Implode in raids

[jam3]

what do you guys think? im sort of scared to use in a raid because when my pet dies normally im dead next <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DobyMT]

<p>Easy.  Don't use it.  Ever.</p><p>The aggro generally isn't an issue, that's not why I wouldn't ever use it.  I wouln't ever use it because the DPS you lose in that amount o time is so much more substantial than the DPS you get fom a 2k AE nuke.  There isn't a single time that it would be apprpriate excep MAYBE f you knew an anavoidable AE was incoming, and you Imploded RIGHT at the same time, so you could get the 100% increased speed on the recast.  Other than that obscure and improbable situation, on't even have it on a hotbar unless you're using it for PvP.</p>

[khufure]

<cite>DobyMT wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Easy.  Don't use it.  Ever.</p><p>The aggro generally isn't an issue, that's not why I wouldn't ever use it.  I wouln't ever use it because the DPS you lose in that amount o time is so much more substantial than the DPS you get fom a 2k AE nuke.  There isn't a single time that it would be apprpriate excep MAYBE f you knew an anavoidable AE was incoming, and you Imploded RIGHT at the same time, so you could get the 100% increased speed on the recast.  Other than that obscure and improbable situation, on't even have it on a hotbar unless you're using it for PvP.</p></blockquote> Bubble.  The above situation wont happen with bubble.  However, you can use implode at the end of fights where you know you have 20s to rebuff.

[jam3]

<cite>khufure wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DobyMT wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Easy.  Don't use it.  Ever.</p><p>The aggro generally isn't an issue, that's not why I wouldn't ever use it.  I wouln't ever use it because the DPS you lose in that amount o time is so much more substantial than the DPS you get fom a 2k AE nuke.  There isn't a single time that it would be apprpriate excep MAYBE f you knew an anavoidable AE was incoming, and you Imploded RIGHT at the same time, so you could get the 100% increased speed on the recast.  Other than that obscure and improbable situation, on't even have it on a hotbar unless you're using it for PvP.</p></blockquote> Bubble.  The above situation wont happen with bubble.  However, you can use implode at the end of fights where you know you have 20s to rebuff. </blockquote> that would be when i would use it

[cowmable]

If your pet is about to die i think it would make sense to use it. Then you get the damage and the faster recast on the pet.

[Ji]

<p>In any raid enviroment if your pet dies you are in the wrong. You lose substantial dps by recasting. I know implode increases recast time but the pet is now unbuffed. Every second is important and if your not button mashing then your taking away from the target goin down.</p><p>I recommend instead, you focus on AE pet immunity, magic leash and that heal (forgot name but it's in the second spot of the wis line I believe). Those come in handy and far outweigh the productivity of AA spell usability.</p><p>Believe it or not that heal has saved our raid from wipes on countless occasions. I'm often in the MT group for mit buffs, resists and magic leash. So occasionally the healers are slow on the draw with healing the MT. So casting this at the last second gives them that extra second for them to do their thing. It also saves my butt quite often when I solo.</p>

[Ji]

What I forgot to add was pets. If you are constantly casting your mage pet during a raid then you need to change pets. Pet management is important because every time you recast you lose dps. If your mage pet keeps dying and scout pet keeps dying then use your tank pet. Casting only accounts for 50% of our dps. Having a pet up (of any kind) will maximize your damage output.

[Supernova17]

You are shooting yourself in the foot dps wise being in the MT group, there just isn't any good buffs up there compared to what a Troubador gives us. I've personally never picked the heal either. If my raid healers cannot keep their groups up on their own, they won't be in my guild long (this comming from a 70 Templar who has been raiding from the start of T5 to just after EoF when I switched raid mains to Conjy and from one who has a 70 Fury alt and groups with some of the best Defilers on the server, I know what healers are capable of with a good player at their controls).

[DobyMT]

Wow. Ok. Conjurors should never, I repeat NEVER be in an MT group. That's crippling your raid by probaby almost 1k dps there in itself. On top of that, if the raid leader is dumb enough for a Conj in MT group, most of the other groups are probably messed up as well. Implode, Wis heal, Bubble, Hydromancer, etc are all wastes of what we can be and are supposed to be - a DPS class. As a raiding Conjuror, you should be PM 1 STR 4-4-4-8 INT 8-7-4-8-1(2) in the Summoner line. In the Conj line, Unabate should be at first point possible, then the DPS line should be maxed in every slot. After that, EV and BA should be maxed out. The rest is fluff. I don't want to sound abrasive, but come on people, we have probably the funnest and greatest class in the game. Lets actually start believing that and playing like it. Let me say again, though, this is how a raiding conjuror should maximize DPS. Soloing and whatnot would go down a different path, one that I don't know as much about.

[jam3]

i would plan to use it as a named mob or something is around 5% health where i could kill the pet twice for some damage

[DobyMT]

Personally? I'd use incinerate if you really want that boost at the end there. With a troub and illusionist in your group, and casting EV as soon as it comes up, trust me, imploding is going to lose you dps, at 100%, 50%, or 5%

[Supernova17]

I filled out my Unabate line, but I also sorted my AA points around to max out Bubble too. I think Bubble will come in handy on the unavoidable AOE's, and all I have to do is make sure the pet is standing with me (which it usually is) and back it off for a couple of seconds before our AOE call. /shrug I dunno, but it's just 1 point and I was already in that tree anyway. Overall, Maxed Spell Crits - Arcane Minion - Empower Servant - Unabate line full except Frigid Winds - Bubble line with BA and EV maxed. Opted out of Enhance Mage Pet because TBH with the Master Mage pet and Unabate, you're already around 41-50% harder to resist (depending on the spell) and with other classes in the raid debuffing the mob...saves 5 points right there.

[napalmpt]

I have a question about raiding. Im not in a full time raiding guild, but we do like to hit labs and DT on weekends haven't worked up to the high end stuff yet but we are working on it. What i have seen is that in most teh raids most pulls are single pulls. probably 75% of them. I do run a parser while on these raids and am constantly in teh top 5 for dps and i use a scout pet. I chose to go with the wis for the increased melee and focus/disruption and the str line for my crits. I currently have my evo line full in conj for the reduced casting time except for frigid winds. I have looked at the spell differences between the scout and casting pet, I see that yes the fire pet does have some better spells for an encounter but lacks when it comes to single target. It's spells take longer to cast (5 out of 6 spells for scout pet are only half a second cast time). So on most raids like DT when the bosses are single wouldnt it make more sense to use a pet that focus on one target rather than multiple? I did have the agi and wis line set up for my scout pet for the crits and it seemed i always ran on par with other conjy's in the raid. His melee alone was doing about 1200 points of damage a round. Then add in his combat arts he was doing outragous damage. My usual dps is 1000 to 1400 per encounter and top dps is over 1800. I have never used a caster pet on a raid but was wondering what the average dps of a conj WITHOUT ubah high end gear parses during raids. And wondering why everyone favors the casting pet instead even though to me the dps seems to be about the same.

[DobyMT]

Overall, even on single target, your mage pet, depending on the tier of the spell will come out on top. Now if you have master scout, and ad3 mage, use scout. If you have master both use mage. If you have ad3 both use mage.

[InsertNeko]

I think I've used Implode three times, all three times with the mage pet on epics. The epic being under 5%, and my mage pet on his last 5-10% mana. Implode, and keep casting. It's a spell to use when that few seconds of dps aren't important.

[ZUES]

<p>Ok so "Napalmpt" aroused my curiousity after I read the post. I decided to give it a try and started saving my parses in ACT. What I found out was interesting. We did DT, Freethinks, LOA and a few small ones like crab, roost, etc.</p><p>Before testing this I had my ad3 fire pet [Removed for Content] out in every possible AA scenario. My ad3 scout was secondary so I didnt invest much into it. The above mentioned raids were done after a /respec that included all the crit, piercing and slashing junk for the scout pet. Unabate doesnt really matter at this junction but I did have points in it as well as the scout and earth lines. Unabate is over rated and if your into hard core raiding then it's a waste. But for this test I figured I would go with the casual playstyle setup. I tweaked the scout pet as much as possible.</p><p>The scout pet (surprisingly) had about a 10% overall damage output higher than the mage pet on single targets, With grouped mobs (rarely parsed with more than 3) the scout pet lost about 15%. I was also surprised at that because of the mage pets AE.</p><p>So overall performance is actually comforting because the scout has twice as many hitpoints as the mage pet. With being a one hit wonder on raids it costs me substantial dps to recast a pet and buff it. So when I take agro I cast confusing baubble (gnome racial trait that reduces threat 2000 or so) and the scout pet still lives. So ya you could say overall the scout increases dps potential on raid zones with few multiple target mobs (like freethinkers).</p><p>So with that said, I think I'm going to keep this setup. I've dropped a little behind on overall parse compared to the other conjy but its very little and he's convinced the change would prove more useful as well.</p><p>BTW.... bubble sucks dont waster your AA's! Intstead get the pet AE resist in summoner line. You'll use this alot more than bubble. Actually unabate kinda sucks too. I rarely ever get resisted but I typically raid and the mobs get debuffed. If your a solo guru go unabate. Sol Ro deity sucks since I'm going at it. Dont play follow the leader and use your own decision making abilities. I recommend Tunare.</p>

[napalmpt]

Ok i have begun some parsing myself. I can post the parses if you like but im going to keep it simple. keep in mind i respec'd and have no aa's in any pet abilities whatso ever. In a solo scenerio, buffed with only brand, fire seed and exsasperate. Me not casting any pet aid spells such as BA or EV on single target mobs, scout comes out on top. Fighting groups of mobs caster comes out on top. Soloing using spells such as BA and EV single targets, scout wins. Now this is surprising, soloing fighting group mobs using BA and EV scout also wins. Grouping with a full group, using NO pet aid spells, fighting single mobs scout wins. Grouped fighting single mobs with pet aid, scout wins. Grouped fighting groups no pet aid spells, cast pet wins, but only by about a 5 % margin. Grouped fighting groups, with pet aid spells it where it gets tricky. Using no pet aid spells, on groups of only 2, scout pet wins. On groups of 3 or more Cast pet wins. Using pet aid spells, on groups of 2 scout again wins, and groups of 3 or more, cast pet wins. So it seem that only on groups of at least 3 or more, is the only times that our cast pet has an advantage over our scout pet. Remember this is base pet with no aa's. For the next run, I will be putting aa's in the agi and the int line to see how they fair. And as just an fyi, i only have a3 of each, not master. And i have not had the chance to test any of this on a raid yet but plan on doing so when possible.

[napalmpt]

Hehe i did take the sol ro diety, I dont think its worked out too bad for me. I usually use ro's fury and wrath of the burning prince. With ro's fury everytime i cast a spell i do an extra 250 to 400 damage, And with the reduced spell timers and the blessing lasting 10 minutes thats a lot of extra dps. With wrath of burning prince, I usually pop it right before i hit fiery annihilation, and wind up having it crit for around 20k, couple times i have crit close to 30k and then crit every spell for regular crit damage after that.

[Traxor789]

<cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok so "Napalmpt" aroused my curiousity after I read the post. I decided to give it a try and started saving my parses in ACT. What I found out was interesting. We did DT, Freethinks, LOA and a few small ones like crab, roost, etc.</p><p>Before testing this I had my ad3 fire pet [Removed for Content] out in every possible AA scenario. My ad3 scout was secondary so I didnt invest much into it. The above mentioned raids were done after a /respec that included all the crit, piercing and slashing junk for the scout pet. Unabate doesnt really matter at this junction but I did have points in it as well as the scout and earth lines. Unabate is over rated and if your into hard core raiding then it's a waste. But for this test I figured I would go with the casual playstyle setup. I tweaked the scout pet as much as possible.</p><p>The scout pet (surprisingly) had about a 10% overall damage output higher than the mage pet on single targets, With grouped mobs (rarely parsed with more than 3) the scout pet lost about 15%. I was also surprised at that because of the mage pets AE.</p><p>So overall performance is actually comforting because the scout has twice as many hitpoints as the mage pet. With being a one hit wonder on raids it costs me substantial dps to recast a pet and buff it. So when I take agro I cast confusing baubble (gnome racial trait that reduces threat 2000 or so) and the scout pet still lives. So ya you could say overall the scout increases dps potential on raid zones with few multiple target mobs (like freethinkers).</p><p>So with that said, I think I'm going to keep this setup. I've dropped a little behind on overall parse compared to the other conjy but its very little and he's convinced the change would prove more useful as well.</p><p>BTW.... bubble sucks dont waster your AA's! Intstead get the pet AE resist in summoner line. You'll use this alot more than bubble. Actually unabate kinda sucks too. I rarely ever get resisted but I typically raid and the mobs get debuffed. If your a solo guru go unabate. Sol Ro deity sucks since I'm going at it. Dont play follow the leader and use your own decision making abilities. I recommend Tunare.</p></blockquote>Ok, so what you have said so far is that your pet had a 10% better out put of dps on single target over the mage pet what you didn not include is your group setup and ill explain why . If you had troubador in your group they have a around 12-17 sec buff called Precision of the Maestro that gives 100% spell proc to everyone in your group that cast spells(including your pet ) ok now they also have a buff which through AA's and The breast peice off of mayong give them a 52 % spell proc buff that is on you and you pet permanently. Are you seeing the benefits of Mage pet yet? ok if not. Ive seen my pet Single target nuke for 3.3k with sphere of flames devastating what ever you have it attacking . Note also that bard buffs through aa's get Dont kill the messenger wich is 7.5% crit to all of the crits. Now, your getting 52% all the time spell proc. 100 % spell proc every now and then , and crit buffs for your pet. bam . Perfect to raid 24/7 with mage pet. With Unabate and Bubble if your pet ever dies , or gets out parsed by a scout pet you are not playing your class correctly im sorry.

[Luhai]

So the result of your respec was an overall decrease of your DPS and you call that useful? My respec into str+int, Unabate+Bubble resulted in a zonewide DPS increase of more than 300. Thats what I call useful.

[ZUES]

<cite>Luhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>So the result of your respec was an overall decrease of your DPS and you call that useful? My respec into str+int, Unabate+Bubble resulted in a zonewide DPS increase of more than 300. Thats what I call useful. </blockquote><p> It was not a decrease in overall dps, just group mob dps. Overall zonewide dps increased nicely. But keep in mind I am not having to recast pet as much so that could be a contributing factor. I dont know any way to look in my old logs and see what my average pet death rate was at compared to my dps.</p><p>Pet melee resists are nearly unexistant. Typically those mobs that resist usually have a nasty AE. I was using my fighter pet and summoner AE resist for those mobs anyway, so that hasn't changed. I took my points from Unabate and got a hydromancer (mainly because I think it's a waste of AA points). I've watched closely and dont see ANY difference in parse. I'm glad I did also cause we did an Unrest run last night with a guard, fury, wizard, wizard and myself. Out heals were falling short but dps was there so hydromancer came in handy. That was my first time ever actually using it in a group and I was impressed. It's just a different playstyle that was somewhat challenging but kind of fun. BTW the planeshifted cobra is cool as hell.</p><p>I've been playing this conjy since shortly after release. I've played "follow the leader" with my setup because it's what my conjy friends recommended. I'm enjoying my recent exploration of my character so far. If anything, I have learned more about my classes potential. </p><p>I truly am intending on keeping my respec focused on my scout pet. Overall dps has increased and I'm having more less repair costs. With all the changes in the last 4-5 months I'm surprised there isnt more imput on this.</p>

[napalmpt]

<cite>Traxor789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok so "Napalmpt" aroused my curiousity after I read the post. I decided to give it a try and started saving my parses in ACT. What I found out was interesting. We did DT, Freethinks, LOA and a few small ones like crab, roost, etc.</p><p>Before testing this I had my ad3 fire pet [Removed for Content] out in every possible AA scenario. My ad3 scout was secondary so I didnt invest much into it. The above mentioned raids were done after a /respec that included all the crit, piercing and slashing junk for the scout pet. Unabate doesnt really matter at this junction but I did have points in it as well as the scout and earth lines. Unabate is over rated and if your into hard core raiding then it's a waste. But for this test I figured I would go with the casual playstyle setup. I tweaked the scout pet as much as possible.</p><p>The scout pet (surprisingly) had about a 10% overall damage output higher than the mage pet on single targets, With grouped mobs (rarely parsed with more than 3) the scout pet lost about 15%. I was also surprised at that because of the mage pets AE.</p><p>So overall performance is actually comforting because the scout has twice as many hitpoints as the mage pet. With being a one hit wonder on raids it costs me substantial dps to recast a pet and buff it. So when I take agro I cast confusing baubble (gnome racial trait that reduces threat 2000 or so) and the scout pet still lives. So ya you could say overall the scout increases dps potential on raid zones with few multiple target mobs (like freethinkers).</p><p>So with that said, I think I'm going to keep this setup. I've dropped a little behind on overall parse compared to the other conjy but its very little and he's convinced the change would prove more useful as well.</p><p>BTW.... bubble sucks dont waster your AA's! Intstead get the pet AE resist in summoner line. You'll use this alot more than bubble. Actually unabate kinda sucks too. I rarely ever get resisted but I typically raid and the mobs get debuffed. If your a solo guru go unabate. Sol Ro deity sucks since I'm going at it. Dont play follow the leader and use your own decision making abilities. I recommend Tunare.</p></blockquote>Ok, so what you have said so far is that your pet had a 10% better out put of dps on single target over the mage pet what you didn not include is your group setup and ill explain why . If you had troubador in your group they have a around 12-17 sec buff called Precision of the Maestro that gives 100% spell proc to everyone in your group that cast spells(including your pet ) ok now they also have a buff which through AA's and The breast peice off of mayong give them a 52 % spell proc buff that is on you and you pet permanently. Are you seeing the benefits of Mage pet yet? ok if not. Ive seen my pet Single target nuke for 3.3k with sphere of flames devastating what ever you have it attacking . Note also that bard buffs through aa's get Dont kill the messenger wich is 7.5% crit to all of the crits. Now, your getting 52% all the time spell proc. 100 % spell proc every now and then , and crit buffs for your pet. bam . Perfect to raid 24/7 with mage pet. With Unabate and Bubble if your pet ever dies , or gets out parsed by a scout pet you are not playing your class correctly im sorry.Troub </blockquote><p>Troubs or brigs have jsut as many buffs for melee as well, COB i think is what its refered to? gives outragious haste for like 17 secs? Im not sure im never played a bard i just know that when they hit this in a group everyone jsut melees. Im not sure what you getting at for the 52% spell proc. Whether you have a caster or a melee they still get the buff. are you saying it only procs if a spell is cast? or anytime your pet takes hostile action? If that is so the scout pet gets in more hit than a caster pet can cast spells, so in theory it would proc more... and the 7.5 to crits is for jsut spells or spells and melee, im not getting certain details in everything your trying to explain... and just as a point in 2 secs i have seen my pet use his "ice storm" combat are which hits for 1.5k and hit fury storm 6 hits for around 400 a piece so thats 3.9 k and thats NOT criting...  1905 dps in ob tonight =) no chanty no bard just me and my pet =) </p><p>... one last question, is it just pure casters in groups with troubs and brigs? or are there melee too. are they just casting spells that will benefit ONLY caster or are that using spells that will benefit casters AND melee? </p><p><quote>100 % spell proc every now and then</quote> if its a 100 % spell proc, shouldnt you get it 100% of the time?</p>

[Jal]

Dirge = Cob - 48% haste (iirc) for 12 sec which can be extended to 17 and procs damage every successful melee hit. Troub = PoM - Damage on every successful hostile spell cast during the time its up, i believe it adds to int aswell but cant remember. Both have access to DKTM in the end of the WIS line of the bard AA's which gives 7.5% crit to melee, spells, heals and ranged.

[DobyMT]

<p>Its been tested ad nauseum.  I had to format my HD several months ago, and lost all of my testing logs and the results, but the Mage pet will always do more dps in a raid environment than the scout pet.  The scout pet will win in groups and such because of the cast time on the mage pet.  But if you're in a decent raid group, and have a Troub, unless for some crazy reason you need the scout pet, then the mage pet will win without any doubt whatsoever.</p><p>Its not really good mechanics, because as we are a pet class, there should be times that we have to switch out pets for strategy.  But, besides the 10 second cast for pets(or 7 if you took the AAs) we have a ton of buffs to throw up as well.  For my mage pet, there are at least 6 I think.  Scout pet is only around 4, but that's still alot to get them up and running, and hotswapping them just kills our DPS. </p><p>Best bang for your buck, and to best perform your job on a raid which is DPSing, Mage pet is always the way to go.  On top of that, NOT Imploding is best for your DPS.</p>

[Supernova17]

napalmpt wrote:<blockquote><p>Im not sure im never played a bard </p><p>... one last question, is it just pure casters in groups with troubs and brigs? </p> </blockquote>Then let the Bards, or those who raid with Bards (see how the groups are built around them) do the talking. Brigs do nothing for DPS Mages (they are DPS / Debuff Scouts!!!) and vice versa except for a small damage proc we can put on melee classes. Anyway, ZUES Troubador's are built for casters, plain and simple. If you don't know this then shame on you and your raid leader. If you use your tank pet on raids over the Mage pet because of AOE's and refuse to get Bubble which costs 1 point and is at the end of a good AA line and have yet to discover the /ranged command, then shame on you. If you squander points in the Enhance pet section and yet call yourself a pure DPS Conj build, absolute shame on you. If you think having the Scout pet out when a Troubador is in the group, where you get double the bonuses with the Mage pet out, holy crap delete now.

[napalmpt]

well i guess to each his own. like i said we arent a full time raid guild i do a lot of solo and grouping content so i built my toon to best suit how i play. Yes I do like being at the top of the dps chart and how i configured my toon im there now any way but one of my original questions wasnt asnwered. How much ext dps do you guy usually do on a raid?

[Supernova17]

It all depends on how you're setup, geared, etc etc and the mobs you're up against. I've parsed as crappy as 1200 zonewide with no mana regen (ie no Troubador either) while pulling quickly and as high as 2400 zonewide with an awesome group tailor made for Mages. The bar for any DPS class seems to be 2k dps, the closer you can get to it (or exceed it) they better you are doing. Then there are zones like Freethinkers Hideout where the final two named you really can't do full out burns and this really brings down the zonewide dps. Shoot for 2k imo. Shoot higher on long fights, esp names. I'm usually between 2200 and 2700 on longer fights with 1-2 mobs in the encounter, and I've hit 3500 on the trash grouped mobs in FTH (Warlock was 4700 lol) right before Othysius all the way up to 5300 in Lyceum on the 10 or so trash mobs linked before Villucide. We can do some sick things, but 2k is the normal bar for me.

[Luhai]

Yeah, the right setup helps a lot. When I'm stuck in the MT group or similar groups without any useful buffs (usually on pickup raids) my zone DPS ranges from  1100-1300. There is no "I usually parse this and that" since the group setup varies, but last night in FTH I parsed 1700, including Treyloth and Malkonis. This group included a troub, fury, illu, warlock.

[Supernova17]

Yeah, last FTH run I only had a Troub and we, um, had issues on our first Treyloth / Malkonis pulls (/cough positioning /cough bats / cough) and had to kill them on the second pulls after a stern talking to and I got a measly 1200 zonewide. By counting out those two fights where you can't really dps effectively, I was sitting at 2100 zonewide with 2338 on Othysius and 2100 on Zyphlax. Just goes to show you slow dps fights and newbie wipes can really hurt your parse.

[napalmpt]

<p>I think the reason the parse so high for air pet is because 1: Fire seed. it has a chance to proc everytime he uses a combat art OR takes a melee swing. And he swings alot. I put all 5 aa into it so it has a 25% chance to proc. While with the caster pet it only counts on casted spells if you use /pet ranged. 2nd with his crit boosted to almost 14 % add in dktm (yes its for melee too) i saw him crit tonight for almost 1200 pionts in ONE melee swing. so if he takes 2 swings a second he has a chance to crit on both of those and a 50% chance to proc fire seed all in one sec. Now throw in his combat arts that all cast in under half a second. Sure the caster pet is good for groups and can deal out some good group damage but the scout pet dishes out just as much only to a single target. Other than my spells i dont run the risk of pulling any agg other than what the MA is on. and i jsut pop my distracting stike every chance it pops up i am one of the last people to get agg even though im always in the first 4 in the dps parse</p><p>PS the crit chance we get from the agi tree also includes the chance to crit on combat arts and does get teh bonus with DKTM</p><p>*with only a troub in the group tonight i ran a constant 1400's tonight. not bad for someone who has only 1 peice of fabled gear.</p>

[nitrous]

<cite>DobyMT wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow. Ok. Conjurors should never, I repeat NEVER be in an MT group. That's crippling your raid by probaby almost 1k dps there in itself. On top of that, if the raid leader is dumb enough for a Conj in MT group, most of the other groups are probably messed up as well. Implode, Wis heal, Bubble, Hydromancer, etc are all wastes of what we can be and are supposed to be - a DPS class. As a raiding Conjuror, you should be PM 1 STR 4-4-4-8 INT 8-7-4-8-1(2) in the Summoner line. In the Conj line, Unabate should be at first point possible, then the DPS line should be maxed in every slot. After that, EV and BA should be maxed out. The rest is fluff. I don't want to sound abrasive, but come on people, we have probably the funnest and greatest class in the game. Lets actually start believing that and playing like it. Let me say again, though, this is how a raiding conjuror should maximize DPS. Soloing and whatnot would go down a different path, one that I don't know as much about.</blockquote><p>Well, I like to raid but I am not a raider if that makes any since.   I am guessing most of my time is soloing with some grouping and a Raid tossed in now and again for good measure.   The Hydromancer pet appears to be very mis-understood.   Lately when I have been grouping, if we have decent DPS to beging with, I have been using the Hydromancer as a baby second healer.    I have been doing all out DPS (minue a DPS pet) then.   The Hydromancer has group AE Wards, AE Heals, AE de-taunts for all classes (except fighters) which help the MT keep agro even that much better and allowing the group DPS'ers to go out that much more.    While the Hydromancer will never ever (nor should it) repalce a player healer it is a nice subsutite.  </p><p>Lately I have been in groups where the MT had a Conj alt and got rid of the Hydromancer pet as a waste of time.    After seeing how it works on the group and it's ability to help the main healer he went and respeced the AA's to get the Hydromancer pet back.     </p><p>Is the Hydromancer right for every use or situation?   Of course not, only the player can decided if they want to use it or need it or not.   But for me when soloing (main thing I do) I use my tank pet and most of my AA's go to that end (STA and WIS) lines.    When grouping I use my Mage or Hydromancer pets and seldom use the scout pet.   For raiding it is almost always the mage pet but they die a lot to AE's.</p>