Deathtoll [Removed for Content]!!

[gnarkill]

Ok after todays update notes KoS zones fixed? HELL no!! We went into DT all with 8-9k cold/heat resists and the FIRST deathless gazer was ONE hitting the raid for 10-12k cold or heat damage...This is BS! Make old zones harder? Fine go ahead...but dont nerf the loot..how can people get to the resist levels they need to for the "new" DT if the gear has garbage resists on it? Its not even worth it...As of today 11-17-06 Deathtoll is BROKEN...I love this game but I am seriously gonna quit (no you cant have my stuff its attuned) if this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is not fixed...The trash in DT should not be one hitting a WHOLE raid....SoE has severly screwed this game up as of the 14th...I usually stick up for SoE and try to hang on hoping they fix stuff but this is just unacceptable and disheartening<div></div>

[VainDragon2]

<DIV>Same exact thing for us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know it's problem, you 'fix' it in a patch, and it's still like this?  It takes like what 5 mins to zone in put on 8-10k cold resist and see that you're still getting 1-shotted. If i checked in code like that after being tasked to fix it i'd be fired. </DIV>

[Torninn]

<DIV>"Ok after todays update notes KoS zones fixed? HELL no!! We went into DT all with 8-9k cold/heat resists and the FIRST deathless gazer was ONE hitting the raid for 10-12k cold or heat damage...This is BS! Make old zones harder? Fine go ahead...but dont nerf the loot..how can people get to the resist levels they need to for the "new" DT if the gear has garbage resists on it? Its not even worth it...As of today 11-17-06 Deathtoll is BROKEN...I love this game but I am seriously gonna quit (no you cant have my stuff its attuned) if this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is not fixed...The trash in DT should not be one hitting a WHOLE raid....SoE has severly screwed this game up as of the 14th...I usually stick up for SoE and try to hang on hoping they fix stuff but this is just unacceptable and disheartening"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lead pipe, gun, knife, rope, cyanide, ever-expanding buttplug, dynamite, shard o' glass, gasoline + matchstick, hammer to skull, sharp stick to eye, taunting of mike tyson...</DIV> <DIV>instead of quitting just use one of the above to end your "unacceptable and disheatening" misery.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Biggtoe</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[gnarkill]

<div><blockquote><hr>Torninn wrote:<div>"Ok after todays update notes KoS zones fixed? HELL no!! We went into DT all with 8-9k cold/heat resists and the FIRST deathless gazer was ONE hitting the raid for 10-12k cold or heat damage...This is BS! Make old zones harder? Fine go ahead...but dont nerf the loot..how can people get to the resist levels they need to for the "new" DT if the gear has garbage resists on it? Its not even worth it...As of today 11-17-06 Deathtoll is BROKEN...I love this game but I am seriously gonna quit (no you cant have my stuff its attuned) if this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is not fixed...The trash in DT should not be one hitting a WHOLE raid....SoE has severly screwed this game up as of the 14th...I usually stick up for SoE and try to hang on hoping they fix stuff but this is just unacceptable and disheartening"</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>lead pipe, gun, knife, rope, cyanide, ever-expanding buttplug, dynamite, shard o' glass, gasoline + matchstick, hammer to skull, sharp stick to eye, taunting of mike tyson...</div> <div><b>instead of quitting just use one of the above to end your "unacceptable and disheatening" misery.</b></div> <div> </div> <div>Biggtoe</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>You forgot slashing my wrists with my eq2 CD's =p</div>

[Torninn]

<DIV>"You forgot slashing my wrists with my eq2 CD's =p"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lol good one...but you screwed up my insult damm you!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Aven Elonis]

<DIV>Same here, I had a 64% cold resist and was taking 7K in damage. And of course we couldn't seem to get a zone when the "invis'ed" eyeball was on top of us when we zoned in. And yup the AoE was taking out large parts of the raid force at a time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We punted and went to "test" AoA 4x again.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Aven Elonis on <span class=date_text>11-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:29 PM</span>

[gnarkill]

Yea whats up with that eye camping the zone in worse then usual? Alot of people have been saying that same thing<div></div>

[Untalent]

It's a pitty they didn't do any testing before putting this on the live servers. Do the dev's not understand how it feels to be perfectly capable and then letting us pay for an expansion then just pulling the carpet out from right under out feet? It feels like [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. It really doesn't seem honest the way they did things either. Telling us that we'd be tanking better etc. etc. Fixing avoidance... mitigation... yadda yadda. Then this trash of a patch hits.<div></div>

[Aven Elonis]

<P>A suggestion for all that have data (parse logs, etc). Compare your recent DT run vs the last DT before EoF. </P> <P>Post for a given mob (eyeball for example) - Length of Battle, Damage to MT and Total Heath of Mob. Also compare AoEs before and after.</P> <P>This information will, I suspect be very hepful for a fix.</P> <P>Note - I've been feeding info on AoA 4x to SoE. The trash seems corrected now, but the end dragons appear to need some work yet.</P>

[Vormulac]

<P>how about they just pull thier head from thier [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s and realize that making combat changes effects more than just your new [Removed for Content] content lol.  /shrug im enjoying the challenge of eof content atm [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] kos till it gets fixed if it ever does.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Vormulac Unsleep</P> <P>Guild Leader <A href="http://shatteredmoon.org" target=_blank>Shattered Moon</A></P> <P>Neriakithicor</P>

[Akacia]

<P>It's really kind of funny, frustrating and down right bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] all at the same time this game. We also went into DT today and pretty well took us all about 8 or so deaths to kill one gazer due to the resists and having to swap out wether it was cold or whatever on each try/pull to the next one which is unacceptable and extremely time consuming.</P> <P> </P> <P>We called it a night and said screw this, was funny I had 3 people in my guild tonight quit the game due to the garbage and frustration and yeah they did actually nuke their account not threaten. To comment on the person above in regards to testing this first - this game has never tested thigns before going live, at least extremely little, they get us to test it and get ticked off and people quit hence one of the MANY reasons there is such a low population in this game and these changes to the game since the expansion even though they may have gotten a lot of people to pay the $40.00 a lot have also quit since these changes are absolute garbage and do not balance the game AT all and do nothing more then make this game more frustrating and irritating 2 years into launch. The only good thing is there are other games on the horizon so you won't necessarily have to get used to playing another style for 12 months only for them to change it ALL again on you</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Lord Morain Daknar]

<DIV>I completely agree with the OP, I'm [Removed for Content] off as hell about this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have been working hard on getting our first Tarinax kill for a long time. Our best tries we've had him to 17% and 11% so we were pretty close, and then on november 18 we zone in and get our [Removed for Content] handed to us by the first deathless gazer? that's utter bs!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have two characters who only need Tarinax to finish claymore so this was a big slap in the face. Having the new raid zones be extremely hard would be a good thing, they should take some time for ppl to finish, but at the same time making the old stuff harder is annoying as hell</DIV>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>They did the same thing in T6, Remember Darathar and how mad people were that didnt finish their prismatic1.0? Allthough we did beat him before they fixed it but he was on farm status long before DoF so we knew the strat but he was definetly hard as hell before they eventually made him killable by anyone with 24 people. I just hope they don't over-tweak it and make it so anyone can zone-in and pwn the zone we worked so hard to learn.</DIV>

[Crychtonn]

<P>Short review of DT after our run on Friday - </P> <P>Zone in Gazer is back to his old habit of camping the zone in.  Really sucks to have everyone loose 10-20% armor just for zoning in.  We'll probably have the raid stay out of zone in distance next time and send in one sacraficial lamb to let us know when it's safe next time.</P> <P>Basic mob review - </P> <P>Gazer probably still need a little tweaking.  They aren't unkillable but the AE's do seem to be on the high end.</P> <P>Worms are probably good in their current form.  They do hit alot harder then before but aren't on the extreme end like the Gazers.</P> <P>Ytklik (whatever that first guys name is) needs a bump up imo.  He went down very fast with almost no challange.</P> <P>Fitzpitle is good as he is and seemed to be the same difficulty as before.</P> <P>Amorpheous Drake seemed to die faster then before but not much difference.  The two blobs he splits into on the other hand definitely need to be looked at.  Those two blobs were by far the hardest mobs to kill that we got to.</P> <P>Tarinax was about the same as he was before.  We didn't end up killing him but that was more from how late it was and having lost almost all our coercer/dirge/hate xfer people to sleep.  The Drake and two goo's had sucked up to much time.  Without the hate gain classes the tanks just couldn't hold the aggro through the mem wipes.  We did get him down to 30 and 40% on the few pulls we tried before the tanks lost control.  I'd say anyone that could kill him before should have no problems now.</P> <P>Cruor I can't comment on since it got to late and we lost to many people so we did not get to him.</P> <P> </P> <P>In summary, DT is doable but it is more difficult.  The Gazers and the two blobs from the Drake should be looked at though.  And please have someone fix that damm Gazer at the zone in.  Zoning in to be instantly killed is just flat out stupid and annoying.</P> <P> </P>

[gnarkill]

<div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div> <p>Short review of DT after our run on Friday - </p> <p>Zone in Gazer is back to his old habit of camping the zone in.  Really sucks to have everyone loose 10-20% armor just for zoning in.  We'll probably have the raid stay out of zone in distance next time and send in one sacraficial lamb to let us know when it's safe next time.</p> <p>Basic mob review - </p> <p>Gazer probably still need a little tweaking.  They aren't unkillable but the AE's do seem to be on the high end.</p> <p>Worms are probably good in their current form.  They do hit alot harder then before but aren't on the extreme end like the Gazers.</p> <p>Ytklik (whatever that first guys name is) needs a bump up imo.  He went down very fast with almost no challange.</p> <p>Fitzpitle is good as he is and seemed to be the same difficulty as before.</p> <p>Amorpheous Drake seemed to die faster then before but not much difference.  The two blobs he splits into on the other hand definitely need to be looked at.  Those two blobs were by far the hardest mobs to kill that we got to.</p> <p>Tarinax was about the same as he was before.  We didn't end up killing him but that was more from how late it was and having lost almost all our coercer/dirge/hate xfer people to sleep.  The Drake and two goo's had sucked up to much time.  Without the hate gain classes the tanks just couldn't hold the aggro through the mem wipes.  We did get him down to 30 and 40% on the few pulls we tried before the tanks lost control.  I'd say anyone that could kill him before should have no problems now.</p> <p>Cruor I can't comment on since it got to late and we lost to many people so we did not get to him.</p> <p>In summary, DT is doable but it is more difficult.  The Gazers and the two blobs from the Drake should be looked at though.  And please have someone fix that damm Gazer at the zone in.  Zoning in to be instantly killed is just flat out stupid and annoying.</p> <hr></blockquote>Sounds you like you got a different version of DT then us...And i dont wanna hear its cuz you are better blah blah etc..The trash are one hitting fully fabled raids...All for nerfed loot that is not worth it anymore....End of story</div>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ta2demon wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crychtonn wrote:<BR> <P>Short review of DT after our run on Friday - </P> <P>Zone in Gazer is back to his old habit of camping the zone in.  Really sucks to have everyone loose 10-20% armor just for zoning in.  We'll probably have the raid stay out of zone in distance next time and send in one sacraficial lamb to let us know when it's safe next time.</P> <P>Basic mob review - </P> <P>Gazer probably still need a little tweaking.  They aren't unkillable but the AE's do seem to be on the high end.</P> <P>Worms are probably good in their current form.  They do hit alot harder then before but aren't on the extreme end like the Gazers.</P> <P>Ytklik (whatever that first guys name is) needs a bump up imo.  He went down very fast with almost no challange.</P> <P>Fitzpitle is good as he is and seemed to be the same difficulty as before.</P> <P>Amorpheous Drake seemed to die faster then before but not much difference.  The two blobs he splits into on the other hand definitely need to be looked at.  Those two blobs were by far the hardest mobs to kill that we got to.</P> <P>Tarinax was about the same as he was before.  We didn't end up killing him but that was more from how late it was and having lost almost all our coercer/dirge/hate xfer people to sleep.  The Drake and two goo's had sucked up to much time.  Without the hate gain classes the tanks just couldn't hold the aggro through the mem wipes.  We did get him down to 30 and 40% on the few pulls we tried before the tanks lost control.  I'd say anyone that could kill him before should have no problems now.</P> <P>Cruor I can't comment on since it got to late and we lost to many people so we did not get to him.</P> <P> </P> <P>In summary, DT is doable but it is more difficult.  The Gazers and the two blobs from the Drake should be looked at though.  And please have someone fix that damm Gazer at the zone in.  Zoning in to be instantly killed is just flat out stupid and annoying.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds you like you got a different version of DT then us...And i dont wanna hear its cuz you are better blah blah etc..The trash are one hitting fully fabled raids...All for nerfed loot that is not worth it anymore....End of story<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'll take Bitter for $1,000 Alex</DIV>

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ta2demon wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Sounds you like you got a different version of DT then us...And i dont wanna hear its cuz you are better blah blah etc..The trash are one hitting fully fabled raids...All for nerfed loot that is not worth it anymore....End of story<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It's called adjusting to the mobs and not treating them like the [Removed for Content] things they were before.  Everyone in our raid got taged for 7-10K plus on zoning in from the stupid Gazer that camped the zone in.  So no it wasn't a different version of DT it was the same everyone else here has talked about.    If the Gazers were one shotting your entire raid after that it means your raid was treating them like you did before and sat inside the AE range.</P> <P>If you hadn't acted like a little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in your post I would have offered up some tips to help.  But since you did I'll just go with your theme and say - Yes it's cuz I'm better - and leave it at that .... End of story.</P> <P> </P>

[gnarkill]

<div></div><div></div>Im not bitter at all, I dont need gear from there lol..I am saying as of now the risk/reward is pointless to even zone in...And Crych you are my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] end of story<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by ta2demon on <span class=date_text>11-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:35 PM</span>

[Crychtonn]

<P>Hahahahaha damm you got me good with that one :smileysurprised:</P> <P>/tosses Gnarkill another bitter pill</P> <P>Open wide.</P> <P> </P>

[Anfauglith]

Actualy I mostly agree with Crych.Comming from the MT of a guild that did not killed tarinax yet...on sunday 19 nov, eyes were one shoting 6-10 people per fight (more or less).Most wurms groups seamed ok except the groups of 3 epic 2x ones that were doing about twice more dps than any other wurm encounter.We were able to reach Drake but died on split and didn't tryed a second time as it was late and most people were naked at that time.<div></div>

[jinxedup]

you know things are getting bad when a [Removed for Content] like crychtonn is offering advice on how "tough" DT is -- [Removed for Content]

[woolf2k]

Can I have your stuff?<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I wanna vendor sell it so I can getmore cash for some better resist gear it seems.<div></div>

[Raolador]

<div><blockquote><hr>ta2demon wrote:<div></div><div></div>Im not bitter at all, I dont need gear from there lol..I am saying as of now the risk/reward is pointless to even zone in...And Crych you are my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] end of story<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by ta2demon on <span class="date_text">11-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">03:35 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Gnarkill, I recommend better resists and more debuffs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As with any KoS zone really - more practice and it is still very much doable.</div>

[gnarkill]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raolador wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ta2demon wrote:<BR> Im not bitter at all, I dont need gear from there lol..I am saying as of now the risk/reward is pointless to even zone in...And Crych you are my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] end of story<BR> <P><BR><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by ta2demon on <SPAN class=date_text>11-20-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:35 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Gnarkill, I recommend better resists and more debuffs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As with any KoS zone really - more practice and it is still very much doable.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I never said it wasnt doable...Its just not worth the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nerfed loot you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]<BR>

[Raolador]

<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> ta2demon wrote: <P></P> <P>The trash in DT should not be one hitting a WHOLE raid....<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>No. It shouldn't be one hitting an entire raid. You're doing something wrong, if it is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I don't disagree, though - there needs to be some more tuning when it comes to the overall raid progression. </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> ta2demon wrote: <P>I never said it wasnt doable...Its just not worth the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nerfed loot you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>You say that you pull the mob and the entire raid instantly dies?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It sounds like this raid is simply not doable for your guild, or at the very least your strategy. Now would be the time to re-learn what you've been given. To take down this encounter I would recommend the use of AE immunity abilities, AA's that reduce AE range, INT debuffs, etc to give yourself a better chance at making it past the first mob. Take a look at your logs and you might be able to time when the AE will be coming and when it won't. Plan accordingly <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fabled gear would also help - I recommend the starter EoF raids, or even labs for a few key pieces to improve your overall resists and HP. DT is slightly more difficult than before, but still trivial if you understand what you have and when to use it.</DIV>

[kittypack]

Why do people constantly find the need to measure theire-[Removed for Content]. who cares, it is a game, not your life. Just c h e e l...

[t0iletduck]

Leave the useless trash talk between your leet pvp guilds to the naggy forums please. Anyway, we went back to DT last night and it has been fixed. It's definately harder than before, but doable. <div></div>

[Dwergux]

<blockquote><hr>t0iletduck wrote:Leave the useless trash talk between your leet pvp guilds to the naggy forums please. Anyway, we went back to DT last night and it has been fixed. It's definately harder than before, but doable. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Regarding DT, we went there last friday. Did any of you notice a big decrease in drops from trash? We used to get about 6 chests from trash, now we only got 1 chest from trash. Could have been bad luck, but I just want to check it.

[FuRiouSQ]

Did DT sunday and i lost count in how many master chests we got, it was like running in a Labs raid. <div></div>

[Dwergux]

<blockquote><hr>FuRiouSQ wrote:Did DT sunday and i lost count in how many master chests we got, it was like running in a Labs raid.<div></div><hr></blockquote>If your labs raids are like ours than counting the master chests isn't that hard <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (unless you include the MC's from all named mobs)

[Margen]

<P>We did Deathtoll on Saturday, while it is doable, its a hell of lot harder.   The eyes IMHO opinion need to have their heat dots tooned down a bit.  At 8.2k HR, I was taking between 1.6 and 2.4k a tick.  </P> <P>Since not every group is going to have a group Heat cure (unless you bring 10 healers with you) it has a tendancy to eat people up quickly.  Especially when some of the eyes recast the dang thing like every 10 seconds.  </P> <P>The cold damage I have no problem with and I always found the charming of the MT fun (of course I a biased I am usually the secondary tank). It was doable, but the zone takes alot longer and can be frustrating at times.  The eyes are trash mobs and while they shouldn't be a walk in the park, they also shouldn't be chain casting heat dots.</P> <P>Oh, we are a fully fabled guild btw.</P>

[Magnethjelmen2]

<div></div>Did DT last night, I dont see any big problems <span>:smileyindifferent:</span> I cannot see any problems with the eyes, the biggiest problem we had was the drake blobs, which seemd to have more HP imo, but not sure. Tarinax seemed to be nerfed, he was very easy for us <span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Magnethjelmen2 on <span class=date_text>12-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:21 PM</span>

[Jayad]

We've done it twice since the nerfing.  Overall it seems very similar to before.  The eyes and splitting drake seem to be more difficult, while Tarinax is easier.   I agree the fire AOE from the eyes is a bit high.  Even with very good fire resists you get hit pretty hard.  It doesn't need to be taken down a whole lot, just a notch or so.  With regular gear on (not swapping to resist gear for trash mobs), you seem to take more damage than you should.  Taking it down by about 20% would keep it saucy but not smackdown level.<p>Message Edited by Xney on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 AM</span>

[Argyuile]

    Did deathtoll on Sunday1) They eyes are no longer wiping the entire raid with there AE, so this is fixed even if resists in general are still broken IMO.2) The trash mobs that would kill us where the x2 worms these things where causing MUCH more of a problem than any x4 or x3 in the zone.   They hit like x4's but there where just more of them.   Is anyone else having this problem?3) Amorphous drake only had time for 2 pulls because we started late but.1st pull MT dies in under 2 seconds.2nd pull I had 5k wards on the secondary tank and his mitigation was 6k and he died so fast, I couldnt cast my insta heal. While we have been killing the amorphous drake now for over a month with no problems I'm willing to try this some more before I scream for a nerf.  But the x2 worms REALLY need a good look.<div></div>

[Roriondesexiest]

<blockquote><hr>Argyuile wrote:    Did deathtoll on Sunday1) They eyes are no longer wiping the entire raid with there AE, so this is fixed even if resists in general are still broken IMO.2) The trash mobs that would kill us where the x2 worms these things where causing MUCH more of a problem than any x4 or x3 in the zone.   They hit like x4's but there where just more of them.   Is anyone else having this problem?3) Amorphous drake only had time for 2 pulls because we started late but.1st pull MT dies in under 2 seconds.2nd pull I had 5k wards on the secondary tank and his mitigation was 6k and he died so fast, I couldnt cast my insta heal. While we have been killing the amorphous drake now for over a month with no problems I'm willing to try this some more before I scream for a nerf.  But the x2 worms REALLY need a good look.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah I noticed that also, huge spike damge from the x2 worms, watched the tanks health ping pong on them for some reason.<div></div>

[Computer MAn]

Cleared DT the other night seemed even easier than usual. The only wipe we had was to the Drake because we just got sloppy and weren't paying attention. Tarinax seemed even more of a joke than he was pre-EOF the mem wiped seem less common and our tanks took almost no damage. I think the zone needs to be beefed up IMO but in no way needs another nerf. If the heat dot is killing you than you need your healers to cure faster or get faster at group heals.<div></div>

[Argyuile]

<blockquote><hr>Computer MAn wrote:Cleared DT the other night seemed even easier than usual. The only wipe we had was to the Drake because we just got sloppy and weren't paying attention. Tarinax seemed even more of a joke than he was pre-EOF the mem wiped seem less common and our tanks took almost no damage. I think the zone needs to be beefed up IMO but in no way needs another nerf. If the heat dot is killing you than you need your healers to cure faster or get faster at group heals.<div></div><hr></blockquote> Heat DoT wasnt killing me, the x2 worms where.

[Illustrious]

<DIV>All seems fixed now tho Tarinax seems a fair bit easier than b4, done zone 2 times since EoF and cleared both. Its not right that the 2 drake blobs are now the toughest mobs in the game tho while the tari himself is now a walkover.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tari may be easier now tho purely due to improved pathing, sometimes in the past the mob would memwipe but when tank got him back  he would be behind the tanks facing the rest of raid, and with his knockback hes then hard to reposition b4 he does his frontal, 2 times since EoF he has behaved himself in that respect tho and stayed facing right way the entire fight apart from the odd second during memwipes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yitzak = about the same as b4 (easy)</DIV> <DIV>Gnome= about same as b4</DIV> <DIV>Drake = much harder now but still doable (hardest mob in zone now imo which shouldnt be so)</DIV> <DIV>Tari = quite a bit easier now (should be toughest mob in zone but is now easy)</DIV> <DIV>Cruor = about the same (ok challenge still for many)</DIV>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>We did DT last night and noticed some things.  The eyeballs killed some people but the only real difference is people actually had to put on resist gear /oh noes!  Before you didn't even need to so I think the eyeballs are OK. </P> <P>We noticed the x3s and x2 trap trash were hitting harder too.  We actually wiped to 2 x3s hehe.  They seem to hit like x4s but there are 2 of them.  Once we were prepared for it (healers weren't nuking) then it was OK. </P> <P>We skipped the amorphous drake.  Heard he was harder and only had one shaman and were low healers so didn't bother trying.</P>

[Henladar Bloodheart ~]

<DIV>Did DT tonight. Was just normal except for a few surprises... the blobs from the drake did seem to hit a bit harder but it died. By this time we had what would of been a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty raid to do tari with pre EoF. Coercer and Troub mana regen wise.. and not the best DPS... didnt even have an Assassin nor Swash. Im expecting to get my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] kicked. First pull got him 33%... hes a total puss now.</DIV>

[R/T93]

<DIV>The x2 worms hit twice as hard as before, Yitzik hits twice as hard as before, Fitzpitzle was the same, Amorphous drake hits 3x as hard as before (drake form) and the blobs hit twice as hard as before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We used to be able to school the drake with 5 healers, done it with 5 many times, but last night i dont think we could have done it with 7, they were hitting the tanks for 5-7k right after the split then instantly heading for the healers = game over.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Eyes were the same as before from what it seems, people just need to boost their resists to not get shmoked</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This raid was on 12/9</DIV>

[Mabes]

Did DT on saturday night, and I'd agree with most of what everyone is saying, the zone seems fine now, with the exception being the amorphous drake is considerably much harder, he's hitting very hard now.  Tarinax is a joke now, they nerfed his hp to like nothing.<div></div>

[gnarkill]

This zone is fine now...First time since the first week of EoF when we went in...Last time we went in it was ALOT diffrent...Seems to be right on scale atm<div></div>

[Argyuile]

<blockquote><hr>ta2demon wrote:This zone is fine now...First time since the first week of EoF when we went in...Last time we went in it was ALOT diffrent...Seems to be right on scale atm<div></div><hr></blockquote> Unless Im compleatly [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] the X2 and X3 worms should not be harder than the x4 mobs in the zone.

[Domiuk]

<DIV>amorphous drake is by a fair margin the hardest mob in the zone now.  (toned down a tiny bit would be good)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the worms while much tougher were far from unbeatable and im not convinced they really need toning down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That the trash can kill you in a zone like DT if your not on your game is in my opinion fine as long as it doesnt have millions of HPS turning the trash into a chore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The 2 blobs are both hitting the same sort of numbers Tarinax used to do <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Argyuile]

<blockquote><hr>Domiuk wrote:<DIV>amorphous drake is by a fair margin the hardest mob in the zone now.  (toned down a tiny bit would be good)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the worms while much tougher were far from unbeatable and im not convinced they really need toning down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That the trash can kill you in a zone like DT if your not on your game is in my opinion fine as long as it doesnt have millions of HPS turning the trash into a chore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The 2 blobs are both hitting the same sort of numbers Tarinax used to do <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><hr></blockquote> So your saying that X2 and x3 mobs should be harder than x4 mobs?

[Henladar Bloodheart ~]

Dont think he ever said that.. way to put words in someone's mouth. Now here is what i'm gonna tell you.... if you are complaining about some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] worms that are still easily killed then get the hell out of the zone cause you have no chance at clearing it. Or at least stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing just because you want to.

[Argyuile]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Henladar Bloodheart ~ wrote:<div></div>Dont think he ever said that.. way to put words in someone's mouth. Now here is what i'm gonna tell you.... if you are complaining about some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] worms that are still easily killed then get the hell out of the zone cause you have no chance at clearing it. Or at least stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing just because you want to.<hr></blockquote> He said everything was fine. If you notice there was a question mark at my end of the sentance indicating that it was in fact a question, hence the question mark. I appologize for making that difficult for you to understand next time I will be sure to end my sentances with a "?!?!?!?!?!" so you will have a greater chance of understanding. My problem is not that the worms are hard or that they are easy my problem is that the x2 and x3 worms are HARDER than the x4 worms. Let me exlain. The x2 means its for a 2 group raid and the x3 means that its for a 3 group raid. The x4 means its for a 4 group raid therefore the x2 should be easier than the x4. I know its a difficult concept to grasp and I'm sorry I didnt spell it out for yout the first time Henladar. Your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about me [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing? Telephone sound: Briiiiing Briiiiing *click* Voice 1: Hello? Voice 2: Hello Pot. This is kettle YOUR BLACK! *click*<p>Message Edited by Argyuile on <span class=date_text>12-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:47 PM</span>

[mikemcmodmi]

One annoying thing I forgot to mention.  We got aggroed by an eyeball zoning in.  This is very annoying.  Some people lost 30% armor trying to zone into the freaken zone.  That is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Move the first eyeball or remove him completely please.  No one should get aggroed zoning into a zone.

[Lariu]

<DIV>AD = badass now. Sort of anyway. The blobs chewed our tanks up rediculously fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tarinax went down fast though. Although I think we've been capable of owning him like that for a while, just never played that well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fitz is still [Removed for Content]. The droag is still a trash mob. The eyeballs were no worse than before. Just have healers who are awake curing elemental.</DIV>

[MoonSorceror]

Did DT first time after NERV today and it was terrible. We were getting to Amorphous Drake before and working on it (mainly matter of gearing up a 2nd tank). But now lots of wipes due to crap mobs - eyes killing raid with one AE cause it did 2.5k a tick and worm trap quickly killing tank due to a little 10 hit combo of unresisted 2.5k meelee hits, Fitz not resetting where he was due but healing up, wiping the raid and resetting only then.Sorry guys - anybody who said KoS zones are supposed to be what they were before lied!<div></div>

[Lariu]

<DIV>Those eyes always could wipe a group if the dot wasn't cured. Wake up your healers and step up the dps a bit. They go down easily enough. Put a fury/warden in the vulnerable groups for group cure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for Fitz, it happens sometimes. Rez and redo. It shouldn't happen twice. No point crying about it. It's not like repair fees cost as much as they used to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AD is really mean now though. Well, the blobs are. You want a very solid hate setup on the Virulent's tank and give your dps the nod to 'unload'. The virulent needs to die v fast or your tank is only going to live for so long.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and the worms - well we didn't lose any tanks but it was close. We'd heard they'd been upped in dps a bit so we had a monk go and trigger all the traps first. That way we could control the encounter more easily. Some of those encouters are pretty nasty, the ones with 3 x epicx3 worms is a toughie.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Lariuss on <span class=date_text>12-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:11 PM</span>

[MoonSorceror]

> Those eyes always could wipe a group if the dot wasn't cured. Wake up your healers and step up the dps a bit. They go down easily enough. But they didn't kill the group in 2 ticks - that's what it was for us now.> Put a fury/warden in the vulnerable groups for group cure.<div></div>we don't have 4 druids, sorry...> As for Fitz, it happens sometimes. Rez and redo. It shouldn't happen twice. No point crying about it.It should not bug out at all, right? Or are you telling me this is a feature too? And btw we did DT several times before the NERV and it never bugged.> It's not like repair fees cost as much as they used to.They have recently been increased,  thank you very much SOE! Not only you cannot sell craploot any more 'cause you need to have the stuff transmuted in order to get the adornments to put you where you were before, no they increase repair cost too...> Oh, and the worms - well we didn't lose any tanks but it was close. We'd heard they'd been upped in dps a bit so we had a monk go and trigger all the traps first.Upped a bit? They are harder than nameds in the zone with their spike damage. As for the monk - been there, tried that. He got one shoted by three worms before he could hit FD or the Tank could pull aggro. Btw, the monk happens to be one of our best geared chars due to the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]load of monk gear dropping everywhere thanks to the great loot tables and the fabled RNG - we regulary have to throw it away...Please don't tell SOE the zones are alright, when YOU who did the zone with ease pre-nerv, now feel a challenge. You are geared with dropps from this zone and probably a lot more. The zone ist NOT RIGHT when hardcore raiding guilds who are way beyond that zone in the progression now feel a challenge in there!

[mikemcmodmi]

Hehe, I was just thinking.  We TRY to get fitz to bug out and not run away when we fight him.  It makes the fight more fun plus you don't have to clear all the trash that goes aggro.  It's pretty easy to do it too, as long as your tank doesn't wipe while the raid is stunned.

[Lariu]

<DIV>The reason my post sounds like I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill is because I do. DT isn't supposed to be easy, enjoy it and learn from it. If you think that stuff makes it hard, have a peek around inside Inner Sanctum or Freethinkers Hideout. That stuff really seperates the men from the boys.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the fitz bug, I've seen it happen twice before. It's annoying but you do just pick yourself up and go do it again. What's the point in moaning about it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're dying in 2 ticks from the eyes, either your healers are asleep or you're not wearing resist gear. Make sure everyone in your raid puts on resist gear before entering an area with eyes. That includes the zone in.</DIV>

[matinisback]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lariuss wrote:<BR> <DIV>The reason my post sounds like I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill is because I do. DT isn't supposed to be easy, enjoy it and learn from it. If you think that stuff makes it hard, have a peek around inside Inner Sanctum or Freethinkers Hideout. That stuff really seperates the men from the boys.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the fitz bug, I've seen it happen twice before. It's annoying but you do just pick yourself up and go do it again. What's the point in moaning about it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're dying in 2 ticks from the eyes, either your healers are asleep or you're not wearing resist gear. Make sure everyone in your raid puts on resist gear before entering an area with eyes. That includes the zone in.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it been fixed now go troll some where else seriously

[Argyuile]

<blockquote><hr>Lariuss wrote:<DIV>The reason my post sounds like I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill is because I do. DT isn't supposed to be easy, enjoy it and learn from it. If you think that stuff makes it hard, have a peek around inside Inner Sanctum or Freethinkers Hideout. That stuff really seperates the men from the boys.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the fitz bug, I've seen it happen twice before. It's annoying but you do just pick yourself up and go do it again. What's the point in moaning about it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're dying in 2 ticks from the eyes, either your healers are asleep or you're not wearing resist gear. Make sure everyone in your raid puts on resist gear before entering an area with eyes. That includes the zone in.</DIV><hr></blockquote> Im sure its easy when your geared up from that very zone from months of raiding it. However for the rest of us not so much. If you clear this zone pre LU29 than your opinion bears no meaning because YOU not US beat the zone when it was easy and now with benifit of all the loot from that zone you come back and say its easy. Ya, labs is easy as hell for us now that my force is geared with HoS, and Lyceum and Labs gear all over the place, so I really have no buisiness saying how hard Labs is just like you with DT.

[Computer MAn]

<div><blockquote><hr>Argyuile wrote: Im sure its easy when your geared up from that very zone from months of raiding it. However for the rest of us not so much. If you clear this zone pre LU29 than your opinion bears no meaning because YOU not US beat the zone when it was easy and now with benifit of all the loot from that zone you come back and say its easy. Ya, labs is easy as hell for us now that my force is geared with HoS, and Lyceum and Labs gear all over the place, so I really have no buisiness saying how hard Labs is just like you with DT.<hr></blockquote>Considering the best loot in KOS generally didn't drop from DT I wouldn't call that a valid argument. Besides tank gear most of the best gear in the game actually comes out Labs and considering you can beat the Matron in full relic if you really wanted to you should be able to clear DT without its gear.</div>

[Argyuile]

<blockquote><hr>Computer MAn wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Argyuile wrote: Im sure its easy when your geared up from that very zone from months of raiding it. However for the rest of us not so much. If you clear this zone pre LU29 than your opinion bears no meaning because YOU not US beat the zone when it was easy and now with benifit of all the loot from that zone you come back and say its easy. Ya, labs is easy as hell for us now that my force is geared with HoS, and Lyceum and Labs gear all over the place, so I really have no buisiness saying how hard Labs is just like you with DT.<hr></blockquote>Considering the best loot in KOS generally didn't drop from DT I wouldn't call that a valid argument. Besides tank gear most of the best gear in the game actually comes out Labs and considering you can beat the Matron in full relic if you really wanted to you should be able to clear DT without its gear.</div><hr></blockquote> Pre LU 29 I agree with you.

[MoonSorceror]

> The reason my post sounds like I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill is because I do. Getting personal, eh? That was to be expected...> DT isn't supposed to be easy, enjoy it and learn from it.DT is supposed to be as difficult or easy as before LU29 - at least according to what the devs said. So please SOE make it the way you said. At the moment it is way more difficult than before and wether some high end raiding guilds like it that way or not doesn't matter - it is supposed to be the way it was before, so there is a steady progression in diffculty and not a giant step after Lab (which we do beat) and maybe Lyceum (which we haven't tried lately).>  If you think that stuff makes it hard, have a peek around inside Inner Sanctum or Freethinkers Hideout. That stuff really seperates the men from the boys.We know we probably will not beat those zones anytime soon since we're not hardcore raiders and they're supposed to be a lot harder than KoS. But we would like to continue working on content the way we did before LU29 and not constantly wipe due to trash mobs running amok due to having been improperly balanced.<div></div>

[Henladar Bloodheart ~]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Argyuile wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Henladar Bloodheart ~ wrote:<BR> Dont think he ever said that.. way to put words in someone's mouth. Now here is what i'm gonna tell you.... if you are complaining about some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] worms that are still easily killed then get the hell out of the zone cause you have no chance at clearing it. Or at least stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing just because you want to.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>He said everything was fine. If you notice there was a question mark at my end of the sentance indicating that it was in fact a question, hence the question mark. I appologize for making that difficult for you to understand next time I will be sure to end my sentances with a "?!?!?!?!?!" so you will have a greater chance of understanding. My problem is not that the worms are hard or that they are easy my problem is that the x2 and x3 worms are HARDER than the x4 worms. Let me exlain. The x2 means its for a 2 group raid and the x3 means that its for a 3 group raid. The x4 means its for a 4 group raid therefore the x2 should be easier than the x4. I know its a difficult concept to grasp and I'm sorry I didnt spell it out for yout the first time Henladar. <BR><BR>Your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about me [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing?<BR><BR> Telephone sound: Briiiiing Briiiiing *click* Voice 1: Hello? Voice 2: Hello Pot. This is kettle YOUR BLACK! *click* <P>Message Edited by Argyuile on <SPAN class=date_text>12-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:47 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Here is a news flash for ya bro. When you asked that question it was a way to ask if he was implying that. He in no way implied that in the post making it a stupid post and a stupid question. Now im gonna explain some game mechanics to you since you dont seem to understand.</P> <P>While the worms may say "epic x3" it is saying the highest lvl mob is an epic x3. Therefore fighting that encounter you are fighting two epic x3's which in some cases SHOULD be harder then a single x4. It's not the fact they are hitting alot harder you are just fighting two mobs which are both hitting like x3 mobs. Both of these mobs hits added up is > then the x4 mobs hits... they are at proper difficulty now stop crying over it.</P><p>Message Edited by Henladar Bloodheart ~ on <span class=date_text>12-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:41 PM</span>

[Argyuile]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Henladar Bloodheart ~ wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Argyuile wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Henladar Bloodheart ~ wrote: <div></div>Dont think he ever said that.. way to put words in someone's mouth. Now here is what i'm gonna tell you.... if you are complaining about some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] worms that are still easily killed then get the hell out of the zone cause you have no chance at clearing it. Or at least stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing just because you want to. <hr> </blockquote>He said everything was fine. If you notice there was a question mark at my end of the sentance indicating that it was in fact a question, hence the question mark. I appologize for making that difficult for you to understand next time I will be sure to end my sentances with a "?!?!?!?!?!" so you will have a greater chance of understanding. My problem is not that the worms are hard or that they are easy my problem is that the x2 and x3 worms are HARDER than the x4 worms. Let me exlain. The x2 means its for a 2 group raid and the x3 means that its for a 3 group raid. The x4 means its for a 4 group raid therefore the x2 should be easier than the x4. I know its a difficult concept to grasp and I'm sorry I didnt spell it out for yout the first time Henladar. Your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about me [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing? Telephone sound: Briiiiing Briiiiing *click* Voice 1: Hello? Voice 2: Hello Pot. This is kettle YOUR BLACK! *click* <p>Message Edited by Argyuile on <span class="date_text">12-11-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:47 PM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote> <p>Here is a news flash for ya bro. When you asked that question it was a way to ask if he was implying that. He in no way implied that in the post making it a stupid post and a stupid question. Now im gonna explain some game mechanics to you since you dont seem to understand.</p> <p>While the worms may say "epic x3" it is saying the highest lvl mob is an epic x3. Therefore fighting that encounter you are fighting two epic x3's which in some cases SHOULD be harder then a single x4. It's not the fact they are hitting alot harder you are just fighting two mobs which are both hitting like x3 mobs. Both of these mobs hits added up is > then the x4 mobs hits... they are at proper difficulty now stop crying over it.</p><p>Message Edited by Henladar Bloodheart ~ on <span class="date_text">12-12-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:41 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Wow I didnt know the dog played EQ2.   You need Tunare bra, seriously its the only way bra you gotta find tunare. Im SO glad you explained that to me, I thought that the guy at the end of the Trueshot longbow quest that was flagged x2 and we one grouped was an x2 mob but according to your description since he had 3 adds I killed 4 epic x2's Simotanously WITH ONE GROUP I AM THE MOST UBER HEALER EVER EVER. Thanks you just put my uberness into focus for for me your my hero dog, I've found Tunare.

[Roriondesexiest]

Well I run a n00b raid group and we were able to easily get to Fitzpizzle, eyes dot does hit hard but I have a druid in each group so no issues there.  The x2 traps are hitting like a ton but we bolster and urchin the tank for them and we seem to be ok. did have something funny happen last time.  The tank was turning an eye down by the water and a trap popped right on the edge of the water (never seen it pop there before)  of course it was a x2 group so we ended up wiping and the eye we were fighting killed off all the worms then reset, very nice<span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> Going back this Friday and if we can get through all the LD's we might skip AD and go right to Tarinax. <div></div>

[Noaani]

<P>Well, after going in to DT with my guild twice since EoF, I can say that, at least for us, there is very little differant.</P> <P>The gazer at the entrance is a pain, and we did have several deaths at the start from it, as well as from people zoneing in too close to the droags (or people moving the wrong way when they first zoned in, not sure on that one). Before we got to the Hurlers area, we sent those that needed it back to Bonemire to repair (as there is no lockout to that point, and we didn't have any more deaths in the zone till we hit Cruor. Tarinax went down in a little over 4 minutes, without a single death (first time for us, he is kinda [Removed for Content] atm).</P> <P>All I can suggest for the gazers is having everyone in your raid max range it, except for healers and an OT.</P>

[Tazr]

<DIV>The eyes are out of control, we had 1 ice eye and thats the entrance mob.  Expecting 4 druids in every group is silly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Having an eye that roams right near the entrance, is not a test of skill its a test of luck.  Wiping 3 times trying to zone in is not a good way to start.  Zoning in, finally killing the first eye, then zoning out to repair is quite ridiculous.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. The named in DT with the exception of 2 of them, are easier than some trash.  Thats a real issue.  If the trash is balanced, increase the difficulty on the named and make the drops better <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  The DOT on the eyes is fine, but not so close together, thats out of control, that makes it 100% neccessary to have 4 druids, 4 druids has never really been needed for any raid content pre-Deathtoll, so its a bit of slap to have to change your raid force for the final zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Otherwise Deathtoll is fine, its a little bit more difficult, a little more challenging.  The x2 eyes hit for the same as the x4's almost but there are more of them, after debuffs its fine but gets scarey <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Roriondesexiest]

<blockquote><hr>Tazric wrote:<div>The eyes are out of control, we had 1 ice eye and thats the entrance mob.  Expecting 4 druids in every group is silly.</div> <div> </div> <div>1.  Having an eye that roams right near the entrance, is not a test of skill its a test of luck.  Wiping 3 times trying to zone in is not a good way to start.  Zoning in, finally killing the first eye, then zoning out to repair is quite ridiculous.</div> <div> </div> <div>2. The named in DT with the exception of 2 of them, are easier than some trash.  Thats a real issue.  If the trash is balanced, increase the difficulty on the named and make the drops better <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div>3.  The DOT on the eyes is fine, but not so close together, thats out of control, that makes it 100% neccessary to have 4 druids, 4 druids has never really been needed for any raid content pre-Deathtoll, so its a bit of slap to have to change your raid force for the final zone.</div> <div> </div> <div>Otherwise Deathtoll is fine, its a little bit more difficult, a little more challenging.  The x2 eyes hit for the same as the x4's almost but there are more of them, after debuffs its fine but gets scarey <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Well why don't you have someone zone in naked and check the zone, some zones have an eye that sits on the door while others don't.  <div></div>

[Tazr]

<DIV>Or just fix it *boggle*</DIV>

[Roriondesexiest]

Not trying to be a pain but why would you wipe your raid 3 x instead of just sending one person in naked so they don't take any armor damage  until you get the right zone? AFAIK the zone in has always been like that some are good, some are bad. <div></div>

[Tazr]

<DIV>I understand.  I guess my point is, there is too much luck in raiding, that could easily be replaced by skill, this is just one of those, since I was already talking about Deathtoll and someone mentioned it, I thought I would add my 2c.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think about it too, how [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] does it sound, just have somoene go in naked to check if the instance is good?  How about spend a few mins and fix the pathing so they dont get so close?  See what I'm saying?</DIV>

[superdave]

<P>i dont see a problem with the mobs in dt. use the games tools and u should be ok. i have problem with drop rat in labs and dt is way off from what it use to be. cleared both instances last week and not a single drop off any trash. not even legendary or metal chest. so if you want us to gear up for eof please fix this so we can progress thru or start eof conten. you said that you need to gear up thru kos to move onto eof. so please how are we going to do this. pretty deheartening when u clear dt for 4 named and there loot. </P> <P>use self elemental cures and up your heat/cold resists. thats what we did dont have a problem with the eyes. </P>

[Tazr]

<DIV>We found less than 20 seconds between AOE's on some of those eyes, we are talking hundreds of potions, FOR TRASH MOBS, give me a break.  Space it out to 60 seconds and I can deal with it, 20 is just stupid.  With 60 seconds we can cure it with any healer, and maybe the use of potions now and again as backup.</DIV>

[superdave]

i never saaw the eyes launch it within 20 secs of each but once. we still cured though it. i not saying space it out like to 45secs would be fair. like i said i didnt see that but once and called it a glitch. hundreds of potions i count 10 eyes in zone. two you can advoid all together and never go near them.

[Tazr]

<P>I want to clarify, our trip through Deathtoll was an absolute nightmare, we have been doing Deathtoll just fine for a while, T7 has never been an issue for us.  We had MAJOR issues with 9/10 eyes, every single one was pounding us with Fire DOT Aoe's.  The one group without a druid, was constantly dying, the groups with a druid, were saying as soon as they cured they were hit with another aoe.  I agree, 1 would be a glitch, all 9 were like that for us, it caused much death and in the end we ran out of time and power to even get to Tarinax (Weeknight raid).  </P> <P>This is our first time in DT really since EoF Launch we have been doing other things, we are geared up to the hilt to do EoF, we just did T-Max this night for a few claymore updates.  I cannot believe that others are not having the same issues.</P>

[gnarkill]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tazric wrote:<div></div> <p>I want to clarify, our trip through Deathtoll was an absolute nightmare, we have been doing Deathtoll just fine for a while, T7 has never been an issue for us.  We had MAJOR issues with 9/10 eyes, every single one was pounding us with Fire DOT Aoe's.  The one group without a druid, was constantly dying, the groups with a druid, were saying as soon as they cured they were hit with another aoe.  I agree, 1 would be a glitch, all 9 were like that for us, it caused much death and in the end we ran out of time and power to even get to Tarinax (Weeknight raid).  </p> <p>This is our first time in DT really since EoF Launch we have been doing other things, we are geared up to the hilt to do EoF, we just did T-Max this night for a few claymore updates.  I cannot believe that others are not having the same issues.</p><hr></blockquote>Eyes seem exactly the same as pre-eof to me now /shrug they were not first week of eof tho hehe..Only thing I can say is worms seem to hit harder and thats about all..Tarinax is certainly easier (not that he was hard but alot more doable for guilds who have not killed him before) You may have been rusty from not being in there for awhile =)</div>

[Tazr]

<P>Yeah, I'm sure thats what it is.  Our first raid in DT when we were half as geared we got to Tarinax, its was a pretty easy zone.  The zone is fine the eyes are fubarred, no rust I assure you.</P> <P> </P>

[gnarkill]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tazric wrote:<div></div> <p>Yeah, I'm sure thats what it is.  Our first raid in DT when we were half as geared we got to Tarinax, its was a pretty easy zone.  The zone is fine the eyes are fubarred, no rust I assure you.</p> <hr></blockquote>Dont know what to tell you man...Was fine for us</div>

[superdave]

Dont have an answer for ya. maybe it was a bugged zone. ./shrug. They need to look into it may seem with alot having problems. they need look at drop rate in those zones also. Its not just one time clearing dt and getting 4 metal chests off the named it like last 5 times. labs also. its not bad luck either. i have talk to others.<p>Message Edited by superdave on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:42 PM</span>

[Fews]

<DIV>For us, we just went through Deathtoll last night....and our raids response was.</DIV> <DIV>Wow! They must have really gimped the mobs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We still run through the zone weekly, so it can't be that we got that</DIV> <DIV>much more 'uber'. Yes, we are a hardcore raiding guild, yes, we been killing Tarinax forever.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But Taranix died in about 120 seconds. That was real fast, even for us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lariu]

<DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you people just want it all served up on a plate. How about learning and adjusting? Even the eyes with bugged out AoE's etc are NOTHING compared to the trash roaming around in Emerald Halls. You don't learn to overcome crap like this you're barely going to get through the door in this place. As for Inner Sanctum - I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you bozo's dawdle in there and get painted all over the walls. I expect a follow up post - "EoF raid zones are tooooo haaarrrdd... nerf them now or I'll cancel my account!!!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm glad EoF is so [Removed for Content] hard. You're struggling with the trash in DT? You just wait to see what's waiting for you in EoF. You come accross and obstacle that halts your raid you just get on the forums and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about it till it's changed. Tarinax is now like a frail old lady - as for the eyes, yes their AoE's may have been hard (I really don't think they are any more), but you shouldn't be losing people if they're wearing resist gear and your healers are curing. As for being 'full fabled from raiding DT every week for the last god knows how long' - you're generally not wearing that fabled gear when you're mitigating such destructive AoE's - you're wearing resist gear, quite often the same as the resist gear of every other person out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about learning to overcome? Oh, that takes skill and hard work, sorry.</DIV>

[Tazr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lariuss wrote:<BR> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you people just want it all served up on a plate. How about learning and adjusting? Even the eyes with bugged out AoE's etc are NOTHING compared to the trash roaming around in Emerald Halls. You don't learn to overcome crap like this you're barely going to get through the door in this place. As for Inner Sanctum - I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you bozo's dawdle in there and get painted all over the walls. I expect a follow up post - "EoF raid zones are tooooo haaarrrdd... nerf them now or I'll cancel my account!!!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm glad EoF is so [Removed for Content] hard. You're struggling with the trash in DT? You just wait to see what's waiting for you in EoF. You come accross and obstacle that halts your raid you just get on the forums and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about it till it's changed. Tarinax is now like a frail old lady - as for the eyes, yes their AoE's may have been hard (I really don't think they are any more), but you shouldn't be losing people if they're wearing resist gear and your healers are curing. As for being 'full fabled from raiding DT every week for the last god knows how long' - you're generally not wearing that fabled gear when you're mitigating such destructive AoE's - you're wearing resist gear, quite often the same as the resist gear of every other person out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about learning to overcome? Oh, that takes skill and hard work, sorry.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah nice post.  Now read the thread and try posting again.  Our raid force average heat was around 8-9k, most over 10k, it did jack [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  EoF should be hard, but thats not in question here.  Tarinax was not nerfed hes just bugged from the combat changes THAT HAPPENED WEEKS GO.  Don't be an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], read hte full post before [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like this spews out of your mouth, your other posts are normally good, where the hell did you go wrong with this one?<p>Message Edited by Tazric on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:43 PM</span>

[superdave]

Taranix is bugged huh? interesting

[Computer MAn]

Basically if you are wiping on the eyes dots with that much heat resist you need to tell your healers to not suck and cure faster. DT seems even easier than it was pre-revamp the eyes might hit a little bit harder but with quick cures they are cake (we don't use 4 druids only 2 on the raid). Also if you are getting more than 2 AE's you aren't killing them fast enough so work on your raid DPS and you won't have to deal with as many AE's.As for Tarinax it is sad what they did to this guy we dropped him in about 1.5 mins the other day and he hardly touched the tanks at all.<div></div>

[Illustrious]

<DIV>Only encounter thats hard in there now i think is the Drake. Tari seems easier and cruor and the other namers seem roughly the same, the eyes seems slightly tougher dots but not a huge leap and i dont think i noticed any change in the worms tbh.</DIV>

[Noaani]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tazric wrote:<BR> <P>I want to clarify, our trip through Deathtoll was an absolute nightmare, we have been doing Deathtoll just fine for a while, T7 has never been an issue for us.  We had MAJOR issues with 9/10 eyes, every single one was pounding us with Fire DOT Aoe's.  The one group without a druid, was constantly dying, the groups with a druid, were saying as soon as they cured they were hit with another aoe.  I agree, 1 would be a glitch, all 9 were like that for us, it caused much death and in the end we ran out of time and power to even get to Tarinax (Weeknight raid).  </P> <P>This is our first time in DT really since EoF Launch we have been doing other things, we are geared up to the hilt to do EoF, we just did T-Max this night for a few claymore updates.  I cannot believe that others are not having the same issues.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>OK, if you are seroiusly having trouble with the eyes in DT, I'll let you in on the (not so) leet strat that always works for my guild (we never have any deaths on any gazers except for sometimes the first one)... Since this is a spoiler, you'll have to highlight it though.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#000000>Max range them.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Hope that helps.<BR></P>

[Henladar Bloodheart ~]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Argyuile wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wow I didnt know the dog played EQ2.   You need Tunare bra, seriously its the only way bra you gotta find tunare.<BR><BR>Im SO glad you explained that to me, I thought that the guy at the end of the Trueshot longbow quest that was flagged x2 and we one grouped was an x2 mob but according to your description since he had 3 adds I killed 4 epic x2's Simotanously WITH ONE GROUP I AM THE MOST UBER HEALER EVER EVER.<BR><BR>Thanks you just put my uberness into focus for for me your my hero dog, I've found Tunare.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Glad you're a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Lemme me explain more for you since you dont seem to know much about game mechanics.</P> <P>The Difficulty the mobs gives... such as Epic x3 is the hardest mob in the Whole encounter. Now ill use you're [Removed for Content] poor example. The hardest mob was the named and he was epic x2... the rest the mobs in point were heroic but they could of been 3 epic x2's and it still would of said epic x2 under his name. The worms you are fighting in DT. The ones that say Epic x3 is in all actuallity is 2 x3 mobs. With both of those hitting on you at the same time you are taking more damage then a single x4 worm which is why it would appear they are harder. That is why your sucky guild is wiping to them and you are forced to complain on the forums to nerf them. So now that i explained this do you understand or am i just dealing with the spokesperson for ignorance?<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Henladar Bloodheart ~ on <span class=date_text>12-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:40 PM</span>

[BattleMonk]

<img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/oni_ninja17/Deathtoll.JPG"><div></div>

[matinisback]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BattleMonk wrote:<BR><IMG src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/oni_ninja17/Deathtoll.JPG"> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>that's what i said except my wormy are made out of cotton candy and have a mcd's gift card in them fyi

[superdave]

Dt is fine. like i have said use the items in game to help you out on the eyes. As far as the worms goes. i think it is so hilarious that some people havet figured out one dps can be out done by 3 mobs dps on a single target when said encounter is lower level. you just have t think about it folks. its not hard you just making it out to be that way. Taranix pathing even sems less buggy than before. yes can it be fustrating at times to go into a zone after the revamp and say [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] just happen. i agree it was. yes the eys were doing insane damage right after eof but now its not so bad. this zone should still be challengeing remeber it is a t7 end zone. just keep that in mind going in there. eof zones wow thats who other story. i come from a non hardcore guild so if we can clear so can you. we are all been playing since eq1 together so not sure if thats our ace in the hole. good luck.