Grizzlefang vs Rain Caller question

[Bayne]

my ranger just got the Rain Caller, I really like it, the proc lets me solo mobs much easier. How does it stack up vs the Grizzlefang bow? Should I still get the grizzlefang even though I got the Rain Caller?

[Anxi]

<p>Definetly go with Rain Caller for soloing and most likely grouping. As you've seen the stun proc is very nice.</p><p>If you raid at all I would use Grizz's until you get a better bow <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ranja]

RC has a higher high end damage rating so you will definately see DPS increase from it over Grizzle. Obviously, solo it is the shizzy. However, I use it for raids as well and have never had an issue. Obviously, if your strategy involves having the tank move the mob around after the engage call the it might be an issue. For my raids, RC has never been an issue b/c the tank positions the mob and then makes the engage call and it never moves again. In FTH, I use Grizzle for one mob that needs to be kited by the tank. (not gonna say which one<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)

[Prandtl]

I have to agree with Ranja.  Raincaller will crit much harder then Griz, so I tend to use it on most raids. I'll only swap out if the MT is having to move the mobs around, or if we have a chanter type stunning the target. The RC's target immunity kinda screws that up a bit.

[Anxi]

<p>IIRC the DR on Rain Caller is 75 and it's 77 on Grizz, the difference is so small it's hardly noticeable.</p><p>The only reason I don't like using Rain Caller on raids is the stun procs mess with other classes stuns that work a little better on epics.</p>

[Bayne]

thanks for the info guys! I guess I'll get the grizzlefang too

[Ranja]

<cite>Anxion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>IIRC the DR on Rain Caller is 75 and it's 77 on Grizz, the difference is so small it's hardly noticeable.</p><p>The only reason I don't like using Rain Caller on raids is the stun procs mess with other classes stuns that work a little better on epics.</p></blockquote>Yes you are correct but that is not the most important factor. Look at he damage range and it is higher with RC. This is also why the GDoH with a DR of 56 is alot better than most DW with a DR of 60+

[Torrin]

I use the Raincaller in Raids as well.  I usually pull with Bow of Searing Missiles as it has the longest reach (45m) of any bow I've found so gives a nice cushion for everyone.. also the RC can mess up a pull if the stun proc takes affect.. I do have the pvp bow as well but I seem to get more DPS out of the RainCaller.. even though the pvp bow has 82DR I believe compared to the RC's 75.. Maybe it's just the proc ups the DPS, as my RC Procs almost constantly every fight.  The downside, if you want to call it that, to using the RC is it's not Level 60+ meaning you can't put a Scintillating Adornment on it.. big loss though, 12 extra piercing or slashing damage per hit doesn't really seem like much to me in the first place. Be nice if bow adorns actually did something useful like the melee adorns.. like add a proc or something? just wishful thinking though.

[cahv]

<p>I personally would go with Grizz on raids & RC for soloing.  As mentioned earlier the DR of Grizz is slightly higher than RC but Grizz also has a dmg proc instead of a stun proc.  Thatz just my 2 copper...</p><p>Cahvanon, 70 Ranger, Oasis, Genesis</p><p>Drevkrol, 70 Defiler, Oasis, Genesis</p>

[Torrin]

<cite>cahv wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I personally would go with Grizz on raids & RC for soloing.  As mentioned earlier the DR of Grizz is slightly higher than RC but Grizz also has a dmg proc instead of a stun proc.  Thatz just my 2 copper...</p><p>Cahvanon, 70 Ranger, Oasis, Genesis</p><p>Drevkrol, 70 Defiler, Oasis, Genesis</p></blockquote>RC procs Magic Damage as well as the Stun.

[vochore]

<cite>Torrin wrote:</cite><blockquote> The downside, if you want to call it that, to using the RC is it's not Level 60+ meaning you can't put a Scintillating Adornment on it.. big loss though, 12 extra piercing or slashing damage per hit doesn't really seem like much to me in the first place. Be nice if bow adorns actually did something useful like the melee adorns.. like add a proc or something? just wishful thinking though. </blockquote> unfortunately since the raincaller is a heritage item you cant put an adornment on it anyways....i know...i tried lol

[cahv]

<p>I did not realize RC had a dmg proc along w/the stun proc.  At this point it really lookz like one is just about as good as the other heh.  Tho as far as the +12 piercing adornmetns go, having just one on your bow may not make that big of a diff but if you had two piercing dual weldz & placed +12 piercing adorn on each & on your bow & also had the +10 DPS neck item that would all add up to +46. Not too shabby.</p>

[Ranja]

<cite>cahv wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I personally would go with Grizz on raids & RC for soloing.  As mentioned earlier the DR of Grizz is slightly higher than RC but Grizz also has a dmg proc instead of a stun proc.  Thatz just my 2 copper...</p><p>Cahvanon, 70 Ranger, Oasis, Genesis</p><p>Drevkrol, 70 Defiler, Oasis, Genesis</p></blockquote> Again, let me reiterate. It is not the DR that matters with long bows. It is the high end damage mark. In this instance, RC is 390 while Grizzfoshizzle is 345 (IIRC). Parse using both and I gaurantee you the RC will come out ahead. One it procs more since it has a longer delay. Also, since it has a longer delay a fully hasted ranger will not miss as many auto-attacks as with Grizz. Parse each bow and come back here<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kala Asuras]

The +piercing damage doesn't stack up like that unfortunately.  If you've got it on your bow you get +12 (i've seen up to +18 on a raid debuffed mob) to each bow attack, CA and auto attack.  Each one on a DW will do the same but only for hits from that weapon.  Remember melee CAs use the primary hand procs/adornments.

[Prandtl]

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cahv wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I personally would go with Grizz on raids & RC for soloing.  As mentioned earlier the DR of Grizz is slightly higher than RC but Grizz also has a dmg proc instead of a stun proc.  Thatz just my 2 copper...</p><p>Cahvanon, 70 Ranger, Oasis, Genesis</p><p>Drevkrol, 70 Defiler, Oasis, Genesis</p></blockquote> Again, let me reiterate. It is not the DR that matters with long bows. It is the high end damage mark. In this instance, RC is 390 while Grizzfoshizzle is 345 (IIRC). Parse using both and I gaurantee you the RC will come out ahead. One it procs more since it has a longer delay. Also, since it has a longer delay a fully hasted ranger will not miss as many auto-attacks as with Grizz. Parse each bow and come back here<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>In addition, the ratio of the max damage to min damage for the RC is 3.5, while Grizz is 3.  The 3.5 is off the top of my head, btw. Don't hold me to it but definitely > grizz.    </p><p>What does this mean?  There was a meticulously researched post on the combat forums a while back discussing critical hit damage and how to maximize it.  What it boiled down to was that the higher the ratio of Max hit to min hit, the Higher your Crits would go for.  This is why Sarnak is superior to every other bow, and why melee'ers drool over the grinning dirk of horror.  With high crit % AA's and high ratio weapons, your damage is jsut that much higher per hit.</p><p>What does that mean for RC vs. Grizz?  It means that autoattack damage from RC can be quite a bit higher then grizz.  My buffed crits on RC have reached over 5K, while grizz never got much over 3K.  Voila - instant DPS</p><p>As Ranja said "parse each bow"     I have, and know my answer </p>

[Kala Asuras]

I wanted to point out that there are also at least 2 legendary bows from Mistmore Catacombs with a DR of 78 and a damage spread similar to Raincaller.  I think 408 was the high on the bow of marksmanship but i'd have to log in to check.  No damage proc though on either of them.

[Torrin]

Come to think of it I remember many parses the last few raids where the highest hit in a fight was Torrin Pierce 4k-5k.. so despite using Veiled Fire almost every fight which is the hardest hitter outside of Sniper Shot for a single target, my autoattacks with Raincaller hit harder on Crits than the rest of the raid's attacks / CAs etc. A little off subject but has anyone had the opportunity to compare EoF Bows with KoS Bows? Sarnak vs Bow from Mayong Bazkul vs Wind-Scared or Nature's Bow in EH I'd love to get my hands on the Wind-Scared longbow out of all of them.. just I dunno something about it makes me want it bad.

[Kala Asuras]

Now I don't have all the best bows in the game sitting in my bags, boy do I wish such was the case, but I looked a bit at the numbers and these would be my best guesses.  I would rank the bows Star Darkened Longbow > Longbow of Corruption > Sarnak > Wind-Shaped Bow > Natures Bow of the Stalker > Bazkul.  I'm pretty confident about the first 3 but not so sure about which of the new EH bows would end up on top.  Rokjin did a great analysis of how the damage spread effects your final damage output in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=191114" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">this post.</a> The damage spread on the first three is ~1:5.68 and well over the ~1:3.00 of the next three so you are gettng a much bigger return for every %ranged crit you have.  Same reason the GDoH is such a great DW weapon even though its damage rating is lower than many others out there.  The Star Darkened is just amazing despite the lack of a worthwhile proc it has a DR of 108.4 and a  top damage of 829! because of the 9 second delay.  I think everyone will agree this is the best we have seen so far.  The Longbow of Corruption has the second highest DR at 105.7, a nice proc, and like the Star Darkened some nice STR.  A good step below these two is Sarnak.  Crummy stats and no proc but it still has the damage spread of the other two and with all the ranged crit rangers have I am comfortable putting it in the 3rd spot. Now the tricky part.  Wind-Shaped has the very best stats (no power but STR, INT, and +ranged) and a really nice damage proc.  However it has a DR 4.8 lower than the Nature's Bow and no 2% crit.  I think the Wind-Shaped bow would be the better of the two bows but it is just an educated guess and I leave it to someone that can parse out the differences of the two.  Bazkul i'd leave at the bottom of this heap but you get to shoot cool skulls at things <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> which has got to count for something, right? <img src="http://i18.tinypic.com/2cwpoau.jpg" border="0"> <i>Edit to add pictures of the bows.</i>

[Prandtl]

Kala Asuras wrote: <blockquote> <img src="http://i18.tinypic.com/2cwpoau.jpg" border="0"> <i>Edit to add pictures of the bows.</i> </blockquote><p>DROOL  :p~~  </p>

[athitchcock]

Any idea where this is from? Longbow of the Grove <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/items/item_profile.vm?itemId=150619" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...m?itemId=150619</a> I think the max hit would put it ahead of sarnak.

[Kala Asuras]

Very nice, a new bow I wasn't aware of.  Not sure where it would drop but the name would make me guess EH.  I too would love more information on it.  <img src="http://i18.tinypic.com/2urlbuf.jpg" border="0"> for those like me that don't have the item database.

[Mono]

That Longbow of the Grove looks intersting. Any info? I did try PM the guy but i was unsuccessful.

[Nagous]

<cite>Torrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Come to think of it I remember many parses the last few raids where the highest hit in a fight was Torrin Pierce 4k-5k.. so despite using Veiled Fire almost every fight which is the hardest hitter outside of Sniper Shot for a single target, my autoattacks with Raincaller hit harder on Crits than the rest of the raid's attacks / CAs etc. A little off subject but has anyone had the opportunity to compare EoF Bows with KoS Bows? Sarnak vs Bow from Mayong Bazkul vs Wind-Scared or Nature's Bow in EH I'd love to get my hands on the Wind-Scared longbow out of all of them.. just I dunno something about it makes me want it bad. </blockquote>   Unfortunately for me, i never get the big hits on any fight lately. Usually it's a fusion or decap that tops the parse, but after sunday night and getting Ichorstrand first, then of all things, Bazgul drops and i get that too, my zonewide parses past couple nights went from average 1300 to average 1700dps.  Max hit with raincaller and ichorstrand ammo prior to killing Tarinax about 30 mins afterwards was 5049, max hit so far for me with Bazgul was 5816 in FTH.  When we get Direvine Matron down sometime in the next few weeks, Torrin, i'll let ya know how much i'm hitting for with the LBoC.

[Trainstri]

Raincaller does more DMG Period! Dont beleave me go get a parser.

[Skratttt]

Should not Ghostly bow >grizz AND RC???... that thing when it crits is super dmging of course i r assassin so what i know about bows

[Deterre]

This thread is almost 9 months old...But yes, Bylze > Raincaller > Grizzle

[Beldin_]

Necro folks around here ? *g* <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[FiveFootStep]

longbow of the grove is from matron

[Merkad]

Longbow of the Grove is from Galiel Spirithoof, the Black Unicorn on floor three of EH. Matron drops the Longbow of Corruption.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.