Freethinker Hideout Tactics

[LagerYerba]

Well, my guild tried it out for the first time, cleared out every mob in the beginning, and we got stuck on the first named.  So I was thinking it would be nice to see how other people managed to beat it (if they have) and give any tips if they're willing.We got kinda stuck in the beginning about throwing the bones to get the werewolves out of the way so we can clear the other ones, but managed to figure that out after one of us got curious with a clicky and became a chewtoy for a werewolf.Is that vase movable that the named drops? do we have to be max range? is this a ranged fight? we seem to have tried every conceivable tactic that was previously used in other raid zones but to no avail.Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. =)<div></div>

[mikemcmodmi]

We were stuck on the same named.  One thing we figured out though, the pots he drops explode.  The aoe is centered around them.  He also says something every time he drops a pot.

[Kyriel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikemcmodmike wrote:<BR> We were stuck on the same named.  One thing we figured out though, the pots he drops explode.  The aoe is centered around them.  <STRONG>He also says something every time he drops a pot.</STRONG><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>"oops, did i drop that?" <BR></P>

[THteampink]

It seems this guy can be pretty buggy.  For us he was summoning half the raid, literally 12 people, and dropping vase after vase after vase.  Others have said he only summons one person and doesnt ae very often.  *shrug*<div></div>

[LexxerCoV]

<P>We killed the first named a few days ago...took us a few pulls to figure him out but he died. Tonight we tried again and every pull he would fear half our raid, sometimes more. Every single healer was feared and the MT would drop for obvious reasons. Was the same on every pull...pretty much entire raid feared and blown up.</P> <P>Definitely NOT the same mob we killed 4 days ago.</P>

[THteampink]

He really seems like he can be two different versions.  One totally owns and is impossible, one is totally doable.<div></div>

[FLLonewu]

<div><blockquote><hr>LexxerCoV wrote:<div></div> <p>We killed the first named a few days ago...took us a few pulls to figure him out but he died. Tonight we tried again and every pull he would fear half our raid, sometimes more. Every single healer was feared and the MT would drop for obvious reasons. Was the same on every pull...pretty much entire raid feared and blown up.</p> <p>Definitely NOT the same mob we killed 4 days ago.</p><hr></blockquote>We experienced th same thing, though it might have been due to different group makeup.  Our 1st time in we got him on the 2d or 3d pull.  We went in two nights ago and he was doing some different things (fearing alot more ppl, knocking ppl through he world. etc)  May have been to missing some group nox cures, but appeared buggy as well.  Also appeared the time into zone bug was back as it was the 1st few ppl that zoned in that were effected the most by his port/summons/fears even though they were in different groups.</div>

[Illustrious]

<P>We are not the best raid guild by any means, but we did manage to kill him on about the 3rd pull even with only 2 grp nox curers. Jousting is easy as he says things like "opps did i drop that" or "take a deep breath" soon as u hear those you have about 2 or 3 secs to get outta range. he also says something like "come here" whenever he summons and then fears someone.</P> <P> </P> <P>sounds like some people have gotten a bugged version though if half the raid is getting summoned and feared at once...or maybe was us that had the bugged version that was too easy?</P> <P> </P>

[Mgunner]

It's the second named that scares the heck out of me

[Feltrak]

<DIV>We did the zone last week sometime and killed him after a couple pulls. Once we figured out a strategy for it that trip he was easy. We went in on Tuesday and he dropped vases every 5 seconds, and he dropped 2 alot. Double vase on the pull was his favorite. Oh yeah and fearing a bunch of people on the pull too. We wiped several times, figured he was just bugged and left. Went back in Wednesday night and used our strat from last week and killed him again. It seemed you can get a buggy version. IMO if he's dropping 2 vases every 5 secs he's not killable.</DIV>

[Barand]

Same for us, but we tried him 3 different night and everytimes he drop lots more vase than he should have. Something i have noticed is that he seems to drop more when there where other guild trying him. Maybe the script is bugged where there are other instance <div></div>

[pawnipt]

It seems he fears the same people every pull, relogging most of the raid members may change who gets feared!  Worth a try id say.<div></div>

[THteampink]

<div><blockquote><hr>pawnipt wrote:It seems he fears the same people every pull, relogging most of the raid members may change who gets feared!  Worth a try id say.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Ya Feltrak we had about the same experience as you.  Double vase drop, back to back summoning every 5 secs or so.  Literally back to back, he would summon about 5 people and fear them, while dropping vases, and WHILE they were feared he would summon more people and fear them.  It was extremely irrirtating.</div>

[Caetrel]

If this encounter is supposed to work like this: Drops vase for AOE that will kill most if not cured quickly as it ticks 2-4k damage, does this about every 20-25 seconds.  Can also fear anyone within AOE range with second effect.  Randomly teleports one person to him every ____ seconds.  If this is the case, then it is a relatively simple encounter that you can beat by maintaining cures and jousting.   Ooops, Who's Next etc.... When we tried him it was alot of what I'm hearing here.  Double vase, porting up to 12 people lol.  One time he ported all healers but one.  Best we got him is 28% like this.  Eventually it would come to a bad round of 'ports and when enough key people were feared a ton of people would die from AOE.  Mob doesn't hit MT too hard.  Honestly, I assumed we were doing something wrong with the encounter to make the teleport/fear craziness happen so much.  Are we just seeing a bugged mob? <div></div>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

<DIV>yeah we had this too, 2 different versions, 1 killable the other alot tougher</DIV>

[Spierce]

I will look into this.  I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is (when he is summoning 12 people).  Happy Thanksgiving.

[Tauch]

<div><blockquote><hr>Caetrel wrote: When we tried him it was alot of what I'm hearing here.  Double vase, porting up to 12 people lol.  One time he ported all healers but one.  Best we got him is 28% like this.  Eventually it would come to a bad round of 'ports and when enough key people were feared a ton of people would die from AOE.  Mob doesn't hit MT too hard.  Honestly, I assumed we were doing something wrong with the encounter to make the teleport/fear craziness happen so much.  Are we just seeing a bugged mob? <div></div><hr></blockquote>On SD's second trip through Freethinker's we did fine with the Werewolf(Shredder or something or other) but we had a ton of problems with the third vampire(Treyloth I think his name was). It seemed like, compared to our first trip, Treyloth was AEing twice as much. I think the figure was our MT got hit 72 times with his AE in a 73 second fight. While we dealing with this pumped-up Treyloth another guild on our server (in Freethinker's at the same time, zoned in well after us) mentioned they were having problems with Shredder the Werewolf, the first boss - like he was bugged.I think the zone may be rife with scripting errors, possibly to do with multiple instances as mentioned before in this thread. <span>:smileysad:</span></div>

[CrazedMut]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Spierce wrote:<div></div>I will look into this.  I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is (when he is summoning 12 people).  Happy Thanksgiving.<hr></blockquote>That you Arathym posting from your station account? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I would also add that the first time we killed him (night AFTER patch night) he was fairly simple. 4 days later and he was fearing and porting a hell of a lot more than he should have been, made him extremely difficult.<div></div><p>Message Edited by CrazedMutha on <span class=date_text>11-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:19 AM</span>

[Illustrious]

<P>had our second attempt of zone yesterday, and managed to kill second namer at last. The third namer never went down as we were pretty much all nakid and out of kits, but he looks to be fun also (as long as you dont get in front of him when he AE of course!)</P> <P> </P> <P>Great zone so far and and both of the first 2 namers have some nice scripts that seem a little more fun than the usual.</P>

[genesis013]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Illustrious wrote:<BR> <P>had our second attempt of zone yesterday, and managed to kill second namer at last. The third namer never went down as we were pretty much all nakid and out of kits, but he looks to be fun also (as long as you dont get in front of him when he AE of course!)</P> <P> </P> <P>Great zone so far and and both of the first 2 namers have some nice scripts that seem a little more fun than the usual.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Any advice you can give for second named?

[Illustrious]

<DIV>Illustrious wrote:<BR> <P>had our second attempt of zone yesterday, and managed to kill second namer at last. The third namer never went down as we were pretty much all nakid and out of kits, but he looks to be fun also (as long as you dont get in front of him when he AE of course!)</P> <P> </P> <P>Great zone so far and and both of the first 2 namers have some nice scripts that seem a little more fun than the usual.</P> <P></P> <HR> <BR><BR>Any advice you can give for second named?</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P>Well wont post an entire spoiler here but i will say just do NOT let the heroic adds get anywhere near the Namer. If you want more advice on how we did it feel free to send Dorfy a in game tell on Runnyeye server.</P>

[Mr. Dawki]

<DIV>same thing for us  4 out of 8 healers ported feared and killed all at once</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>relogged and it was the other half of the healers and a few dps</DIV>

[RiTuL0]

Looks like we got the good instance when we cleared the zone!<span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>RiTuL009 wrote:Looks like we got the good instance when we cleared the zone!<span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Actually, you got the [Removed for Content] instance, since the 3rd named wasn't completely done at the time. Btw, haven't cleared it since have ya?

[PhroZenAssassin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> genesis013 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Illustrious wrote:<BR> <P>had our second attempt of zone yesterday, and managed to kill second namer at last. The third namer never went down as we were pretty much all nakid and out of kits, but he looks to be fun also (as long as you dont get in front of him when he AE of course!)</P> <P> </P> <P>Great zone so far and and both of the first 2 namers have some nice scripts that seem a little more fun than the usual.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Any advice you can give for second named?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Take a few pulls and see what happens and why it happens <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by PhroZenAssassin on <span class=date_text>11-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:38 PM</span>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>This zone needs to be fixed.  I'm on Kithicor and there are always multiple guilds in each zone.  There are way too many guilds that raid kicking around, like 10+ with 8 killing Tarinax already.</P> <P>Well anyways we got one good pull on the shredder but wiped at 30%.  After that he bugged out.  Dropping multiple vases at once, porting 8 people at the same time, buggy stuff like that.  From what I've seen, the one time we pulled him he seemed killable but every time afterwards he's been unkillable.  While jousting he's hitting for 2k dps melee and 3k dps from pots according to the parser.  It's ridiculous.  We never lasted more then 5% into each encounter afterwards.  Please fix the multiple guilds in zone bug.</P>

[Murdoc S]

<DIV>the third named is fun <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Gangly]

<div><blockquote><hr>mikemcmodmike wrote:<div></div> <p>This zone needs to be fixed.  I'm on Kithicor and there are always multiple guilds in each zone.  There are way too many guilds that raid kicking around, like 10+ with 8 killing Tarinax already.</p> <p>Well anyways we got one good pull on the shredder but wiped at 30%.  After that he bugged out.  Dropping multiple vases at once, porting 8 people at the same time, buggy stuff like that.  From what I've seen, the one time we pulled him he seemed killable but every time afterwards he's been unkillable.  While jousting he's hitting for 2k dps melee and 3k dps from pots according to the parser.  It's ridiculous.  We never lasted more then 5% into each encounter afterwards.  Please fix the multiple guilds in zone bug.</p><hr></blockquote>We've had the same issue every single time we have gone in.  The only difference is that he was auto attacking for about 5000 dps (not including the pots).  Our tank lasted about 5 seconds on each pull.</div>

[Deml]

Cleared the zone again the other night and I have to say I think the final boss fight in there was much more fun and challenging than before this last change.  He just seems so trivial now compared to how he was before.  It's anti-climactic since the 3rd name is a harder fight now.  Granted, it changed it from a 40 minute fight to a 10 minute one but still, the harder one is preferred imo.

[FuzzBall]

We hit it last night and slasher did just that, ripped us to bits.  The trash mobs are easy as long as you pull one at a time but Slasher...Dropped three vases in 15 seconds.Poison AE was exactly 2468 raid wide, regardless of the poison resist.  We checked people from 3300 vs poiosn to 9500 vs poison, all the same.Slashing was 4200 on a brig with 3800 mit and 4100 on a guardian will 5800 mit.  You dont want to know what he did to the tissue paper wearing casters.There isnt a healer alive that can cure for that.  15 seconds was the record for us, this guy has got to be bugged.  Tarinax is bigger than this guy and takes minutes to get down, this guy wipes a raid in 5-15 seconds.<div></div>

[Ellrin]

<blockquote><hr>FuzzBall wrote:We hit it last night and slasher did just that, ripped us to bits.  The trash mobs are easy as long as you pull one at a time but Slasher...Dropped three vases in 15 seconds.Poison AE was exactly 2468 raid wide, regardless of the poison resist.  We checked people from 3300 vs poiosn to 9500 vs poison, all the same.Slashing was 4200 on a brig with 3800 mit and 4100 on a guardian will 5800 mit.  You dont want to know what he did to the tissue paper wearing casters.There isnt a healer alive that can cure for that.  15 seconds was the record for us, this guy has got to be bugged.  Tarinax is bigger than this guy and takes minutes to get down, this guy wipes a raid in 5-15 seconds.<div></div><hr></blockquote>OK its accepted that there is a bug thats being fixed where he will drop multiple vases at the same time.I daresay that you will get ripped to bits even after its fixed unless you adjust your tactics and no that will not be a bug, you know when he's going to drop a vase and there is no reason for anybody but the MT to get hit by it.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Demlar wrote:<BR> Cleared the zone again the other night and I have to say I think the final boss fight in there was much more fun and challenging than before this last change.  He just seems so trivial now compared to how he was before.  It's anti-climactic since the 3rd name is a harder fight now.  Granted, it changed it from a 40 minute fight to a 10 minute one but still, the harder one is preferred imo.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>40min hahahha.  Wow.</P> <P>At any rate pre-change you guys killed a [Removed for Content] Treylon.  So I find it funny that you have the nerve to complain about Malkonis.<BR></P>

[neon_24]

and after the un gimping we killed them all agin so i fail to see your point.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neon_24 wrote:<BR> and after the un gimping we killed them all agin so i fail to see your point.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Why complain about Malkonis' being changed.  That's my point.  I also don't see how you guys could've fought him for 40mins or really even 10.  Took us 3 pulls to kill him I think, and it wasn't anywhere near being over 10 mins.<BR>

[Deml]

Regardless, our first kill of him was a 40 minute fight, the last time we did it, after they gimped him, he's now a 10 minute fight on this attempt but will probably be faster than that soon.  I fully imagine that Disso and Second Dawn will be able to kill D'morte in about 5-8 minutes with little problems, because I know what those guilds dps is compared to ours. 

[neon_24]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neon_24 wrote:<BR> and after the un gimping we killed them all agin so i fail to see your point.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Why complain about Malkonis' being changed.  That's my point.  I also don't see how you guys could've fought him for 40mins or really even 10.  Took us 3 pulls to kill him I think, and it wasn't anywhere near being over 10 mins.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>apparently it was a longer fight before the change i donnuo i was on deployment when that went down but the most recent fight was shorter if it was exactly 10 mins or less or more i don't care it died is all i give a [Removed for Content] about. And i don't think Demlar was really complaining i suppose he just liked the longer version of Malkonis better.<BR></DIV>

[Gaige]

40 mins on one mob?  I just don't get it.  Last time I heard anywhere around that kind of length it was EL's leet Death Coordination on Chel'Drak strat.  Ah well.

[neon_24]

<DIV>Ah so the truth comes out your implying we zerged it cause we did not kill it as fast as you guys? top notch there Gaige way to put yourself on a pedistal. ya know i used to have a bit of respec for you when you were a monk/bruiser but now your as much a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as Cusashorn sometimes.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neon_24 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ah so the truth comes out your implying we zerged it cause we did not kill it as fast as you guys? top notch there Gaige way to put yourself on a pedistal. ya know i used to have a bit of respec for you when you were a monk/bruiser but now your as much a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as Cusashorn sometimes.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm not implying that at all.  In fact I'm aware with the new revive mechanics even trying that would be stupid.  I'm just saying, having killed him, I don't see how or why you'd have to fight it for 40 mins.  That's all.  I'm just trying to figure out why it would take that long.</P> <P>You should know if I'm trying to say something, I'll say it.  So quit looking for conspiracy theories.<BR></P>

[Scow]

Wow Gaige. Nice comment. Blah. Get over it.

[neon_24]

<P>Well when EL gets talked about nothing else can be drawn from that then zerging so pardon my misunderstanding.</P> <P>But the 40 min fight was pre-change so i suppose it was a totally different fight then compared to now, like i said i was on deployment when that happened so if its troubling you that much sorry i can't help you.</P>

[Gaige]

No problem <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  40mins is just a long time.  We were down to clearing all of Labs in 45 mins, Lyceum in 45 mins so one mob fight taking almost as long as an entire zone (granted an entire zone at the end of an expansion on super farm status) was kind of hard to comprehend, that's all, lol.

[mikemcmodmi]

Well Shredder was bugged according to a dev post and he will be fixed with this update.

[Gungo]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neon_24 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ah so the truth comes out your implying we zerged it cause we did not kill it as fast as you guys? top notch there Gaige way to put yourself on a pedistal. ya know i used to have a bit of respec for you when you were a monk/bruiser but now your as much a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as Cusashorn sometimes.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm not implying that at all.  In fact I'm aware with the new revive mechanics even trying that would be stupid.  I'm just saying, having killed him, I don't see how or why you'd have to fight it for 40 mins.  That's all.  I'm just trying to figure out why it would take that long.</P> <P>You should know if I'm trying to say something, I'll say it.  So quit looking for conspiracy theories.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Prior if guilds didnt kill the shredder on first pull or agro'd it early he would bug out and his aoe timer would not reset thus causing double AOE's. Not that he was extremely hard but u hard to get him the first time or you would probably have alot more repairs then needed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I agree gaige has changed =/. To me it seems he is more bitter and sarcastic then before. Probably becuase he hangs with peeps that complains alot. There will always be something to complain about. The key difference now you look at most things half empty. Instead of looking at all the great changes in eq2 diminshing returns is good overall. The best expansion overall to date, more raids in 1 tier then eq2 has ever had. Content that is starting to get progressive in gear and combat. While everything is not perfect. Its getting there and still is better then any MMO on the market. Take it as what it is worth (a observation) or just flame on. Its really your choice.</DIV>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neon_24 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ah so the truth comes out your implying we zerged it cause we did not kill it as fast as you guys? top notch there Gaige way to put yourself on a pedistal. ya know i used to have a bit of respec for you when you were a monk/bruiser but now your as much a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as Cusashorn sometimes.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm not implying that at all.  In fact I'm aware with the new revive mechanics even trying that would be stupid.  I'm just saying, having killed him, I don't see how or why you'd have to fight it for 40 mins.  That's all.  I'm just trying to figure out why it would take that long.</P> <P>You should know if I'm trying to say something, I'll say it.  So quit looking for conspiracy theories.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Prior if guilds didnt kill the shredder on first pull or agro'd it early he would bug out and his aoe timer would not reset thus causing double AOE's. Not that he was extremely hard but u hard to get him the first time or you would probably have alot more repairs then needed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I agree gaige has changed =/. To me it seems he is more bitter and sarcastic then before. Probably becuase he hangs with peeps that complains alot. There will always be something to complain about. The key difference now you look at most things half empty. Instead of looking at all the great changes in eq2 diminshing returns is good overall. The best expansion overall to date, more raids in 1 tier then eq2 has ever had. Content that is starting to get progressive in gear and combat. While everything is not perfect. Its getting there and still is better then any MMO on the market. Take it as what it is worth (a observation) or just flame on. Its really your choice.</DIV><hr></blockquote> If only gaige was talking about The Shredder.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I agree gaige has changed =/. To me it seems he is more bitter and sarcastic then before. Probably becuase he hangs with peeps that complains alot. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Read some of my old posts about guardians, tanking, monks, etc.  I've been bitter and sarcastic this entire time.  Sorry that you think Dissolution has changed me somehow.  If anything, GMG has changed my outlook about EQ2, but /meh.</P> <P>Oh and as for the best progression in an MMO blah blah at the end of your paragraph, I have one word for you:  Naxxramas.<BR></P>

[Grozmok]

I have to agree with the improperly resetting thing -- our guild killed it first pull the first time we zoned in. However, lately, on our recent raids in there, he is dropping 3-4 vases, all on different timers, on the first pull. That, and he's summoning 10+ people, all on different timers as well.Something isn't quite right <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<div></div>

[Hazeroth]

<P><SPAN>Shredder:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>My guild is not a uber raid guild. We are a casual guild which likes to raid. Because of this we do not form our characters to the need of the raid and our raid make up changes from raid to raid. I hear the more goal oriented guilds have a bard in each group and use the AoE immunity abilities so they can do as much damage as possible on the first pull then once all the AoE abilities and Status clickies are used up they move to jousting.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Of course, these guilds are complete amateurs, suited for brute force tactics and wouldn't know the art of Tactics if the Great Bard Vhalen himself rose from the dead and rang 10 bell towers then sat down and wrote up a missive saying the enemy forces are going through this pass at this time and will stop for a cup of tea at noon.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>So though my guild doesn't raid hard core, it doesn't matter. They have me, the great Kerran Tactician "Silentchord". <Bows></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The first times we fought this beast we were bounced over and over again and through shear luck we succeeded in taking him down after heavy losses. This did not please me, a success rate of 1/10 is not a tactic, it's a debotical. I would much rather like to say we wiped because we were unlucky then to say we won because our foe was unlucky.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>So after the first time in we said, "Ok jousting seems to work ok, it's still highly random and getting ported in will kill you quick, but if you are lucky the right people wont get ported into the AoE and we will win."</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>After the fight, I sat down and began going over parcer data as well as going through the raw log data and some interesting facts began to come to me.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The first fact is, Shredder really doesn't hit all that hard. His DPS is pretty low compared to other named I've encountered. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Second Fact is his Stench AoE is doing around 60% or more of his total DPS. In fact if he didn't drop the Vases he would be a joke.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>He has some 4 tricks in his arsenal that really isn't all that bad. He has a knockback (non-stun), a Power Drain AoE (medium range), a Random port to his exact location with a short fear and lastly his Vase(short range). He's also a slow runnner (more on that latter).</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The second time through I decided to put all my huge intellect behind finding his weakness, his trick if you will <smoothes back a whisker>.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>It was here that I had an epiphany. About after the 5 deaths or so, a Fellow Guildy by the name of Paxton drew my attention to the vases that he was dropping (up to this point, I'm ashamed to admit, I assumed his poison AoE was something Shredder was doing. Even though my parser data never said the damage was coming from him).</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>My jaw dropped? WHAT, it's a vase that is doing the damage? Not the Shredder? We have 3 to 4 seconds between when the vase drops to when they explode? Why didn't I get his memo! DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Within seconds I had a new plan, a plan I call "Beebop and Rocksteady". No groaning please...</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The plan is this....Kite the Shredder...</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Basically it's this.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>You have the raid all enter the Shredder's room. No one must go past the first set of pillars in the first room. If you pass it you will agro the Shredder.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Once everyone is in place the MT will rush the Shredder on his pedestal and pull him to the far side and off to an angle.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>As the MT pull him back everyone else needs to get up to and onto the pedestal, this will be the rally point for people who are ported and feared. You could also spread the healers out so there are is broader avenue of healing. The pillar's will get in the way but if you spread out some healer somewhere should have an unobstructed view of the MT at all times. Even if you are all blocked the Shredders DPS wont be to bad and the MT will always be moving so it'll only be for a click or two before you begin casting.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Once everyone is in position the MT will begin to make laps around the room. Always moving and always attacking. He will stay between the walls of the room and the pillars. This will give him a track and something to concentrate on as he makes his rounds.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Everyone else is to stay on the pedestal’s side of the pillars and stay on the flanks as much as possible so you don't get behind the Shredder. If you don't need to flank just range attack from the pedestal and you should be good.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Here's the reason for the kite if it hasn't dawned on you yet. When the Shredder ports you it is directly where the shredder is at when you are hit. The pot's detonate immediately afterward hitting you with the DoT. But what happens if the Shredder is not within range of the vase AoE when it goes off. We tested this and the results were conclusive. People were getting ported and feared but the AoE missed them.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The Shredder's knockback will become an asset. There are multiple brace points along the walls that will allow the MT to reajust his direction and the Knockback will help the MT stay away from the AoE's. And the angle of the hit will always push the MT toward the wall.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Hopefully multiple vase bug wont be to much of a problem and those that get summoned to him and feared once the fear wears off will make it back to the Pedistal to continue to fight.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>We here at Journeymen of the Overlord are not elitist prigs, if you have already come up with this tactic, good for you, but since we are the first to post it all honor goes to us. This is our Gift to the Raiding community. Please sing our praises when you use my tactic, as well as sing my praises <preens self importantly, as he walks out the door>.</SPAN></P> <P>====</P> <P>Silentchord, lvl 70 Dirge</P> <P>Journeymen of the Overlord</P> <P>Antonia Bayle</P><p>Message Edited by Hazeroth on <span class=date_text>11-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:39 AM</span>

[Gaige]

Wow.  HAHAHA.

[Aandien]

<P>or the super duper easy method:</P> <P>have your raid joust the vase ae's -- tell them to watch their screen for the NPC say msgs and simply back away...</P>

[Hazeroth]

Oh, and if you really want to be an artist, Blow the keg up as the Shredder runs by.

[FLLonewu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hazeroth wrote:<BR> Oh, and if you really want to be an artist, Blow the keg up as the Shredder runs by.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not a good idea if you want to progess some later quest lines as you need that barrel for something else (but thats a discussion for the Quest Lines section).  But grats on developing a strat that works for you.  Very inventive.  Now that the double drop timer bug has been fixed, it shouldn't be much of an issue anymore.  Most ppl will find jousting and curing the AoE DoT effective if they do get hit (curers just have to be on thier toes).

[Hazeroth]

Ya, it's just something you can do if no body is doing the quest or just want something to spice up the kite.

[arathym]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hazeroth wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN>Shredder:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>My guild is not a uber raid guild. We are a casual guild which likes to raid. Because of this we do not form our characters to the need of the raid and our raid make up changes from raid to raid. I hear the more goal oriented guilds have a bard in each group and use the AoE immunity abilities so they can do as much damage as possible on the first pull then once all the AoE abilities and Status clickies are used up they move to jousting.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Of course, these guilds are complete amateurs, suited for brute force tactics and wouldn't know the art of Tactics if the Great Bard Vhalen himself rose from the dead and rang 10 bell towers then sat down and wrote up a missive saying the enemy forces are going through this pass at this time and will stop for a cup of tea at noon.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>So though my guild doesn't raid hard core, it doesn't matter. They have me, the great Kerran Tactician "Silentchord". <Bows></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The first times we fought this beast we were bounced over and over again and through shear luck we succeeded in taking him down after heavy losses. This did not please me, a success rate of 1/10 is not a tactic, it's a debotical. I would much rather like to say we wiped because we were unlucky then to say we won because our foe was unlucky.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>So after the first time in we said, "Ok jousting seems to work ok, it's still highly random and getting ported in will kill you quick, but if you are lucky the right people wont get ported into the AoE and we will win."</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>After the fight, I sat down and began going over parcer data as well as going through the raw log data and some interesting facts began to come to me.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The first fact is, Shredder really doesn't hit all that hard. His DPS is pretty low compared to other named I've encountered. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Second Fact is his Stench AoE is doing around 60% or more of his total DPS. In fact if he didn't drop the Vases he would be a joke.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>He has some 4 tricks in his arsenal that really isn't all that bad. He has a knockback (non-stun), a Power Drain AoE (medium range), a Random port to his exact location with a short fear and lastly his Vase(short range). He's also a slow runnner (more on that latter).</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The second time through I decided to put all my huge intellect behind finding his weakness, his trick if you will <smoothes back a whisker>.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>It was here that I had an epiphany. About after the 5 deaths or so, a Fellow Guildy by the name of Paxton drew my attention to the vases that he was dropping (up to this point, I'm ashamed to admit, I assumed his poison AoE was something Shredder was doing. Even though my parser data never said the damage was coming from him).</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>My jaw dropped? WHAT, it's a vase that is doing the damage? Not the Shredder? We have 3 to 4 seconds between when the vase drops to when they explode? Why didn't I get his memo! DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Within seconds I had a new plan, a plan I call "Beebop and Rocksteady". No groaning please...</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The plan is this....Kite the Shredder...</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Basically it's this.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>You have the raid all enter the Shredder's room. No one must go past the first set of pillars in the first room. If you pass it you will agro the Shredder.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Once everyone is in place the MT will rush the Shredder on his pedestal and pull him to the far side and off to an angle.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>As the MT pull him back everyone else needs to get up to and onto the pedestal, this will be the rally point for people who are ported and feared. You could also spread the healers out so there are is broader avenue of healing. The pillar's will get in the way but if you spread out some healer somewhere should have an unobstructed view of the MT at all times. Even if you are all blocked the Shredders DPS wont be to bad and the MT will always be moving so it'll only be for a click or two before you begin casting.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Once everyone is in position the MT will begin to make laps around the room. Always moving and always attacking. He will stay between the walls of the room and the pillars. This will give him a track and something to concentrate on as he makes his rounds.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Everyone else is to stay on the pedestal’s side of the pillars and stay on the flanks as much as possible so you don't get behind the Shredder. If you don't need to flank just range attack from the pedestal and you should be good.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Here's the reason for the kite if it hasn't dawned on you yet. When the Shredder ports you it is directly where the shredder is at when you are hit. The pot's detonate immediately afterward hitting you with the DoT. But what happens if the Shredder is not within range of the vase AoE when it goes off. We tested this and the results were conclusive. People were getting ported and feared but the AoE missed them.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The Shredder's knockback will become an asset. There are multiple brace points along the walls that will allow the MT to reajust his direction and the Knockback will help the MT stay away from the AoE's. And the angle of the hit will always push the MT toward the wall.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Hopefully multiple vase bug wont be to much of a problem and those that get summoned to him and feared once the fear wears off will make it back to the Pedistal to continue to fight.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>We here at Journeymen of the Overlord are not elitist prigs, if you have already come up with this tactic, good for you, but since we are the first to post it all honor goes to us. This is our Gift to the Raiding community. Please sing our praises when you use my tactic, as well as sing my praises <preens self importantly, as he walks out the door>.</SPAN></P> <P>====</P> <P>Silentchord, lvl 70 Dirge</P> <P>Journeymen of the Overlord</P> <P>Antonia Bayle</P> <P>Message Edited by Hazeroth on <SPAN class=date_text>11-30-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:39 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>NiiiIIIce.  I like!

[arieste]

<P>cool kiting strat.  it might not be the world's greatest strat or even the best, but it's workable, original and yours.  kudos.</P> <P>( i like the catch that he ports you to him rather than to the vase, it's so simple, yet so brilliant! )</P> <P> </P>

[Mgunner]

I like the kite strategy. Not as effiecient, but effective.

[mikemcmodmi]

Wow, we'll have to try that once for S&G.  Sounds like a fun way to kill him too.

[Dejah]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hazeroth wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN>We here at Journeymen of the Overlord are not elitist prigs, if you have already come up with this tactic, good for you, but since we are the first to post it all honor goes to us. This is our Gift to the Raiding community. Please sing our praises when you use my tactic, as well as sing my praises <preens self importantly, as he walks out the door>.</SPAN></P> <P>====</P> <P>Silentchord, lvl 70 Dirge</P> <P>Journeymen of the Overlord</P> <P>Antonia Bayle</P> <P>Message Edited by Hazeroth on <SPAN class=date_text>11-30-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>06:39 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can only imagine that the tone you are taking in your post is to mock another guild.  If this post isn't satirical then all I have to say is:</P> <P>wow.<BR></P> <P>"I hereby proclaim that the ultimate strat for defeating any raid encounter is to reduce the mobs hit points to zero.  If you came up with this yourself, good for you, but as I was the first to post it the honor is all mine and you can kiss my feet every time you use my strat."</P>

[Nainitsuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dejah wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hazeroth wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN>We here at Journeymen of the Overlord are not elitist prigs, if you have already come up with this tactic, good for you, but since we are the first to post it all honor goes to us. This is our Gift to the Raiding community. Please sing our praises when you use my tactic, as well as sing my praises <preens self importantly, as he walks out the door>.</SPAN></P> <P>====</P> <P>Silentchord, lvl 70 Dirge</P> <P>Journeymen of the Overlord</P> <P>Antonia Bayle</P> <P>Message Edited by Hazeroth on <SPAN class=date_text>11-30-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>06:39 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can only imagine that the tone you are taking in your post is to mock another guild.  If this post isn't satirical then all I have to say is:</P> <P>wow.<BR></P> <P>"I hereby proclaim that the ultimate strat for defeating any raid encounter is to reduce the mobs hit points to zero.  If you came up with this yourself, good for you, but as I was the first to post it the honor is all mine and you can kiss my feet every time you use my strat."</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Positive dev post.  He must of said something right..</P> <P>wow</P>

[Hazeroth]

No guild was specifically targetted for my ire. But it's good that you picked up on my tone.I have to wonder, if someone, somewhere had come up with the tactic and sat on it because of a belief that the fewer people that could kill him the more elevated their status as a premier raiding guild. A "I got mine, you're just going to have to get yours," attitude.Tactics doesn't nessissarally end with the game.I wrote it in such a way as to possibly "convince" those that have brillant ideas for other encounters to share with the raiding community. Because if they don't then all glory goes to someone else who does post it.<Plus I like to roleplay an arrogant bard<span>:smileywink:</span>.><div></div>

[Occisor Regi]

<DIV>we pwn'd him by just having healers realize that they can't heal through the DoT, they need to cure it.  So everyone jousted, and when people got ported, the healers cured them, then healed.  Not an overly difficult fight, killed it our 2nd time in zone (1st time was mainly sightseeing).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kiting is interesting, i'm a big fan of guilds coming up w/ their own/unique strats, i know my guild has done a number of encounters in untraditional ways (having a conj tank godking...for example).  so yea, gratz on the kill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ja]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hazeroth wrote:<BR>No guild was specifically targetted for my ire. But it's good that you picked up on my tone.<BR>I have to wonder, if someone, somewhere had come up with the tactic and sat on it because of a belief that the fewer people that could kill him the more elevated their status as a premier raiding guild. <BR><BR>A "I got mine, you're just going to have to get yours," attitude.<BR><BR>Tactics doesn't nessissarally end with the game.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>I wrote it in such a way as to possibly "convince" those that have brillant ideas for other encounters to share with the raiding community</FONT>. Because if they don't then all glory goes to someone else who does post it.<BR><BR><Plus I like to roleplay an arrogant bard<SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN>.><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i try my best to help with that</DIV>

[Fews]

<P>Looks like a fun strat for you, thats cool.</P> <P> </P> <P>You seem upset that raiders don't share strats much. Well I actually like it that we, and others don't. Makes it possible for more people, more guilds, to use their own creativity and imagination to come up with their own solution. They may come up with the same solution as others, but they got the joy of figuring it out themselves, or uncovering clues from other guilds.</P> <P>I think it will be sad, when all people do is go to ogaming and pull up the strat for each raid encounter and just mimic the moves. Yawn. So I hope guilds don't widely publish strats. Some of the excitement in the game will be lost. Sure it is tempting for people (Many times a person in the guild, but not the person or persons who came up with the strat ) to gain "fame" by publishing it(I am not implying this is th case here at all). </P> <P>Oh well.</P> <P>Figuring out raid mobs is one of the last places in MMOGs that isn't just a lookup in ogaming. I would say it is better for game play and fun that it stays that way.</P> <P>Fewson - Level 70 Wizzy</P> <P>Dark Horizon</P> <P>The Bazaar </P> <P>P.S. <P>Would you have come up with the novel kiting strat if a way was already laid out in ogaming? (And btw...no you don't need bards in every group, yes we kill this mob first pull the first night in, and on the second pull our next time in the zone).</P> <P>I think your strat looks fun and out of the normal box, but don't disparage other guilds for not sharing strats, don't think that sharing a fully laid out strat is nobel. All it leads to is mindless play in my opinion, but you are free to disagree.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Fewson on <span class=date_text>12-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 AM</span>

[arieste]

<DIV>There are three main parts to raiding imo:  1. Strategy  2. Execution 3. Adjusment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The need for Adjusment can be brought down to 0 if your Strategy and Execution are right.   The best guilds in the game have all 3. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, the point of this quick analysis is that for some guilds, Execution is all the fun.  The don't have strategists and people who sit there reading every line of a log for hours between raids trying to figure out how to do things.  For some guilds, it's all about "doing it".  I think for them, having raids on ogaming would be awesome.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Me personally, I don't want to have a strat laid out for me, but neither do I want to have to spend days wiping just to figure out that the dragon kills the 3rd conjurer in the 2nd group every time a troubador farts while jumping which causes the conjurer's pet to become charmed by the dragon thereby giving the dragon a cold-based AE that effects only female druids assuming it is night outside during the raid...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Figuring out what a mob does is not strategy, it comes from the ability to best decypher poorly logged text...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Strategy is figuring out how to use what you have to beat what the opponent has. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anyhoo...i'm not sure i actually have a point here <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[arathym]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> arieste wrote:<BR> <DIV>There are three main parts to raiding imo:  1. Strategy  2. Execution 3. Adjusment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The need for Adjusment can be brought down to 0 if your Strategy and Execution are right.   The best guilds in the game have all 3. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, the point of this quick analysis is that for some guilds, Execution is all the fun.  The don't have strategists and people who sit there reading every line of a log for hours between raids trying to figure out how to do things.  For some guilds, it's all about "doing it".  I think for them, having raids on ogaming would be awesome.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Me personally, I don't want to have a strat laid out for me, but neither do I want to have to spend days wiping just to figure out that <STRONG><FONT color=#99ff33>the dragon kills the 3rd conjurer in the 2nd group every time a troubador farts while jumping which causes the conjurer's pet to become charmed by the dragon thereby giving the dragon a cold-based AE that effects only female druids assuming it is night outside during the raid...</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Figuring out what a mob does is not strategy, it comes from the ability to best decypher poorly logged text...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Strategy is figuring out how to use what you have to beat what the opponent has. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anyhoo...i'm not sure i actually have a point here <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Oooooh.  Good idea, thanks!  I'll have to adjust it a bit though now that it's already been posted... :smileyvery-happy:, I guess that falls under #3 though.<BR>

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> arathym wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> arieste wrote:<BR> <DIV>There are three main parts to raiding imo:  1. Strategy  2. Execution 3. Adjusment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The need for Adjusment can be brought down to 0 if your Strategy and Execution are right.   The best guilds in the game have all 3. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, the point of this quick analysis is that for some guilds, Execution is all the fun.  The don't have strategists and people who sit there reading every line of a log for hours between raids trying to figure out how to do things.  For some guilds, it's all about "doing it".  I think for them, having raids on ogaming would be awesome.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Me personally, I don't want to have a strat laid out for me, but neither do I want to have to spend days wiping just to figure out that <STRONG><FONT color=#99ff33>the dragon kills the 3rd conjurer in the 2nd group every time a troubador farts while jumping which causes the conjurer's pet to become charmed by the dragon thereby giving the dragon a cold-based AE that effects only female druids assuming it is night outside during the raid...</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Figuring out what a mob does is not strategy, it comes from the ability to best decypher poorly logged text...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Strategy is figuring out how to use what you have to beat what the opponent has. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anyhoo...i'm not sure i actually have a point here <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Oooooh.  Good idea, thanks!  I'll have to adjust it a bit though now that it's already been posted... :smileyvery-happy:, I guess that falls under #3 though.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I knew it!</P> <P>~Hawke</P>

[Sosum]

<div><blockquote><hr>arathym wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> <hr> </blockquote>Oooooh.  Good idea, thanks!  I'll have to adjust it a bit though now that it's already been posted... :smileyvery-happy:, I guess that falls under #3 though.<hr></blockquote>Thank god Im a froglok....</div>

[arieste]

<P>OMGz!  WW 1st!!1!!one!!!11  figured out wuoshi strat without ever entering EH! rwaxx0r... all j00 n00bs sux,  LDL server 4tw 4evah!</P> <P>or something...</P> <P><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Cyanbane]

<div><blockquote><hr>arieste wrote:<div></div><div>Me personally, I don't want to have a strat laid out for me, but neither do I want to have to spend days wiping just to figure out that the dragon kills the 3rd conjurer in the 2nd group every time a troubador farts while jumping which causes the conjurer's pet to become charmed by the dragon thereby giving the dragon a cold-based AE that effects only female druids assuming it is night outside during the raid...</div><hr></blockquote>*In my best Sienfeld voice*"What IS the deal with Troubadors and gas?"</div>

[Killerbee3000]

<div><blockquote><hr>arieste wrote:<div></div> <p>OMGz!  WW 1st!!1!!one!!!11  figured out wuoshi strat without ever entering EH! rwaxx0r... all j00 n00bs sux,  LDL server 4tw 4evah!</p> <p>or something...</p> <p><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>top secret start to solo avatars:make a new templar (class doesn't really matter), pick the most stupid name you can think off (tinkerbell, legolas, pwnsyou are good examples) and then walk up to the avatar you want to kill, attack him and he will drop dead from laughng.........</div>

[Argyuile]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fewson wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>Looks like a fun strat for you, thats cool.</p> <p>You seem upset that raiders don't share strats much. Well I actually like it that we, and others don't. Makes it possible for more people, more guilds, to use their own creativity and imagination to come up with their own solution. They may come up with the same solution as others, but they got the joy of figuring it out themselves, or uncovering clues from other guilds.</p> <p>I think it will be sad, when all people do is go to ogaming and pull up the strat for each raid encounter and just mimic the moves. Yawn. So I hope guilds don't widely publish strats. Some of the excitement in the game will be lost. Sure it is tempting for people (Many times a person in the guild, but not the person or persons who came up with the strat ) to gain "fame" by publishing it(I am not implying this is th case here at all). </p> <p>Oh well.</p> <p>Figuring out raid mobs is one of the last places in MMOGs that isn't just a lookup in ogaming. I would say it is better for game play and fun that it stays that way.</p> <p>Fewson - Level 70 Wizzy</p> <p>Dark Horizon</p> <p>The Bazaar </p> <p>P.S. </p><p>Would you have come up with the novel kiting strat if a way was already laid out in ogaming? (And btw...no you don't need bards in every group, yes we kill this mob first pull the first night in, and on the second pull our next time in the zone).</p> <p>I think your strat looks fun and out of the normal box, but don't disparage other guilds for not sharing strats, don't think that sharing a fully laid out strat is nobel. All it leads to is mindless play in my opinion, but you are free to disagree.</p> <p>Message Edited by Fewson on <span class="date_text">12-01-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:33 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote> I think the reason a lot of people get used to just looking it up on ogaming is the lack of clues that the devs like to give you especially with quests. Look at the Speak as a dragon quest 26 runes scattared across all of norrath. You think people the devs didnt have to drop people a bone? You think sombody just got lucky and found the one under the bridge in the ferrot I call bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on that. If you throw people a bone in game they wont be compeled to look it up on ogaming everytime they are stuck on something. I do it myself just out of habit on quests because at this point I just assume that the quest itself has no clues in it that will help me.Then when you start raiding your almost conditioned to just look up the strat first.Having said all that.  A) Just because you use a published strat dosnt mean you can execute it.    B)  Just because a published strat worked for someone else dosnt mean its gonna work for you.   C) Even when you have a strat you sometimes adjust your tactics becasue you raid makeup is different or just because you have better gear.

[Gungo]

<P>some raids have an actually strats and execution, most are straight up fights, a few require tricks. </P> <P>The strats and execution- like princes and cheldrak are fun</P> <P>The striaght up fights are any fight w just melee an aoe even the occasional mem wipe- these are fun the first time you beat it and thats it- 80% of eq2.</P> <P>The trick fights are the annoying fights that are really like the striaght up fight, but require some obscure inside info. Key example VENEKOR. Completely [Removed for Content] encounter requiring no skill but making sure people are not afk to make a run to an obscure point in zone so they can all stand together. </P>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I agree gaige has changed =/. To me it seems he is more bitter and sarcastic then before. Probably becuase he hangs with peeps that complains alot. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Read some of my old posts about guardians, tanking, monks, etc.  I've been bitter and sarcastic this entire time.  Sorry that you think Dissolution has changed me somehow.  If anything, GMG has changed my outlook about EQ2, but /meh.</P> <P>Oh and as for the best progression in an MMO blah blah at the end of your paragraph, I have one word for you:  Naxxramas.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hey like i said i haven't been the first nor last person to say this gaige. Have I? Other then the guy i qouted. I have had several people tell me you changed for the worse, but you don't need to take my word for it. I have no problem with the majority of people in disso and i have no problem with you, really. I am just telling you what most people don't care to tell you.

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neon_24 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ah so the truth comes out your implying we zerged it cause we did not kill it as fast as you guys? top notch there Gaige way to put yourself on a pedistal. ya know i used to have a bit of respec for you when you were a monk/bruiser but now your as much a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as Cusashorn sometimes.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm not implying that at all.  In fact I'm aware with the new revive mechanics even trying that would be stupid.  I'm just saying, having killed him, I don't see how or why you'd have to fight it for 40 mins.  That's all.  I'm just trying to figure out why it would take that long.</P> <P>You should know if I'm trying to say something, I'll say it.  So quit looking for conspiracy theories.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Prior if guilds didnt kill the shredder on first pull or agro'd it early he would bug out and his aoe timer would not reset thus causing double AOE's. Not that he was extremely hard but u hard to get him the first time or you would probably have alot more repairs then needed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I agree gaige has changed =/. To me it seems he is more bitter and sarcastic then before. Probably becuase he hangs with peeps that complains alot. There will always be something to complain about. The key difference now you look at most things half empty. Instead of looking at all the great changes in eq2 diminshing returns is good overall. The best expansion overall to date, more raids in 1 tier then eq2 has ever had. Content that is starting to get progressive in gear and combat. While everything is not perfect. Its getting there and still is better then any MMO on the market. Take it as what it is worth (a observation) or just flame on. Its really your choice.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>If only gaige was talking about The Shredder.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually the first paragraph was pertaining to another post above this one. The second paragraph was in reference to the qoute. Sorry if i confused you.<BR>

[FightGame]

<DIV>It seems to me that it would be ALOT harder for the tank to hold aggro, if they are constantly moving away from the mob.  As soon as the mob gets stunned/stifled or whatever, and the tank isn't in auto attack range, it will immeditely switch targets to whoever IS in his range.  But, whatever works for you.  Grats on the kill.</DIV>

[Illustrious]

<P>Sounds like fun thats for sure.</P> <P> </P> <P>Dont think we will ever bother tho, the 3-4 secs warning he gives you is plenty enough to joust it with  only the occasional casualty from a ported toon who gets ae and feared away from the healers.</P>

[FlintAH]

<div><blockquote><hr>FightGame wrote:<div>It seems to me that it would be ALOT harder for the tank to hold aggro, if they are constantly moving away from the mob.  As soon as the mob gets stunned/stifled or whatever, and the tank isn't in auto attack range, it will immeditely switch targets to whoever IS in his range.  But, whatever works for you.  Grats on the kill.</div><hr></blockquote>If he is stunned he wont attack them anyways and it isnt really aggro loss.</div>

[FightGame]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FlintAH wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FightGame wrote:<BR> <DIV>It seems to me that it would be ALOT harder for the tank to hold aggro, if they are constantly moving away from the mob.  As soon as the mob gets stunned/stifled or whatever, and the tank isn't in auto attack range, it will immeditely switch targets to whoever IS in his range.  But, whatever works for you.  Grats on the kill.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If he is stunned he wont attack them anyways and it isnt really aggro loss.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Try it sometime.  I can easily lose aggro from simply backing away from the mob.  Regardless of number of taunts/dps landing just prior.<BR></P>

[FlintAH]

<div><blockquote><hr>FightGame wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> FlintAH wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> FightGame wrote: <div>It seems to me that it would be ALOT harder for the tank to hold aggro, if they are constantly moving away from the mob.  As soon as the mob gets stunned/stifled or whatever, and the tank isn't in auto attack range, it will immeditely switch targets to whoever IS in his range.  But, whatever works for you.  Grats on the kill.</div> <hr> </blockquote>If he is stunned he wont attack them anyways and it isnt really aggro loss.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Try it sometime.  I can easily lose aggro from simply backing away from the mob.  Regardless of number of taunts/dps landing just prior.</p><hr></blockquote>just b/c he switches targets doesnt mean you have lost aggro</div>

[Hazeroth]

<P>When I first envisioned the tactic there was still a multiple pot bug in the game. Because of this the window of when the "Last" vase dropped to when they all exploded was so small the danger of having the tank move then stop only to get hit by that last bugged vase was to great.</P> <P>Now that the vases appear to be fixed a much simpler tactic is all that is needed.</P> <P>Just have someone keep an eye out for when the Shredder says something about "Opps did I drop that"  or "Take a deep breath" or some such, that will be the time that the vase is dropped.</P> <P>When that happens just run the tank from the far right corner of the shredder's room to the far left. (and vise-a-versa). Just make sure everyone backs off when the Vase drops and have them re engage the shredder once the MT is in the other corner.</P> <P> </P> <P>(Still, as a bard, my first inclination would to to continue the kite technique, but some people don't have the attention span to learn the art of the 1 hour kite. A pity.)</P><p>Message Edited by Hazeroth on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:48 AM</span>

[Aandien]

Why move the tank? Just have a healer cure him.  The first tick of that DOT does less damage then his auto-attack.  Just tell one of your MT healers to use cure spells -- If your raiding FTH anyway, I would assume your healers are already capable of doing this.

[Argyuile]

    I make the my tank scream cure and then trade me 1PP before I cure him.<div></div>

[Caetrel]

It's an easy joust, the mob is pretty simple now that he doesn't go apes%$& if you don't beat him first pull. In fact it is the easiest joust ever.  When he says anything, get out,  Don't even need chat box, you can watch the word balloons over his head 8P.  No timer necessary. Only tricky part is people seem to get in a port loop, and I am not sure what causes this, but he was yoinking the same person or two to him every time.  This problem is its own solution- just have a healer grab a target on that port victim before every vase drop and insta- cured.  Or leave that person dead heh. <div></div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>I'm not sure if this his vase droping and porting has been fixed.  When we try him he seems like he should be easy enough, but he ports 3+ people every 15 secs or so.  It's very annoying and that's the only thing that makes him hard.</P> <P>From talking to other people they report having 3-4 people ported the entire fight.  I'm not sure if we're just missing something... but it seems his multi-porting hasn't been fixed.</P>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikemcmodmike wrote:<BR> <P>I'm not sure if this his vase droping and porting has been fixed.  When we try him he seems like he should be easy enough, but he ports 3+ people every 15 secs or so.  It's very annoying and that's the only thing that makes him hard.</P> <P>From talking to other people they report having 3-4 people ported the entire fight.  I'm not sure if we're just missing something... but it seems his multi-porting hasn't been fixed.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Read the note closer:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>*** Zones ***<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG>-  Freethinker Hideout:  Zylphax the Shredder will no longer drop multiple vases or summon more than 6 people after a raid wipe.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So he can summon up to 6. Its working as intended.</P>

[Feltrak]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Argyuile wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You seem upset that raiders don't share strats much. Well I actually like it that we, and others don't. Makes it possible for more people, more guilds, to use their own creativity and imagination to come up with their own solution. They may come up with the same solution as others,<BR>I think the reason a lot of people get used to just looking it up on ogaming is the lack of clues that the devs like to give you especially with quests. Look at the Speak as a dragon quest 26 runes scattared across all of norrath. You think people the devs didnt have to drop people a bone? You think sombody just got lucky and found the one under the bridge in the ferrot I call bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on that. If you throw people a bone in game they wont be compeled to look it up on ogaming everytime they are stuck on something. I do it myself just out of habit on quests because at this point I just assume that the quest itself has no clues in it that will help me.<BR><BR>Then when you start raiding your almost conditioned to just look up the strat first.<BR><BR>Having said all that.  A) Just because you use a published strat dosnt mean you can execute it.    B)  Just because a published strat worked for someone else dosnt mean its gonna work for you.   C) Even when you have a strat you sometimes adjust your tactics becasue you raid makeup is different or just because you have better gear.<BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No dev threw us a bone. We spent 3 weeks scouring the world finding them. If you look at the zones they are in , the order they are in the quest log with respect to their locations, you could narrow it down and say that there was 1 more in feerrott...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, my guild spent 3 weeks scouring the world to find them. Yes we TRADED locations of them with other guilds. At the time it was an epic quest that felt epic. Now it's, pull up ogaming and spend 2 hours running around.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and I even remember the guy who found that feerrott one. It was Duxa for our guild.</DIV>

[THteampink]

Is it common to only get one shot at the 3rd named then have him go NPC and never go aggro again?<div></div>

[Fews]

<P>As I said in another post, I normally don't give out strats. But your question deserves a straight answer because I don't consider the answer giving out a strat, and that the non-agro part is too subtle to clue people what they need to do....So....</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>He will not go agro until you have 24 people in the room.</P> <P>Fewson - Level 70 Wizzy 80AA</P> <P>Dark Horizon</P> <P>The Bazaar</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Fewson on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:54 PM</span>

[THteampink]

Oh I knew that, I meant even when we had all 24 people in the room he wouldn't aggro =/  Thanks for the response though<div></div>

[Caetrel]

<hr size="2" width="100%">pick the most stupid name you can think off (tinkerbell, legolas, pwnsyou are good examples) <hr size="2" width="100%">LOL There is at least one Legolas, an Ownz, and many Tinkerbells on Guk. <div></div>

[Pins]

Try having everybody leave the room and re-enter rather than having those who FD'd stay in the room like a bunch of dumb[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s.

[Aandien]

<DIV>The 3rd named can get buggy -- and while FD'ing might be part of the reason, there apparantly are other ways.  We somehow bugged him after wiping and could not reactivate him.  We had everyone evac, leave the room, run to entrance, come back 2-3 times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In any event, if you tried those things and it still doesn't reactivate (which would clear it up if you had FD / not full wipe issues) -- then you'll need to have people start camping and coming back.  Eventually the person who is causing the bug will actually camp and then he'll work properly again.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Just don't camp all at once and close down the instance.</DIV>

[Fews]

<DIV>The reason for the bug is that the vampire never watched another vampire who was well known on TV, "The Count" from Sesame Street. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. So he messes up in his counting of whose in his room or not when certain things happen. :p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1   2    3   4  .... 23. 23 in room. </DIV> <DIV>No, we have 24..</DIV> <DIV> No, you have 23 and I refuse to go hostile without 24 peeps to fight me<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Fewson on <span class=date_text>12-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:41 AM</span>

[THteampink]

So just out of pure curiosity, do you have to have 24?  Will he not activate if you don't have a full raid?<div></div>

[Aandien]

<P>You don't have to have 24.  We've engaged him previously with 21 in an earlier week.</P> <P>And there is still a bug regardless.  We had no one leave the zone, started with 24, fought him with 24, wiped (and no one FD'd mind you) and he stopped working, until a few people camped out and came back.</P> <P>I have no idea how to reproduce the issue though, as it's only happened once to us.  I just know that camping and coming back fixes it should it happen to you.</P><p>Message Edited by AncientElster on <span class=date_text>12-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 PM</span>

[RBent72]

<P>My guild and I are having a terrible time with Othysys Muravian.  We never had a problem with the shredder, but for whatever reason we can't get this guy.  Someone told me that he is the THIRD named in the zone, and if that's the case, that may be our problem, we always get to him second, and can't seem to find a third. </P> <P>We've tried standing by the portal and just having a tank grab the preservers as they pop in while everyone else attacks named, we've tried killing the preservers, we've tried killing the x2 Souls (in less than 30 seconds as someone suggested on another website), and every time we basically get the named down to 40% before we get overwhelmed by the x2 Souls, and a preserver gets away to heal the named.</P> <P>Is this just a straight up burn on the named while someone rounds up the preservers or what?  When the named points at a person and they're X2 soul pops, that person is perma-stunned, and it doesn't take too long before you've lost a good chunk of your dps.  As I said, we were able to kill the X2 in less than 30 seconds, and that actually made them pop faster (3 spawns in 48 seconds as I remember).</P> <P>I'd appreciate any hints, clues, spoilers, ambiguous references, whatever you have.</P> <P> </P> <P>-this space for rent</P> <P> </P>

[kellan123]

Anyone notice any 80's music references from the vampires in Freethinkers? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I'll leave you guys to figure it out. (although it's not hard)<div></div>

[SinIsLaw]

<div></div>The 3rd name, Treyloth D'Kulvith, feels a bit over the top ... u enter the room wait the he turns form NPC to Aggro and B00M 70-80% of ur raid can end up dead ... Kinda stupid that u have a mob who can destory almost the whole raid with an AE on incoming! So you pretty much have a rez party and end up waiting 10+ min for repair  kits to refresh ...It's kinda hard to figure that one out, if outta 10 tries loose most of the raid on 8 attempst. And you pick ur brain why u managed 2 decent attempts where everything seemed similar ...

[Urglu]

<DIV>I think something is still up with Shredder.  I swear it's like he is scripted to port only our healers until we've wiped 5+ times.  I've talked to other guilds and they don't have the same problems, but every single time in the zone so far he has decided to chain port 3+ healers the first few attempts.  We can't survive with 3 healers out of commission almost the whole fight, so we end up losing half our armor before he decides to play "fair" and we kill him.  Should luck have that much of an impact on success rate? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes we could run him in laps to combat this BS but honestly it's not fun, and much too long a way to do it.</DIV>

[Ellrin]

Happening to us to every single time it seems to be the healers getting summoned and feared.<div></div>

[Hazeroth]

<DIV>Since he is no longer dropping multiple vases, gauging the time when he drops his one vase is very easy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now that you don't have to worry about the MT moving out of the way and stopping and having another vase placed at his feet you no longer have to do laps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The tactic we use now is a much more simpler version (no tactic is perfect the first few times and hammered out the problems to the first tactic).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We all form up before the first pillar in the room. Any further in and the Shredder will agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then we have the MT charge the Shredder and pull him off the pedistal and to the back right corner.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As the MT runs up we all follow him and casters and healers place themselves on the pedistal and begin to do their thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Vase timer starts on agro so you don't have to worry about the Shredder leaving a present on the pedistal before he follow the MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once everyone is in position the Melee do some upclose damage but is mindful of the timer of the first vase since you have to estimate the time (for you guys that use parcers with AoE timers).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Depending on how on the ball you are you can keep Melee DPS up until he says something or have the AoE timer raid member call out a warning that the next vase is about to drop in a second or to and start moving back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once the vase does drop the MT will also joust. For all intence and purposes pulling the Shredder to the opposite corner (far left hand).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once the MT is in the new corner the melee players will charge the new corner, (if done right no one will get hit by the AoE, but beware parcer AoE timer guys, if no one is hit you will get no timer update, so don't use the name of the actual spell hitting people use the precanned phrase he uses to start the next timer).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if your healers get ported they will not get hit by the AoE and after the fear wears off in a few second have the people who got summoned run back to the pedistal and continue the fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this helps you all with that Named, once you get this down you should get him the first time with no deaths or at least one or two slow people will get the hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Silentchord, lvl 70 Dirge</DIV> <DIV>Journeymen of the Overlord</DIV> <DIV>Antonia Bayle</DIV>

[Grozmok]

<div><blockquote><hr>RBent72 wrote:<div></div> <p>My guild and I are having a terrible time with Othysys Muravian.  We never had a problem with the shredder, but for whatever reason we can't get this guy.  Someone told me that he is the THIRD named in the zone, and if that's the case, that may be our problem, we always get to him second, and can't seem to find a third. </p> <p>We've tried standing by the portal and just having a tank grab the preservers as they pop in while everyone else attacks named, we've tried killing the preservers, we've tried killing the x2 Souls (in less than 30 seconds as someone suggested on another website), and every time we basically get the named down to 40% before we get overwhelmed by the x2 Souls, and a preserver gets away to heal the named.</p> <p>Is this just a straight up burn on the named while someone rounds up the preservers or what?  When the named points at a person and they're X2 soul pops, that person is perma-stunned, and it doesn't take too long before you've lost a good chunk of your dps.  As I said, we were able to kill the X2 in less than 30 seconds, and that actually made them pop faster (3 spawns in 48 seconds as I remember).</p> <p>I'd appreciate any hints, clues, spoilers, ambiguous references, whatever you have.</p> <p>-this space for rent</p> <hr></blockquote>Okay, since people flamed me when I posted a detailed walkthrough of other raids on these forums, let me give you this:This fight is very, very easy if you have a few fighters on the raid, and everyone on their toes with deaggroes.The adds spawning is directly related to the DD (Prone to Corruption). The adds can be directly avoided with none spawning.The resulting strat, and seeing it play out, is simply hilarious.</div>

[Repxsrz]

Lol, a little vague...

[RBent72]

<DIV>Grozmak yer killin' me!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I admit that I enjoy the ambiguous response, but if you got flamed posting more info on these forums, you could try putting a little more info on eq2.raidmobs.com, and you can do it all undercover.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or send me a tell or email in game, although I'm gonna work on what you wrote.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chemos</DIV> <DIV>70 Paladin</DIV> <DIV>Najena Server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Budgiette]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Urglunt wrote:<div>I think something is still up with Shredder.  I swear it's like he is scripted to port only our healers until we've wiped 5+ times.  I've talked to other guilds and they don't have the same problems, but every single time in the zone so far he has decided to chain port 3+ healers the first few attempts.  We can't survive with 3 healers out of commission almost the whole fight, so we end up losing half our armor before he decides to play "fair" and we kill him.  Should luck have that much of an impact on success rate? </div> <div> </div> <div>Yes we could run him in laps to combat this BS but honestly it's not fun, and much too long a way to do it.</div><hr></blockquote>All the guilds Ive spoken to are having this problem, but the most interesting thing about these healers is that they are druids!!  Anyone else noticed this interesting aspect?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Budgiette on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:46 AM</span>

[Caetrel]

<hr size="2" width="100%">All the guilds Ive spoken to are having this problem, but the most interesting thing about these healers is that they are druids!!  Anyone else noticed this interesting aspect? <hr size="2" width="100%">He loves our 2 furies.  It can actually work to your advantage, just assign a healer for cures to each druid/ healer he is porting in a "loop".   You won't have to scramble after different feared people, just joust and burn.  The fight got really easy for us when we realized how predictable the port can be. <div></div>

[Amon`]

<DIV>If you are having trouble with the first or second named in here you are going to be unpleasantly surprised with the 3rd one. He is about 10 times harder than these first 2 which are very very easy. As he is now, he is a complete different level of difficulty imo.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amon` wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you are having trouble with the first or second named in here you are going to be unpleasantly surprised with the 3rd one. He is about 10 times harder than these first 2 which are very very easy. As he is now, he is a complete different level of difficulty imo.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Which is actually how a raid zone should be implemented.<BR>

[marci1000]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>All the guilds Ive spoken to are having this problem, but the most interesting thing about these healers is that they are druids!!  Anyone else noticed this interesting aspect?<BR> <P>Message Edited by Budgiette on <SPAN class=date_text>12-13-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:46 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No, I get ported everytime and I am a Templar.<BR>

[Amon`]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amon` wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you are having trouble with the first or second named in here you are going to be unpleasantly surprised with the 3rd one. He is about 10 times harder than these first 2 which are very very easy. As he is now, he is a complete different level of difficulty imo.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Which is actually how a raid zone should be implemented.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree, I like this.

[Repxsrz]

<DIV>OK, I am a Fury and the first mob is REALLY easy, however, I feel bad for our Warden...I dont know what he does, but he is completely owned again and again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it adds a little comedy to that particular encounter :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[3C HAVOK]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amon` wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you are having trouble with the first or second named in here you are going to be unpleasantly surprised with the 3rd one. He is about 10 times harder than these first 2 which are very very easy. As he is now, he is a complete different level of difficulty imo.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Naw, hes not 10 times harder, Once you get the strat on him and figure him out, its gettign the strat right thats a pain, Once you get it hes not that bad. Its a fun fight though, One of my favorites ATM, Him, Chel`Drak and Clockworks i think are all a blast, Takes the whole raid working as one and focused. I love those kind of fights rather then Bash Mob heal Tank type of fights.

[Toredorf]

<DIV>Why he summon healers firts?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My theory is that the summon is like the single rampage from Eq1 but affect up to 6 players. Rampage only affected 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For those that never raided eq1 this is how it worked. The second person to agro the named will get hit by the rampage and if that person die then the rampage will hit the 3rd in agro and ect. In this case the next 6 people to get into the hate list of the named after the mt(he is firts agro) will be randomly summon, if one of those 6 people die then the next in hate list will get summon and so on. Since healer usually get into the hate list at the same time as the tank (cause of pre heals) thats why they are usually the ones getting summoned firts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But if you avoid the ae timing it and moving the tank from a corner to another no one will die.</DIV>

[Grozmok]

I've answered all the PMs folks sent me. Don't try to send me a tell (Euron, Nagafen), unless you make a toon there.<div></div>

[Tazr]

<P>We had something wierd happen in freethinkers last night, that we couldnt figure out/explain.  Throw bones, pull center mob, kill, np.  Throw right bone, pull left, both mobs in camp, we are beating away doing fine, then all of a sudden the other 2 (That had reset just fine) suddenly ran in.  At first we thought just someone got close, but we watched it and everyone was flat against the door, it just kept happening.  Finally we just had our coercer memblur and we were able to carry on like normal.</P> <P>Anyone seen this or just a zone bug anomaly for us?</P>

[Flor]

Check out <a href="http://www.ethereallegacy.com" target=_blank>www.ethereallegacy.com</a> if you looking for an optimal position on the third mob so your raid wont get hit by neither seering nor reaching.And about the fact that the mob goes active and kills 2/3 of the raid? Make sure you leave one person outside when you charge the room, get everyone in the spot, tank ready, buffed up and only THEN have the last person enter the room. The mob will go active in about 10 sec after that. P.S. Im pretty sure there are plenty of positions that work on this mob, this one worked the best for us tho. Make sure you have the WHOLE raid in the same spot, if you watch the video you will see even one step behind the raid will mean death to those ppl, we had 2 that werent in position and instantly died when the reaching hit.

[Fews]

<P>Yep, looks like this game is turning into easy mode FTW.</P> <P>Not suprised EL will start providing howtos. Course EL gets strats from other guilds...so might as well just pass it around. They have done some innovations such as Death Coordination.</P> <P>Pretty soon every raid mob will have ...put toons here at spot marked X. Tank at Y. Clicky buttons Z times. FTW. lol.</P> <P>I much prefer the Devs way of creating tutorial raid mobs/zones for people to learn how to raid, what techniques are out there and to learn how to strategize and execute. Than for loser guilds like EL to layout tactics(and given EL you can't even know if this simple tactic was given to them or figured out[and it's not hard to figure out(we did after the first pull of the mob many weeks ago)] ) for others to copy.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Fewson on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:10 PM</span>

[Fews]

<DIV>Oh and hints are one thing(which I don't mind at all), explicitly giving people a step by step, and/or put you toon at point marked X is just promoting the advancement of those that can't figure anything out on thier own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Flor]

Awww, dont be sad Fewson, ill be posting a movie on the last named too, this way noobs like your guild can actually kill it. I heard you guys been trying for like 2 weeks now, is ok, once i post the video you will be able to see how is done <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Fews]

<DIV>Lol,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Least we don't depend on people telling us strats from NPU and Chaotic Legion as EL did. An EX-EL member who now in our guild said that was the only way EL figured out any strats. They actually said it was refreshing to be in a guild that actually works to figure out strats vs having them given to them from an outside guild.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yep, we have to work on mobs. We have many people with jobs who end up logging(Even I work a fulltime job). So our amount of pull time is reduced. Since we actually work on strats, each pull progresses us. It is much more fun to work for something, than just have it handed to you  as a script to repeat. Even if it means others can kill the mob before us. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is actually our first week on the final mob and we almost killed it. Why the first week? Well because people wanted to tryt to do some things out of order before the mob before this ..and that had some results, which required us to wait till our next zone reuse. That happens when you try things, when you experiment. Much easier if you just have someone lay it all out for you, as EL has had done for them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually we almost had killed that mob, if people had not been tired and had to sleep for work, we would have. Not bad for our first time on the final mob. But why worry about what we are doing, EL needs more strats so you need to get your contacts in those other guilds to get em to ya so you can post them here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Fewson on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:27 PM</span>

[Tazr]

hehe I dont <EM>think </EM>this is referring to my reply, but if it is, I'm talking a minor issue with the bone throwing mobs at the very entrance <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Don't need to give me strats!

[Fews]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tazric wrote:<BR> hehe I dont <EM>think </EM>this is referring to my reply, but if it is, I'm talking a minor issue with the bone throwing mobs at the very entrance <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Don't need to give me strats!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Naw, you are asking a legit question. Yes, if Florin is claiming he was giving the strat as a reply to your question that would make his message even less reasonable. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I was talking about was EL's(Ethereal Legacy)/Florin(also known as Portos on the bazaar server) message. His message provided links  to (What I assume) is a full video of the fight for the second to last mob in zone, as well as in the message  giving specific postioning information for the raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My posts have nothing to do with the first mob issue you are having. In respect to your problem the mobs can aggro the bone thrower if the bone thrower doesn't clear out in time. But from the quick read of your post it may be something else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Fewson on <SPAN class=date_text>12-15-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:35 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Fewson on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:18 PM</span>

[Flor]

NOOB...the thread is called " Re: Freethinker Hideout Tactics"So pls take your hate to another forum , this is not the place. Some ppl were asking for help and i directed them to another web site...if you dont want to look, noone is forcing you.

[RBent72]

<DIV>I don't know why people get so bent out of shape about other people posting hints or even walkthroughs.  I've been playing videogames since Pong, and sometimes, ya just get stuck.  Think the game is too easy?  Don't look up the hints.   All of us pay a monthly fee to have fun, and everyone should have it, whether you look up walkthroughs or you're the type that doesn't even use the map because you want to discover everything on your own.  Either way, have fun, and let others do the same.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and thanks to all of you that posted hints and ideas  :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chemos Andon</DIV> <DIV>70 Paladin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[JFanta]

<DIV>How to trigger the boss in FH ?  We killed the 3rd named, but can't find the boss..:smileysad:</DIV>

[psubull]

zone's cake. /tell everfrost.kerr or /tell everfrost.buzo for strats on this whole zone<div></div>

[Amon`]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 3C HAVOK wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amon` wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you are having trouble with the first or second named in here you are going to be unpleasantly surprised with the 3rd one. He is about 10 times harder than these first 2 which are very very easy. As he is now, he is a complete different level of difficulty imo.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Naw, hes not 10 times harder, Once you get the strat on him and figure him out, its gettign the strat right thats a pain, Once you get it hes not that bad. Its a fun fight though, One of my favorites ATM, Him, Chel`Drak and Clockworks i think are all a blast, Takes the whole raid working as one and focused. I love those kind of fights rather then Bash Mob heal Tank type of fights.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I say he is alot harder because of his abilities. Even after figuring him out you can still have a couple things possibly go wrong like a freak knockback or a slow cure which can ultimately lead to a raid wipe if people aren't on their toes. Our guild lost a lockout on him after knowing "how" to beat him, it was just a matter of fine tuning and positioning.</P> <P>Malkonis is a little different story. If he wasn't orange I would rate him at the same difficulty as the other mobs in this zone (excluding Treyloth). His abilities can easily be dealt with in a 100% manner as long as people follow directions. Figuring him out is easy too, you just need to look around. Our first pull got him to around 40% and only wiped then because someone moved or lagged into a spot they should not be.</P> <P>I am pretty surprised our guild got the server first on Malkonis without getting the first on Treyloth, imo they should swap these two guys and their levels as well... or make Malkonis harder. Lol Treyloth:20ish attempts(hours), Malkonis:3 attempts(minutes), SOE:crazy.</P>

[3C HAVOK]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amon` wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 3C HAVOK wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amon` wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you are having trouble with the first or second named in here you are going to be unpleasantly surprised with the 3rd one. He is about 10 times harder than these first 2 which are very very easy. As he is now, he is a complete different level of difficulty imo.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Naw, hes not 10 times harder, Once you get the strat on him and figure him out, its gettign the strat right thats a pain, Once you get it hes not that bad. Its a fun fight though, One of my favorites ATM, Him, Chel`Drak and Clockworks i think are all a blast, Takes the whole raid working as one and focused. I love those kind of fights rather then Bash Mob heal Tank type of fights.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I say he is alot harder because of his abilities. Even after figuring him out you can still have a couple things possibly go wrong like a freak knockback or a slow cure which can ultimately lead to a raid wipe if people aren't on their toes. Our guild lost a lockout on him after knowing "how" to beat him, it was just a matter of fine tuning and positioning.</P> <P>Malkonis is a little different story. If he wasn't orange I would rate him at the same difficulty as the other mobs in this zone (excluding Treyloth). His abilities can easily be dealt with in a 100% manner as long as people follow directions. Figuring him out is easy too, you just need to look around. Our first pull got him to around 40% and only wiped then because someone moved or lagged into a spot they should not be.</P> <P>I am pretty surprised our guild got the server first on Malkonis without getting the first on Treyloth, imo they should swap these two guys and their levels as well... or make Malkonis harder. Lol Treyloth:20ish attempts(hours), Malkonis:3 attempts(minutes), SOE:crazy.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>He is alot harder but not 10 times harder. Tryloth is a fun fight one of my favs. yea we should have had the zone clear but people had to log and we lost dps, it happens. Still once you get his strat down he is kind of a push over, Just need to have everyone do what they should be doing and its gravy.  

[Amon`]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 3C HAVOK wrote:<BR> <BR>He is alot harder but not 10 times harder. Tryloth is a fun fight one of my favs. yea we should have had the zone clear but people had to log and we lost dps, it happens. Still once you get his strat down he is kind of a push over, Just need to have everyone do what they should be doing and its gravy.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah sucks when that happens, I am sure most raiders can relate to that. I was pretty surprised when I heard you guys got him, you all are doing really well - cheers.<BR>

[Ja]

<DIV>People helping each other out shrinks <FONT color=#33cccc><STRONG>Fewson</STRONG></FONT>'s [Removed for Content].   </DIV>

[Fews]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jabs wrote:<BR> <DIV>People helping each other out shrinks <FONT color=#33cccc><STRONG>Fewson</STRONG></FONT>'s [Removed for Content].   </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>pffft!. Lol</P> <P>I never mind people helping each other. I do not like full layout step by step of a raid zone. Since your site's main cause is for that, I am sure you want to minimize my thoughts that might suggest that isn't best for game enjoyment.</P> <P>When people say "send me a tell if you need help on a zone", thats great. Because hopefully the person getting the tell helps them enough, but not so much the challenge is lost.</P> <P>But If every step we had to do to raid was laid out, it sure would make raiding more boring. High end guilds get their information from all sorts of sources. The best can figure out mobs on their own. The next can figure out with a little prodding. The worst need it handed to them on a silver platter. </P> <P>I prefer helping people move up that food chain and not just stagnate in thier abilities by providing too much information.</P> <P>I like how Devs had raid zones designed to teach people to raid. Much better than someone just telling someone to stand here[without telling them how they figured out that you need to stand there..no we just don't randomly stand places.lol]</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Fewson on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:53 PM</span>

[xen0n]

If the devs want to make strats that require the raid to be a certain distance from the mob like matron and a few in EoF, they should make a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] feature that tells you how far you are from the mob. This is np for dps as we can find a decent range and stack on someone who is monitoring it, but the healers have a much harder time healing through the mob when it mem blurs etc. My 2c.

[Ja]

<DIV>Sharing is caring.    Afterall, 'tis the season!</DIV>

[RoenynShadowDancer]

<P>One simple tactic to the Shredder and you will never lose again. Fight him near zone of course. He summons from the BOTTOM of the hate list not the top or middle. So who is usually at the bottom? Healers. This is why all you knucklehead healers are getting summoned non stop and pwned.</P> <P>Have 2 people get undressed (Save on gear because they will die 10 x) 2 People that arent ESSENTial to the raid.</P> <P>Have assassins put hate on healers or have them nuke as well (just to stay off the bottom)... All healers should at least run up and tag shredder once or twice in melee. This will put them on the list numerically and with the hate gain from scouts/coercers will stay mid hate list and off the summons list. = keeps your MT alive.</P> <P>Have the 2 people undressed hit the mob only ONCE then back off, just like healers.. They will be summoned everytime. When the 2 people die, they have to rinse and repeat. When they run back to mob hit it once and they will be summoned again and again til fights over... Its all about managing the BOTTOM of the hate list to keep healers off it.</P> <P>Joust the 20 second AE with melee dps and you win this fight flawless.</P> <P>Its the second named we have trouble with.</P> <P> </P>

[Brigh]

WW summons those at the bottom of the hate list.Die, run in, pluck an arrow / take one swing/ sneeze on him and you are summoned.Do steady damage and you are not ported.

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Brigh wrote:<BR>WW summons those at the bottom of the hate list.<BR><BR>Die, run in, pluck an arrow / take one swing/ sneeze on him and you are summoned.<BR><BR>Do steady damage and you are not ported.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>take a monk get him to hit shredder a few times and back off , sit there till ported to him and fd <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> see monks do have uses

[22224446]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkMirrax wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Brigh wrote:<BR>WW summons those at the bottom of the hate list.<BR><BR>Die, run in, pluck an arrow / take one swing/ sneeze on him and you are summoned.<BR><BR>Do steady damage and you are not ported.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>take a monk get him to hit shredder a few times and back off , sit there till ported to him and fd <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> see monks do have uses<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO