AA Questions about Mez

[Psych]

    I'm not really sure which AAs to take between the Wisdom line to increase my Subjugation skill or the Penetration line to decrease the resists on the spells themselves.I find myself mezzing quite a bit in groups and would like to cut the resists as much as possible while obviously spending as few points as I can.     For 20  points (4-4-4-<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> in the wisdom line I believe I can get (I'm assuming there are no diminishing returns on points spent) +25.6 Subjugation skill or for 15 points in the Penetration line -25% chance to resist on single target mez, group mez, and root.     Obviously both would be dominant but I'm unsure if any are really needed at all. Advice?

[gchouin]

<p>Well at level 70 i dont really find mezzing that important.  Only do it in Nizara, MMC and some when solo'ing instances.  Get very few resists with no points in either of the lines using Momentary Sentiment when needed.</p><p> If your really want to put points in those lines i would recommend the Penetration line.  You can get alot of Subj gear in T7.</p><p>Beguile, 70 Illusionist, Unrest</p>

[Ardnahoy]

<cite>gchouin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well at level 70 i dont really find mezzing that important.  Only do it in Nizara, MMC and some when solo'ing instances.  Get very few resists with no points in either of the lines using Momentary Sentiment when needed.</p><p> If your really want to put points in those lines i would recommend the Penetration line.  You can get alot of Subj gear in T7.</p><p>Beguile, 70 Illusionist, Unrest</p></blockquote><p> There is a difference between "getting few resists" and "getting no resists at all". Using momentary sentiment is not reliable, so don't use that as an excuse to ignore the WIS line. Momentary Sentiment has a very long recast timer, so even if you spam it, it will only be available for 33% of the fight.</p><p>With gear, I have almost 400 subjugation, and when I am not specced in the WIS line, I get resists about 20% of the time. That is one resist out of every 5 tries versus anything even con heroic and above. With the WIS line, I see no more than maybe one resist out of 50 ~ 0.2%. With the WIS line as well as the Penetration line maxed, I get zero resists on anything that is not red.</p><p>The WIS line is almost like having permanent Momentary Sentiment on you at all times. The Penetration line is like have it on all the time but only for Mezz and Root. The WIS line will cost you 20 AA's, and affects all of our crowd control spells, including stuns and silence. The Penetration line costs 15 AA but only affects 3 of our 4 main crowd control spells. The penetration line also has the added bonus of increasing the duration of the 3 spells it affects, which effectively lets us control one extra encounter.</p><p>Having both is probably overkill, but you have to have at least one or the other if you want to call yourself an enchanter. When I had both, I really felt like a CC master, although I realized that the AA's lost some value through diminishing results curve and could be spent elsewhere.</p><p>To the OP, if you use stuns and silence, then spend the extra 5 AA's on the WIS line. Otherwise, the 15 from Penetration will suffice.</p>

[Controlor]

I have tried verious things with my AA's. was going down sta line tried int line. Sure int line is nice for the dps but /shrug i am lazy and dont like to dps i prefer to CC and support OR solo. So went down teh wis line. 1 the aa you put for the + 100 to ALL resists / point is tasty. 2 the + subj is enough for me to NOT need subj gear. An illy with 390-400 subj and 5 points in your main mez in penetration tree. and 3 in your fast cast single mez or  4 and 4 either way will make it so those spells are pretty much unresistable. THIS allows me to focus on Disruption gear. Which is helpful for soloing. AA subj for stun + disrub for color shower and daze = happy illy here. So it may seem over kill i dont really care to go full penetration as i went illusory and time compress. but you will want to put at least some into your primary mez and possibly in secondary single mez. I often chat with a coercer friend of mine about our stats resists and such. He has to have 450+ subj to have same effect as us on mezing what we can at 400 + some in penetration. So imo its good to throw at least some into penetration (yah dont need to go all at it tho) and wis line is good. But if you wanna do more dps and less cc / support then go int line and agi line.

[kamieldehond]

<p>i have 100 aa. put my kos aa in int and agi and put my eof aa so i have illusory arm and time compression. this means i have 8 points in the eof unspend and i put them int he penetration line/ 5 in primary mezz and 3 in secundary. All my mezz are master I. They are cheap on my server <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> My gear isnt that good it boost my subjugation with 15 points max. I have zero problems mezzing anything not even nizara not even on the lvl 75 boss there.</p><p> If you ask me putting points in wis line is a waist of points. Just get time compression and illusory arm and everybody will love you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Ardnahoy]

<cite>kamieldehond wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>i have 100 aa. put my kos aa in int and agi and put my eof aa so i have illusory arm and time compression. this means i have 8 points in the eof unspend and i put them int he penetration line/ 5 in primary mezz and 3 in secundary. All my mezz are master I. They are cheap on my server <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> My gear isnt that good it boost my subjugation with 15 points max. I have zero problems mezzing anything not even nizara not even on the lvl 75 boss there.</p><p> If you ask me putting points in wis line is a waist of points. Just get time compression and illusory arm and everybody will love you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote><p> Just to let you know where I stand, I also have 100 AA and have switched between the WIS and INT line exactly 5 times. I wear fabled and some EoF legendary gear. I do not wear any treasured or mastercrafted items. All my CC spells are master, and I'm only missing a total of 4 master spells. Depending on what items I equip, my subjugation ranges between 387 to 409 and my disruption ranges between 362 to 401. The following is my opinion, based on experimentation and play preference.</p><p>The INT line is fantastic for our DPS, and quite satisfying if you like seeing crits in your chat window. But make no mistake, your CC spells will get resisted way too often, and Fleeting Sentiment will not mask your inability to provide stable crowd control. I once tried the INT tree with 15 points in penetration but the results just aren't the same. Subjugation gear only helps so much. People who haven't played with the WIS line have no idea how powerful our CC abilities can be when the spells never get resisted.</p><p>At first glance, the WIS line does not seem to do much at all. You don't really notice how it helps you as you progress down the line. Even when it is maxed, you don't really <i>see</i> any difference. I believe that this lack of eye candy contributes to the common mistake people make when underestimating the WIS line. Only when you have it, and then spec out of it, do you realize how amazing the WIS line is for CC. Fact is, with the WIS line, your CC is nearly always perfect. No matter how much people complain that CC is diminished in this game, the fact is that bad CC gets you and your group killed. All the DPS in the world is irrelevant if you are dead. A well played WIS specced illusionist is darn near unbeatable.</p><p>Now, some high end illusionists have a hardcore DPS > all mentality. This is a perfectly acceptable way of thinking. For those types of players, the INT line is a no-brainer. They are in uber high-end guilds where CC is irrelevant, soloing is unnecessary, and grouping is guild-only where everyone plays perfectly. If you find yourself in that category, then you already are using the INT line. A well played INT specced illusionist will parse very high in groups and raids.</p><p>If you happen to be in the other category where the rest of the 98% of us play, then you have a choice to make. Do you want to show up in the top 4 raid parse list and have no reliable CC ability, or do you want to parse with the fighters and be able to have stable CC abilities? Do you want to be a group lifesaver, or a group mini-wizard? Do you want to solo safely but slowly, or quickly while dying a lot? Those are your two choices, and only you can answer that question.</p><p>My opinion is that every illusionist should go down the WIS line while levelling up, especially if they plan to solo. I'd do the WIS line before even starting the AGI line. Once you can rely on your CC spells (and staying alive), only then can you really start thinking about killing things faster. Once you reach level 70, or your 50'th kOS AA, then feel free to experiment. You can always respec if you are not satisfied.</p>

[Controlor]

Ardnahoy : ) agree full heartedly (sept i went the agi befor wis line when i was lvling up just cause i looooooooove perpetuality). It really does come down to what you want. DPS is agi / int. CC is Wis and whatever (usually agi altho if you wanna be pure support for buffing and such sta could work). Since i am a primary soloer or raid CCer (as lacking dps in raids so need the CC cause cant burn multi mobs down fast enough) I went wis. Again with that 390-400 subj and penetration is pretty much unresistable mezing. And with wis line you can get 390 subj EASY. This allows for +disrup gear boosting that will effect all our other dmg spells resistability which is extreamly useful while soloing. But yes if you want to go pure dps illy and only using initial buffs by all means go agi int.

[noetici]

<p>Hmm.</p><p>This is actually the very very very very first time since rolling my Illusionist and attempting to become a member of the Illusionist community that I've seen someone actually talking about doing the best crowd control they can.</p><p>Thank you ! I had almost lost my mind. I can understand in raids that crowd control isn't needed. Fine, dandy. But I don't raid much. Why would I care about my dps? I didn't roll an illusionist to do dps, that's what my brigand, swash and warlock are for. I'll be damned if I'm going to try to keep my mana below 30% too.</p><p>BUT I will say that with virtually no debuffers, at level 66 I had few issues mezzing in Unrest, and when I was 65, I had few issues mezzing in Castle Mistmoore. Admittedly, I do have both the encounter mez and single target at M1, but still... do undead and vampires have low mental resists or something? I'm Agi/Sta specced and TC/Double Arm for EoF, with all my excess points in the mez lin, which currently is like two points if that.</p>