Pricing and profit margins, general question to the crafting community [Archive]

View Full Version : Pricing and profit margins, general question to the crafting community

Chirpaa

03-08-2007, 05:05 AM

Prices that others charge, when it comes to crafted items, have confused and baffled me since the day I started EQ2.I'm aware that alot of it is just because a huge chunk of what you see on the broker was thrown up by people who don't think, even a tiny bit, and just throw a price on an item and walk away. But, I also know there are established crafters with thoughtful pricing schemes. And I'm curious what various people's thoughts are on it.I bring this up, because I find myself undercutting people alot on some things. I mean people where I see the same items regularly being sold by them, so I know they aren't random wacko's just throwing prices out there to see what sticks.I also find myself not selling certain other things, because they are consistenly thrown to the broker at fuel cost (most likely by people who were just grinding the levels and want to break even).In this last case...I don't understand why people bother with the broker, if you want to break even just sell it to an NPC and be done with it. Cash in hand immediately. But, good samaritans may be trying to help other players in the process of breaking even. Anyway, I digress, what about where profit IS involved? How do you come up with fair prices, or unfair prices that sell anyway, as the case may be?Arrows, something I've been making decent money on, are a good example of this. The only person regularly stocking Feyiron arrows in large quantities other than me over the last week, is pricing them at 5 silver. This is a markup, over fuel cost, of something along the lines of 6000 to 7000%. To me, that's pretty excessive! So I'm selling quite a bit cheaper. Boxes and bags are another one where I see certain, clearly established crafters with markups in the range of several thousand percent over fuel cost.Adept III's as well, although I can understand to a degree, due to the price of the rare involved anyway. It's just odd that I see an established sage regularly charging 1 to 1.5 plat for T4 adept III's, for example, when the masters of the very same spells are going for the 30 to 50 gold range.I've rambled enough and am interested to hear the varous rationales and thoughts behind the pricing schemes of other crafters though, please!

Myedved

03-08-2007, 07:57 AM

When faced with no competition on any item, lets say Horned leather backpacks, I figure my opportunity cost for the ingredients, add in the fuel cost and pad it with a gold or two. Opportunity cost is different for everyone, so you may see a large variation in what people want out of their items. When my tailor was 69, my main was not yet able to gather T7 well. So I HAD to figure in the cost of the horned leather pelts into the price. At the time those were selling for anywhere between 30-60s each. Now that I am gathering T7 leather myself, I can sell the bags cheaper, but I still keep an eye on what the pelts are selling for. No reason to sell a completed bag for less than the individual components would sell for on their own. Regarding the 6000% markup on arrows, before one make made 100, one make made 25. That was a lot of TIME to create huge stacks of arrows. I think the high prices reflected the value of the crafters time pounding the buttons for a long period of time. If I was going to spend hours making arrows, I'm not doing it for coppers. I myself charged quite a large markup selling arrows because it took so much time. I eventually could not keep up with demand even with the high markup because my crafting time was making more profit elsewhere. I think the new crafting dynamic of 100 arrows per make will drop the price over time. As far as the 1.5 plat for a T4 AD3. Meh. In purely economic terms, I could suppose that a persons empty broker space is wasted space and an idle asset (like money in a checking account earning 0.5%) . If you've got a lot of empty space, sticking up something that overpriced and letting it ride is trying to squeeze extra value from idle assets, as long as the crafter isn't in a hurry for the money.

Oakleafe

03-08-2007, 09:11 AM

For my provisioner, if I ever bother to sell, I aim for around 100% profit - "around" because I generally round up the coppers, so it would be a little bit higher. This works fine for me on my prov, as I get quick sales and don't have too much to worry about in outside costs (i.e. I do all my own gathering and there are, unfortunately, no advanced recipes). On my other characters I am more inclined to charge anywhere between 200% and 400% profit for non-Mastercrafted. Obviously the market will dictate if I need to sell lower, but too much lower and I would just sell to the vendor or not make the items in the first place. The higher profit margin is purely to cover the cost of advanced recipes books. For mastercrafted I tend to take a view of the tier, the market and sell for whatever I feel is sensible. It has fluctuated (based on my adventuring needs or if I had to buy a rare) but for mastercrafted items I have tended to charge around 7g for tier 2, 14g for tier 3, 21g for tier 4 etc. I am aware that my method of pricing generally means that I am charging less than most others, but it suits my play style and stuff sells. I don't care if I am undercutting other peoples prices or if I am charging more than them. You just got to do what you feel is right for you. And having said all of that I am charging crazy prices for teir 1 mastercrafted, and all my huge (yeah, right!) profits are plowed straight back into the market buying over prices spell upgrades and the like. Tinkering and transmuting have, in my opinion, spoilt the game yet further by pricing out new players.

Rast

03-08-2007, 10:53 AM

For my armorer (the only one I active craft to sell from) I aim for a 25-30g profit on t7 rare combines (ie, I sell for about 1p on the broker). That allows me to buy Xegonite upto about 65g, 7g in fuel (for non impues), .5g for pelts (they still sell for a significant amount on my server). I can get this (if I'm patient) on vanguard, for chain, I tend to have to cut it to about 15-20g for it to sell.And note, none of those are 'fast' sell items. I might sell 1 piece in a week, I might sell 10. Depends on my luck <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Rijacki

03-08-2007, 12:11 PM

<cite>Myedved wrote:</cite><blockquote>When faced with no competition on any item, lets say Horned leather backpacks, I figure my opportunity cost for the ingredients, add in the fuel cost and pad it with a gold or two. Opportunity cost is different for everyone, so you may see a large variation in what people want out of their items. When my tailor was 69, my main was not yet able to gather T7 well. So I HAD to figure in the cost of the horned leather pelts into the price. At the time those were selling for anywhere between 30-60s each. Now that I am gathering T7 leather myself, I can sell the bags cheaper, but I still keep an eye on what the pelts are selling for. No reason to sell a completed bag for less than the individual components would sell for on their own.</blockquote> The only way I'm different is that I figure in opportunity costs as the cost to replace the component I am using. For rares, it's the part of the costs are obtaining a replacement for the rare which means the second or third lowest on the broker (the price I would pay, including broker fee if they're not in a room). I generally settle on what I think is fair for a tier, though, so I can be lazy and price all my goods of the same tier and quality (i.e. common or rare) the same. My commons are a lot more constant in price than my rares. But... when I restock, I look at what's on the broker and don't make items where there is a plethora at or below my own price point. If someone wants to price lower than me, that's his/her choice, I'll let 'em <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Terron

03-08-2007, 12:51 PM

I sell some things at large markups and others at tiny ones. If someone else is selling something I want to sell I match the lowest price, even if it seem excessive to me. If people are willing to buy at that price then I am happy to take their money <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If none else is selling it I make a guess based on how much I would pay, erring on the high side to take account that there might be rich players who wish to twink an alt almost regardless of cost. If after a while things do not sell I lower the price. I will keep on doing this until they do sell. E.g. I regularly sell wolf totems at 1.5g, though they only cost a few silver in fuel. Other totems I sell for much less, because there is less demand for them. I matched the lowest prices for T5 arrows - 5s - when I first put dome up for sale. I have lowered them as they did not sell at that price.

dartie

03-08-2007, 02:58 PM

No answer, but I'm glad you asked the question. Great thread!

DngrMou

03-08-2007, 03:40 PM

<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote>Prices that others charge, when it comes to crafted items, have confused and baffled me since the day I started EQ2.I'm aware that alot of it is just because a huge chunk of what you see on the broker was thrown up by people who don't think, even a tiny bit, and just throw a price on an item and walk away. But, I also know there are established crafters with thoughtful pricing schemes. And I'm curious what various people's thoughts are on it.I use a rather simple strategy....I price my items to sell. If I make something, (and I only do so after checking the broker), I'll list it for slightly less than the lowest identical listed item, (during the week). On Fridays...lasting through Sunday, I'll price items a little higher...middle of the road, becasue there will be more players on during the weekend, and more demand.I bring this up, because I find myself undercutting people alot on some things. I mean people where I see the same items regularly being sold by them, so I know they aren't random wacko's just throwing prices out there to see what sticks.I also find myself not selling certain other things, because they are consistenly thrown to the broker at fuel cost (most likely by people who were just grinding the levels and want to break even).I love those people! I can max my deity faction out in no time by purchasing stacks of that 'junk' and sacrificing it all. Eventually this secret is gonna get out, and those prices will climb. But for now....wow!In this last case...I don't understand why people bother with the broker, if you want to break even just sell it to an NPC and be done with it. Cash in hand immediately. But, good samaritans may be trying to help other players in the process of breaking even. Anyway, I digress, what about where profit IS involved? How do you come up with fair prices, or unfair prices that sell anyway, as the case may be?Some of that...heck, all of that...depends. Where do I get my raws? Myself, or purchased? Can I turn a profit by purchasing the raws? Are the rares easy to come by? Can I trade rares for rares with other crafters? What current prices am I seeing on the broker for a given item? (sometimes the finished products sell for less than the rare used to make them).Arrows, something I've been making decent money on, are a good example of this. The only person regularly stocking Feyiron arrows in large quantities other than me over the last week, is pricing them at 5 silver. This is a markup, over fuel cost, of something along the lines of 6000 to 7000%. To me, that's pretty excessive! So I'm selling quite a bit cheaper. There's nothing wrong with that. You make a profit you're comfortable with....and would be competition will either adjust their prices to yours, or give up.Boxes and bags are another one where I see certain, clearly established crafters with markups in the range of several thousand percent over fuel cost.Adept III's as well, although I can understand to a degree, due to the price of the rare involved anyway. It's just odd that I see an established sage regularly charging 1 to 1.5 plat for T4 adept III's, for example, when the masters of the very same spells are going for the 30 to 50 gold range.All the traffic will bear, I think. And this person could be listing his Adept's while no masters are on the broker. Either way, a savvy buyer is going to search for the spell, and select the cheapest, be that master, or adept III. (I've even seen adept I's priced higher than master's).I've rambled enough and am interested to hear the varous rationales and thoughts behind the pricing schemes of other crafters though, please!</blockquote>

Calthine

03-08-2007, 05:14 PM

I don't figure in opportunity costs of common harvestables. (That makes me unpopular with some folks.) I do consider current low market value of rares and other spendy components. Then I look at fuel costs and the current market value of the item (or similar items). I tend to market my stuff at "What I would consider reasonable" rather than "What the market will bear" (ie: I'm an undercutter, though not an obsessed one). I should mention that before I load up my broker boxes I take a look at the market. It does me no good to make a half-dozen Ebony Long Bows or 33 Beholder totems if there's already 20 on the market. I'll hold the materials until there's a bit more scarcity. Market research can also tell you what's not selling: 20 Imbued Wands of Uberness at a very low price means there's probably no market for those atm. I'll also only go so low. I don't mind breaking even, but I won't take a loss. If price wars gear up, I'll often remove the item from the market and wait it out. I'll often check out Tiers I don't usually work in for things I know sell well and if prices are high, I'll throw some up. For example, 5g for Wolf Totems seems just ridiculous to me. Yeah, they're popular, but they cost like 25s each to make. I can under cut, drive the price down a little, and make a nice profit.

Karlen

03-08-2007, 05:47 PM

I've been woodworking since about Christmas and am now 58. I craft in my basement and immediately drop anything I make onto the market board. I don't think I have ever sold any crafted items to an npc and have done maybe 2 tradeskill writs. I generally make 1 of everything as I get new recipes and then grind out arrows, throwing axes/daggers or totems to complete the level. If people buy rare weapons, then I will usually make a replacement. Currently making T6 products, I have been pricing arrows at 4s. This is around or below what other people are selling and I do sell a few stacks each night. Chameleon totems I sell for around 90-95s. Everyone seems to price them at 1g so this puts me outside of the pack. Wolf totems I sell for around 80s, which I think is reasonable. If I am standing around my crafting station for an extended period, I sometimes drop the prices on totems so that they will sell quickly and I can make new ones to refill my jewelry box. I have probably made the most money on rare weapons. I've generally sold T5 (cedar?) stuff for 65-70g and T6 (ironwood) for 80g. I imbue everything that can be imbued just because I can. Unfortunately the price on ironwood lately has been quite high and I can't afford to buy it and sell items for 80g. I haven't really done any harvesting since Tier 4. I just buy whatever I need on the broker (or by visiting in person to sellers who live in SQ). Generally when pricing, I try to determine what level of return I need for me to bother making the item. About 1g per day per slot is a good target -- if something will take 10 days to sell, then I want to see a 10g profit on it. I bought a 5-slot house when I started woodworking, so I have lots of vendor slots. I am therefore prepared to wait to sell things and don't need to slash prices to move inventory (except occasionally when I get really poor and need some cash flow). I would suspect that my total return from crafting is in the order of 30-35p.

DataOutlaw

03-08-2007, 06:12 PM

EQ2 (and most other MMORPGs for that matter) represent a true "free market" economy where the *only* factor that sets prices is supply and demand. You should always keep that in mind when making pricing decisions for either crafted gear or looted items. You have tyo decide for yourself what to set your prices at based on what is important to you. I will tell you my rule of thumb for pricing. Every time I put anything up for sale on the broker I do a search for that item to see what it is selling for and based on what I see is how I choose to price it as so:<ul><li>If no one else is selling it then I look for other similar items and price mine a little bit higher than anything else similar available on the broker</li><li>If people are selling it for a good or decent price then I put it up undercutting the lowest price by around 10% or so; less price (more undercutting) if I have multiples of the item</li><li>If I see the item for sale for a crappy price (at or near fuel cost or vendor price) then I sell it to a vendor rather then waste the broker space.</li></ul>

Barbai

03-08-2007, 06:40 PM

When ever I do my pricing I generally will try to keep it what I call reasonable and try not to include price of raws since I try to harvest my own. I have found as far as armorer goes 2x , cost to make seems to be a good area for me for any on non-rare pieces. I generally only make about a gold or two in profit per non rare piece. Commisions though I will vary according to the kind of person I am working with and how well they are willing to work with me so can range between 1.5x to 2.5 depending on circumstances. (Even though I have yet to find a person doing a rare piece commison that hasn't tipped me more then the quoted price so maybe I am shorting myself <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) The only pieces I have had trouble with getting rid of on broker is the imbued non rare piece the extra fuel cost of impueing at the higher tiers can multiply the cost quickly making it a hard sell on a non rare crafted piece

Chirpaa

03-08-2007, 10:12 PM

Thank you to everyone so far for so many wonderful answers!Seems that other crafters think about pricing pretty much around the same as I do, and the oddest costs I've seen are likely just folks not interested in thinking at all.I'm just grateful so many people do what I do and use thoughtful price schemes, even if that means undercuts of someone selling at the same time. I was actually feeling a little guilty about this...even when i was convinced that their prices couldn't possibly be moving at all. No guilt anymore, thanks!<3 the EQ2 crafting community, btw, nicest folks in the game. ^.^

colonel75thr

03-08-2007, 10:20 PM

I have just gotten back into crafting and was amazed at some of the pricing.. I am only T4 sage right now, but to see T3 Ad3 spells going for 1.5p is unreal. I checked the cost of rares, about 30gp and with the other ingredients and fuel it cost me 31gp to make the spell. So, I put it on the market for 63gp and guess what, an instant sale! I think doubling your money is a great profit. Why be greedy about it? Besides, we all know the only T3 folks who can afford 1+pp is an alt. For those people without high level help they are getting pushed aside. I for one will continue to make things that people can afford, and I wish others would as well

Wikfizb

03-08-2007, 10:29 PM

<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote>Prices that others charge, when it comes to crafted items, have confused and baffled me since the day I started EQ2.I'm aware that alot of it is just because a huge chunk of what you see on the broker was thrown up by people who don't think, even a tiny bit, and just throw a price on an item and walk away. But, I also know there are established crafters with thoughtful pricing schemes. And I'm curious what various people's thoughts are on it....</blockquote>I start with asking myself what I would pay if I were a buyer and not able to make it for myself (in most cases, I start my baseline at cost of rare used * 1.5 and work my way down from there). I then check the competition and see if I need to re-evaluate my pricing. As for how low I will go, I generaly use the rule of thumb that if I can not make a profit of 100% of the fuel cost (ie if it costs me 3.75g in fuel and 75g for the rare, I need to sell it for 82.5g (75g + 3.75*2g) or more to meet my criteria), it isnt worth stocking (in such cases, the materials used would generaly sell for more profit than the end item (assuming roots or hard metal of any kind are used)). Before EoF, I would sell T3 to T6 goods, but since then the cost of T3 and T4 (and often T5) rares have gone up so much that I no longer bother with those anymore and now focus nearly exclusivly on T6 items. I try to keep a good selection of jewelry and adepts for the classes I play ((conj, nec, warden) where I am familiar enough with the spells to know which are worth having past adept 1(If I wouldnt want an ad3 or master of it for myself, I wont bother making an ad3 to sell)) as well as a few of the more popular ancient teaching splls for toher classes. I used to also stock leather and cloth, but seldom bother with those anymore. I keep most of my T6 prices between 100g to 125g per item (occasionaly I sell stuff as low as 80 if I get a great deal on bulk rares) and try to avoid paying more than 90g for a T6 rare and I usualy sell between 0 to 6 items per day.As for lower tier AD3s, the prices of masters for those is a factor in my decision not to deal with them, but the biggest reason for me is that if say I paid 40g for a palladium and even if I sold it at 45g, thats just not a price I would pay for a pre-made adept 3 of that level (I'd go harvest my own before paying that much). The same goes for T4. T5 is an odd tier, sometimes you cna get great deals on rhodium, but most of the time, its overpriced, and I simply dont like to sell something unless I can reliably keep it in stock and profitable at a fairly consistant price point.Bags and boxes. Since most bags and boxes are made from common materials, the crafter/seller realy needs to ask "what is my time worth", and for many a large markup is needed to make it worth their time to amek and stock them. I only stock bags/boxes when my tailor or carpenter is using them to level from, and anytime I'm selling somethgin I used for leveling purposes, anythign above cost of goods sold is an acceptable profit to me.Wikfizbik - 64 Jeweler + several other T5/T6 crafter alts[edited to trim quote size] [another edit for math flaw]

Devilsbane

03-09-2007, 02:10 AM

This strategy works for crafted and non crafted items. First gage whether an item is profitable (1g net profit per slot is my standard for items worth 5g or less and are treasured or below). Second find out the current supply of the item on the market (check every item on broker before pricing it). Third given the information from the first two make the choice to hold, price/sell to players, or salvage/sell to vendor. Now the following are a few loose rules I consider during this process.<ul><li>Your min profitable price should never be your first price, Undercutters and Resellers will keep you poor.</li><li>Everything above Handcrafted can be used in transmuting</li><li>At this time most low level characters are probably alts </li><li>Keep in mind the broker fee ( a price of 83s 33c becomes 1g even on the broker)</li><li>A larger search of similar or higher quality items can help you price to achieve a sell (Adept III selling higher then the Master equals no sale)</li><li>(I will add more later, most of my loose rules are instinctive now)</li></ul>

Paceyourself

03-09-2007, 12:19 PM

For me it's market prices... If I can sell to an NPC for the same or better than the current market price, I'll sell to the NPC. If I have items that have been in the broker for awhile and I need the space, I chuckle to myself and have an "inventory reduction" sale at 50% lower than my lowest priced competitor (if it's still higher than the NPC price). That way someone gets a good deal and I free up needed space. If my competitors want to buy my inventory, so be it.I've seen others do the same thing. If you look at current pricing on certain items, you may see one priced ridiculously low. If I have the space, my strategy is to purchase that item myself and simply relist it with my own and try to double my money. In fact, in one instance I purchased a "Black Edible Mushroom" for 50 gold and turned around and sold it for 3 plat... Not a bad margin!The same laws of supply and demand as well as Caveat Emptor and Caveat Venditor apply in this market as well. Edit - The above scenario concerns a non-crafted item and was just used as an example. I use the same strategies for my crafted items.

TheWatcherUatu

03-11-2007, 02:54 PM

I've been wondering about this a lot, as well. Most of the prices on the vendor seem to be almost random to me and I can't pick up the pattern, so I've been pricing by what I would pay for the item if I needed it. I don't think that this avails me too well, however, since my finances are, I believe, probably extremely small for my level. I've got about 20 gold, I think, to spend on level 13 craftsman. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Possibly less. You can't buy anything for that. heh.I wish I had a chart of how much money other players had so that I could charge accordingly....I mean, I never buy anything, so it almost doesn't matter to me how much money I've got, but I don't want to be undervaluing my stock either.

Calthine

03-11-2007, 03:04 PM

You're probably undervaluing your stock, yeah. Pick some point between what the NPC will give you (which is fuel costs) and "what the market will bear". If the stuff flies off the shelf, you can nudge up your prices a bit. If it sits there, you may need to nudge them down. I'll also prices at what I feel I would pay, and often find that I'm, well, cheap, lol. Also remember that your pricing may have nothing to so with it. You might be marketing the less desirable goods, or no one could be looking for the stuff you're market for a bit. The market tends to be streaky.

TheWatcherUatu

03-11-2007, 04:45 PM

The weirdest thing is how some of the items have these messages on them that say, "You may be able to receive more from a vendor for this item," and the vendor only offers 20 copper, while I know I can sell it for 10 silver or something. I'd love to know how the game determines what it considers to be valuable NPC loot.

Calthine

03-11-2007, 06:47 PM

<cite>TheWatcherUatu wrote:</cite><blockquote>The weirdest thing is how some of the items have these messages on them that say, "You may be able to receive more from a vendor for this item," and the vendor only offers 20 copper, while I know I can sell it for 10 silver or something. I'd love to know how the game determines what it considers to be valuable NPC loot.</blockquote> With crafted items, the broker will show fuel cost + 20% markup. For drops, remember that some items drop in multiple tiers and have different prices depending on where they dropped. Like Canine Saliva and Giant Beards.

JenarieII

03-12-2007, 07:57 AM

Interesting thread! I've been watching broker prices since I started playing a month ago and I'm amazed how the same item can change in price over time even when "time" is only a matter of days. I tried really really hard to figure out the pricing others were using. I wanted to sell my items at a fair price without undercutting competition and possibly ruining the market for others because I didn't know what I was doing. But I really don't think you CAN find a set price on stuff. I've thought about it a lot and finally just decided I'm going to pick a price by tier and stick to it. I'll just vendor whatever is leftover. If nothing is selling then obviously my price is too high and I'll lower it. If stuff flies off the shelf then I might raise it a little. But I'm done worrying if I'm undercutting or messing up the market. If I sell for what I consider a fair price then my conscience is clear.

dartie

03-12-2007, 03:29 PM

<cite>JenarieII wrote:</cite><blockquote>Interesting thread! I've been watching broker prices since I started playing a month ago and I'm amazed how the same item can change in price over time even when "time" is only a matter of days. I tried really really hard to figure out the pricing others were using. I wanted to sell my items at a fair price without undercutting competition and possibly ruining the market for others because I didn't know what I was doing. But I really don't think you CAN find a set price on stuff. I've thought about it a lot and finally just decided I'm going to pick a price by tier and stick to it. I'll just vendor whatever is leftover. If nothing is selling then obviously my price is too high and I'll lower it. If stuff flies off the shelf then I might raise it a little. But I'm done worrying if I'm undercutting or messing up the market. If I sell for what I consider a fair price then my conscience is clear.</blockquote> I think this answer contains a clue to the OP's question about the sage who wants more for an AD3 than the broker wants for a Master1 of the same spell. If the sage sells a bunch of tier 6 AD3s for 1.5 plat, then he probably just concludes that 1.5 plat is right for tier 6 AD3s. He then prices all T6 AD3 spells at 1.5 plat without even checking whether there are masters available on the broker for less. I suspect this is a common oversight when it comes to checking prices because most folks probably use the search button on things that are already in their sales displays. Since the item in the sage's spell display ends with the "(Adept III)" designation, he doesn't even turn up the masters on a search unless he deletes the "(Adept III)" and searches again. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that most people don't bother to do this. I don't. It's easier to just fill up those ebony scroll stands and see what sells and what doesn't. Does this make the sages in question lazy? Lazy might be a reasonable word to use for them in a real economy, but this is only a virtual economy, so I think it's probably more accurate to characterize them as "hastily trying to get back to adventuring."

Chirpaa

03-13-2007, 06:49 AM

dartie wrote: <blockquote>I think this answer contains a clue to the OP's question about the sage who wants more for an AD3 than the broker wants for a Master1 of the same spell. If the sage sells a bunch of tier 6 AD3s for 1.5 plat, then he probably just concludes that 1.5 plat is right for tier 6 AD3s. He then prices all T6 AD3 spells at 1.5 plat without even checking whether there are masters available on the broker for less. I suspect this is a common oversight when it comes to checking prices because most folks probably use the search button on things that are already in their sales displays. Since the item in the sage's spell display ends with the "(Adept III)" designation, he doesn't even turn up the masters on a search unless he deletes the "(Adept III)" and searches again. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that most people don't bother to do this. I don't. It's easier to just fill up those ebony scroll stands and see what sells and what doesn't. Does this make the sages in question lazy? Lazy might be a reasonable word to use for them in a real economy, but this is only a virtual economy, so I think it's probably more accurate to characterize them as "hastily trying to get back to adventuring."</blockquote> Very interesting observation, and probably quite accurate! Being a big fan of various economic sim games (Capitalism, the various Tycoon games, etc.) I probably put a bit more time into analyzing the markets and comparing similiar (but not the same) items, etc. than people that don't really have fun doing that sort of thing and just want to get out and kill stuff.Interesting thing with those Adept III's vs. Masters. I have a master spell (from T4) that I've had for sale for 3 weeks now. I've lowered the price quite a few times now, as I absolutely do not like having anything take that long to sell. Inventory "turnover" is important to me, as I consider it a measure of profitability as much as is actual profit margin. Anyway, there is a sage that has had an Adept III of the same spell for sale the entire time I've had my master listed, and his price hasn't budged. He's at 1.5 plat. My master is now down to 30 gold.... Part of the issue, by the way, has been alot of competion on the master spell, there's always 3 or 4 listed, and they aren't moving all that quickly (it's not a very key spell).

Afterdark

03-13-2007, 11:26 AM

TheresaN wrote: <blockquote>But, I also know there are established crafters with thoughtful pricing schemes. And I'm curious what various people's thoughts are on it.</blockquote>Hello, I would consider myself an established crafter as a 70 transmuter, 70 weaponsmith, 70 carpenter, 70 alchemist. I have sold a little over 10,000 plat since day one eq2 was launched. Most of it was crafter rare weapons across all tiers.I take a whole shot approach to selling. I line up 3 80-slot ebony weapon racks, 1 ebony furniture stand, 1 ebony Jewelry box for adornments and 1 generic catch all ebony 60-slot sales crate. I have availabe to me 450 broker selling slots at 4 Bayle court. I also have a game - long friend who in his place I put in a couple more ebony weapon racks for tier 1,2 and 3 weapons and a couple generic ebony sales crates. This gives me just over 900 selling spaces on the broker.Here is how I make a profit. I made one of every rare pristine imbued crafted weapon across all tiers plus an extra of most all duel wields and the more popular non-duel wield weapons (300+ rare weapons) I made one of ever tier 6 and tier 7 rare house status items (up to 80 items). I filled Ebony one Jewelry box with all tier 7 and tier 6 adornments I could make. I fill my generic sales crates with odds and ends, mostly muted stuff, frags, powders, infusions, manas, a few carpenter made ebony strong boxes, crates and sales displays.Simply put I do not have the best price on most of the items I sell, there is just no way to have the best price when you are selling over 900 mostly rare items. As it is when I sell say 25 or 30 rare items in one day it takes 2 or 3 hours to make all of them by switching around to different toons then re-stocking the transmutables, fuel, harvests and the like. I buy rare harvests when I see a good price. I keep an extra stack of 50 of each rare ore cluster for each tier + 100 or so rare pelts for fistwraps across the tiers on my weaponsmith, thats 450+ rares in back stock just on my weaponsmith. My carpenter has over 100 rares in back stock on him.However! - Having one of everything rare I can make in my fields, transmuting, weapons, carp, alchy listed on the broker gives me a huge advantage, I know what sells and I know what sells for a profit. I simply replace whats sold each day. I take the selling price minus the cost of the rare, fuel harvests and there is my profit.Just remember to log in at least once every 24 hours to re-set the sales timer. 24 hours after you log off you items are no longer for sale on the broker so you need to log in once a day to re-set this.My advice, buy a few rares and make a few popular mastercrafted items, go harvest a few more rares while you waiting for those to sell over the next few days. Take everything ya got and continue to build up your selling stock, price it all for a good margin, my general rule is take the cost the rare is currently on the broker and double it for your final mastercrafted sale price. Thats right buy a cobalt cluster for 50g sell a master crafted weapons at 99 gold. DO NOT WORRY about undercutters, they will take them self out getting tired of not making a profit. If you keep at this a few weeks you will hit critical mass at about 150 rare crafted items on the broker, most will not sell and only a few will sell daily but all that does sell will be at a very good profit. Goto 300+ items you will sell 5 to 10p a day at a good profit, at this point we are talking 3-5 plat a day profit, up to 150p a month... Get to where I am at, 900+ items, along with everything else deal in the high end adornment racket (80+ high end t7, t6 adornments listed) like I do and I can rip through 10 to 20 plat a day profit easy. Weekends have been producing 50 to 80 plat sales days and this is all from player crafted!Do you see it? Its right there, there is NO WAY to make 30, 40 or 50 crafted items every day. Instead you make hundreds of them and mark them all up for a good profit. When they sell they sell WELL!!! This is the HUGE advantage you have over undercutters!!! If undercutters had hundreds of the best priced items on the broker they would NEVER be able to make as many to keep up! The things that sell TAKE CARE OF THEM SELF! If a item sells well even a undercutter can not keep up! You just RE-STOCK with your high profit price!!!When you get to where I am at, I am making as many crafted items as I can each day givin the play time I have and EVERY one of them I make now is all sold at a good profit!Cuff of Everfrost.<img src="http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/relicsaint/cuff001.gif" border="0">

Paceyourself

03-13-2007, 11:56 AM

<cite>Afterdark wrote:</cite><blockquote>My advice... SNIP... Get to where I am at, 900+ items, along with everything else deal in the high end adornment racket (80+ high end t7, t6 adornments listed) like I do and I can rip through 10 to 20 plat a day profit easy. Weekends have been producing 50 to 80 plat sales days and this is all from player crafted!</blockquote> I'm impressed! This was a well thought out and well written response! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm sure if you're this savvy in real life, you're a very successful individual... Gratz! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Afterdark

03-13-2007, 12:09 PM

Its massive online insanity taken to its highest form!I like crafting, I dont think the game developers like me. Who ever said they don't take care of high end crafters like they take care of the high end raiders is 100% right! I am having fun. It has taken a long long time to get to where I am at in the crafting department. I just thought people might like to know what it was like if you went balls out crafting from day one. The trick is to play a little every day... re-set that 24 hour sales timer and your off to the races.Cuff of Everfrost.

hoppopo

03-13-2007, 12:10 PM

When I market heavily (which I have not in weeks between rl and raids) I undercut plain and simple. I am not there to have my stuff and player 2 and player 3 all priced the same so we all have a chance to sell. When I am selling I am there to move volume. I buy rares in bulk whnever possible and have a buy price that I will buy out the market at (for isntance currently have over 300 rough lumbered ebonies in bank). That allows me to make a significant profit on the items I list by undercutting and if I get cut back I am able to continue to cut steeply and typically player b will move there price back up or pull it off. I do not sell items that have little realized results. If I could get 500% profit on an item but it sells for 4 gold that is not worth the itme commitment to me to make the item. I have 9 crafters as well as a tranmsuter and tinkerker. Most are level 70 other couple are somewhere in t7. I am not the richest but ok. I have mastered out 3 toons, geared out 3 toons to the point only raid items are upgrades, my 3 level 40s are all masterered out with masters waiting on them till 60 etc. Across all my toons have a bit over 700 plat in the bank. My point is Wallmart didn't get where they are by matching Kmart's prices. Thatis my pricing strategy and serves me well.

Afterdark

03-13-2007, 12:17 PM

hoppopo I love ya man! lol just kidding!Here is my claim to fame.Cuff - Richest player Everfrost 2005Cuff - Richest Player Everfrost 2006Cuff - Richest Player everfrost 2007? Will I do it again in 2007? No, most likely not. My attitude has changed. I have begun helping others, taking a decidedly more fun approach to the game. Its been a riot having the resources to do so.Cuff of Everfrost.

Shadowtzer

03-15-2007, 07:52 PM

<cite>Afterdark wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just remember to log in at least once every 24 hours to re-set the sales timer. 24 hours after you log off you items are no longer for sale on the broker so you need to log in once a day to re-set this.</blockquote>Ok can you explain this to me? I have been gone on vacation or whatnot and have not logged on for over 24 hours and I still sell items. In fact there was one week where I sold stuff every day and I was off-game for 8 days straight.

Calthine

03-15-2007, 08:01 PM

<cite>Shadowtzer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Afterdark wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just remember to log in at least once every 24 hours to re-set the sales timer. 24 hours after you log off you items are no longer for sale on the broker so you need to log in once a day to re-set this.</blockquote>Ok can you explain this to me? I have been gone on vacation or whatnot and have not logged on for over 24 hours and I still sell items. In fact there was one week where I sold stuff every day and I was off-game for 8 days straight.</blockquote> Not in the last year, you haven't. I'll guarentee it. You are removed from the broker 24 hours after you were last logged in. PS - I confirmed this when I was at Summit.