Unrest: Harder than Castle Mistmoore?

[Zard]

<DIV>I love the fact that Castle Mistmoore is a challenging zone (for me) but was curious if anyone knew if the Estate of Unrest was intended to be more, less or the same challenging (relative to Castle Mistmoore)?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Margen]

<P>My guess is it will have tougher mobs, but likely in true sense be easier.  The thing I find difficult in MM is that the mobs respawn quickly and some have substantial agro range.</P> <P>UR is an instance from what I've heard and will not likely have the spawn issue.</P>

[Dasein]

Unrest is supposed to be very heavily scripted, like the original Nek Castle, so while I expect challenging fights, I think a good chunk of the difficulty will be figuring out the zone itself.<div></div>

[Zard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caswydian wrote:<BR>Unrest is supposed to be very heavily scripted, like the original Nek Castle, so while I expect challenging fights, I think a good chunk of the difficulty will be figuring out the zone itself.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That would definitely be worth waiting for!  :smileyhappy:</P> <P>I rarely raid and wish more group-oriented dungeons and instances would have scripted events and puzzles. Nektropos Castle was (is) great for its atmosphere and unique events. It was more like exploring a dungeon while playing D&D (or any FRPG) than a repetitive slay monster/loot treasure adventure.</P> <P> </P>

[Domiuk]

<P>2nd deathmutants comments.</P> <P>Nek castle was and probably still is the best instance in the game, more like it is good.</P> <P> </P>

[TwistedFaith]

Well I hope its not another zone like Nizara or Mistmoore where if you dont have crowd control you might as well not bother going.Before anyone pipes in with 'yeah well i've done nizara, with no healers yadda yadda yadda' both zones in my opinion are designed around having crowd control.Shame mezzers are so damm scarce

[iceriven2]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> valleyboy1 wrote:<BR>Well I hope its not another zone like Nizara or Mistmoore where if you dont have crowd control you might as well not bother going.<BR><BR>Before anyone pipes in with 'yeah well i've done nizara, with no healers yadda yadda yadda' both zones in my opinion are designed around having crowd control.<BR><BR>Shame mezzers are so damm scarce<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>wouldn't mind CC being a big facter if there were more chanters around.   Basically if you don't have a chanter in guild the lvl u need the likelyhood is so slim of getting in zone and completeing any thing worth is so low that i am more likely to reach lvl 100 first.   </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[HBP]

<DIV>The only thing tough bout CMM is the freaking lag.  YOu get more than one group in there and you get some horrible lag.  It's the lag that usually gets adds for us when my guild goes in there.</DIV>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>valleyboy1 wrote:Well I hope its not another zone like Nizara or Mistmoore where if you dont have crowd control you might as well not bother going.Before anyone pipes in with 'yeah well i've done nizara, with no healers yadda yadda yadda' both zones in my opinion are designed around having crowd control.Shame mezzers are so damm scarce<hr></blockquote>Or you could have other classes learn how to CC more effectively with the tools they already have. Have a Wizard? Learn how to root a mob away from you. There is so much CC already in this game, that people just think CC ooh gotta have a Enchanter to do CC. No, any mage can do CC if they try, but it's just every Mage who isn't an Enchanter pigeonholes themselves into being DPS-only, when in reality CC is the secondary Mage job, and every Mage has the ability to do it, Enchanters can just do it better.

[iceriven2]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> valleyboy1 wrote:<BR>Well I hope its not another zone like Nizara or Mistmoore where if you dont have crowd control you might as well not bother going.<BR><BR>Before anyone pipes in with 'yeah well i've done nizara, with no healers yadda yadda yadda' both zones in my opinion are designed around having crowd control.<BR><BR>Shame mezzers are so damm scarce<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Or you could have other classes learn how to CC more effectively with the tools they already have. Have a Wizard? Learn how to root a mob away from you. There is so much CC already in this game, that people just think CC ooh gotta have a Enchanter to do CC. No, any mage can do CC if they try, but it's just every Mage who isn't an Enchanter pigeonholes themselves into being DPS-only, when in reality CC is the secondary Mage job, and every Mage has the ability to do it, Enchanters can just do it better.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Your correct there is more CC in game then just mezing, just the problem becomes is there room to use other cc methods.   Dungoens are very hard to to use other motheds cuase you need lots of room to do it.  Take MM for example.  between social agro and repop rate doubt rooting would be the best thing to do.  I am No expert epecially since i haven/t been in these high lvl zones much but there too much i believe working against using other cc methods hence the reason even the most ubah of guild would perfer chanters above else.

[arieste]

<DIV>Nek castle was the best zone in game once upon a time, and CMM is the best zone in game now.  So a cross between those two would be a step in the right direction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nizara was interesting at the start, but honeslty, took too much time to do and very few of the drops were actually upgrades to the sort of gear that the people who went there had to start with.  CMM doesn't have this issue, a lot of the drops are excellent, unique and can be of benefit even to the best geared players. </DIV>

[Vorlak]

<DIV>I wonder if it will be the whole zone...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know the outside with the Deathbeatles or just the house.  I would love to have a raid instance as well with it, kind of like poets palace but without the massive hp on trash.</DIV>

[Xanrn]

<P>I only ever got to do Nek Castle when it was grey.</P> <P>Yes I hope Unrest isn't as hard as Niz or Castle Mistmoore. Not that I have ever actually stepped inside Niz.</P> <P>If it is heavily scripted make it so you have to it fully everytime, not once threw unlocks the whole place.</P>

[DobyMT]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> valleyboy1 wrote:<BR>Well I hope its not another zone like Nizara or Mistmoore where if you dont have crowd control you might as well not bother going.<BR><BR>Before anyone pipes in with 'yeah well i've done nizara, with no healers yadda yadda yadda' both zones in my opinion are designed around having crowd control.<BR><BR>Shame mezzers are so damm scarce<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Or you could have other classes learn how to CC more effectively with the tools they already have. Have a Wizard? Learn how to root a mob away from you. There is so much CC already in this game, that people just think CC ooh gotta have a Enchanter to do CC. No, any mage can do CC if they try, but it's just every Mage who isn't an Enchanter pigeonholes themselves into being DPS-only, when in reality CC is the secondary Mage job, and every Mage has the ability to do it, Enchanters can just do it better.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's how to fight in heroic instances with a brig, me, and a fury.  And that's too easy.  All mages should learn CC.  A Root, a Stun, a ghetto mez if you will.  It all goes a VERY long way.

[Nainitsuj]

I hope they do the hedge maze as a seperate zone.  Make the initial path to the estate a short run, but fill the rest of it with stuff to do and neat traps.

[Xentin]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:<div></div>I hope they do the hedge maze as a seperate zone.  Make the initial path to the estate a short run, but fill the rest of it with stuff to do and neat traps.<hr></blockquote><a href="http://eq2.warcry.com/scripts/news/view_news.phtml?site=68&id=67519" target=_blank>http://eq2.warcry.com/scripts/news/view_news.phtml?site=68&id=67519</a> the hedge is the same as before <span></span></div><p>Message Edited by Xentin on <span class=date_text>01-11-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:04 AM</span>

[Xanrn]

<DIV>What its not going to be an instance?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why the hell do we need another tier 7 open dungeon, the current ones barely get used as it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would much prefer a tier 7 Nek Castle, another instance in line with HoF, something that can't be blitzed in under an hour.</DIV>

[Zard]

It <EM>will</EM> be an instance contrary to what that article suggested.

[whytakemine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> iceriven2 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> valleyboy1 wrote:<BR>Well I hope its not another zone like Nizara or Mistmoore where if you dont have crowd control you might as well not bother going.<BR><BR>Before anyone pipes in with 'yeah well i've done nizara, with no healers yadda yadda yadda' both zones in my opinion are designed around having crowd control.<BR><BR>Shame mezzers are so damm scarce<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>wouldn't mind CC being a big facter if there were more chanters around.   Basically if you don't have a chanter in guild the lvl u need the likelyhood is so slim of getting in zone and completeing any thing worth is so low that i am more likely to reach lvl 100 first.  </P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Maybe there would be more mezzers if they were useful more often.  Between my assassin and my coercer, the only places where it's better to bring the coercer are nizara and mistmoore castle.  When Nizara came out I actually had to learn to mezz.  I'd used it so infrequently up to that point that I wasn't very efficient at it.</P> <P>Tons of classes get crowd control btw, it's just most don't learn to use it.  Ever notice how cheap the crowd control masters are for non-chanter classes?</P>

[Manyak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> whytakemine wrote: <P>Tons of classes get crowd control btw, it's just most don't learn to use it.  Ever notice how cheap the crowd control masters are for non-chanter classes?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yeah, and then the enchanter's mezz is priced at 20pp cuz they think its actually used just cuz were called "enchatners"

[Angelow]

<P>I would like to beg for the love of christ to make unrest very challenging but intended to be done without a coercer/illusionist.  I personally have finished all of the single group content except cmm and niz, because I can rarely find a crowd controller on my server.  We have gotten several item firsts in cmm for the single group content the few times I have gotten a crowd control class to come with me, but finding one sucks.  Please SOE dont make the harder zones hard because of finding super rare classes to go with you.</P> <P>Different subject-  I personally have seen "ghetto" mezzs by other classes before, and they work ok in most zones, I honestly do not think it would work in cmm due to the insanely fast respawn rates you get in there, the agro through a wall syndrome, the "we dont believe in a z axis in certain portions" syndrome, and the large agro radius or most encounters.  You have no where to place your ghetto mez mobs really.  The only class capable of doing it besides a true cc class might be a trouby...... good thing they are way more common then cc classes huh.............</P> <P> </P> <P>- Ugmar 70sk Venekor</P>

[Jvaloth]

<P>Personally I hope they make Unrest a very large zone and very difficult.   Tired of the 20 minute and done instances.  I want a dungeon crawl, I want a challenge.  I miss EQ 1 style dungeons that were massive and the deeper you went in, the more risky it was.</P> <P> </P> <P>Requiring a chanter or a very resourceful group make up would be an absolute plus.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Jvaloth on <span class=date_text>01-16-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:30 AM</span>

[Xanrn]

<DIV>Requiring a Certain class is not a bloody plus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tank+Healer+4 whatever.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Making it so it requires a good group and can't be stumbled through half arsed yes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Making it so you require a certain class, is a damm stupid idea.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know lets make it so you can't even zone in unless you have a Brawler, yeah that will be great.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or only a Warrior can tank, cause the mobs get +1k dmg per hit on any other class.</DIV>

[steelbadger]

By no means do you need crowd control in CMM.I always think of chanters as a failsafe, if someone screws up a chanter can fix it.  If you have a group of people that know what they are doing you don't need a chanter.I like CMM a lot, I spent about 4-5 hours there yesterday, it is the ONLY heroic zone in the game that our tank really enjoys, everything else he finds too easy.<div></div>

[Tyrion]

<DIV>A zone is only as hard as its walkthrough makes it out to be. Or in other words...it'll be hard for a week. Only real challenge in <EM>my</EM> eyes is x2 Mistmoor Castle, some of Nizara, and some harder raid mobs in the game.</DIV>

[Zard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> steelbadger wrote:<BR>By no means do you need crowd control in CMM.<BR><BR>I always think of chanters as a failsafe, if someone screws up a chanter can fix it.  If you have a group of people that know what they are doing you don't need a chanter.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>As a 70 Illusionist I <STRONG>agree</STRONG> with the above poster, you don't <EM>need</EM> an enchanter but they are helpful and an insurance policy against accidents. I've been to Mistmoore Castle several times and on more than one occassion asked only to mez unexpected adds -- usually if there's a Warlock, Conjuror or Swashbuckler in the group. Careful pulling works 95% of the time but sometimes a patrol wanders by suddenly and, without an enchanter, it usually means a wipe. Castle Mistmoore is a painful place to wipe -- or evac -- in because it respawns quickly and many mobs see through invis or steatlh so it is hard to get back to where you were.

[Mildavyn]

<DIV>A troubador can quite nicely be the mezzer for Nizara and CMM. The only problem is finding one. On venekor there are exactly 7 active t7 troubadors (or so I'm told)</DIV>

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>Mildavyn wrote:<DIV>A troubador can quite nicely be the mezzer for Nizara and CMM. The only problem is finding one. On venekor there are exactly 7 active t7 troubadors (or so I'm told)</DIV><hr></blockquote>[Removed for Content], omg if that stat is true then it just illustrates one of my main concerns about support classes and how nobody wants to play them.

[Angelow]

<P>Loan me your gear and maybe I wont need a chanter.  I currently have no raid level gear, so for me to tank mm castle without a chanter is nearly impossible.  I have done clean pulls on every pull for up to 5 hour runs..... they can still spike too high for me to survive without a chanter of some type mezzing the encouter from a 3 or 4 mob pull down to a 1 mob at a time fight.  Not everyone in this game has a perfect set of gear, yeah yeah yeah, so i shouldnt be there im sure will be your reply.  Not everyone is in or has the option to be in a raiding guild.  Single group instances should not require that I have a chanter to do them with good tactics/strategy just because my gear is only what can be obtained in single group instances.  Make unrest hard.... make it twice as long as HoF, that sounds great.  Make it a [Removed for Content] epic event to run one of the instances...... awesome, im sick of the 30 min instance runs anyway.  Do NOT make it so that I must get an enchanter to play.</P> <P>If we are going to make a class required do me a favor and give SK's a buff that makes them immune to Harm Touch, then start giving random trash mobs and bosses HT please.... k........ thanks.</P> <P> </P> <P>-Ugmar 70 sk Venekor</P>

[Margen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Angelow wrote:<BR> <P>Loan me your gear and maybe I wont need a chanter.  I currently have no raid level gear, so for me to tank mm castle without a chanter is nearly impossible.  I have done clean pulls on every pull for up to 5 hour runs..... they can still spike too high for me to survive without a chanter of some type mezzing the encouter from a 3 or 4 mob pull down to a 1 mob at a time fight.  Not everyone in this game has a perfect set of gear, yeah yeah yeah, so i shouldnt be there im sure will be your reply.  Not everyone is in or has the option to be in a raiding guild.  Single group instances should not require that I have a chanter to do them with good tactics/strategy just because my gear is only what can be obtained in single group instances.  Make unrest hard.... make it twice as long as HoF, that sounds great.  Make it a [Removed for Content] epic event to run one of the instances...... awesome, im sick of the 30 min instance runs anyway.  Do NOT make it so that I must get an enchanter to play.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>If we are going to make a class required do me a favor and give SK's a buff that makes them immune to Harm Touch, then start giving random trash mobs and bosses HT please.... k........ thanks.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>-Ugmar 70 sk Venekor</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hehe, that would REALLY tick warriors off, would love it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ChaosUndivided]

CMM can be tanked absolutely fine in Legendary and Group Obtainable Gear with no enchanter. If you don't have said gear, go gear up! simple! it's called progression <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Judist]

<P>Yes, things can be done. We all know they have been. But the fact is, a chanter in Nizara or CMM is a smart choice. Fact is if you have a chanter your gonna want to bring him. Fact is chanters make CMM possible for the majority of non-raiders to go deep. </P> <P>Everyone can spew out comments like "it can be done without <insert class here>" but the facts remain the same. It was a zone made with chanters in mind. Dont think for a second that the devs didnt realize this.</P> <P>They "knew" this when they created it. Same with Nizara. They balanced encounter mob DPS so that a top-end group of players will have a fun time taking the entire encounter on at once, doable if you stay on your toes. That was the hook, something for raiders to do when not raiding. Something <U>not</U> easy or boring. And with this in mind they figured chanters would do fine for everyone else, greatly reducing incoming DPS via crowd control. Heck, thats why they are in game.</P> <P>And the comments about groups who only have legendary gear "being fine without a chanter". Thats BS. After the nerf of most KoS legendary items, the gear available is not that great. In fact the only on-par legendary items now are the class sets, in which the legs and chest pieces that drop in "gasp" CMM. Its simply not that great for taking on a crapload of ^^^ 74's or 75's that hit like trucks.</P> <P>Thats the truth. Take a casual/non-raider/legendary tank into CMM without a chanter and your gonna need 3 healers to do what 1 chanter can... mitigate damage meant for high-end players. Without a chanter your gonna have a very hard time getting deep in CMM wearing HoF tank gear mixed with a few EoF pieces.</P> <P>And thats the point they are making with Unrest. Find a way to make it difficult for everyone across the board without the need for a specific class. Personally, I think it cant be done. If you design an instance with pleasing raiders or "top-tier" players in mind, the rest will have to use crowd-control classes. Sad maybe, but atleast it can be done that way.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by BeatinGuts on <span class=date_text>01-18-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:38 AM</span>

[Zelkova]

I hope Unrest is just as difficult, with a lot less lag! (so.. easier)<div></div>

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Angelow wrote:<BR> <P>Loan me your gear and maybe I wont need a chanter.  I currently have no raid level gear, so for me to tank mm castle without a chanter is nearly impossible.  I have done clean pulls on every pull for up to 5 hour runs..... they can still spike too high for me to survive without a chanter of some type mezzing the encouter from a 3 or 4 mob pull down to a 1 mob at a time fight.  Not everyone in this game has a perfect set of gear, yeah yeah yeah, so i shouldnt be there im sure will be your reply.  Not everyone is in or has the option to be in a raiding guild.  Single group instances should not require that I have a chanter to do them with good tactics/strategy just because my gear is only what can be obtained in single group instances.  Make unrest hard.... make it twice as long as HoF, that sounds great.  Make it a [Removed for Content] epic event to run one of the instances...... awesome, im sick of the 30 min instance runs anyway.  Do NOT make it so that I must get an enchanter to play.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>If we are going to make a class required do me a favor and give SK's a buff that makes them immune to Harm Touch, then start giving random trash mobs and bosses HT please.... k........ thanks.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>-Ugmar 70 sk Venekor</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hehe, that would REALLY tick warriors off, would love it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have better idea - make the encounters 4-6 ^^ mobs that are immune to Mezz and charm. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I agree that if SOE makes zone with some class in mind, they should make other zones with other classes in mind.</P> <P>Another idea, make ^^^ 75 single mobs with very few HPs but the hit like epics, again immune to stun/stifle/mezz/root/etc. Make it so you need 3 healers and 2 tanks.</P> <P>Now Seriously, I am in full legendary with 80% masters. 2 healers and 1 chanter are a must in CMM.</P> <P>The issue here is the same as it was in KOS after the initial 2 months, as raiders get geared out in fabled gear (or already were but get to change gear choices with different drops) it trivializes the group content. These said raiders then complain that the group stuff is too easy or they can do x without y that regular groups need. What is the answer to this? I do not know because either way 1 group is going to complain. Maybe a zone like Split Paw where the mobs scale to your groups' gear in the answer. Maybe a zone or two that are extremely difficult that have limited nice drops (only go for the challenge) but give a status item or something. Maybe the answer is random spawns and repop rates, so you can get lucky and get through an area easily one time, but not the next.</P> <P>I see CMM as a bridge between people who group and those that raid regularly. My hope is that Unrest continues this bridge as I want to feel I accomplished something after finally clearing the zone, but still be able to clear the zone in legendary gear.<BR></P>

[joeygopher]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Angelow wrote:<BR> <P>Loan me your gear and maybe I wont need a chanter.  I currently have no raid level gear, so for me to tank mm castle without a chanter is nearly impossible.  I have done clean pulls on every pull for up to 5 hour runs..... they can still spike too high for me to survive without a chanter of some type mezzing the encouter from a 3 or 4 mob pull down to a 1 mob at a time fight.  Not everyone in this game has a perfect set of gear, yeah yeah yeah, so i shouldnt be there im sure will be your reply.  Not everyone is in or has the option to be in a raiding guild.  Single group instances should not require that I have a chanter to do them with good tactics/strategy just because my gear is only what can be obtained in single group instances.  Make unrest hard.... make it twice as long as HoF, that sounds great.  Make it a [Removed for Content] epic event to run one of the instances...... awesome, im sick of the 30 min instance runs anyway.  Do NOT make it so that I must get an enchanter to play.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>If we are going to make a class required do me a favor and give SK's a buff that makes them immune to Harm Touch, then start giving random trash mobs and bosses HT please.... k........ thanks.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>-Ugmar 70 sk Venekor</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hehe, that would REALLY tick warriors off, would love it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have better idea - make the encounters 4-6 ^^ mobs that are immune to Mezz and charm. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I agree that if SOE makes zone with some class in mind, they should make other zones with other classes in mind.</P> <P>Another idea, make ^^^ 75 single mobs with very few HPs but the hit like epics, again immune to stun/stifle/mezz/root/etc. Make it so you need 3 healers and 2 tanks.</P> <P>Now Seriously, I am in full legendary with 80% masters. 2 healers and 1 chanter are a must in CMM.</P> <P>The issue here is the same as it was in KOS after the initial 2 months, as raiders get geared out in fabled gear (or already were but get to change gear choices with different drops) it trivializes the group content. These said raiders then complain that the group stuff is too easy or they can do x without y that regular groups need. What is the answer to this? I do not know because either way 1 group is going to complain. Maybe a zone like Split Paw where the mobs scale to your groups' gear in the answer. Maybe a zone or two that are extremely difficult that have limited nice drops (only go for the challenge) but give a status item or something. Maybe the answer is random spawns and repop rates, so you can get lucky and get through an area easily one time, but not the next.</P> <P>I see CMM as a bridge between people who group and those that raid regularly. My hope is that Unrest continues this bridge as I want to feel I accomplished something after finally clearing the zone, but still be able to clear the zone in legendary gear.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm a 70 SK - 76 AA's, full decent lengedary gear and mostly masters with the rest adept 3.  And 3 healers was JUST enough to keep me standing in CMM with no enchanter - and thats with me using every trick I have to heal and protect myself.  And with 4 of 6 people concentrating on keeping the tank alive, that left 2 trying to kill mobs fast enough so we didn't fall victim to repop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this zone really designed with legendary gear in mind?</DIV>

[DobyMT]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> joeygopher wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Angelow wrote:<BR> <P>Loan me your gear and maybe I wont need a chanter.  I currently have no raid level gear, so for me to tank mm castle without a chanter is nearly impossible.  I have done clean pulls on every pull for up to 5 hour runs..... they can still spike too high for me to survive without a chanter of some type mezzing the encouter from a 3 or 4 mob pull down to a 1 mob at a time fight.  Not everyone in this game has a perfect set of gear, yeah yeah yeah, so i shouldnt be there im sure will be your reply.  Not everyone is in or has the option to be in a raiding guild.  Single group instances should not require that I have a chanter to do them with good tactics/strategy just because my gear is only what can be obtained in single group instances.  Make unrest hard.... make it twice as long as HoF, that sounds great.  Make it a [Removed for Content] epic event to run one of the instances...... awesome, im sick of the 30 min instance runs anyway.  Do NOT make it so that I must get an enchanter to play.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>If we are going to make a class required do me a favor and give SK's a buff that makes them immune to Harm Touch, then start giving random trash mobs and bosses HT please.... k........ thanks.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>-Ugmar 70 sk Venekor</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hehe, that would REALLY tick warriors off, would love it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have better idea - make the encounters 4-6 ^^ mobs that are immune to Mezz and charm. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I agree that if SOE makes zone with some class in mind, they should make other zones with other classes in mind.</P> <P>Another idea, make ^^^ 75 single mobs with very few HPs but the hit like epics, again immune to stun/stifle/mezz/root/etc. Make it so you need 3 healers and 2 tanks.</P> <P>Now Seriously, I am in full legendary with 80% masters. 2 healers and 1 chanter are a must in CMM.</P> <P>The issue here is the same as it was in KOS after the initial 2 months, as raiders get geared out in fabled gear (or already were but get to change gear choices with different drops) it trivializes the group content. These said raiders then complain that the group stuff is too easy or they can do x without y that regular groups need. What is the answer to this? I do not know because either way 1 group is going to complain. Maybe a zone like Split Paw where the mobs scale to your groups' gear in the answer. Maybe a zone or two that are extremely difficult that have limited nice drops (only go for the challenge) but give a status item or something. Maybe the answer is random spawns and repop rates, so you can get lucky and get through an area easily one time, but not the next.</P> <P>I see CMM as a bridge between people who group and those that raid regularly. My hope is that Unrest continues this bridge as I want to feel I accomplished something after finally clearing the zone, but still be able to clear the zone in legendary gear.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm a 70 SK - 76 AA's, full decent lengedary gear and mostly masters with the rest adept 3.  And 3 healers was JUST enough to keep me standing in CMM with no enchanter - and thats with me using every trick I have to heal and protect myself.  And with 4 of 6 people concentrating on keeping the tank alive, that left 2 trying to kill mobs fast enough so we didn't fall victim to repop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this zone really designed with legendary gear in mind?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/shrug.  Its all in the healers then, cause I've been with a tank, a healer, and 3 others.  I think we had a Wiz, an Assassin, me, and a Warlock or a Necro can't remember now.  But we just breeze through CMM when we wanna.</P> <P>Oh, and the Tank was a Guardian, and the healer a Mystic.<BR></P>

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DobyMT wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> joeygopher wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Angelow wrote:<BR> <P>Loan me your gear and maybe I wont need a chanter.  I currently have no raid level gear, so for me to tank mm castle without a chanter is nearly impossible.  I have done clean pulls on every pull for up to 5 hour runs..... they can still spike too high for me to survive without a chanter of some type mezzing the encouter from a 3 or 4 mob pull down to a 1 mob at a time fight.  Not everyone in this game has a perfect set of gear, yeah yeah yeah, so i shouldnt be there im sure will be your reply.  Not everyone is in or has the option to be in a raiding guild.  Single group instances should not require that I have a chanter to do them with good tactics/strategy just because my gear is only what can be obtained in single group instances.  Make unrest hard.... make it twice as long as HoF, that sounds great.  Make it a [Removed for Content] epic event to run one of the instances...... awesome, im sick of the 30 min instance runs anyway.  Do NOT make it so that I must get an enchanter to play.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>If we are going to make a class required do me a favor and give SK's a buff that makes them immune to Harm Touch, then start giving random trash mobs and bosses HT please.... k........ thanks.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>-Ugmar 70 sk Venekor</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hehe, that would REALLY tick warriors off, would love it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have better idea - make the encounters 4-6 ^^ mobs that are immune to Mezz and charm. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I agree that if SOE makes zone with some class in mind, they should make other zones with other classes in mind.</P> <P>Another idea, make ^^^ 75 single mobs with very few HPs but the hit like epics, again immune to stun/stifle/mezz/root/etc. Make it so you need 3 healers and 2 tanks.</P> <P>Now Seriously, I am in full legendary with 80% masters. 2 healers and 1 chanter are a must in CMM.</P> <P>The issue here is the same as it was in KOS after the initial 2 months, as raiders get geared out in fabled gear (or already were but get to change gear choices with different drops) it trivializes the group content. These said raiders then complain that the group stuff is too easy or they can do x without y that regular groups need. What is the answer to this? I do not know because either way 1 group is going to complain. Maybe a zone like Split Paw where the mobs scale to your groups' gear in the answer. Maybe a zone or two that are extremely difficult that have limited nice drops (only go for the challenge) but give a status item or something. Maybe the answer is random spawns and repop rates, so you can get lucky and get through an area easily one time, but not the next.</P> <P>I see CMM as a bridge between people who group and those that raid regularly. My hope is that Unrest continues this bridge as I want to feel I accomplished something after finally clearing the zone, but still be able to clear the zone in legendary gear.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm a 70 SK - 76 AA's, full decent lengedary gear and mostly masters with the rest adept 3.  And 3 healers was JUST enough to keep me standing in CMM with no enchanter - and thats with me using every trick I have to heal and protect myself.  And with 4 of 6 people concentrating on keeping the tank alive, that left 2 trying to kill mobs fast enough so we didn't fall victim to repop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this zone really designed with legendary gear in mind?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/shrug.  <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>Its all in the healers then</FONT></STRONG>, cause I've been with a tank, a healer, and 3 others.  I think we had a Wiz, an Assassin, me, and a Warlock or a Necro can't remember now.  But we just breeze through CMM when we wanna.</P> <P>Oh, and the Tank was a Guardian, and the healer a Mystic.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have to agree with this one. This past week our normal group has gone and done some old KoS zones like nest and Den. I pull crazy in these zones and we nuke everything down with 5 in the group. The last 2 days our regular healer (a 70 fury) has not been on and we have substituted a couple of our guild raid healers (one Inquis and 1 templar) separately. Guess what, I can not pull the same amount of mobs even if I switch into full defense.</P> <P>Is CMM for the "perfect group"? The answer is yes if all the players are mainly legendary and above average players. As I stated previously, if the group is mainly Fabled, then the difficulty is reduce significantly.</P> <P>I am still trying to get a guild group together to go in here for a good run (3-4 hours) so I have only PUG experience in CMM to go off of. So take my comments as somewhat generalization (and dont flame plz).<BR></P>

[Mgunner]

I personally would like to see a pretty difficult version of Unrest, however, for the good of the game, I would like to also have an easier version. If this dungeon is going to be very cool, I would like everyone have an equal shot at seeing the content. Maybe the old, easy and hard version, with different loot tables.

[Manyak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mgunner wrote:<BR> I personally would like to see a pretty difficult version of Unrest, however, for the good of the game, I would like to also have an easier version. If this dungeon is going to be very cool, I would like everyone have an equal shot at seeing the content. Maybe the old, easy and hard version, with different loot tables.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>if they do that its gonna end up like poets palace, where "difficult" just means mobs with more HP

[tracheaspider]

<P>I do CMM on a very regular basis with a SK tank (in mostly legendary + a few fabled), two healers (me on my warden and usually a cleric -- haven't personally tried it with a shammy yet), lots of DPS and <EM>no chanter</EM>.  Our biggest problem is the timing of repops, but otherwise we do pretty well.  We get better and better the more we know and can predict the repops.  Basement door to sage room is total cake now.  We've survived adds numerous times and survive sometimes when one healer goes down mid-battle.  We've rotated out pretty much every group member except the tank, too, with minimal impact on effectiveness.</P> <P>I don't think success there is dependent on only one class or on uber gear, I think it depends on having people who are good at their role in every slot.  Chanters can make up for slackers or spazzes, but they're not <EM>necessary</EM> if you just don't bring slackers or spazzes along in the first place.  So what makes CMM "hard" is that it requires really good gameplay.  Healing there, I often have to use my entire arsenal of spells and I have to stay 2 steps ahead of the situation.  For that reason I love the zone.</P> <P>And I hope to heck Unrest is just as engaging.</P>