Nizara lockout timer increased???

[Entilzhaa]

Why was the lockout timer on nizara increased to 3 days 20 hours?  This is the only fun instance left in the game and we can't even do it twice a week now.  Great call devs. <div></div>

[Gertack_v2]

4 day lockouts are a pain in general.  You can't keep them at the same day on your schedule from week to week unless you only do them once.<div></div>

[onimarox]

roost and crab were also increased

[Laiina]

I don't know exactly what the new lockouts were supposed to accomplish, but so far the only real effect I see is that pickup raids have dropped to zero.

[Pins]

<DIV>The point of the lockouts was to make every similiar zone have the same rules as every other similar zone, that way every zone's lockout is balanced.  It's part of a global setup to make everything the same.  And nizara is a small raid zone, as it's technically a x2 raid zone with only access for 1 group.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Pinski on <span class=date_text>08-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:27 AM</span>

[theriatis]

<DIV>Yo,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now we have a buggy zone (mobs aggro through floors/ceiling/wands),</DIV> <DIV>with crappy loot (talking about a Adept1 from a named) and, new featured,</DIV> <DIV>a lockout timer of 4 days...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Way to go...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And no, this is not a raid zone... if i can only enter it in a group, then its</DIV> <DIV>not a raid zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards, theriatis.</DIV>

[Gertack_v2]

Other downsides:- Can't "shop" Xux'laio's for an instance with sub-nameds.(Who's #%^# idea was it to have a random number of nameds anyway? We don't zone into Labs one day and find the Corsolander missing.)- Can't get back into Chel'drak more than once every 12 hours when attempting it.- Crab will never be able to have a fixed schedule because it has to shift one day later in the schedule constantly.- Ditto the above for Nizara groups.<div></div>- T5 raids have laugable lockout timers.  At least we're not in T5 anymore.- Still no consistency because some lockouts are 3 days 15 hours (T5 raids) instead of 3 days 20 hours (Nizara and Crab) or 6 days (Darathar and Crypt of Vox) or 12 hours (Gobblerocks' Hideout) or 1 day 12 hours (Maiden's Gulch Rescue of the Sage) or 3 days (Shin Trials)- Likewise for failure lockouts as Darathar and Crypt of Vox have none, and T5 raids MotM/Echoes of Time have 12 hour failures instead of 8, and Monk Trials have no failure timer either.With so many instances in the game, there will always be zones that cannot be lumped into the wide brush of "consistent" lockouts.

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> theriatis wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yo,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now we have a buggy zone (mobs aggro through floors/ceiling/wands),</DIV> <DIV>with <FONT color=#ffffcc><STRONG>crappy loot (talking about a Adept1 from a named)</STRONG> </FONT>and, new featured,</DIV> <DIV>a lockout timer of 4 days...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Way to go...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And no, this is not a raid zone... if i can only enter it in a group, then its</DIV> <DIV>not a raid zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards, theriatis.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#33ccff>First of all, Nizara has come of the most amazing loot there is. Maybe you got a little unlucky on your run, but I know many people who farm this zone for loot because it is so good. You are right about the buggy part, I really wish they could get this stuff fixed. It's a hard enough zone without having to also die to bugged mobs.</FONT> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#33ccff>Second, I have to agree that this is NOT a raid zone. So why it is being coded as one is beyond me. They changed all of the lockout timers for zones to make them more consistent (I pasted it below in case anyone missed the patch notes) but coding a group instance as a raid zone, no matter the difficulty or quality of loot, is a horrible idea. Defeats the purpose of consistency...</FONT></P></DIV> <P>- Zone reuse timers are being modified to have greater consistency. Reuse timers will now follow these guidelines:</P> <P>  * Small solo zone: No fail timer | 4 hour success timer</P> <P>  * Large solo zone: No fail timer | 8 hour success timer</P> <P>  * Group zone: No fail timer | 18 hour success timer</P> <P>  * Small raid zone: 8 hour fail timer | 3 day, 20 hour success timer</P> <P>  * Large raid zone: 12 hour fail timer | 5 day, 20 hour success timer</P>

[Pins]

<DIV>Because it is a raid zone, that only lets 1-group in.</DIV>

[Keldo]

Because despite wanting to normalize the lockouts for the sake of consistancy and making global changes to do so, some zones are more equal than others.<div></div>

[theriatis]

<P>@Terabethia</P> <P>Yes, you're right, the Loot (if you get it) there can be awesome. I love my pair of Gauntles with the "subtle gestures" Proc on it (Deaggro Proc, 10% for 900 iirc) and nice stats & resists too... the Nizara Magical Adept Enhancer is also well... We got very nice loot here on our first nizara run, but the last few times we entered Nizara we seldom got more than a wooden chest, even from nameds, thats the Problem.</P> <P>It's more annoying than running 2-3 hrs through the Halls of Fate with ONE Legendary Chest from all the Mobs.</P> <P>Nizara IS hard, so why do they include wooden chests & Adept 1 on the nameds ? Aren't they hard enough to justify at least a legendary chest ?</P> <P>It's not a zone who every one can enter an farm the Mobs for nice loot, the zone is hard, has its requirements on classes, takes a loooong time to finish (if you get to that point), i even think that there are classes which will never see Nizara and only get some of the loot because it's tradeable...</P> <P>So, here's my priority "to-fix" List on Nizara:</P> <P>1. Fix the Linkdeads. There are more than in any other Zone.</P> <P>2. Fix the Mobs aggroing through walls and ceilling.</P> <P>3. Fix the Loot-Tables for nameds. They are hard, so at least please a legendary chest.</P> <P>Regards, theriatis.</P>

[Lolthinae]

I'm just sad they've increased the lock-out timer. For me it's the only 1-group zone that is actually still fun doing, in spite of all the bugs, LDs, and the sometimes mindbuggling poor loot table. With a 4-days lock-out timer, who is gonna risk going in there with less than an optimal group that might turn out to be capable of killing 1 or 2 named, triggering the lock-out, but achieving little else? I'd love to run more people through that zone, but I guess that for now I'll have to stick with my "fixed" group and limit it to once a week......... /sigh

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lolthinae wrote:<BR> I'm just sad they've increased the lock-out timer. For me it's the only 1-group zone that is actually still fun doing, in spite of all the bugs, LDs, and the sometimes mindbuggling poor loot table. With a 4-days lock-out timer, who is gonna risk going in there with less than an optimal group that might turn out to be capable of killing 1 or 2 named, triggering the lock-out, but achieving little else? I'd love to run more people through that zone, but I guess that for now I'll have to stick with my "fixed" group and limit it to once a week......... /sigh<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think they want to limit the items that come out of that zone, and with the new structure an 18 hr lockout would be to little </P> <P>I'm not saying I agree with a 3day lockout but I think thats all they could do with the new structure for this zone.</P> <P> </P>

[FuRiouSQ]

Nek 3 is a raid zone (x2 mob inside same as nizara) but only 18 hour lockout, things that make you go hmm. <div></div>

[Silverpaws]

Nek 3 isnt a raid zone.<div></div>

[hoosierdaddy]

<P>That x2 in Nek is seriously overconned. He wasn't any more noticeably difficult that any other encounter in that zone, which isn't all that difficult to begin. Drop rates on really nice items also seem pretty low, a la Nek 2. I'm sure they're in there, but haven't seen too many linked in serverwide-channels.</P> <P>Did Nek 3 twice on day it was released and can say that, after being through it a few times, it shouldn't take longer than an hour or and hour and a half to complete, whereas you can easily spend the better part of a night in Nizara. I'm really ambivalent about Nizara anyway and couldn't care less as to its lockout. Tbh, I haven't been back since I got update for Rift. Ton of risk vs. fairly mediocre rewards imo.</P> <P>Come to think of it, can only remeber doing Nek 2 a couple times too. Maybe it's just me and the associations I still make with Nektropos castle being the inherently buggiest zone in the game in its past incarnations.</P> <P>-Kai</P>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR> <DIV>Because it is a raid zone, that only lets 1-group in.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#33ccff>What exactally makes this a raid zone? Just the fact that it's hard? Or the fact that there is x2 mobs within? I don't think that's enough to consider it a raid at all. If only 1 group can go in, then it's NOT a raid. A raid is 2 or more groups, period.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>When the AP was released, it was said that there would be 4 raids. 2 contested, 2 zones. So that's the bird and flower, and then the crab and turtle. So as it was not advertised as a raid zone, and there is nothing else other than opinions to claim it as such, I see no reason to code it's lockout to be consistant with raid zones.</FONT> </P>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Terabethia wrote:</P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>What exactally makes this a raid zone? Just the fact that it's hard? Or the fact that there is x2 mobs within? I don't think that's enough to consider it a raid at all. If only 1 group can go in, then it's NOT a raid. A raid is 2 or more groups, period.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>When the AP was released, it was said that there would be 4 raids. 2 contested, 2 zones. So that's the bird and flower, and then the crab and turtle. So as it was not advertised as a raid zone, and there is nothing else other than opinions to claim it as such, I see no reason to code it's lockout to be consistant with raid zones.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Because every single encounter inside is an x2 encounter.  Even if you can only get an x1 into it, it's technically a raid zone, even if.  Not to mention the loot in there is near-raid quality.<BR>

[FuRiouSQ]

<blockquote><hr>hoosierdaddy wrote:<div></div> <p>That x2 in Nek is seriously overconned. He wasn't any more noticeably difficult that any other encounter in that zone, which isn't all that difficult to begin. Drop rates on really nice items also seem pretty low, a la Nek 2. I'm sure they're in there, but haven't seen too many linked in serverwide-channels.</p> <p>Did Nek 3 twice on day it was released and can say that, after being through it a few times, it shouldn't take longer than an hour or and hour and a half to complete, whereas you can easily spend the better part of a night in Nizara. I'm really ambivalent about Nizara anyway and couldn't care less as to its lockout. Tbh, I haven't been back since I got update for Rift. Ton of risk vs. fairly mediocre rewards imo.</p> <p>Come to think of it, can only remeber doing Nek 2 a couple times too. Maybe it's just me and the associations I still make with Nektropos castle being the inherently buggiest zone in the game in its past incarnations.</p> <p>-Kai</p><hr></blockquote>Your saying the X2 or even the X4 in Nizara is hard? niether of these 2 epics in both solo group zones are hard but yet there epic so Nek 3 should be considered a raid zone since it has the same [Removed for Content] x2 as Nizara does, or make both zones the normal 18 hour solo group zone lockout even now they have nurfed Nizara so non raiders can clear it /wink.. <div></div>

[Devizi]

I think its funny that everyone is crying over the 5 day lockout.  Some of the best loot in the game(better then raid items) and you used to be able to farm it every what? 3 days?  This change puts a big <span>:smileyhappy:</span> on my face. <div></div>

[Comalv]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<div></div> <div>The point of the lockouts was to make every similiar zone have the same rules as every other similar zone, that way every zone's lockout is balanced.  It's part of a global setup to make everything the same.  And nizara is a small raid zone, as it's technically a x2 raid zone with only access for 1 group.</div><p>Message Edited by Pinski on <span class="date_text">08-10-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:27 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote> Mhm no because Devs put it like this Group Zones (NOT Heroic Zones): fail none ~ success 18h Small Raid Zones (NOT x2 Zones): fail 5h ~ success 3days 20h Large Raid Zones (NOT x4 Zones): fail 12h ~ success 5days 20h Nizara is clearly a group Zone so NEEDS its timer at 18h, as u can't "raid" anything in it, no bull****, Crab is not a group zone so it got his timer increased (correctly) to 3days 20h, Roost can maybe seen as a "larger" zone than crab (even if it's arguable how Roost can be considered a Large zone <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />), so it's got his timer set at 5days 20h, because the difference is not Heroic-x2-x4 but Group-Small Raid-Large Raid. So according to DEV patch notes (as someone of u in another thread liked a lot to point out that if DEVs state a thing they can't do anything to contraddict themselves), Nizara needs to have a 18h success timer like every other groupzones. full stop. In addition the x2/x4 in Nizara is a sissy compared to the final mob or to some 6x heroics encounters in there so please don't use it as an excuse for the lockout timer, it's probably killable without a mana regen. And if you have to use the x2 excuse bear in mind that Nektropos Castle: Tribulation has a x2 mob (with chance for it to be a named) aswell, so that zone should be increased to 3days 20h lockout too? Ok the x2 may have less HPs than Nizara's one but they're both far far easier than most of the bosses of T7 Instances.... And finally, even if the lockout gets set to 18h (like it HAS to be), i really doubt anyone will farm it on a daily basis, as the bugs in it are really frustrating. PS: So and why do u argue that every encounter in the zone is x2? Because of the special attacks (aka Flame Claw) that make them boring (not difficult, boring), or because there can be 3x ^^^ and 3x ^^ in the same encounter? i don't get your definition of x2 encounter. Also bear in mind that loot doesn't matter as far as a zone "type is concerned"...ok Sepulcher has the best plate BP ingame, so put 3 days 20h lockout to it? I don't think so. Den has 2 awesome ring (even-matched if not superior to most of the raid rings), so put 3days 20h lockout on it? I don't think so <div></div><p>Message Edited by Comalv on <span class=date_text>08-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:42 AM</span>

[Riversideblues]

im going to put my money on 1day being to short, 5 being too long, but the latter being the better to avoid farming.<div></div>

[Triste-Lune]

 If this zone is now to be a 3d20h lockout, it MUST have a loot table with at least legendary and better in it. 6 runs done in here not even a master spell from anything  only a legendary drop from final named and the rest of the zone is only junk wood, that really insane, get to work and increase drop rate. <div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Triste-Lune wrote:<BR> If this zone is now to be a 3d20h lockout, it MUST have a loot table with at least legendary and better in it. 6 runs done in here not even a master spell from anything  only a legendary drop from final named and the rest of the zone is only junk wood, that really insane, get to work and increase drop rate.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think with a longer lockout the drop rates would need to be adjusted, and my money is on them(devs) not changing a thing.

[theriatis]

<DIV>Hi,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>could someone with the bugged adjusted timers please fix the Loot tables ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We ran last night through Nizara and got 2 Legendary Chests, no Master Chests</DIV> <DIV>and the Rest was Wood. Even from the Boss (she was helluva chick) we got a</DIV> <DIV>wooden Chest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So 5 hours for one nice Item and the rest where "Advanced xxx" or "Adept 1s"</DIV> <DIV>or the No-Loot Pages for books.... way to go for a "Deathtoll for Groups" Zone....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry, i even didn't bother running through HoF again because of all the Wood</DIV> <DIV>dropping, but with Nizara, which is far more difficult, i'm just giving up.</DIV> <DIV>The Nameds should at least drop a legendary chest, i get sick if i beat that hard </DIV> <DIV>nameds again for an Adept 1.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards, theriatis.</DIV>