Paladin's and thoughts

[Sisaro187]

I have a paladin and yes im T5 or higher.   I just wanted to say i also have a high lvl assasin, and necro and mystic, as well as a moderatly high guardian.   I think people have no reason to complain about our class at all. of course besides the ocasional bug.  We do what we were designed to do very well.  We can tank, off heal and do damage, not tier one raid damage but A) we cant have everything. B) thats not our jobs.

[Inoran]

What is our job according to you? i'm curious, hehe

[equinoxio]

<cite>Sisaro187 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a paladin and yes im T5 or higher.   I just wanted to say i also have a high lvl assasin, and necro and mystic, as well as a moderatly high guardian.   I think people have no reason to complain about our class at all. of course besides the ocasional bug.  We do what we were designed to do very well.  We can tank, off heal and do damage, not tier one raid damage but A) we cant have everything. B) thats not our jobs.</blockquote><p> Your saying Paladins are ok in your eyes? but hey it's ok because your T5 and not a raiding paladin, like some of us who are complaining about the T7 raiding content.</p><p> Paladins are a great class, but we need help to improve some stuff, when you get divine favor, at least you will know what is the worst spell in all the game, and that isnt a fluff spell... that's suppose to be one of the ancient spells.</p>

[Sisaro187]

Our job is to be a tank that has utilities.

[Rast]

<cite>Sisaro187 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Our job is to be a tank that has utilities.</blockquote><p> I'll let the raiders rip you apart <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>but I'll let you in on a key point, you have to be able to tank before it matters in your role.</p>

[Heeehahaha]

I'm glad we have T5 paladins around to tell us the class is fine.  If it weren't for all the Daily Affirmations with Noob Pally threads that pop up every other day, I could never feel good about my class.  Thank you Mr. T5 paladin for sharing your meaningful opinions with us.

[therodge]

<p>to the op and everyone else in here i wanna see if anyone will disagree with this statement</p><p> paladins are a great class as long as you dont plan on being MT for the highest of high end content</p><p>i dont think anyone will argue that.</p>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>to the op and everyone else in here i wanna see if anyone will disagree with this statement</p><p> paladins are a great class as long as you dont plan on being MT for the highest of high end content</p><p>i dont think anyone will argue that.</p></blockquote> I belive that is correct yes.. Luckily I dont plan on being MT for any high high raid content, so Im pretty much content with the tools I have at my disposal.. of course.. nice gear and adornments(on mt/dps/heal sets) help alot.. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Levatino]

can't say anything about raiding cause I don't raid but as a solo class the paladin is very good maybe not the best but it does the job

[Ogrepalad]

<p>I play in a guild with a paladin MT. We raid T7 content--but we are not uber high end--we are not yet doing the eof x 4 raids, and we are gearing up a guardian to help with that. (Our paladin also does not have the uber eof gear).</p><p> Paladins CAN tank. They do tank. The sooner you stop wringing your hands over how broken your class is, and start being all you can be, the more effective you will be.</p>

[therodge]

if my post came off as complaining it wasent supposed to, paladins are an awsome class their are a couple whiners on these boards that happened to pick the wrong class for what they want to do, but if you plan on grouping and soloing alot you got a helluva good choice right here.

[Rast]

<p>I know for the most part I am happy with my Pally, but then I have not raided much.  As I understand it, most of the compaints are issues that our damage absorbsion just doesn't scale into the raid teirs well (or at all).</p><p>Think about it, what is a 1300pt ward when a guard can absorb an unlimited amount for something like 3 hits?</p>

[Kocia]

<p>Roll a guardian.  XP is easy, you can get your guild to PL you in no time if they desperately need a raid MT.</p><p>Paladins are fine.</p>

[Kaleyen]

I can't comment on anything because I think the OP meant this as a joke right?  I mean a T5 non-raiding Paladin telling us T7 raiders that our class is awesome and all.

[RaistNA]

<p>lol this thread is full of raging idiots.</p><p>Dont come in here telling us paladins are fine.  </p><p>OMG OMG OMG GUYS I TANKED A_LARGE_RAT_01 !!!  IM LEET GUYS PALADINS ARE AWSOME</p><p> Im going to list a series of zones, if you have not been in any, and have not tried to tank any, ur oppinion is worth about as much to the high end raiding paladins as a person with downsyndrom is useful in a nuclear sience plant</p><p>Chel'drak, Matron, Orange mobs in MIS, Treyloth in FTH, Tender + in EH.</p><p>Untill you get there, you have no idea how lacking our class is.  Are we great on a heroic level, yes.  But those same utilitys that make us great on a heroic level are what kill us on a raid level.  Why?  Amends is my biggest pet peev.  Yea amends is great on a heroic level where your only 1 group.  But on a raid?  to make amends useful you have to be in a dps group, which usually leaves you with only 1 healer, u aint tanking sh¡t with one healer if the mob is at all hard...you know...the hard content....the stuff NONE of you 'omg pallys are leet' are going to see.  So stop being worthless, go level up and go do something outside of AoA x2 and labs trash run thinking ur leet, do something hard and come back and post your thoughts.</p>

[Rast]

<p>Raist, when and if I ever get the chance to, I'll be sure to comment <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>That being said, I'm one who believes what he is told that raid pallies need something more, so no need to jump down everyone's throat bud <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[DVang]

Actually, I see problems with MT'ing as early as I am at 58.   Even with Adept 3 (or better) taunts I cannot keep aggro.  For example, if I group with more than 1 dps class, whichever does not have my Amends on them will invariably gain aggro from me.  Even with them using their own ability to give me hate (those that have it) and even with them being a couple levels below me they still take aggro quite often.  I use all my taunts as quickly as I can, including the shield bash and the Sigil when necessary, but still lose aggro quite often.  Of course, I levelled mostly pre-AA implementation/purchase so I'm behind on AA points.  I originally wanted to spec into the +STA line, but since about lvl 55 I've been losing aggro much more often and finally re-spec'd STR for the hate gain.  I haven't maxed it yet, but I'm hoping once I do I'll be able to keep aggro better.

[txleathertx]

<cite>Inoran wrote:</cite><blockquote>What is our job according to you? i'm curious, hehe </blockquote><p> The Pally world according to a crazy Texan...</p><p> I just joined a new raid guild...this one goes deeper into zones than my past guilds...tonight was my first raid with them and Halls of Seeing was an awesome experince. I really didn't have any clue what I would do with this guild and I'm the only Pally in raid so I have to show them why they wanna keep an old gimpy pally around. Okay so I'm not an MT raid tank...I used to care, but tonight it dawned on me that raiding was a team event and requires that each and every class perform their duties the best way they know now. So I don't have manaburn and lifeburn and can't dps that well...oh well. So I'm not a healer and can't parse at the top of hps...oh well...my dps ranged tonight from 900-400 dps depending on stances and what we were fighting...my hps was in the 200 range and sometimes was non-existant. I rezzed a few folks...a healer, a couple coercers...main tank...they were able to get up...use hearts, shards, etc...buff and be back in the fight. I helped tank Bloodbeast through 33% of his life...I stood back and healed, some of those heals being Cele. Touch and saving a wipeout...plus as an added bonus I removed a few buffs on major mobs...I don't remember the one off Bloodbeast, but Dark Caress and Draw Strength was removed from Venekor. So we don't have one job like all other classes...we're not straight dps, we're not healers, we are pallys. I've said it once and I'll say it again, we are the hero class, we do everything. After all was said and done, I wound up in the middle of the dps charts, middle of the hps charts, and called home to Qeynos with several pats on the back and "atta boys" for a job well done...even comments were made about how much better it was to have a pally in raid. So my dear pally pals, 3 words for you...3 of the wisest words ever spoken to me...</p><p> Adapt and Overcome.</p>

[RaistNA]

Ok your point?  i was tanking bloodbeast when i was still in mostly legendary gear.  HoS isnt a hard zone, it doesnt take much to tank it, its more if ur healers and dps pay attention and dont stand around on mem wipe and let raid get AE'd.  Im talkin about the mobs that in full defensive, full fabled, are going to be smacking you for 6k+ auto attack damage, and ur going to have dps doing 5k+ to the mob.  Then tell me you can adapt and overcome and manage to tank that and keep agro if ur MT dies.  And cele. touch, i use that all the time too, its a great ability and i love it, i save long fights nightly with it.  What i complain about and get [Removed for Content] off about is the fact myself and a few other paladins...the ones who are actually doing these hard encounters, and knows what im talking about, come here and try to explain what is wrong with our class ON A RAID level.  But then we come here daily to see omg leet t5 paladins and omg leet raiding paladins who are happy to get to see vyemm in a nights run saying 'o no we are fine, yall just need to learn how to play ur class different.' Again i challenge you, go do that same heroic pickup tanking and saving the raid in our current state against a mob thatll be auto attacking u for 6k+ and AEing you up close for 10k+.

[Vulkan_NTooki]

Out of curiosity.. how much dmg does the said mob do to the guardian/zerker that tanks it?

[Kaleyen]

<cite>Vulkan_NTooki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Out of curiosity.. how much dmg does the said mob do to the guardian/zerker that tanks it?</blockquote> Not as much <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And to the guy that tanked Bloodbeast for 33%...grats on beginning the painful process of Paladin T7 raiding woe's.  Until you fully tank at least DT and are raiding in EoH zones you won't feel as the rest of us do.

[txleathertx]

I read both the SK boards and the Pally boards...and I think I made my point pretty clear...Our crusader cousins have learned it...their boards basically say yes a shadowknight can tank T6 and lower KoS T7 zones...so can we...but when it comes to the higher end raiding that's where it's insane to try and roll a crusader tank...with a few exceptions maybe...but for the most part raid tanking tools were given to the guardian...it's been proven time and time again that they take less damage, hold the aggro better, and usually standing beside that guardian is a crusader doing their job...healing, intercepting, dpsing, etc...being a battle priest...If you want to MT Emerald Halls or Mistmore then roll a guardian and get him geared up to do so...face it...we aren't going to change SoE's mind...we're not gonna get any changes to make us the more uber raid tank...what's nerfed is nerfed, it's done...deal with it...Our SK cousins figured this out, why can't we??? Y'all can say what you want, and again there are a few Pallys out there that don't fit into the typical mold, but I can speak from a healer's point of view as well since I also come into raid on my wife's 70 mystic...Guardians in raid are easier to heal up and keep up.

[Kocia]

<cite>txleathertx wrote:</cite><blockquote>I read both the SK boards and the Pally boards...and I think I made my point pretty clear...Our crusader cousins have learned it...their boards basically say yes a shadowknight can tank T6 and lower KoS T7 zones...so can we...but when it comes to the higher end raiding that's where it's insane to try and roll a crusader tank...with a few exceptions maybe...but for the most part raid tanking tools were given to the guardian...it's been proven time and time again that they take less damage, hold the aggro better, and usually standing beside that guardian is a crusader doing their job...healing, intercepting, dpsing, etc...being a battle priest...If you want to MT Emerald Halls or Mistmore then roll a guardian and get him geared up to do so...face it...we aren't going to change SoE's mind...we're not gonna get any changes to make us the more uber raid tank...what's nerfed is nerfed, it's done...deal with it...Our SK cousins figured this out, why can't we??? Y'all can say what you want, and again there are a few Pallys out there that don't fit into the typical mold, but I can speak from a healer's point of view as well since I also come into raid on my wife's 70 mystic...Guardians in raid are easier to heal up and keep up.</blockquote> Exactly, tanking T7 raids is not the crusaders forte, just accept it and move on or reroll, or go to Vanguard, this constant whining drivel really crowds out useful discussion about this hybrid support class.  You just have to accept it, let's face it, as poster spelled out above, pallys won't change much and that's that.  Expecting huge class revamp right now so you can suddenly tank EH is NOT going to happen.  Move on.  SKs have.

[RaistNA]

yall arnt bright are u?  when did u join the game?  hrmmm? Point blank, upon release WHEN WE MADE OUR INITIAL CHARACTER SELECTION SoE was saying Pally's where going to be the second best tanks in game, beat only by guardians, but not by much and we would be more then enough to replace a guardian if needed.  That was NEVER said to Sk's, they knew from the getgo they would be dps fighters.  Now iv played my pally since week 1 of this game (made my bruiser day 1, pally day 2) and if ur going to tell me 'go reroll' i say [Removed for Content] you.  Iv spent too much time on this toon and creating it to be the best [Removed for Content] tanking paladin i can, despite how much SoE has shafted us in the regards.  All we are asking is SoE holds up their bloody promise of us being tanks. And i ask you, what is a hybrid crusaders role....oooo wait!  You're another [Removed for Content] who is comming here, telling us how to play the class that is a paladin, and you're prolly happy to clear HoF huh?  Did you get to see that leet dragon vyemm last week maybe?  I heard he was hard...srsly. Ok honestly, there is NO place for a hybrid crusader in a raid, period.  We bring nother in a raid that another class cant bring and better.  Backup tank/dps...well...zerker's own us there...an equally equiped zerker can go buckler line, smoke us in dps, and easily still tank, cause they have the abilitys.  Pure dps?  [Removed for Content] that take out the pally, throw a wiz, necro or assassin in there. Im done debating this though.  The point is that on a heroic level, we are fine, on a raid level, we need help lots of it.  There is no adapting because theres nothing to adapt to.  We are sub-par in every aspect of the game...sub-par tanks, sub-par dps and sub-par healers.  All some of us are trying to say is we were promised on release when we made our toons the ability to tank.  This long after release, we should not be told to reroll or except the fact that our only fun left in this game...raiding...is something that our class just isnt meant to do.

[Nevar]

<p>I think the pally class must depend on the player. Last night I tanked Ehs 3rd floor with 2 healers, Elrohn and Razieh, and had absolutely no issues. I dont think anythings wrong with us or we need anything changed at all. Though I would like to see our aas changed or tweaked abit <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I have tanked everything in the game outside of woushi, so those who say we arent as good, well think I just proved it wrong. </p>

[khufure]

<cite>Nevarer wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think the pally class must depend on the player. Last night I tanked Ehs 3rd floor with 2 healers, Elrohn and Razieh, and had absolutely no issues. I dont think anythings wrong with us or we need anything changed at all. Though I would like to see our aas changed or tweaked abit <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I have tanked everything in the game outside of woushi, so those who say we arent as good, well think I just proved it wrong. </p></blockquote> Good to hear but weren't you one of those people?

[Nevar]

no I have always said we can tank fine. Our dps is where I have been the most active in wanting to change. Plus since getting banned from the beta boards I have said very little this expansion. And the only pally I talk to doesnt really play anymore so I dont usually care what goes on in the community now.

[Mgunner]

<p>I'll agree about the DPS part, but for the sake of the discussion, I'll comment on tanking.  There are only a select group of really high end raiding paladins. Those in this category feel the pain of tanking more so than the casual raid guild paladin. </p><p>Once upon a time I was in a raid guild that raided every night, but still wasn't quite the level of my current guild. In this guild, I had great gear and the difference in tanking ability between me and the MT was minimal.  At the time, I thought we were great. </p><p>Then I joined a hardcore raiding guild. A guild that knows the respawn timers of all contested, wakes up at 3am to get one, leaves zones open for days, etc. This is where I learned the true short comings our our class. The difference between a hard core raid Guardian MT and the Pally is much greater. </p><p>The difference between the two types of guilds is how deep into a zone each can get. The tougher mobs deep in the current T7 (non kos garbage) make it very hard to survive as a paladin. It can be done, but it won't be the normal walk in the park it is with a guardian. I too, feel a bit cheated from the first release of the game. Day 1 paladin here. </p><p>Before you people comment on our tankability, or ask a question about it, please specify which type of playstyle you have. A herioc paladin or one in a normal raiding guild don't currently have a grasp on the big picture.</p>

[Leafkiller]

<p>I so wish I could say that paladins aren't broken, I really do...but its not true. Paladins are an orphan class without real roll in the endgame</p><p> Paladins have drifted a loooong way from what we were at the beginning of EQ2. In part, this is because we peak in our tanking and solo ability at around 50, and we never really catch up. By the time we hit 70, we are the third choice for tanking, 2nd rate healer, 2nd rate utility.</p><p>Thats not to see that we can't tank in a group, we can, but even there we aren't the best. The problem is that we are a utility class that is supposed to make up for lower mitigation and health using our spells, which are hard to use when you are MT, and we are just too fragile. Even as a rescue tank we are not all that useful, since our taunts are weak without Amends, which may or may not be helpful when things start going wrong...</p><p>I've redone all of my AA lines to boost my MT and group buffs, and made sure I have the resists to wade in to do dps, but its not the toon I wanted when I rolled a paladin on launch. The paladin is one of the strange classes out there now, we really don't have a purpose, and its hard to justify having more than one in the guild, let alone on a raid. </p><p>I've tried gearing and AAing as a MT and as a dps paladin and neither was very satisfying. I need too much healing and Amends is a challenge to use correctly on raids for a MT paladin - it can be done but its not the best solution for the raid. </p><p>As a dps paladin on a raid, I can do decent damage, but if the raid needs dps why not use a real dps class or a breserker? The answer is...so that I can add my paladin utilty...which I need to cripple to get decent dps.</p><p>Finally, I've settled on a true raid utility/buffing paladin with middling dps, that is pretty much hopeless solo, and iffy as a group tank (in any of the harder T7 group zones).  And he is parked most of the time, and only used raiding.</p><p>The proof that paladins are broken is how few raiding paladins are left, most people have long since rerolled.</p>

[Boli32]

<span style="color: #ffff00">The proof that paladins are broken is how few raiding paladins are left, most people have long since rerolled.</span> That same comment not 2 months ago would had led to a stream of replies several splinter threads and at least one person suddenly going quiet for a while as he oversteped the mods bounderies. Its just a shame the class is dieing; I know of several people who have "paladin alts" sitting at level 70 used for tradeskilling. I'm taking this oppurunity to reroll my pally and build him up from the ground up going completly back to basics and relearning everything... testing (with the help of a couple of supportive guildies) to try and find some... aspect of Pallys that actually make them stand out and worth playing end game. rather than just "generic wananbe  tank/healer/dps (delete as appropiate).

[Nevar]

We arent near as bad off as many people think. Like I said earlier I think the class is extremely dependant on the player. I have no issues with tanking/dps ( tho not spectacular at dps) and healing is so so depending on the situation. Not sure the class is dieing,  high end raiding isnt that fun and the class can be boring. Combine those 2 things and you wont have fun <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[txleathertx]

<p>Okay so coming into the forums and saying you can't control your volcabulary proves what?? So you've been a Pally since day one...big deal...I've been a Pally for over a year and a half myself. You point is what?? Yea...we got the big nerf goo shot all over us...and maybe...just maybe my guild desided to recruit my gimpy pally outta pitty since they didn't have one and I can't say if there's a difference between me being there or not since I don't know their style of play before. I can tell you that if you feel like you don't do nothing in raid then it seems the guild would say something to that effect...so if it's so dang horrible for us to be at a raid why are there raid Pallys?? Cause we DO serve a purpose...even if you're not an MT raid tank you still have amends for that fragile manaburning whizzie...if you're spec'ed out right, then you can DPS, Heal, and tank depending on your utility in guild. So we're not the big bad tank that Sony promised...y'all are throwing a bigger fit over this than folks did when we were promised "no new taxes"...Jeeze folks what's next...Are we gonna gripe about how much better the monk heal is than our lay of hands...the point of the matter is what's done is done and we can't change it, we can gripe about it, but that's not gonna get us far...it's been said over and over again, if you don't like what your pally has become.../reroll and good luck...as for me, I'm a proud pally...I serve a purpose in my guild...I've learned to adapt to being a battle priest...our SK cousins have adapted to battle mage. If you're a raid MT tank as a Pally, then hey good on ya...I might get to that point one day, I might not...it would be nice if I did, but I'm always more than willing to let the meatshields handle it while I kick back dps alittle here, heal a healer or 2 through rough AoEs, rez a few folks that got overcome, and still sink my spurs in and pick up a mob if needed.</p><p> And to some of you that can't seem to get off your high horse enough to realize that you too at one point got slaughtered by Tarinax, you too let Bloodbeast get the best of you...you weren't uber Pally from lvl 1. We've all been making steps to go from easy burn and slash mobs to EoF mobs that acutally make you think alittle bit and at some point some other new expansion will come out and we'll have a whole new set of rules to learn about being a Pally again I'm sure...but maybe you should try talking to us instead of talking down on us...you might make your point alittle better.</p>

[MajiinX]

<p>Well my paladin is only level 41 but I do have a level 70 zerker so I can already see the issues even at this low level.</p><p>First off Paladins are not fine, granted they are a jack of all trades but first and formost a pally is a fighter which means their primary job is to tank. Pallys have extremely low avoidance when compared to Warriors and Brawlers, no short term mit or avoidance buffs and no reactive hate procs which help ALOT especially on large encounters. </p><p> I really do enjoy the class a great deal, tanking is much different on a paladin then a berserker. And while a paladin can [Removed for Content] well tank in raids I beleave warirors are leaps and bounds above crusaders and hopefully that can change I just hope that perhaps SoE will consider tweaking us a little to give us a bit more in the tank department.</p>

[Ogrepalad]

<p>I have been a paladin since day one--never played anything else. I have taken a couple long breaks from the game. Am currently level 70, describe myself as moderately guild, am in a guild who raids in KOS still.</p><p> Our guild MT was a paladin. He got somewhat burned out; we are currently in the process of gearing up a guardian as raid MT.</p><p>I have very mixed emotions about my paladin. While I manage to tank in groups, in reasonably high end dungeons, at the very highest end I just die to quickly. Sure, I am not decked out in fabled, and if I was I would be better off for sure, but compared to a guardian at the same level of gear, I fall short. My lack of ability to stay standing does make my grouping harder, something I overcome via my charming personality (I managed to get groups as a paladin through the 2nd expansion in EQ--the one that introduced the iksar so long ago I have forgotten its name--that will tell you EQ old timers something, because paladins were never as [Removed for Content] as they were then).</p><p>On the flip side I like my healing, I like being able to flip out LOH to save someone, or lay out a group heal when an AE hits the group. </p><p> As far as raiding goes I have no illusions. I am not a raid tank. With uber gear I could raid in my guild (which isn't uber) but a similarly equipped guardian would always tank better. Or let me rephrase that. If I was a guardian, equipped the same way I am now, I would tank better than as a paladin. There we do--we eliminate the factor of individual skill. I do wish I did have the ability to raid tank better--at least to fling myself into the breach and grab a mob when the MT dies--the truth is that any time the MT goes down, I wind up lasting about 2 hits--and I don't have the tools to instantly grab aggro either.</p><p>I have come to think of Amends as a curse. It is great for aggro in the right situation, but because of that very fact, we are deprived of other solid means of getting aggro, and Amends requires the right situation--ie the person I cast it on getting lots of aggro themselves, to be useful. So because I have amends I don't have good general taunts. In a group I do ok most of the time, but in a raid, the odds that whoever I have amends on is pulling me aggro.....</p><p> I feel that my paladin is balanced reasonably for single group dungeon grouping, with heals somewhat balancing the reducing straight tanking abilities. The problem is, as high end tanking paladins are pointing out, is that this is not balanced for raiding. What use is a 1300 point ward when a mob is hitting for 6000?</p><p>In short, even though I am not an uber raid tanking paladin, I can already see what the paladins in this thread  are complaining about. I rolled this guy the day the game came live, and have lots of time invested on him despite some breaks, so rerolling up a guardian is really not the answer I want to hear. (I have started one, but I don't have the oomph in me to work through all the quests, and levels and zones--again. I might go try Vanguard before I do that).</p><p> SOE just needs to do some tweaking--find some way to tune paladins up a little more for raid tanking.</p>

[Rocksthemic]

If Itook says we're better off for tanking now in the high end than we were, I believe him. Just curious Itook... what do you think has made the largest difference? I suspected that the combination of the combat revamp + the shield block AA and adornments would help us out quite a bit. Did you find that is what made the difference? Or has it been something else that has increased our tankability vs raid mobs since EoF came out?

[Nevar]

I think there are a few things that contribute to our tanking this expansion. The biggest is the Block AA and the block adornments. Avoidance is key and with our ability to get our HP pretty high it helps since we have more life to have taken. But ill say this to, I dont know if its uber or if we have gotten better but ill say my healers are why I tank so good. Elrohn, razieh, fern etc, they dont let me die when im tanking. My tanking and my ability to tank I contribute to the healers we have guilded owning. They rock and are 90% why I tank so well. Same goes with any tank, if your healers are crap then you arent going anywhere. For those who say you have tanking issues, might try looking at your healers before you pass judgement on the paladin class.

[Rast]

<cite>Nevarer wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think there are a few things that contribute to our tanking this expansion. The biggest is the Block AA and the block adornments. Avoidance is key and with our ability to get our HP pretty high it helps since we have more life to have taken. But ill say this to, I dont know if its uber or if we have gotten better but ill say my healers are why I tank so good. Elrohn, razieh, fern etc, they dont let me die when im tanking. My tanking and my ability to tank I contribute to the healers we have guilded owning. They rock and are 90% why I tank so well. Same goes with any tank, if your healers are crap then you arent going anywhere. For those who say you have tanking issues, might try looking at your healers before you pass judgement on the paladin class.</blockquote> I think that is true at any level of hunting.  The better the healer, the better the tank looks and I make sure my healers know that I appreciate them! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />