Please Fix Deathtoll Zone-in

[Twoboxer2]

<DIV>It's well known that zoning into Deathtoll is likely to be a disaster, and has been for a long time. One or more Eyes will frequently aggro people who have zoned in and have NOT moved, often wiping the raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, it can sometimes be avoided by blind luck, or by repeatedly sending in a single sacrificial toon until you get an instance with reasonable pathing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But is this the way you intend for us to play the game?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This zone has had this bug since it's creation. The fix is simple. Don't you think it's time you got around to it?</DIV>

[Lariu]

<DIV>It's always been like that. It doesn't need fixing.</DIV>

[dave143256384]

agreed its not a bug or problem and i feel just adds to the risk of the zone, besides the odd wipe here and there keeps u on your toes :smileytongue:

[Raeyel]

To say it doesn't need fixing is fairly ridiculous. Any zone that you can load into and die before even realizing what happened is not designed properly in my OPINION. I'm all for making it difficult or requiring a clever strategy or solving a puzzle but none of those things apply here. It is as the first poster said: simply a matter of getting the right instance, in other words dumb luck. Does is totally mess up the experience in the zone? No, and the raid can leave and repair before moving out of the first room if need be. It IS, however, very annoying and should be unnecessary. <div></div>

[Hazeroth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dave143256384 wrote:<BR> agreed its not a bug or problem and i feel just adds to the risk of the zone, besides the odd wipe here and there keeps u on your toes :smileytongue:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Remember in the the Movie, "Saving Private Ryan" when that troop carrier landed on the beach head and the front door opened?</P> <P>As the soldiers tried to get out the machine gun nest opened up on them and mowed them down.</P> <P>Well the DT beach head is like that, maybe you land infront of a machine gun and maybe not. </P> <P>And not everyone has FD like the "Captain" had. </P> <P>-------------------</P> <P>Monk zones in and thinks  "Ah hell 6 people are dead and dying, time to FD."</P> <P> "Eyaahhh." <falls to the gound></P> <P>Cleric zones in and gets emediately stomped into the ground at the monks feet.</P> <P>"Is it safe to revive?" Asks someone from the raid.</P> <P>"I don't know I can't see the Floating eye" Says the monk.</P> <P>"Well stand up and see what happens", says the Cleric.</P> <P>"Hell no, you revive and find out, I'm good where I am." replies the monk.</P> <P><Cleric Revives></P> <P><SLAM> Cleric has been killed by zone line camper.</P> <P>Monk says "Ha Ha, u suk, you Newb."</P> <P>Cleric replies "Shut it"</P> <P>2 minutes pass...</P> <P>Raid member asks, "Is is safe to revive now?"</P> <P>Monk asks "Remember when the cleric asked that question? Well the answer is still the same."</P> <P><Random person revives> </P> <P><SLAM> Random newb get's pwn by zone camper.</P> <P>Monk says "Nope, looks like it isn't..."</P> <P>Monk says "Well, looks like you got a few seconds to zone out after you revive, better be on your toes. As for me? I can watch this all day."</P>

[KBern]

<P>You won't get adds if people zone in and actually listen to what they need to do.</P> <P>Zone in, and move back towards wall.</P> <P>Everyone is safe until the pull.  Oh and go into 1st person too and watch where you click.  Another large complaint about this zone in that is totally avoidable.</P>

[Roriondesexiest]

What's up with all the DT hate lately, the zone in has always been that way. Does seem kind of silly just because you can zone in and back out until you get a good zone where the eye isn't on top of the door though would rather have them fix any of the other issues with raids i.e. crashing, lag, etc before they fix something that can be avoided. <div></div>

[Hazeroth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <P>You won't get adds if people zone in and actually listen to what they need to do.</P> <P>Zone in, and move back towards wall.</P> <P>Everyone is safe until the pull.  Oh and go into 1st person too and watch where you click.  Another large complaint about this zone in that is totally avoidable.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The fact that you say move back towards the wall after zoning in signifies that you agree that when you zone in you either are or soon will be in range of agro.</P> <P>One or the other. Meaning there is a chance that when you zone in you may already be in range of agro.</P> <P>Add in the the random location assigned to new entries into the zone near the zone line makes for a truely random hit or miss.</P>

[KBern]

<P>No actually i say move back because it many peoples tendancy to dance around or move some when they are standing around waiting for a raid.</P> <P>It makes mistakes much less likely if people move to the wall.</P> <P>You can zone in and stand there, which I have many times, and have yet to wipe on zone in.  We have done DT more times than I can count also.</P>

[Hazeroth]

<P>Same here.</P> <P>I agree that most of the time you can enter without much hassle.</P> <P>But on those few rare occations it can truely get messy.</P> <P>Last time our raid did the zone we we had to leave because after the raid wiped and people started to revive and move back, the eye would appear and smack them down, over and over again, finally we got fed up and zoned out for repairs. And still some people got killed after they revived before they could click on the zone out.</P> <P>We too follow that rule of thumb, where you zone in, get back and wait for the whole raid to complety enter.</P> <P>I'ld Say it's about a 1 in 10 chance zone line mob will be close enough to be an issue.</P> <P>But still that does mean you have a 9 in 10 chance that you can safely zone in and get your back against the wall.</P><p>Message Edited by Hazeroth on <span class=date_text>12-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:46 AM</span>

[Jayad]

<P>It's broken and needs to be fixed.  Just because you're used to it doesn't mean it's working right. </P> <P>I don't really care about the zone-in, but if you wipe and have that happen it sucks.  After your first named, you have a lockout and can't just zone out and back in.  It's been a while since we wiped in it and had to revive but we did have the eyeball killing the revivers happen a few times back in the day, and it can still happen.</P>

[Urglu]

<DIV>Everyone who posted saying it's fine should be banned from posting on this site forever.  Seriously you're either too stupid to have such rights any longer or you're too much of an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Take your pick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because you've learned to deal with it doesn't mean it isn't terribly constructed in it's present form. </DIV>

[clamdiper]

<div></div>Nothing broke about it. Sure it be nice to have a zone-in where people could kick their feet up, bounce around, dance or FD their buds. But it is a high-end raid zone, when people pay attention there are no deaths at zone-in. IF your raid isn't all there and you have AFKers when you decide to enter, well not much SOE can do about that. Remember when you zone-in you move to the back and make sure no one zones out; although that isn't really an issue 'cause you don't have a lockout yet. P.S. If they eye is killing revivers then someone is agroing the mob to zone. Might find out who and talk to them. <blockquote><hr>Xney wrote:<div></div> <p>It's broken and needs to be fixed.  Just because you're used to it doesn't mean it's working right. </p> <p>I don't really care about the zone-in, but if you wipe and have that happen it sucks.  After your first named, you have a lockout and can't just zone out and back in.  It's been a while since we wiped in it and had to revive but we did have the eyeball killing the revivers happen a few times back in the day, and it can still happen.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Message Edited by clamdiper on <span class=date_text>12-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:46 AM</span>

[Urglu]

BS, BS, BS.  I have watched people pop in the zone in range of the roaming gazer and be agro'd before they have the ability to move.  <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> clamdiper wrote:<BR>Nothing broke about it. Sure it be nice to have a zone-in where people could kick their feet up, bounce around, dance or FD their buds. But it is a high-end raid zone, when people pay attention there are no deaths at zone-in. IF your raid isn't all there and you have AFKers when you decide to enter, well not much SOE can do about that. Remember when you zone-in you move to the back and make sure no one zones out; although that isn't really an issue 'cause you don't have a lockout yet.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Urglunt wrote:<BR> <DIV>Everyone who posted saying it's fine should be banned from posting on this site forever.  Seriously you're either too stupid to have such rights any longer or you're too much of an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Take your pick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because you've learned to deal with it doesn't mean it isn't terribly constructed in it's present form.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes of course, the voice if intelligence and reason right there.  I am sorry that some of us can deal with a little bit of a challenge, and find it refreshing.</P> <P>Labs and Lockjaw are always on option for you if zoning into DT is too challenging.</P>

[Jayad]

You can't always move back.  You have to be able to move back!  I have seen them kill people before they loaded up their screen on revive.

[Urglu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Urglunt wrote:<BR> <DIV>Everyone who posted saying it's fine should be banned from posting on this site forever.  Seriously you're either too stupid to have such rights any longer or you're too much of an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Take your pick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because you've learned to deal with it doesn't mean it isn't terribly constructed in it's present form.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes of course, the voice if intelligence and reason right there.  I am sorry that some of us can deal with a little bit of a challenge, and find it refreshing.</P> <P>Labs and Lockjaw are always on option for you if zoning into DT is too challenging.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You find it refreshing that when you zone into DT there's a chance you will be killed before you're done loading? That's what you're saying....you do realize that, right?  Thank you for proving my point.  

[KBern]

<P>You ever play EQ1 and raid the Plane of Fear?</P> <P>At least this time, you can actually get your body back.</P>

[clamdiper]

Then you haven't been watching. When raiders pay attention they won't agro the Draogs nor the Eye when they either zone-in or revive. I have watched people agro the eye only because they zone in and stand there like a bump on a log. And it is a rare case. BTW get some butterfly totems, take a sip and watch for the eye ya can't see, he is the one which normaly bites ya. <blockquote><hr>Urglunt wrote:<div></div>BS, BS, BS.  I have watched people pop in the zone in range of the roaming gazer and be agro'd before they have the ability to move.  <blockquote> <hr> clamdiper wrote:Nothing broke about it. Sure it be nice to have a zone-in where people could kick their feet up, bounce around, dance or FD their buds. But it is a high-end raid zone, when people pay attention there are no deaths at zone-in. IF your raid isn't all there and you have AFKers when you decide to enter, well not much SOE can do about that. Remember when you zone-in you move to the back and make sure no one zones out; although that isn't really an issue 'cause you don't have a lockout yet.</blockquote><hr></blockquote><div></div>

[clamdiper]

<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> now there was a zone-in from hell. <div></div>

[clamdiper]

<div></div>P.S. You have an issues with dying on raids, even IF it is at zone-in, something you can take 2 mins and a trip to Crash for a fast repair, then maybe you shouldn't raid those zones. About the only thing which is annoying about DT zone-line is the ease on which you can zone out. Other than that I see nothing to fix and have raided it many times now. <p>Message Edited by clamdiper on <span class=date_text>12-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 PM</span>

[Jayad]

<DIV>I don't care about dying.  It's b.s. that you can die *before loading*, through no fault of your own.  That's not challenging, it's just stupid. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if you have to revive after killing a named, there's no repair trip FTW.</DIV>

[clamdiper]

<div></div>I have never myself, nor have I seen a fellow guildy die from zoning into Deathtoll. I have seen people zone in, stand there a min before going, "Oh I should look at the screen" then get attacked. They learn fast that you have to all be ready outside and move back directly. Trust me, it isn’t slow zoners, I am one such, it isn't slow puters, I have an old AMD. It is inattentiveness, something which well kill a raid no mater where in DT they are. I am sure and am willing to give you that occasionally it may happen a zoner gets killed outright, but it is rare and all the raid needs to do is zone out, get repaired and start anew. Now for the real biter; more than likely SOE isn't even going to put this on their priority fix-list. I hope they don't, there are many more important bugs to fix IMO. <p>Message Edited by clamdiper on <span class=date_text>12-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 PM</span>

[Jayad]

<P>Which part isn't clear..... that it DOES happen before you finish loading sometimes (I have seen it), or that it can happen even after you kill a named and revive where you can't just go and repair  (I have seen that, too)?    </P> <P>Whether or not it has happened to you personally, it does occur, and it is a problem.  You should not die while zoning anywhere, ever.  The reason mobs aren't supposed to be at the zone-ins is because nobody zones instantly, not even if you have a fast computer.  If you enjoy the adrenaline rush, then go try to train some eyeballs in DT on your own.</P>

[clamdiper]

<div></div><div></div>Then bug it. BTW, you have your entire raid revive if they wipe after they killed Yitzi? Hell we have one toon run back who can see stealth/invis with ress objects, why have the raid revive at all? <a href="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/eq2_loot.php?BrowseNPC=1&Add=target&exp_id=6&pack_id=12&zone_id=62&target_id=191" target="_blank"></a><blockquote><hr>Xney wrote:<div></div> <p>Which part isn't clear..... that it DOES happen before you finish loading sometimes (I have seen it), or that it can happen even after you kill a named and revive where you can't just go and repair  (I have seen that, too)?    </p> <p>Whether or not it has happened to you personally, it does occur, and it is a problem.  You should not die while zoning anywhere, ever.  The reason mobs aren't supposed to be at the zone-ins is because nobody zones instantly, not even if you have a fast computer.  If you enjoy the adrenaline rush, then go try to train some eyeballs in DT on your own.</p><hr></blockquote><div></div><p>Message Edited by clamdiper on <span class="date_text">12-14-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:53 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by clamdiper on <span class=date_text>12-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:53 PM</span>

[Jayad]

Sometimes you wipe in bad places.

[Tazr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Urglunt wrote:<BR> <DIV>Everyone who posted saying it's fine should be banned from posting on this site forever.  Seriously you're either too stupid to have such rights any longer or you're too much of an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Take your pick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because you've learned to deal with it doesn't mean it isn't terribly constructed in it's present form.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes of course, the voice if intelligence and reason right there.  I am sorry that some of us can deal with a little bit of a challenge, and find it refreshing.</P> <P>Labs and Lockjaw are always on option for you if zoning into DT is too challenging.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Your as dumb as these stupid swear filters.</P> <P>On to the main point.  There is no challenge in luck.  Playing russian roulette on zoning in or wiping, is luck.  Having 1 person zone in before hand to check the instance is "Clean", is stupid, again, NO challenge, more luck.  Yes it does need to be fixed, but there are plenty of other things to fix first.</P><p>Message Edited by Tazric on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:35 AM</span>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tazric wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Urglunt wrote:<BR> <DIV>Everyone who posted saying it's fine should be banned from posting on this site forever.  Seriously you're either too stupid to have such rights any longer or you're too much of an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Take your pick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because you've learned to deal with it doesn't mean it isn't terribly constructed in it's present form.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes of course, the voice if intelligence and reason right there.  I am sorry that some of us can deal with a little bit of a challenge, and find it refreshing.</P> <P>Labs and Lockjaw are always on option for you if zoning into DT is too challenging.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Your as dumb as these stupid swear filters.</P> <P>On to the main point.  There is no challenge in luck.  Playing russian roulette on zoning in or wiping, is luck.  Having 1 person zone in before hand to check the instance is "Clean", is stupid, again, NO challenge, more luck.  Yes it does need to be fixed, but there are plenty of other things to fix first.</P> <P>Message Edited by Tazric on <SPAN class=date_text>12-15-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:35 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>LOL</P> <P>Get over it and talk to your gimpy guildies if you wipe on zone in.</P> <P>The only time you will if people are not paying attention, unless my guild just has some uber luck that this never has happened to.</P> <P>Learn to play and you might be able to raid successfully.</P> <P>IF the worst happens, and you agro the mobs, you zone out and start again.  If you wipe on a named, just don't click out.</P> <P>It is not rocket science. </P> <P>I hear Hello Kitty has a MORPG, maybe that is more to your speed?</P> <P><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Tazr]

<DIV>Hey slapnuts, my guild has no problem with the entrance, it doesnt mean it doesnt need to be fixed.  You do not know how to read a thread, so do not post until you do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hear fisherprice is releasing a learn to read MMO, you should play it.. a lot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The level of absolute idiots on these forums like aformationed poster above, is beyond a joke, very sad.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tazric on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:48 AM</span>

[Bremer]

The zone in in DT seperates the good from the bad players. If a player is good or bad should not be determined by if he's able to kill the hardest mobs in the game but if he's able not to accidently zone out if the zone out point covers his whole screen or if he is able not to die because of mobs that attack players at release points. The real uber guilds are in fact not these that clear Emerald Halls first or kill the Avatars of Xy but these that enter the zone where these mob stands and not accidently zone out. If you don't understand that, go play WoW.<div></div>

[Tazr]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bremer wrote:<BR>The zone in in DT seperates the good from the bad players. If a player is good or bad should not be determined by if he's able to kill the hardest mobs in the game but if he's able not to accidently zone out if the zone out point covers his whole screen or if he is able not to die because of mobs that attack players at release points. The real uber guilds are in fact not these that clear Emerald Halls first or kill the Avatars of Xy but these that enter the zone where these mob stands and not accidently zone out. If you don't understand that, go play WoW.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV>Read the whole post.  Thanks~  Come on guys, jesus is it that hard to understand the point here.</DIV>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>Well accidentally zoning out means the player is an idiot.  I mean common, just don't move around using your mouse or work around it.</P> <P>On the other hand having a mob camp the revive point is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  That's happened to us twice in DT.  Raid zones in and an eyeball aggros right away before anyone's ready.  That part definitely needs a fix.</P>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tazric wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hey slapnuts, my guild has no problem with the entrance, it doesnt mean it doesnt need to be fixed.  You do not know how to read a thread, so do not post until you do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hear fisherprice is releasing a learn to read MMO, you should play it.. a lot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The level of absolute idiots on these forums like aformationed poster above, is beyond a joke, very sad.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tazric on <SPAN class=date_text>12-15-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:48 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Who's the bigger idiot, the person who simply disagrees with the sentiment that the zone in needs to be changed, or someone who cannot post with tossing around juvenile names at someone who disagrees?</P> <P>(yes, rhetorical question there champ.)</P>

[Tazr]

<DIV>Hard to say, since havent seen that in this post yet.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Disagreeing is fine, trying to belittle somoene making a perfectly good argument isnt.  There is way too many  players beating their chests and trying to make people feel stupid on the forums, I gave up pointing this out last month, once again I will give up now. if your paranoid enough, one might almost think it was purposeful  to distract from the issue at hand, for no reaosn than out of spike for some wierd reason /shrug.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But since its rhetorical I guess the quesion doesnt matter <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To those that posted there is no skill/challenge, I agree, it should be fixed, but like I said, not super important <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[KBern]

<P>Go back and read my posts. </P> <P>I simply disagreed and gave what my guild does to avoid the issue.  We have never wiped on zone in and lived in DT for months.</P> <P>You quoted me after I was responding so someone who was belittling those who did not agree with him.</P> <P>Again I refer to the Plane of Fear in EQ1....there should be more zones like that in EQ2, and small risk that some say they face in DT, which again I have never seen happen, does not need to be changed in mine and others opinion.</P>

[Tazr]

<P>Strange how there has not been a zone in like it in 7 years.  I wonder why that is.</P> <P> </P> <P>** Edit ** Also PoFear, if you want to use that comparison, was designed that way and htere was a strat for it, that involved skill, with a small amount of luck on invis blowing out.  There is zero skill in the DT zone in, its just luck of the draw.</P><p>Message Edited by Tazric on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:35 PM</span>

[Scort]

<P>Killing people, wiping raids simply for zoning in, is totally 100% lame. Plain and simple. It's total BS. It isn't about challenge, it's about treating your players fairly. Having a game mechanic that starts a raid off at 90% armor is lame.</P> <P>It adds ZERO fun to the game. It just pisses people off.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:54 PM</span>

[Twoboxer2]

<P>LOL! I didn't think my OP would prove to be so productive!</P> <P>OK, it didn't get a zone-in fixed . . . yet.</P> <P>But it did give me a pretty clear list of posters whose judgement is worthless to me, so it will save me a lot of reading in the future . . . even when they are taking their meds properly lol.</P> <P>The only thing that everyone (eventually) agreed is that you can be attacked on the spot you zoned in on. </P> <P>I suppose that's progress lol. That makes a peaceful zone-in the result of luck. If you think that's something useful - or intentional - fine. Like I said, I'm glad I have your names lol.</P> <P>Until SOE can accomplish simultaneous group zoning, I and others see no point in insta-zone-in-aggro. Many of us who think this way don't care about how "tough" the eyes are now, or how Combat Engine Version 3.2 has made life difficult. If we need to get better to do what we used to do . . . fine,  we will . . . its just "more content" lol. </P> <P>But, we do believe this zone-in situation is an artifact, an accident, with only laziness and inattentiveness as barriers to correcting it.</P> <P>For those of you who feel it is a good test of who belongs in a raid zone and who doesn't, perhaps your judgement will be supported when we see it employed in more than just this zone in EQ2.</P>