ドイツプレイヤーとのコミュニケーション

[Momochi]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>先月はフランスプレイヤーとの交流スレッドが盛り上がりましたが今月はOktober festというイベントがドイツで開かれているため、ドイツにちなんだ話題をお送りしようと思います。皆さ んのドイツに関する思い出やドイツ人はゲームをどのようにして楽しんでいるのか、といった素朴な疑問でも何 でも結構ですので書き込んでみてください。Oktoberfestの中でお寄せいただいたプレイヤーの方か らの質問についてドイツプレイヤーとの会話をするためのスレッドを立てました。今後はこちらまで質問項目を お願いいたします。 このスレッドに因んで、ドイツのフォーラムにも<a href="message?board.id=g_nongame&message.id=6160" target="_blank">交流スレッド</a>が出来ましたのでぜひご覧下さい。<p align="left"><span>Jusel wrote: ドイツといえば確かにビールとかソーセージとか、ザワークラウトとか思い浮かんでしまいますが(食べ物ばっ かりですね……)、わたしにとってはゲーム! ファミリーボードゲームなのですっ! 美麗なボードやカードに木のコマ……見て楽しく、もちろん遊んでも楽しい。ゲームのテーマも日本のゲームに 比べて幅広く、興味深いです。 alea、 HABA、Doris & Frank、Kosmos、Goldsieber、Hans im Gluck、Abacus、Amigoといった会社のゲームで遊ぶことが多かったのですが、ドイツの方もよ くボードゲームで遊んだりするんでしょうか？ 日本では少数派なんですけど。 あぁ。。エッセンのゲームショーに行ってみたい……</span></p><div align="center"><span><hr size="2" width="100%"></span></div><span>Here is translation.Speaking of </span><span>Germany</span><span>, everyone images indeed beers, sausages, and sauerkraut but my image is game! Especially board game!Beautiful borads and cards and wooden pieces..... It's fun to just look and fun to play as well! I think the themes are wide variety and very interesting. I used to play alea, HAB, Doris & Fran, Kosmo, Goldsieber, Hans im Gluck, Abacus, and Amigo. Do German people play board games? japanese people are not a big fan of board games.Oh, I would love to go to the game show in </span><span>Essen</span><span>.....<!-- [if !supportLineBreakNewLine] -->Momochi<!-- [endif] --></span>    <div></div><p>Message Edited by Momochi on <span class="date_text">10-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">08:57 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Momochi on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:22 AM</span>

[Eovania]

<DIV> <P align=left><FONT face=Century><SPAN>Jusels Meinung über Deutschland ist dass viele Deutschland mit Bier, Bratwurst und Sauerkraut in Verbindung bringen - er jedoch hat eine besondere Verbindung zu D.: Brettspiele!</SPAN></FONT></P> <P align=left><FONT face=Century><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P align=left><FONT face=Century><SPAN>"Sie sind schön zum anschauen und bereiten noch mehr Spass beim spielen. Es gibt unzählig verschiedene Brettspiele mit einem breitem spektrum. Ich habe z.B. Alea, HAB, Doris & Fran, Kosmo, Goldsieber, Hans im Glück, Abacus und Amigo gespielt. </SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P> <P align=left><FONT face=Century><SPAN>Spielen deutsche dergleichen Brettspiele? Leute von hier (</SPAN><SPAN>Japan</SPAN><SPAN>) sind kein all zu grosser Fan von dergleichen Spiele...</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P> <P align=left><FONT face=Century><SPAN>Oh, ich würde liebend gerne zur Gameshow in </SPAN><SPAN>Essen</SPAN><SPAN> gehen!"</SPAN></FONT><SPAN></SPAN></P></DIV>

[Eovania]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Hallo Jusel, </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>also, vom Hans im Glück abgesehen kenne ich die anderen eigentlich nicht. Ich kenne Schach (was ich aber nie wirklich gespielt habe, es hat mich nie wirklich gereizt), was ich aber als Kind supergerne gespielt habe (und eigentlich auch noch gerne spiele, jedoch nun online, hehe) ist "Dame", "Mühle" "Halma" "Jäger und Hase" Mensch-Ärgere-Dich-Nicht (wohl eines der bekanntesten Brettspiele) und und und ...</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Wie schaut es bei euch anderen aus der deutschen  Community aus?</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Hi Jusel,</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>besides of Hans im Glück I actually don't know these other ones which you have mentioned. I know Check (well, I never really played it), but what I really loved to play (and still play once in a while online) is Queen, Mühle (I belive they call it nine men´s Morris), Jäger und Hase and one of the most popular games in Germany, Mensch-Ärgere-Dich-Nicht.</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>

[Momochi]

<div></div><div><blockquote>Thank you, Eovania! I thought check (chess) is very popular among all the people in Europe. We have similar game in Japan called "Shogi". It's almost same game as chess and it's fun!Momochi<hr>Eovania wrote:<div></div> <div> <p><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Hallo Jusel, </font></span></p> <p><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">also, vom Hans im Glück abgesehen kenne ich die anderen eigentlich nicht. Ich kenne Schach (was ich aber nie wirklich gespielt habe, es hat mich nie wirklich gereizt), was ich aber als Kind supergerne gespielt habe (und eigentlich auch noch gerne spiele, jedoch nun online, hehe) ist "Dame", "Mühle" "Halma" "Jäger und Hase" Mensch-Ärgere-Dich-Nicht (wohl eines der bekanntesten Brettspiele) und und und ...</font></span></p> <p><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Wie schaut es bei euch anderen aus der deutschen  Community aus?</font></span></p> <p><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Hi Jusel,</font></span></p> <p><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">besides of Hans im Glück I actually don't know these other ones which you have mentioned. I know Check (well, I never really played it), but what I really loved to play (and still play once in a while online) is Queen, Mühle (I belive they call it nine men´s Morris), Jäger und Hase and one of the most popular games in Germany, Mensch-Ärgere-Dich-Nicht.</font></span></p></div><hr></blockquote>ドイツコミュニティー担当のEovaniaからの返答メッセージを翻訳させていただきます。Juselさん 私は<span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Hans im Glückだけ聞いたことがありますが、今回あげていただいた他の名前は聞いたことがありません。チェック （チェスのことですよね）というゲームは知っていますが（ほとんどプレーしたことはありません）、私が好き なゲームはクイーン、</font></span><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Mühle（Nine' men's Morrisと呼ばれていると思います）と</font></span><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Jäger und Haseと、ドイツで一番有名なゲームの</font></span><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Mensch-Ärgere-Dich-Nichtです。一体どんなゲームなのでしょうね。もしご存知の方がいらっしゃいましたら投稿お待ちしてい ます！</font></span></div><p>Message Edited by Momochi on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:24 AM</span>

[Momochi]

<div></div>Dear German players,There is another question from Syahal. Please give us your opinions!Syahal wrote:<a href="../view_profile?user.id=240485" target="_blank"><span></span></a><img alt="" src="../../i/p.gif" border="0" height="1" width="1"><p>日本で言われているドイツの人のイメージは「論理的な人たち」のようです（日本だけじゃない？）。ところで 、EQ2で論理的な種族と言うと、エルダイトが思いつくと思います。同じようなイメージで捉えられている間 柄として、エルダイトに対して何かコメントもらえますか？<img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16">素面で書いた文章もビール片手に書いた文章も歓迎です。</p><p>Here is translation.</p><p>Japanese think German as "logical people" (maybe not only Japan?). BTW, speaking of logial race, I can think of Erudite on EQ2. Can you give us some comments on Erudite from your point of view?both casual and serious comments are welcome!</p><p></p>  <div></div>

[Iskra]

<P>Eruditen... hm.</P> <P>Eruditen waren schon über die ganze Geschichte von EQ eine eher eigenbrödlerische Rasse. Bei ihnen steht der Intellekt und damit auch die Magie an oberster Stelle. Wen wundert es, wurde ihre Rasse doch von flüchtigen Magiern begründet. Sie haben sich selbst, freiwillig, auf ihr hohes Niveau gezüchtet, was doch einiges über sie aussagt. Und die Tatsache, daß die beiden Städte Erudin und Paineel sich zusammenschlossen um ein magisches Experiment zu starten, welches den Eruditen ihr jetziges Aussehen verlieh, macht sie noch merkwürdiger. (meinereiner wüßte wirklich zugerne worum es bei diesem Experiment ging)</P> <P>Diese, zugegeben wenigen Fakten, welche über sie bekannt sind lassen vermuten, daß sie tief im Inneren sich durch ihre "Selbstzüchtung" als etwas Besseres ansehen, vielleicht nicht mal mehr als Geschöpfe der Götter. Diese Haltung kommt gerade in Freihafen gut zum tragen. Sie besitzen viel Ehrgeiz und Disziplin. Eigentlich zwei positive Eigenschaften, welche in Maßen genossen, einem sehr viel weiter bringen kann. Eruditen, so schätzt meinereiner machen diese Gradwanderung meist nicht immer zu ihren Gunsten, was zusammen mit ihrer Arroganz die sie an den Tag legen einen sehr schlechten Ruf einbringt. Nichts gegen ihre Leistungen. Dafür verdienen sie eindeutig Respekt. Aber Takt und Fingerspitzengefühl sind nicht gerade ihre Stärken. *gg*</P> <P>Winke winke,</P> <P>Iskra Roomsmoke</P><p>Message Edited by Iskra on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:08 AM</span>

[Iskra]

<P>Brettspiele</P> <P>Hm, Hab als Kind gerne gespielt. Jetzt hab ich leider eher weniger Leute, die so etwas mit mir spielen würden. Dafür lieber Papier und Bleistift RPGs *gg* Bzw, verschiedene Kartenspiele, allerdings nicht die Klassiker wie Skat, Rommee und sowas. Eher etwas Ausgefallenere *gg*</P> <P>Was hat meinereiner als Kind gerne gespielt. Uiuiui. *grübel* Sagaland, Mensch ärgere dich nicht,, Spiel des Lebens. Das Malefizspiel. Zugegeben, es ist kein japanisches Spiel und auch kein Brettspiel, aber meinereiner mag Mah Jong gerne.</P> <P>Schach, Dame und sowas hat meinereiner nie gelegen. </P> <P>Das meinereiner dies aber nicht für eine deutsche Sicht der Dinge ausgelegt wird. Meinereiner stammt aus dem schönen Österreich, genauergesagt gebürtiger Wiener ;P. </P> <P>Winke winke,</P> <P>Iskra Roomsmoke</P><p>Message Edited by Iskra on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 AM</span>

[Eovania]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iskra wrote:<BR> <P>Brettspiele</P> <P>Hm, Hab als Kind gerne gespielt. Jetzt hab ich leider eher weniger Leute, die so etwas mit mir spielen würden. Dafür lieber Papier und Bleistift RPGs *gg* Bzw, verschiedene Kartenspiele, allerdings nicht die Klassiker wie Skat, Rommee und sowas. Eher etwas Ausgefallenere *gg*</P> <P>Was hat meinereiner als Kind gerne gespielt. Uiuiui. *grübel* Sagaland, Mensch ärgere dich nicht,, Spiel des Lebens. Das Malefizspiel. Zugegeben, es ist kein japanisches Spiel und auch kein Brettspiel, aber meinereiner mag Mah Jong gerne.</P> <P>Schach, Dame und sowas hat meinereiner nie gelegen.</P> <P>Das meinereiner dies aber nicht für eine deutsche Sicht der Dinge ausgelegt wird. Meinereiner stammt aus dem schönen Österreich, genauergesagt gebürtiger Wiener ;P.</P> <P>Winke winke,</P> <P>Iskra Roomsmoke</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffff00>Iskra, a player from Austria, used to play board games when she was a kid. Nowadays she plays pen&paper RPGs as well as card games. Iskras favorite board games were Sagaland, Mensch ärgere dich nicht, Spiel des Lebens, Malefizspiel - and Mah Jong.</FONT><BR>

[Momochi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Eovania wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Iskra wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <p>Brettspiele</p> <p>Hm, Hab als Kind gerne gespielt. Jetzt hab ich leider eher weniger Leute, die so etwas mit mir spielen würden. Dafür lieber Papier und Bleistift RPGs *gg* Bzw, verschiedene Kartenspiele, allerdings nicht die Klassiker wie Skat, Rommee und sowas. Eher etwas Ausgefallenere *gg*</p> <p>Was hat meinereiner als Kind gerne gespielt. Uiuiui. *grübel* Sagaland, Mensch ärgere dich nicht,, Spiel des Lebens. Das Malefizspiel. Zugegeben, es ist kein japanisches Spiel und auch kein Brettspiel, aber meinereiner mag Mah Jong gerne.</p> <p>Schach, Dame und sowas hat meinereiner nie gelegen.</p> <p>Das meinereiner dies aber nicht für eine deutsche Sicht der Dinge ausgelegt wird. Meinereiner stammt aus dem schönen Österreich, genauergesagt gebürtiger Wiener ;P.</p> <p>Winke winke,</p> <p>Iskra Roomsmoke</p> <hr> </blockquote><font color="#ffff00">Iskra, a player from Austria, used to play board games when she was a kid. Nowadays she plays pen&paper RPGs as well as card games. Iskras favorite board games were Sagaland, Mensch ärgere dich nicht, Spiel des Lebens, Malefizspiel - and Mah Jong.</font><hr></blockquote>こちらがIskraさんのお返事の翻訳です。Iskraさんはオーストリアのプレイヤーです。<font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff">私は子供の頃よくボードゲームで遊んでいました。この頃はペンと紙のRPGやカードゲームで遊ぶそうです。 私のお気に入りのボードゲームは</font><font color="#ffffff">Sagaland、 Mensch ärgere dich nicht、 Spiel des Lebens、 Malefizspiel や Mah Jongです。これらのゲームは日本で発売されていたりするのでしょうか？もしご存知の方がいらっしゃいま したらお知らせ下さいね。</font><font color="#ffffff"></font></div>

[Momochi]

<div></div><div></div>Sagalandというゲームの情報は<a href="http://www.funagain.com/control/product/%7Eproduct_id=00447/%7Eaffiliate_id=TGRO" target="_blank">こちら</a>でご覧いただけます。Momochi        <div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Momochi on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:43 AM</span>

[Vaiko]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Momochi wrote:</P> <P><SPAN>Jusel:</SPAN> </P> <SPAN>Speaking of </SPAN><SPAN>Germany</SPAN><SPAN>, everyone images indeed beers, sausages, and sauerkraut but my image is game! Especially board game! Beautiful borads and cards and wooden pieces..... It's fun to just look and fun to play as well! I think the themes are wide variety and very interesting. I used to play alea, HAB, Doris & Fran, Kosmo, Goldsieber, Hans im Gluck, Abacus, and Amigo. Do German people play board games? japanese people are not a big fan of board games. </SPAN> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, I know German people who play board games regular. I, for myself spend one evening per week playing board games with friends (sometime we play card games as well). <P>When I think about Japanese people and board games, I always think about Go. Is this game not common in Japan?</P> <P>I think Go (like chess) it’s not really fitting into the list (I see what you meant with board games) but for me it would still fall into the category of board game in the broad sense.</P><p>Message Edited by Vaiko on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:59 AM</span>

[Vaiko]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Momochi wrote: Dear German players, There is another question from Syahal. Please give us your opinions! Syahal wrote: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=240485" target=_blank><SPAN></SPAN></A><IMG height=1 alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=1 border=0> <P>日本で言われているドイツの人のイメージは「論理的な人たち」のようです（日本だけじゃない？ ）。 ところで、EQ2で論理的な種族と言うと、エルダイトが思いつくと思います。 同じようなイメージで捉えられている間柄として、エルダイトに対して何かコメントもらえますか ？<IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0> 素面で書いた文章もビール片手に書いた文章も歓迎です。</P> <P>Here is translation.</P> <P>Japanese think German as "logical people" (maybe not only Japan?). BTW, speaking of logial race, I can think of Erudite on EQ2. Can you give us some comments on Erudite from your point of view? both casual and serious comments are welcome!</P> <P></P>   <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I’m not giving here lots of comments on Erudite except that sometimes I think they look like Aliens to me. Nothing I would like to spend lots of time together with.</P> <P>Seeing German as “logical people” is probably like our image that Asian people are always very polite. What do you think as Japanese?</P>

[Momochi]

<div><blockquote>Vaiko wrote:Yes, I know German people who play board games regular. I, for myself spend one evening per week playing board games with friends (sometime we play card games as well). <p>When I think about Japanese people and board games, I always think about Go. Is this game not common in Japan?</p> <p>I think Go (like chess) it’s not really fitting into the list (I see what you meant with board games) but for me it would still fall into the category of board game in the broad sense.</p></blockquote>こちらがVaikoさんコメントの翻訳です。そうですね、ドイツ人はよくボードゲームをします。私自身は友 達と週に１回はボードゲームをします（時々はカードゲームもします）。日本人とボードゲームと言えば、私は Goを思い浮かべます。このゲームは日本では有名じゃないですか？（Goというのは日本語でどういう風に訳 されているかちょっと不安なのでそのままにしておきました。どなたかご存知の方がいらっしゃいましたら教え てください。By Momochi）Go(チェスのようなもの）はボードゲームのカテゴリーには入らないと思いますが、私的に はこのボードゲームのカテゴリーにしたいところです。</div>

[Momochi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vaiko wrote:<div></div> <blockquote><p></p> <div></div>I’m not giving here lots of comments on Erudite except that sometimes I think they look like Aliens to me. Nothing I would like to spend lots of time together with.</blockquote> <p> Seeing German as “logical people” is probably like our image that Asian people are always very polite. What do you think as Japanese?</p><hr></blockquote>こちらがVaikoさんの翻訳文です。エルダイトについては私には宇宙人のように見えると言う意外は、特に 多くのコメントはありません。一緒に時間を過ごしたいと思うようなキャラクターではありません。ドイツ人を 論理的な人種、と見るのは、私達がアジア人はいつも非常に礼儀正しい、とイメージするのと同じようなもので すね。この点については日本人としてどう思われますか？</div>

[Momochi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vaiko wrote:<div></div> <blockquote><div></div>I’m not giving here lots of comments on Erudite except that sometimes I think they look like Aliens to me. Nothing I would like to spend lots of time together with.</blockquote> <p> Seeing German as “logical people” is probably like our image that Asian people are always very polite. What do you think as Japanese?</p><hr></blockquote>Hi Vaiko,Thank you for your comments. To be honest, I really never imagine that German as logical people. I rather think you guys as funny people. I think German people have the best sense of humor! I always have fun when I hang out with people from Germany. As for politeness, I don't think not all the Asian countries fall into this category (I'm not going to say which country though<span>:smileywink:</span>). But Japanese are indeed most polite people in the world! Please let us know if you have other stereo type of Japanese you can imagine! Thank you!Momochi</div>

[Ecco-Saeuferin]

<P><FONT size=3>Momochiさん、Goは碁のことだとおもいます。たぶん。</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>で、囲碁はどちらかというと年配の方が楽しまれるイメージが強いですが、今(というよりも少し前?)は囲碁 を題材にした漫画の影響で、<BR></FONT><FONT size=3>子供も増えているというニュースを見たことがあります。<BR></FONT><FONT size=3>私の年代ではオセロの方が馴染み深いですね。リバーシのほうが通りがいいのかな?</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>ボードゲームで言えば、人生ゲームとかすごろく系ですね。ただ、あまり大人になってからはしな いかも…</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT></P><FONT size=3></FONT> <HR> <P><FONT size=3>Vaikoさんの「いつも非常に礼儀正しい」は面映くて照れくさくなってしまいますねえ。私は単なるええか っこしいなんで＾＾；<BR></FONT><FONT size=3>私のことは置いておくとして、アジア人、というより日本人視点で考えてみると（自分が日本人だ からね）、<BR></FONT><FONT size=3>相手を立てようって気質が強いのかもしれませんね。</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>初めて合った人に対して距離を置きがちな人も、どんな人でも大歓迎するよおばちゃんは＾＾ってな人も、自己 中な人も、<BR></FONT><FONT size=3>いろいろと違った理由（目上である・喜んでもらおう・悪くみられたくないの・等々）で、皆相手に気分を害し て欲しくない気持ちが強くて、<BR></FONT><FONT size=3>それが「相手を立てる」って方向に向かいやすいのかも。</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>でも…接したことはありませんが、TVや本で見る限り、どこの国の人もええひとは皆礼儀正しいような気がし ます。ええ。:smileyhappy:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>* ありがとーう！って、前もあなたに教わったような。ご迷惑かけまして｡･ﾟ･(ﾉД`)･ﾟ･ ｡ </FONT></P> <P>このメッセージは <SPAN class=date_text>10-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:31 AM</SPAN>に ecco1970 が編集しています。</P><p>このメッセージは <span class=date_text>10-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:19 AM</span>に ecco1970 が編集しています。

[Oira]

<P>他のスレにもレスしたことがあるTips</P> <P>返信時の入力の場合起きることのようですが</P> <P>このように改行（Enter）で一行飛ばしになる場合は、「Shift+Enter」で<BR>このように改行できます。<BR>改行にならずにTabのように空白数文字分空いた場合、BSキーで戻したりしてみて下さい。</P> <P>この新規スレ立てと返信時の入力挙動が違うのは、不適切な文言警告と同じように<BR>Internationalフォーラム固有の現象なんでしょうかね？</P>

[Enora]

Sagalandは日本語版も出ていましたよ。そのほかのゲームも調べてみたのですが、麻雀以外は知らない ものばかりです。以前あげたゲームメーカーの中にRavensburgerは敢えて入れてなかったのですが 、Ravensburgerがメジャーなんでしょうか。 引っ越しをする前はDie siedler von Catanとか、6nimmt!、Lost Cityなどなど、よく遊んでいました。海外のゲームを輸入して翻訳したルールを添付して販売しているお店 が近所にあったので。 ボードゲームやカードゲームだけじゃなく、紙とペンを用いたRPGも大好きです<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 残念ながら、日本では碁、将棋、麻雀を除いて、ボードゲームやカードゲームはメジャーとは言えませんし、「 子供のもの」だと思われています。 わたしにとってはエルダイトよりもドワーフの方がドイツ人のイメージに近いです。 それはさておきエルダイト。 EQ1ではバーバリアンのシャーマンで遊んでいたのですが、エルダイトには「見てみて! スライムが喋ってる!」などと罵られ、ろくに相手にされなかった思い出があります。 EQ2ではそんなこともなく、難民生活の影響なのか、ずいぶんおとなしくなったなぁ……というのが印象です 。オーダス島(まだあるのか知らないんですが)に残っているエルダイトは高慢なままなのかなぁ 。。<p>このメッセージは <span class=date_text>10-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:02 PM</span>に Jusel が編集しています。

[Iskra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Momochi wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vaiko wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> I’m not giving here lots of comments on Erudite except that sometimes I think they look like Aliens to me. Nothing I would like to spend lots of time together with.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P> Seeing German as “logical people” is probably like our image that Asian people are always very polite. What do you think as Japanese?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hi Vaiko,<BR><BR>Thank you for your comments.<BR><BR>To be honest, I really never imagine that German as logical people. I rather think you guys as funny people. I think German people have the best sense of humor! I always have fun when I hang out with people from Germany.<BR>As for politeness, I don't think not all the Asian countries fall into this category (I'm not going to say which country though<SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN>). But Japanese are indeed most polite people in the world! Please let us know if you have other stereo type of Japanese you can imagine! Thank you!<BR><BR>Momochi<BR></DIV> <P><BR></P> <HR> <BR>From what we here in Europe hear from your country, some  of your habits sounds a bit odd. Sometimes you seem to be spliten, in modern times and old traditions. Your love for electronicel and mechaniceal things and the believe in old rituals and religons, you seem to be a little bit like the gnomes in Everquest, with their tinkering and clockworks. *gg* But the gnomes also believe in the god and the old ways to serve them. The prejudice, that Japanese are small people  take also part for this comparison. <P>Personaly, I think Japanese are caught between modern times and old ways. With a large sense of duty, respectfull, manners and  honor it sounds normal to be polite. When I think of Japan, there are also images of Intriques of nobles for might and power behind this noble behavior, like everywhere in the world.</P> <P>Your country and your people are fascinating to me. Very strange, but that should we german speaking people an the opposit side for you too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Winke winke,</P> <P>Iskra Roomsmoke</P>

[Hobbita]

<DIV> <DIV>ボードゲーム、友達に誘われてCatanを良くプレイしてました</DIV> <DIV>あれも確かドイツ生まれのゲームですよね？</DIV> <DIV>日本ではあまり人が集まってゲームをすると言う風習が無いのでマイナーなジャンルですが</DIV> <DIV>たまにやるとゲームデザインが良くできていて、楽しむと同時に感心してしまいます</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ヨーロッパのゲームプレイヤーに以前から聞いてみたかった事があるのですが</DIV> <DIV>ゲームや漫画に宗教的モチーフが使われることにどう思いますか？</DIV> <DIV>日本のゲームなんかだと昔から結構無節操に使われてるんですが（各地域の神々を使役して、他の神々と戦わせ るようなゲームまで有ります）</DIV> <DIV>日本人が宗教に関して無節操（信じていないのとは違うんですが）なのが原因なんだと思いますが、その辺の所 はキチンと信仰を持ってる方々にはどう見えるのかなと疑問に思いました</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ちなみに、ゲルマン神話なんかは日本のゲーム業界にとって非常に好まれてるモチーフです:robothap py:</DIV> <DIV>（ドイツでは早くからキリスト教化されたとの事だから、昔話的な位置づけなのかな？）</DIV></DIV>

[Chamame]

<P>ボードゲームは、モノポリー（MONOPOLY）をよくプレイします。<BR>プレイ人口はおそらく世界一ではないでしょうか。<BR>アメリカ産のゲームですが、ドイツでもプレイヤーは多いと思いますが、いかがでしょうか。<BR><BR>GO（碁）もときどき遊びます。まだまだ初心者なので、修行中ですが:smileyhappy:<BR>日本では、将棋と並んで伝統的なゲームになっています。囲碁・将棋専門のテレビチャネルもあり ます。<BR>ルールがシンプルなこともあり、世界に広まっているようですね。世界大会なども行われています 。<BR></P>

[Vaiko]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Momochi wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for politeness, I don't think not all the Asian countries fall into this category (I'm not going to say which country though<SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN>). But Japanese are indeed most polite people in the world! Please let us know if you have other stereo type of Japanese you can imagine! <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I could imagine whom you think about. At least I have my experiences and therefore I have an expectation. :smileywink:</P> <P>Humor is something very special. Some things are funny for one person but not funny at all for another person. I’m happy that you had lots of fun with German people.</P> <P>I personal like, when humor is coming out of the situation. Often, my humor has an aspect of teasing but I try to keep a clear limit. Should never be too personal. If people are responding to this, it creates lots of funny situations, especially in nice groups during playtime. But as always, some people don’t find this funny at all. Ok, that’s my type of humor. :smileytongue:</P> <P>I personally don’t believe in stereotypes (at least I try). You may see some tendencies but the differences between people is larger then the differences between cultures. Still there is some unwritten law for every culture, which you need to be careful about but I enjoy spending time with people and don’t care too much about the cultural background.</P>

[Vaiko]

<P>How many people in Japan can speak / read / write German? Is it pretty rare?</P> <P>I know it’s pretty rare for Germans to be able to speak / read / write Japanese. The different way of writing doesn’t make it easier for us.</P> <P>I would assume that learning some basic English is part of the normal school education in Japan like it is for Germany. Is my assumption right?</P>

[Vaiko]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iskra wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> you seem to be a little bit like the gnomes in Everquest</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Iskra, I hope you are not relating Gnomes with Japanese culture, are you?</P> <P>For me they are soooo different. I would much more relate Gnomes with the German culture, all Gnomes are some kind of crazy, don’t you think so? (ok, maybe this is a stereotype and I should not say this)</P> <P>If I remember some old movies I’ve seen, than I remember the crazy scientists. They could all be gnomes if they would be playing in Norrath. Were not lots of these crazy scientists in those movies from Germany?</P> <P>Village of Shin is giving me an Asian feeling but I think it’s going more into the Chinese direction then the Japanese (I’m not an expert, just a feeling). Do you see any Gnomes there??? :smileywink:</P>

[Momochi]

Goは碁のことですね！よく考えればそのままですね！失礼しました。私はまたゴーという名前のボードゲーム が日本で売られているのかと思いました。色々なゲーム情報ありがとうございます。  ドイツ人から見て日本人はとても魅惑的に見えるようですね。興味深々というところです。またゲーム情報をお 待ちしています。Momochi<div></div>

[Momochi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vaiko wrote:<div></div> <p>How many people in Japan can speak / read / write German? Is it pretty rare?</p> <p>I know it’s pretty rare for Germans to be able to speak / read / write Japanese. The different way of writing doesn’t make it easier for us.</p> <p>I would assume that learning some basic English is part of the normal school education in Japan like it is for Germany. Is my assumption right?</p><hr></blockquote>Hi Vaiko,It's very rare to find someone who can speak/ read/ write German in Japan. We learn English from junior high school to high school as you think though English is still hard language for Japanese!Momochi </div>

[Momochi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vaiko wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Momochi wrote: <div> </div> <div>As for politeness, I don't think not all the Asian countries fall into this category (I'm not going to say which country though<span>:smileywink:</span>). But Japanese are indeed most polite people in the world! Please let us know if you have other stereo type of Japanese you can imagine! <hr> </div></blockquote> <p>I could imagine whom you think about. At least I have my experiences and therefore I have an expectation. :smileywink:</p> <p>Humor is something very special. Some things are funny for one person but not funny at all for another person. I’m happy that you had lots of fun with German people.</p> <p>I personal like, when humor is coming out of the situation. Often, my humor has an aspect of teasing but I try to keep a clear limit. Should never be too personal. If people are responding to this, it creates lots of funny situations, especially in nice groups during playtime. But as always, some people don’t find this funny at all. Ok, that’s my type of humor. :smileytongue:</p> <p>I personally don’t believe in stereotypes (at least I try). You may see some tendencies but the differences between people is larger then the differences between cultures. Still there is some unwritten law for every culture, which you need to be careful about but I enjoy spending time with people and don’t care too much about the cultural background.</p><hr></blockquote>Glad to hear that you care less for stereotypes.  I also try not to believe until I really see it by myself. America is really diversity and we see almost all kind of races here in California. How about in Germany? Do you see wide variety of people from all over the world?Momochi</div>

[Iskra]

<P>@Vaiko</P> <P>I don't think Gnomes in EQ are crazy. They love their clockworks and also the old ways. And that's the picture most european see the japanease people. Gnomes are the scientists in Norrath. Ok, Erudits too, but more for the magical way.  I try not to mix up asian cultures and my knowledge about every land is small. The Information european people can get about japanese culture is for our point of standing strange and a bit funny in modern ways (Gnomes? *looking cute and innocent*) or your anicent ways, like Samurais very honorable ( greetings from Paladins). I know, the view from your side of the world to our part of the world, our culture must be the same. And hey, isn't that thread made to negate such believings and predjudice? *gg*</P> <P>German as crazy scientists? Sure. You must be crazy to invent an a-bomb, but Kamicaze pilots are for my stand of viewing crazy too. German and austrian poeple aren't like those films you see in TV. They are overdrawn sterotypes, left from ww2 of enemy countries, especially america. And please, don't mix up german and austrian culture. They are nearly the same, but diffrent in many ways. I'm an Austrian living for some years now in germany. And some things are strange in my eyes, too *gg* But I wouldn't say Gnomes are like german people. They aren't so fascinated for modern clockworks and they don't love their past so much, even the one before ww2.</P> <P>Momonci said, she/he thinks at beer, sausage and sauerkraut, when she/he thinks at germany. That's a very american point of viewing *gg* ( ok, americans usually believe Australia lies in the middle of europe and in Austria live nice cangaroos) When I think of germany, I image Oktoberfest, the beautiful Mountains of the Alpen, Northsea. Cows, Goethe and Schiller. And for the past? Celts and  great Kings. When I look to Austria, I image Vienna and Vindobona, Opernball, the mountains of the alpen,forests, celts and the roman empire, great kings and queens, Johann Strauß sen. and jr. and Grillparzer. Oh and cows too *gg*</P> <P>So what did you see when you look at your country and culture?</P> <P>Winke winke,</P> <P>Iskra Roomsmoke</P> <P>Oh, and I didn't care for stereotypes, too. </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Iskra on <span class=date_text>10-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:20 AM</span>

[Vaiko]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Momochi wrote: <DIV>Glad to hear that you care less for stereotypes.  I also try not to believe until I really see it by myself. America is really diversity and we see almost all kind of races here in California. How about in Germany? Do you see wide variety of people from all over the world? Momochi</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think it depends on where you live in Germany. In urban areas, you see quite some people from all over the world but most of the foreign people are from European countries. The diversity is not nearly as much as in America. I personally never visited California but I spend some time at the east coast. It was always fun to work with all the people that had those different cultural backgrounds.</P> <P>I think the integration of foreigners in Germany is very different than it is in America but I’m not able to explain it. I think you need to experience it, then you would probably understand what I mean.</P> <P>In rural areas, I think foreigners are not so common. But better someone form countryside comment on this because I’m rarely out there.</P>

[Vaiko]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iskra wrote: <P>@Vaiko</P> <P>I don't think Gnomes in EQ are crazy. They love their clockworks and also the old ways. And that's the picture most european see the japanease people. Gnomes are the scientists in Norrath. Ok, Erudits too, but more for the magical way.  I try not to mix up asian cultures and my knowledge about every land is small. The Information european people can get about japanese culture is for our point of standing strange and a bit funny in modern ways (Gnomes? *looking cute and innocent*) or your anicent ways, like Samurais very honorable ( greetings from Paladins). I know, the view from your side of the world to our part of the world, our culture must be the same. And hey, isn't that thread made to negate such believings and predjudice? *gg*</P> <P>German as crazy scientists? Sure. You must be crazy to invent an a-bomb, but Kamicaze pilots are for my stand of viewing crazy too. German and austrian poeple aren't like those films you see in TV. They are overdrawn sterotypes, left from ww2 of enemy countries, especially america. And please, don't mix up german and austrian culture. They are nearly the same, but diffrent in many ways. I'm an Austrian living for some years now in germany. And some things are strange in my eyes, too *gg* But I wouldn't say Gnomes are like german people. They aren't so fascinated for modern clockworks and they don't love their past so much, even the one before ww2.</P> <P>Momonci said, she/he thinks at beer, sausage and sauerkraut, when she/he thinks at germany. That's a very american point of viewing *gg* ( ok, americans usually believe Australia lies in the middle of europe and in Austria live nice cangaroos) When I think of germany, I image Oktoberfest, the beautiful Mountains of the Alpen, Northsea. Cows, Goethe and Schiller. And for the past? Celts and  great Kings. When I look to Austria, I image Vienna and Vindobona, Opernball, the mountains of the alpen,forests, celts and the roman empire, great kings and queens, Johann Strauß sen. and jr. and Grillparzer. Oh and cows too *gg*</P> <P>So what did you see when you look at your country and culture?</P> <P>Winke winke,</P> <P>Iskra Roomsmoke</P> <P>Oh, and I didn't care for stereotypes, too.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Iskra on <SPAN class=date_text>10-17-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>02:20 AM</SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok, I may not share the picture from what most European see in Japanese people. The impression I have is not “of standing strange and a bit funny in modern ways”. But we may get our impression from different sources and within a different personal background, so there is no surprise that we may have different impressions about foreign cultures or countries.</P> <P>I don’t mix up Austrian and German culture. They are quite different in some aspects. I don’t talk about Austrian culture because I don’t know enough about it even if I have some friends, which live in Vienna and some, which are form other areas of Austria. :smileywink:</P> <P>If you have a history like we have as German I think you better be careful with glorifying your past. Sometimes history is something you can be proud of, but you better learn from the actions and results of your ancestors. Especially from the actions you are not proud of.</P> <P>To just have a picture of the culture I’m living in is very difficult for me. I’m so embedded into it, that most of the things are so obvious to me, I would never talk about it. But if you start to point out things and highlight habits then I may say: Oh, yes. That’s really strange that we do this different but I guess that’s because of …</P> <P>If you live as Austrian in Germany it may be easier for you because you have a little bit more distance to the German culture and you may be able to see some funny things. Overall, I think the Austrian culture had lots of interaction with German culture and we share lots of commonalities. By the way, there is not one “German culture”. Bavaria is so different from the northern German culture that you may consider them almost as two different German cultures.</P>

[Iskra]

<P>Every country has history to be not be proud of it. That's normal and ok. Moral and the view of the world changes in passing of time. And I think, Im not a typical Austrian *gg*</P> <P>So my questions still stands. Oh, and it would be nice from our japanese friends here to answer, too.</P> <P>When you think of your country, what did you see? What pictures and catchwords? </P> <P>Winke winke,</P> <P>Iskra Roomsmoke</P>

[Momochi]

<blockquote><hr>Iskra wrote:<div></div> <p>Every country has history to be not be proud of it. That's normal and ok. Moral and the view of the world changes in passing of time. And I think, Im not a typical Austrian *gg*</p> <p>So my questions still stands. Oh, and it would be nice from our japanese friends here to answer, too.</p> <p>When you think of your country, what did you see? What pictures and catchwords? </p> <p>Winke winke,</p> <p>Iskra Roomsmoke</p><hr></blockquote>Hi Iskra,When I think of Japan, I imagine beautiful forrests and rice fields. These are the pictures of countryside in Japan. When people think of Japan, everyone talks about Tokyo and how modern it is, but since I grew up in the mountains, I love the scenery of countryside in Japan.  Hmmm, I can't think of catchwords so let me ask my players. By the way, Japanese people like Haiku. It's a language play that you can be very creative. Have you heard Haiku before?Momochi   <div></div>

[Momochi]

今回Iskraさんから日本プレイヤーの皆さんへ質問です。日本と言うと、どんな景色やキャッチフレーズを 思い浮かべますか？私は田舎育ちのため、日本と言うと山と田畑のきれいな風景が思い出されます。もし皆さん が思いつくことがあれば日本語で結構ですので書き込みしてください。お待ちしています。Mom ochi   <div></div>

[Iskra]

<P>Yes, I've heard about it. But I've never been good at such things *gg* </P><p>Message Edited by Iskra on <span class=date_text>10-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:09 PM</span>

[Vaiko]

<P>Is Haiku the game where your “next” word needs to start with the last phoneme of the word from the previous player?</P> <P> </P> <P>Edit:<BR>I invested the time and took a short look at google. I’m wrong, so wrong. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>The examples I saw in German did not convince me that this would be something that works so well with the German language. But that’s my personal opinion.</P><p>Message Edited by Vaiko on <span class=date_text>10-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:14 AM</span>

[Lord Hirobumi Sath]

<DIV>ドイツの方とコミュニケーションが取れるのはいいのですが、「お、英語だ。翻訳するの面倒だなー」となって おりましたので、ネタを振ってもらえてうれしいです。Niceです、エースMomochiさん 。</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>私の実家もMomochiさんと同様田舎ですので、田んぼだらけですがちょっと目線を動かすと山も見えます 。山を子供の頃歩いて越えますと（10分ぐらいで横断できます）御陵牧場という牧場が見えて突然メルヘンワ ールドのようなでっかい平原が見えます。</DIV> <DIV>馬もいますし、羊も牛もいます。</DIV> <DIV>見るのは無料ですが柵を超えて動物に触るのは違法になり結構重大かもしれないです。</DIV> <DIV>と、いうわけで私の目に写る日本の景色は「緑」しか思い浮かびませーん。</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>私、ドイツ行ったことありますー。</DIV> <DIV>楽しかったです:smileywink:</DIV> <DIV>観光地めぐりだったのでイメージ通りの町並みがあってー、お城があってー、ビールがあってー、ソーセージ（ ウィンナ？）があってー、バナナジュースとチョコチップクッキーをずっと食べながら観光しまし た。</DIV> <DIV>と、良い思い出ばかりのドイツは私の中でヨーロッパNo.1になっています。パチパチパチ</DIV> <DIV>日本が敗退した後のサッカーはドイツを応援しましたけど、残念でしたねー。</DIV> <DIV>あー、そうそう。その観光の途中でお城に入りましたが日本語ガイドブックが余裕で売っていたのがすごかった です。</DIV> <DIV>もちろん購入しまして、いまだに家宝です。</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Momochi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Lord Hirobumi Sathir wrote:<div>ドイツの方とコミュニケーションが取れるのはいいのですが、「お、英語だ。翻訳するの面倒だなー」となって おりましたので、ネタを振ってもらえてうれしいです。Niceです、エースMomochiさん 。</div> <div> </div> <div>私の実家もMomochiさんと同様田舎ですので、田んぼだらけですがちょっと目線を動かすと山も見えます 。山を子供の頃歩いて越えますと（10分ぐらいで横断できます）御陵牧場という牧場が見えて突然メルヘンワ ールドのようなでっかい平原が見えます。</div> <div>馬もいますし、羊も牛もいます。</div> <div>見るのは無料ですが柵を超えて動物に触るのは違法になり結構重大かもしれないです。</div> <div>と、いうわけで私の目に写る日本の景色は「緑」しか思い浮かびませーん。</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>私、ドイツ行ったことありますー。</div> <div>楽しかったです:smileywink:</div> <div>観光地めぐりだったのでイメージ通りの町並みがあってー、お城があってー、ビールがあってー、ソーセージ（ ウィンナ？）があってー、バナナジュースとチョコチップクッキーをずっと食べながら観光しまし た。</div> <div>と、良い思い出ばかりのドイツは私の中でヨーロッパNo.1になっています。パチパチパチ</div> <div>日本が敗退した後のサッカーはドイツを応援しましたけど、残念でしたねー。</div> <div>あー、そうそう。その観光の途中でお城に入りましたが日本語ガイドブックが余裕で売っていたのがすごかった です。</div> <div>もちろん購入しまして、いまだに家宝です。</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Here is translation:My hometown is in the country side so I imagine rice field and mountains. There is a farm about 10 mins walking and vast plain. There are horses, sheeps, and cows. So my image of Japan is "green".I have been to Germany and had fun<span>:smileywink:</span>. I did many sightseeings such as streets that I magined, castles, beers, sausages, banana juice, and chocolate chip cookies! Germany is number 1 among other European countries! I obtained a Japanese guide book at the castle and it's my treasure now.</div>

[Chamame]

Guten Tag, Vaiko<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vaiko wrote :<BR> <P>Is Haiku the game where your “next” word needs to start with the last phoneme of the word from the previous player?</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That game is called "Shiri-tori" not Haiku.:smileywink:<BR>Shiri-tori is also popular game in Japan, and kids often play it.</P> <P>Please refer to following page about Haiku.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=games&message.id=35883" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=games&message.id=35883</A><BR></P> <P>BTW, I like Brahms very much.  "Ein Deutsches Requiem" is my favorite.</P> <P> </P>

[Vaiko]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chamame wrote:<BR> <P>That game is called "Shiri-tori" not Haiku.:smileywink:<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN>こんにちは</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><BR>Ahh, thanks for the name of the other game :smileyhappy:</P>