Please stop fixing/changing/bugging Veymm !

[theriatis]

<DIV>Hi,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sorry to say but i have it sick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have lost count how often Veymm was changed and how often we changed our strat to meet the Changes...</DIV> <DIV>We're not a High-End Raidguild, so we took whatever we could get (in terms of "easy tactics") to get it down...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Took us everytime some weeks to get the setup, get the place, get the people and when we had it, the</DIV> <DIV>encounter was changed and we had to start from scratch:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seperate them by pulling Alzid farther than Veymm,</DIV> <DIV>kill Alzid first and then Veymm,</DIV> <DIV>Amnesia on Alzid because now he resets,</DIV> <DIV>Amnesia on Veymm because Alzid refuses to die now,</DIV> <DIV>.... anybody wants do complete that list ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't care what the strat is (we want to tank both now) but PLEASE DON'T CHANGE IT ANYMORE !!</DIV> <DIV>Yesterday we had the right setup for one strat of the upper list, as we figured out that Veymm resets</DIV> <DIV>after a random amount of time (Kudos for that Dev... i cannot spell the Curses threw after him</DIV> <DIV>as we noticed for the first time that he resets, after he resetted while down to 2 %... we laughed our A**** off).</DIV> <DIV>Then we started trying to tank them both (our tank is capable to do that), but for that, we had to many</DIV> <DIV>Shamans and to few templars/Inquis...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So please, please, please, do not change ne Mob AGAIN, whatever you do don't change it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't want to go down to that Lord again, now with a "Both-Tanking" Strat and figuring out that this</DIV> <DIV>infernal mob has changed AGAIN....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the ones telling me that "This mob was never intended to separate" or have any other BS to say,</DIV> <DIV>then i tell you, they should have made it right from the beginning or just fix it once and then leave it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards, theriatis.</DIV>

[R]

<DIV>I don't think the Vyemm encounter has been changed for a while now... Right around when they made them both auto-lock was the most recent change I can remember, but that was like.. a month ago?</DIV>

[HerzenFunia]

<DIV>You can tank both, you can tank only Vyemm - whats the problem?</DIV>

[Kreat]

Should be an easy enough encounter with a coercer ...

[SinIsLaw]

Vyemn resetting ?!?! Is it possible that peeps kept reviving,  in the beginning when we  messed about with strats  we did see it a few times that after a mem whipe Vyemm aggroed someone else, killed that person, who choose to rev - somehow Vyemm "re-aggroed" that persons - but since he was at the zone in, he was considered outta range and Vyemm reset !!!  - Personally I really like it, since it prevents Zerging that encounter - But as some OP said, Vyemm hasn't been changed for a while, to my knowledge! <div></div>

[theriatis]

<DIV>Hi,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@saphka</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Change that Veymm resets is new. We killed it last week with the usual strat (Coercer-Amnesia) and</DIV> <DIV>as we used that this week Veymm was resetting in Fight at random intervalls. After the third try we</DIV> <DIV>gave up and planed a new strat.... for next week... in the hope that Veymm is not changed and not bugged....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@HerzenFunia</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Problem is that this Mob was changed and changed over and i don't care what strat i have</DIV> <DIV>to use but for chrissake lets keep that mob as it is !!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@Kreated</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-> Veymm resets if you use Amnesia (=Coercer) on Alzid.</DIV> <DIV>We already have an Illusionist for Mana and an Assasin&Dirge for Hate,</DIV> <DIV>and we used the Amnesia strat for some days (read:Weeks) now....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@SinIsLaw</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nope, we especially had an eye on that and nobody released, they were all rezzed (easy to see in Raidwindow).</DIV> <DIV>Veymm was changed a week ago, it was talked a lot about it...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another posibility is that the Encounter is just bugged and he resets randomly (i wouldn't count this out).</DIV> <DIV>A Hint: Veymm doesn't reset if you fight both together, so the posibility is there that this is intended.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if this is the case than please fix it, if the powers that be wanted that Veymm is resetting if he </DIV> <DIV>gets seperated than ok, i can work with it, but don't change it again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>An yeah, we can tank both, or use 2 tanking groups but that was not the point...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards, theriatis.</DIV>

[Bremer]

Yesterday we fought Vyemm, he was half dead, suddenly he flies back, is unattackable and Alzid attacks (although we sent him back at the beginning of the fight). Of course we couldn't kill him because he kept healing himself. The scripts of these mobs are really strange.

[AlexT]

<P>it always has been intended to fight both at once <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>They should make them one encounter and be done with it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  if he now resets if you split them then i think its a good thing.</P>

[CrazedMut]

He resets if people revive and run back down as he aggros onto them and because they are too far away it breaks him.<div></div>

[Bremer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AlexT schrieb:<BR> <P>it always has been intended to fight both at once <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>They should make them one encounter and be done with it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  if he now resets if you split them then i think its a good thing.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They are two seperated encounters, so they are supposed to be fought seperately, but of course you can fight them both together like you can fight Corsoleander and the Doomsworn guy together if you like.

[AlexT]

<DIV>When you attack one the other comes and prime has a buff that says he won't die when his master is in trouble or somthing like that.... why do you think SOE kept on changing it so it was harder and harder to split em ? maybe because you arn't supposed to split em <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Like i said just make em one encounter and be done with it.</DIV>

[Ishbu]

Him reseting is a result of something your doing. Dont blame the developers for your raids foolishness. If you fight the encounter(s) properly in one of the several ways that can be achieved there are no problems.Perhaps you need to ask yourself what are you doing that is clearly not an intended feature of this encounter?

[Bremer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AlexT schrieb:<BR> <DIV>When you attack one the other comes and prime has a buff that says he won't die when his master is in trouble or somthing like that.... why do you think SOE kept on changing it so it was harder and harder to split em ? maybe because you arn't supposed to split em <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Like i said just make em one encounter and be done with it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, they are social <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If you they were supposed to be fought together they were one encounter, they aren't, so they are not supposed.

[ZababEW]

<DIV>the only thing i blame to this encounter is the fact he warp over the ceiling or 2 floor above when it ae scream of chaos. And that a pain to get him back down to the raid, yes u can make him back down but sometime he doesnt always work.</DIV>

[AlexT]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bremer wrote:<BR> <BR>Well, they are social <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If you they were supposed to be fought together they were one encounter, they aren't, so they are not supposed.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You are of course entitled to your own view but imo they where always meant to be fought together and we always have and always will kill em both at once , besides it makes an easy counter slightly harder <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

[Dasein]

<P></P> <HR> Him reseting is a result of something your doing. Dont blame the developers for your raids foolishness. If you fight the encounter(s) properly in one of the several ways that can be achieved there are no problems.<BR><BR>Perhaps you need to ask yourself what are you doing that is clearly not an intended feature of this encounter? <HR> So the devs bear no responsbility for a poorly designed encounter? Vyemm/Alzid Prime is really badly set up, with so many possible points for the encounter to break that the challenge is more in getting a good pull despite the many problems with encounters breaking and not with the fight itself.

[Ddrak]

Alzid came running in last week for us when our coercer ran back down from zone in.  We got the "this encounter is no longer giving rewards" message from Vyemm at that point (he's normally dead by the time someone can run back down from ZI anyway), but he still dropped a chest for us.  Was... entertaining having Alzid join the party but we adjusted and just killed them both.Perhaps if you're tanking Vyemm outside his room he properly resets or something?  We tank him at the top of the stairs down to the 2nd eye.Dd<div></div>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Ddrak wrote:Alzid came running in last week for us when our coercer ran back down from zone in.  We got the "this encounter is no longer giving rewards" message from Vyemm at that point (he's normally dead by the time someone can run back down from ZI anyway), but he still dropped a chest for us.  Was... entertaining having Alzid join the party but we adjusted and just killed them both.Perhaps if you're tanking Vyemm outside his room he properly resets or something?  We tank him at the top of the stairs down to the 2nd eye.Dd<div></div><hr></blockquote>Why not just rez the Coercer instead of having him hit revive?

[Ishbu]

<blockquote><hr>Caswydian wrote:<P></P><HR>Him reseting is a result of something your doing. Dont blame the developers for your raids foolishness. If you fight the encounter(s) properly in one of the several ways that can be achieved there are no problems.<BR><BR>Perhaps you need to ask yourself what are you doing that is clearly not an intended feature of this encounter?<HR>So the devs bear no responsbility for a poorly designed encounter? Vyemm/Alzid Prime is really badly set up, with so many possible points for the encounter to break that the challenge is more in getting a good pull despite the many problems with encounters breaking and not with the fight itself.<hr></blockquote>Because if they did the easy fix and linked vyemm and alzid 50000 people would cry out and whine so they are stuck.

[Ddrak]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:Why not just rez the Coercer instead of having him hit revive?<hr></blockquote>He's not worth the mana.  I just don't rez int casters as a matter of principle!Dd</div>

[Riversideblues]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ddrak wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:Why not just rez the Coercer instead of having him hit revive?<hr></blockquote>He's not worth the mana.  I just don't rez int casters as a matter of principle!Dd</div><hr></blockquote>what about casters who make your raid not die as much?</div>

[Krooner]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AlexT wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bremer wrote:<BR> <BR>Well, they are social <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If you they were supposed to be fought together they were one encounter, they aren't, so they are not supposed.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You are of course entitled to your own view but imo they where always meant to be fought together and we always have and always will kill em both at once , besides it makes an easy counter slightly harder <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Another way of looking at it is.  Because they are not "joined" into one encounter and only move together because of social agro the designer had in mind for you to be able to pull them with a certain set of skills.  i.e. Amnesia.  If you dont have those tools then you may have to fight them together.</P> <P>On a side note.  With a little practiced team work you dont need a coercer to seperate them.  It can be done, how you choose to engage this encounter is up to you.</P> <P>As far as Vymm resetting.  If your trying to pull him down the hall where Corsinlander is theres a good chance hes going to reset on you.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <span class=date_text>08-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 AM</span>

[yoob]

<P>The cooridor that leads to the main chamber where vems lives has a stairwell with a door on top. About half way up that stairwell is the break point. After the scream of chaos (mem wipe) he will randomly assign agro on someone in the raid. If that person is standing behind that break point regardless of the reason he will break and reset. </P> <P>-best regards</P>

[Henladar Bloodheart ~]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AlexT wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bremer wrote:<BR> <BR>Well, they are social <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If you they were supposed to be fought together they were one encounter, they aren't, so they are not supposed.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You are of course entitled to your own view but imo they where always meant to be fought together and we always have and always will kill em both at once , besides it makes an easy counter slightly harder <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If they were meant to be fought together i think sony would of fixed the amnesia start and hell maybe even put them in the same encounter? You can fight em together.. you can fight em seperatly.. there is no "its supossed to be fought this way" in this certain case.<p>Message Edited by Henladar Bloodheart ~ on <span class=date_text>08-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:55 AM</span>

[Henladar Bloodheart ~]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bremer wrote:<BR> Yesterday we fought Vyemm, he was half dead, suddenly he flies back, is unattackable and Alzid attacks (although we sent him back at the beginning of the fight). Of course we couldn't kill him because he kept healing himself. The scripts of these mobs are really strange.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Killed him last night at 10 EST with this never happening... of course we rez people instead of making them try and run back.. i can imagine that would screw it up.

[USAFJeeper]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Riversideblues wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ddrak wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR>Why not just rez the Coercer instead of having him hit revive?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>He's not worth the mana.  I just don't rez int casters as a matter of principle!<BR><BR>Dd<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>what about casters who make your raid not die as much?<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I will take people who dont catch a joke for $100 Alex!

[Dasein]

<DIV> <HR> Because if they did the easy fix and linked vyemm and alzid 50000 people would cry out and whine so they are stuck. <HR> </DIV>Not if they properly balanced the encounter. That might mean toning down Vyemm a little bit, but it would make it a better encounter overall.

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Caswydian wrote:<DIV> <HR> Because if they did the easy fix and linked vyemm and alzid 50000 people would cry out and whine so they are stuck. <HR> </DIV>Not if they properly balanced the encounter. That might mean toning down Vyemm a little bit, but it would make it a better encounter overall.<hr></blockquote> But they already nerfed the hell out of Alzid such that he's so weak, that you could probably tank him with 1 defiler healing. Thus, why nerf Vyemm if they combine it, all they really need to do is, wait the way they have it setup is fine, and works if you don't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] around and try to exploit.

[Ishbu]

<blockquote><hr>Caswydian wrote:<DIV><HR>Because if they did the easy fix and linked vyemm and alzid 50000 people would cry out and whine so they are stuck. <HR></DIV>Not if they properly balanced the encounter. That might mean toning down Vyemm a little bit, but it would make it a better encounter overall.<hr></blockquote>So now we are asking for a relatively easy encounter to be made even easier?

[Keldo]

our coercer has a happy rev box clicking finger, thats all =p<div></div>

[Dasein]

<HR> So now we are asking for a relatively easy encounter to be made even easier? <HR> If they make so that Alzid Prime and Vyemm are one encounter, then they should adjust the difficult of Vyemm accordingly to preserve the intended difficulty level. That you consider the encounter to be easy is irrelevent. Just about every encounter becomes relatively easy once you learn the right tactics.

[AlexT]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caswydian wrote:<BR> <HR> So now we are asking for a relatively easy encounter to be made even easier? <HR> If they make so that Alzid Prime and Vyemm are one encounter, then they should adjust the difficult of Vyemm accordingly to preserve the intended difficulty level. That you consider the encounter to be easy is irrelevent. Just about every encounter becomes relatively easy once you learn the right tactics.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If every encounter becomes relatively easy once you learn the tactic then why would you need to change the difficulty of vyemm if he where to be hypothetically linked with prime.  Just learn new tactic and hes as easy as he was when spliting.

[Ishbu]

He basically is paired with alzid prime. Tank one on one side, tank vyemm on the other. Kill vyemm, kill alzid. Hurrah.

[Dasein]

<P></P> <HR> If every encounter becomes relatively easy once you learn the tactic then why would you need to change the difficulty of vyemm if he where to be hypothetically linked with prime.  Just learn new tactic and hes as easy as he was when spliting. <HR> Because encounter difficulty needs to be geared to the zone. Labs is not supposed to be one of the harder zones in the game, it is an entry-level T7 raid zone, and as such, encounters should be of a certain difficulty level. If two encounters are merged into a single encounter, that encounter is now substantially harder, and needs to be toned down to fit with the intended difficulty level of the zone. <P>Stop looking at Labs from the perspective of an experienced raid guild. Look at it from the perspective of a more casual raiding alliance - you cannot count on having the perfect group setup, and your characters aren't all decked out in full fabled gear. How hard should Vyemm be for a raid force like that?</P>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caswydian wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> If every encounter becomes relatively easy once you learn the tactic then why would you need to change the difficulty of vyemm if he where to be hypothetically linked with prime.  Just learn new tactic and hes as easy as he was when spliting. <HR> Because encounter difficulty needs to be geared to the zone. Labs is not supposed to be one of the harder zones in the game, it is an entry-level T7 raid zone, and as such, encounters should be of a certain difficulty level. If two encounters are merged into a single encounter, that encounter is now substantially harder, and needs to be toned down to fit with the intended difficulty level of the zone. <P>Stop looking at Labs from the perspective of an experienced raid guild. Look at it from the perspective of a more casual raiding alliance - you cannot count on having the perfect group setup, and your characters aren't all decked out in full fabled gear. How hard should Vyemm be for a raid force like that?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>However, Vyemm is supposed to be harder than the rest of the stuff in the zone.  Thus, there needs to be some difficulty in the zone.  I mean look at T6, zones had easy mobs, then harder, then even harder.  Vyemm is the Black Queen of the instance.

[ChaosUndivided]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caswydian wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> If every encounter becomes relatively easy once you learn the tactic then why would you need to change the difficulty of vyemm if he where to be hypothetically linked with prime.  Just learn new tactic and hes as easy as he was when spliting. <HR> Because encounter difficulty needs to be geared to the zone. Labs is not supposed to be one of the harder zones in the game, it is an entry-level T7 raid zone, and as such, encounters should be of a certain difficulty level. If two encounters are merged into a single encounter, that encounter is now substantially harder, and needs to be toned down to fit with the intended difficulty level of the zone. <P>Stop looking at Labs from the perspective of an experienced raid guild. Look at it from the perspective of a more casual raiding alliance - you cannot count on having the perfect group setup, and your characters aren't all decked out in full fabled gear. How hard should Vyemm be for a raid force like that?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Vyemm should be incredibly Hard. He is one of the End Zone Bosses for Labs. He has and always will be too easy. Any zone that you can clear on the 1st attempt through is too easy. Casual or Not.

[Dasein]

<P>People always complain about lack of raid progression, Guess what - if everything is incredibly hard, there's no progression, and new guilds meet a dead end. Vyemm should be a challenge for  pickup raids, but doable, and should be fairly easy for experience raid guilds. </P> <P>Raiding is not the exclusive province of a handful of guilds on each server, it is something the general playing population should be able to raid, and raid difficulty needs to reflect that. If this alienates the hardcore minority, too bad. For the vast majority of players, Vyemm is plenty challenging. </P>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caswydian wrote:<BR> <P>People always complain about lack of raid progression, Guess what - if everything is incredibly hard, there's no progression, and new guilds meet a dead end. Vyemm should be a challenge for  pickup raids, but doable, and should be fairly easy for experience raid guilds. </P> <P>Raiding is not the exclusive province of a handful of guilds on each server, it is something the general playing population should be able to raid, and raid difficulty needs to reflect that. If this alienates the hardcore minority, too bad. For the vast majority of players, Vyemm is plenty challenging. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sorry, but Vyemm would be fairly easy for experienced raid guilds even if they connected Vyemm with Alzid, so, what would change?  Nothing.

[Dasein]

<P></P> <HR> Sorry, but Vyemm would be fairly easy for experienced raid guilds even if they connected Vyemm with Alzid, so, what would change?  Nothing. <HR> The experienced raid guilds are not the measure of difficulty. If they linked Alzid and Vyemm without changing Vyemm, it would be very difficult, if not impossible for your less experienced raiders trying to experience T7 raid content. <P>You need to forget about the hardcore raid guilds and focus on the rest of the population - the other 95% of each server for whom Vyemm in his current form is a challenge.</P>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caswydian wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> Sorry, but Vyemm would be fairly easy for experienced raid guilds even if they connected Vyemm with Alzid, so, what would change?  Nothing. <HR> The experienced raid guilds are not the measure of difficulty. If they linked Alzid and Vyemm without changing Vyemm, it would be very difficult, if not impossible for your less experienced raiders trying to experience T7 raid content. <P>You need to forget about the hardcore raid guilds and focus on the rest of the population - the other 95% of each server for whom Vyemm in his current form is a challenge.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>100% of the people who encounter Vyemm don't need to beat him 100% of the time.  Just because you can get to him, doesn't mean you should be able to kill him.

[ChaosUndivided]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caswydian wrote:<BR> <P>People always complain about lack of raid progression, Guess what - if everything is incredibly hard, there's no progression, and new guilds meet a dead end. Vyemm should be a challenge for  pickup raids, but doable, and should be fairly easy for experience raid guilds. </P> <P>Raiding is not the exclusive province of a handful of guilds on each server, it is something the general playing population should be able to raid, and raid difficulty needs to reflect that. If this alienates the hardcore minority, too bad. For the vast majority of players, Vyemm is plenty challenging. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Clearing a Zone 1st time in =| Progression. Progression should be within a zone as well.

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR> <BR><BR>Sorry, but Vyemm would be fairly easy for experienced raid guilds even if they connected Vyemm with Alzid, so, <EM>what would change</EM>?  Nothing.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You'd only get one master chest instead of two of course <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>And since Prime is the only one that drops Nemesis boots (as far as I know) you would have alot of angry assassins and rangers :smileytongue:</P> <P> </P>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crychtonn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR> <BR><BR>Sorry, but Vyemm would be fairly easy for experienced raid guilds even if they connected Vyemm with Alzid, so, <EM>what would change</EM>?  Nothing.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You'd only get one master chest instead of two of course <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>And since Prime is the only one that drops Nemesis boots (as far as I know) you would have alot of angry assassins and rangers :smileytongue:</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They can just add that loot table to the same chest then instead.

[Ishbu]

Perfect example of the mentality that is basically sucking the life out of things.  I made it to vyemm so I should get his loot!

[Laiina]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ishboozor wrote:<BR> Perfect example of the mentality that is basically sucking the life out of things.  I made it to vyemm so I should get his loot!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You cannot seem to add anything to any thread but snide and sarcastic comments. Why?

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Laiina wrote:<BR> <BR>You cannot seem to add anything to any thread but snide and sarcastic comments. Why?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because of the same reason as you.  His comment on this thread is exactly what the majority of people think about the game.  I made it here, thus I should be able to kill it!  Please, why don't you figure out that if they make this game any easier than it already is, there's no point in progressing because, there won't be any progression left in the game.

[Wabit]

<P>what progression???  </P> <P>HoS we cleared like our second time in there (not counting the NB), i want the prenerf warder back...  </P> <P>LoA was cleared on every like server the night it opened, with way overpowered loot (kinda like the current crab loot)...</P> <P>Gore got nerfed, Harla got nerfed...</P> <P>3 contested take a full raid (streching on hurri here)...  spires take 9 ppl tops, pantrilla/vraxsakin take 2 groups tops...  that covers the contested...</P> <P>so where should vyemm fit in the difficulty of mobs???</P> <OL> <LI>matron (bugged imo)</LI> <LI>cheldrake</LI> <LI>tarinax</LI> <LI>MO</LI> <LI>Princes</LI> <LI>Hurricanius</LI> <LI>venny</LI> <LI>vyemm</LI> <LI>villusade</LI> <LI>ghazi</LI> <LI>monoliths</LI> <LI>curor</LI> <LI>harla</LI> <LI>talendor</LI> <LI>gorenair</LI> <LI>pantrilla</LI> <LI>vraxsakin</LI> <LI>HoS mini named</LI> <LI>Labs mininamed</LI> <LI>LoA mininamed</LI> <LI>Roost</LI> <LI>Crab</LI> <LI>AoAx2</LI></OL> <P>thats the rough order in how i think things should go...  the mini named of zones should get harder the deeper you get in...  LoA has the right setup but the boss is too [Removed for Content]...  HoS bounces from the overlord being harder than the next 4 named, then the bloodbeast and warder being a decent fight, to venny being a complete joke...  Labs starts out well, but the second eyeball and doom trio should be swaped in thier spots in the zone, other than that its pretty well in progression...  if amnesia alzid prime, kill vyemm, then goto alzid i can tank him nekkid...  DT the fist 2 named need a boost in difficulty (the eyeballs are harder than they are), the goo dragon is at least interesting, curor is either hard or easy depending on the raid, tarinax even in his fixed state is too easy (hes orange)...</P> <P>T6:  PR was the same fight over and over (snoozefest)...  courts got it right, easy named to start, getting harder the deeper into the zone you went...  gates was close, but one named was out of place (adofo)...  PoS and DMP were great...  terror, the 2 contested dragons where easier than some of the boss mobs...  the contested dragons were harder than terror and terror harder than the tree, easier than some boss mobs but not as hard as DMP or PPR without a ring...</P> <P>T5:  SotL was pretty good for progression venny and varinak were the hardest mobs in the zone and it got harder coming back up than going down to the basement...  but until BAoW the many contested were harder than everything else...  the one day instances were nice, but they got old real quick...</P> <P>vyemm and alzid are seperate encounters, you could link them, keep them the same difficulty as they are now and there wouldn't be much of an issue...  each zone should have some progression threw it (LoA the least cause its small), there is none right now, DT we got to tarinax the first time in DT with wipeing only to the eyes once (love the zonein =/ ), and the goo dragon once (we weren't setup for it)...  labs we beat our heads on vyemm for a few weeks, LoA was first time clear, HoS we got stcuk at the warder/bloodbeast room first time in, cleared it the second...  in the earlier tiers we made our way threw the zone over than span of weeks to months (blackqueen was our bane)...</P>

[theriatis]

<DIV>Hi,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>no, nobody released. We had an eye on it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We did fight Veymm in the Room of Corsolander, in the Eye Room and in the Arena itself.</DIV> <DIV>He resets. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the Encounter weren't to be seperatable from the beginning, than they bloody hell should</DIV> <DIV>have made them one encounter from the start.</DIV> <DIV>We could have learned to put out a strat to beat them together from the beginning, not</DIV> <DIV>changing tactics every few weeks ! Thats the point of which i'm talking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know if Veymm should be harder or easier, the only thing i want is that he isn't</DIV> <DIV>changed again. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In Terms of Progression: We had a clearer progression in Courts of Al Afaz as in Lab.</DIV> <DIV>We started Court and came to a certain point, then wiped on a special named.</DIV> <DIV>Next week we pulled a strat out and beat that named to wipe on another.</DIV> <DIV>Next wee we... and so on and so on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, in T7 Times we are more trained, so the first time we got on our knees (read: 10%)</DIV> <DIV>to Veymm, seperated them and killed alzid.</DIV> <DIV>Next week we knew it better, wiped only half as bad, came with 50% to Veymm, beat</DIV> <DIV>Alzid and got our A**** kicked from V.</DIV> <DIV>Next week we did it much better, wiping only on Ruystaad and Zakratz, tried to seperate</DIV> <DIV>them.... and failed again and again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no progression. With a lot of training you can run through the Labs, but beating</DIV> <DIV>Veymm is hard to a non-hardcore-guild even if the wouldn't freaking change that</DIV> <DIV>encounter every month.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lab is like that PC Progression would be:</DIV> <DIV>100mhz, 200mhz, 300mhz, 400mhz, 500mhz.... that were the named.</DIV> <DIV>And then, a sudden jump to 4 GHZ with Veymm. Thats not what i call a progression.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nevertheless, wherever the encounter is made harder or easier is not what i want.</DIV> <DIV>I want simply (don't know if i said it often enough) that its NOT CHANGED AGAIN.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regard, theriatis.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Merkad]

Hmm, I am guessing that some people just need a few more runs through various T7 instances. Vyemm/labs is not that hard. Tonight my guild had planned Labs, but only 2 Priests (and three Pallies) showed up... Such was our luck, but we decided to give it a go anyways.Two Priests and 3 Pallies were more than enough for the Slavering Alzid (the pants guy), we upped to four priests (2 Pallies) by Prados, and finally back down to 3 Priests (drunken healer heh (2 pallies)) by that exploding draconian named.In the end, we used 3 Priests and 2 Pallies from the exploding draconian to Vyemm/Alzid. Honeslty, it was rather fun, we were wondering how tough it would be when were were healer light, but we won regardless, and had fun doing so. We did use a coercer on Alzid, I doubt we could have taken him and Vyemm at the same time while shorthanded on healers (though we have killed them that way a number of times (as we only have a coercer alt, no mains)).Anyways, the point is, this zone is not too tough. Most likely it is either lack of overall equipment/masters/AAs or strats (probably gear/masters/AAs, not too much to really figure out about Labs anymore). Anyways, good luck on next time.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.Edit to correct the first Named's name. x2<p>Message Edited by Merkades on <span class=date_text>08-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:06 AM</span>

[Ellrin]

<P>Definately to me sounds like something you are doing even if at this stage you are unaware of it.</P> <P>We fought him on Thursday and he's trivial for us now, thats not to say he was always in fact we suffered terribly week after week on this until finally we got a strat that works and it works every time, we are far from hardcore also by the way.</P> <P>Now we are doing the same thing on Tarinax and im sure he will cause us a few more weeks of pain yet before we win but thats the game. The encounter hasnt changed in the past 5 weeks or so and doesnt need to in the future.</P>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote:<div></div> <ol> <li>matron (bugged imo)</li> <li>cheldrake</li> <li>tarinax</li> <li>MO</li> <li>Princes</li> <li>Hurricanius</li> <li>venny</li> <li>vyemm</li> <li>villusade</li> <li>ghazi</li> <li>monoliths</li> <li>curor</li> <li>harla</li> <li>talendor</li> <li>gorenair</li> <li>pantrilla</li> <li>vraxsakin</li> <li>HoS mini named</li> <li>Labs mininamed</li> <li>LoA mininamed</li> <li>Roost</li> <li>Crab</li> <li>AoAx2</li></ol><hr></blockquote>Nice, that would be a good list to try to maintain...but do you really think Tarinax is harder then Princes? I would go (top 5 just)1) Matron2) Chel'drak3) Princes (just because something could 'possibly' go wrong with a switch)4) MO5) Tarinax / CruorMy guess is Cruor >> Tarinax for guilds who haven't killed Cruor before.Pretty much all the rest of the encounters provide not much difficulty at all <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[LexxerCoV]

<DIV> <DIV>"We did fight Veymm in the Room of Corsolander, in the Eye Room and in the Arena itself. <DIV>He resets"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Killed him last night. Same as always...I can say with 100% certainty that this encounter hasnt changed in weeks...maybe months <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I can tell you is that if you want to split this, its very easy to do without a coercer (probably even easier). Good luck.</DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Ishbu]

<blockquote><hr>Laiina wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Ishboozor wrote:<BR>Perfect example of the mentality that is basically sucking the life out of things.  I made it to vyemm so I should get his loot!<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You cannot seem to add anything to any thread but snide and sarcastic comments. Why?<hr></blockquote>Look my own little [Removed for Content] troll who follows me around and posts nothing!

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>I think Vyemm is harder for casual guilds because they can't bring the same dps to the table a raiding guild brings.  When you bring people into your guild because they're friends for goofing off instead of the best class mix it makes things harder.  You just can't bring the same raid dps to the encounter making it a lot harder.</P> <P>For all you hardcore guilds, imagine bringing only 8k raid dps to the table instead of 12-14k vs Vyemm.  The fight lasts 2.5 minutes instead of a minute and a half and it gets a lot trickier.  It's not necessarily a matter of L2P n00bs with 8k raid dps either, it's a matter of having the optimal classes.  Try hitting 14k dps with 3 guardians in your raid.</P> <P>That being said I don't think, like you guys said, just because you've seen Vyemm doesn't mean you should be able to kill him.  If you aren't going to recruit the optimal classes then so be it, you suffer.  The OP is asking for the encounter to not be changed due to frustration with changes which is something I think everyone can agree on.  You might have killed Vyemm your first go in but that doesn't mean everyone can.</P>

[LexxerCoV]

<DIV>"The OP is asking for the encounter to not be changed due to frustration with changes which is something I think everyone can agree on."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, it has not been changed. Maybe they got a bugged version or something, but it has not been changed. Period.</DIV>

[Ishbu]

<blockquote><hr>mikemcmodmike wrote:<P>I think Vyemm is harder for casual guilds because they can't bring the same dps to the table a raiding guild brings.  When you bring people into your guild because they're friends for goofing off instead of the best class mix it makes things harder.  You just can't bring the same raid dps to the encounter making it a lot harder.</P><P>For all you hardcore guilds, imagine bringing only 8k raid dps to the table instead of 12-14k vs Vyemm.  The fight lasts 2.5 minutes instead of a minute and a half and it gets a lot trickier.  It's not necessarily a matter of L2P n00bs with 8k raid dps either, it's a matter of having the optimal classes.  Try hitting 14k dps with 3 guardians in your raid.</P><P>That being said I don't think, like you guys said, just because you've seen Vyemm doesn't mean you should be able to kill him.  If you aren't going to recruit the optimal classes then so be it, you suffer.  The OP is asking for the encounter to not be changed due to frustration with changes which is something I think everyone can agree on.  You might have killed Vyemm your first go in but that doesn't mean everyone can.</P><hr></blockquote>Well aside from the fact our guardians historically do 1k dps...yeah we could stil do 14k, but that isnt the point here <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Why should vyemm be killable by people who form raids purely out of whomever they are having the most fun playing with regardless of class? He is supposed to be an epic boss of an epic zone. Shouldnt he be...well....epic? He should require a well planned and set up raid. Not a raid with 12 fighters, 8 priests and 4 bards. You should have to have an appropriate raid to kill him.Now how you choose to do that is up to you. I would say to my casual friends sorry, we can still be friends and hang out and all but this isnt the guild for you and you gotta go cuz we are hardcore raiders. That probably isnt a path you want to follow. If I were you I would recruit a few more people so you can do vyemm with a handful of friends one week, and the next week the people who had to sit out can do vyemm. Instead of not being able to kill him at all or having to turn him into a joke, your getting to kill him with your friends, just not all at once. Its all part of balancing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nice, that would be a good list to try to maintain...but do you really think Tarinax is harder then Princes? I would go (top 5 just)<BR><BR>1) Matron<BR>2) Chel'drak<BR>3) Princes (just because something could 'possibly' go wrong with a switch)<BR>4) MO<BR>5) Tarinax / Cruor<BR><BR>My guess is Cruor >> Tarinax for guilds who haven't killed Cruor before.<BR><BR>Pretty much all the rest of the encounters provide not much difficulty at all <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>ehh my list of where i think they should be, not where they are...  i tihnk the game might have a better sort of raid progression if my list were closer to true, and the game wasn't over staturated with fabled gear...  </P> <P>the top 5 you have is more accurate for whats ingame currently...  i'd rather see tarinax as a contested and the princes the boss of DT<BR></P>

[Dasein]

<HR> Now how you choose to do that is up to you. I would say to my casual friends sorry, we can still be friends and hang out and all but this isnt the guild for you and you gotta go cuz we are hardcore raiders. <HR> Does this make for a better game? Were I a designer, I would see this attitude as deeply worrying. The hardcore raid guild is really one of the worst things to happen to MMOs.

[Merkad]

I disagree with that. I have 2 RL friends on the Najena server and I would never ask them to join the guild I am in, and I would even recommend to the guild to pass them up. It has nothing to do with us being RL friends, just that we seek different things in this game, and they would hinder me. I don't mind joining them for groups outside raiding, chit-chat and what not, but that is where it ends while in game.Not everyone plays for the same reasons, and while I am not that hardcore, I am serious about how well I perform with my character, and those who profess the same (ie guildies).Merkades, 70th Ranger. (serious, but I am staying a Ranger <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )Siege, Najena.