How hard is HoF?

[Merrygr]

<DIV>Me (lvl 70 Conj) and 4 friends: Warden 70, Monk 70, Troub 69 (dinged 70 in zone) and Ranger 68, tried Hof for first time yesterday.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm very much a "the glass is half empty" kind of person and thought that we would get slaughtered in there, but things went a lot better than I thougth they would.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not exactly sure where we are on equipment, but lets say that we are a notch above mastercrafted and mostly adept 3 with some masters thrown in as far as equipment and spells go. We are competent, but not great (we only play once a  week, but are experienced players).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Apart from a few mistakes we didn't have much of a problem with zone until the mob you can put to sleep (we failed horribly on that one until we read up on it and put her to sleep) and the last mob. Not sure if we failed due to mistakes or if it was to tough for us. Likely the later. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All nameds were close calls. Tank had a sliver of health several times in most of those fights, so some of them could have gone either way, but thats what makes the game fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I had read a lot about the debuf that requires a cure or tank will surely die. Didn't see any evidence of this at all. Looked through my logs and saw that Ishtaran used something called Debilitating blow. Was that it? It was the only mob in zone that used it according to my logs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did we get very very lucky, or has the debuff that I have read so much about been mostly removed? Or have I simply confused the zone with another zone?</DIV>

[wesblueeyes]

<P>Ok so I take it you used the Monk as your tank and the Warden was only healer? That was pretty much your only problem, dont get me wrong Monk can tank the zone, Im a 70 bruiser and I tank the zone alot. The problem is you need two healers to keep a brawler up in HoF at the current time. Well I have cleared all of HoF except for the sleeping guy on the table when I was tanking and only had a Templar for a healer, but I think Im geared a bit better than the average brawler =/ </P> <P>try picking up a shaman or a cleric and you should clear zone no problem. or another great asset that helps a brawler tank easy is a chanter (their mez+stun/stifle abilites make it easy for a brawler to handle large crowds). Again sounds like you all know what you are doing just a suggestion.</P>

[Renpatsu]

<P>Debilitate is the debuff in question. It's still there but it's hardly an issue anymore. A Berserker (69 at that time), a boxed Mystic (I think 62 or 63 at that time if I remember correctly) and me (with my Warden alt) did trio up to Sothis - where we simply didn't have the DPS to get Sothis down in time. Some unlucky root breaks on the adds and power issues later on in fight did hinder us from moving further in. The Berserker was in offensive stance most of the time.</P> <P>The table guy is where Debilitate can be ugly, just depends if Debilitate and a high damage CA hit very close together. Such a sequence is able to one shot tanks. So curing is a very good idea, but the zone is even possible without curing at all - like a friend with a very low Defiler did one time. Granted, with a T7 fabled raid tank and raid quality DPS.</P> <P>The zone is a bit more difficult with a brawler tank than a plate tank for a Warden healer from my point of view so I think you probably did a good job there. I do solo heal HoF with both plate and 'pyjama' tanks.</P>

[Merrygr]

<DIV>wesblueeyes:</DIV> <DIV>Thanks, </DIV> <DIV>My issue was that we managed to get so far, not that we failed in the end <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Group makeover is not something we can control. We are a group of rl friends that playe once a week, and we play the toons we have <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Renpatsu:</DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the info. Seems that I very much overestimated the problems that the debuff would cause us. I don't deel that we are ready to take on the last two mobs yet, but in time ....</DIV>

[kenm]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>With your setup you should really have had no issue clearing the zone in it's current nerfed to heck state.  I've done it with just myself (70 berserker), a 70 monk, and a 70 templar and I tanked everything in offensive with a buckler.Unless I'm really overestimating monks, you should be good with a healer that isn't asleep.<div></div><p>Message Edited by kenman on <span class=date_text>10-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:02 AM</span>

[valkyrja]

<div><blockquote><hr>wesblueeyes wrote:<div></div> <p>Ok so I take it you used the Monk as your tank and the Warden was only healer? That was pretty much your only problem, dont get me wrong Monk can tank the zone, Im a 70 bruiser and I tank the zone alot. The problem is you need two healers to keep a brawler up in HoF at the current time. Well I have cleared all of HoF except for the sleeping guy on the table when I was tanking and only had a Templar for a healer, but I think Im geared a bit better than the average brawler =/ </p> <p>try picking up a shaman or a cleric and you should clear zone no problem. or another great asset that helps a brawler tank easy is a chanter (their mez+stun/stifle abilites make it easy for a brawler to handle large crowds). Again sounds like you all know what you are doing just a suggestion.</p><hr></blockquote>I'd say ideally you need a 2nd healer, but I've done HoF a bunch of times with 1 healer and a Monk.  Granted, we are proabably a little better equipped than the OP describes.  It just takes some stratagey and I enjoy it because it offers more of a challenge than the walk-in-the-park it is with 2 healers.</div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>You never need 2 healers.  If you need a second healer for anything except nizara the healer who can't solo heal it needs to learn their class better because they aren't playing up to their potential.</P> <P>As a warden I've solo healed everything EASILLY even before HoF got nurfed with every kind of tank.</P>

[Callim]

<P>HoF is probably the 2nd hardest instance behind Nizara, but its pretty easily done still.</P> <P>What can make it rough is the sheer randomness.  I've tanked in there many times, and sometimes its smooth as silk, other times it seemd each trash group comes equiped with a dispatch and a hammer fist at the wrong times.</P> <P>The sleeping named is the hardest off the bat usually since he almost always opens with a dibeiliate/dispatch/hammer fist.</P> <P>The number one thing you can do to make the zone easier is to get your healer used to it, the danger is in the debuffs, and the more used to curing quickly your healer is the smoother your runs will be.</P> <P> </P>

[Knesh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Callimor wrote:<BR> <P><STRONG>HoF is probably the 2nd hardest instance behind Nizara, but its pretty easily done still.</STRONG></P> <P>What can make it rough is the sheer randomness.  I've tanked in there many times, and sometimes its smooth as silk, other times it seemd each trash group comes equiped with a dispatch and a hammer fist at the wrong times.</P> <P>The sleeping named is the hardest off the bat usually since he almost always opens with a dibeiliate/dispatch/hammer fist.</P> <P>The number one thing you can do to make the zone easier is to get your healer used to it, the danger is in the debuffs, and the more used to curing quickly your healer is the smoother your runs will be.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Uh I dont think so. Nek 3 is a lot more complicated than HOF. HOF is utter crap now that SOE nerfed it so badly. Is it still a challenge sure but not the challenge it used to be. Could be likely to raid gear but at the same time though SOE has been known in this game to lower the difficulty once the zone has been out awhile and people start flocking to it because of good loot, exp or both. Someone say splitpaw?? But I might rank HOF 4th toughest T7 instance. I would put Vaults up there because those mobs like to cast and cast a lot! But not many people do Vaults as often as HOF. But HOF is definately not the 2nd toughest zone in T7 at least not anymore.<BR>

[Antryg Mistrose]

/cancel_spellcast/usea Cure Trauma(also comes in handy for raids)For table guy, casting your 'Dont Get One-Shotted' spell and crossing fingers used to be required.  The zone is readily solo healed now<div></div>

[Jayad]

<P>It depends a lot on your gear and players.  If your healer and tank are good, it's very easy to solo heal.  If you have average legendary type gear and adept3 spells, then it can be solo healed but it can be tricky at times.  If you have less than that, probably requires two healers to not die much unless they're skilled.</P> <P>The debuff would affect a brawler less than a plate tank since they rely less on the mitigation it reduces.  I'm sure that it would happen many times, so I think your parser is wrong. It might only happen every few fights, but it's pretty regular with all the debuffing mobs.  There's also a common "mini-debilitate" which reduces mitigation by about half as much but can also get your tank beat up quickly.   I forget the exact name of it.</P> <P>These days I'm bored solo healing HOF, but it was a lot more difficult in the earlier days before spell upgrades & gear.  Even a well-equipped tank can get 1-shotted (or two shotted) with a well-placed debuff and a crit or two. </P> <P>As an earlier poster mentioned, nek3 is a lot harder than HOF, simply because the mobs hit harder, although it's still not hard compared to nizara.</P>

[Araxes]

Shortly after the release of KoS I did it with a group when I was level 67 and we made it through on the first try with no wipes.However on some subsequent runs it was completely different; multiple wipes.Ishtaran is the toughest mob and most groups complete the zone and then return to fight him last to avoid unnecessary wipes.  The mob that groups I've been in wipe to second-most often is definitely Katalkana (that's the one you put to sleep just before Doom Lord Septimus; not sure of the spelling).Sothis is only a challenge if you don't have enough DPS in your group to burn him down before the animated warriors come up the ramps and/or you don't use your flammable vials.Tammuz is the only other mob worth mentioning - he's the first one groups will encounter and it can be a tricky battle if you take on adds while doing the pull.  I've seen seasoned groups have a tough time now and then.<div></div>

[boogar]

A good trick with Sothis is to pull him to the stairs in the hallway.<p>Message Edited by boogar on <span class=date_text>10-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:35 PM</span>

[Illustrious]

<P>The debuff would affect a brawler less than a plate tank since they rely less on the mitigation it reduces.  I'm sure that it would happen many times, so I think your parser is wrong. It might only happen every few fights, but it's pretty regular with all the debuffing mobs.  There's also a common "mini-debilitate" which reduces mitigation by about half as much but can also get your tank beat up quickly.   I forget the exact name of it.</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>The debilitate debuff actually affects a brawler far more than say a guardian. The debuff puts a fabled brawler down to around 500 miti compared to a fabled guard f.ex down to about 3k miti (obviously figures change depending how well geared). Avoidance (until EoF at least) does not work on the names in there so the brawler will get hit just as often as the Guard but for a heap load more damage.</P> <P> </P> <P>That being said even as a monk its pretty easy these days to solo heal as long as the healer cures those trauma dots asap. Wardens IMO are actually very good brawler tanks, not as good as shammies maybe but definatly better than clerics.</P>

[EQPrime]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Illustrious wrote:<BR> <P>The debuff would affect a brawler less than a plate tank since they rely less on the mitigation it reduces.  I'm sure that it would happen many times, so I think your parser is wrong. It might only happen every few fights, but it's pretty regular with all the debuffing mobs.  There's also a common "mini-debilitate" which reduces mitigation by about half as much but can also get your tank beat up quickly.   I forget the exact name of it.</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>The debilitate debuff actually affects a brawler far more than say a guardian. The debuff puts a fabled brawler down to around 500 miti compared to a fabled guard f.ex down to about 3k miti (obviously figures change depending how well geared). Avoidance (until EoF at least) does not work on the names in there so the brawler will get hit just as often as the Guard but for a heap load more damage.</P> <P> </P> <P>That being said even as a monk its pretty easy these days to solo heal as long as the healer cures those trauma dots asap. Wardens IMO are actually very good brawler tanks, not as good as shammies maybe but definatly better than clerics.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree 100%.  I often have a monk tank this and the debilitate buff can equal a 1-shotted tank any time it lands.  The raiders and centaurions also cast it, and centaurions really can rip up a brawler tank, especially a monk.  Combat arts don't worry so much about avoidance and a monk with 500 mitigation is an easy target for 1-2 shotting.  Clerics are probably the worst healers for brawlers because our reactives can't begin to cover the spike damage they take, and our direct heals are pretty slow.  For brawlers, shamen are the best, followed by druids.

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>I don't know about clerics or whatnot, but I know as a warden I solo healed a lvl 67 tank in t6 fabled armor before the nurf to the zone.  Sure I might get unlucky in subsequent trips and 1 out of every 2 times we'll wipe, but doing the zone with tank, healer, util and 3 dps makes the zone sooooooo much faster it's definitely worth it.  </P> <P>As for a monk tanking it, as a warden it doesn't really matter.  Monk, Guard, Zerk, Brigand... as long as they can hold hate I can do about 400 dps while solo healing it no problem.</P>

[rabbitfoofoo]

I disagree with wesblueeyes.  I have solo healed with my 70 fury a WELL EQUIPED monk on several occasions through HOF - no wipes.<div></div>

[Jayad]

<DIV>A brawler can tank it and be solo healed.  You just need your tanks to have good gear.  Many brawlers focus on DPS skill & gear instead of MT.  Which is fine if you have really good gear (it doesn't take uber gear for HOF), but for your run of the mill average type, it could be an issue.</DIV>

[VizP]

<div></div>Yes have to second the whole fact that the zone can 'easily' be solo healed if the group is decent - I didnt 'even' know Halls of Fate was even considered difficult until I read this thread. The times I've worked through Ive been the solo healer and covered it comfortably (70 defiler) - it is 'of course' important to have a decent tank and group but with those, a secondary healer is not essential (in fact a secondary healer is not necessary for most zones anyway - Ive done Nek 3 as the only healer too but in that case we only killed the nameds and skipped the rest. All the guardian had to do was keep aggro and I kept him up). Just a rather important issue with Sothis though as someone mentioned.. do need to pull him to stairs and stay on the side walls due to his AE effect issues. Otherwise it should just go fine - if you have a good group and one healer but something is going wrong, it really is a case of a weak link somewhere in there. More often than not it is a simple tank issue - and not a case of the 'class' (bruiser/monk) but the fact that their armour may not be up to scratch or the tactics being employed are not being defensive enough. Heck I love bruisers/monks...<div></div><p>Message Edited by VizP on <span class=date_text>11-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:24 PM</span>