Future of Deathtoll.....

[Sute]

<div></div><div>So, a question was asked at Fanfaire. If this is indeed true and i have no reason to doubt it.</div><div> </div><div><span>What does the future hold for Deathtoll?</span>The end item will change. Also the access quest to Deathtoll will have a significant change to where a percentage of raid members will have to have access.</div><div> </div><div>Please think this thru and change the mobs then? or something.</div>

[Yarginis]

A percentage of the raid having to have access is a horrible idea. That runs the ability of someone to decide to do something helpful for their guild and suprise them by getting deathtoll access.<div></div>

[vinterskugge]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Yargnit wrote:A percentage of the raid having to have access is a horrible idea. That runs the ability of someone to decide to do something helpful for their guild and suprise them by getting deathtoll access.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>How can someone do that?  Have you see what's required for it?</p><p>The change seems to be there to stop things happening like one person leaving their guild for another, and that guild suddenly getting access.  Each guild who wants to enter, needs to do the quest themselves.</p>

[Keldo]

Oh boy backflagging, my favorite thing from eq1 makes a stunning return in eq2!  On the heels of an expansion which is severely lacking in raid content, that just warms the heart.<div></div>

[MorgothTheTerrib]

<div></div><div></div><p>"The end item will change. Also the access quest to Deathtoll will have a significant change to where a percentage of raid members will have to have access."</p><p>This idea sounds fine to me. Something like 30% to 40% seems reasonable. We finally got access to DT and a decent amount of people got the update at the same time. With most guilds, this shouldn't be a problem. Besides, it does prevent people from leaving a guild and zoning other guilds in.</p><p>"That runs the ability of someone to decide to do something helpful for their guild and suprise them by getting deathtoll access."</p><p>What would really be surprising is if they could pull this off at all. Access requires killing dragons and farming from an epic zone (lotsa farming).</p><p>Message Edited by MorgothTheTerrible on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:29 PM</span></p>

[Dasein]

<div></div>There's raiding alliances on many servers that would work together to get as many guilds access to the zone. The game shouldn't discourage cooperative play.

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Yargnit wrote:A percentage of the raid having to have access is a horrible idea. That runs the ability of someone to decide to do something helpful for their guild and suprise them by getting deathtoll access.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>You mean like buying a flagged account on playerauctions, so he can surprise the guild by allowing them to raid there?  How else could it be possible to "surprise" your guild by getting them Deathtoll access?  It takes a full guild raid to defeat each of the four dragons required for access, how could they possibly be "surprised" about that?  Do you actually believe it is fair for an entire guild to gain access to Deathtoll because one person obtained access this way?</p><p>If at least 50 percent of your raid has a Deathtoll flag, that is the perfect compromise between concerns about backflagging and concerns about the ultimate end game zone of this expansion being gimped by problems related to only one person needing access.</p>

[Yarginis]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Yargnit wrote:A percentage of the raid having to have access is a horrible idea. That runs the ability of someone to decide to do something helpful for their guild and suprise them by getting deathtoll access.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>You mean like buying a flagged account on playerauctions, so he can surprise the guild by allowing them to raid there?  How else could it be possible to "surprise" your guild by getting them Deathtoll access?  It takes a full guild raid to defeat each of the four dragons required for access, how could they possibly be "surprised" about that?  Do you actually believe it is fair for an entire guild to gain access to Deathtoll because one person obtained access this way?</p><p>If at least 50 percent of your raid has a Deathtoll flag, that is the perfect compromise between concerns about backflagging and concerns about the ultimate end game zone of this expansion being gimped by problems related to only one person needing access.</p><hr></blockquote>No, like raiding the contested dragons with friends from other guilds when they are doing it. For example someone who really wanted to have it be a suprise could join a different group for each of the 4 dragon kills, then noone else even know's they've completed deathtoll access. Something like that would require a lot of work on the part of the single person to do so in secrecy, this would ruin any benefit of putting such an effort in. Plus it's already hard enough to get in there unless you are the top guild on the server, no need to make it even harder.</span></div>

[FlintAH]

If your guild cant get the access for enough of its members I doubt they could do much but die once they got in.<div></div>

[Zoren Northwood]

<div></div><p><em>If your guild cant get the access for enough of its members I doubt they could do much but die once they got in.</em></p><p>Remind me what the ability to  mobilize for contested mobs has to do with the ability to kill instanced raid mobs?</p><p>Message Edited by Zoren Northwood on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:57 PM</span></p>

[Vandak]

<div></div>the mobs need to be made level 78 , kos needs a djinn master

[FlintAH]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zoren Northwood wrote:<div></div><p><em>If your guild cant get the access for enough of its members I doubt they could do much but die once they got in.</em></p><p>Remind me what the ability to  mobilize for contested mobs has to do with the ability to kill instanced raid mobs?</p><p>Message Edited by Zoren Northwood on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:57 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I was referring to killing the mobs when you got to them.</div>

[Zoren Northwood]

Yes, but given that the access quest currently requires a contested raid mob, it's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility that only a few members of a certain guild or alliance would get the Harla Dar update when she spawns.  It's not necessarily likely, but it's not impossible by any stretch given the mechanics of this access quest.  The whole notion of basing instance access on a 6-day contested spawn is just awful.   <div></div>

[Gaige]

I think its a good change.  One person shouldn't be able to zone a guild into DT.  It should take 12 people to zone in a 24 person raid into DT.

[Aandien]

<DIV>How is what currently exists today different from DOF?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PP: Return required one person with access.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Djinn Master prism, required the entire raid to have access, but only via a key, which could be obtained trivially by kililng a single heroic mob with 6 people (with 1 person have PoS access in the group).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No one complained then about the "end-game" zones being attainable because of 1 person in your raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So whats the difference?</DIV>

[Pins]

<DIV>It's obvious why they're doing this.  1 person will no longer give access to a full raid, it's to make there seem like there's more content, even though there isn't.  Can't enter deathtoll?  Go back and get access for the rest of your raid, hence more "content"!</DIV>

[joe2sgirl]

---How is what currently exists today different from DOF? PP: Return required one person with access. Djinn Master prism, required the entire raid to have access, but only via a key, which could be obtained trivially by kililng a single heroic mob with 6 people (with 1 person have PoS access in the group). No one complained then about the "end-game" zones being attainable because of 1 person in your raid. So whats the difference?---^^^^Agreed

[GidionSWE]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AncientElster wrote:<BR> <DIV>How is what currently exists today different from DOF?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PP: Return required one person with access.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Djinn Master prism, required the entire raid to have access, but only via a key, which could be obtained trivially by kililng a single heroic mob with 6 people (with 1 person have PoS access in the group).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No one complained then about the "end-game" zones being attainable because of 1 person in your raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So whats the difference?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>the difference is you need to kill contesteds here. And deathtoll is designed only for the guilds with the resources to kill those contesteds and complete the acces quest. </P><p>Message Edited by GidionSWE on <span class=date_text>04-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:25 PM</span>

[Yarginis]

The problem is, there are likely many guild out there who <b>could</b> handle deathtoll, or at least make progress inside there, but are unable to because of the contested setup. This not only restricts enterence based of the ability of the guild to kill a mob, but the ability of a guild to quickly field a raidforce at any random time of the day with little notice. Am I able to pop online at 6am if I hear Harla Darr is up so I can get that part of my access done? Yes. Are many other people from my raidforce, probalby not. However several raidforces could put their people together to do so, making it very concievable that only a handful of people in your guild could have worked through the entire access quest. Out first visit to PPR was like this, 1 guildmember had raided the dragons with some friends and completed them that way. Then a couple weeks later the rest of the alliance got around to killing them to complete access for the majority of us. I see it as extremely likely that within the next month or so, there will be several raid forces in such a situation now that the initial top raid guilds have all completed their access. It's already hard enough to get access with the contested mob requirements, making it even harder by restricting it to guilds able to gather 24 people at a moments notice 24/7 is beyond rediculous. <div></div>

[Reposa]

I honestly hope they make it so everyone needs access to zone in to DT.  Something like that really sets one guild apart from another.  As is stands now, anyone who finished the quest can stand on Dreadnever and zone in ANY guild ANY time they want.. talk about a money maker eh? A certian % would be fine.. like 1 out of every 4 people need the quest done, or one person per group, or something, but I really don't like the idea (and never have) of one person being able to zone in a whole guild... <div></div>

[GidionSWE]

<P>The thing is they want to have good loot in DT and therefor it has to be rare... hence the acces quest requiring u to kill contested mobs so that only 1 or a few guilds / server can get acces there.</P> <P>edited to add: and yes i sorta like the requirement to have a % of the guild done the acces quest...just dont think it should be very high...1 / group sounds like a good number. </P><p>Message Edited by GidionSWE on <span class=date_text>04-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:52 AM</span>

[Shakir10]

<DIV>If this change does go in, you people in guilds who are already having a hard time getting those contested are gonna have an even harder time. The reason is because those end game guilds who CAN do it will NEED to go kill that stuff again for more of their guild members. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they do require a percentage of a raid force to have something for access, hopefully it is handles like the Djin master prism where you can get your guildies into an area where they can kill some mob for an item that will get them in. </DIV>

[Aandien]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GidionSWE wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>the difference is you need to kill contesteds here. And deathtoll is designed only for the guilds with the resources to kill those contesteds and complete the acces quest. </P> <P>Message Edited by GidionSWE on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:25 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I would argue PP:R was only for guilds with the resources to kill contested in DOF as well.  If you could kill Critkna (essentially the first fight), then you were capable of killing any of the contested in DOF.</P> <P>In addition, since Deathtoll is an instance, and not a contested zone -- and since instances do not require at all, any sort of spur-of-the-minute decisions (ie, they can be maticulously planned), I will also argue that indeed the content itself inside Deathtoll is *NOT* designed for guilds with the resources that can kill contested and very likely a good percentage of that content is within the grasp of a good majority of guilds, especially considering, that nearly all of it, has already been beaten by the guilds with access (<-- read that is, this isn't the end-game zone of this expansion, or at least I hope it isn't and the new raid zones coming out will prove more challenging).</P>

[HellRaiserXX]

Arirang on Everfrost beat it first time in.  They said the access was harder than the zone itself.  Hopefully the revamp includes an increase in difficulty.

[GidionSWE]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AncientElster wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GidionSWE wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>the difference is you need to kill contesteds here. And deathtoll is designed only for the guilds with the resources to kill those contesteds and complete the acces quest.</P> <P>Message Edited by GidionSWE on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>03:25 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I would argue PP:R was only for guilds with the resources to kill contested in DOF as well.  If you could kill Critkna (essentially the first fight), then you were capable of killing any of the contested in DOF.</P> <P>In addition, since Deathtoll is an instance, and not a contested zone -- and since instances do not require at all, any sort of spur-of-the-minute decisions (ie, they can be maticulously planned), I will also argue that indeed the content itself inside Deathtoll is *NOT* designed for guilds with the resources that can kill contested and very likely a good percentage of that content is within the grasp of a good majority of guilds, especially considering, that nearly all of it, has already been beaten by the guilds with access (<-- read that is, this isn't the end-game zone of this expansion, or at least I hope it isn't and the new raid zones coming out will prove more challenging).</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The quality of the loot is based on how rare it is...The rareness can come from either makin the mob that drops it very rare or makin the mob very hard or both.</P> <P>Clearly deathtolls loot is designed with the fact that mobs in there will be very rarely seen...maybe just once / week / server ... hence it can drop good stuff ... if instead the mobs in DT got visited  by every raid guild and more on the server every week the loot couldnt be as good.</P>

[Riversideblues]

<div><blockquote><hr>Reposado wrote:I honestly hope they make it so everyone needs access to zone in to DT.  Something like that really sets one guild apart from another.  As is stands now, anyone who finished the quest can stand on Dreadnever and zone in ANY guild ANY time they want.. talk about a money maker eh? A certian % would be fine.. like 1 out of every 4 people need the quest done, or one person per group, or something, but I really don't like the idea (and never have) of one person being able to zone in a whole guild... <div></div><hr></blockquote>i don't mind the idea of having a percent, or like 1/2 per group with it, but 100% really doesn't work in this case considering not everyone was/is able to attend every dragon kill <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. and a big LOL to the poster who said they're doing this to go back and increase the content, i liked that one hehe.<img src="http://images6.theimagehosting.com/kiwis.gif"></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HellRaiserXX wrote:<BR> Arirang on Everfrost beat it first time in.  They said the access was harder than the zone itself.  Hopefully the revamp includes an increase in difficulty.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I was under the impression that only Dissolution had beat Tarinax.<BR>

[Ratty31]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HellRaiserXX wrote:<BR> Arirang on Everfrost beat it first time in.  They said the access was harder than the zone itself.  Hopefully the revamp includes an increase in difficulty.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I was under the impression that only Dissolution had beat Tarinax.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think a few guilds have.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ratty31 wrote:<BR> <BR>I think a few guilds have.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah I saw your update after the fact.<BR>

[Graven55]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR SIZE=1> GidionSWE wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>the difference is you need to kill contesteds here. And deathtoll is designed only for the guilds with the resources to kill those contesteds and complete the acces quest.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by GidionSWE on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>03:25 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>What resources would those be?  Are you telling me that Sony finally designed a zone that was only defeatable if it was between the hours of midnight and 3:30PM on a Monday thru Thursday night in your timezone?  Or is it only defeatable if you can submit a valid college ID or unemployment slip to Sony?  Or is the mob only defeatable if you can prove that you have been living in your parent's basement for at least 1 year?<BR> <DIV>The ability to kill instanced mobs successfuly should have Nothing to do with the amount of time you have to play EQ, and everything to do with your guild's ability to adapt, strategize, and execute a plan.  I have never, and never will understand the glory of being the only guild still awake when the mob spawns.  How does that make you better?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make the zone percentage keyed, that's fine, if you're going to change the stupid quest to an instance where the playing field is level for all guilds of equal ability (not playtime).  If you wanted it to be an instanced zone, it should be an instanced access quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're going to make it even harder to get into the zone for people with real lives outside of EQ then make the zone an extra xpac that we can choose to pay for if we want to.  The idea that I paid for a zone that I'll never get to see because I'm not willing to jeapordize my job, or [Removed for Content] my family off to get there frankly makes me sick.  At least if you leave it as it is there is a chance that one of the more ambitious people in our guild can get him or herself invited along on a raid with one of the so called "uber" guilds and get us in.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Don't give me the crap about commitment or whatever.  It's a game, we all payed the same amount for it, we all pay the same monthly fee...we should all have an equal chance at getting into the zones.  There's already contested content all over the expansion, keep it that way, that's fine, I know some people think it's fun to race to mobs.  Just don't take a whole zone away from a large portion of the raiding population in order to keep those few people happy.</DIV></DIV>

[Gimmiso]

IMO everyone should have to have completed Deathtoll Access to get in.I also want to know why people spend sooo much time worrying about Deathtoll.... I heard that Deathtoll isn't even the end content for KoS. Like there is more that will be added soon.... I could be wrong, but lots of people seem to think there is more to come for KoS....don't get me wrong, doing the access and getting into Deathtoll is not something you want to miss....but imo, Deathtoll is the like the Kindergarten of KoS End content and Tarinax is just the quiet kid that sits in the back of the room eating glue and getting stupider by the minute. I would be more worried about the little weasly kid that stealths around stealing all your cookies and juice, yet I never see anyone mention him. Well, you would only understand that if you have done Deathtoll. No real point here, just chippin in!<div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gimmisome wrote:<BR>IMO everyone should have to have completed Deathtoll Access to get in.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That would suck.  Backflagging for the lose.  It needs to be 50% or less.  3 people per group, max.<BR>

[Gaellen]

<blockquote><hr>Gimmisome wrote:I also want to know why people spend sooo much time worrying about Deathtoll.... <hr></blockquote>Not a whole lot else to do.   <div></div>

[Gimmiso]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Gimmisome wrote:IMO everyone should have to have completed Deathtoll Access to get in. <hr> </blockquote>That would suck.  Backflagging for the lose.  It needs to be 50% or less.  3 people per group, max.<hr></blockquote><i><font color="#6633ff">not saying it would be fun, I just think alot of people get off easy without having to do quests but still get the End Mobs and all the loots....either it needs access or it doesn't.... the Devs are making it all so gray.</font><font color="#6633ff"></font><font color="#6633ff"></font><font color="#6633ff">besides, going to Deathtoll and Killing Tarinax without doing the Claymore Series would be like going to GodKing without pris 2.0 quests just to kill the mob...it's kinda pointless.</font></i><hr>Gaellen Wrote:Not a whole lot else to do.   <hr size="2" width="100%"><i><font color="#6633ff">well yeah, so if everyone had to do the access to Deathtoll it would give you something to do....maybe there isn't a lack of content in KoS.... maybe its just content that can be skipped.... /gasp<font color="#00cc66">oh, and no offense to Sutexi, (cause he lubs a gnome that I lub too, so we are friends by associated gnome lubbin even though I don't know him) but, is the future of Deathtoll really that important?.... you haven't even seen the current Deathtoll.</font><font color="#00cc66"></font><font color="#00cc66">/hands over a cabbage</font></font></i></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Gimmisome on <span class=date_text>04-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:04 PM</span>

[Ratty31]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaellen wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gimmisome wrote:<BR><BR>I also want to know why people spend sooo much time worrying about Deathtoll.... <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not a whole lot else to do.   <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Only 5 named mobs, not that exciteing really.

[Gaellen]

<blockquote><hr>Ratty31 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Gaellen wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Gimmisome wrote:I also want to know why people spend sooo much time worrying about Deathtoll.... <hr> </blockquote>Not a whole lot else to do.   <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Only 5 named mobs, not that exciteing really.<hr></blockquote>Ascent == so boring it makes my hair bleed. Temple == pointless waste of a zone. Lab == once per week. Having something over that is probably why the majority of these posts are here and why it's such a hot issue when GMs show up and make you random for the mob. <div></div>

[GidionSWE]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Graven55 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR SIZE=1> GidionSWE wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>the difference is you need to kill contesteds here. And deathtoll is designed only for the guilds with the resources to kill those contesteds and complete the acces quest.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by GidionSWE on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>03:25 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>What resources would those be?  Are you telling me that Sony finally designed a zone that was only defeatable if it was between the hours of midnight and 3:30PM on a Monday thru Thursday night in your timezone?  Or is it only defeatable if you can submit a valid college ID or unemployment slip to Sony?  Or is the mob only defeatable if you can prove that you have been living in your parent's basement for at least 1 year?<BR> <DIV>The ability to kill instanced mobs successfuly should have Nothing to do with the amount of time you have to play EQ, and everything to do with your guild's ability to adapt, strategize, and execute a plan.  I have never, and never will understand the glory of being the only guild still awake when the mob spawns.  How does that make you better?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make the zone percentage keyed, that's fine, if you're going to change the stupid quest to an instance where the playing field is level for all guilds of equal ability (not playtime).  If you wanted it to be an instanced zone, it should be an instanced access quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're going to make it even harder to get into the zone for people with real lives outside of EQ then make the zone an extra xpac that we can choose to pay for if we want to.  The idea that I paid for a zone that I'll never get to see because I'm not willing to jeapordize my job, or [Removed for Content] my family off to get there frankly makes me sick.  At least if you leave it as it is there is a chance that one of the more ambitious people in our guild can get him or herself invited along on a raid with one of the so called "uber" guilds and get us in.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Don't give me the crap about commitment or whatever.  It's a game, we all payed the same amount for it, we all pay the same monthly fee...we should all have an equal chance at getting into the zones.  There's already contested content all over the expansion, keep it that way, that's fine, I know some people think it's fun to race to mobs.  Just don't take a whole zone away from a large portion of the raiding population in order to keep those few people happy.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The thing is to make loot good, it has to be rare... </P> <P>the fact that you have to kill contesteds to acces this zone is a way to make drops in there more rare...its as simple as that. </P> <P>Sure theres other ways to keep stuff rare, increasing the reentry/repop timer is one, make mobs extremely hard is another.. just for this perticular zone soe decided to make it rare by makin the acces quest the way it is.</P> <P>and seriously the "i pay as much as u" comment is just lame... as in real life... the more work and time u spend the greater return. Dont expect to be handed everything on a silver platter.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Zoren Northwood]

<i>the fact that you have to kill contesteds to acces this zone is a way to make drops in there more rare...its as simple as that. </i>That's true.  It's also a way to turn off a lot of customers who don't have the gaming time to compete for contested mobs -- but do have the gaming time to do something longer, slower, more methodical (like Fountain of Life access).  I don't mind a long, difficult, even BORING access quest.  I mind an access quest that (a) others can block me from completing for the foreseeable future and (b) requires us to compete in an arena (mobilization) that isn't appropriate for our gaming schedules in roder to access content (instanced raid) that fits perfectly into our gaming schedules. <div></div>

[Gimmiso]

<div><blockquote><hr>GidionSWE wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr><div> <div>The ability to kill instanced mobs successfuly should have Nothing to do with the amount of time you have to play EQ, and everything to do with your guild's ability to adapt, strategize, and execute a plan.  I have never, and never will understand the glory of being the only guild still awake when the mob spawns.  How does that make you better?</div> <div>It's a game, we all payed the same amount for it, we all pay the same monthly fee...we should all have an equal chance at getting into the zones.  There's already contested content all over the expansion, keep it that way, that's fine, I know some people think it's fun to race to mobs.  </div></div> <hr> </blockquote><hr></blockquote><font color="#6633ff">LOL! </font>"The ability to kill instanced mobs successfuly should have Nothing to do with the amount of time you have to play EQ, and everything to do with your guild's ability to adapt, strategize, and execute a plan."  <font color="#6633ff">Um, well, the more TIME you are online, the more you can develop your strategies and plans.</font>"we all payed the same amount for it, we all pay the same monthly fee...we should all have an equal chance at getting into the zones. "<font color="#6633ff">ah ha! so you are saying that money can buy anything and that price determines reward and I can come get a job with you and not do any work, but I can pay and get all the same benefits as you?  sweet, where do I sign up?I don't want to be rude, but it seems to me that you live in a special little bubble that is completely cut off from the real world.</font></div>

[Sute]

<P>I think the reason people talk about DT is because that is whats next in line for people to do on a weekly basis. Why should we not want to do DT, it might be boring or not exciting or whatever else...but its something new to do. I found the T5 instances boring but i was there every night helping my fellow guildies on.</P> <P>To be honest, *I* dont care about DT at all, harla dar or any contested mob in the game, i have never cared since the middle of T6, its just too much hassle and for the most part you get to deal with people at they very worst. Contested mobs/zones just bring out the worst in people who really are better than that. I try to stay clear of it, its not worth it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Next LU theres a new raid zone coming, hopefully its a good size one that we can do on a sunday or something like that. Then hopefully theres more just like it down the road. DT can sit at the very back of my mind as far as i'm concerned. Its just not worth the hassle, i dont care if it was the best loot ever in the game...for the hassle and how you have to deal with people who really are just "acting" nasty..its simply not worth it.</P>

[Graven55]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gimmisome wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GidionSWE wrote:<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>LOL! </FONT><BR><BR>"The ability to kill instanced mobs successfuly should have Nothing to do with the amount of time you have to play EQ, and everything to do with your guild's ability to adapt, strategize, and execute a plan." <BR><FONT color=#6633ff>Um, well, the more TIME you are online, the more you can develop your strategies and plans.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffff00>Nice attempt to misrepresent...time is a requirement, but there is a difference between a reasonable amount of time and having to keep a raid force on 24/7 just in case the quest mob you need should happen to pop.  I'm not saying the quests should take a couple hours, if I could progress 1 step a week on my deathtoll access I'd be happy.  At this point our guild will have to wait a few months until the other guilds get bored or T8 content is added because there's no way a guild that can't mobilize anytime will get this quest finished.  This is not skill, this is being able to sit with your thumb up your @$$ waiting for a mob to pop.  Cheers to you...you have time!  That makes you better than me, or more worthy?</FONT> <DIV><BR><BR>"we all payed the same amount for it, we all pay the same monthly fee...we should all have an equal chance at getting into the zones. "<BR><FONT color=#6633ff>ah ha! so you are saying that money can buy anything and that price determines reward and I can come get a job with you and not do any work, but I can pay and get all the same benefits as you?  sweet, where do I sign up?<BR><BR>I don't want to be rude, but it seems to me that you live in a special little bubble that is completely cut off from the real world.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#6633ff></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#6633ff><FONT color=#ffff00>No...I live in the real world...the people who can commit 8+ hours a day to playing a game don't live in the real world.  In the real world, I bought a product from Sony...I expect to be able to use it.  Again, I'm not asking for the zones to be handed on a silver platter, or for the content to be dumbed down.  I want a chance to even TRY.  Right now that chance is being denied because my guild has to compete with a bunch of losers who can sit at home 24/7 and be ready to raid at the spawn of a mob.  Sorry if  I want to be able to ever have a chance to even try some content before it is stale.....</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff><FONT color=#ffff00>Time is important, if you could blow through the game in a week it'd be dumb...but on the other hand, EQ isn't my job, I shouldn't have to play 40 hours a week to be able to get to the best zones.  Contested mobs were added to the game to let those of you who want to be "uber" have your [Removed for Content] contest.  Why does your [Removed for Content] contest have to interfere with any chance I have of getting to Deathtoll, an instanced zone?</FONT></FONT></P> <DIV><BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Haapy]

<P>My buddy and I bought ourselves electric guitars a few weeks back. He practices 4+ hrs a day, while I MAY look at it once a week or so. Since we both paid the same $$ for the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] things we'll be both equally good. I cant believe my buddy cant understand this!</P> <P> </P> <P>Another analogy:</P> <P> </P> <P>I bought a car, paid for it my $$, I expect to drive it. But I dont have time to study the driving manual, and my work hours leave only 1 hr to take the driving test before DVM closes. Gah! I cannot believe that life is so unfair that I have to compete with loosers that have no job, or live in parent's basements in line for my test. Only out of work bums can find time to drive!!! /cry</P> <P> </P> <P>The argument of "I paid for all the content, I should see it all no matter how much time I put in or what game style I choose" is stale and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Remember that soloers have paid as much as you, should they see inside of DT? Are people that play 3 hrs/week intitled to the same rewards as you just because they pay the same subscription? Just exactly WHERE do you propose we draw the line here? This thread topic been around since days of MUDs, nothing has changed and rewards are still given out by amount of effort and time you put in.</P><p>Message Edited by Haapy on <span class=date_text>04-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 PM</span>

[GidionSWE]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Graven55 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gimmisome wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GidionSWE wrote:<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>LOL! </FONT><BR><BR>"The ability to kill instanced mobs successfuly should have Nothing to do with the amount of time you have to play EQ, and everything to do with your guild's ability to adapt, strategize, and execute a plan." <BR><FONT color=#6633ff>Um, well, the more TIME you are online, the more you can develop your strategies and plans.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffff00>Nice attempt to misrepresent...time is a requirement, but there is a difference between a reasonable amount of time and having to keep a raid force on 24/7 just in case the quest mob you need should happen to pop.  I'm not saying the quests should take a couple hours, if I could progress 1 step a week on my deathtoll access I'd be happy.  At this point our guild will have to wait a few months until the other guilds get bored or T8 content is added because there's no way a guild that can't mobilize anytime will get this quest finished.  This is not skill, this is being able to sit with your thumb up your @$$ waiting for a mob to pop.  Cheers to you...you have time!  That makes you better than me, or more worthy?</FONT> <DIV><BR><BR>"we all payed the same amount for it, we all pay the same monthly fee...we should all have an equal chance at getting into the zones. "<BR><FONT color=#6633ff>ah ha! so you are saying that money can buy anything and that price determines reward and I can come get a job with you and not do any work, but I can pay and get all the same benefits as you?  sweet, where do I sign up?<BR><BR>I don't want to be rude, but it seems to me that you live in a special little bubble that is completely cut off from the real world.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#6633ff></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#6633ff><FONT color=#ffff00>No...I live in the real world...the people who can commit 8+ hours a day to playing a game don't live in the real world.  In the real world, I bought a product from Sony...I expect to be able to use it.  Again, I'm not asking for the zones to be handed on a silver platter, or for the content to be dumbed down.  I want a chance to even TRY.  Right now that chance is being denied because my guild has to compete with a bunch of losers who can sit at home 24/7 and be ready to raid at the spawn of a mob.  Sorry if  I want to be able to ever have a chance to even try some content before it is stale.....</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff><FONT color=#ffff00>Time is important, if you could blow through the game in a week it'd be dumb...but on the other hand, EQ isn't my job, I shouldn't have to play 40 hours a week to be able to get to the best zones.  Contested mobs were added to the game to let those of you who want to be "uber" have your [Removed for Content] contest.  Why does your [Removed for Content] contest have to interfere with any chance I have of getting to Deathtoll, an instanced zone?</FONT></FONT></P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>its a new (for eq2) type of block soe incorporated into the game...like any other blocker in the game its their to keep the content that lies past the block more rare.</P> <P>just like you have to be a high level tradeskiller to get bone clasped girdle, u have to kill harla dar to get dt acces.</P> <P>I will likely never level past lvl 9 tradeskiller. I just find it incredibly boring and time consuming and to me its not worth doing all that to get the girdle. Do i whine and cry that they should remove the TSing part of it? no. Cause i realize its there only for the people with the will to get their toon to the required TS level so the girdle can be as good as it is. </P> <P>for the same reason dt acces requires u to kill harla dar. Dont whine and cry about it. Understand that the devs designed it with the intention that only the people with the will to get that kill can enter so the loot can be as good as it is. If you really want to get acces then do what it takes to get it, either by pushing your guild or joining a guild with the capability to kill harla.</P> <P>btw: i like that analogy haapy :p</P>

[Gimmiso]

<div><blockquote><hr> <blockquote><font color="#ffff00">Nice attempt to misrepresent...time is a requirement, but there is a difference between a reasonable amount of time and having to keep a raid force on 24/7 just in case the quest mob you need should happen to pop.  I'm not saying the quests should take a couple hours, if I could progress 1 step a week on my deathtoll access I'd be happy. </font></blockquote> <blockquote> <p><font color="#6633ff"><font color="#ffff00">No...I live in the real world...the people who can commit 8+ hours a day to playing a game don't live in the real world.  I</font></font></p></blockquote><hr></blockquote>yeah! I hate working too! I wish I could play games all day. Raid hours are 6pm central - 12 am central.</div>

[Zoren Northwood]

<P><EM>My buddy and I bought ourselves electric guitars a few weeks back. He practices 4+ hrs a day, while I MAY look at it once a week or so. Since we both paid the same $$ for the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] things we'll be both equally good. I cant believe my buddy cant understand this!</EM></P> <P><EM>Another analogy:</EM></P> <P><EM>I bought a car, paid for it my $$, I expect to drive it. But I dont have time to study the driving manual, and my work hours leave only 1 hr to take the driving test before DVM closes. Gah! I cannot believe that life is so unfair that I have to compete with loosers that have no job, or live in parent's basements in line for my test. Only out of work bums can find time to drive!!! /cry</EM></P> <P><EM>The argument of "I paid for all the content, I should see it all no matter how much time I put in or what game style I choose" is stale and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Remember that soloers have paid as much as you, should they see inside of DT? Are people that play 3 hrs/week intitled to the same rewards as you just because they pay the same subscription? Just exactly WHERE do you propose we draw the line here? This thread topic been around since days of MUDs, nothing has changed and rewards are still given out by amount of effort and time you put in.</EM></P> <P>I agree with you that the "I paid good money" argument is a poor one, but your analogies are off.  The car analogy, for example, would be more apt if the air conditioning only worked for about an hour a week, and we both wanted to feel the cool draft...or something like that.</P> <P>The point you're missing is that no one is arguing that Deathtoll access should require less effort or time.  They're arguing that it should require a different sort of effort and time -- specifically, effort and time that can be provided at whatever time of day is most convenient for a player and his guild, not effort and time that must be spent simply "being available" in case the mob happens to pop.  Do you see the massive difference?</P>

[Fenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HellRaiserXX wrote:<BR> Arirang on Everfrost beat it first time in.  They said the access was harder than the zone itself.  Hopefully the revamp includes an increase in difficulty.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It seems that there is a slight misunderstanding. We did not beat deathtoll yet. =/<BR>

[Haapy]

<P>Car analogy is for people to show that most things in RL do not exist to provide you with opportunity to utilize them at any time of your choosing (DMV hours in this case). It is your responsibility to arrange your schedule to take the driving test, no one is going to be at the DMV office at midnight waiting on you, just because it is "convenient".</P> <P>In eq1 at pop release, how long did RZ lived on average? 4 hrs? A year later triggers were up for several days, sometimes weeks. You are complaining that you cannot see everything in the expansion in first 2 months. I am betting that in a year you will be able to easily waltz through and get the access at a convenient time for your guild. You do have the opportunity that you are paying for, no one ever said that you should have instant access to all the content at time of purchase.</P>

[Snarks]

i believe only 2 guilds have finished deathtoll access and killed tarinax, in that order <div></div>

[Zoren Northwood]

<P><EM>You are complaining that you cannot see everything in the expansion in first 2 months. I am betting that in a year you will be able to easily waltz through and get the access at a convenient time for your guild. You do have the opportunity that you are paying for, no one ever said that you should have instant access to all the content at time of purchase.</EM></P> <P>This only works if the level cap doesn't keep rising every six months.</P>

[SageGaspar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<div>It's obvious why they're doing this.  1 person will no longer give access to a full raid, it's to make there seem like there's more content, even though there isn't.  Can't enter deathtoll?  Go back and get access for the rest of your raid, hence more "content"!</div><hr></blockquote>Bingo.</div>

[Ddrak]

The problem is it won't solve any of the "content" issues. Obviously, the first guild on any server to get Deathtoll access will have a good percentage of people flagged. The problem comes up with the fact you have 3 contested dragons on long spawn timers that are required for the access and all drop decent enough loot to make them worth farming for quite some time.So, with the server merges and 10+ "raiding" guilds (ranging from hardcore to 3ish times a week) on each server, the pressure on the contested dragons becomes completely ridiculous. There's already plenty enough drama between the first and second guilds on servers, and the third guilds are grasping for a shot at contested that's all too rare. The idea that the next guilds will be able to down Harla, Gore or Talendor in any reasonable time before the next expansion is just beyond a joke.What is going to happen is deathtoll will be completely inaccessible to guilds that are capable enough to go there and raid but aren't in the top two or three that are zealous enough to be able to log on and take down the contested spawns at a non-planned date or time. Personally I just don't want to get into the retardedness that comes of many guilds fighting to the same contested named and many others are in the same predicament.With the current implementation (1 person required to zone a raid in), a compromise could be reached with the higher tier guilds to allow some members to "tag along" for the kill and reduce the pressure on those contested mobs. To require a significant percentage of the raid is just forcing guilds to fight against each other over and over again or give up on content entirely.It's not that paying for the game gives you any right to content, it's that Sony should really consider what they are doing when they put contested mobs with a decent loot table on a long spawn timer and them make them part of access quests. The issue was difficult enough in EQ1 and Planes of Power which introduced contested bottlenecks on a 3 day timer for 60-100 person guilds. In EQ2 having a 6 day timer for 24 person guilds with twice the server populations is just creating a pressure cooker dying to explode.If this change goes ahead, I see a lot of griefing on contesteds coming to light as the mid-level raiding guilds start becoming bottlenecked at this content. You think it's bad having 2 or 3 guilds racing through ToS to get to Harla - wait until you have 10 frustrated guilds all wanting that same mob.Dd