problem with the Mistmoore Inner Sanctum

[pubear]

<div></div>Explain to me the necessity of putting see invis mobs between the front door and the entrance to the raid zone.  This is requiring guilds on the PVE servers to park a conjuror, (preferably an alt, but occassionally a main)  out front to bring in the inevitable healer when somebody logs due to the time.  Freeport guilds on the PVP servers are just screwed, giving an unfair advantage to the queynos guilds, since CoH is only available to conjuror's.Then there's the fact that this is hindering access to a quest mob, since the last quest for the marr deity series requires you to slay an iksar shadowknight right outside the entrance, and the league questline has an npc in the same room.   Would it be a huge problem to make it possible to invis your way to this room, without requiring a full group, to literally fight you way down or having to station a conjuror for CoH duty?<div></div><p>Message Edited by pubear on <span class=date_text>11-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:31 PM</span>

[Kyriel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pubear wrote:<BR> Explain to me the necessity of putting see invis mobs between the front door and the entrance to the raid zone.  This is requiring guilds on the PVE servers to park a conjuror, (preferably an alt, but occassionally a main)  out front to bring in the inevitable healer when somebody logs due to the time.  Freeport guilds on the PVP servers are just screwed, giving an unfair advantage to the queynos guilds, since CoH is only available to conjuror's.<BR><BR><U>Then there's the fact that this is hindering access to a quest mob, since the last quest for the marr deity series requires you to slay an iksar shadowknight right outside the entrance, and the league questline has an npc in the same room.</U>   Would it be a huge problem to make it possible to invis your way to this room, without requiring a full group, to literally fight you way down or having to station a conjuror for CoH duty?<BR> <P>Message Edited by pubear on <SPAN class=date_text>11-26-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:31 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>It's not hindering your access to a quest mob. THe mob is a yellow heroic. You'd need a group to kill him anyway? Your wanting to invis your entire group just to kill him? That's a little TOO easy imo. </P> <P> </P>

[pubear]

I threw that in just because the mob is there.  My point is not the quest, that's kind of like ignoring the car because the ornament is ugly.  The major point is having to CoH replacements to a raid.  I dont care what you do, inevitably you are going to have somebody you want outside the castle and need to have them in the raid.  Currently most of the mobs between the entrance and this area can't see invis.  Right now, except for the one see invis at the doorway into the piano room, if somebody needed to get into the raid, they wouldn't have to be CoH'd.The other part is that as a conjuror, it isn't fun to have the raid leader forced to ask me to sit out of a raid because they needed me to be their CoH [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  But at least we are able to have Conjurors, unlike the Freeport pvp guilds.  But regardless, i dont like it, because i'm not going to like a raid zone that requires me to sit outside of a raid so that we can get a replacement healer in.<div></div>

[kenm]

The mobs that see invis are *random*.  I've been in Castle Mistmoore times where I could invis practically anywhere, and others where I can't even invis past the first door.<div></div>

[Kyriel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenman wrote:<BR>The mobs that see invis are *random*.  I've been in Castle Mistmoore times where I could invis practically anywhere, and others where I can't even invis past the first door.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know this is offtopic but I cant help to notice that your sig says your race is froschlok...... lol

[FlintAH]

How is that different than harla dar?<div></div>

[Kyriel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FlintAH wrote:<BR>How is that different than harla dar?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>people could train down to harla dar's instance. Mistmoore is actually hard. ( I like it harder. )

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Zemfira wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FlintAH wrote:<BR>How is that different than harla dar?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>people could train down to harla dar's instance. Mistmoore is actually hard. ( I like it harder. )<hr></blockquote> <Br>It's pretty hard to train solo down to Harla Dar. Either way, just park a Conjuror there then, and deal with it. Or better yet, go in with the raid you want the first time.

[pubear]

<div></div>the difference is simple, HD was a relatively short instance.  Here i had to sit there for 4 to 6 hours just so somebody could be there to CoH people from the entrance to the inner sanctum zone in.  Please convince me that is fun.  This was as fun to me as watching paint dry.  Harla Dar is over in a few minutes, with the necessity of killing her before the spawn cycle, so that its unlikely you would need to bring somebody in from outside.  Inner Sanctum is not a quick zone.  All because you can't invis to the zone in.  You can say its fun to be hard, but the fact is that being the CoH [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], is not fun, and it will be done, regardless of what anybody wants to think.  The raid leader that has to ask the main to do this isn't going to find it fun either.  For a few months, you will have people needing to be brought in from outside, most notably classes such as healers.  This may not be an issue in some of the higher end guilds, but this zone isn't JUST being done by those guilds.  There are also guilds doing this at the moment that may take a few hours to clear it for a few weeks, what with the repopping trash mobs.  Sony seems to worry about making situations that are not fun.  As a conjuror, I can assure you that being told to sit out of a raid that you were looking forward to being on, because we have to have somebody to do this, is not fun.  In addition, this means that  on PVP,  Freeporter guilds probably can't just bring somebody in, while queynos guilds can.   Personally i dont think deathtoll was made or broken by being able to get to the zone in.  Emerald Halls, the hardest zone in the game, you can easily get to the zone in without even needing to invis, what with the mobs surrounding it being either grey or non agro.  I dont see Emerald Halls being less difficult because of this.  Personally I dont see that the ability to easily get to a zone in, as making the zone any less hard to complete. I may have to "deal with it", but this still sucks having to do this and making a clear path for the inevitable solo straggler to make their way down to the raid zone in, isn't gonna break the zone.   I dont feel that people should have to be STUCK doing things like this.   There are still plenty of see invis mobs in the rest of the castle, making it impossible to move around the castle, while invisible.  Notice I am merely stating that it would be nice to have a clear path, not eliminate see invis mobs from the piano room, altogether.  Just make it possible for a healer to invis their way down, so that a main doesn't have to sit out, to CoH.<div></div><p>Message Edited by pubear on <span class=date_text>11-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:47 AM</span>

[FlintAH]

This zone doesnt take an extremely long time from what I have seen.  You have to move fast anyways.<div></div>

[pubear]

haha, we spent 6 hours in there.  We are not NPU.  We are not going to finish this zone the first time in under 3 hrs.  About 4 hours in, people with jobs or early classes start logging.  Though this zone isn't that hard, we having cleared everything but having had to stop before mayong the first time due to us having been there for 6 or more hours at that point.  Tbh, i dont expect people from top 10 raiding guilds understanding this.  You probably can clear Inner Sanctum in under 2 to 3 hours already.  But you are frankly in the minority.<div></div>

[Majorminor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR><BR>Either way, just park a Conjuror there then, and deal with it. Or better yet, go in with the raid you want the first time.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Agree.  If you're not on time /shrug Sorry, next time.  And not saying that to be mean, Just the way it is.   If there too important to to be there, just wait for em /shrug.

[pubear]

Yeah that would be nice.  I think it would be wonderful if we didn't need to do this.  You are preaching to the choir on that.  But you know that its gonna happen regardless.  We are not talking about getting the person that is on, but a few minutes late, to the zone in, we are talking about getting the healer to zone in, a few hours after the raid goes in, when the first healer logs in, and you've run out of replacements on deck.Simply put, if its late and you need a healer to keep going and the only healer or other essential class member,  is outside of mistmoore castle, your still going to want to get them in.  No way is a raid leader going to tell people that its time to pack up because we dont want to put a conjuror there to Coh someone down to the zone in.  Its human nature, that if you are expecting people to log, to want to make sure you can get somebody in.<div></div>

[Pins]

Level up an alt to Level 52, and park them outside of the zone then. Jeez.

[quamdar]

or if you think you will need replacements just have them walk down with the raid and then sit outside the instance and wait till they are needed.btw you can invis down there a lot of the time pretty easily, i have done it a few times.  sometimes you get unlucky and the mobs pop in a way you can't get around but a lot of the time you can find a way around them.<div></div>

[t0iletduck]

I don't think they should change the zone just to accomodate people who are late to raids for whatever reason. What we do is have our raid form outside the castle. We then plow a path through to the raid instance and the people who are sitting out follow. This way they can be parked right outside the zone in if they are needed. The way it is now makes it harder for casual guilds who may not have more than 24 people on, but that is one of the caveats of the zone. We usually only have one Conj with our raids, but we sure as heck won't make him stay parked outside the zone. If people are late, too bad for them. As pinski mentioned, if attendence is a big problem, have someone in the guild bite the bullet and make a conj alt to CoH people or hire an outsider to do it for plat. Basically, don't expect SoE to change the zone because they have much bigger fish to fry. <div></div>

[Gungo]

Training (w fake death) or invising down to MM inner santum is not hard. There is only a handful of heroic mobs on the top level that see invis. Wait for a group to clear or find the correct path.

[pubear]

Your suggestions are all well and good, but you miss the point.  We are talking about bringing a healer to replace one that logs.  The replacement healer may not even be logged on, since we have called to see if a given healer would log on.  At that point, they need to get the healer to the zone in.  With see invis mobs in the way, you have to CoH.  Tbh, I think that CoH'ing is much easier than having to run down past see invis mobs, since there are still roamers that see invis and you have to dodge them.If SoE can't be bothered, it looks like i'm going to be doing some hard thinking next time we do this zone.<div></div>

[Kyriel]

<DIV>Make sure your healers agree and understand the leangth of the raid, and if they can only stay for an hour, get a different healer.  If you decide to zone in anyway and someone logs, your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of luck. Good luck next week</DIV>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pubear wrote:<BR> You can say its fun to be hard, but the fact is that being the CoH [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], is not fun, and it will be done, regardless of what anybody wants to think.  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sounds like your guild sucks. If you can't find 24 people to commit to the time needed to raid there, then don't go there. Go somewhere else. There ARE easier zones that take less time. If your guild/raid leader is making you sit outside of the zone for 6 hours, I would look for a new guild. That is a serious waste of your time.

[pubear]

ty, you seem to have been the only one that saw my problem with this.  Course I really dont have many options, since there are only two guilds on this server that are even able to have a chance at clearing this zone.  So my choices, since the other is not really a choice, are whether i want to raid this kind of content bad enough to put up with it, if they ask me again.  Either way, my own personal dilemna would be solved if they just made a clear path.  Considering the mobs at the head of the stair and down in the area around the secret passage already dont see invis, and there are really only 2 vampires in the way that do, I thought that removing these would be pretty simple and wouldn't exactly break anything.Though for the life of me, I dont see why the simple act of allowing it so that even a templar can invis to the head of the stairs there would be of such game breaking issues as to get everybody all hot and bothered.  Dont you think you could instead argue for tarinax to get a tactical nuke so as to make him impossible to kill by any but 2 guilds worldwide?  Now since he is a claymore update, that would make finishing that questline alot more hard.  Arguing that you can train or fight your way down or make everybody sit outside(which we do, duh!), instead of at the entrance to MM castle, seems kinda silly, since these are not practical suggestions.  Some guilds are going to take a while and have to replace healers a few hours into the zone.  I'm sorry at midnight, people log due to work and stuff.  All these suggestions to make it harder, or why its not hard, are moot, because CoH bypasses all of it.I was arguing that not having to CoH just to get replacements to this zone in would be nice and not extraordinarily hard to implement, since only 2 vampires normally are in the way.  But since the elimination of 2 vampires would destroy the integrity of the world of norrath, i guess I have to deal with maybe having to stop raiding, to soothe your feelings.  Well have a nice day.<div></div>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> pubear wrote: <div></div>You can say its fun to be hard, but the fact is that being the CoH [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], is not fun, and it will be done, regardless of what anybody wants to think.  <hr> </blockquote>Sounds like your guild sucks. If you can't find 24 people to commit to the time needed to raid there, then don't go there. Go somewhere else. There ARE easier zones that take less time. If your guild/raid leader is making you sit outside of the zone for 6 hours, I would look for a new guild. That is a serious waste of your time.<hr></blockquote>LOL wow Elanie it seems you have got a bit more brash since you started raiding more....</div>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pubear wrote:<BR> You can say its fun to be hard, but the fact is that being the CoH [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], is not fun, and it will be done, regardless of what anybody wants to think.  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sounds like your guild sucks. If you can't find 24 people to commit to the time needed to raid there, then don't go there. Go somewhere else. There ARE easier zones that take less time. If your guild/raid leader is making you sit outside of the zone for 6 hours, I would look for a new guild. That is a serious waste of your time.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>LOL wow Elanie it seems you have got a bit more brash since you started raiding more....<BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No, I just find it silly that someone is asking for a change in game mechanics because his guild can't commit to a raid zone, and make him sit outside for 6 hours. What a yawn fest, I would never put up with that. Latecomers are just that, late. They miss out on the fun.

[Computer MAn]

<div><blockquote><hr>No, I just find it silly that someone is asking for a change in game mechanics because his guild can't commit to a raid zone, and make him sit outside for 6 hours. What a yawn fest, I would never put up with that. Latecomers are just that, late. They miss out on the fun.<hr></blockquote>I agree 100% with this statement why nerf a zone down be it a zone intended for a well geared group just so someone's guild who can't have people commit to a raid can get replacements in. Asking a conjuror (a pretty decent DPS class) to sit out for people who are late seems like a complete waste of resources and people. You stated that you are calling people to see if they can come to the raid when a healer logs. Why not just call the healers that aren't on before the raid and tell them to log on and come to the raid zone? It really seems to me that your guild is not prepared at all for this zone and should stick to something easier (although this place minus Mayong is pretty weak) or less time consuming.</div>

[pubear]

well, the problem from my point of view was solved last night.  My wife and I left the guild.  Since the other choice on this server is ethereal legacy, not sure what we are going to do, but I refuse to be a CoH [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  I tried this because I didn't want to leave.  Simple enough concept really.  But more things have happened, and I dont see this changing, so we figured it was time to go.<div></div>

[Mr. Dawki]

<DIV>if your making a conj CoH an entire raid down 35 feet to avoid 10 encounters max!? your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and i would leave your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] guild too</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>fight the mobs isnt that what this game is about fighting mobs?</DIV> <DIV>if its not please enlighten me</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"WAAAAAA they put see invis mobs at the zone in   WAAAAAAAAAAA"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=7>SU&P!</FONT></DIV>

[pubear]

no, lol, the raid and the on deck people went down in mass.  The CoH person was there for late comers.  Most specifically when later at night people would have to log and they wanted to bring in a person, usually a healer or some other necessary class that hadn't been able to be there on time due to work or life or whatever.Regardless, since its an exchange server, someone could have simply bought a [Removed for Content] 52 conjuror and coh'd that toon down and parked it.  The area we waited in was no agro, and you could have CoH'd any level toon down there.  Or an alt could have been, of which at least one person had such an alt.  Regardless, putting a main, which is one of your top dps, on the docks like that was such a waste, that I just couldn't take it anymore.  So now we try something new. <div></div>

[Linlainu]

This thread has been moved to another forum that better matches its subject matter. Please follow the link to find its new location.

[Lariu]

<P>Mistmoor Inner Sanctum = hard. Be prepared for it or don't bother. Seriously. I think it's great that you have to stick it out or forget it.</P>

[psubull]

Why do people not just KILL MOBs these days?<div></div>

[Grozmok]

<div></div>The zone is shorter and easier than labs. (Before I am flamed, I am not of course including Mayong in this.)My guild has the exact same problem as yours does. However, confirm with every single person on the raid they can stay the 3 hrs it takes you to learn the mob, and you should be fine.Also, get any possible replacements to camp out right outside the zone in if still required when you clear down.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Grozmok on <span class=date_text>12-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:18 PM</span>