Arrows working as intendet?

[Sham07]

Ive done some testing and got some issues with arrows in their current form. Ive shot 300 arrows ( of each - 900 total) with a skill of 361 (defensive stance) on a lvl 67*** mob ( with a dragonhorn recurve bow). All proc gear removed -> just plain autoattack: Bodkin: +111 pierce; +10%hit   hit% - 64,36%   average hit - 1238,58   Min.Hit - 611   Max.Hit - 2047 Field Point: +74 crush; +50%hit   hit% - 65,33%   average hit - 1204,99   Min.Hit - 576   Max.Hit - 1995 Broadhead: +148 slash; -5%hit   hit% - 71,33%   average hit - 1322,31   Min.Hit - 674   Max.Hit - 2082 The numbers speak for themselves. While the damage seems to add up to the base damage along the right line the to-hit-chance doesnt seem to be taken into account properly. Even without the parser running in the background the arrows that should have hit less hit noticable more than the others.... and did a lot more damage as well. Also: My ranged attack rating in defensive stance during these test runs was 718. Switching to offensive (from skill 361-403) did increase my attack rating from 718 to 751.  So did any increase in str. But ANY +ranged item that i added had no influence on my attack rating at all. Replacing my +ranged items (which give me +22 in total) with other items of similar strenght but without the skill bonus had no effect at all on my ranged attack rating. Enlighten me pls. Maybe im just blind because i went into detail for the very first time and miss some important info. For now i consider the whole arrow thing as severely bugged.

[Gareorn]

<p>Oh no.  This doesn't look promising at all.</p>

[Vaiko]

<p>Did you run your test with auto attack only or did you used CAs in between? What did you do to keep the mob at distance?</p><p>I did not systematically test the arrow influence with ranged attack so far but my hit ratio is usually higher then the numbers you show. I would be interested why they are. Which class of mob did you fight? I have seen issues hitting cretin mob classes in the past and that could be the reason why your numbers are lower than I expected.</p>

[EQ2Magroo]

Interesting numbers...it looks like base damage is about 500 then without the bonus modifiers from the arrows. I'm assuming that a mobs resists don't effect the chance to hit, but just mitigate against the damage once you have scored a hit, so even if a mob was very reistent to crushing, say, then the hit% should still be consistent even though average hit would be very low. This isn't what we're seeing here, so I'm pretty sure that mob resists aren't a factor here and that something else must explain this. Any chance we could see the results repeated with makeshift arrows too ? I must say I've noticed more "missed" and "parry" results on screen than usual recently, but I'd like to think this is just the type of mobs I'm fighting rather than any arrow screw up... <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Vaiko]

<p>Resists doesn't matter for ranged attack. I've long time not seeing immunity to a ranged attack damage type and I think it's gone from the game (immune to all physical damage still exists). The biggest impact I've seen on ranged damage over the near past is deflection, parry, avoidance - means not hitting the mob. I don't have large data sets on a single type of mob because I spend most of my time at the moment in raid zones (where other people doing various things to the mob I try to pierce). I may not have an accurate data set but I think mitigation is not a big factor (and it should't matter at all if you beat, during all the test time, the same mob).</p>

[Walford]

<cite>EQ2Magroo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I must say I've noticed more "missed" and "parry" results on screen than usual recently, but I'd like to think this is just the type of mobs I'm fighting rather than any arrow screw up... <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> I have seen the same thing, and seen it mentioned in the forums here a few times.  I am not very pleased with it.</p><p>Canul</p>

[Sham07]

Same. Since i use broadheads on raids it seems to work fine thou.... What bothers my almost more is the lack of attack enhancement due to skill bonus on items.... my offensive stance increases my attack, wardens primal increases it but the 22 ranged i got on items dont do a thing. This might be the reason why wer seeing more misses with same gear/arrows using. And: shots that proc quick shot dont seem to consume arrows. Flame me if ya want for posting this here since it safes us money that way but its just another proof that somethings not right atm. Something id like to have fixed. It seems like arrows are not taken into account properly on an attack.

[Jaack Daniels]

525 ranged skill with focus aim and the only thing to still land more than 60% of the time is bodkin arrows. As for the ammo usage I always used summoned ammo until this live update. I had to fork out 9p for 52 stacks of arrows. Now most of that is gone in a matter of a week. How this is better I'm not seeing it. I just pray bazkul drops and soon or I can't afford to even play my ranger anymore <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I had to miss out on raids this weekend to level up a woodworker which is absolutely the most boring thing I have ever had to do in this game. Nobody wants a ranger that can't hit a target. Thanks again SOE for the dagger in the back.

[Gareorn]

9p for 52 stacks? Wow. Those are the old arrow prices. I sent a guildie woodworker 20g and asked for 10 stacks of arrows. She sent me back 12 stacks and my 20g. Plus the guild bank is now full of various sorts of ranged ammo. I had to remove my makeshift from my hotbar to keep me from instinctively clicking on it. Once I burn my stockpile, I'll add it back to the hotbar. I now use crafted arrows for raids and summoned arrows for everything else. I'm really please with the changes, but I'm not getting the hit% performace I expected from the field point arrows. The bodkin arrows are actually giving me about 4% more hit% zone-wide over the field points. There is something wrong with the field points for sure.

[Rothgar]

I'm looking into this issue to see if there is indeed a problem with the accuracy bonus. I'll let you know what I find out.

[Emperors]

Thanks Rothgar.  We would all appreciate that.

[Prandtl]

<p>Thanks Rothgar.  I think other bow using classes are encountering this, too.</p>

[Walford]

<p>Thanks, Rothgar.  We are grateful, and do let us know if we can be of any help to you.</p><p> Canul</p>

[EQ2Magroo]

Great news that somebody is looking into this. Yay ! After doing some more testing I do feel this is broken rather than it just being a perception thing as I first thought. Checking my ACT logs, my attacks in the past have pretty much always read like "swings 156, hits 156". Since the patch and player made arrows with hit bonuses they now seem to be more like "swings 156, hits 148" etc. There looks like a definate drop off. Perhaps there are other factos such as group make up/debuffs etc. which I can't see, but on average I would expect those sorts of things to even themselves out. When shooting a mob in the back with arrows with +50 hit bonus, and a ranged skill of 500+ (equal to a level 100 player !!) I would expect to hit a level 70 mob 100% of the time rather than see a "miss" or "parry" (OK, some allowance for RNG, say 1 miss or so) Perhaps it's a problem with very high Ranged and Accuracy figures where the algorithm wraps around back to zero again ? Edit: Just to add that I wouldn't pay anything over 4-5g a stack for player made arrows. I'm also a WW, and make a lot of arrows for myself/guild and market. I was fortunate that I saw these arrow changes coming so bought as much adamantine/rosewood/roots as I could beforehand. The server was flooded with them at 2c, so I grabbed 64 stacks of each and stuck them in an alt's bank. This means I can pretty much make a stack of 100 arrows for around 1g40s. However I've noticed that raw prices are now much higher, with adamantine anything up to 10s each, roots 10-15s, and even the rosewood goes for 2-3s sometimes. Even so, this should give a cost to make of <2g a stack. A broker price of 3-5g seems like a nice business, so 52 stacks would cost you around 2PP or so now.

[Wrapye]

Interesting results. After the GU32 went into effect, a guildy asked me what resources were required to make arrows.  After giving him the answer, he gave me the materials to make 100 stacks of adamantine arrows, which he asked for all to be broadhead (good choice, it seems).  That would have run him about 1.38p for the sandpaper, then two stacks each of roots, adamantine and rosewood. I did make him a few stacks of some of the other arrows when we fought Chel'Drak, as the mob is immune to slashing. <cite>EQ2Magroo wrote:</cite><blockquote> When shooting a mob in the back with arrows with +50 hit bonus, and a ranged skill of 500+ (equal to a level 100 player !!) I would expect to hit a level 70 mob 100% of the time rather than see a "miss" or "parry" (OK, some allowance for RNG, say 1 miss or so) </blockquote>Just to clarify a misconception in there:  The whole "5 points of skill = level" went away in GU13.  It is not a straight line anymore, but rather a diminishing returns curve.  The softcap, above which there is no additional benefit, is 455 at level 70.  I'm betting that at that skill level you are <i>supposed to</i> have a +20% chance to hit if it is anything like the spellcasting skills (where 455 in the skill gives -20% to resist for the spell).

[EQ2Magroo]

<cite>Wrapye wrote:</cite><blockquote> Just to clarify a misconception in there:  The whole "5 points of skill = level" went away in GU13.  It is not a straight line anymore, but rather a diminishing returns curve.  The softcap, above which there is no additional benefit, is 455 at level 70.  I'm betting that at that skill level you are <i>supposed to</i> have a +20% chance to hit if it is anything like the spellcasting skills (where 455 in the skill gives -20% to resist for the spell). </blockquote> Ah thanks for the clarification, I didn't know it worked like that ! So that would leave us a +20% bonus from ranged skill, and a +50% bonus from the arrow, giving a total +70% bonus to our chance to hit. I wonder what our base "chance to hit" is ?

[dubbs]

<cite>Wrapye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Interesting results. After the GU32 went into effect, a guildy asked me what resources were required to make arrows.  After giving him the answer, he gave me the materials to make 100 stacks of adamantine arrows, which he asked for all to be broadhead (good choice, it seems).  That would have run him about 1.38p for the sandpaper, then two stacks each of roots, adamantine and rosewood. I did make him a few stacks of some of the other arrows when we fought Chel'Drak, as the mob is immune to slashing. <cite>EQ2Magroo wrote:</cite><blockquote> When shooting a mob in the back with arrows with +50 hit bonus, and a ranged skill of 500+ (equal to a level 100 player !!) I would expect to hit a level 70 mob 100% of the time rather than see a "miss" or "parry" (OK, some allowance for RNG, say 1 miss or so) </blockquote>Just to clarify a misconception in there:  The whole "5 points of skill = level" went away in GU13.  It is not a straight line anymore, but rather a diminishing returns curve.  The<span style="color: #ff3333"> softcap</span>, above which there is no additional benefit, is 455 at level 70.  I'm betting that at that skill level you are <i>supposed to</i> have a +20% chance to hit if it is anything like the spellcasting skills (where 455 in the skill gives -20% to resist for the spell). </blockquote><p>You are correct in everything except the definition of a "softcap" is the point where diminishing returns kick in and you see <i>reduced</i> benefit for adding to the skill.  In a Hardcap, you will see zero benefit from adding to the skill </p>

[Rothgar]

Just a quick update: I did find an issue with the ammo accuracy bonus on auto-attacks and it is being corrected.   Thanks to those who performed tests and let us know about the problem!

[Prandtl]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a quick update: I did find an issue with the ammo accuracy bonus on auto-attacks and it is being corrected.   Thanks to those who performed tests and let us know about the problem! </blockquote><p> Great Job Rothgar!!  WOOT</p><p>edit:  And thanks all you testing ranjahs, too!</p>

[Wrapye]

<cite>dubbs wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are correct in everything except the definition of a "softcap" is the point where diminishing returns kick in and you see <i>reduced</i> benefit for adding to the skill.  In a Hardcap, you will see zero benefit from adding to the skill </blockquote>I think EQ2's definition of 'softcap' is that the skill can go above the cap, but you don't get any benefit.  A hardcap is one where the value cannot go above a certain level (like the kill counter for mobs like undead, goblins, etc. which tops out at 10K) The 'softcap' used to be one where above a certain point you got very little, but I gather from the pre-EoF expansion dev posts that the caps on mitigation and resists were firm.  You might get your resists above the cap, but they will still only be 75%.  That allows room for mobs to debuff the characters, but not be as hit as hard as if there was a hardcap.

[Sham07]

Wow thats good news Thanks R!

[Gareorn]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a quick update: I did find an issue with the ammo accuracy bonus on auto-attacks and it is being corrected.   Thanks to those who performed tests and let us know about the problem! </blockquote> Woot!  Thank you for the quick response.  Rothgar, you rock!

[Vaiko]

thx

[Stormwolf86]

Are your fixing the hit bonus for ALL arrows? Including the tradeskilled ones from EH, and the summoned ones from the DT bows?

[Pezz]

<p>sry for the noob question but where do i get the good arrows at for T7. Does someone craft them.</p>

[TerriBlades]

Pezz@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>sry for the noob question but where do i get the good arrows at for T7. Does someone craft them.</p></blockquote> Either crafted arrows off the broker or a woodworker friend, a summoned bow from DT (Bazkul or Ichorstrand) or you get the recipe drop from EH and the rare to make them. All of these should be better then the rangers summoned arrows.

[Rothgar]

I just completed the fix for the ammo accuracy modifications and tested it locally. I spawned some raid mobs and checked my hit chance against them with and without accuracy modifiers.  With the gear I was wearing, I had about a 70% chance to hit Tarinax on auto-attack.  Using the crafted arrows with a 50% bonus almost got my hit chance to 100%.  If you've ever looked at your combat arts and noticed the hit bonus that says "25% Easier" or "40% Harder", that is an additional accuracy bonus applied to that CA hit roll.  This bonus stacks with the ammo bonus, so most of my combat arts when used with enhanced ammo were guaranteed hits. I know there has been a lot of discussion about the 148 dmg on crafted arrows vs the 128 damage on lvl 70 summoned, but you guys need to give a lot more credit to the accuracy bonus, its huge.  With this bug in place, I know you haven't had a chance to see it yet, but I have no doubts when you compare parses after this fix you'll see the difference accuracy bonus makes. Since the GU is still 2 weeks away I'm going to try to get this hot fixed, but I can't guarantee a date.  Watch the update notes for it though.

[Sham07]

Very nice Rothgar. Thanks for sharing Now pls tell me what u feed Tari with to hold still for that test... or what favors u offer. Up to now I did not know what to expect from the +%hit bonus but if its the same calculations whichs used for CAs this is gona be awesome. Get it hawtfixed! Wanna play with that!

[Drelin]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> With the gear I was wearing, I had about a 70% chance to hit Tarinax on auto-attack.  Using the crafted arrows with a 50% bonus almost got my hit chance to 100% </blockquote> Most raids using the Baz'kul summoned arrows I have a hit ratio of 70~75% on auto attack, the encounters where I've had 100% to hit (blue encounters for instance) have seen a direct DPS increase of 400 to 500 points easily. If you give us that kind of boost in one fell swoop I cant even imagine the [Removed for Content] storm that will rise from the other top tier DPS classes who we currently equal or already top. And IMO their ire would be justified. Although I personally would enjoy the change I can't see it not having repercussions and eventually being nerfed.

[Vaiko]

Drelin@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>Most raids using the Baz'kul summoned arrows I have a hit ratio of 70~75% on auto attack, the encounters where I've had 100% to hit (blue encounters for instance) have seen a direct DPS increase of 400 to 500 points easily. If you give us that kind of boost in one fell swoop I cant even imagine the [I cannot control my vocabulary] storm that will rise from the other top tier DPS classes who we currently equal or already top. And IMO their ire would be justified. Although I personally would enjoy the change I can't see it not having repercussions and eventually being nerfed.</blockquote> <div align="left">First, the damage difference between blue and yellow mob is not just the better hitting. If you increase the hit chance for yellow mob you will still not see the same damage on them as you are currently seeing on blue mob.<div align="left">Second, my hit ratio overall with the current system is already not too bad except on some special mob who avoid, defect, parry and block like crazy. These are the mob where I currently fall behind caster classes in dps. If the hit ratio is increased for this cases I'm just be able to better keep up with my caster friends. I'm not sure they would spend much attention to it.</div>If you are currently top or almost top of your raid zone wide pars and your people will look only on zone numbers then they may complain if you increase. But I'm not sure if it's not because of them, that your are at the top of parses. I've seen so many casters and other scouts dealing decent damage, I'm normally not top in zone pars.</div>

[Drelin]

<cite>Vaiko wrote:</cite><blockquote>Drelin@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote>Most raids using the Baz'kul summoned arrows I have a hit ratio of 70~75% on auto attack, the encounters where I've had 100% to hit (blue encounters for instance) have seen a direct DPS increase of 400 to 500 points easily. If you give us that kind of boost in one fell swoop I cant even imagine the [I cannot control my vocabulary] storm that will rise from the other top tier DPS classes who we currently equal or already top. And IMO their ire would be justified. Although I personally would enjoy the change I can't see it not having repercussions and eventually being nerfed.</blockquote> <div align="left">First, the damage difference between blue and yellow mob is not just the better hitting. If you increase the hit chance for yellow mob you will still not see the same damage on them as you are currently seeing on blue mob.<div align="left">Second, my hit ratio overall with the current system is already not too bad except on some special mob who avoid, defect, parry and block like crazy. These are the mob where I currently fall behind caster classes in dps. If the hit ratio is increased for this cases I'm just be able to better keep up with my caster friends. I'm not sure they would spend much attention to it.</div>If you are currently top or almost top of your raid zone wide pars and your people will look only on zone numbers then they may complain if you increase. But I'm not sure if it's not because of them, that your are at the top of parses. I've seen so many casters and other scouts dealing decent damage, I'm normally not top in zone pars.</div></blockquote> Blue encounters arent the only ones where you can get 100% to hit, I've had 100% on the cube mobs and seen that same DPS increase (I guess that would be an even con, honestly theyre such a joke I dont bother remembering). FTH last night where I averaged 80% to hit zone wide there was one encounter where I had 93% and my parse was 400 higher than any of my other parses for the night. I usually share the top zone wide with our conj, wizzie and assassin (before he left), each person taking a night depending on the zone / group buffs etc. and I'm not worried about my guildys complaining, they have better things to do than [Removed for Content] about parses, what concerns me is the knee jerk reaction from SOE if they decide we're overpowered again, memories of LU20 still haunt me lol.

[Gareorn]

Rothgar, thank you for the update.  Looking forward to the changes.

[Sham07]

Dont cry before it hurts guys. The devs have done an awesome job imo in the past weeks/months and R is the living proof that they actually listen to the community. If i see the nerfbat hovering above our heads i put enough trust into the devs atm that it hits where it should for balance issues, not where it kills a class. Sometimes we stand in the sun, sometimes we dont..... enjoy the sun as long as it lasts. Rangers are fun!

[Elephanton]

<cite>Sham07 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes we stand in the sun, sometimes we dont..... enjoy the sun as long as it lasts. Rangers are fun! </blockquote>I'd say, enjoy the stun as long as it lasts... <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Elephanton]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just completed the fix for the ammo accuracy modifications and tested it locally. I spawned some raid mobs and checked my hit chance against them with and without accuracy modifiers.  With the gear I was wearing, I had about a 70% chance to hit Tarinax on auto-attack.  Using the crafted arrows with a 50% bonus almost got my hit chance to 100%.  If you've ever looked at your combat arts and noticed the hit bonus that says "25% Easier" or "40% Harder", that is an additional accuracy bonus applied to that CA hit roll.  This bonus stacks with the ammo bonus, so most of my combat arts when used with enhanced ammo were guaranteed hits. I know there has been a lot of discussion about the 148 dmg on crafted arrows vs the 128 damage on lvl 70 summoned, but you guys need to give a lot more credit to the accuracy bonus, its huge.  With this bug in place, I know you haven't had a chance to see it yet, but I have no doubts when you compare parses after this fix you'll see the difference accuracy bonus makes. Since the GU is still 2 weeks away I'm going to try to get this hot fixed, but I can't guarantee a date.  Watch the update notes for it though. </blockquote><p> OK, now please tell me... after everything you said about accuracy... why would any ranger want to use any other arrow except the one giving +50% hit bonus?</p><p>I am just trying to understand the balance between the 3 types of arrows... basically, rangers need auto-attack and combat arts to hit as much as possiblt so that poisons proc... also, all our combat arts are of very high damage and the to-hit bonus means a lot here too.</p><p>So basically I don't see any reasons for me to use any other arrows then one with +50% hit bonus... the damage bonuses on other types of arrows just won't hold against what this type of arrows has to offer me as a ranger.</p><p>So, could you please sched some light on balance between arrows? From your post it seams like you're in love with +50% hit bonus arrows as well. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Sham07]

I totally agree there. An official statement would be nice as to what is "intendent" from the devs side. I see the add to damage from broadheads as marginal compared to what the +%hit provides.... quick shot, poison and claymore only proc off successfull attacks therefor u lose a lot more damage from a miss than just  the autoattack. Atm i see differend arrows as options u got for differend situations and tbh thats the way id like to have it..... not a "one for all" arrow. If u take the hitchance into account i cant see broadheads prefered over the others in any situation except against green cons or caster mobs. The t8 arrow offers both damage and precision but as Eleph said..... the 50% stuff seems realy tempting. If u get an almost 100% hit chance on a non debuffed mob this is the option u wanna have in almost every raid situation imo. At that point thou thats just guesses. I hope to see the fic soon so we can check it out. An official statement would be nice thou.... Stupid rangers. R offers us a finger and we want the whole hand.

[Prandtl]

<cite>Sham07 wrote:</cite><blockquote>At that point thou thats just guesses. I hope to see the fic soon so we can check it out. An official statement would be nice thou.... Stupid rangers. <b>R offers us a finger</b> and we want the whole hand. </blockquote> At least he's offering us a different finger then Moorguard did!  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Elephanton]

<p>Hahaha, good one Prandtl, good one indeed <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gareorn]

<p>This is a very interesting subject.  I'm pretty ineterested in how this is going to work out once the hit% issue is fixed, and believe me, I ill do some testing to find out what works best for me.  Each of us have spected out our Rangers a  little different.  We all have different range modifiers, str/int ratios, etc. so each of us are going to have to figure out what arrows work best in different situations.  In otherwords, I don't expect the arrows to have the same effectiveness across the board for all Rangers.</p><p>I can already say with some confidence that the field point arrows are not going to be the most desirable against green-white heroic mobs for me because I'm already hitting those for ~90%.  The bodkins may be the best fit for those mobs.  Against orange epics, my unmodified hit % is below 70%.  This would be a great time to use field points.  These examples are specific to me only.  I'm geared from the ground up to maximize my DPS from ranged attacks.  I have horrible mitigation and I usually go down pretty fast if I draw aggro in a raid.  I imagine most Rangers have a better sense of survivability than I do.</p><p>Instead of getting statements about mechanic intentions, I'd rather we do testing and report that back to the devs with recommendations.  We all know too well about how "official statements" on intended mechanics can get blown out of proportion.  Remember all the fallout about labeling DPS tiers?  Heck, I still see people complaining that their T1 DPS character can't keep up with T2 and T3 DPSers.</p><p>Besides, if one arrow type is the arrow of choice for 90% of us 90% of the time, I'm fine with that.  Are we not supposed to use the best items possible to maximize our effectiveness?  In the past, I very rarely purchased anything but the piercing arrows.  I kept a small supply of slashing and crushing arrows on me for the few mobs that are resistant to piercing, but I find it easier to manage my arrow supply if I can predominantly stick with one type of arrow anyway.</p><p>Edit:  That was too funny Prandtl<img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[EQ2Magroo]

I guess the problem of admitting something is wrong is that people now expect it to be fixed <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I've just checked latest patch notes and despite there being a lot of stuff in there, I couldn't see a mention of this fix yet. <cue Simpson's voices> Is it ready yet ? Is it ready yet ? Is it ready yet ? ..... EDIT: Wow, that was quick...just read today's update notes and it's in !

[Lesca]

<p>Nice to know it wasn't just me... I've been using Ichorstrand ammo on my Sarnak and as an example fight, I shot 91 arrows and missed 25. That's just straight misses, not including parries, deflections etc. This was with skill buffed to 450 or so on mobs in FTH and MMIS. </p><p>Combat Arts seem to hit OK, no doubt due to the modifiers that Rothgar mentioned. But it's so disheartening to watch the combat window and see "You try to pierce so-and-so but miss" every time I auto attack. I just know my DPS would be that little bit higher if I was hitting those!</p><p>Eagerly awaiting that fix. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[TemerNeziel]

<p>Agree with Lesca here (nothing to do with her being an officer or anything in our guild! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). In fact us and the other ranger in our guild all agree that if we were actually hitting the mob our DPS would be that much higher. Can't wait to hear the good news about ths change going in <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Anxi]

<p>Good news, hotfix notes from today:</p><p>Hotfix<i> March / 19 / 2007</i> </p><p>*** Ammo ***</p><p>Accuracy modifications on ammo will now be applied correctly to auto-attack.</p>

[Drelin]

I reeeally want to try out these changes but our brig is on vacation for the next couple of months so I'm stuck playing a brig till he gets back, WTB brig!! If those changes work as Rothgar has said there are going to be a lot of very happy rangers on these boards again.

[Lesca]

<p>Patch landed on Splitpaw yesterday, and I can conclusively say that it works. Last nights' Freethinkers raid felt so much better, and my hit rate was up to 93% with T8 ammo. I barely saw a miss, except on Malkonis and Treyloth, and my overall DPS was a good 300 - 400 higher than it has been before. I'm stunned. But happy. What a difference that makes...</p><p>Thanks indeed to Rothgar for getting this hotfix in.</p>

[Sham07]

Only orange cons i fought now were cheldrak and malkonis but it was insane. Hardly any misses even on those. Its a lot more fun with these arrows than getting "miss" almost every 2nd shot. Thanks for the fix. Its awesome!

[Anxi]

Which arrows were you using? Does anyone have an opinion on what the best playermade arrow to use now is? (I have yet to get T8 ammo, sigh such is life).

[Sham07]

Field points. And i think ill stick to those in raids since i cant realy remember a single miss since i use em after fix. Havent realy tested bodkins yet but field points definitely > broadheads. I dont have t8 ammo but after this weeks raids so far i dontthink they can make much of a difference anymore.

[Runewind]

I've been testing out field points and bodkins on my parser and it seems that bodkins are still consistantly more accurate than field points. I don't know if I'm the only one noticing this or not.

[Gareorn]

My parses show that, since the fix went in, field points have a much higher hit% than bodkins against mobs level 72 and up.  This is exactly what I expect to see.  Against blue and green mobs, I'm hitting in the high 90's eitherway.  Again, I expect to have a high hit rate with low level mobs no matter what ammo I'm using.

[Runewind]

Okay, it might just be my experience then. I was hitting about 95% with bodkins and 80-85% with Field Points both against level 70-72 mobs. Might have just been a fluke.