the chance to.</p></blockquote>Yopu can build a group to do this pulling named across a whole room thing. HAve a brawler pull the named (and the rest of the room), and have the real tank bonk the named ont he head to enter his hatelist, noone heals the brawler, he FDs everything off (Which returns into the room) and the real tank keeps the named.

[DevilDi]

Stevil_Firebrand wrote: <blockquote><p>Unfortunately I have to disagree here.</p><p>Quite often the encounter before the named is pretty tough and quite often it's not feasible for the group to accept a named as an ADD due to group strength (fine taking the mobs as individual encounters however). The people I have a problem with are the people who are taking the named as soon as I start clearing the last mob or take a Named spawn before I've even got the chance to click to have a go myself. That's not 'contestable', that's 'no contest'. I clearly didn't have the chance to click the named and start fighting, it was all over bar the shouting.</p><p>Even in my specified example of Bloodtalon. His PHs spawn in different places and Bloodtalon doesn't spawn in exactly the same spot so even if I am camping exactly where I think he'll pop for 2 hours (and I've got a bloody good idea haveing done it several times before) there's no guarantee that I'll be the nearest party in linear distance to it when it pops.</p><p>I feel that the only way to resolve this would be to change it so that BT attacks whoever killed the PH and it's a locked encounter.</p><p>But unfortunately that wouldn't stop groups overtaking other groups in dungeons to kill nameds. Not that I've got a problem with taking turns to take out nameds and sharing the area. I just don't like the cheeky greedy feckers who think they can hang around while my group does all the leg work and they atek our spoils when we don't even have the chance to.</p></blockquote><p> Although it is frustrating to have that happen, it is a reality of the game.  Some players are going to respect that you killed the PH's and others will not.  I, personally, do not want an artificial "play nice" mechanic that is a substitute for good sportsmanship.</p><p>If we do that, where does it stop?  Many quests have non-named mobs with greater and lesser degrees of rarity.  Should these become some type of "lock system?"  What about nodes?  While doing Dwarvin Work Boots or Silk Sash, you have to harvest.  Should the people that harvest for quests have a greater "right" to nodes over those that harvest for crafting?  Should the people harvesting for their personal crafting have a greater "right" to the node over those that are simply doing it to sell on the broker?</p>

[Stevil_Firebrand]

<p>And another thing... them ********* who steal MY nodes!!!</p><p>LOL joking!</p><p>If someone is harvesting a node then it's theirs. I have no problems with this because there are plenty of nodes to go around and I'll find another. Now if some cheeky fecker wants to come and harvest my node that's a different story. They get told to go get their own. This is where Finders keepers rule works nice and fairly for me.</p><p>Bloodtalon is a different kettle of fish and so is a Dungeon boss who you worked for an hour to get up to.</p>

[Femke]

Oh my.... I am already very happy that when I locked a mob (named or not), no one can steal it from me anymore. I used to play Lineage. There it happened that they let you kill the raid-boss (some kind of named there) for 75% and then take over... and then you had to be very happy when you not got PKed. Femke.

[DevilDi]

<cite>Stevil_Firebrand wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And another thing... them ********* who steal MY nodes!!!</p><p>LOL joking!</p><p>If someone is harvesting a node then it's theirs. I have no problems with this because there are plenty of nodes to go around and I'll find another. Now if some cheeky fecker wants to come and harvest my node that's a different story. They get told to go get their own. This is where Finders keepers rule works nice and fairly for me.</p><p>Bloodtalon is a different kettle of fish and so is a Dungeon boss who you worked for an hour to get up to.</p></blockquote><p> Ah.  You are wrong on the node and that boss.  There is nothing in game preventing me from running up that node you are on and stealing a pull or two.  I don't and you don't because we show some sportsmanship.  If I see a group camping a name (thinking Weavemaster where it is plainly obvious what is going on) I pass.</p><p>Honestly, how many times has that happened to you?  Bloodtalon spawns in the middle of giant field where it is plainly obvious if another group is present.  Communicating with the other group can go a long way to preventing hurt feelings.  </p>

[Lord_Quaymar]

<cite>Stevil_Firebrand wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Something has got to be done about this.</p><p> I am sick of carving my way to a named and having someone come up from behind and taking the named whilst I take the last mobs. It's just disgusting. I'm pig sick of being a victim of this and am starting to think about cancelling my account because of it. I've been grouped in Fallen Gate and people have took nameds after we've cleared the way and today I was in Thundering Steppes killing the place holders for Bloodtalon for 2 hours and a group turns up kills a couple of non-PH griffons and then kills Bloodtalon.</p><p>How long am I going to wait for the next spawn? Who's going to come steal it the next time?</p><p>There needs to be a criteria for killing nameds that needs to be introduced. You should have to have killed X amount of something and X amount of something else before you can kill them to stop greedy players coming and taking the prize of your hard work. Only when we establish proper ownership will this be fair.</p><p>If something like this happened then it may be possible solution to prevent botting and camping.</p></blockquote><p>You just have to outsmart them. When clearing through an area and there are a couple mobs between you and the named, invis past them to the named or let the other group take those and you go get the named.</p><p>Proper ownership IS established as in the first to attack gets the mob...that's the way it goes with FFA named...first come, first served so to speak. Every MMO has the same thing so learn to deal or quit...simple. </p>

[Rattfa]

There are no camps in EQ2. Devs have stated this quite clearly. There is no ownership of mobs (with the exception of rin events where you can petition the 'stealer' for zone disruption). With the example of Bloodtalon, if you spend an hout clearing placeholders and someone else gets the name, then it sucks to be you. Its a contested mob. I'm not saying that's right necessarily, as I will always ask if it's obvious that someone is going for a particular mob, and move on if they are. Some peopel are rude, but there's nothing you can do about it.

[dartie]

<p>Although I'm sympathetic to the OP's plight (having had this same thing happen to me several times over the weekend), I think the devs might be able to respond more effectively to a specific request.</p><p>First, the main point is that we don't want to kill a bunch of PH to spawn a named only to have some yahoo steal the named.  That's not an unreasonable request, but it doesn't have anything to do with 1) botters; or 2) named mobs that aren't tied to PH.</p><p>The simplest solution that suggests itself to me is to have the named spawn in combat with the character/group pursuing it the second the last PH is killed.  For example, as soon as you kill the last remaining giant rodent (or whatever it's called) in Vermin's Snye, the queen boss (I forget her name) would pop with her adds right next to your party and attack.  The named is then greyed out to other players as would ordinarily be the case.  (I realize this is less than ideal, since 2 different parties might be going for her, and she would go to the party that killed the last PH, but it's better than what we have now, which allows a person just walking through the area to get the named that my party killed all the PH for.  This happened to me in Crushbone with the orcs that you have to clear in order to spawn the named expedition folks.  Another party was there and kept killing the named that my party cleared the spawn for.  They said they just happened to be standing where the named stood and were attacked after we cleared the PH--and that they were killing the named just to defend themselves.  Maybe they were, though 4 named in a row makes that claim a little difficult for me to swallow.)  If the bosses popped and were locked automatically in combat with my party that would obviously make hunting named creatures more rewarding (though I suspect the devs might argue it's less realistic, in which case I'll grit my teeth and continue to put up with it).</p><p>As for bosses that one works one's way towards only to have another party come up from behind and take them, I don't think there's anything to do here except to depend on the politeness of strangers.  Named creatures that aren't tied to PH are right there for parties to kill however they like.  If my lowbie fury is patiently slogging through a ton of gnolls on her way to a boss and your swashie comes from behind in stealth and races through the gnolls to get to the boss, I can't really make you wait for me or even legitimately complain about your behavior.  Stealth is part of your gig; it lets you bypass some of the junk that non-stealthed players have to contend with.  If that means you get to the boss I was heading towards before me (even though you started after me), then I guess I'll just have to settle in for the respawn.  Of course, if you're a swashie with any manners or sense of decency, I would expect you to come back later, but I think a complaint to a GM over this sort of thing is a waste of time.</p>

[UlteriorModem]

<p>Just an observation.</p><p>The people that participate in this contemptious behaviour are also the ones least likely to participate in the community at large. Espically the forums.</p><p>So discuss it all ya want but in the long term it accomplishes little.</p>

[Krontak]

<cite>Lord_Quaymar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stevil_Firebrand wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Something has got to be done about this.</p><p> I am sick of carving my way to a named and having someone come up from behind and taking the named whilst I take the last mobs. It's just disgusting. I'm pig sick of being a victim of this and am starting to think about cancelling my account because of it. I've been grouped in Fallen Gate and people have took nameds after we've cleared the way and today I was in Thundering Steppes killing the place holders for Bloodtalon for 2 hours and a group turns up kills a couple of non-PH griffons and then kills Bloodtalon.</p><p>How long am I going to wait for the next spawn? Who's going to come steal it the next time?</p><p>There needs to be a criteria for killing nameds that needs to be introduced. You should have to have killed X amount of something and X amount of something else before you can kill them to stop greedy players coming and taking the prize of your hard work. Only when we establish proper ownership will this be fair.</p><p>If something like this happened then it may be possible solution to prevent botting and camping.</p></blockquote><p>You just have to outsmart them. When clearing through an area and there are a couple mobs between you and the named, invis past them to the named or let the other group take those and you go get the named.</p><p>Proper ownership IS established as in the first to attack gets the mob...that's the way it goes with FFA named...first come, first served so to speak. Every MMO has the same thing so learn to deal or quit...simple. </p></blockquote><p>Its fun people like you that make for such a great community and keep people coming back for more.  ffs I think I just barfed in my mouth a little u [Removed for Content]!</p><p>Here's how I deal with it.  Slander thier god [Removed for Content] names all over the place and put them on ignore with a little note as to why they are on ignore.  Then come here to the web site, find all thier alts and blast them too, putting them on ignore with little notes.  If thier in a guild find thier leaders name and make them aware of what an [Removed for Content] one of thier members was.  If the guild decides to do nothing then so be it.  </p><p>What comes around goes around I always believe.  Chances are with such small communities you're bound to run into someone again at some point.  Just check your ignore lists frequently as over time they may get kind of extensive as mine has.  Heck, I've even ran into asswipes from the first couple months of gameplay later on.  I'll bring it up and they usually by then realize that maybe they were wrong, appologize and then you can move on.</p><p>I wouldn't take lq's advice to just deal or quit.  It's definatly not the kind of community behavior that should be positively reinforced that needs to be propigated in any way and should be stopped dead in its tracks at any first sign. </p>

[DngrMou]

<cite>Krontak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its fun people like you that make for such a great community and keep people coming back for more.  ffs I think I just barfed in my mouth a little u [I cannot control my vocabulary]!</p><p>Here's how I deal with it.  Slander thier god [I cannot control my vocabulary] names all over the place and put them on ignore with a little note as to why they are on ignore.  Then come here to the web site, find all thier alts and blast them too, putting them on ignore with little notes.  If thier in a guild find thier leaders name and make them aware of what an [I cannot control my vocabulary] one of thier members was.  If the guild decides to do nothing then so be it.  </p><p>What comes around goes around I always believe.  Chances are with such small communities you're bound to run into someone again at some point.  Just check your ignore lists frequently as over time they may get kind of extensive as mine has.  Heck, I've even ran into asswipes from the first couple months of gameplay later on.  I'll bring it up and they usually by then realize that maybe they were wrong, appologize and then you can move on.</p><p>I wouldn't take lq's advice to just deal or quit.  It's definatly not the kind of community behavior that should be positively reinforced that needs to be propigated in any way and should be stopped dead in its tracks at any first sign. </p></blockquote>Before it's dealt with quite so harshly at the first sign...which may work for you and your guild....for everyone else, it might be a good idea to make sure it was'nt accidental first.  Those accidents do happen....crowded zones....couple or three groups all mixed together.....named spawns....aggro's whoever is closest...that person runs screaming back to his group, and named dies.  That does'nt make someone an 'asswipe'.  They might be new, might be in a less than perfect pickup group.  Lot's of things.

[Lord_Quaymar]

<cite>Krontak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its fun people like you that make for such a great community and keep people coming back for more.  ffs I think I just barfed in my mouth a little u [I cannot control my vocabulary]!</p><p>Here's how I deal with it.  Slander thier god [I cannot control my vocabulary] names all over the place and put them on ignore with a little note as to why they are on ignore.  Then come here to the web site, find all thier alts and blast them too, putting them on ignore with little notes.  If thier in a guild find thier leaders name and make them aware of what an [I cannot control my vocabulary] one of thier members was.  If the guild decides to do nothing then so be it.  </p><p>What comes around goes around I always believe.  Chances are with such small communities you're bound to run into someone again at some point.  Just check your ignore lists frequently as over time they may get kind of extensive as mine has.  Heck, I've even ran into asswipes from the first couple months of gameplay later on.  I'll bring it up and they usually by then realize that maybe they were wrong, appologize and then you can move on.</p><p>I wouldn't take lq's advice to just deal or quit.  It's definatly not the kind of community behavior that should be positively reinforced that needs to be propigated in any way and should be stopped dead in its tracks at any first sign. </p></blockquote><p>Yeah...so people should take your advice and make a complete arsehole out of themselves, lowering themselves to the level of the people that KS'd their mob! LOL...don't be such a jerk!</p><p>I say to outsmart them or deal with it...yeah...your advice is MUCH better..../roll eyes.</p><p>Put someone on your ignore list and guess what they do? Talk trash about you right back and you don't even know it! yeah....takes a real genious...[Removed for Content]. 2 wrongs don't make a right fool. </p>

[Sotaudi]

<cite>Ganluan wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as I know, the TOS of the game does not specify any "rights" to mobs, that's why there's an encounter locking system.  Whoever tags the mob first, gets the kill/loot.  Now, as a rule I never kill a named even in the same room as another group that seem to be making their way toward it, and always ask if others need a quest update. Not all players are like this though, and they're not breaking any rules.  If you see another group that looks like they're ready to pounce on your named, you can always root/mez the named or something to lock it to you while you finish the stuff around it.  If someone does steal a named from me (i.e., they kill it after I've cleared the way to it), I make sure to let them know that I don't consider what they did good "sportsmanship" (for lack of a better word), and many times they will offer apologies or have misunderstood because they were coming from another direction. </blockquote><p>A single incident will not likely result in any kind of disciplinary action, but you are incorrect that such activity is not a violation of any rules.  If someone repeatedly takes nameds, espeically if they are spawned from killing placeholders, they are guilty of monopolizing content and zone disruption, both of which are prohibited activities.   So a single incident is not a violation of the rules, primiarily because it is difficult to prove.  However, if someone is repeatedly taking nameds, especially if someone else worked to spawn them, that person/group is in violation of the rules, and it is actionalbe.</p>

[Krontak]

<cite>Lord_Quaymar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krontak wrote:</cite><blockquote></blockquote><p>Yeah...so people should take your advice and make a complete arsehole out of themselves, lowering themselves to the level of the people that KS'd their mob! LOL...don't be such a jerk!</p><p>I say to outsmart them or deal with it...yeah...your advice is MUCH better..../roll eyes.</p><p>Put someone on your ignore list and guess what they do? Talk trash about you right back and you don't even know it! yeah....takes a real genious...[Removed for Content]. 2 wrongs don't make a right fool. </p></blockquote><p>Good, so when contested are up just [Removed for Content] taking turns its whoever is set up first right?  We'll see how many guilds accept a dumb [Removed for Content] like you that thinks its ok to just pull when someone else is up for the pull.  Its common courtesy to allow whoever is there first dibs for the most part.  But hey, if you think being a jerk is fine then so be it. I can't change your way of thinking.</p><p>Not sure why blacklisting an inconsiderate person is wrong tbh.  If you really want to propagate a community that doesn't give a crap about people and are selfish then I guess I can't stop you but I'm not gonna let you sit around and tell people its acceptable to be inconsiderate.</p><p>I'll tell ya what, the online communities really shine peoples personalities at times.  One of the problems is that there are no consequences so people think its alright to [Removed for Content] on each other.  Boggles my mind.  </p><p>But like I said, what goes around comes around sooner or later.  I choose the ignore list so I can keep track of people as I mentioned.  Maybe SOE could build us an /enemies list like the friends list....that would be more efficient.  </p><p> Oh, and u just made my list buddy! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>fyi, you misspelled genius </p>

[corndog2451]

<p>Nameds Cannot be stolen:</p><p>/putonflameresistsuit</p><p> You do not own the named, so therfore when someone else kills it, it is not stolen. It is annoying, but for all you know they wiped on it 15 minutes before after camping it for hours and were working their way back to it. Now Plat farmers doing this I can see a problem. Another group that for all you know could have been camping it I dont see a problem. If a named is up someone was there recently killing the PH, or the slight possiblity it poped back to back. </p>

[Krontak]

Youris@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Krontak wrote: Before it's dealt with quite so harshly at the first sign...which may work for you and your guild....for everyone else, it might be a good idea to make sure it was'nt accidental first.  Those accidents do happen....crowded zones....couple or three groups all mixed together.....named spawns....aggro's whoever is closest...that person runs screaming back to his group, and named dies.  That does'nt make someone an 'asswipe'.  They might be new, might be in a less than perfect pickup group.  Lot's of things. </blockquote><p> No doubt.  I always speak with people first to determine if they meant to do this or not.  Most flat out say fu, I got there before you did, deal with it.</p><p>Fortunately, most people don't do this.  Unfortunately, only the bad stories make it to the boards.  Once this transmutting crap came about I had rolled a lower level toon to farm transmuttables.  I haven't ran those zones since inception of the game and back then people still had the whole camp respect thing that resided from eq1 camp check play style.  </p><p>For the most part, as I was working my way to names, people would ask and I'd tell em I'm about ready to give it a shot and they'd back off.  I would always do the same.  Then, there's the socially inept people that nuke as your about to engage, run off and give you the oh I didn't see you as I had to run around you to click on the npc to nuke it people.  But, like I said, over half of the player base is somewhat considerate.  If it wasn't then I'd probably not play online MMO's.</p>

[Agaxiq]

I had a similar experience in Living Tombs, trying to get Yeddahd's Cadaceus for my Necro.  For those of you who don't know, right inside the entrance of Living Tombs, there is a solo ring event with a chance to pop a solo named which sometimes drops a fabled Summoner-only staff with a great emergency pet heal.  It is NO-TRADE, so farming it only gets you the 30-40g or whatever its worth to the vendor if you can't use it or transmute it. Well, some Wizard was literally there for days, constantly clearing trash for it.  I dont know if he was just transmuting it or vendoring it.  He wasn't a crafter so I would assume he was just vendoring it, but who knows. Anyways, it got down to whoever could get the first hit on the named (I had auto-lock on by now). If I ever pulled it, he would body pull some of the heroic spectres into my Fury's Ring of Fire (AOE "pet&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - essentially training mobs into me. Well, at first I thought it was an accident, but then after he did it the second time I could tell he meant it on purpose.  Luckily taking care of the (green) spectre wasn't a problem.  I didnt use that spell after that. Of course, the staff never dropped for me, and the *one time* he managed to get the pull when the named popped - he drops the metal box.  I was [Removed for Content].  He then just says "heheh" and went on his way.  He was back before the next ring event started. I dont really have a solution other than be on the lookout.  A ganker/farmer is generally fairly easy to spot, either by actions or words.  Turn auto-lock on, find how to pull fast (bow, 1sec cast time spell etc) so that if you need to be quick on the draw, you can.  Anything to get that first hit and lock the encounter. Just remember that not everyone out there is like that, so don't let it go to your head.  I once pulled a named from a group in Clefts not even thinking twice about it because of my experiences in Living Tombs, and I felt really awful for doing it.  Granted it was just one of the solo named on the first floor, but it made me feel really low. agressiv

[Talz]

Camping a mob and wanting to kill a mob aren't the same thing when any other party is involved.  If the OP was at Bloodtalon's spawn camping it then he would have gotten it.  It may be semantics to some but it isn't.  When others are involved you're camping a mob when you have the ability to kill it when it spawns.  Anything else isn't camping it.  It is too bad if a player doesn't know exactly where a spawn point is or if the force they needed couldn't be bothered to stay with them or screws around in town for twenty minutes before coming.  It isn't the problem of other players. Players like to think they are Rambo and their guild has all the best people in it.  There are a dozen things to blame for their deficiencies because they obviously can't be the problem.  They are Rambo after all.  The point is this goes for all contested content.  If you aren't going to bring your A game then don't get mad at people that do or people that just get lucky.  The bottom line is that if you're going claim ownership of a mob then be able to kill it.  What leeway another party gives is at their discretion.  In EQ2 more so than EQ1  I believe you'll find most people to be accommodating mainly because of the quest system.  Unfortunately some won't.  It isn't fun when it happens but it happens. There are camps in EQ2.  A lazy CS disclaimer by any red name doesn't change that.  Unfortunately in the amusement park instanced world that MMO's are becoming the players lose more and more ability to punish and self police other players and guilds that violate server community etiquette.  

[dj2830]

One better How about an Enire guild that just sits and waits for different raid encounters, ruining the entire game for everyone. The game is made for everyone not just one guild on the Antonia Bayle server that feels it has to have everything. If this keeps on no one will get thier epics when Kunark comes out. The guild that starts with EI..... feels we should all bow to them because they are the Uber raiding guild. IMO thats what takes the fun out of this. And this is not just one opinion poll the server and mention the name, it's not a popular guild ...I won't give them the time of day. Sony make this stop or listen to us.

[DngrMou]

<cite>dj2830 wrote:</cite><blockquote>One better How about an Enire guild that just sits and waits for different raid encounters, ruining the entire game for everyone. The game is made for everyone not just one guild on the Antonia Bayle server that feels it has to have everything. If this keeps on no one will get thier epics when Kunark comes out. The guild that starts with EI..... feels we should all bow to them because they are the Uber raiding guild. IMO thats what takes the fun out of this. And this is not just one opinion poll the server and mention the name, it's not a popular guild ...I won't give them the time of day. Sony make this stop or listen to us.</blockquote><p> Yes, many's the time I've been zipping around Lfay, searching for the elusive Succulent Root, blood boiling at the thought of the uber raiding guild that begins with 'EI' sitting.  Somewhere.  Waiting.  Yep.  Ruined my entire game!  </p><p>P.S.  Wow.  Bitter, much?</p>

[azekah]

funny thing happened in the Wailing Caves the other day... I was just soloin around and I came up on a group that was at the entrance to the cave where there's a named spider at the end. I knew that's where they were going and I was in a devious mood and made it look like I was makin a b-line for the named. The tank in the group freaked out and ran into the cave and started grabbing every spider in a attempt to get to the named before me. He realized he had grabbed to many and stopped before the named. I leisurely walked by them and up to the named and just stared at it...then I walked away...Lol, it was a little mean, but hilarious...at least for me...I checked the tank and he was a 56 mentored so he had no problem with the adds...Just shows how much people are worried about others stealing named... Personally it's only happened to me a few times in two years...Yea it ticks the hell outa me...but whatever...its just people bein stupid...You deal with that everywhere you go..

[Vodr]

<p>Ring events are also not covered,  I was camping my summoner staff,  for 6 hours.  Every group that came in I notified I was trying to camp for my staff.  Most groups were very kind and said they would pull from around the area I was trying to camp.  Anyone who has done this camp also knows that the platt farmers make it very difficult as well.</p><p>4 groups spawn that you have to kill (technically a ring event).  One group I notified some of the toons responded ok however the tank never said a word.  The tank waited till I pulled and killed all 4 groups of mobs and then ganked the named right from under me.  I had cast first on it however it was resisted so no damage = no lock.  I petitioned and was informed there was no camps in eq2 even though it was a ring event I had no ownership on the mob.</p><p>Want to add insult to injury that was the time the master chest popped with the staff.  4 hours one day,  6 that day,  2 after than and I just gave up and to this day (level 70 with 48aa's) I have never tried to get that staff again as I was disgusted.  The members of the group were apologetic however still fought and healed the tank.</p><p>I also played EQ1 and in that game people knew who the pricks were and avoided them.  You didn't steal mobs, you waited your turn.  You picked a camp and ground it till your fingers blead.  The community here can be very different however I like the mechanics of this game better than EQ1 so I tend to deal with the pricks.</p><p>EQ1 player from the month it launched (good ol 989 studio's and the $9.89 per month price tag)</p><p>EQ2 player from 2 months after it's launch.</p>

[Dasein]

Youris@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>dj2830 wrote:</cite><blockquote>One better How about an Enire guild that just sits and waits for different raid encounters, ruining the entire game for everyone. The game is made for everyone not just one guild on the Antonia Bayle server that feels it has to have everything. If this keeps on no one will get thier epics when Kunark comes out. The guild that starts with EI..... feels we should all bow to them because they are the Uber raiding guild. IMO thats what takes the fun out of this. And this is not just one opinion poll the server and mention the name, it's not a popular guild ...I won't give them the time of day. Sony make this stop or listen to us.</blockquote><p> Yes, many's the time I've been zipping around Lfay, searching for the elusive Succulent Root, blood boiling at the thought of the uber raiding guild that begins with 'EI' sitting.  Somewhere.  Waiting.  Yep.  Ruined my entire game!  </p><p>P.S.  Wow.  Bitter, much?</p></blockquote> It should not be possible for a single guild to monopolize contested raid mobs. Overall, I find the idea of contested raid mobs to be rather counter productive, as such content inevitably becomes monopolized by one or two guilds, whereas instanced content can be utilized by many guilds, raiding alliances and pick-up raids. Overall, I see contested raid encounters as a waste of development resources. All raid encounters should either be instanced or triggered, not contested.

[Lortet]

<p>My only experience with this was frustrating - doing the "Where will this lead me?" (I think) quest where the three named skeletons at the bottom of RoV must be killed - I was attempting to spawn them (you have to clear the neighboring room of a mob of about 6 -7 skellies etc for a small chance of spawning the named) - when I noticed the door to the room was opening and closing behind me - when I finally spawned one - a mage with a name created by a cat walking on the keyboard popped from invis and killed it - he had waited in the hall leading to the named. </p><p>I sent a fairly polite tell suggesting that if he wanted them he could spawn them himself and i actually got a reply - the cat was still walking on the keyboard as it was a mess of letters etc not in any language format. The sod then disappeared and it wasn't until I spawned another that I found he was still following - when he promptly nailed that one as well.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>An old familiar topic that pops up once a month or so more or less... And as usual, my feeling/opinions haven't changed.</p><p>How do you "steal" a contested mob? Let's take for the sake of example Quiora L'Tas (or w/e... spelling), the final named mob in Fallen Gate near the Vault. When she is up, she is claimable by anyone regardless of level, regardless of who you are grouped with, and regardless of how much trash you have killed. As most of you probably know, if you don't clear the room she spawns in, she will call for help from all the remaining mobs and they will all add when you pull her. So, most people seem to feel/think that just because they cleared all the adds in the room, this automatically entitles them to the *still* contested free-for-all named mob. </p><p>Good sportsmanship and consideration of your fellow gamers would obviously say, "that group killed all this trash to safely pull the named, we should let them take a pull... If they wipe, it's our turn but we will let them have first pull." But, good sportsmanship and politeness and consideration are a bonus... a blessing if you will... not required and not practiced by many players. There is nothing I'm aware of that states you must let another group have a mob if they were there first, or plan to kill it first, or have been clearing placeholders/trash for 50 days.</p><p>Contested means the mob is up for grabs and if there are other players after the same mob as you, then you have some competition. It doesn't matter if it's a level 70 killing some gray named just for fun (or spite), a single player farming all the named in Fallen Gate, or a full blown 6 man xp group. It's still contested and up for grabs by anyone. If you can't handle competition, and come crying on the message boards or make angry posts about some evil rude person "stole" your mob (that was not your mob and was completly up for grabs ie: contested), then I can only suggest you stick to instances where you will never have to compete for anything against another player. And yes, it is totally possible to level from 10-70 100% instanced. If you can't get out in a shared dungeon and actually compete for named mobs, then you won't get any of the nicer loot, but you can still get just as good xp in instances.</p><p>I have been in many many groups where the tank just sucked, and would stand around for a year waiting on God knows what, staring at some named while a farmer runs by and yanks it. Yea, it sucks and it's no fun to lose but that's the thrill of competition. You win some, you lose some. If you lose all the time, you need to work on how to become more competitive IMO. I personally, as well as many other players, have no problems actively competing for mobs against other players (using fair and legitimate gameplay and sportsmanship I might add. Not talking about training the other group, or Feign Deathing mobs onto them or any exploits). It doesn't matter if it's some bot group, plat sellers, single legitamite farmers, another full group... doesn't matter. </p><p>You can pull just as fast as anyone else, but there are some things that can help you out. Always roll with your encounters locked... there's absolutly no reason to have them unlocked when on a dungeon crawl hunting named. People will run by and swat a mob you have mezzed, or taunt a mob off of you and then run it off breaking the encoutner etc... Have a good scout that tracks for named mobs and nearby PCs to see if any competition is close... have some quit wits and a skilled group able to handle/lock down adds in the event you *must pull now* to get the named. And having a tank/puller that's worth a [Removed for Content] that actually knows how to play EQ2 (this can be really hard to find especially levels 1-40 and even up through higher levels).</p><p>Anyway... contested mobs are contested. Be prepared to actually have to compete and play hard to win that fat fabled exquisite chest cuz you aren't the only one that wants a shot at it. Don't get [Removed for Content] when someone doesn't just step aside and let you take your time dinking around until you're finally ready to take a pull on the named. And don't be surprised to find a stealthed scout lurking behind your group waiting on you till kill mobs in the way so they can pounce on the named. As a rule of thumb: if you see a named mob claim it as fast as possible. Named mobs generally don't live for very long in this game, and always play as if there's a stealthed scout waiting to pounce on it. You need to pull it as soon as you can, as soon as your group can safely kill it without wiping. Don't bother clearing other mobs in the room that aren't even in the way, or won't add... those trash mobs will still be there after the named is dead. If you walk into a room and find a named mob, that should be your ultimate target in the room, and your #1 priority. Anything you do, should in some way bring you 1 step closer to killing the named. You have to be quick and skilled to compete with others, and remember above all else, you will win some and lose some. </p><p>Next time you lose, ask yourself honestly first... was this mob contested, up for grabs, free for all? Regardless of how much trash you cleared or how many place holders you killed or if it's a quest mob or if it's a high level killing gray named (very rare but still possible), or anything else. If that mob was "yours" it would have spawned locked to your group. Chalk it up as a loss, blow it off, move on to the next mob. There will always be more named (and also competition for that next named).</p><p>I think the real reason we have so many posts about this "mob stealing" is most people are used to strolling through a dungeon taking their time, taking /afks when they feel like it, screwing around with little or no competition. When some competition they didn't even know was there pops in and yanks a named before they can even type "W T F?????", people that are used to this lax'd casual no competition gameplay are suddendly floored someone actually had the odacity to "steal" the mob they had intentions of killing in the next 20minutes or whenever the hell they got around to it.</p><p>A lot longer of a post than I intended, but I think it needed to be said <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You have no basis of complaining about another player killing a contested mob, quest related or not, regardless of how much trash you cleared, regardless of how many placeholders you killed, regardless of how long you've been camping. *Especially* not in Fallen Gate. If it's up for grabs and claimable by anyone, it's obviously not "your mob" as some of you seem to think.</p><p>That being said... is it bad style to yank a mob from another group they are obviously working to kill or have been camping since before you got there? sure. Is it against the rules or an invalid way of gameplay? nope. It's just competition, that's all it is. And when you have competition, there's good sportsmanship, and bad sportsmanship. Players have the freedom to conduct themselves however they want as long as they aren't breaking rules such as greifing, intentional training, exploting, etc. I don't know of any GM or game dev that would support a petition saying you got out pulled on a contested mob.</p>

[azekah]

You kind of contradicted yourself a bit there... It's not your mob...it's not against the rules...bla bla... but its unsportsmanlike to take it? I think your point was to say if someone takes it from you they have every right to, but you also admit that it would be considered rude if another group had done a lot of work to get to that point... The thing is, I think, the majority of players here at EQII are considerate. They have been through 3 hour dungeons themselves and know how hard it is to get to a named sometimes. And to have someone run up behind you and get to the named without doing all the work required if they had been there themselves is EXTREMELY frustrating and disappointing. We call it "STEALING" because it is something we have worked for, we have put in the time and effort only to have it STOLEN away from us in the end. So yea, I'm calling it stealing because that's what it is, and if you ever do that than you are a very inconsiderate person.

[Rahatmattata]

<p>Call it stealing if you want, or whatever else you want to call it. Call the guy that "stole" it from you an [Removed for Content], never group with him or his guild, and come make posts about it on the forums. It doesn't really matter either way.</p><p>It's contested.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You kind of contradicted yourself a bit there... It's not your mob...it's not against the rules...bla bla... but its unsportsmanlike to take it? </p><p><i>There's nothing contradictory about that... Even though it's not against SOE's rules, it might be kind of a butt move to take the named in the scenario I described. Even this is subject to individual opinion. Some people might not find it unsportsmanlike at all.</i></p><p>I think your point was to say if someone takes it from you they have every right to, but you also admit that it would be considered rude if another group had done a lot of work to get to that point...</p><p><i>Yea, that's pretty much how I personally feel about it.</i> </p><p> The thing is, I think, the majority of players here at EQII are considerate. They have been through 3 hour dungeons themselves and know how hard it is to get to a named sometimes.</p><p><i>I'm glad that most of the players you have come across are nice enough to yield to you and your group. For me (Antonia Bayle) the competition is healthy and I find that most players I come across won't think twice before yanking "my" named, and simply laugh when someone in my group complains about it. And so I won't hesistate to return the favor if/when I see them again. This is especially noticable in places like Fallen Gate and Mistmoore Catacombs, and even more so if it's a guild group.</i> </p><p> And to have someone run up behind you and get to the named without doing all the work required if they had been there themselves is EXTREMELY frustrating and disappointing.</p><p><i>I agree, and I suck it up, move on, and return the favor if I get the chance.</i> </p><p> We call it "STEALING" because it is something we have worked for, we have put in the time and effort only to have it STOLEN away from us in the end. So yea, <b>I'm calling it stealing because that's what it is</b>, and if you ever do that than you are a very inconsiderate person.</p><p><i>Except that it's *not* stealing cuz it was never your mob to begin with.</i> </p></blockquote>

[azekah]

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Call it stealing if you want, or whatever else you want to call it. Call the guy that "stole" it from you an [I cannot control my vocabulary], never group with him or his guild, and come make posts about it on the forums. It doesn't really matter either way.</p><p>It's contested.</p></blockquote>So are you saying we have no right to be mad at them? Or are you saying they have the right to be jerks?

[liveja]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Call it stealing if you want, or whatever else you want to call it. Call the guy that "stole" it from you an [I cannot control my vocabulary], never group with him or his guild, and come make posts about it on the forums. It doesn't really matter either way.</p><p>It's contested.</p></blockquote>So are you saying we have no right to be mad at them? Or are you saying they have the right to be jerks? </blockquote><p>He's basically saying that the "kill stealer" has the right to be a jerk (so long as they're not outright disrupting zones, that is) & that while you have the right to be mad about it, you need to understand that the mob doesn't "belong" to you. So go ahead & get mad, but realize it won't do any good, nor will posting about it help much.</p><p>Welcome to Contested Content. Enjoy your stay. </p>

[duranvaer]

<p>Imo - a solution to this might be to put a timer on the named(s) in contested areas, once a toon kills the named they would not be able to kill them again for say 24 hours.</p>

[azekah]

Obviously were not talking about breaking rules, were talking about being considerate... If you think there is nothing wrong with running into a room where another group is clearing mobs to get to a named, and taking the named before them, then you are a very selfish player. I never said anyone should be banned or anything for this, but common MMORPG courtesy would be to let the first group have it.

[Te'ana]

I had never seen much of this behavior until recently. Now I see groups of people deliberately  'stealing' my camped mob that I need for a quest just to cause a problem. These folks need to move to a PvP server where their behavior would be considered normal. I have also seen a rash of solo players stealing mobs that think "I'm sorry" will somehow make it all better. This newfound lack of civility is really making me unhappy. I have to deal with this stupid behavior too much in RL and don't twant to deal with it in a game that I play for fun. I wish I had a solution, but alas I don't. Lack of manners and rude behavior seem to be on the rise everywhere, so perhaps this is just a reflection of life in the fast lane to hades.

[Killerbee3000]

soe needs to nerf fd to have a longer reuse timer to prevent brawlers from bypassing trash to steal nameds... soe needs to make zones more dangerous so no one can follow a group on invis and then steal the nameds once the trash is cleared. the rest of the situations are winnable by being better at playing the game. that about sums it up.