Just did my first ever tier 7 raid

[Guy De Alsace]

Wanted to know what it was about and a shout went up asking for members for Labs trash mobs. Well I dont raid, my toon is a 62 mystic with a few adept III's but mostly adept 1's with no fabled items at all. The phrase "lamb to the slaughter" came to mind. I died upwards of 10 times. My equipment was gone and I died a few times after that. They were all one-shots. We got one piece of mage relic and no other loot of any kind at all. I came out with 2.2% debt, about 1% xp gained, zero loot and 8g in repairs (no fabled - yay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). I've come to the conclusion that raiders are virtual masochists. In the same time doing SoS I could have got 20% xp, tons of loot and no deaths. Alright I was way too low really at 62 but they were one-shotting all ppl in the raid apart from the tank, even the lvl 70's. Actually they one-shotted the tank on pull about 6 times as well but hey... The thing that amazed me was the fact there were no chests at all - not even boring wood ones with adepts in. We got one mage relic drop and that was it. Even the heroic instance zones have a thousand percent more loot than was available in here...as a nonraider the loot in here was worse than solo loot. At least you have a 100% chance of corpse loot as a solo! In here you have a low chance of even winning any corpse loot let alone the nonexistent chest drops. <div></div>

[Faheuc]

<P>that is the idea, the rewards from raiding can be really good but hard to get. relic gear has a low drop rate (though you can get lucky or unlucky). also, you were killing trash mobs. the real good stuff is on the named mobs. as for adepts, raiders arent really going to be wanting adept 1s, they will have adept 3 at least.</P> <P>debt isnt a problem as most raiders are at cap anyway. and a pickup raid isnt the way to see raid content, it goes better when you in a raiding guild.</P>

[FlintAH]

<div><blockquote><hr>Guy De Alsace wrote:Wanted to know what it was about and a shout went up asking for members for Labs trash mobs. Well I dont raid, my toon is a 62 mystic with a few adept III's but mostly adept 1's with no fabled items at all. <font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000">62 will you get you one shotted by virtually all aes, even the weak ones.</font> The phrase "lamb to the slaughter" came to mind. I died upwards of 10 times. My equipment was gone and I died a few times after that. They were all one-shots. We got one piece of mage relic and no other loot of any kind at all. <font color="#ff0000">If people know the encounter and are prepared and it isnt a mob that has death touch(or the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] invalidates etc..., one shots are rare.</font> I came out with 2.2% debt, about 1% xp gained, zero loot and 8g in repairs (no fabled - yay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). I've come to the conclusion that raiders are virtual masochists. In the same time doing SoS I could have got 20% xp, tons of loot and no deaths. <font color="#ff0000">It costs me 8g a death in 75% fabled.  And trash runs are pretty much a waste of time anywhere except deathtoll, and when you finally get there, there is no point in it.</font> Alright I was way too low really at 62 but they were one-shotting all ppl in the raid apart from the tank, even the lvl 70's. Actually they one-shotted the tank on pull about 6 times as well but hey...<font color="#ff0000">The healers didnt know what to do there then.  (62 may be too low to effectively heal there anyways, nothing against you.)  No mob in labs shot one shot anyone unless they are doing something wrong, or someone else in the raid is doing something wrong, even on the most [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] pull.</font> The thing that amazed me was the fact there were no chests at all - not even boring wood ones with adepts in. We got one mage relic drop and that was it. Even the heroic instance zones have a thousand percent more loot than was available in here...as a nonraider the loot in here was worse than solo loot. At least you have a 100% chance of corpse loot as a solo! In here you have a low chance of even winning any corpse loot let alone the nonexistent chest drops. <div></div><font color="#ff0000">See above, labs trash runs are a waste of time.  The worthwhile loot comes from the named encounters.</font><hr></blockquote></div>

[Guy De Alsace]

Well it was worth doing for the experience (not xp in game obviously). Just seemed these 'ttrash mobs' were way ott even for the supposed weaker mobs. The tank was usually in the red on pull every time, sometimes with one hit. Occasionally they seemed to do no damage at all, others they one-shotted the tank then wiped the raid in about 1 second with ease. I was left scratching my head as to what to do to be honest. My measly master II ward was totally worthless as it barely warded against a fraction of one hit and my adept III heal wasnt much better. Feeling like a fifth wheel isnt much fun tbh. Maybe i'll try again at 70 but at 62 its really too low to be any fun or any use raiding in tier 7. Recommend people try it at least once but be prepared for debt and nothing to show for it in game terms unless you are extremely lucky. <div></div>

[FlintAH]

<div><blockquote><hr>Guy De Alsace wrote:Well it was worth doing for the experience (not xp in game obviously). Just seemed these 'ttrash mobs' were way ott even for the supposed weaker mobs. The tank was usually in the red on pull every time, sometimes with one hit. Occasionally they seemed to do no damage at all, others they one-shotted the tank then wiped the raid in about 1 second with ease. I was left scratching my head as to what to do to be honest.<font color="#ff0000">If he was getting that hard he was getting debuffed and no one was curing it.</font> My measly master II ward was totally worthless as it barely warded against a fraction of one hit and my adept III heal wasnt much better. Feeling like a fifth wheel isnt much fun tbh. Maybe i'll try again at 70 but at 62 its really too low to be any fun or any use raiding in tier 7. Recommend people try it at least once but be prepared for debt and nothing to show for it in game terms unless you are extremely lucky. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Dont ignore the cures and the mobs dont hit enough to even need to heal him hardly.  Of all the mobs in game, labs trash are the easiest when it comes to raiding.  Except for maybe the DT droags that I can solo.</div>

[Canel]

<DIV>Well-for one thing (that has been stated before)--LABS IS NOT DESIGNED TO BE FOR ANYONE UNDER 65 <STRONG><EM><U>MINIMUM</U></EM></STRONG>--or rather-anyone that is not raidequiped spellwise or equipmentwise. I understand that many under 65s do labs alot--but let's face it-one, they're one of the very few under 65-2, the tank is lv 70, moderatly to ok raid-equiped-and hope to god that he knows how to play his class--3, many of the ppl under 65 have adept 3s on them to masters. I just don't get why so many people want these relic items so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] much that they just skip the hwole--well if HoF isint even 67+ designed (At least when it first came out)--[Removed for Content] would labs be anything less?</DIV>

[Timaarit]

Well, this is precisely why anyone who is really serious about raiding t7 will take only lvl 70's along. Especially melee classes will die with one or 2 hits if they are 69 or lower and healers will get killed at 67 or lower. Yes, most AE's can be avoided by staying at max range at all times. But doing this requires knowledge of the zone or a very good raidleader. Last time we cleared labs I played with my lvl 70 templar I didn't die once. I think we experieced something like 5 or 6 deaths in all. So you need 8 more levels before you can get serious about raiding t7. As a mystic, you will be very much wanted in those. <div></div>

[stgninja]

Never join a pick up raid :smileyhappy:  A good practice to get into is buying rosewood repair kits before you head out to the raid. 

[MexStrat]

First of all,  <u><b>CONGRATULATIONS</b></u>   I really mean that.  You attempted something.  You went well beyond your capabilities(and i mean that as no insult,  since you obviously know 62 may have been to low)   You tried, and should be commended.I trully hope, you were not totally dissappointed and turned off by the raiding experience.  I ask you to try again, in 3-5 more levels.  The experience may be different.One thing you did discover is that raiding is not neccassarily easy.  (even if the high end raiders continue to ask for harder content)   Raiding is something that takes practice, and lots of it.   Give it another shot when you are 65, then again when you are 67,  then once more when you have capped out at 70.  If joining a raiding guild doesn't feel like the right path for you, try to find people that do the pick up raids regularly.    after each attempt reply to this thread,  I would really like to know how you feel about raiding, the more you do it.  The thrill of winning your first piece of fable equipment.  The first time you walk out of the instance with your armor still on.Don't let people discourage you from trying.   Raiding can be fun(especially when you are experiencing it for the first time).    To comment on some of your observations.  you are very correct.  People that raid on a consistant basis, do not do so with expectation of getting something they want.  they do it with hope that will get something they need.   After you do a paricular zone enough, the needs get filled and the wants take over, but that only occurs after many clearings of an instance and Many plat in repair bills(and i do not use the word Plat lightly).   And yes there are far safer and quicker ways to level, make coin and get loot.   but i assure you those are not nearly as satisfiing.<div></div>

[Chaostik]

I believe I was on that exact same raid with you ... I remember there being a 62 mystic and everything you described fitted the events.  It was on Runnyeye, right?This was my first tier 7 raid too, though I have raided lower levels many times before.  What I would say is this:<ul><li>There was seriously poor communication between the two people who were main tanks (one guardian, one berserker).  It was crazy the way sometimes the berserker just pulled away even though he was not in the MT group and was wearing a 2 hander!</li><li>Most people seemed to want the guardian to main tank, but it seemed the berserker was not at all keen on giving up the role.</li><li>Regularly the MT seemed to have uber lag problems because after the first droag of 2 would die it would be a full 20 seconds before the next one who was beating him to a pulp was targeted so that we could unleash.</li><li>The other thing to remember is that we were taking on x4 epics with only 2 and a half groups.  In light of that we did pretty well imho, but I would not go again without the correct number of groups.</li></ul>Don't give up on it, but just be more picky about what raids you go on ... if they want to start and you don't feel the setup will work, then just volunteer to leave ... I know I will in future!<div></div>

[Sanju]

I'd say that you still haven't raided. You joined a pickup relic farming group, but that's not a raid. No one raids with the intention of failing -- which is what relic farmers do. A true raid will at least attempt the named mobs ... that's kind of the point of raiding -- killing big bad named mobs for their loot -- not clearing trash mobs day after day.You also joined a really, really bad relic farming group from your description. If that's a daily relic farming group, I really don't know how they could do that night after night with as many deaths as you describe. They should know that if they're dying that often on trash mobs, well relic's NOT going to help them because they just suck at raiding. Those trash mobs can be killed with 1-2 groups in T6 gear.There was no loot because you didn't kill anything but trash. Kill the names for loot.If you really want to experience a true raid, try to join the local uberguild on your server on a T5/T6 raid or two (Court of Al'Afaz, Gates of Ahket Aken, etc.). In addition to being more level-appropriate for you, many of the better guilds will still do these ocassionally, and are more apt to let others outside of the guild join them. Most of them will either have alts that run through those, or will even run through on their mains when they're bored (which is likely often). Doing so will give you a better idea why people raid. We've taken people through T5 and T6 raids many times on our alts and tend to get the same responce ("OMG that was fast!") each time.If you're on Nektulos, ask some Dissolution (or many have alts in Leet Sauce) people when they're doing T5/T6 raids (usually sometime around Thursday-Sunday, depending on what's open or due) and I'm sure you'd be able to join us if you like. Healers alts can be tough to find at times. We could show you a much better reason why people raid than a pickup relic farming group.<div></div>

[Bremer]

You could also also go alone in the SoS with lvl 55 and afterwards complain how difficult the trash mobs were and you got no loot and that group players must be masochists.

[Urduxanga]

<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I was in that particular raid with my warlock alt. Lab trash raids are like that. 1st of all it was a late-night pickup raid with 50% under lvl 70s. Also neither of the tanks was experienced and we still managed to kill almost all the mobs. 1 relic is about normal for that raid especially since we didn't go past the 2nd named to the Quellithulians.Was good experience for most of the people in there as for most it was the 1st time in Labs. We did wipe several times due to unlucky pulls, inexperience and a too eager a berserker but that is the only way to learn.Barrage one shots most non tanks in raids, regardless of level and the AoEs for sure one shot those for who the mobs are orange.Raiding doesn't give you adventure exp, only aa-experience and player experience. 2.2% debt is nothing.I was the lucky git to get the relic. Next time it will be someone else.Raiding is all about coordination and focus and that you really cannot expect from a pickup raid <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[zormik]

<P>I advise you to join a guild that raids.  Wether you join a casual raiding guild or a hardcore raiding guild is up to you.</P> <P>Raiding with pickups is always a pain.  You have too many ego's and too less people who actually know how to raid. The best way to learn to raid is to join a guild that raids.  You will get the explanations and everything.</P> <P>Raiding is a teameffort and you need very good communications for that.  I'm MT most of the time for my guild and what's important is that you communicate with the rest of the raid, espescially when you have a guild that does not raid often.</P> <P>Now my guild raids 3 times a week and we don't need much communication anymore.  I just have some macro's that tell them when i'm pulling.  All the rest is automatism.  People know what to do and know how i will do things most of the time.  This is very important for a raid and that's what you lack at pickup raids.  Healers don't prebuff well, don't cure fast enough, are not paying attention, the tank doesn't announce pulls, the ma targets the wrong mobs, ...</P> <P>I know one thing.  If tanks get oneshotted from labstrash then there is a HUGE problem.  The last time i got killed by that labtrash they do for relicruns is a very long time ago (and i'm not in a hardcore raiding guild).</P>

[MeridianR]

The best way to experience some raids (though at your level T7 raids, aren't the best thing...and T6 would be better), is to join up with the local raiding alliance on your server.  Seriously I don't understand why more and more guilds try to form now to be raiding guilds.....newer guilds should just form or join already made alliances on there server.You can't base raiding on Trash relic runs, because as stated above, they are all about just killing trash as fast as they can to try to get relic drops....and with 12-24 people in the raid, it's gonna be near impossible to get any sort of gear for months.Join a raiding alliance, kill the named....and especially in labs I bet you would get (when you are a higher level of course) more gear in 2-3 runs, then you would in daily relic runs over the same period.<div></div>

[valkyrja]

Sounds like you were a tad too low, and in a group that didn't work well together.  I would like to add 2 things.1) regardless of what people say, there is loot to be had from trash mobs.  I was in there yesterday, and we cleared the zone up to the mob before the big basilisk.  We had 8 legendary, 4 fabled and 1 relic.  Yes, that was a really good day for drops, but much of the legendary is actually rather nice for those beginning to raid.2) Keep at it.  Consider reading some basic raiding guides.  Also, research if your server has any groups that run regular raids and invite others.<div></div>

[Gaellen]

1) You were up against mobs that are 10 levels higher than you.  Would you solo a mob 10 levels higher than you?  Group against a heroic 10 levels higher?  Do an instance 10 levels higher?  Raiding is no different.  With a 10 (or more level) advantage the AE's <i>should</i> kill you outright, it's the way the game works.  At level 70, even in really bad gear, that won't happen. 2) If your MT was in the red in one hit, he's either too low level or he was being hit with a trauma effect that must be cured.  His healers need to take care of that as soon as it occurs.  Spank the healers, and spank the MT for not telling them what happened.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 3) 2 groups is pretty low for Labs, especially for beginners.  Maybe advertize, and get a few more people to come along? 4) Kill named.  That's where the good loot is.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Malhabbock]

Sounds like you had a bit of bad luck, honestly.The main thing, is that did you have fun -- certainly not the dying part, but the overall concept? Did it appeal to you?If it's something you think you would like to continue doing, know that it gets better. The more experience the people have raiding and the better geared (this means spells too) the better it goes. The guild I'm in has done 1 group trash runs for people still lacking a few relic pieces.

[Guy De Alsace]

Well I was getting really frustrated at being unable to effectively do anything but after like death number 5 it started to be funny. By the end of it I was laughing too hard to do a great deal. <span>:smileywink:</span> Yeah it was hilarious how the tank in the 2nd grp kept trying to pull...I suppose looking back its a wonder we actually managed to kill anything <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Gonna work up some levels a bit and have another go. Since I still dont have any fabled even a full repair is only about 8g anyway. Must get some resist stuff as well. Want to get a screenshot of that dragon for a desktop <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Faheuc]

Good luck!

[greenmantle]

<P>Take the chance of getting an idiot in a pick up group, multiply by 4.</P> <P>Take a group of people that have never seen the zone , never worked together and if they are trash farming probably are not the best equipped. </P> <P> Chances are you will die often and quickly. </P> <P>Take 4 groups of guildies , a fabled tank, good healers.  Take people that raid 3 - 4 times a week. </P> <P>Take a raid leader that knows the zones, mobs and communicates well. </P> <P>Chances are you will have a blast , not die, still get no loot ( as Murphy randomizes something for every class but yours ) but you will have fun and  try it again.  </P>