Could we have a couple of "Immersion Servers" please? [Archive]

View Full Version : Could we have a couple of "Immersion Servers" please?

Lairdragna

08-05-2006, 08:38 AM

I for one am getting tired of hearing how the game is too easy, the travel too fast, their is no sense of immersion, death doesn't mean anything, experience comes to fast... The people who feel this way want to radically alter the game to make it fit their mold of what they feel the game should be. And I have no doubt, that if the majority of the player base wanted such changes they would have happened. The fact that they have not seems to indicate to me that SOE has done its market research and determined that more time sinks are not the answer, constant death and debt frustrate players and ruin their gaming experience, that leveling slower would make people feel as they were not advancing their character and leave for greener pastures. While I find fault with SOE on many aspects of the game, these are not it.However, I realize some people want to play EQ2 but have it be a different game. /boggle Being the gracious guy I am, I propose a couple of servers with the following changes:No vitality... you gain experience as you gain it, no bonusesBring back shards and recovery... when you die, you sufferEliminate bells, any travel between continents is by actual boat ride or a 60 minute black screen to simulate the time lost in transit (roughly one hour earth time equals one norrathian day)No griffins, all travel is on foot or by mountMounts are level required. Knights get their mount at 20, all others can get a mount at 30 and work up every 10 levels by speed ratingScouts can no longer run faster than mountsNo more mailing between citiesNo more fenceNo more being able to instantly access your bank account from another city, it takes 1-2 hours game time to send for an item from your city and their is a chargeMender repairs take time, equipment doesn't get fixed in the blink of an eye... 5 minutes game time per hit of damage taken per pieceCharacters may only play for one hour (one norrath day) before fatigue sets in and attributes fallMentoring is still allowed, but there is no xp bonus and there remains an xp penalty for the person mentoringCollection quests may level AA, but not adventure levels... picking bones up off the ground does not make you a better warrior... do away will CQ levelingI'm sure I can think of more, but its a start... how is that for "Immersion?" Now the hard core players, role players and the like can have their ideal server and the rest of us can continue to play the game without having to sink time in to simulate a... what's the word I'm looking for... FANTASY!Yes, this is largely sarcastic and I don't expect it to ever happen... but I know there are players who would probably like it, so its an idea worth considering.<div></div>

troodon

08-05-2006, 08:49 AM

I'll take 2 or 3 of these servers, please. Hold the sauce.Message Edited by troodon on 08-04-2006 09:50 PM

FlintAH

08-05-2006, 08:55 AM

Seems like you equate boring pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] w/ immersion. Who on earth would pay to stare at a black screen for an hour? What if you wanted to go from Qeynos to Bonemire? That is 4 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing hours staring at an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] black screen. Dumbest idea I think Ive ever heard. Im not sure how a black screen for an hour at a time is fantasy. Last I checked fantasy involved teleportation magic and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Reality is what requires people to spend for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing ever doing something. People dont play a game to do tedious stuff.<div></div>

Lairdragna

08-05-2006, 09:00 AM

Well my point is this Flint... a 10 minute boat ride can not adequaltely simulate a cross sea journey. So if developers want to provide the sense of time lost in transit, that means either an hour long ride on a boat which is taxing to servers, or a lock-up of the game. And no, I was not serious in this suggestion... it was taking the argument to an extreme to show the folly of the original proposition.Yes, it is a fantasy game. And in a world in which we can summon elementals, resurrect the dead and battle dragons... its not too hard to justify teleporting. But for many THIS concept ruins their FANTASY game... so I'm simply injecting tedium into the fantasy to make it more akin to reality.<div></div>

Monnkees

08-05-2006, 09:10 AM

ROFL! Lair made this post for me....and I like everything suggested, a couple changes though. Also, the idea is not to be masachistic and just do things that make life harder, it is to simulate what it would be like, or the closest equivalent in a game. What is most important to me, is I want the game to be the closest simulation to what fantasy would be like if it were real life (yes, I know about Vangaurd, but I like EQ storyline lol, and I am here for friends/family). HOORAY FOR NO VITALITY!!! When I get a few days off of work I like to grind, and being restricted by vitality ticks me off to no end, talk about artificial means of limiting leveling. There are pro's and con's to both shard and corpse recovery, I still have not really decided which is better. I think corpse recovery because you can drag the corpse, and in fact recovering shards at time CAN become to difficult, but I guess it all depends, I would go with either/or. Also with the boats, I actually would get a kick out of a half hour ride, maybe even an hour. Having the screen just black out would be unreasonable if you actually had to wait for it, the whole idea being it is a chance to do things you dont normally do. Yay no bells! Woo no griffins! (Well I dunno, they are kinda fun! For crossing major overland areas I think it is a good idea/compromise). I think mounts you should be able to get at level 1, but should be much more expensive. Knights should get a better mount, special to them, but they have to pay for it as well. Mail should be in place, but take longer. Fence should be in place, because frankly it is fairly realistic lol. However there should be an update time between cities maybe... not instant. The bank idea is good. Mender reparing idea is great, I did not even think of that. You would have to plan better and keep your skin intact, then repair at the end of the night. Fatigue on the character I think is a good idea, but needs a better system than that. You have to account for the players real time. Maybe a 5 minute rest every hour, or 15 every 2 hours etc. and their character would have to sleep. This would also be an excellent mechanism for people to actually take breaks from their computer, as it is unhealthy to just sit there (like me! lol). Mentoring I feel is a decent system as it stands now, it has some good compromises. I strongly agree with not getting adventure xp for collection quests.Message Edited by Monnkees on 08-04-2006 10:10 PM

Monnkees

08-05-2006, 09:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote: Well my point is this Flint... a 10 minute boat ride can not adequaltely simulate a cross sea journey. So if developers want to provide the sense of time lost in transit, that means either an hour long ride on a boat which is taxing to servers, or a lock-up of the game. And no, I was not serious in this suggestion... it was taking the argument to an extreme to show the folly of the original proposition. Yes, it is a fantasy game. And in a world in which we can summon elementals, resurrect the dead and battle dragons... its not too hard to justify teleporting. But for many THIS concept ruins their FANTASY game... so I'm simply injecting tedium into the fantasy to make it more akin to reality. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> In response to teleporting, I actually have nothing against it. A wizard teleporting is fine, a warrior is not. A wizard teleporting a warrior is fine. The wizard can only teleport to predetermined places. The sytem EQ had worked very well. Luclin also had a good principle I feel. PoK just destroyed all forms of travel (even though I loved that expansion on the whole).

Lairdragna

08-05-2006, 09:17 AM

There is no way a level 1 character could afford a mount unless they just tradeskilled and earned coin, they were a twink... or somebody starting the game bought plat. So nope, I'm going to have to disagree and say no mounts at level 1. Maybe I would bend and say 20. If you are going to make knights pay for their mount, it isn't going to be the [Removed for Content] mount we have now... you're right, it has to be knight worthy! Say make it the quality of one tier higher than what another class of your level could have. So if basic run speed is 24 at level 30... the knight's horse would be run speed 32 at 30.We simply can not have alt twinking and ebayed riches ruining our Immersion [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it! :smileyvery-happy:And yes, my alt had a 40 run speed horse at level 6, purchased with guild status derived from status items my main passed along... then again, I never claimed this kind of server was what I would play on... :smileytongue:<div></div>

Monnkees

08-05-2006, 09:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote: There is no way a level 1 character could afford a mount unless they just tradeskilled and earned coin, they were a twink... or somebody starting the game bought plat. So nope, I'm going to have to disagree and say no mounts at level 1. Maybe I would bend and say 20. If you are going to make knights pay for their mount, it isn't going to be the [Removed for Content] mount we have now... you're right, it has to be knight worthy! Say make it the quality of one tier higher than what another class of your level could have. So if basic run speed is 24 at level 30... the knight's horse would be run speed 32 at 30. We simply can not have alt twinking and ebayed riches ruining our Immersion [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it! :smileyvery-happy: And yes, my alt had a 40 run speed horse at level 6, purchased with guild status derived from status items my main passed along... then again, I never claimed this kind of server was what I would play on... :smileytongue: <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I suppose you are right about the level for mounts, it would not matter much anyway, level 1-20 goes by in a flash. I very much agree about the knight mounts, and agree with them being a higher tier. Knights live on their mounts, they would have the most superior warhorse they could find!

Lairdragna

08-05-2006, 09:27 AM

1-20 wouldn't go so fast with no vitality, no collection quest rewards, real debt, mandated rest times or risk losing attributes and gaining experience slower, no mentoring... Come on man, you have to look at all this as a big picture. Going from 1-20 would be a chore doing it this way! :smileyvery-happy:<div></div>

Monnkees

08-05-2006, 09:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote: 1-20 wouldn't go so fast with no vitality, no collection quest rewards, real debt, mandated rest times or risk losing attributes and gaining experience slower, no mentoring... Come on man, you have to look at all this as a big picture. Going from 1-20 would be a chore doing it this way! :smileyvery-happy: <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I did it, it was called Everquest :smileytongue: I loved it very much too, then everything slowly changed. :smileysad:

Nib

08-05-2006, 09:33 AM

Sign me up! <div></div>

Lairdragna

08-05-2006, 09:35 AM

I look back at my EQ Live days fondly... just like I do graduate school... doesn't mean I'd ever want to repeat either!I would seriously have no problem with a server set up like this, I wouldn't play it... but I see a place for it. Of course we would then have to listen to the constant arguments about how much better the players from this server are because they had to walk uphill to school both ways on alternating steps of ice shards chilled to absolute zero and plasma from the core of the sun and kill a level 100x6 epic while on newbie island with a thre ring binder missing two rings... More flame bait for the forums!<div></div>

Monnkees

08-05-2006, 09:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote: I look back at my EQ Live days fondly... just like I do graduate school... doesn't mean I'd ever want to repeat either! I would seriously have no problem with a server set up like this, I wouldn't play it... but I see a place for it. Of course we would then have to listen to the constant arguments about how much better the players from this server are because they had to walk uphill to school both ways on alternating steps of ice shards chilled to absolute zero and plasma from the core of the sun and kill a level 100x6 epic while on newbie island with a thre ring binder missing two rings... More flame bait for the forums! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Actually I think once we had this kind of server we would for the most part happily mind our own business and stay concerned with improving our own server. It is not about being better than others. :smileysad: I find those experiences very rewarding on a much deeper level, it is not just entertainment to me.

Renolas

08-05-2006, 11:23 AM

Or how about an effort vs. reward server... where the amount of effort put into killling [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is actually = to the reward BUT only on this server cause its the special server

kyth

08-05-2006, 02:44 PM

Funny thing is the game was dumbed down to make it better/easier for "casual" and "new" players. I highly doubt given eq2's active sub count that they would ever open up suck a server. Though even if we had 1mil users I doubt they woudl ever open up such a server. The boat "idea" really stuck out to me though. I remember the 30-60min boat rides that eq1 had. After a period of time those rides were shortened in time. Waiting an hour to get to where i want to be, to do what i want, in a game that i have to pay for just sounds insane. But that's just me.<div></div>

Ess-K

08-05-2006, 03:05 PM

I'd like to put my yes vote in for this. Like most of the ideas, death penalty and slower travel ie boats rides and no griffons is a very appealing concept. I miss the hardcore punishments from EQ1, would like to see the worry of dying at the bottom of a dungeon zone brought back.Doubt SOE would ever invest the time and resources into making this happen though <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Who knows though, we may get lucky one day.Great postSandking Ironjaw (61 Conjurer)Runnyeye Server<div></div>

Feltrak

08-05-2006, 03:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote: I for one am getting tired of hearing how the game is too easy, the travel too fast, their is no sense of immersion, death doesn't mean anything, experience comes to fast... The people who feel this way want to radically alter the game to make it fit their mold of what they feel the game should be. And I have no doubt, that if the majority of the player base wanted such changes they would have happened. The fact that they have not seems to indicate to me that SOE has done its market research and determined that more time sinks are not the answer, constant death and debt frustrate players and ruin their gaming experience, that leveling slower would make people feel as they were not advancing their character and leave for greener pastures. While I find fault with SOE on many aspects of the game, these are not it. However, I realize some people want to play EQ2 but have it be a different game. /boggle Being the gracious guy I am, I propose a couple of servers with the following changes: No vitality... you gain experience as you gain it, no bonuses Bring back shards and recovery... when you die, you suffer Eliminate bells, any travel between continents is by actual boat ride or a 60 minute black screen to simulate the time lost in transit (roughly one hour earth time equals one norrathian day) No griffins, all travel is on foot or by mount Mounts are level required. Knights get their mount at 20, all others can get a mount at 30 and work up every 10 levels by speed rating Scouts can no longer run faster than mounts No more mailing between cities No more fence No more being able to instantly access your bank account from another city, it takes 1-2 hours game time to send for an item from your city and their is a charge Mender repairs take time, equipment doesn't get fixed in the blink of an eye... 5 minutes game time per hit of damage taken per piece Characters may only play for one hour (one norrath day) before fatigue sets in and attributes fall Mentoring is still allowed, but there is no xp bonus and there remains an xp penalty for the person mentoring Collection quests may level AA, but not adventure levels... picking bones up off the ground does not make you a better warrior... do away will CQ leveling I'm sure I can think of more, but its a start... how is that for "Immersion?" Now the hard core players, role players and the like can have their ideal server and the rest of us can continue to play the game without having to sink time in to simulate a... what's the word I'm looking for... FANTASY! Yes, this is largely sarcastic and I don't expect it to ever happen... but I know there are players who would probably like it, so its an idea worth considering. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Want your game to be harder? Make it harder! Here, I'll help you start off. No vitality... you gain experience as you gain it, no bonuses Disable Combat XP for the first 15 minutes of every hour, on the hour! Bring back shards and recovery... when you die, you suffer Whenever you die, just strip your armor, and move to your death point naked. This should simulate recovering your shard. Also, feel free to disable combat XP for 25 minutes of the next hour, instead of 15! Eliminate bells, any travel between continents is by actual boat ride or a 60 minute black screen to simulate the time lost in transit (roughly one hour earth time equals one norrathian day) Whenever you click a bell, turn off your monitor for one hour! Don't forget to put afk up though, other people playing the game might want to know what you are doing! For an EVEN BETTER experience, take the actual boat trip offered by the bell! No griffins, all travel is on foot or by mount Instead of using the griffon, just run the whole way! You won't get bored, because, hey, you've got an hour of black screen time up ahead soon as ya make it to the docks! No more fence Someone, somewhere, will always find a way to turn a profit like this. What you're suggesting is that PLAYERS actually have to be that person. (/sarcasm off, this is actually a great idea, letting players handle the city to city economies.) No more being able to instantly access your bank account from another city, it takes 1-2 hours game time to send for an item from your city and their is a charge This won't really be avoided in any game, ever. The closest it's ever gotten is Final Fantasy XI. When I played (up until EQ2 came out) your little housekeeper would watch your stuff for you in your home town. He would carry it around with him. When you went to another city, if you wanted to access your little housekeeper, you asked the innkeeper to rent you a room so your little housekeeper could fly across the continent magically and you two could rent a room together. Mender repairs take time, equipment doesn't get fixed in the blink of an eye... 5 minutes game time per hit of damage taken per piece So for a full repair (17x10 = 170, 170x5 = 850 game minutes. 850 game minutes ~ 14 game hours [72 earth minutes = 1 Norrathian Day] ~ 42 earth minutes) it would take me 42 minutes. Awesome. Just what I want to do at the end of a night of raiding or adventuring. Characters may only play for one hour (one norrath day) before fatigue sets in and attributes fall I refuse to pay for a game that I'm penalized a great deal for playing more than one hour per session. This would actually be interesting if something like a campsite were added in. I.E. use an item (like food/drink) that replenishes your attributes back. However, to retain my attention span and not [Removed for Content] me off it'd have to be at most 2-3 minutes of my time. Mentoring is still allowed, but there is no xp bonus and there remains an xp penalty for the person mentoring Collection quests may level AA, but not adventure levels... picking bones up off the ground does not make you a better warrior... do away will CQ leveling /agree *shrug* Your suggestions require a hardcore type of player, but yet punishes that person for being a hardcore type. If a care bear were to play on this server, they'd quit. If a hardcore player played on this server, they'd quit too. Sounds like a great server for those submissive...hardcore...type...people..... I think what we need to do, if we really want a true fantasy experience, is bring back the days of diablo 2 hardcore ladder mode. Yes, that's right, die and your character stays dead. Get level 70, die because your cloud got bugged and magically dropped you off in the middle of nowhere, and you can reroll.Message Edited by Feltrak on 08-05-2006 04:37 AM

Nib

08-05-2006, 04:02 PM

<div></div>Heck, I'd settle for -- tradeskill interdepdency, no vitality, spirit shards, shared group debt, fabled drops that are actually fabled, and rares that are actually rare. <div></div>Message Edited by wyoung on 08-05-2006 05:13 AM

Lairdragna

08-05-2006, 06:30 PM

Like I said Feltrak, I wouldn't play on a server like this period! But there do seem to be folk who think it would be ideal... so I say give it to them! Wouldn't take much coding, because a lot of it had been in game at one time or another. As far as you imposing your own discipline and implimenting some of the punishments for failure and travel delays, Monnk would argue that if you did this, nobody would play with you because it inhibits their game play to wait for you to run, or "recover your shard" or strip off your armor for X amount of time. We really need a dedicated place for like minded folks, if for no other reason that it will seperate divergent playstyles and end the bickering over whether its potato or potatoh.<div></div>

Monnkees

08-05-2006, 08:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote: Like I said Feltrak, I wouldn't play on a server like this period! But there do seem to be folk who think it would be ideal... so I say give it to them! Wouldn't take much coding, because a lot of it had been in game at one time or another. As far as you imposing your own discipline and implimenting some of the punishments for failure and travel delays, Monnk would argue that if you did this, nobody would play with you because it inhibits their game play to wait for you to run, or "recover your shard" or strip off your armor for X amount of time. We really need a dedicated place for like minded folks, if for no other reason that it will seperate divergent playstyles and end the bickering over whether its potato or potatoh. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> It is potato, if I hear the word pronuonced incorrectly, I correct it. :smileytongue:

draci101

08-05-2006, 09:03 PM

I sure hope that everyone in this thread realizes that this would be istantly boring after 3 days or you can't recover your shard due to a bug whichever comes first. Good idea but thats about it. Just an idea.<div></div>

MexStrat

08-05-2006, 10:48 PM

Here is an idea for total immersion.If you die. you don't get an option to revive. You have to lay there and hope someone comes along to raise you. Don't bother trying to scream out for a rez(dead can't talk) <div></div>

Lairdragna

08-05-2006, 11:13 PM

Monnkees

08-05-2006, 11:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> draci101 wrote: I sure hope that everyone in this thread realizes that this would be istantly boring after 3 days or you can't recover your shard due to a bug whichever comes first. Good idea but thats about it. Just an idea. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Maybe it would be to you, but not to many others. EQ was even harsher than these suggestions, and I was obcessed with playing it back then. I have extremely fond memories of all the hardships, and I liked them while I was going through them for the most part. Even the ones I did not like, I remember warmly. By the way, I think I would prefer the corpse system, I do not like shards. Also, many people are entirely missing the point and seem to be under the impression what we want is to just make our lives as difficult as possible. No. We have a different idea of what immersion is, and we want the game to closer simulate what the fantasy would be like in real life, but still remain a reasonable game to play. There is a balance.Message Edited by Monnkees on 08-05-2006 12:24 PM

Miroh

08-06-2006, 01:48 AM

Neon colors hurt my eyes <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

Mjollnyr

08-06-2006, 02:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monnkees wrote: Maybe it would be to you, but not to many others. EQ was even harsher than these suggestions, and I was obcessed with playing it back then. I have extremely fond memories of all the hardships, and I liked them while I was going through them for the most part. Even the ones I did not like, I remember warmly. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Staring at my spell book for the first 35 levels. Wow those were great and memorable times. Glad i bought an awesome video card. To each their own. But i'll continue working in real life, and having fun in games.

JackBurtonBTLC

08-06-2006, 03:04 AM

I think this is a good idea... there are a lot of very HARD core gamers who want a tougher game..give it to em..<div></div>

Monnkees

08-06-2006, 08:23 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mjollnyr wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monnkees wrote: Maybe it would be to you, but not to many others. EQ was even harsher than these suggestions, and I was obcessed with playing it back then. I have extremely fond memories of all the hardships, and I liked them while I was going through them for the most part. Even the ones I did not like, I remember warmly. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Staring at my spell book for the first 35 levels. Wow those were great and memorable times. Glad i bought an awesome video card. To each their own. But i'll continue working in real life, and having fun in games. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> As you said to each their own, I think it is that I am a more traditional D&D type player and I make a lot of my own fun. Yes, even staring at my spellbook.

MystaSkrat

08-06-2006, 09:07 AM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote: More flame bait for the forums! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> That alone is an excellent reason to do this.</DIV>

Lairdragna

08-06-2006, 04:40 PM

Ughhhh go away Skritch, nobody invited DISSO to this thread... shooo shooo!<div></div>

Gaige

08-07-2006, 09:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote: Ughhhh go away Skritch, nobody invited DISSO to this thread... shooo shooo! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I hate when Disso posts in threads, those derailers! However, I think the answer to this post, like most other special server posts would be no. It isn't worth the cost that SOE would have to bear in order to maintain two servers with such vastly different rulesets and mechanics.

08-08-2006, 09:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MexStrat wrote: Here is an idea for total immersion. If you die. you don't get an option to revive. You have to lay there and hope someone comes along to raise you. Don't bother trying to scream out for a rez(dead can't talk) <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I'm guessing it's sarcasim but if nothing else it's to prove a point..you think you're hardcore but you're NOT that hardcorce. The days of EQ1 are gone let it go please but I agree EQ2 does a bit too much handholding. That being said people who actually work, have families etc..haven't the time for hour corpse runs, needless time sinks and other rubish. But for you blood and guts types don't fret, Vanguard drops later this year. Message Edited by Ion on 08-08-2006 01:53 PM

Lornick

08-10-2006, 04:31 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monnkees wrote: HOORAY FOR NO VITALITY!!! When I get a few days off of work I like to grind, and being restricted by vitality ticks me off to no end, talk about artificial means of limiting leveling. <HR> This statement is just absurd. There is no artificial restriction. You can continue to gain experience for your character without vitality. When EQ2 went live the vitality system was in place but there was no display for it. It took like a month for players to even know about the discrepency. Thousands and thousands of people playing the same game yet gaining experience at different rates and no one really noticed... The point I'm making is that the only "restriction" is in your head. Try taking the exp bar off your screen and just play the game. As a "champion" of immersion the idea should appeal to you. Frankly that should be another feature of the "immersion" server. No experience bars. You just get the little circle with your current level in it =p </BLOCKQUOTE>

Monnkees

08-12-2006, 04:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lornick wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monnkees wrote: HOORAY FOR NO VITALITY!!! When I get a few days off of work I like to grind, and being restricted by vitality ticks me off to no end, talk about artificial means of limiting leveling. <HR> This statement is just absurd. There is no artificial restriction. You can continue to gain experience for your character without vitality. When EQ2 went live the vitality system was in place but there was no display for it. It took like a month for players to even know about the discrepency. Thousands and thousands of people playing the same game yet gaining experience at different rates and no one really noticed... The point I'm making is that the only "restriction" is in your head. Try taking the exp bar off your screen and just play the game. As a "champion" of immersion the idea should appeal to you. Frankly that should be another feature of the "immersion" server. No experience bars. You just get the little circle with your current level in it =p </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I remember when EQ2 came out the vitality was not shown, and I also remember the uproar there was when people were grouping at the same time, yet one was getting, quite literally, twice the experience. This happened to me, and I can assure you it was very confusing for the first week or so, as I thought it must be in my head. After that though, I can assure you many people noticed, very quickly, and were very upset about it. The restriction is most certainly not in my head, and I dont know where you get that idea. I will be playing, watching my vitality drain. When it gets to 0%, my experience rate cuts in half. Still getting experience is not = to getting the same experience. So because I happen to play a lot in a few days, I should have my time count for less after a certain point? By the way, I actually like the idea of no experience bars. Not seeing my experience as it goes by so I dont have something to obcess over? Great. Cutting my experience in half after a certain point? To what end exactly? This is something I have been unhappy with since the game went live. Also, if I remember correctly (if someone else here was in beta, would like confirmation), the vitality system was added at the last minute before (or just after) release. I do not remember it being in place at all when in beta, or anyone discussing it. Regardless, I feel it is an artificial restriction, always have, and everything I have ever heard as to WHY they did it, well....did not make much practical sense. Basically it was just to stop powerleveling. What is it their business if I want to powerlevel anyway, I should not have to pay for that. If they want to deal with people powerleveling then selling the characters, do so. But dont make my life harder for that reason. Immersion, realistic ideas etc, awesome. Restricting me for something that makes no in game sense, and has nothing to do with me. Not awesome. Anyway.... not like they are going to remove it anytime soon anyway, but I can still hope.

Conequis

08-12-2006, 05:34 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Monnkees wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr></blockquote>Restricting me for something that makes no in game sense, and has nothing to do with me. Not awesome.<hr></blockquote>It does not restrict you, you restrict yourself.</div>

Gorl

08-12-2006, 07:14 PM

Qeynos and Freeport are not friends with each other. Why is it then that we can group with each other. I moved to the pvp server just to get away from Qeynos people, which many Qeynos people moved to Freeport... What i am saying is add pvp chat and grouping rules to the list for an immersion server<div></div>

Lairdragna

08-13-2006, 08:07 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Gorlim wrote:Qeynos and Freeport are not friends with each other. Why is it then that we can group with each other. I moved to the pvp server just to get away from Qeynos people, which many Qeynos people moved to Freeport... What i am saying is add pvp chat and grouping rules to the list for an immersion server<div></div><hr></blockquote>People will just work around it by going into exile... like some raiding guilds do on PvP servers. Quite frankly, that is a load of chicken [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in my book. You are on PvP for a reason, then you realize it crimps raiding so you perma-exile? I'm not a PvPer, but this rubs me the wrong way. I think you should get so many in game hours to complete the betrayal quest before you become KoS to every NPC and other player in the game, you shouldn't be allowed to group with ANYBODY, you shouldn't be able to buy, sell or repair from vendors. Essentially do the quest as intended, don't use it as a loophole to game the PvP raid community, or your character essentially becomes useless and you are left to delete it.Yes, I'm a paladin... but I'm EVUL!</div>

Soldross

08-14-2006, 04:21 AM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Monnkees wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lornick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Monnkees wrote:<div></div><div></div>HOORAY FOR NO VITALITY!!! When I get a few days off of work I like to grind, and being restricted by vitality ticks me off to no end, talk about artificial means of limiting leveling.<hr>This statement is just absurd. There is no artificial restriction. You can continue to gain experience for your character without vitality. When EQ2 went live the vitality system was in place but there was no display for it. It took like a month for players to even know about the discrepency. Thousands and thousands of people playing the same game yet gaining experience at different rates and no one really noticed... The point I'm making is that the only "restriction" is in your head. Try taking the exp bar off your screen and just play the game. As a "champion" of immersion the idea should appeal to you. Frankly that should be another feature of the "immersion" server. No experience bars. You just get the little circle with your current level in it =p</blockquote><hr></blockquote>I remember when EQ2 came out the vitality was not shown, and I also remember the uproar there was when people were grouping at the same time, yet one was getting, quite literally, twice the experience. This happened to me, and I can assure you it was very confusing for the first week or so, as I thought it must be in my head. After that though, I can assure you many people noticed, very quickly, and were very upset about it.The restriction is most certainly not in my head, and I dont know where you get that idea. I will be playing, watching my vitality drain. When it gets to 0%, my experience rate cuts in half. Still getting experience is not = to getting the same experience. So because I happen to play a lot in a few days, I should have my time count for less after a certain point?You've gone back to the normal rate. It isn't cut in half. The mechanic was geared to people who have limited time to play and quite honestly it takes forever for vitality to drop to zero. No there isn't some Lore reason for it and quite honestly I never took notice of it. It's been a complete and utter non-issue even after read about it.By the way, I actually like the idea of no experience bars. Not seeing my experience as it goes by so I dont have something to obcess over? Great. Cutting my experience in half after a certain point? To what end exactly? This is something I have been unhappy with since the game went live. Also, if I remember correctly (if someone else here was in beta, would like confirmation), the vitality system was added at the last minute before (or just after) release. I do not remember it being in place at all when in beta, or anyone discussing it.Unless the UI window can't be turned off this is a non-issue. Just turn off the window. Go grind. Send grats to people as they level and quit obsessing about the mechanic.Regardless, I feel it is an artificial restriction, always have, and everything I have ever heard as to WHY they did it, well....did not make much practical sense. Basically it was just to stop powerleveling. What is it their business if I want to powerlevel anyway, I should not have to pay for that. If they want to deal with people powerleveling then selling the characters, do so. But dont make my life harder for that reason.It makes perfect sense if you realize they wanted something in place to retain the casual player. Hint, without the vitality increase you would be at your "half" XP gain 24x7. Mouse over your XP bar when you have vitality and it is plain as day "You are gaining double XP...." Immersion, realistic ideas etc, awesome. Restricting me for something that makes no in game sense, and has nothing to do with me. Not awesome.You are not being restricted. You get the same benny as everyone else. You simply use it up due to the amount of time you are in-game. I'm not getting where you see this as a restriction.Anyway.... not like they are going to remove it anytime soon anyway, but I can still hope.I'd settle for an option to opt out of it since the alternative is to completely turn off combat XP.<hr></blockquote></div>

Soldross

08-14-2006, 04:52 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>FlintAH wrote:Seems like you equate boring pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] w/ immersion. Who on earth would pay to stare at a black screen for an hour? What if you wanted to go from Qeynos to Bonemire? That is 4 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing hours staring at an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] black screen. Dumbest idea I think Ive ever heard. Im not sure how a black screen for an hour at a time is fantasy. Last I checked fantasy involved teleportation magic and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Reality is what requires people to spend for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing ever doing something. People dont play a game to do tedious stuff.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Heh. *screen goes dark* Ok, what do I do now? I think I'll log into <insert other online game here> and play that for an hour. *play other online game for two hours* Oh I should go back to EQ2 and play in TS now. Maybe I'll head out to the Feerrott since there's no one here doing Giants atm. *screen goes dark* Huh, another hour. Guess it's back to <insert other online game here>.*month goes by and it's time to look over the finances* Dang, getting low on ramen and a gamer's gotta eat. So what to do.... Well, most of my time in EQ2 is spent looking at a black screen and I'm playing <insert other online game here> all the time now. Guess I'll ditch my subscription.And this is why that will never happen. The immersion is in the content provided within the instance not in the zoning into it. Even the developers of Vangard hold out the chance of adding teleportation to the game if travel to content becomes excessive.</div>

selch

08-14-2006, 05:42 AM

<blockquote><hr>Soldross wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>FlintAH wrote:Seems like you equate boring pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] w/ immersion. Who on earth would pay to stare at a black screen for an hour? What if you wanted to go from Qeynos to Bonemire? That is 4 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing hours staring at an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] black screen. Dumbest idea I think Ive ever heard. Im not sure how a black screen for an hour at a time is fantasy. Last I checked fantasy involved teleportation magic and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Reality is what requires people to spend for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing ever doing something. People dont play a game to do tedious stuff.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Heh. *screen goes dark* Ok, what do I do now? I think I'll log into <insert other online game here> and play that for an hour. *play other online game for two hours* Oh I should go back to EQ2 and play in TS now. Maybe I'll head out to the Feerrott since there's no one here doing Giants atm. *screen goes dark* Huh, another hour. Guess it's back to <insert other online game here>.*month goes by and it's time to look over the finances* Dang, getting low on ramen and a gamer's gotta eat. So what to do.... Well, most of my time in EQ2 is spent looking at a black screen and I'm playing <insert other online game here> all the time now. Guess I'll ditch my subscription.And this is why that will never happen. The immersion is in the content provided within the instance not in the zoning into it. Even the developers of Vangard hold out the chance of adding teleportation to the game if travel to content becomes excessive.</div><hr></blockquote>LOL, actually, in E3, they said travel to content will be instant and make too fast mounts and travel options.

SnowKnight

08-14-2006, 06:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monnkees wrote: HOORAY FOR NO VITALITY!!! When I get a few days off of work I like to grind, and being restricted by vitality ticks me off to no end, talk about artificial means of limiting leveling. Message Edited by Monnkees on 08-04-2006 10:10 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>How does vitality limit levelling? o.0

Lairdragna

08-15-2006, 12:06 AM

Some people can't get beyond the concept of not earning double xp... so they see no vitality and they figure why bother. Mentally there is just a road block. For me, I love vitality... love it so much I like it to disappear as fast as possible. That means I am pushing my progression as hard as I can by not ever letting it get to 100% and wasting a single percent of it!<div></div>

Monnkees

08-15-2006, 03:36 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote: Some people can't get beyond the concept of not earning double xp... so they see no vitality and they figure why bother. Mentally there is just a road block. For me, I love vitality... love it so much I like it to disappear as fast as possible. That means I am pushing my progression as hard as I can by not ever letting it get to 100% and wasting a single percent of it! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> So what about when its all gone? You are getting half as much for the same amount of work. A big problem for me is I like to play in spurts, and I do make it dissappear as fast as possible. Then its gone and I get my experience cut in half. Before I was getting 20% xp an hour, now Im getting 10%, the reason? None given. Again it is just wording...you are not earning double xp, you are earning the normal amount of experience. If I happen to play to much, I get that xp gain cut in half.Message Edited by Monnkees on 08-14-2006 04:54 PM

Monnkees

08-15-2006, 03:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Soldross wrote: <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monnkees wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lornick wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monnkees wrote: HOORAY FOR NO VITALITY!!! When I get a few days off of work I like to grind, and being restricted by vitality ticks me off to no end, talk about artificial means of limiting leveling. <HR> This statement is just absurd. There is no artificial restriction. You can continue to gain experience for your character without vitality. When EQ2 went live the vitality system was in place but there was no display for it. It took like a month for players to even know about the discrepency. Thousands and thousands of people playing the same game yet gaining experience at different rates and no one really noticed... The point I'm making is that the only "restriction" is in your head. Try taking the exp bar off your screen and just play the game. As a "champion" of immersion the idea should appeal to you. Frankly that should be another feature of the "immersion" server. No experience bars. You just get the little circle with your current level in it =p </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I remember when EQ2 came out the vitality was not shown, and I also remember the uproar there was when people were grouping at the same time, yet one was getting, quite literally, twice the experience. This happened to me, and I can assure you it was very confusing for the first week or so, as I thought it must be in my head. After that though, I can assure you many people noticed, very quickly, and were very upset about it. The restriction is most certainly not in my head, and I dont know where you get that idea. I will be playing, watching my vitality drain. When it gets to 0%, my experience rate cuts in half. Still getting experience is not = to getting the same experience. So because I happen to play a lot in a few days, I should have my time count for less after a certain point? You've gone back to the normal rate. It isn't cut in half. The mechanic was geared to people who have limited time to play and quite honestly it takes forever for vitality to drop to zero. No there isn't some Lore reason for it and quite honestly I never took notice of it. It's been a complete and utter non-issue even after read about it. There is no "double xp". That is the normal amount of xp most people in the game make. If I happen to play to much over a few days, my experience is cut in half, I am not returning to "normal". "Double xp" is just to make people feel good about it. "Normal" is what you well...normally get. The supposed double xp is the normal xp, and when that runs out, you are getting half of the normal amount of xp. <HR> By the way, I actually like the idea of no experience bars. Not seeing my experience as it goes by so I dont have something to obcess over? Great. Cutting my experience in half after a certain point? To what end exactly? This is something I have been unhappy with since the game went live. Also, if I remember correctly (if someone else here was in beta, would like confirmation), the vitality system was added at the last minute before (or just after) release. I do not remember it being in place at all when in beta, or anyone discussing it. Unless the UI window can't be turned off this is a non-issue. Just turn off the window. Go grind. Send grats to people as they level and quit obsessing about the mechanic. The window was not the issue. If there was no window and I saw my xp cut in half, Id be just as upset about it, it would just take me a LOT longer to notice (IE someone would probably figure it out eventually). <HR> Regardless, I feel it is an artificial restriction, always have, and everything I have ever heard as to WHY they did it, well....did not make much practical sense. Basically it was just to stop powerleveling. What is it their business if I want to powerlevel anyway, I should not have to pay for that. If they want to deal with people powerleveling then selling the characters, do so. But dont make my life harder for that reason. It makes perfect sense if you realize they wanted something in place to retain the casual player. Hint, without the vitality increase you would be at your "half" XP gain 24x7. Mouse over your XP bar when you have vitality and it is plain as day "You are gaining double XP...." If there were no vitality, and we were at half the xp we get now with the vitality, that would be the normal xp rate, and this would be a non-issue. As to the wording "You are gaining double XP...", simple wording, nothing more than that. It is much easier to explain it as double xp than to say you are getting your regular xp cut in half due to the fact that you have been playing longer than we would like you to. <HR> Immersion, realistic ideas etc, awesome. Restricting me for something that makes no in game sense, and has nothing to do with me. Not awesome. You are not being restricted. You get the same benny as everyone else. You simply use it up due to the amount of time you are in-game. I'm not getting where you see this as a restriction. I am not seeing where it is not a restriction. I get the same xp as everyone else, if I happen to be really good at getting xp, and I get the chance to play a lot in a short period of time (which is basically what happens), I get my xp cut in half (I do NOT lose double xp, I am getting the normal xp cut in half). Furthermore, no reasoning is given for this, it simply is there as an artificial restriction. (Artificial in this case meaning, it has no real place in the game, no lore to back it up, and it was never explained). <HR> Anyway.... not like they are going to remove it anytime soon anyway, but I can still hope. I'd settle for an option to opt out of it since the alternative is to completely turn off combat XP. If they made it so you have no vitality and you either get as much as you do with, or without, the vitality at all times, I would be happy. I dont care which direction they go, I just dont like being limited for no reason because I happen to have a lot of play time in a short period of time. Typically that is my playstyle by the way, I play a little every evening, mostly messing around, then I will spend several days I get off work to grind myself up a few levels to make some real progress. Within the first couple days my vitality is usually gone, and so I am being punished for having a lot of time to play in a short period of time. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Soldross

08-15-2006, 04:02 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Monnkees wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Lairdragna wrote:Some people can't get beyond the concept of not earning double xp... so they see no vitality and they figure why bother. Mentally there is just a road block. For me, I love vitality... love it so much I like it to disappear as fast as possible. That means I am pushing my progression as hard as I can by not ever letting it get to 100% and wasting a single percent of it! <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>So what about when its all gone? You are getting half as much for the same amount of work.<hr></blockquote>Can we just call it over-training and be done with it? :smileytongue:Seriously, the mechanic is what it is. You want an in-game/Lore justification for it and there isn't one. The mechanic panders to an audience which you are not really part of - the casual gamer. I don't see it as going away because I see EQ2 as focused on that population. Personally, as a casual gamer, I don't give a rip about it. I'd still play the game because I like it. But that's just me. I'm taking my time. 6 months and lvl 43 or lvl 21 I'd still play. But I RP with my toon, levels aren't as important to me, so I think even I am abberrent from SoE's target audience.Time to let it go and move on.</div>

Soldross

08-15-2006, 04:11 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Monnkees wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Soldross wrote: <div></div> <div> <blockquote> <hr> Monnkees wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Lornick wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Monnkees wrote: <div></div> <div></div> HOORAY FOR NO VITALITY!!! When I get a few days off of work I like to grind, and being restricted by vitality ticks me off to no end, talk about artificial means of limiting leveling. <hr> This statement is just absurd. There is no artificial restriction. You can continue to gain experience for your character without vitality. When EQ2 went live the vitality system was in place but there was no display for it. It took like a month for players to even know about the discrepency. Thousands and thousands of people playing the same game yet gaining experience at different rates and no one really noticed... The point I'm making is that the only "restriction" is in your head. Try taking the exp bar off your screen and just play the game. As a "champion" of immersion the idea should appeal to you. Frankly that should be another feature of the "immersion" server. No experience bars. You just get the little circle with your current level in it =p </blockquote> <hr> </blockquote> I remember when EQ2 came out the vitality was not shown, and I also remember the uproar there was when people were grouping at the same time, yet one was getting, quite literally, twice the experience. This happened to me, and I can assure you it was very confusing for the first week or so, as I thought it must be in my head. After that though, I can assure you many people noticed, very quickly, and were very upset about it. The restriction is most certainly not in my head, and I dont know where you get that idea. I will be playing, watching my vitality drain. When it gets to 0%, my experience rate cuts in half. Still getting experience is not = to getting the same experience. So because I happen to play a lot in a few days, I should have my time count for less after a certain point? You've gone back to the normal rate. It isn't cut in half. The mechanic was geared to people who have limited time to play and quite honestly it takes forever for vitality to drop to zero. No there isn't some Lore reason for it and quite honestly I never took notice of it. It's been a complete and utter non-issue even after read about it. There is no "double xp". That is the normal amount of xp most people in the game make. If I happen to play to much over a few days, my experience is cut in half, I am not returning to "normal". "Double xp" is just to make people feel good about it. "Normal" is what you well...normally get. The supposed double xp is the normal xp, and when that runs out, you are getting half of the normal amount of xp. <hr></blockquote><massive snip></div>We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Both of us are arguing from different axioms and I know I'm not going to budge from mine. I accept the mechanic as it has been described in the game documentation and the tooltips. You don't. That's fine, but it leaves us no room to actually debate the issue.I'm dropping this. There was a lot more material in the op's post that still merits discussion.</blockquote></blockquote></div>

Ciaqu

08-30-2006, 04:34 AM

<blockquote><hr>Feltrak wrote:<div></div>For an EVEN BETTER experience, take the actual boat trip offered by the bell!<hr></blockquote>Does that still exist?

Kyriel

08-30-2006, 01:57 PM

<DIV>oh my freekin geez.. I would read this thread if it wernt for all the green blue purple yellow colors... AHHHH :smileysad:</DIV>

Novusod

09-04-2006, 05:12 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Lairdragna wrote:Eliminate bells, any travel between continents is by actual boat ride or a 60 minute black screen to simulate the time lost in transit (roughly one hour earth time equals one norrathian day)<div></div><hr></blockquote>What if instead of a black screen for hour you zone into a scalable instanced zone on a boat where you have to battle random sea monsters that con to your level for an hour. Maybe even add in heroic and epic instances of this type of travel.</div>

Lairdragna

09-05-2006, 04:59 AM

Honestly Novu I don;t care what they do, I started this thread as a joke for the people who claim everything is too fast or too easy. I think things are too slow and maybe a little too easy. I don't mind having to fight hard [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] mobs, I just don't want to camp a spawn spot for hours on end to fight a joke mob for example. Let me do what needs to be done, make it a real challenge, but their is no challenge to time sinks. All time sinks do is slow down your play so they can get away with developing less content.<div></div>

Drift3r

09-05-2006, 08:43 AM

<div></div>Wait so why aren't you people playing EQ1 if gameplay is so important and EQ1 so much better ? Reroll a character on a server there and don't accept any hand me downs, cash, etc.... Why are you even playing EQ2 if that boring style of game play is so appealing ? Seriously at a certian point and time posts like this one when you think about it go beyond reason and the standarded whining you see on these forums. You want a grind ? Play EQ1, or lineage 2 as they have all the grind you could ask for and then some. Or as someone else stated you could voluntarily do all the things you've asked for by doing it yourself. Why have a dev put it in the game for you to begin with when you can do almost everything you've asked for and then some to give yourself a challenge. Again this is nothing more then a whine IMHO as you wont truely take the pro-active steps to even enforce that style of gameplay onto yourself as you could of already done before posting and instead want the devs to force it onto everyone else that also pays to play this game. <div></div>Message Edited by Drift3r on 09-04-2006 09:45 PM

Drift3r

09-05-2006, 08:51 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>MexStrat wrote:Here is an idea for total immersion.If you die. you don't get an option to revive. You have to lay there and hope someone comes along to raise you. Don't bother trying to scream out for a rez(dead can't talk) <div></div><hr></blockquote><sarcasm>That is lame....true immersion means you delete your character and cancel your account. In real life people don't come back from the dead so unless you can find a rezzer within 1 hour of your demise you should have to delete you character or have it deleted for you. Perma death is the true dividing line between care bears and the manly hardcore players with 12 hours to spare.</sarcasm></div>