Please don't nerf the Mystic's 50% SOW [Archive]

Specteral

02-23-2007, 06:43 PM

I'm not sure I'd call it a class defining ability, but I too am greatly saddened by the upcoming 'reduction'. I don't really understand it from a technical or roleplay perspective. Was the 50% runspeed causing mechanical problems? Not that I'm aware. Should the person being 'whisked away on the backs of the spirits' move slower than other comparable abilities? Or better yet, why dropped 10%? Comparable spells are 5% lower... Ah well. Perhaps the devs will reconsider, but if not I guess I'll have to get used to only being 2% faster than average horses (wearing me 'ole JBoots of course..) EDIT: Added my responce to the previous poster. <cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote>It must have sucked to have to wait till the third expansion to get a class defining ability then. </blockquote> Technically we have had SoW since launch. Level 13 spell. However, the enhanced version (which it seems safe to believe that both you and the OP are counting as the spell itself) has only been available since EoF. Just wanted to clarify. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ... or maybe I've been on my Coercer too much and became evil...

Expiate

02-23-2007, 08:44 PM

What I meant was it's the mystic's class defining ability to SoW at 50% <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

KNINE

02-25-2007, 08:13 AM

Kudar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>I'm not sure I'd call it a class defining ability, but I too am greatly saddened by the upcoming 'reduction'. I don't really understand it from a technical or roleplay perspective. Was the 50% runspeed causing mechanical problems? Not that I'm aware. Should the person being 'whisked away on the backs of the spirits' move slower than other comparable abilities? Or better yet, why dropped 10%? Comparable spells are 5% lower... Ah well. Perhaps the devs will reconsider, but if not I guess I'll have to get used to only being 2% faster than average horses (wearing me 'ole JBoots of course..) I would say it would be due to some bards being upset <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>

Kasandria

02-25-2007, 01:14 PM

Aw no way! I worked my butt off getting my mystic enough AA to get this to 50% so she can keep up with my monk. There is no reason for this. If the bards are needing an increase then let them have one and STOP TAKING STUFF AWAY!

Korpo

02-26-2007, 07:33 PM

<cite>Expiate wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I meant was it's the mystic's class defining ability to SoW at 50% <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Mystics are defined as a class that SoWs 50%? It must have been rough for all the mystics out there (mine included) that didn't get to be defined until the third expansion came out, two years or so after launch. Mystics everywhere were standing around doing nothing, just kind of /afk in QH since they couldn't do anything at all, since their class defining ability to speed people up by 50% hadn't been put in the game yet. I don't even know why I bothered to buy all those masters and all that gear for my mystic, since apparently all mystics do is SoW people and you get that for free when you hit level 13 + 8 AAs. After all, that's what the class is defined as, right? I looked it up in my EQ2 manual, here's what it says: Mystic: A class that casts a 50% SoW.

ScurvyTRatt

02-26-2007, 09:18 PM

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Expiate wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I meant was it's the mystic's class defining ability to SoW at 50% <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Mystics are defined as a class that SoWs 50%? It must have been rough for all the mystics out there (mine included) that didn't get to be defined until the third expansion came out, two years or so after launch. Mystics everywhere were standing around doing nothing, just kind of /afk in QH since they couldn't do anything at all, since their class defining ability to speed people up by 50% hadn't been put in the game yet. I don't even know why I bothered to buy all those masters and all that gear for my mystic, since apparently all mystics do is SoW people and you get that for free when you hit level 13 + 8 AAs. After all, that's what the class is defined as, right? I looked it up in my EQ2 manual, here's what it says: Mystic: A class that casts a 50% SoW. </blockquote>Wow. Who [Removed for Content] in your cheerios!?Regardless, the 50% sow was the prime reason I picked mystic over warden when making a Fae. I spent a lot of time working out level 70 and my 67 AAs so far. My prime reason was with the 50% sow I could keep up with my guild on their 50% horses, since it is stupid for something that can fly to ride an animal that can only move across the ground.So after all this work and enjoying a character I am going to have to lose the one reason I picked it over another. Additionally, I do not have the option with betrayal to switch to my second choice, a Warden who now not only is what I want to play but also now runs faster than I do.This is the stupidist decision making ever made on the part of a company. First off, Mystic is the second to last class needing any kind of nerf (only a bard is worse as far as love). If there is a problem with a mystic going too fast compared to a bad, just make the bard go faster.PS: Why is a corercer so pleased with mystics getting nerfed?

thedu

02-26-2007, 11:18 PM

Xolanne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote> </blockquote>Wow. Who [Removed for Content] in your cheerios!?Regardless, the 50% sow was the prime reason I picked mystic over warden when making a Fae. I spent a lot of time working out level 70 and my 67 AAs so far. My prime reason was with the 50% sow I could keep up with my guild on their 50% horses, since it is stupid for something that can fly to ride an animal that can only move across the ground.So after all this work and enjoying a character I am going to have to lose the one reason I picked it over another. Additionally, I do not have the option with betrayal to switch to my second choice, a Warden who now not only is what I want to play but also now runs faster than I do.This is the stupidist decision making ever made on the part of a company. First off, Mystic is the second to last class needing any kind of nerf (only a bard is worse as far as love). If there is a problem with a mystic going too fast compared to a bad, just make the bard go faster.PS: Why is a corercer so pleased with mystics getting nerfed? </blockquote> SoW was the reason you picked a Mystic? /BOGGLE!?!!?!

SandDragon

02-27-2007, 12:42 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The one thing I must say is that the SoW never has been and never will be the Mystic class defining ability. Our class defining abilities are our wards and debuffs, plain and simple. Was the 50% SoW fun? Yes it was. It's not like we are completely loosing it. It's dropping by 10% to give us a 40% SoW. Get some J-boots and you will still be able to run along with your 50% horse guildies.I don't want my 50% SoW to go either but it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

ScurvyTRatt

02-27-2007, 03:00 PM

<cite>thedump wrote:</cite><blockquote>Xolanne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote> </blockquote>Wow. Who [Removed for Content] in your cheerios!?Regardless, the 50% sow was the prime reason I picked mystic over warden when making a Fae. I spent a lot of time working out level 70 and my 67 AAs so far. My prime reason was with the 50% sow I could keep up with my guild on their 50% horses, since it is stupid for something that can fly to ride an animal that can only move across the ground.So after all this work and enjoying a character I am going to have to lose the one reason I picked it over another. Additionally, I do not have the option with betrayal to switch to my second choice, a Warden who now not only is what I want to play but also now runs faster than I do.This is the stupidist decision making ever made on the part of a company. First off, Mystic is the second to last class needing any kind of nerf (only a bard is worse as far as love). If there is a problem with a mystic going too fast compared to a bad, just make the bard go faster.PS: Why is a corercer so pleased with mystics getting nerfed? </blockquote> SoW was the reason you picked a Mystic? /BOGGLE!?!!?! </blockquote>Over a warden? Yes. The main reason, as something that can fly I find it crazy to want to ride a horse. Thats like someone with a cessna airplane deciding to take a car because the car is faster to get across the US. Additionaly, I can help new members keep up with the 50% horse pack. As much as I would like to go through and have everyone in the guild one by one as they join through J-Boots this is so much better. Additionally, J-Boots don't cut the mustard stat wise, and having to swap gear when you get jumped traveling from here to there (I play on a pvp server) is not the best idea. Also, wearing a set of EOF armor with a set bonus is nullified when not wearing the boots.I am surprised to see so much negativity against mystics. I didn't realize that we, and in particular our movement speed makes so many other people so mad as to come to our boards and post flames and work to get us nerfed.

pcivil

02-27-2007, 05:11 PM

<cite>Winkles wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mystics are defined as a class that SoWs 50%? It must have been rough for all the mystics out there (mine included) that didn't get to be defined until the third expansion came out, two years or so after launch. Mystics everywhere were standing around doing nothing, just kind of /afk in QH since they couldn't do anything at all, since their class defining ability to speed people up by 50% hadn't been put in the game yet. I don't even know why I bothered to buy all those masters and all that gear for my mystic, since apparently all mystics do is SoW people and you get that for free when you hit level 13 + 8 AAs. After all, that's what the class is defined as, right? I looked it up in my EQ2 manual, here's what it says: Mystic: A class that casts a 50% SoW.</blockquote>You gotta admit, that was pretty funny.

Korpo

02-27-2007, 10:18 PM

Xolanne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Expiate wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I meant was it's the mystic's class defining ability to SoW at 50% <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Mystics are defined as a class that SoWs 50%? It must have been rough for all the mystics out there (mine included) that didn't get to be defined until the third expansion came out, two years or so after launch. Mystics everywhere were standing around doing nothing, just kind of /afk in QH since they couldn't do anything at all, since their class defining I don't even know why I bothered to buy all those masters and all that gear for my mystic, since apparently all mystics do is SoW people and you get that for free when you hit level 13 + 8 AAs. After all, that's what the class is defined as, right? I looked it up in my EQ2 manual, here's what it says: Mystic: A class that casts a 50% SoW. </blockquote>Wow. Who [Removed for Content] in your cheerios!?Regardless, the 50% sow was the prime reason I picked mystic over warden when making a Fae. I spent a lot of time working out level 70 and my 67 AAs so far. My prime reason was with the 50% sow I could keep up with my guild on their 50% horses, since it is stupid for something that can fly to ride an animal that can only move across the ground.So after all this work and enjoying a character I am going to have to lose the one reason I picked it over another. Additionally, I do not have the option with betrayal to switch to my second choice, a Warden who now not only is what I want to play but also now runs faster than I do.This is the stupidist decision making ever made on the part of a company. First off, Mystic is the second to last class needing any kind of nerf (only a bard is worse as far as love). If there is a problem with a mystic going too fast compared to a bad, just make the bard go faster.PS: Why is a corercer so pleased with mystics getting nerfed? </blockquote>If you picked a mystic only because they had a 50% SoW, then I'm glad you're getting nerfed, even if it means I get it too. You obviously don't know what a mystic is, or what it's for, or what they can do. You are the reason there are threads everywhere about how mystics are horrible healers, probably because they see you running around just SoWing people. Where did I say I was pleased about the nerf? Just like everyone else I sold my horse and have been scooting along at turbo speed and loving it. You mistake my irritation with those that claim whatever ability they like is class defining with pleasure at seeing someone nerfed. If you like you can go back and read the threads where I ripped into someone claiming "charming mobs in Valdoon is class defining for coercers", the one where I made a SK look silly for claiming that "casting spells on the run is class defining (for SKs)", or the one where I made a fool of the mystic claiming that "50% SoW is class defining". Quality reads, all of them. PS: Emphasis for the reading impaired that missed not one, but two references to my having a mystic in one post, and then misspelled coercer.

jboneiii

02-28-2007, 01:02 PM

It was nerfed. 6% down to 4%

WarreSammontakoja

02-28-2007, 02:21 PM

And same time we're getting nerfed bards get a new runningspeed thingie at lvl 55 =P

pinkchicky

03-01-2007, 02:29 AM

now that they nerfed it and we only get 40 percent why do the wardens get the keep their 45? Kinda unfair and dont understand why they would do that to Mystics

LizzyIzzy2

03-01-2007, 11:23 AM

I'm [Removed for Content] off because I have to rebuy a horse (yes I sold mine back when I took the 50% SoW). You don't get back as much as you pay for it so...way to drive the economy SOE!

Angilia Everheart

03-01-2007, 11:43 AM

My two cents. I would not go as far as saying that the 50% SOW was the class defining ability but I will say it was one of the only cookies they give Mystics when it comes to AA points and the utility spells. Almost every value for the class AA list is based off the One hit wonder pet. Now how would you feel if you spent any AA points and on the first AE the pet is gone and not there to provide you any benefit?Now add that to our comparison being the two leather healer classes. they each get utility spells given to them with evac, group invis, ports and such. Name something the Mystic has for that type of utility? We will not go into the heals and such this is strictly on the utility spelll level because thats what were comparing. (But if you want to ask any healer class the comparison I will guarantee we can all heal almost the same but the mystic cant DPS for crap unlike the other two classes)Now you add into the fact that they nerfed the run speed and did not even give us the ability to respec that branch for free and it adds to the frustration. The faster SOW was the only thing when it came to the utilities that gave the mystics a cookie why yank it. If the bard types were complaning make the bards just as fast and give them the ability to single cast for the group and not have to recast and you have yourself happy mystics and happy bards.

thedu

03-01-2007, 02:15 PM

SnAke19

03-02-2007, 10:03 AM

i can´t understand it -there was no explanation from devs side why this nerv was neccessary meanwhile really think about quitting the game(not only because of this but ones comes to another)- updates seem to be more and more arbitrary after this long time of developement there´s still no balance in game-there is still one class which gets more and more powerfull up to the point it gets too powerfull and than nerv it completely so that it gets even useless things which no one even cares get fixed/changed in game while mayor problems were ignored completely many friends already quit the game because of this and it become more every day

Rayche

03-03-2007, 06:58 PM

The lack of communication is easily for me equal to the frustration of the nerf itself.

ScurvyTRatt

03-05-2007, 07:09 PM

<cite>Gojirax wrote:</cite><blockquote>The lack of communication is easily for me equal to the frustration of the nerf itself. </blockquote> Agreed.I thought I could work with the 40% but can't. Countless people escaped from me this weekend on their freebie carpets and it was really really disheartening. Getting chased down by the legions of druids out there, even more so. I'm really kicking myself now for not playing a warden. Kicking the speed down to the newbie carpet is the killer, now its just about 5 wasted AAs. No explination, drastic change to class compared to multiple classes. Its terrible.I usually duo with a dirge, and she has always been faster than me. It was great before because part of her speed stacked with the sow. So that with SOW on both of us and while we were grouped we would go 63% runspeed (we are both fae). Now, no matter what I cast on her, its only 46% for her and best I can muster is 40% for me.So, we have angry bards and angry mystics. I played my mystic a bit this weekend but now find it difficult to log her on. Shame on the development team for such a stupid decision. Rank it up there with crap like the CU and NGE in SWG. I find it sad that the reason that I leave MMOs is because of nerfs (quit EQ2 when they nerfed my templar way back before PVP.) than getting bored of the game.

DevilDi

03-06-2007, 05:06 PM

Xolanne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gojirax wrote:</cite><blockquote>The lack of communication is easily for me equal to the frustration of the nerf itself. </blockquote> Agreed.I thought I could work with the 40% but can't. Countless people escaped from me this weekend on their freebie carpets and it was really really disheartening. Getting chased down by the legions of druids out there, even more so. I'm really kicking myself now for not playing a warden. Kicking the speed down to the newbie carpet is the killer, now its just about 5 wasted AAs. No explination, drastic change to class compared to multiple classes. Its terrible.I usually duo with a dirge, and she has always been faster than me. It was great before because part of her speed stacked with the sow. So that with SOW on both of us and while we were grouped we would go 63% runspeed (we are both fae). Now, no matter what I cast on her, its only 46% for her and best I can muster is 40% for me.So, we have angry bards and angry mystics. I played my mystic a bit this weekend but now find it difficult to log her on. Shame on the development team for such a stupid decision. Rank it up there with crap like the CU and NGE in SWG. I find it sad that the reason that I leave MMOs is because of nerfs (quit EQ2 when they nerfed my templar way back before PVP.) than getting bored of the game. </blockquote> You have GOT to be kidding me? Why should you have been able to out run horses and carpets? Has anyone considered the ability may have been too powerful? All other classes have to rely on expensive means of achieving what a Mystic could do at level 14. Scratch that...the Mystic has greater benefit without the hinderance of reduced backup speed. So the ability was brought in line with other classes so that the Mystic does not have a dramatic advantage and suddenly the game is over for you?Wow.Can I have your stuff?

DevilDi

03-06-2007, 05:17 PM

<cite>SnAke1983 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i can´t understand it -there was no explanation from devs side why this nerv was neccessary meanwhile really think about quitting the game(not only because of this but ones comes to another)- updates seem to be more and more arbitrary after this long time of developement there´s still no balance in game-there is still one class which gets more and more powerfull up to the point it gets too powerfull and than nerv it completely so that it gets even useless things which no one even cares get fixed/changed in game while mayor problems were ignored completely many friends already quit the game because of this and it become more every day </blockquote> Quitting because your run speed buff has been reduced?I am utterly shocked at how over the top some of these posts have been. It is little wonder dev's do not respond much with the level of hysteria displayed over a completely vanilla change.

DevilDi

03-06-2007, 05:34 PM

Angilia Everheart wrote: <blockquote>My two cents. I would not go as far as saying that the 50% SOW was the class defining ability but I will say it was one of the only cookies they give Mystics when it comes to AA points and the utility spells. Almost every value for the class AA list is based off the One hit wonder pet. Now how would you feel if you spent any AA points and on the first AE the pet is gone and not there to provide you any benefit?Now add that to our comparison being the two leather healer classes. they each get utility spells given to them with evac, group invis, ports and such. Name something the Mystic has for that type of utility? We will not go into the heals and such this is strictly on the utility spelll level because thats what were comparing. (But if you want to ask any healer class the comparison I will guarantee we can all heal almost the same but the mystic cant DPS for crap unlike the other two classes)Now you add into the fact that they nerfed the run speed and did not even give us the ability to respec that branch for free and it adds to the frustration. The faster SOW was the only thing when it came to the utilities that gave the mystics a cookie why yank it. If the bard types were complaning make the bards just as fast and give them the ability to single cast for the group and not have to recast and you have yourself happy mystics and happy bards. </blockquote>If you seriously want to compare Druid vs Mystic, look at the entire class(es):Mystics provide far superiour hit point buffs compared to the Warden (minor) and Fury (none).Mystics prevent damage vs the constant healing of a Druid. The Druid has to work their tales off to accomplish what a Mystic can do with a few wards.Utility? Bolster anyone? Or maybe the HoT pet a Mystic has (a true class defining ability given as a freebee to the Mystic). How about two group cures? Let us not forget the five debuffs a Mystic can strip a mob down while the Druid gets...one? Maybe?You want to talk flavor in AA? The shaman pet is a boon. 16% haste with a constant, 0 mana cost DoT, ward, damage and deaggro procs. Yes, it is fragile at low levels. It is also incredibly useful. Going into the Mystic tree, a boost to the already powerful STR, STA and AGI buff that give WIS and INT? Name another class that can boost all stats of the tank in one spell. Through each branch you get boosts to all the most commonly used spells including longer duration of Bolster and updates to cures.The Mystic really has nothing to cry about.

Owlbe

03-06-2007, 06:21 PM

Mystics provide far superiour hit point buffs compared to the Warden (minor) and Fury (none).We are bested by Defilers in the hp buffing dept. we're probably second over all so nothing class defining. Each healer has his specialty. Mystics have no int/wis buffs at all (unless with aa investment in avatar and thats only on 1 person). Furys or wardens blow mystics away in their respective specialty. Mystics prevent damage vs the constant healing of a Druid. The Druid has to work their tales off to accomplish what a Mystic can do with a few wards.Ward are pro-active and healing is reactive. They both have their uses and strengths and weaknesses. Utility? Bolster anyone? Or maybe the HoT pet a Mystic has (a true class defining ability given as a freebee to the Mystic). How about two group cures? Let us not forget the five debuffs a Mystic can strip a mob down while the Druid gets...one? Maybe?Bolster is nice sure. The mystic hot pet is terrible as the range is horrible so don't even attempt to compare that to the far superior group hots a druid has, the healing pet is hardly class defining. Mystics only have 1 reliable group heal because of the short comings of the umbral attendant. Mystics only have 1 grp cure for poison and arcane. We have another single target cure all and a group ward vs. poison/disease. Nothing a warden doesn't have. Mystics have debuffs sure, as do defilers and clerics and druids do get gyped a bit in this dept but is more than made up for it with utility (ie evac, invis, damage shields etc, etc) You want to talk flavor in AA? The shaman pet is a boon. 16% haste with a constant, 0 mana cost DoT, ward, damage and deaggro procs. Yes, it is fragile at low levels. It is also incredibly useful. Going into the Mystic tree, a boost to the already powerful STR, STA and AGI buff that give WIS and INT? Name another class that can boost all stats of the tank in one spell. Through each branch you get boosts to all the most commonly used spells including longer duration of Bolster and updates to cures.I stopped using the pet along time ago and spec'd out of any dog abilities because it is so weak, a dead dog isn't useful as the dog is fragile at ALL lvls and gets worse as you get higher not better. On raids a lot of mobs use non-class non-direct aoes that will kill the pet out right regardless of whether you''re str spec'd or not. I find it frustrating and not worth it, mileage may vary. MANY shamans do not use the pet so that pretty much shoots down that argument. Even with Avatar a defiler will still give a tank more hps and thats what hardcore raiders really care about anyways and the 48 points of int/wis avatar gives a tank is not going to do anything for a tank for that matter. The cure tree sucks as well. The Mystic really has nothing to cry about..... says the Fury with his 45%-50% in combat run speed

DevilDi

03-06-2007, 07:06 PM

Ok. The bottom line is that a Mystic has far, far more ability and utility than just an upgraded SoW.I actually responded but the forums ate my homework. Nonetheless, several issues:* Shaman's that do not use the dog are gimping themselves. If a mob has an AoE that one-shots the dog, don't send it in on that mob. Not every mob in every zone AoE's.* If Defilers are the end-all, be-all of Shamans, why have you all not betrayed? * A Fury may be a caster's friend but the tank (that toon we are supposed to be supporting) gains very little from the Druid. It is rare to see a Druid in MT group.* I have not wasted a single AA on any speed enhancement. It is pointless.

ScurvyTRatt

03-06-2007, 08:46 PM

<cite>DevilDice wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok. The bottom line is that a Mystic has far, far more ability and utility than just an upgraded SoW.I actually responded but the forums ate my homework. Nonetheless, several issues:* Shaman's that do not use the dog are gimping themselves. If a mob has an AoE that one-shots the dog, don't send it in on that mob. Not every mob in every zone AoE's.* If Defilers are the end-all, be-all of Shamans, why have you all not betrayed? * A Fury may be a caster's friend but the tank (that toon we are supposed to be supporting) gains very little from the Druid. It is rare to see a Druid in MT group.* I have not wasted a single AA on any speed enhancement. It is pointless. </blockquote>Wow, I am glad you see it that way. As the one who is not being nerfed it is funny to see how angry you are. On a PvP server the dog is insta dead. Unless, maybe your are 1v1 on a wizard or healer. Just about everyone hits that one green spell that one shots the dog.On a PvP server I cannot become a defiler without leaving my guild.We have a fury in every one of our main tank group raids always. And that fury and I are usually very close on the over all raid heal parse. Also if there isn't a Fury its a warden in there who does even better with that tree, oh and they have evac, oh and they do more DPS, oh and they move faster, both in and out of combat. Fury in combat speed is the current "I win" button of PvP. They go faster in combat that the freebie carpet does out of combat. Not only can they run freebie carpet people down, they can do it while in combat.Oh and druids do more DPS, can heal more effciently, have roots and snares that are both ranged...Again, I am kicking myself for having not made a warden. Having known that I was going to get nerfed I would have made a warden long ago instead of a Mystic. I picked the mystic because it had the superior out of combat run speed.

Owlbe

03-06-2007, 08:49 PM

Ok. The bottom line is that a Mystic has far, far more ability and utility than just an upgraded SoW.Not disputing that at all. The point mystics are trying to make is other classes have that kind of run speed (namely druids) and theres was not nerfed. Why ours? Some explanation on why (not speculation) would clarify the frustration. I actually responded but the forums ate my homework. Nonetheless, several issues:* Shaman's that do not use the dog are gimping themselves. If a mob has an AoE that one-shots the dog, don't send it in on that mob. Not every mob in every zone AoE's.The dogs haste aura is a aoe based around the dog if the dog is not near the ones that would most benefit the haste (the melee'ers) which are near the mob then the haste is useless so the dog can not be sitting at your side far away from the action the dog has to be in the thick of things. This also goes for any of its auras and for its debuffs and aoe wards to fire the dog needs to be biting the target ie: if the dog is not in the fight you might as well not have it at all. Also a riposte from any big mob heroic+ mob will most likely 1 shot the dog as well. If you want to back place your dog on every mob, every fight and hope things don't change then be my guest but its to much like work for me as I have better things to do in a fight like ward, heal, debuff, and melee. Bottom line is yes, the dog has its uses but has HUGE weaknesses to offset them as well and thats why the powers are so good on paper but in reality its not so rosy. Like most aa's they are not supposed to be "class defining" and are all inter-changeable depending on play styles. If not having the str line [Removed for Content] a shaman than SoE would have made it a mandatory aa and not optional. * If Defilers are the end-all, be-all of Shamans, why have you all not betrayed? Actually I did. I started as a Mystic betrayed to a Defiler and then back to a Mystic. I've seen both side first and and the Defiler is pretty much superior in almost every way (not by a lot but noticeable). Why did I switch back? My wife started a fae wiz when eof came out and I was power leveling her up and I found it to hard to get spells off while tanking heroic mobs. The Mystic with the melee line is much more capable of doing what I needed. No other reason than that silly as it is. * A Fury may be a caster's friend but the tank (that toon we are supposed to be supporting) gains very little from the Druid. It is rare to see a Druid in MT group.Defilers are usually chosen over Mystics as well. Welcome to the B list my friend. Personally I could care less if I'm in the mt group or not. We don't have any defilers in our guild anyways so some times I'm there some times I'm not depending on who shows up but its usually a mystic preferred spot at least for us anyways. * I have not wasted a single AA on any speed enhancement. It is pointless. Scurvy TRatt was talking more from a pvp point of view and I bet there is not one Fury or one Warden who does not have their run speed maxed on the pvp servers For pve its a who cares thing but for pvp the speed nerf was probably as devastating as they said.

DevilDi

03-06-2007, 09:50 PM

Xolanne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>DevilDice wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok. The bottom line is that a Mystic has far, far more ability and utility than just an upgraded SoW.I actually responded but the forums ate my homework. Nonetheless, several issues:* Shaman's that do not use the dog are gimping themselves. If a mob has an AoE that one-shots the dog, don't send it in on that mob. Not every mob in every zone AoE's.* If Defilers are the end-all, be-all of Shamans, why have you all not betrayed? * A Fury may be a caster's friend but the tank (that toon we are supposed to be supporting) gains very little from the Druid. It is rare to see a Druid in MT group.* I have not wasted a single AA on any speed enhancement. It is pointless. </blockquote>Wow, I am glad you see it that way. As the one who is not being nerfed it is funny to see how angry you are. On a PvP server the dog is insta dead. Unless, maybe your are 1v1 on a wizard or healer. Just about everyone hits that one green spell that one shots the dog.On a PvP server I cannot become a defiler without leaving my guild.We have a fury in every one of our main tank group raids always. And that fury and I are usually very close on the over all raid heal parse. Also if there isn't a Fury its a warden in there who does even better with that tree, oh and they have evac, oh and they do more DPS, oh and they move faster, both in and out of combat. Fury in combat speed is the current "I win" button of PvP. They go faster in combat that the freebie carpet does out of combat. Not only can they run freebie carpet people down, they can do it while in combat.Oh and druids do more DPS, can heal more effciently, have roots and snares that are both ranged...Again, I am kicking myself for having not made a warden. Having known that I was going to get nerfed I would have made a warden long ago instead of a Mystic. I picked the mystic because it had the superior out of combat run speed. </blockquote> I'm not angry. I'm shocked at how big a deal this is being made into. Btw, Yehaa (Pantherian Sect); Befallen; 70 Mystic/54 Sage - Had I not poured the love and attention into the Fury that I have, I would make this my main. So, on PvP servers the out of combat speed buff isn't canceled? Otherwise, isn't the whole point moot? Then again, I see no appeal in the PvP to begin with. I certainly wouldn't have picked the Shaman for most of the reasons you state. Unless it is a named fight, there is no reason to have a druid in the MT group. Almost all the druid strengths are wasted in that group. Yes, Fury's have far more dps. It seems that is what my Fury is being made into. Almost all of my Fury AA's are for dealing damage. I get a boost to my emergancy heal and that is it. A healer that gets no help healing. Great. More efficient healing? I completely disagree. Faster, yes. The wards of a Shaman and reactives of the cleric are far more efficient.

DevilDi

03-06-2007, 10:13 PM

<cite>Owlbear wrote:</cite><blockquote> * I have not wasted a single AA on any speed enhancement. It is pointless. Scurvy TRatt was talking more from a pvp point of view and I bet there is not one Fury or one Warden who does not have their run speed maxed on the pvp servers For pve its a who cares thing but for pvp the speed nerf was probably as devastating as they said. </blockquote> But I don't see how. SoW has always cancelled during combat. The only in combat speed increase I know of is Pact of the Cheetah which is only a short term burst of speed.

Owlbe

03-07-2007, 12:34 PM

Pvp works slightly different than pve servers so thats probably why you're having great confusion with the whole subject. In pvp your speed buffs do not kick out till you attack so for escape from being ganked run speed is essential. In combat speed (which is also out of combat speed as well btw) is just that as you'll always be moving the same speed no matter if you're in combat or not so the possibility for hit and run tactics is staggering.

ScurvyTRatt

03-07-2007, 06:03 PM

<cite>Owlbear wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pvp works slightly different than pve servers so thats probably why you're having great confusion with the whole subject. In pvp your speed buffs do not kick out till you attack so for escape from being ganked run speed is essential. In combat speed (which is also out of combat speed as well btw) is just that as you'll always be moving the same speed no matter if you're in combat or not so the possibility for hit and run tactics is staggering. </blockquote> You hit the nail on the head. The importance of out of combat speed is first for the "Fight or Flight" decision. Suppose you are out solo, and see another person coming to you. You have to decide to engage or not engage, or more commonly WHEN to engage. Bait the other into attacking you (assuming they are not a druid) then you have out of combat, and they have incombat. Use SoW to get them to sprint off their power, turn around, Phalanx and beat them down. With no power, they are not going to be able to sprint away. Also, the shaman root, Phalanx, is really nice but it is a melee attack and you have to get into melee range. When chasing someone down before engaging and they are outrunning you on a newbie freebie carpet is just frustrating.With the tree in particular, A full power bar from a druid will often beat out a shaman, in particular in fights where there is a lot of AoE healing going on. In the end, the "I won't have to buy a horse to keep up with you guys" was the tipping factor in choosing what class to make when I came back to EQ2 after taking a long break. I thought it was pretty silly for something that can fly and has wings (a Fae) would ever want to ride a horse. So it was a terrible bait and switch. I have not logged in my Mystic since this weekend and just can't bring myself to do it. Even just wandering around town is depressing.No reason was ever given from the developers from this change, no explination. The change does not make the game any more fun for anyone involved. It was stupid, and stupid decisions like this are a big part of why the company has such a bad reputation. While other gaming companies use patches to make their games better, this one uses it to nerf people into playing less, or even not at all.I just wish I knew what got this put into the game. Seriously, was it some meeting where someone stood up and slammed their fist on the table and shouted "Damnit! Mystics run too darn fast! We gotta nerf it to uselessness or else we stand to lose customers! Nerfing mystics absolutely has to be done, and is more important than preventing people from zoning in PvP to keep the playerbase paying money! We must devote any and all company resources to nerfing mystic run speed! I can't believe people play this game while mystic run speed remains un-nerfed!"I mean seriously! What was going through their minds and who is the person who let it happen? Isn't there some sort of checks that go into stuff before its patched?Why does SOE keep making games and products worse rather than better. For example, these boards why are they so less functional now than before? Wouldn't you think with technology and such it would improve? What about EQ2Players, now it is lucky to be up let alone actually give results. Why make players weaker, why take away someone that so many hold so important? How does that make the game better? It doesn't bother me so much that Druids out run me, its that newbie freebie carpets do!On a side note: Recently someone posted fake patch notes for patch 33 on the Nagafen boards. Funny thing is, this player with her notes pretty much posted a huge list of changes that made just about everyone happy. And no one complaining other than a few people angry they were fake. Seriously, if some player in their free time can write up a list of things that makes the Nagafen community happy, that person needs to get the job as Patch manager! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Guy De Alsace

03-07-2007, 10:55 PM

I have a 66 Fury and a 70 Mystic. My Fury is generally far more capable of keeping the group alive mainly because the [Removed for Content] Mystic's wards take forever and a day to cast and the single target ward lasts for 1 hit, maybe 2 at level 70 in many instances at that level. My Fury can "fire and forget" heal with her master II HoT. This means I can whack a few big hitters in at times as well as slice and dice in melee should I feel the need. My Mystic stands there and chain casts wards and heals the entire encounter - cant do bugger all else. I got a 52 Templar too and even he can slap a slew of reactives on the tank then do some other neat stuff with his big chunky weapon for a bit of a change.Maybe its not down to statistical analysis and peeing contests about how many go faster stripes or added extras your class has, my Fury is a [Removed for Content] site more fun to play than my dowdy mystic.

Korpo

03-08-2007, 07:58 PM

Xolanne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>On a side note: Recently someone posted fake patch notes for patch 33 on the Nagafen boards. Funny thing is, this player with her notes pretty much posted a huge list of changes that made just about everyone happy. And no one complaining other than a few people angry they were fake. Seriously, if some player in their free time can write up a list of things that makes the Nagafen community happy, that person needs to get the job as Patch manager! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>People loved the fake notes because people love imbalance in anything, as long as it's towards them.

ScurvyTRatt

03-09-2007, 02:43 PM

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Xolanne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>On a side note: Recently someone posted fake patch notes for patch 33 on the Nagafen boards. Funny thing is, this player with her notes pretty much posted a huge list of changes that made just about everyone happy. And no one complaining other than a few people angry they were fake. Seriously, if some player in their free time can write up a list of things that makes the Nagafen community happy, that person needs to get the job as Patch manager! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>People loved the fake notes because people love imbalance in anything, as long as it's towards them. </blockquote> You have a point there. I just think this whole thing was handled really poorly. My partner (a Dirge) and I are both pretty down over it. Before the nerf SoW stacked with some part of her AA enhancement. With it she could go 67% and I could go 62% while we were grouped out of combat. Now she goes a flat 46% regardless and I go a flat 46% regardless (while we are grouped). Even grouped with a bard we can't catch the people on the cool horses. I honestly have not logged in my mystic since Monday and just don't have the desire to, its just not as fun anymore. I am saddened that it is possible for stupid stuff like this to happen, and still after all this time no explination on why the decision was made.

Korpo

03-09-2007, 08:44 PM

I would assume it was changed so those that spent massive piles of plat on cool horses couldn't be caught by those that spent 5 aa points enhancing a free spell.

Vis

03-14-2007, 11:59 AM

I think the bottom line was: There is no fathomable reason a SHAMMY should ever outrun a BARD, or have SoW that gives 50% runspeed. Dear lord that's some hopped up on steroids shammy.

dieschatten

03-20-2007, 07:54 AM

I dont understand what for probs all have. I have a Mystic Fea and with the AA Skill of SOW and with the Buff from a Quest in Keletin i have 50% runspeed. When nobody whats to make the Quest SOE gives you dont spam in a Forum.

Rommie10-284

03-20-2007, 04:01 PM

The shift in tone in the new year by the devs should give concern - this no-comment policy isn't winning any friends in the community. Only the TS guy is getting people fired up - and he's just temporary.

DevilDi

03-22-2007, 06:53 PM

<cite>Rommie10-284 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The shift in tone in the new year by the devs should give concern - this no-comment policy isn't winning any friends in the community. Only the TS guy is getting people fired up - and he's just temporary. </blockquote> The interaction has been incredible. Real responses about real issues. Don't mistake your non-answer to low priorty issues as indicative of anything other than the obvious: it isn't that big of a deal.

Caldabuse

03-22-2007, 09:57 PM

non-answer to low priority issues? The last time I saw any sort of comment about Mystic issues at all was after KOS came out, regarding Herbal Expertise. By 'low-priority', you mean 'someone else's', right? That someone can't be bothered to write a few sentences to explain why a class is being nerfed is never a sign of good communication. It always matters because these people are your customers and they deserve a proper answer when you make a change that negatively affects them. Well, they deserve to know when you make a positive one, but chances are, any company will sell the heck out of that. I hope you don't work in customer service, though I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. <cite>DevilDice wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rommie10-284 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The shift in tone in the new year by the devs should give concern - this no-comment policy isn't winning any friends in the community. Only the TS guy is getting people fired up - and he's just temporary. </blockquote> The interaction has been incredible. Real responses about real issues. Don't mistake your non-answer to low priorty issues as indicative of anything other than the obvious: it isn't that big of a deal.</blockquote>