Emerald Raid Zone

[R2Chie]

<div></div>Thanks for a massively huge crap zone... 3+ hours worth of clearing trash for nothing, we finally found a named and killed it only to get no chest, no aa xp etc.. (although it did give us a success timer and a 5 day lockout) the zone is to big - there is to much trash (copy and paste of faydark may have seemed a great idea - but please put content in the actual zone that is fun) we got 1 server discovery tonight and that was a body drop of - "horse meat" (which for the first time i havent let raid leader loot, after corpse getting in my way going unlooted for a while i looted it and it comes up in guildchat saying i discovered it..) apart from that - the zone is a complete joke grand loot tally: horse meat no chests about 3 body loots of 50 silver or something alot of naked folks suffice to say i just cannot wait for my 5 day timer to finish so i can re-enter this joyious zone of pure absoloute fun....................!! Whether this was intended or not, im not entirely sure but in reality my first experience of eof raiding almost drove me to prozac, 4 hours later (and 1 attempt on the final and only named we could find in zone the lvl 75 encounter led to the zone rushing us... looking around at the copious amounts of trash mobs left to clear we decided enough was enough) Thanks for a great zone... keep up the great work... the address you can send my prozac to are...... <div></div><p>Message Edited by R2Chief2 on <span class=date_text>11-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:34 PM</span>

[Verm75]

score!<div></div>

[Aven Elonis]

<DIV>In beta, it was brought up that there were too many annoying trash mobs and too few named ( I think 5 total, if memory serves me right) in a zone that large.</DIV>

[Urglu]

Agree with OP had exact same experience tonight. Got to a named finally only to have same result...no loot, but a lockout.

[Ellestil]

<P>THe whole zone seems built wrong. Some trash mobs are harder than most KoS raid zones ( a badger for example in Emerald is tougher than named in Labs ). We killed a variety of mobs and not one chest dropped, at all. Some mob encounters are groups of 6 or so elites. Normally these type of encounter is just a bunch of heroics put together to make an elite encounter. Not this time, these guys were a linked group of 6 elites, and all of them AE'd like crazy. At another point, the tank pulled a rumbler, and I was far far back (none of my spells were within range to cast ), the rumbler used a raid wide AE that hit everyone regardless of range (down goes mage pet, no chance at all).</P> <P>I understand that 5% of the entire population of EQ2 wants some almost impossible raid zones, but when you make zones like this, it's just frustrating for 95% of the other players. Spending 3 hours clearing god-like trash mobs for no loot is not fun. Even if you are in the 5% bracket of players.</P> <P>Ellestil</P>

[FlintAH]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ellestil wrote:<div></div> <p>THe whole zone seems built wrong. Some trash mobs are harder than most KoS raid zones ( a badger for example in Emerald is tougher than named in Labs ). We killed a variety of mobs and not one chest dropped, at all. Some mob encounters are groups of 6 or so elites. Normally these type of encounter is just a bunch of heroics put together to make an elite encounter. Not this time, these guys were a linked group of 6 elites, and all of them AE'd like crazy. At another point, the tank pulled a rumbler, and I was far far back (none of my spells were within range to cast ), the rumbler used a raid wide AE that hit everyone regardless of range (down goes mage pet, no chance at all).</p> <p>I understand that 5% of the entire population of EQ2 wants some almost impossible raid zones, but when you make zones like this, it's just frustrating for 95% of the other players. Spending 3 hours clearing god-like trash mobs for no loot is not fun. Even if you are in the 5% bracket of players.</p> <p>Ellestil</p><hr></blockquote>All EoF zones are supposed to be harder than the old raid zones.  They are intended to be VERY difficult, most especially EH.  I am pretty sure this is intended as THE end game zone.</div>

[pubear]

if its the end game zone, which I can accept, then it should be dropping a bit more loot.  Even deathtoll there is a chance at relic and velium and other stuff dropping off of even the trash.  This person is as much complaining about the ridiculous lack of loot in addition to the difficulty of the mobs.<div></div>

[schrammy]

<DIV>There is hard and there is ridiculous.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the trash mobs in there have wat? 5billion HP?</DIV> <DIV>not to mention the loottable an names missing.</DIV>

[Beragon]

<DIV>If you cant beat Eh then dont do it, Freethinker and Menace are the 2 that are kind of easy in EoF. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its calld progress you need gear to beat EH towards the end, its not bad and not buggt. First 2 nameds are still to easy as in Beta already said, but rest works well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@R2Chief , go move with your Guild towards Menace in Klak Ánon and or Freethinker and let Eh aslong you think its too hard, but dont complain you cant beat it on first run. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Petgroup]

Named not giving AA/Loot but giving lockouts = Beta testing on Live ftw.<div></div>

[R2Chie]

raiding guild and didnt expect to beat it on first run.... my complaint was more against the lack of loot and a zone filled with 5,000 trash mobs, 3-4 hours killing trash mobs for 0 loot, nada as in zilch...... one bit of horse meat, no chests no nothing we do find a named and beat it only to get no chest and no loot and no aa but a success timer of 5 days stop ranting about this being an end game zone, i and you shouldnt care.. are end game zones supposed to send 24 ppl to sleep ?? <div></div>

[schrammy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Beragon wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you cant beat Eh then dont do it, Freethinker and Menace are the 2 that are kind of easy in EoF. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its calld progress you need gear to beat EH towards the end, its not bad and not buggt. First 2 nameds are still to easy as in Beta already said, but rest works well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@R2Chief , go move with your Guild towards Menace in Klak Ánon and or Freethinker and let Eh aslong you think its too hard, but dont complain you cant beat it on first run. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Please don't make pointless comments.</P> <P>I never said we couldn't beat the zone. I complained about missing nameds (as in they were present in beta, but just not there on live)</P> <P>And i complained about the loot, which is non-existent. (eg THERE WAS NO LOOT)</P> <P> </P> <P>If we down a mob which is supposed to be "hard" like you put it, we should get some reward? don't we.</P> <P>And the people in beta complaining it was too easy, exagerated abit. I'm not saying it was too hard in beta, but pple forget that haveing FULL AA and Beta buffed chars is not what they have on live.</P> <P>I bet those peeps completely rearranged their aa for every zone (no clue if thats possible, wasnt on beta long enough to test that)</P>

[Lyndro-EQ2]

Its pretty hard for us to check for loot on a mob if you don't tell us what the name of the creature is.There was also a bug in the zone where when players would get charmed in one of the fights the creatures in the zone would start aggroing on each other.  If that happened to you, you wouldn't be awarded loot (I'm not saying that is the case, but if you were hit by that bug, it would explain the lack of loot).EH is supposed to be hard, nearly impossible if you haven't worked your way up in the progression.  Fighting in EH without full AAs, new top end equipment, and some nice adornments, is like fighting in deathtoll without being level 70.<div></div>

[Gungo]

<DIV>Raiding in EoF follows this progression</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Menace-<BR>freethinkers</DIV> <DIV>MM inner sanctum<BR></DIV> <DIV>Emerald Halls</DIV> <DIV>Pumkinheaded horseman</DIV> <DIV>8 Avatars</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Itemization wasnt really implemented in beta at least till the final week. Emerald Halls trash was fine IF they included at least 2 (hopefully 3-4) (8-9 total) more named. As is the ratio of trash to named is jacked. My advice do menace and freethinkers they both should be working and hopefully fully itemized.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EH was designed at least for fully fabled, 100AA's most adornents, etc. So they prolly figured they had time to finish itemizing it. Was the expansion ready for release, Yes. Is it completely finished, Nope. Odd though that none of the named spawned for you.</DIV>

[Lyndro-EQ2]

Itemization is done for the zone.  If something isn't dropping loot it is a bug, and we'd like to figure out what caused it. :p (Unless it was the charm bug, in which case we already have)<div></div>

[Petgroup]

<div><blockquote><hr>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:Itemization is done for the zone.  If something isn't dropping loot it is a bug, and we'd like to figure out what caused it. :p (Unless it was the charm bug, in which case we already have)<div></div><hr></blockquote>If you knew about the charm bug, it would help if there was a post saying " There is an issue with xyz raid zone", don't get a lockout till this is fixed.Communication is key. No communication = posts like this and angry raiders that spent all this time when you knew about a bug preventing them from doing a zone.Sure Emerald Halls is "impossible" now but that doesn't mean we can try and get a feel for the zone. All we got was a 5 day lockout on a known bug by SoE.Any other stuff we should know about before we start blowing through 5 day lockouts?</div>

[Defender of Antonia]

<DIV>I belive the two named The poster was refering to would be The named wolf (Savage Fang maybe) and the named under the waterfall (Mistress something) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I doubt they were able to beat The Segmented Rumbler and both Woshi and the other named droped loot in Beta.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's is odd though that these mobs would not have loot. same with trash as This was bugged multiple times throughout beta. Itemization was said to be done on this zone Saturday but after we came in Saturday after the Beta update There was still no loot on any Trash mobs and no Loot on the above two named. We proceeded to tell the entire raid to bug it again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shows That either </DIV> <DIV>1. Someone did not bother reading any of the bug reports</DIV> <DIV>2. They were read but ignored</DIV> <DIV>3. They were read but SoE thought other things as a higher priority</DIV><p>Message Edited by Defender of Antonia on <span class=date_text>11-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:28 AM</span>

[Urglu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:<BR>Its pretty hard for us to check for loot on a mob if you don't tell us what the name of the creature is.<BR><BR>There was also a bug in the zone where when players would get charmed in one of the fights the creatures in the zone would start aggroing on each other.  If that happened to you, you wouldn't be awarded loot (I'm not saying that is the case, but if you were hit by that bug, it would explain the lack of loot).<BR><BR>EH is supposed to be hard, nearly impossible if you haven't worked your way up in the progression.  Fighting in EH without full AAs, new top end equipment, and some nice adornments, is like fighting in deathtoll without being level 70.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well we did pull the orange fairies (named and a couple adds) and I was charmed, and we were killed by half the mobs still alive in the zone.  However, the loot prior to that was non existent.

[Lyndro-EQ2]

We found out about the charm bug last night and it was fixed this morning, so its no longer a bug that you need to worry about.There was a bug where the rumbler event that could stop it from running to completion.  We found that yesterday, it was fixed this morning.Thos are the only issues that we knew of with the zone, they were both found yesterday and fixed this morning.<div></div>

[R2Chie]

<blockquote><hr>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:Its pretty hard for us to check for loot on a mob if you don't tell us what the name of the creature is. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Hi Lyndro, It was the rumbler - killed it and no loot and nothing happened so we just kept going. Is it intended to be 3,000 trash mobs with no loot, not even body loot in zone? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> makes for a very boring zone when your doing nothing but clearing trash for 3-4hrs (and it could have been more if we didnt decide just to call it a night)<div></div>

[Kreat]

<DIV>Rethink this zone plz. Not that it was too hard but so daaaamn <U>boring</U> (no loot, 1000 trashmobs with 4 millions hp etc etc etc), it was a 4 h long yawnfest :smileyindifferent:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We only had one shot at the endmob just because we were too bored to be arsed  trying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was this ever tested?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Vorlak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kreated wrote:<BR> <DIV>Rethink this zone plz. Not that it was too hard but so daaaamn <U>boring</U> (no loot, 1000 trashmobs with 4 millions hp etc etc etc), it was a 4 h long yawnfest :smileyindifferent:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We only had one shot at the endmob just because we were too bored to be arsed  trying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was this ever tested?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yes, and the same complaints where what you are seeing now...

[schrammy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:<BR>We found out about the charm bug last night and it was fixed this morning, so its no longer a bug that you need to worry about.<BR><BR>There was a bug where the rumbler event that could stop it from running to completion.  We found that yesterday, it was fixed this morning.<BR><BR>Thos are the only issues that we knew of with the zone, they were both found yesterday and fixed this morning.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>We didnt get that charm bug. And we beat the stuff without aa and adornments, AND we didn't have a full raid. must mean we rock <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />    (Honesty bids me to tell we just stopped at some point ie we didn't finish it for it sucked <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</P> <P>I'll check in guild if someone has any names (might come up in parses if anyone did) if not we'll have to wait for lockout <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, not to mention motivating peeps to get in there <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pubear wrote:<BR>if its the end game zone, which I can accept, then it should be dropping a bit more loot.  Even deathtoll there is a chance at relic and velium and other stuff dropping off of even the trash.  This person is as much complaining about the ridiculous lack of loot in addition to the difficulty of the mobs.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Being rewarded for killing trash is for losers and nubs.  I'd rather not get 20 fabled out of a zone so I have nothing to farm in two weeks.  Please leave it as is.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kreated wrote:<BR> <DIV>Rethink this zone plz. Not that it was too hard but so daaaamn <U>boring</U> (no loot, 1000 trashmobs with 4 millions hp etc etc etc), it was a 4 h long yawnfest :smileyindifferent:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We only had one shot at the endmob just because we were too bored to be arsed  trying. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If you guys are already pulling Wuoshi than I have no faith in EH to be the zone it was designed to be.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>11-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:25 PM</span>

[Mgunner]

<DIV>What's worse, 3rd floor of PPTR or this?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please tell me it isn't that bad.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Mgunner on <span class=date_text>11-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:04 PM</span>

[R2Chie]

please stop trying to derail the thread gaige... were all exstatic to the fact you think your fantastic, keep thinking it - i dont care. <div></div>

[Tazr]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pubear wrote:<BR>if its the end game zone, which I can accept, then it should be dropping a bit more loot.  Even deathtoll there is a chance at relic and velium and other stuff dropping off of even the trash.  This person is as much complaining about the ridiculous lack of loot in addition to the difficulty of the mobs.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Being rewarded for killing trash is for losers and nubs.  I'd rather not get 20 fabled out of a zone so I have nothing to farm in two weeks.  Please leave it as is.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kreated wrote:<BR> <DIV>Rethink this zone plz. Not that it was too hard but so daaaamn <U>boring</U> (no loot, 1000 trashmobs with 4 millions hp etc etc etc), it was a 4 h long yawnfest :smileyindifferent:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We only had one shot at the endmob just because we were too bored to be arsed  trying. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If you guys are already pulling Wuoshi than I have no faith in EH to be the zone it was designed to be.<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by Gaige on <SPAN class=date_text>11-16-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:25 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Is this a macro? And did Ishbu right it for you? o_O :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Jvaloth]

<DIV>Gotta love the leetist pricks that think they are Gods of the world because they are in an uber raid guild. lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like them to 2 [Removed for Content] in a head butting content... kinda funny... but really sad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[R2Chie]

<blockquote><hr>Mgunner wrote:<div>What's worse, 3rd floor of PPTR or this?</div> <div> </div> <div>Please tell me it isn't that bad.</div><p>Message Edited by Mgunner on <span class="date_text">11-16-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:04 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote> pptr has nothing on this place and the boredom you go through <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> R2Chief2 wrote:<BR>please stop trying to derail the thread gaige...<BR><BR>were all exstatic to the fact you think your fantastic, keep thinking it - i dont care.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm on topic.  I do not want the trash made easier, I do not want the trash to drop loot.  On topic.  I just disagree with you.  If you want easy and fabled from trash, raid KoS.<BR>

[R2Chie]

where did i say once that i wanted fable from trash? where did i say once make the trash easier?? and you are ON topic?! i said the zone was to big - i said there was to MUCH trash mobs, i said the NAMED dropped no loot and i complained that there was no loot (as in baby chests, advanced tailor and all the other crap) even coming from the trash mobs.. you know the stuff that puts money in GB how about you read my post and take away your ego trip. <div></div>

[Noaani]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> R2Chief2 wrote:<BR>please stop trying to derail the thread gaige...<BR><BR>were all exstatic to the fact you think your fantastic, keep thinking it - i dont care.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm on topic.  I do not want the trash made easier, I do not want the trash to drop loot.  On topic.  I just disagree with you.  If you want easy and fabled from trash, raid KoS.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As a not hardcore raider, I agree with this 100%.</P> <P>Heaven forbid the Devs actually learnt that adding fabled drops (in some cases, the best item for a given slot/class in the game) to trash mobs is actually a bad idea!</P> <P>If you want to kill things without any sort of challange, and be rewarded for doing so, you have Labs, Lycemum and HoS.</P> <P>If your past those zones, head off to Freethinkers or Menace.</P> <P>When your done there, try heading out to EH.</P> <P>Until then, you can't really say its too easy or too hard, as you are not at the point the Devs desinged the zone for. As already said, its like saying Deathtoll is too hard if you are going in before you are 70.</P> <P>Its too early to judge this zone yet.</P>

[Noaani]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> R2Chief2 wrote:<BR>where did i say once that i wanted fable from trash?<BR><BR>where did i say once make the trash easier??<BR><BR>and you are ON topic?!<BR><BR>i said the zone was to big - i said there was to MUCH trash mobs, i said the NAMED dropped no loot and i complained that there was no loot (as in baby chests, advanced tailor and all the other crap) even coming from the trash mobs.. you know the stuff that puts money in GB<BR><BR>how about you read my post and take away your ego trip.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>So you are saying that you had trouble with the Rumbler event? the one that they already said in this thread they found, and then fixed, a bug for?</P> <P>Come back and complain about how much trash there is in this place when you have finished Freethinkers and Menace.</P>

[Gaige]

<FONT color=#ff0066></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> R2Chief2 wrote:<BR>i said the zone was to big  <FONT color=#ffff00>TOO big?  You call yourself a raider?  If its too big only do part of it.  Don't do it.  Do Menace, do Chel'Drak.  Do something else.  The worst idea of the century is taking the biggest raid instance in EoF and make it smaller.</FONT> <P>i said there was to MUCH trash mobs  <FONT color=#ffff00>No such thing.  I like zones that take awhile, instead of crap like Lyceum, Labs and Chel'Drak which can be done in 45 mins or less.  More trash is fine.  It makes getting to the named part of the zone, instead of skipping everything and just doing the named.</FONT></P> <P>i said the NAMED dropped no loot  <FONT color=#ffff00>A dev also said that named was fixed.  The named should drop loot yes, but I wouldn't even have a problem with a named dropping legendary usually and fabled rarely.  I geared up my dirge in KoS raiding in under a month except for one slot.  Since expansions don't come out every month I'd rather not have fabled raining from every named.</FONT></P> <P>and i complained that there was no loot (as in baby chests, advanced tailor and all the other crap) even coming from the trash mobs.. you know the stuff that puts money in GB  <FONT color=#ffff00>Our guild bank is fine thank you.  I'd rather not be rewarded for killing trash.  Besides, last I checked, when devs put adept 1 and crafting books on raid mobs people complain.  I think trash should drop corpse loot at the most, if anything.  Maybe a .01% chance to drop a low fabled/high legendary, but anything else is over-rewarding for killing trash.</FONT><BR><BR>how about you read my post and take away your ego trip.  <FONT color=#ffff00>I did.  It doesn't mean I'm going to let whiners try to get EH nerfed less than a week into the expansion just because they feel entitled and are used to being handed everything for just zoning into a raid zone.  I read your post, now you can read mine.  Aside from mechanics changes like named not dropping loot, the zone is fine.</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[VladisSar]

<P>sounds alot like Vex Thal in eq1 BEFORE upgrade...</P> <P>now lets hope that we get same upgrade quality as original VT did and become BEST loot zone in the game, given -the hardest ever during Luclin Era and well into PoP </P>

[Triste-Lune]

i personnaly cant agree more with Gaige, i dont really like the tone he is using but what he is saying is right. I was able to gear my berserker in 3 weeks after reactivating my account, it s a shame. KoS zone were a joke i tanked them in offensive all the time beside tarinax and the amorphous drake. if emerald hall gets cleared in 2 weeks it s going to be lame. The worst would be for me to hear "random_noob_01 tells 60-69 EH trash run looking for more". Lab droping relic just blew. zone that could drop relic from trash should have 5d20h lockout on killing the first trash just like HoS.

[Kreat]

<DIV>Whatever :smileyindifferent:</DIV>

[Barand]

If the zone is the end zone of the progression and is designed to be like attempted DT before lvl 70 without adornment and AA they should up the difficulty a bit because i dont think its normal that guild are able to kill even the first named of the zone 2 day after release. <div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kreated wrote:<BR> <DIV>Whatever :smileyindifferent:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileywink: dont worry about gaige hes a little grouchy </P> <P><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Iranos wrote:If the zone is the end zone of the progression and is designed to be like attempted DT before lvl 70 without adornment and AA they should up the difficulty a bit because i dont think its normal that guild are able to kill even the first named of the zone 2 day after release. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Nah, the reason why the first named is doable is because a vast majority of gear in KoS was just that much overpowered, which has allowed people to be a bit ahead of the EoF curve. But either way, it's a hard raid zone, well hot [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], DEAL WITH IT. Go try other stuff, maybe try killing Matron or Chel'Drak, or Mayong, or any of the other EoF instances out there first instead!

[CalypsoCGN]

<div></div><div></div>I have to agree with Refrain and Calaglin on this case!!!EH is meant to be the new high-end raid-zone...you shouldn't have an easy life in there, if you havent farmed clockwork and freethinkers for a bit...and don't have any kinds of adornments...Heck, why do ppl think it should be possible to go kill stuff in the end-game zone from day 1 on??? Sure...it's not too hard to reach the first 2 or 3 named mobs (at least in beta it wasn't and the zone was still very buggy by that time...) and if you are carefull enough you can dodge a lot of the trashmobs...Personally I love this zone...finally a raidzone that feels like a big, big outdoor area to play in...and hey...it has the same ammount of named mobs as DT...but I also think that my guild is better of doing freethinkers on a regular base for some time, rather to step into the hardest zone right from the beginning...<div></div><p>Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on <span class="date_text">11-17-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:55 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on <span class=date_text>11-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:56 AM</span>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>Any zone that's like PPR in terms of trash mobs is too much.  It's one thing making a zone hard, it's a totally different thing making the zone boring.</P> <P>Boring doesn't equal hard.</P> <P>Cut some trash mobs and make some things in the zone harder.  They aren't mutually exclusive.  That would make everyone happy.</P>

[R2Chie]

i havent said anything about the zone being to hard - why do ppl keep quoting me on this.. sorry gaige, i didnt realise a REAL raider had to be someone who enjoyed killing trashmobs for 5-6 hours (which  no doubt it would have been if we had continued instead of calling it a night).. the fact i enjoy raiding and do it 6-7 nights a week dosent mean much really, because clearly im not a TRUE raider unless I enjoy killing junk mobs which are completely no challenge for 4-6 hours.. If that is what you want from the game, fair enough. I enjoy challenge, and not wasting alot of time with no challenge - no loot and nothing but trash mobs coming my way for over 4 hours. Explain to me were the fun is there exactly.. I couldnt care less at this stage if they dropped [Removed for Content] all or not - its very boring to kill nothing but trash and not see any named for over 4 hours you can take your "real" raider crap aswell and put it where the sun dont shine, your attitude stinks. You come across as not only agressive but to make yourself look like a complete [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in the process, something not easily done. In honesty from your post history though i really should not be surprised by this. Finally - I and many others are NOT saying the zone is "uberly hard", what we are saying is that its a complete bore fest, the place puts pptr to shame.. Im happy to raid for many many hours if theres something mentally stimulating actually happening. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<P>So you want to zone in, kill one trash mob, kill 20 named, get all your fabled and zone out.</P> <P>NO.</P> <P>I want progression.  I want a carrot.  I want farming.  I want there to be a reason I'm still playing this game in three months.</P> <P>If you get the changes you're asking for there will be no progression, EH will be cleared by everyone and on farm status, and that will <EM>suck.</EM></P> <P>If you don't like EH, don't do it.  Do the other instances or something.  I just do not want to see EoF raiding turned into KoS raiding in the first week, it would be a pretty horrible move imho.</P>

[Rampagious]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><p>I want a carrot.  </p><hr></blockquote>Carrots taste bad <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[R2Chie]

<blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div> <p>So you want to zone in, kill one trash mob, kill 20 named, get all your fabled and zone out.</p><hr></blockquote> i see talking to you is like banging my head against a wall.. yet you put more words in my mouth and then complain about stuff that ive never said wont even bother anymore.. Use half a braincell and we may get somewhere, otherwise it really is not worth the bother of arguing any points against you.<div></div>

[Nevar]

 Bastila stop complaining because you cant zone in clear it on your first attempt! and do it in under an hour like all of kos!

[Darry]

<P>Some people really are dense <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>High hp trash that offer no challenge = no fun, make them a challenge at least no need to remove any if the loot in EH is some of the best EoF gear (I think that is what Bastila was trying to convey but some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] bandits like to whinge too much).</P>

[Vuz]

<DIV>They finally give us decent raid progression and you want to ruin it? No. Leave the zone as is, I want to be forced to gear up in EoF, max AA's and get a ton of adornments before I'm able to clear this zone. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you for attempting to ruin what will keep me playing three months from now. I do not want this zone on farm status. End of story.</DIV>

[Tiko_7801]

<P>Anyone else sitting here reading Chief and Gaige go back and forth. Both trying to make their point the only point possible instead of finding a way to talk it out like adults. This has to be one of the funniest things i have ever read. EH is full of trash mobs, Sony put the trash mobs there, You have to deal with the trash mobs. Seems to me that you, me, chief, gaige, or anyone complaining now will not change it. They will not go in a revamp it. All your doing is putting in a complaint. Gaige on the fear of a nerf coming to what he sees as the right way, and chief saying or atleast what im gathering hes trying to say is to much of trash no loot from named (i believe this bug has been fixed). </P> <P> </P> <P>At the end of the day you have to ask yourself.</P> <P>1) Are you going to cancel your subscription because of this?</P> <P>2) Are you going to not raid EH?</P> <P>3) Are you going to let someone on a message board get to you?</P> <P>4) Are you ever going to realize this is a game, and yes there are more games out there to play?</P> <P>5) Are you ever going to realize that Shadowknights are the only true class and all other classes are just rangers and ranger wannabes?</P> <P> </P> <P>Love you all enjoy flaming roasting and burning of each other i look forward to the funny responses from gaige and chief and hopefully from more people. Nothing like having a good laugh at the rest of the world.</P> <P> </P>

[Rampagious]

Tiko go get hit by a truck, like Hoopdee.<div></div>

[Feltrak]

<DIV>Gaige is right. Keep it hard, keep it under rewarding for guilds that can't clear it. Make it require gearing up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The hardest raid zone in the game should not be completable by ANYONE on their first run through it. I'd hope that most guilds would continuously wipe to the first named. Taking too long? Okay then gear up so you can clear it faster and have more time for the final boss. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Looks like alot of people got used to Kingdoms of Easymode, and are upset that EoF actually challenges them. Boohoo go raid the level 60 guild instances if you want to beat something.</DIV>

[Scort]

<P>The massive amounts of trash mobs with massive amounts of health and are worst than some named encounters has got to go. This makes for an extremely boring game. we have told you all this ever since PP2, AoA, etc. but you never listen to the players.</P> <P>If you are going ot have trash like this. They need to drop stuff. There is just way too much trash. It's going ot take us enough time as it is for the 5 named, much less all this junk.</P> <P>Please stop filling zones with massive amounts of trash with massive amounts of health and no loot. Most of the raiders have asked that this boring way of doing things stop but it never gets through. Why?</P> <P>Zones like this just ruin the game play for people. Look at DoF and KoS. Look at how many people you lost because of it. Rewards need to match the time, effort and risk that we put into these zones but, rewards are WAY WAY WAY underdone.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>We don't mind challenging named encounters or encounters that give loot but, challenging trash is a pita and boring. First named you come to has 5 AOEs and a port on top of adds. I thought SOE was doing away with massive amounts of AOEs to make mobs challenging? Just Matron copy and paste all over.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>This is DoF and KoS all over again. beta testing on live servers and xpak released long before it's ready.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>This zone should be dropping the new legendary version of armor sets if nothing else, if you intend on keeping trash that's as hard as a lot of named mobs. Either that or just remove 95% of the trash.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>The rating for this zone = yawn fest as someone so elegantly put it.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:02 PM</span>

[Mordicus]

<blockquote><hr>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:EH is supposed to be hard, nearly impossible if you haven't worked your way up in the progression.  Fighting in EH without full AAs, new top end equipment, and some nice adornments, is like fighting in deathtoll without being level 70.<div></div><hr></blockquote>The progression isnt the issue here Lyndro. The issue at hand is the sheer tedium from clearing an overabundance of trash mobs. Especially when it is a neccesity as it is in EH. Please remove a portion of the trash in EH.

[SirJohn]

Trash mobs with millions of HP does not equal fun and does not make things hard..it just makes [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] tedious.. PPtR was boring as hell due to this as well..Im pretty sure that was all the op was trying to get across before Gaige and co jumped on the case accusing everyone of wanting free fabled.. :rollseyes:<div></div>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>Did this last night. The challenge was refreshing, and I didn't mind dying unless it was to a stupid mistake. The main problem was that nameds that were in beta 2 days before launch were non-existant. The Tree lady under the waterfall, and the wandering wolf. If these are meant to be "rare spawns" that aren't always up, ok, thats cool, but then that leaves only 3 named in the whole zone, the rumbler, the fae tender, and Wuoshi. YAWN!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We also got zero loot for the first 2 hours. We finally got 53s (split 24 ways for 2s each, woot) off of one of the fae wanderers, and a mangy wolf paw off of one of the wolves. Thats all that we managed all night. Never got to a named as we spent hours and hours clearing trash to get to the two nameds I had fought before only to not have them there anymore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW... the shrooms were changed. Not sure if I like it or not, as it was quite a surprise. Not the kind of surprise I like after having 2 named mobs MIA.</DIV>

[Gaige]

Its simple:  If you don't like the zone don't do it, quit crying for nerfs.  Sheesh.  Its the way it is for a reason, if you want instant gratification, loot off trash, or zone in and kill named do one of the other numerous zones that offer that.  Quit trying to deny the raiders who have been waiting for a zone like EH the opportunity of using it.

[VladisSar]

<DIV>got to love the feelign talking to a WALL.... OP clearly stated that major problem is NO LOOT what so ever, yet every smart [Removed for Content] comes out with "if ist too hard - quit" argument.</DIV>

[Scort]

<P>Yea, gotta love those stupid if you don't like it, leave comments.</P> <P>People are giving feedback as to how boring and broken the zone is and fanboys holler, quit.</P> <P>Yea, that's the solution. SOE already got 180,000+ people to quit by doing stuff like this. I guess you want the 175k that's left to quit too huh? If that's your attitude, then have fun playing on one server that's left when everyone leaves.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:48 PM</span>

[Nanite]

<P>*WHY* do you want a giant timesink? Look the plain fact of the matter is, if someone has already managed to kill a couple of the names in here, the zone is GOING to be cleared by some guild with a lot of free time very soon now, they will post strategies on all the names on ogaming, and everyone is going to be clearing it. It's GOING to happen, get used to the idea. So the only question is, do we really want to spend 5 hours every week farming a zone, yes or no? Keeping in mind that timesinks = bad and game killers.Your going to spend a good four months running through these zones again and again if your in a hardcore raid guild, NOTHING is going to change that. If theres any way to kill a mob, someone will find it very quickly and then everyone will know how to do it, it's the nature of the net. The only way your gonna get what you want, a zone that stays truely challenging for six months, is if they constantly change the names around, that's the ONLY way, and I highly doubt it's going to happen.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now I just want to say I do NOT want the following: I don't want trash mobs dropping fabled like in KoS, that made it way too easy to get truely awesome gear.</P> <P>I don't want the zone made any easier, heck if people have already killed a couple named, sounds like it's *TOO* easy.</P> <P>Lastly, I do NOT want a raid zone where the biggest challenge is finding 24 people who can sit at their computers for 6 hour stretches, that is a really *STUPID* kind of challenge. Make it so you really need 100 AP's and quite a bit of adorned gear to be able to take the named, fine. That is all well and good, but putting this much challengeless trash inbetween is just a timesink, and timesinks kill games. The more challenging the trash is, the worse it is, because after a few runs you'll know exactly how to kill them anyway, so again it's just a no reward timesink. This is *NOT* the answer. I really don't think there is one. Asking for a raid zone to stay challenging for even 2 months is just asking too much, it's not going to happen, so you may as well make it quick so you can go do something else that's actually *FUN*.</P>

[R2Chie]

Nice post Nanite77, exactly what i have been trying to put across.. Was just getting tired of the "dont like it, quit" comments or the putting words in my mouth and then replying arrogantly to stuff that i have not even wrote. Non challenging trash mobs for 6 hours of your raiding time a night is not fun, period <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[R2Chie]

<blockquote><hr>Nevarer wrote:<div></div> Bastila stop complaining because you cant zone in clear it on your first attempt! and do it in under an hour like all of kos!<hr></blockquote> like this for a prime example.. where did i once say this, or even imply it. <div></div>

[Tazr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Feltrak wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Looks like alot of people got used to Kingdoms of Easymode, and are upset that EoF actually challenges them. Boohoo go raid the level 60 guild instances if you want to beat something.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You cant, they are broken :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:

[CalypsoCGN]

As long as the zone isnt buggy anymore like it was during the beta (pathing bugs / wall agro and so on) and the named mobs drop loot, nothing should be changed...the trash isnt THAT bad in the zone...only the drakes are a bit of a pain and with the ability to strip buffs almost hardter then some named mobs...but thats fine for me <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>Don't change anything in terms of the difficulty of the zone...just do everything possible that stuff like not getting loot from named mob at all won't happen again and everything is fine...Just as a side note...the dev's posted on the beta forums that trash DO drop gear...even in EH, if i'm correct...it's just a very, very rare chance of 2% that this happens...so don't expect to see that happen every raid...<div></div>

[Facedown]

I would rather kill 4 million hp trash mobs for 3-4 hours then kill 2-3 named and actually have a feeling of accomplishment then clearing 6-7 encounters, kill a named, clear 6-7 more, kill another named.<div></div>

[Scort]

<P>Yep, some people are just totally clueless to what is fun. That's why nothing added since T5 has really been fun. There are a few zones here and there but, for the most part, it's a yawn fest.</P> <P>Everything has been coming from a designer standpoint and not a player of MMOs. They seem to think these boring [Removed for Content] zones with massive amounts of trash with massive amounts of health and no loot, are fun for the players. That quite a few of the deigners don't even play the game. We don't need this. We need developers that play the game and can step away from the designing part of the game and actually see things from the player's perspective. Either that or hire people that have no ties with design and just plays a zones and tries it out from a players perspective.</P> <P>Designers can't see the forest for the trees. They are too involved with the creation to distinguish what is fun. At least that's what has appeared to be the case to a LOT of players since t5 days. That's one reason they have lost 180k accounts in the last year+. Well, that and releasing unfinished, broken xpaks which results in beta testing on live servers and people wasting thier time in zones that aren't finished only to hit bugs that ruin their day.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>That's not a putdown etiher. Many people in a design/creation role are just simply too involved with that process to see things from a different perspective.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:39 PM</span>

[Beragon]

<P>Emerald Halls is nice at it is. </P> <P>It will be cleared for sure, not all will be able or take longer then others and thats ok. Zones like Lyc been boring, relic from Trash, mobs you rush and clear on first day of release withouta  problem. </P>

[Tarmac]

<DIV>Took a trip through this joyous zone last night.  IMO the difficulty of the trash is right on point. Fae grps on the river,  love em.  Badgers, little fuggers are mean.  You never know what that new mob may bring to the table <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The problem lies (as stated lots of times) with the shear ABUNDANCE of only trash mobs. And NOTHING else. And I mean NOTHING else.  I for one think that trash mobs shouldn't drop loot. but if they do make it a .01 % chance with a FULL lockout. None of this 12 hour stuff.  Labs relic anyone?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We spent about 4 hours in there last night.  The path leading up never opened for us (not even sure if its supposed to) Cleared the whole river to the watherfall, nothing. Cleared all the mushroom guys, nothing. All the Ghost horsies, nothing. All the wolves, nothing. Most of the Fae drakes, nothing. Most of the solo Fae's we could find, nothing. Most of the brownies, nothing. The badgers, again nothing. The ONLY named we saw in 4 hours was a lvl75 tender thing on the far right of the zone. With each wipe came numerous LD's and client crashes. If we waited around for the LD's etc.. to come back all it did was add to the tedium of the zone. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are the named in here supposed to be static mobs or  rare spawns (i.e...Roost)? Or spawned by events of some kind? Was no named at the rivers end, no wolf named, no unicorn named etc...If they are poped by events then thats cool, guess we just didn't figure em out. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far IMO this zone is just PP:R 2. Endless grinding of trash mobs, then more trash mobs, they what the helll why not a few more trash mobs.  If the "difficulty" of the zone lies in trying to stay awake with massive amounts of coffee, nicotine etc...  or pulling multiple mobs just to add some flare, then this zone is right on with that difficulty.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm really hoping that being full EoF fabled, 100 AA's, full T7 adornments will give us a raid DPS of 30K+. Then and only then would the current amount of trash not be so bad. The trash still woudln't be fun, but would take half the time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As others have stated numerous times, there are multiple ways to make something "hard". Ton's of trash with lots of HP isn't a way IMO.</DIV>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Nanite77 wrote:*WHY* do you want a giant timesink?<hr></blockquote>So I can have something to progress through until the next Adventure Pack or Expansion Pack. If there is no timesink, it means we all can zone in, kill it all first try, and look at that, we've just beaten the expansion because we've cleared the hardest raid zone because somebody didn't put a timesink. That's the point of timesinks. To keep us playing because there's still something left to beat. Timesinks are GOOD. It keeps you playing.<blockquote><hr>Nanite77 wrote:Lastly, I do NOT want a raid zone where the biggest challenge is finding 24 people who can sit at their computers for 6 hour stretches, that is a really *STUPID* kind of challenge<hr></blockquote>So basically you want short instanced raid zones? Sorry, but raid zones should be long, tedious, and hard. Don't like it, don't kill the whole zone, or get more DPS to kill the trash faster. Or better yet, try doing it on a weekend when you can have people sit down for 6 hour stretches!

[R2Chie]

<blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<blockquote><hr>Nanite77 wrote:*WHY* do you want a giant timesink?<hr></blockquote>So I can have something to progress through until the next Adventure Pack or Expansion Pack. If there is no timesink, it means we all can zone in, kill it all first try, and look at that, we've just beaten the expansion because we've cleared the hardest raid zone because somebody didn't put a timesink. That's the point of timesinks. To keep us playing because there's still something left to beat. Timesinks are GOOD. It keeps you playing. - <font color="#ffff00">because it takes 5 hours longer to clear the zone isnt going to last 6 months im afraid, if your able to kill the named when theres less trash, 5 hours worth of trash isnt going to stop you clearing the zone, unless your raid falls asleep beating into trash mobs after 4 hours. You will still "beat" the expansion in the same timeframe if there was less trash, so i have no idea were you are going with this exactly.</font><blockquote><hr>Nanite77 wrote:Lastly, I do NOT want a raid zone where the biggest challenge is finding 24 people who can sit at their computers for 6 hour stretches, that is a really *STUPID* kind of challenge<hr></blockquote>So basically you want short instanced raid zones? Sorry, but raid zones should be long,<u> </u><b><u>tedious</u>,</b> and hard. Don't like it, don't kill the whole zone, or get more DPS to kill the trash faster. Or better yet, try doing it on a weekend when you can have people sit down for 6 hour stretches! - <font color="#ffff00">explain to me why playing a game that you pay for should be tedious exactly..? do you play for this reason, to play in tedious zones... No one is complaining about the difficulty, it is afterall suppsed to be the end game zone as has been explained numerous times. Getting more dps? how do you intend you fit more than 24 people in a raid exactly sherlock. That is ofcourse besides the point that there is no challenge in killing trash - it is called trash for a reason that it is a time waster and not something you look forward to in honesty. I am happy with long zones, i am even happier with hard zones that 24 people have to constantly focus on (minus the slacking bard) to take down encounters. I however am not very happy, or excited, or any way in the slightest bit having fun killing 6 hours worth of non-challenging trash mobs. We will kill the zone in the same timeframe (as in it wont take us months of trying..) anyway if they werent there, and they are no fun. Explain to me if you please why you think "tedious" as you put it.. is fun and is what you pay for as I would be ever so joyed to hear the response if only to get inside your head for a minute or so because clearly it is something that the majority of us are missing. And I also notice that its only dissolution that are against doing this, i have yet to speak to a person who has BEEN to this zone in LIVE say that they actually had fun going through what we did in there, regardless if its end game or not and we need full aa lines. Not to mention the fact that named that are supposed to be there - are not.. possibly if they were actually were they were supposed to be, the zone could have been a bit more challenging and fun. As it was the only named we seen were rumbler (no loot, fixed.. thanks mr dev, to little to late and it should have been fixed in the beta testing but nvm) and the orange lvl 75 seed named, which *and i am sorry for the spoiler* if you pull the rest of the trash you could not be bothered to kill in the zone rushes your raid....... so i fail to see how you could "skip" trash due to this but nevermind.. </font><hr></blockquote><div></div>

[Killerbee3000]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<blockquote><hr>Nanite77 wrote:*WHY* do you want a giant timesink?<hr></blockquote>So I can have something to progress through until the next Adventure Pack or Expansion Pack. If there is no timesink, it means we all can zone in, kill it all first try, and look at that, we've just beaten the expansion because we've cleared the hardest raid zone because somebody didn't put a timesink. That's the point of timesinks. To keep us playing because there's still something left to beat. Timesinks are GOOD. It keeps you playing.<blockquote><hr>Nanite77 wrote:Lastly, I do NOT want a raid zone where the biggest challenge is finding 24 people who can sit at their computers for 6 hour stretches, that is a really *STUPID* kind of challenge<hr></blockquote>So basically you want short instanced raid zones? Sorry, but raid zones should be long, tedious, and hard. Don't like it, don't kill the whole zone, or get more DPS to kill the trash faster. Or better yet, try doing it on a weekend when you can have people sit down for 6 hour stretches!<hr></blockquote>well, thousand's of boring trash mobs aka pptr doesn't make a fun zone... i'd rather see a handfull hard to kill trash mobs than 1000 of the same lamer mobs....</div>

[Gaige]

<P>A large outdoor raid zone is going to have lots of trash.  It has to.  Or else its just a giant labs with large areas of nothing seperating the named.  Its like an epic overland zone, where trash outnumbers the named.</P> <P>Its working as intended and its fine.</P> <P>Quit complaining.</P>

[Scort]

Then don't make it a large outdoor zone. Yep, it sure is working as intended because it's a yawn fest designed to bore the players to death and put them to sleep or make them want to shoot themselves or cancel accounts like the other 180k+ people have from the same type boring stuff in DoF and KoS. Yep, working as intended. <P><SPAN class=time_text>Yep, it's fine that they will run off more people and EQ2 will be down to 1 or 2 servers for you to play on.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:47 PM</span>

[Ruben]

Shadap all. If dissolution says its working as intended, is that the zone is working as intended. Devs wont do nothing <span>:womanmad: , although for the rest of people is boring like hell. </span><div></div>

[Nanite]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <P>A large outdoor raid zone is going to have lots of trash.  It has to.  Or else its just a giant labs with large areas of nothing seperating the named.  Its like an epic overland zone, where trash outnumbers the named.</P> <P>Its working as intended and its fine.</P> <P>Quit complaining.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Were not going to quit complaining, because clearly the majority of us view this zone as a bad idea. Granted, it's not going to be changed, but we can make sure that SoE knows they screwed up so that they won't do it again.

[Brallin]

I dont know about everyone else but I raid to kill trash thats where all the excitement is, and I personally hope they just take all the named out of the zone.<span>:smileysurprised:</span><div></div>

[Leawyn]

I don't mind the trash. I don't mind the amount of time this zone takes to clear. I mind that nameds that were there days before launch in Beta are missing, that I spent 2 hours clearing trash to three different named spawn points to find nothing. THAT is annoying, and in my opinion, not working. People have only seen 2 nameds, the rumbler and the seed guy. There should be at least 3 others by reports from beta testers, not counting Wuoshi. So where are they? <div></div>

[zormik]

<P>The problem is that 75% of the forumpopulation here are hardcore raiders for who everything looks easy.</P> <P>I'll tell you something, sometimes it's fun to do raiding as a casual guild too.  I'm not talking about this specific zone.  But telling here that all kos raidzones are easy is belittling casual raiding guilds.  Look we got our own access to DT and we're [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] proud of it but don't come here and minimalise all the kos raidcontent because for most guilds it is very challenging. We don't have the opportunity to min/max everything okies. </P> <P>And guess where a lot of your members come from...<BR>Those casual raiding guilds are often the feeders of hardcore raiding guilds, plz remember that. </P> <P> </P>

[Barand]

yeah but if you are a casual guild dont complain that the FINAL raid zone is too hard 3 day after release. Don't complain now that it take too much time, our guild started at 5K dps at the begining of KoS and we ended at 15K (and i know better guild do much more than that), gear up elsewhere, there are other zone to raid, don't waste your time in a zone you can't beat right now. Does any of the people that complain got a raid with 24 people with 100 AA and full  adornment and mostly EoF fabled gear ? i dont think so. So until you get to there dont complain that it take too much time, make your character stronger and try this zone when you have the requirement to do it. Lyndro is right its like you were complaining that DT is too hard with a raid of lvl 63 people just after the release of KoS. Thats nonsense. <div></div>

[zormik]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iranos wrote:<BR>yeah but if you are a casual guild dont complain that the FINAL raid zone is too hard 3 day after release.<BR>Don't complain now that it take too much time, our guild started at 5K dps at the begining of KoS and we ended at 15K (and i know better guild do much more than that), gear up elsewhere, there are other zone to raid, don't waste your time in a zone you can't beat right now.<BR>Does any of the people that complain got a raid with 24 people with 100 AA and full  adornment and mostly EoF fabled gear ? i dont think so. So until you get to there dont complain that it take too much time, make your character stronger and try this zone when you have the requirement to do it.<BR>Lyndro is right its like you were complaining that DT is too hard with a raid of lvl 63 people just after the release of KoS. Thats nonsense.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's why i said i'm not talking about this zone :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have np that they make one zone that is uberhard and you have to be ubertwinked in eof raiding gear.  I have a problem when i can't progress in the same way as i was because of hardcore guilds feeding the devs that every raidzone in kos is waaaay to easy.  The second time we entered DT we went as far as tarinax with only one wipe.  We were very proud of that achievement.  We were looking forward to find strategies to bring down that nasty dragon.  Now since the xpack we don't even have to think about going in there again ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Old zones should remain with the same difficulty as it was.  You can't take away people's advancement in there. We worked very hard to get that far, considering we are a casual raiding guild.  That's why i made that comment about the 75% of the peeps here being hardcore.  The devs get a wrong impression of the real balance of this game.  I thing the real balance of this game is 90 to 95% are casual players and 5 to 10% are semi-hardcore or harcore.  Despite those numbers those 5% are the vast majority on this forum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All i'm trying to say is that if you only listen to the vast majority here you are hurting 95% of the eq2 population.  Don't misunderstand me, i don't have any problem with creating uberhard raids for those 5%.  As long as those 95% get some interesting raidcontent as well :smileywink:</DIV>

[Barand]

problem in DT are a bug right now, mobs have not been nerfed like other mobs elsewhere. Emerald hall might be easier than Deathtoll at the moment <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But one thing is very wrong in what you say, we experienced the same thing. We get to tarinax in our 2nd trip (could have been the first but we started late in the night the first time). For the last zone of a tiers it is not normal. I and other raider here just hope that things are different in EoF and that it will take some time, gear and investment to get to the last named of EH. <div></div>

[zormik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iranos wrote:<BR>problem in DT are a bug right now, mobs have not been nerfed like other mobs elsewhere.<BR>Emerald hall might be easier than Deathtoll at the moment <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>But one thing is very wrong in what you say, we experienced the same thing. We get to tarinax in our 2nd trip (could have been the first but we started late in the night the first time). For the last zone of a tiers it is not normal. I and other raider here just hope that things are different in EoF and that it will take some time, gear and investment to get to the last named of EH.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If you got access to DT with your own guild (meaning, clearing labs, and killing all those dragons), Everything up to tarinax is indeed quite easy. Nevertheless it's been like that for over 6 months, so keep the old content like it is and learn from it in the new expansion packs (like eof).</P> <P>And indeed i know that koszones are bugged now.  I just hope they "fix" them to the same difficulty as before eof. I really wanna finish my claymore quest soon ... :smileyhappy:</P>

[Skeptycal]

Here's the problem as it is now. I hope that EH is hard as hell and we wipe on the first trash mob. I hope it stays that way. But... for guilds like mine that were just starting T7 ( cleared labs once and working on other dragons, cleared most of LOA, Some of HOS) our stomping grounds are stomping US. The KOS raid zones are NOT balanced now. Would it be safe to assume that the new raid zones (not EH) are a better place to start now? Without the KOS progression? Is there some answer to this problem or do we just have to wait until they decide to "rebalance" the KOS zones so we have a chance to gear up there? We are stuck right now it seems. Any advice? <div></div>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>Personally I like the zone. Yes chests from the trash would be nice but, If I see another "open labs raid forming" message in 60-69 chat Im going to puke. I do not want to see people walking around in full fabled from guilds who have never formed a raid. I liked T5 when you saw a plate class sitting on the east freeport docks in full chrome fabled and it meant they were in an uber guild and had a lot of playtime. KoS seemed to me the expansion that sony tried to win the WoW crowd over.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think with EoF they have finally listened to the multiple petitions and suggestions from end-game raiding guilds. The fact that we were able to zone-in and kill 40% of the zone 3 day's after launch is not a good thing. I was expecting to get pwned on the trash, the named are tough but not impossible. We got the named wolf down to 16% on our third pull and I dont think anyone in the raid had more than 55 aa's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I look for great things from EH in a couple of weeks and it wont be long til we all have it on our weekly farm list and we are rocking it in 2 hours by skipping the trash.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Side note: [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] those fae's hit hard.</DIV>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>Good to see you again there, gnome :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>/tell unrest.cinadien :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Maelakai]

First off, I freaking love this zone... ya it's a time sink, ya it's huge, ya there's a boat load of trash.... but god is it challenging!  I'm betting there are rare spawns, as we only had the tree lady at the end of the waterfall and the tender.  As for progression through the zone, I think it's fine... I believe you need to kill the tender to move on (this is what we did, although we didn't even check the ramp until after we had downed her) and this is perfect as the mobs further up get harder and harder.  I love it, keep it going, keep it up, this is easily the most engaging zone of EoF.  There are enough names in the zone to keep you busy, and I personally don't want to see guilds fully EoF fabled in the first month... We had two set pieces drop, a fabled buckler and some fabled arrows (yay arrows).It was easily the most fun I've had raiding in a long time, big gratz to the designer of the zone!Cheers,DraydinDefiler - Chaotic Legion - Kithicor<div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zormik wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>I have np that they make one zone that is uberhard and you have to be ubertwinked in eof raiding gear.  I have a problem when i can't progress in the same way as i was because of hardcore guilds feeding the devs that every raidzone in kos is waaaay to easy.  The second time we entered DT we went as far as tarinax with only one wipe.  We were very proud of that achievement.  We were looking forward to find strategies to bring down that nasty dragon.  Now since the xpack we don't even have to think about going in there again ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Why would you not go there again?  You should go there and raid and get DT items, because they are nice and will make EoF raiding easier for your guild.  Besides, KoS is still current tier, its not like its gray and the items are useless.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Old zones should remain with the same difficulty as it was.  You can't take away people's advancement in there. We worked very hard to get that far, considering we are a casual raiding guild.  That's why i made that comment about the 75% of the peeps here being hardcore.  The devs get a wrong impression of the real balance of this game.  I thing the real balance of this game is 90 to 95% are casual players and 5 to 10% are semi-hardcore or harcore.  Despite those numbers those 5% are the vast majority on this forum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I'm talking about EH.  You don't see me saying make Clockwork harder or make Lyceum harder.  That's fine.  Easy stuff is required for progression just as much as hard stuff is.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All i'm trying to say is that if you only listen to the vast majority here you are hurting 95% of the eq2 population.  Don't misunderstand me, i don't have any problem with creating uberhard raids for those 5%.  As long as those 95% get some interesting raidcontent as well :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>You guys have always gotten more than us.  You got more in KoS, you got more in EoF... so quit complaining about the one zone designed for us.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Exill]

I think the zone is fine how it is. The bugs were found and fixed pretty quickly which is much appriciated.If it's not broken, don't fix it.<div></div>

[zormik]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zormik wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>I have np that they make one zone that is uberhard and you have to be ubertwinked in eof raiding gear.  I have a problem when i can't progress in the same way as i was because of hardcore guilds feeding the devs that every raidzone in kos is waaaay to easy.  The second time we entered DT we went as far as tarinax with only one wipe.  We were very proud of that achievement.  We were looking forward to find strategies to bring down that nasty dragon.  Now since the xpack we don't even have to think about going in there again ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Why would you not go there again?  You should go there and raid and get DT items, because they are nice and will make EoF raiding easier for your guild.  Besides, KoS is still current tier, its not like its gray and the items are useless.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Old zones should remain with the same difficulty as it was.  You can't take away people's advancement in there. We worked very hard to get that far, considering we are a casual raiding guild.  That's why i made that comment about the 75% of the peeps here being hardcore.  The devs get a wrong impression of the real balance of this game.  I thing the real balance of this game is 90 to 95% are casual players and 5 to 10% are semi-hardcore or harcore.  Despite those numbers those 5% are the vast majority on this forum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I'm talking about EH.  You don't see me saying make Clockwork harder or make Lyceum harder.  That's fine.  Easy stuff is required for progression just as much as hard stuff is.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All i'm trying to say is that if you only listen to the vast majority here you are hurting 95% of the eq2 population.  Don't misunderstand me, i don't have any problem with creating uberhard raids for those 5%.  As long as those 95% get some interesting raidcontent as well :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>You guys have always gotten more than us.  You got more in KoS, you got more in EoF... so quit complaining about the one zone designed for us.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't put anything in my mouth lol.  My point was that in this thread there's boasting that kos raiding is too easy and it should be harder bla bla bla.  That's the only thing i reacted on because it's a very onesighted comment.  I love the fact that there are hard raidencounters like chel'drak, matron, ... and i hope there are many more in eof.  You guys also have all the contested you go for, ... It gives me a goal to work towards.  Even if we don't kill them before T8 arrives at least we tried out best. Casual raiding guilds also like to try the harder content :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) we will go there again but as stated a lot of the hardcore guys in beta told to make it harder.  Which is wrong imo.  They should leave the difficulty as it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) and i said the comment wasn't about EH.  I'm fine with you guys getting raidzones that are uberhard</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) I didn't complained about the amount of content for either party.  I commented the boasting that raidcontent should be harder in kos</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway i'm not gonna go into a argument over this lol.  You have putted things in my mouth that i never said or never thought.</DIV><p>Message Edited by zormik on <span class=date_text>11-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:52 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zormik wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) we will go there again but as stated a lot of the hardcore guys in beta told to make it harder.  Which is wrong imo.  They should leave the difficulty as it is.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Uh no.  No one in beta said anything about making KoS content harder.  With the combat changes some encounters became the difficulty they should've always been, but that was due to the devs desires not the players.  Hardcore players are done with KoS, why would we care if its made harder or not.  All I care about is EoF raid content and EoF raid progression.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) and i said the comment wasn't about EH.  I'm fine with you guys getting raidzones that are uberhard  <FONT color=#ffff00>Then why are you complaining about KoS raids in a thread entitled Emerald Raid Zone.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) I didn't complained about the amount of content for either party.  I commented the boasting that raidcontent should be harder in kos <FONT color=#ffff00>Please quote where a "hardcore" raider said that in this thread.</FONT></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Mjollnyr]

<P>This was the first trip in for alot of guilds.  While it took ALONG time to get to Woushi,  it was the first trip.  We spent time exploring, poking around and learning the named encounters.  While the first several trips may take 4+ hours.  By the time a guild has learned this zone it will probably take 2-3 hrs to clear everything.  You can skip plenty of trash to go directly for named.  Once those named are dead, you can move along and skip more trash.</P> <P>It seems there are named that are random.  We had four named + Woushi.  We never saw the Wolf named or the rumbler.  Maybe next trip then.  Considering we were able to beat all the named (less Woushi) in KoS gear, and less then 75 AAs.  Sounds kinda poor for the end game raid zone of EoF.</P>

[Scort]

<P>Some people like Gaige just loves long [Removed for Content] boring enough to make you shoot yourself zones. Some people love yawn fest zones. Some people love wasting their play time on trash mobs. If Dissolution (mostly Gaige) says so, then it must be so.</P> <P>SOE needs to learn to listen to the other 98% of us.</P>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scortch wrote:<BR> <P>Some people like Gaige just loves long [Removed for Content] boring enough to make you shoot yourself zones. Some people love yawn fest zones. Some people love wasting their play time on trash mobs. If Dissolution (mostly Gaige) says so, then it must be so.</P> <P>SOE needs to learn to listen to the other 98% of us.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>And some people need to learn that some things just don't need changing. I'm not in Disso but I agree that this zone is fine as is (as long as the nameds are actually popping when they're supposed to). Its SUPPOSED to be the most difficult zone, but people are already complaining its too hard/long/boring.</P> <P>Don't do it if it is too long or boring to you. Gear up and up your guild dps, and then it won't be as long. Learn where you can skip some of the trash. Its part of LEARNING a zone, instead of being spoon fed it.</P>

[mik]

<div></div><div></div>We raided the zone last week but only 2 nameds were up (wolf and Tender which is always up). Other guild from our server got 4 nameds (i dont say they killed them). So we were quite disappointed - spent lots of time on only trash killing which is not fun. There two ways to correct the situation imo: one is to reduce amount of trash (which isnt very good imo cause some guilds will get 4-5 nameds every time and others only 2). The best way is to set a definate number of nameds each time raid enters the zone and the optimal number would be 4 imo (Tender plus 3 random nameds). And to allow for trash to have some small chance of dropping legendary gear and masters. In this case all guilds will be on equal conditions.<div></div><p>Message Edited by mikk1 on <span class="date_text">11-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:18 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by mikk1 on <span class=date_text>11-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:19 PM</span>

[camieo]

<DIV>we love the zone.. all the EOF zones have been very exciting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This zone has been by far the most challenging that we have ever gone to and the most dynamic in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To comment to the OP..  We too raided for 4 hours and didnt recieve one chest.  we got some paws and meats and silvers.</DIV>

[quamdar]

i don't get where this zone is that much of a "yawn fest", didn't seem that bad to me when we did it.  maybe we didn't do the trash that has all these HP but we went in without a brigand it was all still dieing pretty quick.and just remember a zone that take 6 hours to clear now will take a LOT less with a fully EoF equipped raid with full augments and 100 AAs.  so even if the mobs seem to have a lot of HP now and seem tough for trash mobs now they won't be when you have progressed a bit into EoF.<div></div>

[Untalent]

The trash mobs need to be dropping the fabled set items in these raid zones. Else this is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<div></div>

[Mjollnyr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Untalented wrote:<BR>The trash mobs need to be dropping the fabled set items in these raid zones. Else this is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Then we could have no progression just like KoS!  um, no thanks.</P>

[quamdar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Untalented wrote:The trash mobs need to be dropping the fabled set items in these raid zones. Else this is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<div></div><hr></blockquote>trash mobs + fabled items = a big itemization no nothen we end up with zones dropping 15 pieces of fabled a night like labs.</div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Untalented wrote:<BR>The trash mobs need to be dropping the fabled set items in these raid zones. Else this is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG>WORST IDEA EVER.</STRONG><BR>

[Sysiphus7]

<DIV>After proper progression, gear, 100aa, adornments, etc... I'm sure the trash wont take 3-4 hours. There's a sequence to all this stuff.</DIV>

[FlintAH]

Did this zone tonight and had an absolute blast.<div></div>

[DobyMT]

<DIV>I say that if I log in once a week, I should be able to clear all the raid zones at once.  But I should have to mash lots of buttons.  I don't want the easy way.  I want to hit ALL my buttons, and THEN beat the zone.  And be equal to all others who play all week to raid, and get items because of it.</DIV>

[Murdoc S]

This is my favorite new zone <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[thorvang]

i'd rather have to kill 10 "nameds" that drop no loot at all in an instance to get to the boss, than killing 100 trash mobs which are unfun cause they're lacking creativity. let me figure out 10 strategies for 10 unique mobs plus one for the boss. guess this would be more fun.

[Illustian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Untalented wrote:<BR>The trash mobs need to be dropping the fabled set items in these raid zones. Else this is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG>WORST IDEA EVER.</STRONG><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>So here's my take on things, background first:  70 in a "normal?" raiding guild.  Not casual, not hardcore, not alliance.  It seems that while there's an "appropriate" amount of overland-zone "trash" there should be a few (read 1-3) more Named including "rare" spawns.  While I'm sure most guilds in any fashion have adequate guild funds, it seems there should be more "loot" drops.  And by "loot" drops I mean cash.  No Fabled dropping from the trash. Rarely medium-low Legendary from trash. Occasional Treasured from trash. </P> <P>Example:</P> <P><STRONG>1000 trash in zone (don't start flaming already arbitrary easy number)</STRONG></P> <P>30% drop rate: 300 mobs</P> <P>     15% cash (and I'm not talking 50 silver either):  150 mobs</P> <P>     15% items:   150 mobs</P> <P>          5% body drops:   50 mobs</P> <P>          10% item drops:  100 mobs</P> <P>               6% "common" "vendor loot" "artisan" "status loot" drops:   60 mobs</P> <P>               3% Treasured drops:   30 mobs</P> <P>               1% Legendary drops:   10 mobs</P> <P>                     5% chance of Treasured/Legendary drops being Master chests with Master spells <STRONG>not</STRONG> "Fabled" equipment:   2 out of</P> <P>                     1000 mobs</P> <P>That's a liitle more like the kind of loot we should find in such a hard/challenging/difficult/long/epic/super/current endgame zone.  Am I totally off base here?  If you want to label this as the "Epic Overland Zone" shouldn't it at least resemble an overland zone in most respects?  I look at sharing say 6plat between 24 people in cash (would help with minor repairs unless your guild/raid are complete idiots/jerks and don't let cash get distributed from corpse looting).  A bit of extra body/vendor loot for sharing amongst friends (again if that doesn't get randomed amongst the raid there's serious greed going on).  A few items for the guild/raid to cash in on or transmute (Treasured) and maybe 12 items that 24 people may or may not be able to use other than Named MOBs.</P> <P>Look at it this way: if you killed 1000 mobs in any zone, wouldn't you expect to see <STRONG>at least</STRONG> this much loot?  Why shouldn't it be the same for an Epicx4 Raid zone?  It's all about the reward for taking down copius amounts of mobs that need 18-24 people.</P> <P>2% Loot=Not acceptable</P> <P>20% Loot=Possibly acceptable</P> <P>Is it wrong to want something more than a <STRONG>potential shot</STRONG> at the dozen items you'll get off 3-4 Nameds in a zone?  Unless those nameds are dropping 7-10 Legendary+ items I think my example wouldn't be offensive or imbalancing nor would it take the "edge" out of raid progression.</P>

[Scort]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scortch wrote:<BR> <P>Some people like Gaige just loves long [Removed for Content] boring enough to make you shoot yourself zones. Some people love yawn fest zones. Some people love wasting their play time on trash mobs. If Dissolution (mostly Gaige) says so, then it must be so.</P> <P>SOE needs to learn to listen to the other 98% of us.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>And some people need to learn that some things just don't need changing. I'm not in Disso but I agree that this zone is fine as is (as long as the nameds are actually popping when they're supposed to). Its SUPPOSED to be the most difficult zone, but people are already complaining its too hard/long/boring.</P> <P>Don't do it if it is too long or boring to you. Gear up and up your guild dps, and then it won't be as long. Learn where you can skip some of the trash. Its part of LEARNING a zone, instead of being spoon fed it.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There is a HUGE difference between difficult and something that is so boring people want to shoot themselves. People need to learn the difference. There is nothing wrong with zones being a challenge but, there is something wrong with the way this zone is implemented, in that it's boring as heck. Difficult encounters are one thing. Encounters who's sole purpose is to waste your playtime and cause a yawn fest, is not difficult, just stupid and boring. Just some people and dev members can't tell the difference between challenging and boring. All this trash isn't challenging. It doesn't make the zone more challenging. It just makes it 100 times more boring than it needs to be. It just chews up your playtime more than it should.</P> <P>The trash shouldn't drop fabled but, it should drop something. I say reduce the amount of trash and up the drop rate of maybe treasured, etc., with a chance of legendary class armor, like you get in these group zones. At least it would be worth the hassle.</P> <P>EQ2 has a HUGE disparity between risk/time/effort and reward.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:24 PM</span>

[Nevar]

<DIV>Trash mobs in raids zones should drop nothing more then Adepts if anything. This zone is for the named. I dont want to hear 4 months down the road EH trash mob grp looking for more. So keep them dropping nothing.</DIV>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>thorvang wrote:i'd rather have to kill 10 "nameds" that drop no loot at all in an instance to get to the boss, than killing 100 trash mobs which are unfun cause they're lacking creativity. let me figure out 10 strategies for 10 unique mobs plus one for the boss. guess this would be more fun.<hr></blockquote>Of course, there should be no army defending the orc lord, or Mayong. I mean, cmon, there should be no drones waiting to defend Wuoshi. Seriously, there is a lore reason, and an in-game reason to have trash. It's a timesink, timesinks are needed to keep people playing, without a timesink there is just go and burn everything down because all we have to do is worry about the named and get our loot and go home. The lore reason is as I just stated.

[thorvang]

right! there should be an army. 1000 mobs attacking at the same time. that would be an army.i want creativity, uniqueness, fun. beating the crap out of trash is not fun. it's a blunt slap in the face screaming "time goes by, time goes by, time goes by..."raids should last long, but they should be fun, not boring and repetitive.

[Manyak]

<DIV>IMO, the trash from the latest expansion should require strategy from the nameds of the previous expansions, while the nameds require new ones. So for T6, you could just take all the nameds from T5, change their appearence, give em different names, and just boost their level and stats (maybe not HP, just cuz its trash now and doesnt drop any loot, and it should go down faster). Then for T7, use T5 and T6 strats for trash, and new strats for nameds. Etc.</DIV>

[Ebarel]

<DIV>last weekend: 4 hours of fighting, 0 (zero, none, nothing) chest drops. Lots of tries on the rumbler until someone found out on the forums that its buggy. </DIV> <DIV>Sorry, but what is the fun in that. Not everyone has 6-8 hours time for a single raid. Either take out some of the trash, give them less HP or give them loot. </DIV> <DIV>I like some of the trash doing funny things like the sporelings from the fungi. There could be a lot of fun in the zone, but just hard=hours of trash bashing? No</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@ Lyndro: is it possible you missed the itemization for all of the trashmobs? Looks like noone had any drop in there yet, except the nameds after fixing them.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ebarel on <span class=date_text>11-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:14 PM</span>

[Scort]

<P>Huge timesinks make for a boring [Removed for Content] game. Massive amounts of trash wiht massive amounts of health with no loot = massive timesink = massively boring.</P> <P>Bugged content because the xpak was rushed out yet again, makes for a crappy gameplay, which ruins the fun you could have had.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:22 PM</span>

[TheStormrider]

<P>In the ranger forums they are claiming a ranger bow,  and ranger leggings etc have droppe doff of a named wolf in there.</P> <P>Wind Shaped Longbow I think one was.  Fabled 130 ish to 430 ish with a 445 proc or something.</P> <P>Id like to know if its itemized or not,  so i know if its worth my time to go in<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[Gaige]

The named are definately itemized.

[Scort]

We had only 3 named up when we went in. Ran out of time before people had ot leave. Killed one named and got 1 whole item. Whoop te do. What ever happened to chest like Djinn Master? If we are going to be stuck with doing boring [Removed for Content] trash, at least make the named chest worth it when we FINALLY get to them. I say poorly itemized at the moment.

[Vuz]

<DIV>Why does everyone want instant gratisfaction? You have plenty of content in KoS which offers instant gratisfaction, even content in EoF which offers it, timesinks are necessary to keep us playing four months down the road, I want upgrades to be existent until a week before the next adventure pack or expansion pack. Don't try to ruin the one zone that we have been wanting, for a long, long time. There is plenty more content for you to experience without ruining the one zone we enjoy. As for the suggestion of fabled set items dropping off trash, I don't know if you were being sarcastic or if you're truely [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but I personally do not want KoS 2.0, thank you.</DIV>

[Shurinow]

<P>I'm all for making raids more challenging.  It's a good idea.  But I hope when all the zones are balanced and the bugs are worked out, there is still a couple zones to get your feet wet in, as Labs and Lyceum should be.</P> <P>The last thing we need is a repeat of tier 5 in which the designers made all the raid content laughably easy at release.  A few months later, after a few of the 'top' raid guilds were fully fabled, they screamed to make it all harder, thus slamming the door on up and coming guilds and effectively removing the chance for anyone else to get the free ride they got.</P> <P>I think KoS zones should be about the same difficulty they were pre EoF and zones in the new expansion should be the next step from there.  There's still some bugs, so we'll see.  I, a level 70 berserker, got my butt handed to me in Lyceum tonight by Gnorbl--and I'm in full fabled tier 7 gear, with every 60+ master, over 60 AA, and all the new tier 7 adornments that recently became available.  So, obviously that zone ain't balanced.</P> <P>that's my 2 cp</P>

[Lotusd]

As a Raider not on par with Disso and others, I LOVE THIS ZONE!! Please dont give trash any loot, I woudl like to see more zones like this one, and actually I think, not from experience, that Woushi (sp?) should be harder, with a reward worth the risk. (same goes for inner sanc <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) This woudl keep uber guilds from completeing EoF in  month.Please do not Dumb down this zone for the masses. The reason ppl want loot from Trash is they dont want to have to risk anything for there reward, they want everything handed to them on a silver platter. We'll.. GO TO LABS

[Scort]

<DIV>Yea, clearing 100 trash mobs so you can kill one named and get 1 item is a lot of reward for the risk huh? roflmao</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scortch wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yea, clearing 100 trash mobs so you can kill one named and get 1 item is a lot of reward for the risk huh? roflmao <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Its a lot better fun than getting 17 relic drops plus 8 named drops in one visit to Labs.<BR>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>I think the answer is simple.  Maybe take out some trash mobs.  I mean I haven't been in there yet but if it's anything like the yawnfest that PPR was then something definitely needs to be changed.  Its one thing to have the excitement of going in your first couple of times, but once you've done the zone 10 times killing countless amounts of trash mobs is just boring.  End of story.</P> <P>On the other hand if you're complaining about going in and getting no chests - STOP GOING IN!  You need to gear up more to take down the nameds or tweak your raidforce.  The trash can be a deterrent but if you can't even take down the easy nameds, but this zone on hold until you've geared up more.  It's not meant to be tackled so early anyways and only the guilds that have been geared up totally in KoS stuff should be able to tackle these mobs and down them.</P>

[Scort]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scortch wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yea, clearing 100 trash mobs so you can kill one named and get 1 item is a lot of reward for the risk huh? roflmao <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Its a lot better fun than getting 17 relic drops plus 8 named drops in one visit to Labs.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I never said I wanted it to go that far either. A balance would be nice. A chest off named like Djinn Master or something. That would make it worth our time instead of 1 item in a chest from a named after clearing hundreds of trash. 1 item for 24 people spending hours on end clearing trash is hardly worth those 24 people's time, effort and cost. If I know, spending my time clearing all that crap, will in the end pay off after killing the named, on top of dealing with the challenge of the named, it would go a LONG way in making the zone more desirable and worth my playtime. At least I know I have something to look forward to other than what I have seen so far. Poorly itemized. <P><SPAN class=time_text>We can take down the named, other than the ones that are bugged.</SPAN></P> <P>It's as much, if not worst of a yawn fest that PPR was.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:14 PM</span>

[Myr]

<div></div>maybe some people just have to ask themselves this question....  why do you raid?  Is it for the lore, figuring out different strategies, or is it simply for loot.  Many people have different opinions on what makes a good raid zone, some people like drawn out fights, some people like instant gratification, and some people are not happy unless they physically get something to show for.  Is that just so you can show your "manlihood" nanny nanny, look what I have and you don't.  So what, not everyone raids for the loot.  With that in mind, I would think it's a bit selfish to assumethat zones should be just the way you like it, and you can't even begin to quote percentages on 95% of the ppl want this, 5% dont, not everyone voices their opinion.    so just ask yourself  why you raid  <span>:smileyvery-happy:Happy Thanksgiving </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Myrah on <span class=date_text>11-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:27 PM</span>

[Scort]

<P>I have to say BS on that one.</P> <P>If there were no loot in raid zones, they would never have anyone in them. EVERYONE raids for the loot. That's the whole purpose of raiding. What's the point in wasting your time going in to kill stuff if you don't get anything out of it? Would you go to work knowing you were not going to get paid for it? NO Same here. People are not going to put effort, time and cost into a raid knowing they would not get anything out of it. Silliest thing I ever heard.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:33 PM</span>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote: <P>I have to say BS on that one.</P> <P>If there were no loot in raid zones, they would never have anyone in them. EVERYONE raids for the loot. That's the whole purpose of raiding. What's the point in wasting your time going in to kill stuff if you don't get anything out of it? Would you go to work knowing you were not going to get paid for it? NO Same here. People are not going to put effort, time and cost into a raid knowing they would not get anything out of it. Silliest thing I ever heard.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:33 PM</span><hr></blockquote> Loot is the little extra that keeps me raiding. The main reason why I raid is because I enjoy raiding and find having to figure out the strategies to defeat mobs are fun and interesting to me.

[Myr]

<div></div>sorry you personally feel that way scor, and I don't think you can compare raiding to real life.  People do volunteer just for the satisfaction of it.There have been many raids where I haven't gotten any loot, and I still play.  Just remember not EVERYONE (as you put it) agrees with your opinion, nor mine for that fact.Happy Thanksgiving (time for pie)<div></div><p>Message Edited by Myrah on <span class=date_text>11-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:39 PM</span>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>The people who raid for loot are the people who join raiding guilds and stay in them for 4 months until they're geared up and quit.  I don't think there's one serious raider who only plays for loot.  Do you realize you need to go into raid zones week after week after clearing all the mobs for the 100th time.  Once your geared up those people quit.</P> <P>The serious raiders, people who've been doing it for 2 years now are the people who enjoy getting together as a group.  At first it's fun to figure out mobs, later it's fun to get gear, and then it's just fun to get together.  If you don't enjoy raiding for the sake of just raiding you'll never last in a raiding guild.</P> <P>I can guarantee you this guy hasn't been raiding since T5.  He probably played WoW, switched, played another MMO, switched, played another MMO, switched, and is playing eq2 now.  All the while he's been in raiding guilds and has never known what being a raider is or why he gets bored after a certain amount of time.</P>

[Nevar]

I raid for the loot. I enjoy getting master chests and seeing people get items and enjoy getting them myselves. I dont care for the lore or anything. Ive been in Disso since it formed so I guess your wrong.

[FlintAH]

I think you are an exception then Itook.  About 95% of the raiders who are in it for loot dont manage to make it long.  The ones who make it the long run are those who do it to be part of a team.<div></div>

[Hazeroth]

<P>Does anyone remember the classics? You know the old Atari games. Pac-man, Space Invaders (bare with me, I'm not off topic)</P> <P>In those games the only reward for completing a level was to do the same thing over again, only this time faster. Each level getting progressively harder and the only way to gauge how good you were was by your score. You know, remember, back when ever game had scores?</P> <P>I see the devout raider as very similar to the gaming mentality of old. They want to do a raid faster and better. They want to eliminate all free radicals and leave nothing to chance. They want to say "if the mob has the ability "x" and there are probabilities attributed to that ability" they want to quantify it, segregate it, and lower the probability of an occurrence from happening. All the while everyone getting into a groove and figuring out what they need to do to get that 1 more DPS out of an encounter. Yes, I mean 1 DPS, if you are not working to find that 1 DPS then you should not raid. You don't know what it's like to find perfection in yourself.</P> <P>This goes for all classes, this search for perfection. Healers need to know how much damage the Target does, how much damage will be absorbed by wards and pick the heal that uses the least amount of power for the most amount of healing.</P> <P>Everything counts, ever second lost adds up over the course of a 4 minute fight.</P> <P>This is why Emerald's yard trash is so important. The purpose of the trash isn't to bore you. It's to challenge you to become a fine tuned machine and kill them all in the shortest time possible.</P> <P>Sure it may take you 6 hours to clear the zone now. But once you have maxed your AA's, have full adornments. Everyone knows exactly what they need to do and where to go next. All this is rewarded by a shorter trip through the zone. 3 months from now it may take 3 hours. When the next level cap rise occurs the zone may take 2 hours or less.</P> <P>I would be lying if I said I didn't do it for loot. But in a true raiders mind Loot is not the end all and be all. It's a means to an end that will help you get that 1 more DPS. That one item that will make that 2 minute encounter now 1 minute and 59 seconds.</P> <P>Items are, quite simply the "Score" of EQ2. The speed in which your raid completes a zone is the reward. Because no one wants to be bored. They want to get it over quickly and if the developers gave that up right off the bat, that would amount to them giving you a high score without the skills or the effort required to achieve that score.</P>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>Well one thing, this game has barely been out long enough to know who's out for the long haul.  I guess 3 years or so since release which means 2 years 6 months of raiding is enough though.</P> <P>I still think from the sounds of it there's too much trash mobs.  There's tweaking your dps to max it out on trash mobs, then there's having so much trash people get tired and bored in a zone like PPR.  This sounds like PPR2.  It's just not realistic to raid zones for 6 hours every week for most people.  Been there, done that, don't have the time anymore.  </P> <P>I'll reserve judgement until I've done the zone but it sounds like the amount of trash involved is just way too much.  Even if you're parsing 20k raid dps + if it's taking 5+ hours there's too much trash.</P>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>mikemcmodmike wrote:<P>Well one thing, this game has barely been out long enough to know who's out for the long haul.  I guess 3 years or so since release which means 2 years 6 months of raiding is enough though.</P><P>I still think from the sounds of it there's too much trash mobs.  There's tweaking your dps to max it out on trash mobs, then there's having so much trash people get tired and bored in a zone like PPR.  This sounds like PPR2.  It's just not realistic to raid zones for 6 hours every week for most people.  Been there, done that, don't have the time anymore.  </P><P>I'll reserve judgement until I've done the zone but it sounds like the amount of trash involved is just way too much.  Even if you're parsing 20k raid dps + if it's taking 5+ hours there's too much trash.</P><hr></blockquote>There's not that much trash. The reason why it's taking 5+ hours now is because people are still trying to figure out the actual named mobs. Not the trash.

[Scort]

<P>I still say it's BS that people don't raid or do group instances for loot. You can claim that it doesn't happen just to disagree with me but it's wrong.</P> <P>I am talking about raids as a whole. Sure, you like to raid because it's fun. So do I but, I guarantee you that if there was no loot at all, there would be no raids period. There wouldn't be any raiding guilds at all. There would be no one playing the game. Look at how many people left after the disaster called DoF where nothing was itemized in the end game raid zones and they were bugged beyond belief. There has been a TON of people that left this game because of this stuff.</P> <P>You might have a FEW people, like maybe 20, that would try and do raid zones for the pure fun of it but, when there is no return for anyone's investment of time, effort and money spent, then what purpose is there to waste all that for nothing? Only an idiot would waste their time for nothing. Volunteering in RL is totally different. You do something for someone else. </P> <P>Volunteer work in RL corresponds more to this game in that you go in with your guild to raid a zone and contribute your part to help someone else get something so that they in turn help you get something. The goal is still the same, to get something for someone or yourself. If there was nothing to get to start with, then no one would go in.</P> <P>You honestly think there would be so many people raiding or playing the game for no returns? Then you are full of it.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:50 PM</span>

[FlintAH]

<div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>I still say it's BS that people don't raid or do group instances for loot. You can claim that it doesn't happen just to disagree with me but it's wrong.</p> <p>I am talking about raids as a whole. Sure, you like to raid because it's fun. So do I but, I guarantee you that if there was no loot at all, there would be no raids period. There wouldn't be any raiding guilds at all. There would be no one playing the game. Look at how many people left after the disaster called DoF where nothing was itemized in the end game raid zones and they were bugged beyond belief. There has been a TON of people that left this game because of this stuff.</p> <p>You might have a FEW people, like maybe 20, that would try and do raid zones for the pure fun of it but, when there is no return for anyone's investment of time, effort and money spent, then what purpose is there to waste all that for nothing? Only an idiot would waste their time for nothing. Volunteering in RL is totally different. You do something for someone else. </p> <p>Volunteer work in RL corresponds more to this game in that you go in with your guild to raid a zone and contribute your part to help someone else get something so that they in turn help you get something. The goal is still the same, to get something for someone or yourself. If there was nothing to get to start with, then no one would go in.</p> <p>You honestly think there would be so many people raiding or playing the game for no returns? Then you are full of it.</p><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">11-24-2006</span> <span class="time_text">06:50 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>No one said that people would raid w/o loot.  People who only raid for loot dont raid for long though.</div>

[anotherrogue]

<DIV>To start this I will admit that I am a raider wannabe... so I am in no way an expert (now that half the people started reading just rolled their eyes and moved on...) After reading all of messages on this thread. I have to wonder... if you need 100 aas, EoF raid gear to do this zone... why do you need more uber loot? Is this not supposed to be one of the hardest raiding zone in the game? So after you have beaten this... why do you need something better? It is just going to sit on your person for the next time you go through the hardest zone in the game...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your fabled/relic gear should already be had at this point... this isn't a 'gear em up' zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is braggin' rights. Plain and simple. This is the "bring your A game" raid zone... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now some people don't like it. Some people do. This is a fact of life, though... you cannot please everyone all of the time. Besides the bug the developer already stated that he knew (and fixed). Judging by the developer's post, I don't think SoE wants it to change. I think this zone wasn't meant to be for loot raiders, I think this is for tactical and bloodlust raiders.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People are different... that is what makes the world a little crazy... so some people raid for loot, some for bragging rights, but all for the fun of it (cause if your not having fun then it is becoming a job, and no one needs another one of those...) So maybe people should stop with the generalities of "this is what a hardcore raider is" or "no one raids purely for loot"- people raid... that is why there are so many raid zones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know if people should start yelling "broke" yet. Yeah it maybe a little tedious, but you cannot already have your entire raid force with the full gear and aas... as was intended by developers, so the fights take a bit longer... and the difference in named mobs is sort of fun... "surprise" this mob is in your raid instance today... Sort of gives you another reason to go back (since there is no loot). It should keep some raiders busy, but unfortunately it may make other raiders bored. Again, nobody can please everyone at the exact same time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Being a hedonist I have to say, if your not having fun... then don't raid that particular zone. Some zones are not for everyone, I don't like certain zones, doesn't mean I am going to quit playing all together. This cannot be the only high end raid zone in all of EoF... it just happens to be the toughest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I expect that some people may feel I am an idiot, or that I wouldn't understand "high end raiding"... and I am okay with that. I just think that maybe instead of generalizing how everyone raids or what everyone wants... we could look at all sides, or wait and see what SoE has in mind... (like instead of saying "broke" ask if this is the way they intended it... that these names drop no loot... with specifics...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps I am being too much of a hippy in hoping that the issue can be discussed without stereotypes, namecalling, and the typical "SoE screwed it up" :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[FlintAH]

<div><blockquote><hr>anotherrogue wrote:<div></div> <div>To start this I will admit that I am a raider wannabe... so I am in no way an expert (now that half the people started reading just rolled their eyes and moved on...) After reading all of messages on this thread. I have to wonder... if you need 100 aas, EoF raid gear to do this zone... why do you need more uber loot? Is this not supposed to be one of the hardest raiding zone in the game? So after you have beaten this... why do you need something better? It is just going to sit on your person for the next time you go through the hardest zone in the game...<font color="#ff0000">There are still contesteds and the next expansion will have even harder raid zones that will need better gear.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>Your fabled/relic gear should already be had at this point... this isn't a 'gear em up' zone.</div> <div> </div> <div>This is braggin' rights. Plain and simple. This is the "bring your A game" raid zone... </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Now some people don't like it. Some people do. This is a fact of life, though... you cannot please everyone all of the time. Besides the bug the developer already stated that he knew (and fixed). Judging by the developer's post, I don't think SoE wants it to change. I think this zone wasn't meant to be for loot raiders, I think this is for tactical and bloodlust raiders.</div> <div> </div> <div>People are different... that is what makes the world a little crazy... so some people raid for loot, some for bragging rights, but all for the fun of it (cause if your not having fun then it is becoming a job, and no one needs another one of those...) So maybe people should stop with the generalities of "this is what a hardcore raider is" or "no one raids purely for loot"- people raid... that is why there are so many raid zones.</div> <div> </div> <div>I don't know if people should start yelling "broke" yet. Yeah it maybe a little tedious, but you cannot already have your entire raid force with the full gear and aas... as was intended by developers, so the fights take a bit longer... and the difference in named mobs is sort of fun... "surprise" this mob is in your raid instance today... Sort of gives you another reason to go back (since there is no loot). It should keep some raiders busy, but unfortunately it may make other raiders bored. Again, nobody can please everyone at the exact same time. </div> <div> </div> <div>Being a hedonist I have to say, if your not having fun... then don't raid that particular zone. Some zones are not for everyone, I don't like certain zones, doesn't mean I am going to quit playing all together. This cannot be the only high end raid zone in all of EoF... it just happens to be the toughest.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>I expect that some people may feel I am an idiot, or that I wouldn't understand "high end raiding"... and I am okay with that. I just think that maybe instead of generalizing how everyone raids or what everyone wants... we could look at all sides, or wait and see what SoE has in mind... (like instead of saying "broke" ask if this is the way they intended it... that these names drop no loot... with specifics...)</div> <div> </div> <div>Perhaps I am being too much of a hippy in hoping that the issue can be discussed without stereotypes, namecalling, and the typical "SoE screwed it up" :smileyhappy:</div><hr></blockquote></div>

[CalypsoCGN]

<div><blockquote><hr>Untalented wrote:The trash mobs need to be dropping the fabled set items in these raid zones. Else this is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<div></div><hr>Like I said in a previous post...trash is supposed to drop some stuff (probably legenday items) but only has a chance >~2% to drop it...that was state by the devs in the beta forums...don't know though if that is intended for all raid zones, but if it's only 2% or less I think it's ok, as long as you only get an item from trash every 2 or 3 runs or something like that...</blockquote></div>

[FlintAH]

<div></div>iirc the dev said .5% but that was only regaurding FTH.<div></div><p>Message Edited by FlintAH on <span class=date_text>11-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:33 AM</span>

[Scort]

If you are going into a "bring your A game" raid zone, then people expect "A game" gear to drop. It's that simple. They expect the rewards to match their effort and the challenge. They will need it for the next thing to come along.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:42 PM</span>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote: If you are going into a "bring your A game" raid zone, then people expect "A game" gear to drop. It's that simple. They expect the rewards to match their effort and the challenge. They will need it for the next thing to come along.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:42 PM</span><hr></blockquote> It does drop A Game loot. You just need B Game loot to kill it, whereas if you have the low-end KoS loot, you only have C Game Loot. So get some better loot.

[mikemcmodmi]

Exactly, which shows what loot is for.  It's for progression.  Even once you kill the hardest mob the loot has a purpose.  It's to make killing that mob easier next time or for gearing up for the next expansion.

[Scort]

Yea, very very very little A game loot, compared to all the crap you have to deal with and the time and effort involved. VERY poorly itemized for 24 people spending as much effort and time and cost as they have to in this zone.

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:Yea, very very very little A game loot, compared to all the crap you have to deal with and the time and effort involved. VERY poorly itemized for 24 people spending as much effort and time and cost as they have to in this zone.<hr></blockquote>Because, I'm sure you've killed Wuoshi already and know what drops.

[Gungo]

<P>Woushi drops the fabled class legs. Mayong the chest. Not that i killed him just what i been told and i agree i raid not for loot but becuase i enjoying raiding. As i rarely bid on items. </P> <P>I don't mind the trash in EH. i do wish there was more named in EH and i kinda wish they would stop the ROOST design on raids. </P> <P>A dev once said and i agree that the EQ2 raider is nothing like the EQ1 Raider. People expect everything handed to them. People expect the short path to raids. People expect every fight to reward them no matter how trivial. People complain that there are heroic mobs on the way to a epic zone and expect eveyr raid zone to be a simple click. In refenrece to an eq1 raid Like plane of fire to kill Fenin Ro where you had to clear an army for over 2 hours to reach the boss mob who dropped 2 items this is in a raid of 54-72 people. (There was also 2 named w a chance to drop 1 additional item a peice) People didn't complain then, about the travel past epic quality mobs or the trash to the boss, but they do now. To me it is the experienced raider who really enjoys the journey and the challenge. While the rest of you just complain about the loot.</P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>11-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:31 AM</span>

[Scort]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scortch wrote:<BR> Yea, very very very little A game loot, compared to all the crap you have to deal with and the time and effort involved. VERY poorly itemized for 24 people spending as much effort and time and cost as they have to in this zone.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Because, I'm sure you've killed Wuoshi already and know what drops.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm sure you've killed Woushi already and know what drops.</P> <P>Umm, I guess you haven't been in there yet because last tiem i checked, there was more than just woushi.</P> <P>It's still a poorly done zone. They are still basing what's fun on a few people that don't have a clue what's fun for the rest of the people on all the other servers. Very poorly done and very poorly itemized.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:21 PM</span>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scortch wrote:<BR> Yea, very very very little A game loot, compared to all the crap you have to deal with and the time and effort involved. VERY poorly itemized for 24 people spending as much effort and time and cost as they have to in this zone.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Because, I'm sure you've killed Wuoshi already and know what drops.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm sure you've killed Woushi already and know what drops.</P> <P>Umm, I guess you haven't been in there yet because last tiem i checked, there was more than just woushi.</P> <P>It's still a poorly done zone. They are still basing what's fun on a few people that don't have a clue what's fun for the rest of the people on all the other servers. Very poorly done and very poorly itemized.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:21 PM</span><hr></blockquote> I disagree that it is poorly designed. Mobs have minions to do their bidding, they don't even have that much health! It's not like they have 3 million HP for each trash mob, they barely have a million. Honestly, I'm happy with the way trash is setup in this zone, compared to Inner Sanctum, the trash is miles better. Btw, did you even kill the static named yet to see what he drops? Btw, not everything is supposed to drop the best OMG loot in the game. The final boss of a zone, however probably does. Did you kill him? No, I didn't think so. I don't think anybody has killed him in his correctly working fashion. So please, deal with the trash, at least it a) doesn't respawn, b) doesn't have 3 million HP, or c) doesn't activate in weird/buggy fashions.

[mikemcmodmi]

I'm not sure if mayong and wuoshi drop the legs and chest.  I saw a post from the NPU templar who already has the chest and bp from their class set.  I don't know, but I don't think they've killed either yet.

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikemcmodmike wrote:<BR> I'm not sure if mayong and wuoshi drop the legs and chest.  <EM><FONT color=#3366cc>I saw a post from the NPU templar who already has the chest and bp from their class set.</FONT></EM>  I don't know, but I don't think they've killed either yet.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I dunno, I just checked the templars in NPU, and both are wearing Relic bp and legs. They may have had the LEGENDARY drops, not the FABLED ones.</DIV>

[Nevar]

Scortch you and your guild must suck if it this hard for you to kill a little trash and get a named. I mean im sorry this zone isnt labs like you want it to be.

[Spondulix]

<DIV>I think I know the post you guys are talking about, and I think those screen shots of the chest, legs and shoulders might've been taken on Beta. If the chest and legs dropped and one templar got them both this shortly after the expansion, I'd just have to... do something about it.</DIV>

[Beragon]

<DIV>NPU , didnt get the relic BP / Leggings, i doubt it, else we would have seen a big Screen on there HP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think Emerald Halls, is exactly what we want for Raidzones. No Mobs dont have tons of HP, it seems fine. We didnt had a problem really to clear trash and we dont have one for the first 2 Nameds. I really love the zone, no noob zone like Labs / Lyc or HoS, where you clear it within 1h. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you need to long for clearing trash, you need to farm lower gear first, its progression nothing else. If you think the zone has far to many Trash,then you should had visit it on beta. This expansion needs to make a difference btw people who invest alot time and people who dont. Hope SoE never change this Zone..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>Here's the post from the NPU cleric. Look at the date on it... 11/12, 2 days before the expansion went live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=28609" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=28609</A></DIV>

[Scort]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nevarer wrote:<BR> Scortch you and your guild must suck if it this hard for you to kill a little trash and get a named. I mean im sorry this zone isnt labs like you want it to be.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You are absolutely totally clueless and make assumptions that are just plain out stupid and your comment is plain out stupid.</P> <P>NOWHERE have I ever said we could not kill them. Killing them isn't a problem. Killing the massive amounts of them however is nothing but a yawn fest and the zone is boring as heck and poorly done like PPR, AOA and others were. SOE has been told that the majority of their players hate these boring [Removed for Content] zones but, they keep making them based on the feedback of like 2% of the players. One certain guild loves boring zones and SOE listens to them instead of the rest of us and as a result, we have more and more of these zones that are turning into yawn fest.</P> <P>Get the facts straight before you make stupid comments like that. There is a HUGE difference betwenn something being difficult and something being boring as heck. Obviously from what I have said, it's not the difficulty, it's the boredom.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>11-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:28 PM</span>

[PhroZenAssassin]

<DIV>Zone is Brilliant. I love it. Don't touch it!</DIV>

[mik]

This zone is no fun really. First of all it takes us 2 hours to clear to Tender and around him. Plus 0.5 hour to clear to any random named on the first level (except wolf). Then there are about 20 groups of brownies (each consisting of 4-6 mobs) which you need to clear to pull Gardener. Every such group takes us about 3 min to kill it plus at least 3 min to find another group (they re very small), place MT and raid, pull it taking into account Gardener patrolling route and huge KB. I assume it will take at least 2 hours to clear to and around Wuoshi. So we have at least 6 hours of trash clearing only. Plus people need breaks, go LD and so on. Plus any random named up takes 30-45 min to clear trash and kill. Plus stationary nameds...  It seems this zone is designed for 9-11 hours of raiding which is not fun imo. Only a few guilds can allow such long raiding even on weekends.P.S. I dont understand why Gardener teleports people around the zone level? It means death for them in 99% of cases as we cant allow to clear any more trash.<div></div>

[Corwinus]

Well, we tried that zone yesterday for a first exploration try, with a lot of humility even if now we can kill Tarinax on a regular basis (like for all the top mobs we died a lot learning).As a Ranger I love the design of the zone, gee, you can breathe, its outdoor ant it looks great, even the music is (imho) fun because its all nice and cool while there is deadly stuff lurking out there.What I agree with is that past the first 30 trash mobs it gets a bit boring, not asking for the trash to drop fabled like in Labs but at least fun things like some legendary gear set pieces or adornment components, you know ..., just to keep the guilies awake.Also we only saw 2 names : the Rumbler, and we have to figure him out, looks a lot like the drake in DT, so after he segments we will have to double or triple tank him, and the Tender and there i think there was a bug, after clearing all the trash around we pulled her and, we aggroed ALL THE ZONE lol, i dont think this works as intended, so maybe the devs want to look at it.So, in a nutshell, first impression is 1/ nice design 2/ may get a bit boring (timesink and no fun reward) 3/Still bugged , not for the Rumbler, but for the Tender 4/ where are the other names that people are talking about? because for sure they did not pop for us.Corwin Ranger 70 - Oasis - HeroPS : No flame required, its just a candid opinion<div></div>

[mik]

First, Tender is certainly not bugged.Second, you were only on the first floor of the zone. There 2 more floors of the same huge size with nameds and trash.<div></div>

[Vellek]

<P>The only guaranteed named are the Tender, the Gardener, and Wuoshi. </P> <P>The zone is fine the way it is. Yes, it is long and there is a lot of trash, but no one said you have to complete it every week. If your guild cant raid for 6+ hours, there are other shorter raid zones out there you can complete like Clockwork Menace Factory, Freethinkers, and Mistmoore Inner Sanctum. On days you do Emerald Halls just zone in, clear some trash, get to as many named as you can, and zone out. One thing I like about this expansion is they have given us a little variety this time. We have some very short raids and one very long one. I wouldnt like all raid zones to be like EH, but one is good.</P> <P>I wouldnt compare EH to AOA either. AOA was boring because of many factors. It had the same scenery and the same mobs on every floor. The only difference was the AEs, but they were all birds. The named sucked because everything was x2, so with a normal raid force of 24, half the raid had to sit out. Mobs also had a ton of hps, a lot more than the trash mobs in EH. </P> <P>There are a lot of different types of trash mobs in EH. The satyrs that make you dance are awesome. The fae drakes that dispell buffs suck but are at least different and interesting. The unicorns have a really cool knockback that reminds me of Rognog sometimes. All this, and the fact there can be a lot more named in EH than there were in AOA. And the named drop some really nice loot, unlike AOA. </P> <P>I do wish the named in EH werent random though, that does stink to get instances that have very few named in them but the three static ones. </P><p>Message Edited by Vellek on <span class=date_text>12-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:53 PM</span>

[Starness]

<P>So I'll be up front here and admit I stopped really reading about page 3 or 4. Wow...</P> <P>A few things after our first trip to EH last night.</P> <P>1) I think the named < lvl 75 (except the Rumbler) are too easy even. First trip in, both Wolf and the Dryad were up... We downed them in 4 maybe 5 pulls. The Strategy was easy to work out and executing it was almost as easy. I think we'll get them both first pull next time (if they're up and if there are no "whoopsies").</P> <P>2) The trash may have a lot of HP (I didn't look at how much they had) but they went down fast enough.</P> <P>3) Most of the trash seemed like they could be bypassed. Unless they're doing something that we were not aware of (like making named's AEs more powerful or something) it doesn't seem like you have to kill all those mobs.</P> <P>4) Dropping fabled set armor from trash in any zone is the dumbest idea ever. I stopped bidding on relic because it was just to common. Sorry if it makes me a stuck up elitest raider but I like to have items that are rare, relic was not rare by any strech. Why was it not rare? it dropped from trash mobs.</P> <P>5) I disagree that nothing > than Adepts should drop from trash. Master spells are ok IMO. Legendary stuff like the velium from DT was a good idea but I think in practice it's a fine line between stuff that a new recruit might want and stuff that's just (in anyone's opinion) not worth it. Fail to hit it dead on and you either have gear that's better than named drops (bad bad) or gear that's just weeee "Gratz Guild Bank" (bad also). So in the end... Master Spells, that's as high as I'll go on that.</P> <P>I'm hoping this stays hard, as it should.</P>

[HomeChicken]

<DIV>i really hate the idea of random named in a zone with a 5 day lockout</DIV> <DIV>thats just [Removed for Content] silly that guild A clicks the door and gets a chance at one amount of loot</DIV> <DIV>when guild B clicks the exact same door they just get junk mob after junk mob after junk mob</DIV> <DIV>thats really stupid IMO<BR>the instance should be exactly the same for one person as it is for the others</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Original Cinadien]

I see EH as a love/hate type of zone. Some love it because it is new and exciting but the ones that don't like it are thinking about 3-6 months of farming it once a week. As Vellek said, we don't have to farm it once a week but, were gonna...... As for the random named, I like suprises so im all about it. <div></div>

[Scort]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Original Cinadien wrote:<BR>I see EH as a love/hate type of zone. Some love it because it is new and exciting but the ones that don't like it are thinking about 3-6 months of farming it once a week. As Vellek said, we don't have to farm it once a week but, were gonna...... As for the random named, I like suprises so im all about it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Exactly, if it's boring already killing massive trash, think what it will be like when the newness goes away. Just like PPR and AoA, 3rd time through and people were like *(_)( I just remembered I have to go do such and such.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>12-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:21 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>i really hate the idea of random named in a zone with a 5 day lockout</DIV> <DIV>thats just [Removed for Content] silly that guild A clicks the door and gets a chance at one amount of loot</DIV> <DIV>when guild B clicks the exact same door they just get junk mob after junk mob after junk mob</DIV> <DIV>thats really stupid IMO<BR>the instance should be exactly the same for one person as it is for the others <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I disagree.  However I think there should be a minimum amount of named per zone in, instead of just the portal guards and Wuoshi.</P> <P>Like one other named per floor plus the one that blocks progression, however which named it is should still be random.</P> <P>Not only does it keep loot scarce, it keeps that carrot dangling in front of your face and makes going to EH week after week interesting and hopeful, instead of been there, done that, got all the loot like KoS.<BR></P>

[Kizee]

<DIV>There are 2 things I don't like about this zone:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.) There shouldn't be as much trash for a zone this big that drops nothing. They need to reduce the trash or make them drop some lengendary equipment to keep the raid awake thru the grind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.) I HATE the concept of rare mobs in a zone. I disliked the rare pops in Roost x2 but that is a tiny zone and tolerated it. In a zone as big as EH all the named should be up every time. 3 "definately there bosses" in a zone that big is really stupid.</DIV>

[Scort]

<P>Yep, we did this zone again last night. Boring. Killed the Prince and got crappy loot from him. All that time we spent clearing trash and time spent killing him and we get 1 piece of crap.</P> <P>I swear, they have no clue on how to itemize a zone and they really have zero clue on risk versus reward. Each named needs to drop 2-3 pieces and final boss needs to drop 4-5.</P> <P>EQ had a MUCH better reward vs risk system and they had loot worthy of wasting this kind of time and effort for.</P> <P>We only had Mistress like twice and the dog only once and that was when the zone crashed on us.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>12-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:30 PM</span>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:<P>Yep, we did this zone again last night. Boring. Killed the Prince and got crappy loot from him. All that time we spent clearing trash and time spent killing him and we get 1 piece of crap.</P><P>I swear, they have no clue on how to itemize a zone and they really have zero clue on risk versus reward. Each named needs to drop 2-3 pieces and final boss needs to drop 4-5.</P><P>EQ had a MUCH better reward vs risk system and they had loot worthy of wasting this kind of time and effort for.</P><P>We only had Mistress like twice and the dog only once and that was when the zone crashed on us.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>12-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:30 PM</span><hr></blockquote>You left the Tender of the Seedlings up.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.) I HATE the concept of rare mobs in a zone. I disliked the rare pops in Roost x2 but that is a tiny zone and tolerated it. In a zone as big as EH all the named should be up every time. 3 "definately there bosses" in a zone that big is really stupid. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>No.  Really stupid is 20 named in a zone so you can outfit almost an entire raid with one trip.  If you don't like the random named, don't do the zone.<BR>

[THteampink]

If they ever fix the rumbler event I will be happy.  By fix I mean put it in line in terms of difficulty.  It's sad when guilds have to zone in and check rumbler just to see if they can possibly get past the Tender.<div></div>

[Gaellen]

We've only been in there twice, so no expert here, but I actually enjoyed the challenge of the trash.  Each different type we fought had a different "thing", so it wasn't repetative, and they had extremely low HP.  People who are comparing this zone to PPR are smoking crack or taking the wrong raid into the zone: a 6-healer raid in PPR could spend 4-5 minutes on a trash pull, here, it's more like 1-2 (or less). I'd just be happy if the named weren't buggy both times we've gone in.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Scort]

<DIV>At this rate, the next 2 xpaks will be out before you get geared up from EoF and then it won't matter anyway as there will be level 80 and a new tier.</DIV>

[Vegter Leeuw]

EH is a time consuming pita. and whats up with the longer lockout time? all the other raid zones, overall, have more nameds than EH and drop the same quality of loot. imo it should be on the same lockout timer as inner sanctum and free thinkers.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vegter Leeuwen wrote:<BR> overall, have more nameds than EH and drop the same quality of loot. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) EH has the most named of any zone in EoF.  They're just random and not all up at once.  It has more named on the first floor than FTH has at all.</P> <P>2)  Have you cleared EH?  You've killed Wuoshi, the Gardener, all the 2nd and 3rd floor named?  If you haven't your entire post is based on ignorance, and therefore should be dismissed anyway.</P>

[Caetrel]

<hr size="2" width="100%">At this rate, the next 2 xpaks will be out before you get geared up from EoF and then it won't matter anyway as there will be level 80 and a new tier. <hr size="2" width="100%">While I doubt this will occur, I don't think it would be that bad of a thing.  A nice medium between t5 and KoS would be great IMO.  I don't wanna be full EoF fabled in a month /snore.  My guild raids 3 nights/12-14 hours a week and I have 2 EoF fabled already. <div></div>

[Psykil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:<BR>Itemization is done for the zone.  If something isn't dropping loot it is a bug, and we'd like to figure out what caused it. :p (Unless it was the charm bug, in which case we already have)<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok we have a problem, we did the zone last night was a little bummed to only have Tender up on the first floor, but decided to go on hoping the second floor would have a couple, in which it did. We had Sariah, Watcher of the Herd, and Gardner. We killed Sariah and got some Pally gloves and moved onto Watcher of the Herd, this named was new to us 1st time he has been up, we killed him and got a master chest, in this master chest consisted a L70 Conj. master spell and that  was all. so is this guy not a real named or is what you stated in my quote false? I dont have a picture to post but someone in my guild does and will get it up asap so you can see for yourself, just seems a little lame to get a master spell as only loot from a named on 2nd floor of EH.</P> <P>On a side note Gardner is bugged completely, he has an AE called "lag" so basically when he ae's it lags the zone completely out and resets, its probably one of the weirdest things ever if you have never seen or had it done to you personally you should try it out, like we did for 2hrs, talk about frustrating.</P> <P>So in short,4 named.. 2 dead 1 bugged 1 master spell ... 5hrs (priceless)</P>

[Kilaelya]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Psykil wrote:<BR> <P>Watcher of the Herd, this named was new to us 1st time he has been up, we killed him and got a master chest, in this master chest consisted a L70 Conj. master spell and that  was all.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>I got a picture of us popping the chest to see only a level 70 conjuror master, joy!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://kilaelya.com/images/EQ2/HerdWatcherNoLoot.jpg" target=_blank>http://kilaelya.com/images/EQ2/HerdWatcherNoLoot.jpg</A></DIV>

[Scort]

Yea, this zone is so poorly itemized, it's pathetic. The loot we been getting is pathetic. Thye really need to learn how to itemize and get a better understanding of reward versus risk because right now, they don't have a clue.

[Pitt Hammerfi]

<DIV>rumbler seems a bit tough <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Mig]

Gaige, if your only concern is getting loot too quickly, simply have them increase the lock out timer on all the zones. Make them 2-3 weeks long. That would be better than forcing people to sit through mind numbing content. Let's look at reality though. Your fear is that you will gear up too quickly. Characters have 20+ equipment slots. At 24 people that's around 480 possible upgrades for your raid. This is provided that you have the same 24 people every raid and no rots. Let's say every night you raid, your raid gets three pieces of gear and no rots. That's 160 nights of raiding until you start selling loot rights. Let's say your guild is not casual, but not really hardcore and raids only (heh, only) 4 days a week. That's still over 40 weeks of raiding. Factor in rots and the fact that most guilds won't have people attend every raid, your looking at well over a year of raiding to get your guild upgraded in full EOF gear. There will only be a few guilds out there that will have completely farmed out EOF by the time the next expansion rolls around. Regardless, I don't think EH should be changed either, but I certainly don't want to see many more zones like this in the game. And SOE really shouldn't be designing content because a few uber guilds might get bored.<p>Message Edited by Migyb on <span class=date_text>12-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:57 PM</span>

[Scort]

<P>Well, they should have done this like they did relic and have patterns/molds. We have got like 6+ items already that went to alts because it's always the same POS item for that class we like have 1 of or no one wanted the POS. We always seems to get a crapload of SK or paladin crap. It seems a lot of guilds always get more of one type than other guilds and a lot of stuff goes to alts or gets sold by guild bank to vendor.</P> <P>This is utter BS. 24 people with all those slots to fill and we get the same old junk over and over and over and over and over and never get to gear up what is needed by people that need it.</P> <P>Named in Freethinkers dropping same junk that people are getting off heroic mobs and they all share the same crappy loot table. The loot in Emerald halls isn't very great either.</P> <P> </P>

[vladsamier]

<P>This zone NEEDS TO BE FIXED BAD. The Gardener creates 7-8 seconds of lag after the AE charm wears off.. This has been bugged for oh.... several weeks now that I know of. </P> <P>Also, THANK YOU SOE for changing the seedlings to have the same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] AE buff strip that the fairydragons have... Also thanks for giving the Overseer of Change this ability. Ninja changes FTMFW....</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by vladsamier on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:08 AM</span>

[Koltur]

Only tried this zone once, it seemed tough, but many of our regular raid players were out for holiday so, we didn't get very far.Had a decent look to the zone, kinda refreshing (albeit laggy) and some interesting AE effects, which seems above and beyond the standard norm.Killed most trash with relative ease and quickness, got to a dog and killed that, got a nice bow, killed more trash and got to a tree, we were beating up on that, when some dancing fool pops in and does a cute dancing trick to the raid.. well, not had a laugh in raid like that for a while to say the least <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Progression is good tho', in my opinion. KoS is pretty much a joke at the moment and adding a new level of difficulty makes it more rewarding overall, and keeps the player coming back. It's about challenge and reward. Ain't nothing quite like the rush of trying a mob several different ways and finally getting him, and seeing that cute little metal box with (hopefully) some pretty slick item that doesn't get transmuted.(oh ya, only thing that annoys me at all, is all the sweet procs on legendary gear.. can we get some of those awesome procs on .. Fabled gear?! please? *flutters eyes* Pretty please?)<p>Message Edited by Koltur on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:19 AM</span>

[Caetrel]

<hr size="2" width="100%">got to a tree, we were beating up on that, when some dancing fool pops in and does a cute dancing trick to the raid. <hr size="2" width="100%">Lol that is Prince Thirneg, one of the random nameds that can pop (like the dog).  You want to kill all the random adds before messing with the floor boss or you get the other named encounter added. <div></div>

[GMPOTU]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vladsamier wrote:<BR> <P>This zone NEEDS TO BE FIXED BAD. The Gardener creates 7-8 seconds of lag after the AE charm wears off.. This has been bugged for oh.... several weeks now that I know of. </P> <P>Also, THANK YOU SOE for changing the seedlings to have the same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] AE buff strip that the fairydragons have... Also thanks for giving the Overseer of Change this ability. Ninja changes FTMFW....</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by vladsamier on <SPAN class=date_text>01-04-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:08 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/agree ..................   FTMFW

[vladsamier]

<P>by the way... If it matters, I will be happy to send the dev's a fraps'ed video of exactly what is happening. You can even use the video to count the seconds of lag that is created. . .  I dont think that if a GM that came inside the zone to look for the horrid lag spikes from hell would see anything unless they are actually in the raid, so the video is the best option for someone to see what the heck is going on. </P><p>Message Edited by vladsamier on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:15 PM</span>

[Scort]

<P>Oh, they know very well what the lag is like. If they could figure out how to fix it, you would have thought they would have fixed it 6 months to a year ago with all the zones that lag like crap and contested that lag like a mutha when you engage them.</P> <P>Either they are using lag as a way to make encounters tough or, they can't figure out how to fix it, or they just could care less. I believe the last 2 though.</P><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>04:58 PM</span>

[Snarks]

This zone, in its current state, in my opinion, has dethroned PPR as the worst effort vs. reward raid in the game. Legions of trash that drop nothing. Easy named that drop crap. (or a single master spell if you are so lucky!). Broken named.Who designed this? In all seriousness, this zone is complete crap top to bottom. HUGE potential, HUGE pile of crap.<div></div>

[Psykil]

<DIV>Yeah, its dissapointing. This zone has huge potential to be one of the best new raid zones if done correctly, I seriously hope they adjust the loot/bugs/lag and make this more desirable to raid. </DIV>

[Scort]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> snarkteeth wrote:<BR>This zone, in its current state, in my opinion, has dethroned PPR as the worst effort vs. reward raid in the game. <BR><BR>Legions of trash that drop nothing. Easy named that drop crap. (or a single master spell if you are so lucky!). Broken named.<BR><BR>Who designed this? In all seriousness, this zone is complete crap top to bottom. HUGE potential, HUGE pile of crap.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Definately agree 100%. Probably the same one that designed PPR, Eye farming and some of the other hated zones.</P> <P>From what I have heard, he doesn't even play the game and he thinks that massive amounts of trash with massive amounts of health with no loot actually makes the game more fun.</P> <P>The crappy loot you get off the named isn't worth the effort and risk you go through.</P> <P>Now, if you had to wade through all that to get to the named and they dropped 4 pieces of high end raid gear (and I mean stuff with decent stats and really worthy to be called high end raid gear), it would be worth it.</P>

[hahnbard]

<DIV>Lol that is Prince Thirneg</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This may be old, I haven't searched the whole thread:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone tried asking him where the phat lewt is?!?</DIV>

[Mig]

<blockquote><hr>hahnbard07 wrote:<DIV>Lol that is Prince Thirneg</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>This may be old, I haven't searched the whole thread:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Has anyone tried asking him where the phat lewt is?!?</DIV><hr></blockquote>Yes. No he doesn't kill you.