Unisex :(

[LordFyre]

<p>I am kind of bringing this issue over from the previous boards.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>But one issue that has always bothered me with EQ2 (and now Vanguard) is that, outside of social clothing, all armors have the same basic appearance for both genders.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   (A situation that does NOT exist on the marketing art.)</p><p>Some NPCs do reflect basic differences in costume, (such as the DoF human models, New Tunarian High Elves, and the Bloodline Chronicles Vampires)  This same type of consideration should be extended to player models as well.</p>

[Nahalar]

<p>Yes, it should.</p><p> Will it happen? Prolly after they revamp the models, they'll fit armor better and be able to customize armor in a broader easier fashion.</p>

[Emerix]

While i usually tend to agree with topics as this i have to ask . why should the same armor piece loko entirely different depending on the person wearing it ? After all the skirt i wear in real life doesnt look any different when a guy puts it on ((tho it would look very silly  = )   ))

[Findara]

Some things about a male piece armor would have to be changed in order for a female character to properly fit in. So it would make sense that other parts might be different, or other flairs be added.  You can still keep the same feeling and appearance of lets say cobalt, but change it to be more femiline and sexy on a female and more manly on a male character.

[LordFyre]

<p>The reason for this is two fold.</p><p>     First, while we would all like more armor variety, and I am specifically asking for different appearances for characters of different gender, I am not saying that armor drops should be limited by race and sex.  (We already get enough pieces that are not useable because no one in the group/raid meets the class/level requirements.)  So while it is less realistic, the idea that your "Cloth Armor Leg Piece" (your skirt) having a different appeance when worn by a male character is exactly what I am asking for.</p><p>     Second, as MMO players, we already accept many unrealistic conventions to make the game work better - respawning after death, mob corpses neatly disappearing when looted, swimming in heavy armor, etc. - that this idea should not be too hard to accept.  And, since the benefit would be making characters more distinctive (and, yes, sexier) I believe that it would be worth accepting another unrealistic MMO convention.</p>

[Emerix]

You may want to look out for news about the character model revamp then . when that comes out SOE will be able to put in more types of armor much more easily

[AsukaKazuma]

Pffft... don't be silly. Armor is designed to be *functional*. Clothing is designed for looks; armor is designed to <i>protect</i>. There is only so many one can change in an armor design for the sake of looks before it starts to become nonfunctional. I can accept the idea of more visually appealing cloth (and maybe leather - <i>maybe)</i> armors, but platemail and chainmail <i>needs</i> to remain functional. Besides that, we'll start getting into the discussion of whether or not the design is sexist - some of us prefer not to be *forced* into a certain look (as, yes, I do not like the idea of wearing more 'feminine' armor - I'm an adventurer and my character's looks should reflect that!). Perhaps if there is a choice in the matter it wouldn't be an issue, but I can't imagine how they could possibly do this. Unisex designs help us avoid that problem entirely. Also... why in the nine hells am I not allowed to wear a "male" suit? If I want to "cross-dress", they better let me, dammit!

[TheSleepyOne]

<cite>AsukaKazuma wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pffft... don't be silly. Armor is designed to be *functional*. Clothing is designed for looks; armor is designed to <i>protect</i>. There is only so many one can change in an armor design for the sake of looks before it starts to become nonfunctional. I can accept the idea of more visually appealing cloth (and maybe leather - <i>maybe)</i> armors, but platemail and chainmail <i>needs</i> to remain functional. Besides that, we'll start getting into the discussion of whether or not the design is sexist - some of us prefer not to be *forced* into a certain look (as, yes, I do not like the idea of wearing more 'feminine' armor - I'm an adventurer and my character's looks should reflect that!). Perhaps if there is a choice in the matter it wouldn't be an issue, but I can't imagine how they could possibly do this. Unisex designs help us avoid that problem entirely. Also... why in the nine hells am I not allowed to wear a "male" suit? If I want to "cross-dress", they better let me, dammit! </blockquote><p>Armour designs in the fantasy genre has never (or almost never) been functional. Its supposed to be unrealistic isn't it? ..hence "Fantasy".  Conan anyone? Chainmail bikinis FTW! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Hammertime]

<p>Nearly all the adds show women (and men) wearing sexy armor or gowns...but none of these exist for the players (not that I see anyway).  </p><p>I want my female warrior to wera an iron bikini!!</p><p>Realistic and practical?  No.  But neither is fighting monsters and dragons while using spells.</p>

[ironman2000]

I agree, I orginally started playing this game when they leaked the sexy white armor that showed thighs, arms and clevage on a female paladins armor.  I was so impressed by how classy it was down and how sexy it made the female form look.  Imagine my disappointment when we were all told it wasn't going to be put into the game and now to see all the armor look the same on EVERYONE.  Its extremely boring and uninspired.  I hope when the model/skeleton revamp goes through to return and find some sexier looks to female armor.  I have to admit, while the armor is not as nicely rendered (and please don't ignore that fact and start flaming), the male and female appearances in world of warcraft, on character look different with the female characters showing a little more skin, bare bellies, thighs, arms and heaven forbid, clevage.  So once my game time has run its course i'm back to wow till they fix this problem and yes, for me, its one of the larger issues in the game, along with not being able to colorize your own armor (and again don't flame) because there is no better way to make your armor feel like it is your armor then to let you set the color as long as its not offensive and of a basic color scheme (no hot neon colors).  I also find it amazing that since EQ II wants to draw the core audience away from WoW, they haven't made this change already.  What better way to get teenage boys to come play EQ II then to show more skin on the female characters and throw in a few sexier dances while you're at it.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Elysa]

<cite>AsukaKazuma wrote:</cite><blockquote>Besides that, we'll start getting into the discussion of whether or not the design is sexist - some of us prefer not to be *forced* into a certain look (as, yes, I do not like the idea of wearing more 'feminine' armor - I'm an adventurer and my character's looks should reflect that!). Perhaps if there is a choice in the matter it wouldn't be an issue, but I can't imagine how they could possibly do this. Unisex designs help us avoid that problem entirely. </blockquote> So you mean it's ok for you to have what you want and not be forced to wear atractive feminine looking armor, but it's perfectly ok for those of us who want to wear atractive feninine looking armor to wear what amounts to mens cloths with breasts and a smaller waist, it's just as bad forcing one was as it is the other, and staticticaly speaking they would have a lot more subcribers were more atractive stylized armors (both for women and men) than trying to pawn for realistic armor in a fantasy game, once my friends quit EQ2 I did as well, it's a good game and all but the armors are so horible in the game that without having my friends to play with even having such good gameplay I simply have no desire to continue playing a game where I do not like how my character looks at all.

[LordFyre]

<cite>TheSleepyOne wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Armour designs in the fantasy genre has never (or almost never) been functional. Its supposed to be unrealistic isn't it? ..hence "Fantasy".  Conan anyone? Chainmail bikinis FTW! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote><p>True, but this is what I think players like AsukaKazuma are concerned about - being exploited for someone else's entertainment.  </p><p>Actually, I wasn't asking for something so extreme (at least not in this thread <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  "Attractive" and "Feminine" does not have to mean exploitive (and to some, degrading) forcing female avatars to show lots of cleavage and leg.  </p><p>(Note, I personally don't understand why that would be seen as degrading, but I have seen enough complaints that it does from players to know that many do feel that way.)</p>

[initoci]

I think that it is kinda low to have teenage boys come to a game because it makes them more frisky than another.

[AsukaKazuma]

It's really difficult to say for certain whether it would be for the better or not to have, some would say, more 'shallow' players entering the game simply because of the attractive avatars. I don't mean to sound overly judgemental, but the tone of your post tells me that you prefer games simply for the graphics, and not the gameplay. <hr />"Armour designs in the fantasy genre has never (or almost never) been functional."<hr /> I beg to differ; armor designs in D&D games have almost universally been completely functional, yet still have an attractive appeal about them without going to unrealistic extremes to show skin. I don't care what anybody says; more skin does NOT = attractive! Maybe to weak minds subject to the thought that nudity = sex it would be, but honestly, that's not the issue here. The issue is that the armor designs, frankly, <i>suck</i>, more often than not. The 'femininity' of it wouldn't even be an issue if the armor were just more visually appealing. For example, why is it that almost every single set of armor in the game is almost singularly one color (with the possible exception of fulginate)? There would be no reason to complain if the visual attractiveness were simply upped a notch (and the clown colors tossed by the wayside - <i>please, no more pink platemail!</i>). And if you absolutely <i>need</i> to show skin, I can't imagine why they couldn't simply stick in some more social clothing in the game. Heck, even put in an option to display that clothing instead of your armor while you're adventuring - I can keep my functional, full suit of platemail and you can run around half-naked if you want to. Everybody wins!

[Laomie]

<p>Bah , funtional smunctional , I agree the armor needs a revamp. I would love to see armor to have a different look based on race , why would trolls , woodelves or dark elves etc  make their armor exactly the same in look? do they all shop at the local J.C. shmitty's ?  and ffs bring back assless chaps! it was so cool in eq1 darkelves (female of course)  with the assless armor lol, cracked me up.</p>

[LordFyre]

<p>Just to clarify some things:   <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><ul><li><b>Sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the gander.</b>  Much of the talk about adding "sexier" armors tends to revolve around female avatars.  Making armors that are more "attractive and feminine" should be paralleled with armors that are more "handsome and masculine" </li><li><b>Skin does not equal sex appeal.</b>  . . . At least not in itself.  Adding more style and "coolness" to the different armors in the game would go much to make the game (specifically our characters) more enjoyable to look at.  If SOE does go for adding "sexier" armor looks, I do hope that they do so with an eye to taste and panache.  (Also, as might be pointed out, what would look "hot" on a human, elven, or fae woman would look kind of silly on a female Iksar, Troll, or Froglok.  The current social dresses in game have this problem.) </li><li><b>No one should be forced to be "my" entertainment.</b>  This goes to the issue of choice that AsukaKazuma brought up.  A related issue is that female warrior in an armored bikini will also evoke a very different social reaction then one dressed on functional looking Vanguard plate (and the number of rude jerks out there is appalling  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  This is really about making the character more "attractive" to the eyes of the owning player, so players need to have more freedom to decide what they want to look like, and what they are willing to put up with.</li></ul><p>(Yes, long time posters may remember, that I have advocated "bikini-type" armors.  I now have much more understanding of how controversial that is though.)</p><p>(edited for spelling)</p>

[1Dagger]

<p>I guess we can agree that having cross gender armour works so far. But I would like to add that having seperate armour for males and females, along with the armour we have now would add to the diversity of eq2.  I'm not saying I want a bunch of "Red Sonyas" and "Conans" running around wearing battle harnesses. It would be nice to just have the option to do so.</p><p>erain darkblood, warlock of Kithicor </p>

[Cragger]

Unforunately for us it has actual less to do with wanting armor to look realistic or function. Which btw none of the armor in EQ2 would be even close to functional and would still fit only in the ceromonial category as its far to skin tight (armor had to be loose and yet stiff in the right places to deflect blows away and to have room for the padding beneath to absorb the energy of a direct blow.) What it really has more to do with is that as the detail and closer to real life the graphics and imagery gets the amount of work, rework, and postwork that goes into anything exponentially increases. It is far more cost effective to design things that can work in a myriad of characters and models then have to custom tailor each. Unfortunately this does lead to a rather bland and boring look. Which is a big negative for many in a fantasy game because they play the game partly to attain some uniqueness and individuality versus the doldrum of real life. There is also another phenomenon that is actually under fairly intense study in both academic and entertainment circles. The closer we can create a virtual reality to reality the more that imperfections, inscruitines and improper details we notice. The working theory is that when something is purely fantasy and improbable to our mind we ignore or overlook these things as we know it to be not true (This is all in terms of image our minds perceive and not our conscious mind.). But as we come close to what could be real our minds quickly pick up on all the little details which don't fit to what should be right and we reject them. In effect the closer we come to perfection that harder it is to attain perfection and the more critical we become. Something ancient sculptors seemed to have refined to knowing how real life to make an object. Oh and as a small thing to hang out for all those wanting realistic and fuctional armor. It really doesn't matter how realistic and armor or shield or whatever is, its still all fantasy to be able to withstand the force of a giants foot, a magical blast, or dragons slashing claw. Sometimes reality hurts the fantasy more then it helps, and in fantasy rpgs all armor is fantasy no matter how it looks in its ability to actually protect the wearer against fantasy perils.

[AsukaKazuma]

<cite>Cragger wrote:</cite><blockquote>"But as we come close to what could be real our minds quickly pick up on all the little details which don't fit to what should be right and we reject them." "Sometimes reality hurts the fantasy more then it helps, and in fantasy rpgs all armor is fantasy no matter how it looks in its ability to actually protect the wearer against fantasy perils." </blockquote>This, actually, was mainly meant to apply specifically to human beings, and NOT inanimate objects. Inanimate objects are much easier to recreate than human beings - they tend not to have to contend with the 'uncanny valley' as much as human beings do, due to very specific and subtle areas that tell us that a human being is not real, whereas with inanimate objects, there is a much greater variety of materials in the world to work with, so it could very well easily end up looking plastic-like an' that's what it'll look like in our minds - like plastic, but <i>not</i> necessarily 'unrealistic'. In fact, I think it's silly to bring this argument up on the subject of clothing and armor looks - we've had stiff-looking clothing an' armor in our games for a long time now, and when it's done right, do we ever really even complain about that? Complaints in the "uncanny valley" are usually leveled at the unrealistically doll-like skin textures, and not the 'perfection' or 'non-perfection' of the clothing or environment textures or what-have-you. I can't even imagine how it can apply to armor and clothing; so, the 'less realistic' it is, the better, simply because our mind's eye would know it as unrealistic as compared to 'more realistic' armors? I don't think so; I would think it's much, much worse to simply cop out on armor and clothing and create completely stupid and unrealistic looks just because of the potential of falling into the 'uncanny valley' (which, again, should not even apply to inanimate objects in the first place). It is our skin, our faces that come under the most scrutiny when it comes to the realism of graphics, not the non-living things surrounding them.

[Cragger]

Simple, in the way it moves, flexes, and conforms to the body. Clothing and armor is inanimate until it is animated by us wearing it. And seeing as most of us wear clothing continously... I said most... we are very innately tuned to it.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I was a bit disappointed with the armour graphics in this game when I first saw it. Then I installed DDO which was a step backwards, and even later I installed Vanguard and was appalled to see an even <i>further </i>and huge<i> </i>step backwards (I honestly didnt think it was actually possible to get worse than DDO). Have you seen the state of the horses in Vanguard? I think a pantomime horse looks better. </p><p>Currently EQ2 doesnt have just better looking characters - it has characters that are <i>exponentially </i>better than anything currently around, even in solo games from what I see.</p><p>I guess I was spoiled by EQ2 being my first MMO. What has happened to the technology? Its slipping further and further backwards instead of forwards!</p><p>If EQ2 improve their toon graphics even more I think they should rightfully put it on the box that it has "ultra-realistic toons" as a feature. If it has to compete with the truly woeful toon graphics in VG then it has no competition.</p><p>IMO, how your toon looks is one of the core features of the game. </p>

[Valsehna]

<p>In regards to the "social" clothing, I remain too mortified at the appalling appearance of the female versions to want to wear them. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Slit up to the top of the thigh on both legs, plus the bare-footed indignity..ugh, it is just sad.</p><p>Also revolting is the "high-end" status female formal wear one can get at certain guild levels.  The white with gold trim version at least comes close to ok, but the bluish thing at the higher level...that looks exactly like a circus performer outfit.  It looks like one of those little outfits the girls that ride the trick ponies wear. Ugh, ugh, ugh!</p><p>Two other things that continue to bother me about our character models are the bad looking hair (play-dough extrusion look), and the other is something to do with the way the eyes look.</p><p>Or maybe I should phrase that as the way the eyes "don't look". Literally the eyes do not appear to be looking or focusing, they are just there.  It seems to give all of the faces a strange mannequin-like look to them.  Totally blank looking faces.  Anyone else ever notice that?</p>

[Anski]

While I personally wouldn't mind "more revealing armor", I don't <i>need</i> to see it in-game, either. I remember the female paladin model from before the game was released. It did look good. But to me (and maybe this is some weird fetish) I find women in full armor pretty attractive. LOL I figure my infatuation with it started many many years ago with <a href="http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5773/samusesyi8.png" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Samus Aran</a>... Anyway, what I'd like to see even more than "revealing armor" is more stylized armor. I think can be just as eye-pleasing and doesn't run the risk of "I don't want my female characters to look like a sex object!" (sorry if this gets double posted... forum issues right when I decide to post heh)

[Hammertime]

<p>My girlfriend wants to start playing the game, but is more concerned about how her character will look then how funtional it is.  </p><p>She doesn't need the "revealing" armor, but something that looks stylish to her.  She watches the preview (video) before the game and says "Yea, like that" when it shows the two female mages.  However, I do not think the exist.  She wants to be a mage, but hates the "robe look".  Is this her only option?  Should she look at being something else?  Any ideas?</p>

[Nwonknu]

<p>It is odd how when  monk throw on a certain tunic, instantly the pants, boots, sleeves, etc, all change to that same white look, even though the monk still has on the darker armor.</p><p> So, if sony will do things like that, (it is MAGIC ahh!) then why can't they also let women look like women, and men look like men?</p><p> And, as to you needing to show skin to look sexy, I do not agree.  I often find women in tight looking, wel dsigned clothes look nicer than many of the lesser clothes outfits.</p><p> One example are victoria secret underclothes.  I would rather see a lady in that than nothing on.  it adds to the sexuality and mystique!</p><p> I woudl like to see more stomach's showing on women in EQ2, and men if they want it, heck, make some armor available depending on type and class. </p><p>And for God's sakes, PLEASE let Mage classes have some nice non robes outfits!!</p><p>Nwonknu</p>

[AsukaKazuma]

Hmph. I guess I'm extremely wierd, then. One of the reasons I picked Iksar as my race was because of the appeal of the androgynistic appearance of the female model. Is it such a crime that I would rather not have the game obsess itself over sexual differentiation (which people do enough of in "real-life", frankly), and would prefer that functional armors remain functional on both genders? Should I be more concerned about expressing my 'femininity' in a game that, frankly, I play to escape the rigors and irritations of day-to-day living? (If you're wondering why I'm ranting about this, this <hr />"..why can't they also let women look like women, and men look like men?" <hr /> ...is why.) I simply cannot understand the whole obsession with sexual differentiation. Is it really such a bad thing for both genders to share some common ground when it comes to their armor protection? I would hope so, otherwise we would have problems with one gender being superior to the other in actual combat! Let's not have it go there, please... Like I said before, if it *must* be done, it should be a stylistic change for the armors that are actually designed to *protect* (leather, chain, platemail), whereas cloth armor, as far as I'm concerned, can be as revealing or non-revealing as they want to make it. It's just cloth; it doesn't provide any protection to speak of in the first place. However, if it's revealing, it should be the case for <i>both</i> genders, and not a one-sided thing. Hey, sometimes it's nice to see guys show a little skin, too, y'know.

[Shard-Wo]

<p>I've got no problem with more 'sexy' armor...if I don't have to wear it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Okay, yeah, yeah, so I'm a roleplayer. My character wouldn't be caught dead in any of the casual female clothing currently in the game, let alone the guild level 30 piece. Poofy sleeves and skirts and what? She STABS and SHOOTS people for a living. She generally has to go wading through knee deep muck. Skirts and poofy sleeves and leather bikinis are for other women, not her. It was embarassing enough just wearing the 'boobplate' that is xegonite chain armor. XD</p><p>But hey, if other people want stuff like that, sure. Just don't make me wear it, that's all I ask. I've still got nightmares of the full plate + leather bra look I had in EQ1 for so long.</p>

[Chay]

Everyone and everything looks the same. I was in the bank and thought I was looking at me but it was another player. She looked identical to me. As a female I want to look good. FOR ME. I don't care if the armor is practical or functional. It's clunky, dull, and uninspired. Style means a lot to me (and probably others). I got this tunic last night on my ranger and though it doesn't really have better stats than my feysteel piece it looks different and it looks feminine. No annoying flaps. (sorry its dark and big) <img src="http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/chaynawolfsmoon/EQ2_000141.jpg" border="0">

[KudLenka]

<p>hey, whats up with all the political corectness fuss? I mean - you go on a street and you meet people in different clothes... does it really endanger  a kid to see a nice lady in a top with generous neckline? Or in a short skirt? I seriously doubt that. Oh and what about these sick men in shorts and gym shirts!</p><p>As for more choices in the game's armor and clothes departement, i can not see this s a problem. I dont think that anyone wants to get rid of the funtional armors we have now - people only want more diversity and stuff to chose from. So anyone putting on a more sexy gear will do it as his/her personal choice. So what is the problem really?</p>

[AsukaKazuma]

The problem is figuring out a way to do so without forcing those who do not want such things to wear them when going for the stats. Perhaps an appearance preview would help, or better icons to show how the item *actually* looks before buying it? Sure would help a lot, as most of the icons currently in-game are very misleading and inaccurate. Also, I really don't [Removed for Content]' care about the children. This is a T-rated game, political correctness doesn't even factor into it. I just don't wanna be wearing armor that doesn't look like it [Removed for Content]' protects. I would <i><u>love</u></i> armor with more style and visual appeal, however.

[KudLenka]

<cite>AsukaKazuma wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem is figuring out a way to do so without forcing those who do not want such things to wear them when going for the stats. Perhaps an appearance preview would help, or better icons to show how the item *actually* looks before buying it? Sure would help a lot, as most of the icons currently in-game are very misleading and inaccurate. Also, I really don't [Removed for Content]' care about the children. This is a T-rated game, political correctness doesn't even factor into it. I just don't wanna be wearing armor that doesn't look like it [Removed for Content]' protects. I would <i><u>love</u></i> armor with more style and visual appeal, however. </blockquote><p> Well, for the first part - if you are after stats, its your choice and you have to deal with it same way people are now dealing with their mismatched pieces of fabled right now. And they are getting it much harder - they dont look sexy, they look like clowns, thats a shame as they had to prove their dedication to acquire such powerfull items. So really, nobody would force you to wear anything except your own need for uberness. For myself, as i stated previously, i used a lot a lvl20 robe on a lvl 40+ toon to make it look better.</p><p>As for the preview feature - i am in. i mean it. its so sad when youpay for an item which looks so bad you want to throw it away regardless to its cost or stats. Like the new mastercrafted gear on my fury... instead like in fine leather gear made of preciou pelts she looks like stupid sheep in that wowen garb</p>

[Noaani]

<cite>TheSleepyOne wrote:</cite><blockquote>Chainmail bikinis FTW! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>QFE!</p><p>No fantasy role playing game is 'complete' until they have chainmail bikinis. </p>

[Chay]

Or even a leather bikini... Or robes that don't look bulky (I'm starting to get a complex about my backside every time I'm on a carpet). To me a robe isn't suppose to look protective. If I'm wearing a robe I'm a caster and as such justify "skimpy" because its magical and therefore I'm protected... Though saying that and falling after getting hit twice as is sort of makes any conversation of protection moot. I still say there should be cultural styles as well. Elves would have their own sense of what looks good, humans another, and trolls... well they are esthetically challenged... From the looks of things everything has a human look and feel.

[LordFyre]

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSleepyOne wrote:</cite><blockquote>Chainmail bikinis FTW! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>QFE!</p><p>No fantasy role playing game is 'complete' until they have chainmail bikinis. </p></blockquote><p>Actually, yes and no.</p><p>Yes, there are lots of players - many of the women - who want to a more sexy and revealing look for their character's armor.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>However, there are also lots of players - many of them men - who don't want feel that this would be appropriate.  (for a number of reasons: modesty, immersion, or even their personal sense of style.)  So what would be more fun for you (and admittedly me) would actually make the game less fun for them.</p><p>Add to that . . . </p><ul><li>Many players also feel (justifiably in too many cases) that this would cause them to receive unwanted attention of the wrong kind.  Sadly, far too many immature male players will behave very badly when they see a hot, scantily clad woman (I learned this the hard way. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).  While the player may have no problem, personally, with having her (or his) female character running arround in a chainmail bikini, the kind and amount of harassment "she" will suffer may make the player reconsider.</li><li>Also, there is a legitimate concern that if SOE were to put these kinds of gear into the game, would they do so with a good sense of style?  Done well it would add to the beauty of the game, but done poorly . . . </li><li>Would it be one sided?  Often when this kind of "look" is put into a game, it is often only applied to female characters.  While most developers and players are still male, women are a sizable minority in the MMO community.</li><li>Cloth, leather, chain etc?  Some posters have said that they would be fine with these only being for cloth wearers.  I disagree.  A player's desire to have her/his character look "hot" should not be limiting to her class options.</li><li>Finally, as has been brought up elsewhere, would these new items have better or worse "stats" then comperable items.  I would hope not!  Again this should not be a limiting factor on character choices.  I no more would want someone forced into a bikini due to uber (in game) stats then to have these items be inferior (thus discouraging their use).</li></ul><p>Actually, one good idea I have seen (similar to the way Monk/Bruser armor works now) is to implement any "new" looks with a "charm" item (with tier appropriate stats & hopefully player cafted) that would modify the existing armor to a more "revealing" look.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Chay]

Bit of a soap box on this... skip over if you like... I think we spend way too much time worrying about who we might offend than offering the opportunity to be open. It OFFENDS me that we dumb things down and take the path of being politically correct, no one worries about that though. I just think political correctness is often veiled hypocrisy and the whole blame someone else attitude we have in the US. Take responsibility. The game is intrinsically violent yet we have no problem with that. We marginalize it, package it, and glorify it. But oh no hide cover your eyes if you see a little of the female form. Modesty is always the viewer's issue not the viewed. Modesty is because we are uncomfortable with ourselves and we end up projecting that on someone else. I just don't get it. I'll buy the "its not technically possible" argument that they can't make better looking clothes. But to not include such items because they are worried about offending someone is just not a good argument. The whole swine lord loin clothe comes to mind. Now they have them wearing bicycle shorts and they look foolish. I suppose it could be worse, THEY could be the ones in the chainmail bikinis... <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Laomie]

<p>I agree Chayna , I think it is technically possible ( see dark elf female arses hanging out of leather chaps in eq1 ), this is sony here, if game like RF online can do it so can they. I dont know if it is just lazyness or what but they need to do something to keep their player base as well as raising the lvl cap and aa's.</p><p>I just dont understand them sometimes.</p>

[AsukaKazuma]

I don't think it's fair to characterize one half of the human race as wanting one thing and the other half as wanting another (males vs females). That's just completely, wildly inaccurate and unfair. There are those who want to wear skimpy clothing and those who don't. It has very little to do with gender and more to do with personal inhibitions and tastes. If someone wants to run around half-naked, all the power to 'em. Give 'em the choice. Just give me the choice to wear actual armor, and I'll be happy. (Not this pink and yellow crap we've got handed to us, either.) Give us style, please! Hire new artists if you have to, because, honestly, this is one of the primary things that keeps me from enjoying the game as much as I can. I don't even have an incentive to run to level 70 anymore, with the way things are now.

[Jathal]

<p>To give choice to players on the sexy/functional front, the Devs can add checkboxes in Options</p><ol><li>[] Allow revealing attire rendered on myself</li><li>[] Render revealing attire where allowed</li></ol><p>This way you get to control how players see you and how you see others, even being seen in functional gear while seeing others in sexy gear if they chose to allow it. Then of course items would need 2 models each unless they create a "sexy look outfit" for each armor type/class/gender, kinda like the monk gi.</p>

[PsiaMeese]

I recall when the last group of casual clothing was released, that you could buy one outfit and it worked on either gender.  I wanted a certain color dress for one of my female toons.  The color that I preferred was only available on one of the male outfits (with pants and shirt). Of course, we are only talking about being off by a few shades of color. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But I knew what was pleasing to me.  So I purchased the male outfit, placed it on my female toon. Voila!  I had the dress in the color I wanted.  <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> An armor revamp is likely a more elaborate process to complete, though I would be in support of it.

[bluehornet6]

<p>As far as functionality of armor in a fantasy game I myself am pretty open minded. Just by looking at the art used for the original Everquest, you could see that the genre doesnt exist purely on the basis of reality. </p><p><a href="http://www.larryelmore.com/images/everquest/EQ%202nd%20Dragons%20of%20Norrath.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.larryelmore.com/images/e...f%20Norrath.jpg</a></p><p><a href="http://www.larryelmore.com/images/everquest/EQ%201st%20Omens%20of%20War.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.larryelmore.com/images/e...%20of%20War.jpg</a></p><p> Look at any of the works of Keith Parkinson also to see the way characters are portrayed. And if you raise your eyes up slightly to the top of the forum you can see the female characters portrayed by SOE. If your a stickler for reality they should be dead for not being covered enough.</p><p> I understand there are some people that want to be lvl 60+ and in tin cans but that shouldnt be the only option. There just needs to be a stronger effort by SOE to very their designs of higher level armor.</p><p>I would totally love alternate slots for armor for appearance. It wuld make matching items a hell of a lot easier while not losing stats.</p>

[LordFyre]

<cite>bluehornet632 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Look at any of the works of Keith Parkinson also to see the way characters are portrayed. And if you raise your eyes up slightly to the top of the forum you can see the female characters portrayed by SOE. If your a stickler for reality they should be dead for not being covered enough. </blockquote><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sand">Not necessarily.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sand">Consider the sword wielding Queen Antonia, that demon she is fighting likely hits so hard as to make even thick platemail armor meaningless.  Rather, it could be argued that it would be a hindrance as it would be both heavy and restricting enough to make it difficult to dodge such mighty blows.  The same could be said for the strikes of other powerful creatures like Giants, Dragons, Centaurs or even Ogres.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sand">Likewise, would the attacks that the wood elven woman fighting the spectre type creature be stopped by physical plate?  Or, being primarly etherial, would they ignore such a barrier?  Again, avoiding would be her best defense, so the weight of the armor would be a hindrance to her.  (Love her long flowing hair too.  <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  - but that is a different subject.)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS">Actually, I completely agree with your points, but I do not - nor have I ever - accept the idea that armor in a Fantasy MMO should be realistic.  It rarely ever is - else swimming and even resting in armor should be nearly impossible.</span></p>

[NemaLVey]

<p>Since we are on a rant... here are my views.</p><p>I think armor appearance and colors should be alterable due to race, alignment, class, and sex.  Females in all games and in real life have more a flair fin thier looks.   Am I saying let us have bikini chain mail? No freaking way.  Give the females toons more style and flair in comparrison to the male designed armor already out there.  Something other than the already universal look.  </p><p>Sure they give us litterally skin-tight chain/leather chest plates ( which really irks that crap out of me btw), but that should not be the only thing to express and/or show the differences between sexes. Actual molded armor isnt that detailed in that area.  Seriously take a look at a girl wearing a plain t-shirt.  It doesn't cling to her chest following all the curves! Honestly there are other things that can be enchanced or emphasised on besides focusing on the bust of a character for women, without having to show large amounts of skin in the process.  Some skin?  Perhaps, but tastfully done.  The design and over all texture in some cases can be redone, to show that an assassin female toon is armored and deadly, but will look great as a female killing someone and in very little ways look like the guy assassin she is with.  Make sense?</p><p>Colors for one.  Really should have a lock set acceptable depending on alignment, class, armor piece and sex.  Allowing only female toons access to lighter hues.  No pinks or extremely light colors for male toons.  The thought of seeing a multi-colored, light-hued,  flourecent troll/ogre in armor gives me bad dreams.  I know it has been said before that it is impossible to allow dyes into this game cuz of the coding.  Change the coding or litterally work around or over it.  I know, I can dream.</p><p>Robes.  Ummm.  Enuff with the cut, color, and pasting of the robes.  I pretty much never made a caster character cuz of the horrid design of the robes.  I am sorry but you guys need to back off the showing of legs between a flap of cloth.  Casters in general were weak looking muscularly cuz they relied on magic more than brawn, who wants to see bow-legged toothpick legs?  A longer train on robes for female chars would be nice change.  Flaired sleeves at the end, maybe.  Maybe add in sections of ridgid looking armor on forearms, shoulders, and other places on robes, to show some reason for Armor class upgrading between tiers for both sexes.  There isnt much difference between a lvl 1 cloth armor to a lvl 70 besides color and design on the robe.</p><p>Add-ons.  Like adorments added to pieces of armor.  Make spikes, fins, flairs, or whatnot that can be added to certain pieces to create visual individuality if you cannot make multi-sets for classes, and sexes.  Basically make an overlay that can be seen over/under existing armor pieces.  Heck, add different design skins to overlay.</p><p>This game has so many possiblities, and blamming the coding for not implementing things is getting LAME.  Get creative.  Take a good look at City of Heroes character creation if lacking ideas.</p><p>Sorry, this probably doesnt make much sense.  I am still waking up.  </p><p>/rant off</p>

[TwistedPisky]

I think we should have a choice. An option we can select to wear more exotic outfit.

[Alycs]

Star Wars Galaxies. That being said...the crafters could control the colors.  And the array of clothes was large.  Same with the colors.  And that was for the ARMOR too! Flat out...one of my characters would much rather wear trousers than the dresses they get.  She'd also rather the MALE formal ensemble than the female one.  I'm sorry...on an orange haired halfling..the teals and blues look sick...add in...you get the OBVIOUS white panties!  Who want's that?  Not me. Now, I'm female irl.  I know guys who are stylish and straight.  One of them [Removed for Content] about his armor in the game.  With good reason.  A Barbarian SK(I think he's an sk) in powder blue armor???? WHO will take him seriously?!?  First time I saw that....I just about laughed my butt off. lol I know at one of the last dev interviews, they said no dyes.  But...we need to be able to customize our armor.  If it's a case of having to model each piece on every type of char...then there's something wrong with the engine.  /shrug  Granted, I started with SOE with SWG back long before it got screwed up.