A question for the higher level Templars out there. [Archive]

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StaboCA

03-08-2007, 02:18 PM

Overall I think I’m a reasonably proficient templar. I’m not in an uber raiding guild or anything, but I do raid Labs/DT on a weekly basis and manage to pull my own weight. The rest of my time is spent in groups mostly doing instances. I never, ever solo. But there are a handful of Templar spells that I know I’m probably not using to their full potential or maybe as often as I should. I guess in some cases they aren’t worth using, but it’s just as likely that I haven’t stumbled upon or figured out the optimal situation to use them. So I thought I’d ask you all when and where you use the following spells and how helpful you find them? Focused Intercession – I almost never use this one, primarily because of the immobilization component. In groups and raids I’m usually so busy throwing up debuffs, lottos, reverence, reactives and casting spot heals that this one doesn’t seem that useful. Complacency –I virtually never have agro issues so the hate reduction isn’t that important for me, and groups/raids loving using their AOE’s, so I don’t see much use there. Is this more of a soloing thing? Glory of Battle – This one I go back and forth on, and often skip it in favor of throwing my big HP buff on an extra member of the group (usually a healer). While the Mark & Involuntary lines seem to proc often, I haven’t noticed this one proc’ing much. When I do cast it I usually throw it on a scout class. If the proc rate has changed significantly I might use it more often. Blaze of Faith – Seems a power suck in most situations, costs too much power for the limited damage it does. It might be handy when you have a lot of grouped adds, but since its target group specific - as opposed to area specific – it seems to be of little use in those situations also. Detect Evil – Never cast this thing once. Soothe - Usually I'm either going around a mob or killing it. Not sure when I'd want to soothe it. Also, when trying to play/test this spell I've sometimes drawn proximity agro when trying to get into range to cast it. Divine Arbitration - In those "Oh #@%&!!" moments when it looks like the tank is going down and I've only got a split second I'm usually stabbing at the Forgiving Salvation button instead of this one. I am starting to use this more frequently now that I'd paired it in a macro with my group heal. (Group heal because the direct heal timers are often recharging when I use Arbitration.) Any advice or suggestions on how I could better use these spells would be appreciated. Thanks!!!

Mabes

03-08-2007, 02:47 PM

I'll throw in my opinions:Focused Intercession: I love this spell, it's great for tough fights that have lots of mobs. The groups of six mobs in freethinkers is a good example, or the DT worm trap that has a bunch of worms. It heals for a whole lot, and it stacks with our other two reactives, and you can always just cancel it once you cast if you need to cast something else.Complacency: For raiding, yeah with a good tank you won't get aggro much, so you won't use it much, however if you do get aggro, it's a lifesaver. I personally don't use it much on raiding, use it a little more while grouping. Another good use for it is in duels with classes that have swarm pets.Glory of Battle: There's some disagreement about this spell amongst templars, but I agree it's not that useful, but I still think it's useful enough to have on at least one person in the group. If you have achievement points in it, and the blessings increased proc achievement, then it will heal more often. But still, it only does about 3-4% of my zonewide heals.Blaze of Faith: In raids, yeah I won't use this, unless the healing is easy and I'm bored so throwing out some dps. Only use it on groups of mobs.Detect Evil: Yeah, this is just a fluff spell, and a waste of programming in my opinion.Soothe: Useless on raids unless you put achievement points into it, but it's pretty handy for solo'ing. You can avoid a lot of mobs and get places without having to fight with this.Divine Arbitration: Yeah, I don't really use this as an emergency type spell, however it does have one real nice use. The spell can be cast zonewide, so if one of your group members is on the other side of the zone and dying, you can heal him up some from anywhere in the zone.There's my 2cp

Eriol

03-08-2007, 03:34 PM

I basically agree with mabes. Focused Intercession is the "oh crap" spell that you use when the tank has agro, but you just can't get your other spells up fast enough (timers, cast time, whatever). It provides a massive amount of healing that will usually cope with anything except slow, massive-hit mobs, in which case you WOULD have enough time to hit other heals anyways. Blaze of Faith is only useful when you have a LOT of mobs, with little healing required. And if you have the reduced cast-time and recast timers for your two primary nukes, then this becomes only useful with REALLY large groups (4-5+). And only use when you're not getting hit, because the large cast time is likely to be interrupted. Complacency is when you do NOT have a competent tank, or the tank is just taking such a massive amount of damage that you get heal agro from the adds. So if you're with a super-solid group, you'll never use it. If you're more on the edge, it'll get a workout. The rest I basically agree.

Occam

03-08-2007, 05:29 PM

My 2 copper:Focused Intercession - Rarely use it, but it can be useful on extremely hard hitting mobs. 3 stacking reactives will take care of just about anything but the meanest baddies.Complacency - I don't think I've ever used it on a raid. It's extremely useful in single groups at times though. This can save the day on a bad pull where you get heal agro.Glory of Battle - I'm with you on this one. I typically stick with other buffs, but I'll try it more when I've put some AA's into it.Blaze of Faith - Got an old L&L that you never finished? Pop a couple of these off on groups of kobolds in BB and you'll be done before too long. Not real useful otherwise, as we're really not geared towards DPS anyway.Detect Evil - This is still in the game??!!Soothe - Of all the spells you've asked about, this is far and above the one I utilize the most often. I love surprising friends by showing up in places that they'd never expect to see someone alone. One of the tanks I often group with has come to really appreciate this spell as well, especially when he's pulling something tricky. Soothe the mob nearest the one he's trying to pull, and voila! Single pull.Divine Arbitration - Thank you Mabe, I never realized this could be used zonewide, I'm going to have to remember. I rarely use this other then by accident (I really do need to move that hotkey...) but when I do it's almost never for the tank. Forgiving Salvation is my first choice for tanks, but DA is good for when casters get agro, especially if you don't want to, or have already used your FS.

Hopefulne

03-08-2007, 06:32 PM

My turn <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Focused Intercession - I like this spell. Useful when the tank is pulling lots of mobs (I'm usually grping with a pally who like to tank entire rooms at a time.) on raids I tend not to simply because it isn't necessary. Complacency - Again i like this spell-not for the deaggro (90% of tanks i'm with don't have aggro issues with me over any1 else like say wizzies) but for the 6 second mez. Your aforementioned wizzie has decided to yank aggro-give the tank some help by mezzing for 6 seconds. Gives people the most important stat - time!Glory - Oh so many discussions on this forum about who this should be cast on, is it worth it over a redoubt buff...My answer is who, apart from the MT, needs more HP when the melee could be proccing a grp heal. Sure on the short delay equipped it doesn't proc much but in a melee heavy grp (with a zerker OMG i love having these about) it can halve my workload. Blaze of Faith - Encounter locked, mediocre damage and with a longer cast time i don't use outside of really easy encounters. and i mean really easy!Detect evil - Short of double teaming with a pally's smite evil (which works on neutral mobs as well fyi) this is by far the most unfun ''fun'' spell i know of. Even my faith respect (lower level toons bow on command) gets more use (macro'd up once that person is bowed ALL the fun spells come out) Maybe, possibly, SOMEHOW it might be useful or ''fun'' in pvp but it doesn't seem to show up outside of melee rangeSoothe - Never really wanted it aa boosted since the cast time is too long to save anyone especially when there are faster casting OH ^*%& spells. (it doesn't work against epics-at least non aa boosted /shrug) Great for sneaking past mobs in places like loping plains. Like Occam said i have found it useful for the roamer add as well.Divine Arbitration - I have never really used this spell when needed. Those other buttons just keep seeming to get in the way. Have used it to scare tanks when out off combat, they tend to panic when they drop into the yellow without seeing anything. More of a fun spell than detect evil IMO. Even tho it zone wide most squishies tend to drop before the ui registers them having taken damage unless i'm targeting them

D0niel

03-09-2007, 01:34 PM

Focused Intercession: I find this spell very useful when I'm in a raid and I can't figure out who is overwriting my reactives (which seems to go beyond just inquisitor and templars now...I can't figure out what it is but it appears to be the hitpoint regen line from Fury that is now overwriting the reactives) . If I notice in the parser and on my icons that my reactives are being overwritten I will do the following: cast group reactive, cast single target reactive, cast reverence, cast focused intercession...if done very quickly they can't be overwritten and you will see them all take effect until they expire. Appears when done in exact order even if someone were trying very hard they can't overwrite, it puts a lock on the heals.Complacency: I use this in those situations when the wizzy almost takes a fall and the heal agro from saving them comes over to me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Glory of battle: I use it on melee chars. the most when not in MT group. Never really sure how much it's helping....parser shows it to be relatively few procs but any heal is better then no healBlaze of Faith: used rarely but kind of fun with lots of grouped mobsDetect evil: oh forgot that was in my spell book. Completely useless.Soothe: tried to play with this last night when solo in SOS, but appears that if you have two linked mobs when you cast it on one then the next one the original is expired. Still trying to find a use for this.Divine Arbitration: Tried this 3 times each time it scared the heck out of me because it almost killed the casters in my group. Really don't understand the situations when this is useful.

SenorPhrog

03-09-2007, 04:45 PM

Focused Intercession - It's a lot more powerful than Glorious Intercession so I drop it in addition to Glorious when the tank is getting hit for more than I like then to.Complacency - When I'm getting beat on so much I can't get a spell off. This one is kind of a no brainer. I mean yeah we wear plate, but if you are fixing to die or keep getting interrupted, pop it off. Can also be used when pre-reactive someone who's taunt gets resisted on the pull.Glory of Battle - Meh...I sometimes weigh between using this and our HP buff. If I do use it, it's on a high DPS scout or Monk/Bruiser who swings a lot. It just depends.Blaze of Faith - Hardly ever use it. Encounter wide it's helpful but honestly my other nukes cast so fast I never get around to it.Detect Evil - Is that a fun spell? I should totally go buy that for....why?Soothe - Useful for solo quests or shiny grabbing where you don't want to aggro a mob too close.Divine Arbitration - Pure emergency spell in my mind. Tank is almost dead, rest of the group at full health, pop it off and save the day. I don't use it much.

Calare

03-09-2007, 04:46 PM

I'm a raider and don't do a lot of grouping and whatnot but I'll throw my couple cents out there for the hell of it and I'm bored as F*** at work.Focused Intercession - I used to use this a lot more often before I got manaregen better. It is a good intermiten heal while you're waiting for manastone to recharge and have nothing else to use. I think I use it more often in group settings than raid settings.Complacency - Since the addition of "aggression" it seems that I pull a lot less aggro. I do use it quite a bit actually (and not cause we have crappy tanks). Many mobs that spawn adds will often come towards me during raids and I like to have it so I can get them at least stunned until the off tank can come get them.Glory of Battle - I almost always have it on someone. Usually I either put it on the main tank, assassins or any other tank types that might be in my group (I'm almost always in the MT group so the pickings are usually slim). I find that being in a MT group I can allready cast redoubt on two ppl, rarely will there be a third that NEEDS the extra HP and especially when there are assassins in the group. That extra heal is a nice little boost now and again.Blaze of Faith - When I'm soloing or grouping I will use this more often than during raids. Soloing if you arent DPS speced you need all the dps you can get. Problems I've found with using it during raids is either 1) the adds die way too fast for you even to get it cast or 2) mobs have way too HP and it really is pointless to cast cause it's not even gonna make a dent in the mob.Detect Evil - I didn't even know this was a spell.Soothe - I like this from an exploratory standpoint. From a raiding standpoint it's pretty much useless. You can't soothe epic targets and thats all you're really gonna encounter unless its an add that's automatically aggro anyway.Divine Arbitration - I hate this spell so much. All the times I've tried to use it I've ended up killing the rest of my group in the process. I agree with someone previous that I'm gonna be spamming the forgiving salvation button in those oh crap moments. Maybe my timing is just horrible but I've thought about removing this all together from my hotbars cause then I hit it accidentally and screw everything up anyway. We did have another templar that used it a lot.I think that Focused Intercession and Divine Arbitration in particular are spells that use is going to vary from player to player.Thank you for allowing me to waste some time at work posting this response I really do appreciate it. Calare Nebra70 TemplarParagon GuildEverfrost

ParlMoebius

03-12-2007, 12:22 PM

<ul><li>Focused Intercession - It kills me to see people say they dont use this spell. It's not perfect for every scenario, but I generally use it at least once a fight, except when soloing. The only time I use it soloing is when Im getting hit by too many mobs, getting interrupted and need an emergency fill out on the heal. Yes, it does stun you, but you can cancel the spell easily enough by clicking it again once the health is topped off, or you need to redirect your attention to another group mate. The healing potential is incredible for this. </li><li>Complacency - This serves little purpose if you're soloing. I find that using focused intercession can often pull aggro in group settings, so have this spell handy </li><li>Glory of Battle - I usually use this, if there is a fast attack class in the group. It really depends on the situation. If theyre fast hard hitting fights, I'll go for the buff. If theyre long, brutal, power draining fights, I'll opt for the proc heal. </li><li>Blaze of Faith - Its primarily a soloing tool in my opinion. I do use it, but generally only against weaker conned mobs, in groups where I'm getting some bang for the power/time expenditure. We have few tools against numbers, this is one of the few. I use it in groups as well occasionally, if we're a little short on DPS. </li><li>Detect Evil - Dumb. </li><li>Soothe - I love this spell. Use it soloing, to keep adds off; I use it when harvesting or travelling to prevent unwanted fights; I use it in groups to prevent that caster who's standing out in the hallway not watching his back from getting unexpected company. One of the biggest problems with this is simply others not realizing what it is, getting confused when the mob just goes non-aggro out of the blue, they run up to its face and pull its aggro, or taunt it out. </li><li>Divine Arbitration - This is the only one that I dont use regularly. It has its uses, mostly whats been stated here already.</li></ul>

da5idblacksun

03-12-2007, 03:21 PM

Focused Intercession is great for when you are running out of power near the end of fight.

Occam

03-12-2007, 06:26 PM

I had some fun with DA this weekend. I had a group full of casters and I was waiting outside Valdoons for them to zone into LP from Gfay. Once they were all in the zone I jumped all the way down from the entrance, doing over 5.5k damage to myself, then hit my DA. It took them a minute (and just a touch of panic) to figure out why everyones HP had just plummetted. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Tash 1

03-13-2007, 05:11 AM

I actually use Focused Intercession rather quick in the hard encounters since I find it most often that the first few seconds of the fight are the most critical. Large amount of spike damage incoming at the tank, The debuffs are not up yet and the healers haven't got the flow of incoming heals up right yet. So I usually drop group reactive(if allowed) Sanctuary at pull (if needed) Single reactive and then Focused Intercession. This will keep the tank up and well and when the reactives wear of the mob will be debuffed and all healers should have their heals incoming in a flow.Only risk is I get aggro but seem that the tank handles it just ok./hugs Tash

hanfr

03-13-2007, 08:44 AM

I'd never use Focused Intercession when pulling a mob b/c you often need direct heals at the beginning and you want to debuff the mob asap which you can't do when self-stunned. Focused Intercession is great when fighting mobs that a) hit very hard and b) very fast or if you are engaging large grps of mobs like the Amygdalans in Lyceum before nerf. It's pretty cool to when you are on low mana but if your mana management is right, this won't occure that often. FI is a good choice too when you are going to be stifled e.g. fighting the 2nd named in FTH when your Sanctuary isn't up and get stifled.

Antryg Mistrose

03-13-2007, 09:11 AM

Most everything is already said, so just a couple of extra points: <ul><li>Focused Intercession is useful for soloing group mobs - combine it with a Damage Shield Potion, and watch the suckers kill themselves. Getting the potion cast without interrupts can be a bit tricky though, as I normally use this tactic when I'm getting desperate, rather than plan for it at the start of the fight. ( I lasted longer in the Marr diety quest than I bet most tanks did when the adds kept popping) </li><li>The Stun part of Complacency does not work on epics, but the Deaggro does. I've found that useful on many raids, especially when I had to go all out on healing, due to the lack of a shaman, or had to heal (being the only cleric) two separate tanks. </li><li>Focused Intercession is NOT > Dire + Glorious, and Glorious doesn't last many hits, so I rarely used Focused on raids. When I did I tried to get Dire up first too. Radiance + Benificense + Focussed is some serious healing that can be cast in < 1sec, or when you've just been rezzed or are on your last dregs of power.</li><li>Divine Arbitration is a bit mixed - it takes too long to cast, and will often land just after a Paladin has done "Lay of Hands" on a raid, but its very useful in groups. For Mages its basically a full heal, even for Tanks its situationally the biggest heal we have. I wouldn't bother with it below Adept3 though, as it loses too much of the groups health at lower qualities. </li></ul>

Maryk

03-13-2007, 05:04 PM

I had never really used Soothe before...started last night...seemed to work nice.

Whitemane

03-15-2007, 01:51 AM

StaboCA wrote: <blockquote>StaboCA wrote:302761644Overall I think I'm a reasonably proficient templar. I'm not in an uber raiding guild or anything, but I do raid Labs/DT on a weekly basis and manage to pull my own weight. The rest of my time is spent in groups mostly doing instances. I never, ever solo. But there are a handful of Templar spells that I know I'm probably not using to their full potential or maybe as often as I should. I guess in some cases they aren't worth using, but it's just as likely that I haven't stumbled upon or figured out the optimal situation to use them. So I thought I'd ask you all when and where you use the following spells and how helpful you find them? Focused Intercession - I almost never use this one, primarily because of the immobilization component. In groups and raids I'm usually so busy throwing up debuffs, lottos, reverence, reactives and casting spot heals that this one doesn't seem that useful. Very Useful spell. I do not like the stun component too it so I don't use it on the pull or anything like that where I may need to react quickly. Its great for fights where I need a break to regen some power etc. Though with the Templar EoF set bonus it's a bit less useful though still a very hand spell Complacency -I virtually never have agro issues so the hate reduction isn't that important for me, and groups/raids loving using their AOE's, so I don't see much use there. Is this more of a soloing thing? Pretty pointless solo =D. However I use this A LOT in Raids and in groups. Very very useful for memwipes / blurs. Glory of Battle - This one I go back and forth on, and often skip it in favor of throwing my big HP buff on an extra member of the group (usually a healer). While the Mark & Involuntary lines seem to proc often, I haven't noticed this one proc'ing much. When I do cast it I usually throw it on a scout class. If the proc rate has changed significantly I might use it more often.That's how I use it. Before the proc changes this used to be a lot better. With Blessings AA its ... ok. I use it on the assassin but depending on the encounter use Holy redoubt over it. Middle usefulness borderline in need of a buff. Blaze of Faith - Seems a power suck in most situations, costs too much power for the limited damage it does. It might be handy when you have a lot of grouped adds, but since its target group specific - as opposed to area specific - it seems to be of little use in those situations also.I cast this along with me OMGZ UBAH TEMPLAR AOE's INCOMING OH NOES TEH AGROS TEH PAIN?! Macro. It makes the dps giggle a bit. ( translation I use it occasionally when I'm soloing or bored ) Not a commonly cast spell too slow for too little DPS Detect Evil - Never cast this thing once.This a new spell? ;p Soothe - Usually I'm either going around a mob or killing it. Not sure when I'd want to soothe it. Also, when trying to play/test this spell I've sometimes drawn proximity agro when trying to get into range to cast it. Useful when harvesting and if you have the AA line situationally very useful for memwipe/blur or trigger happy dps. Its not pacify from EQ1 by any stretch but still pretty handy. Handy in group runs where you don't want to deal with the roamer pathing your way as well. Divine Arbitration - In those "Oh #@%&!!" moments when it looks like the tank is going down and I've only got a split second I'm usually stabbing at the Forgiving Salvation button instead of this one. I am starting to use this more frequently now that I'd paired it in a macro with my group heal. (Group heal because the direct heal timers are often recharging when I use Arbitration.)VERY handy spell that will kill your group if you use it at the wrong time. As mentioned its zone wide so handy for the person training your way what have you. You are correct though forgiving salvation is usually used in advance of this but still it is quite useful ( AoE timers is your friend ;p ) but this is a good spell for mobs such as say treyloth if someone doesn't cure quick enough or something along that lines. Its very situational Any advice or suggestions on how I could better use these spells would be appreciated. Thanks!!! </blockquote>

Hopefulne

03-21-2007, 02:49 AM

Soothe - THE reason to take a cleric into Unrest. Makes getting the shard dudes without adds so much easier

Ceolus

03-23-2007, 03:07 PM

I think you guys are crazy..I LOVE Divine Arbitration. As long as it's A3, it will never fail you..I mainly use it for when a player other than the tank is near death and dying very quick..everyone gets almost completely healed and the tank takes only a little damage which is easy to handle. It's been a life saver many times for me. Since the tank has the most health, his gets spread out amongst the others to "even out".

EQPrime

03-26-2007, 04:36 PM

I'm a huge fan of focused intercession, given the right situation. If there are 3 or more mobs in a raid or group situation it's a very effective heal. In such occasions, especially early in the fight before everything is fully debuffed, Dire and Glorious often drop before their recasts have refreshed. I try to time Dire on the pull then use glorious, throw in Spurn (and maybe involuntary restoration if there's time) then fire off FI. In group situations FI can generate a ton of hate, especially on multiple-encounter pulls. I try to mix in complacency either right before or right after using FI in this case.This is not a good spell to use on solo, hard hitting, slow attacking mobs like corsolander, Vilucidae, the shredder guy in Freethinkers, etc. In those fights I'd only use it if I were out of power and couldn't keep both glorious and dire up. It's semi-useful against mobs that stun/fear once sanctuary drops.I use soothe all the time, especially in instances with lots of social aggro. It makes pulling so much easier for the tank. It's very nice for harvesting too.Divine Arbitration - I'm still not very good at this. It seems that whenever I use this in a raid a monk or pally has just hit the tank with his big heal right before it lands. I still go for forgiving salvation first but I'm trying to get a better feel for arbitration as well.