- The reuse timer for Deathtoll now sets as soon as you enter. [Archive]

espmrred

04-04-2006, 10:59 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ishboozor wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>HellRaiserXX wrote:<div></div>Then what Meethos said is the logical fix. If the first 6 mobs or whatever don't drop anything than there is no reason to farm them. I am wondering if it is a matter of coding where they can't remove the loot from 1 group of mobs and it not affect every other group with that same type of mob in it. Example if the remove loot from a Scaleborn Reaver it would remove all loot from any Reaver in the zone. If thats the case they should completely change the name and type of the mobs before the firewall and make them drop nothing.<hr></blockquote>I am almost positive they cannot remove the drop from one mob in the zone witout a ton of effort. My reasoning is the labratory of lord vyemm and to a lesser degree halls of fate. I assume they couldnt remove the relic drops from the solo drakes that spawned from stepping on the egg shells so you will notice that now they no longer spawn in either zone.<hr></blockquote><p>Thus, you simply alter the names of those first half dozen or so mobs from the rest of the mobs like them in the zone. SOE is then free to change those mobs loot table, while leaveing the rest of the mobs in the zone completly unaffected. -- Now that idea, does require a little bit more work on SOE's part than either a) leaving the relic at these mobs or b) removing relic from all of those type mobs in the zone --- but I think it's an option that will make 95% of the playerbase happy.</p>

Targ

04-04-2006, 11:42 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote: Conspiracy theory: This is SOE's new way to show how much we hate players--first, we tell them we did something that pisses them off. Then, we change the change and don't tell them until they're already [Removed for Content] off, so they have no choice but to be relieved (not true, of course).<hr></blockquote>There you have it confirmation that Blackguard is a part of the conspiracy. </div>

Kurizok

04-05-2006, 03:06 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>hoopde wrote:<div></div><p>Hey blackguard, people wouldnt be trying to hatch conspiracy theory's if there was enough content to keep us busy.</p><p>Hoopdee</p><p>PS is it ok to put a devs name in a post if you are replying to a post they made? the board police will let me see soon enough heh</p><hr></blockquote>QFE QFE

Blackguard

04-05-2006, 03:11 AM

Time to add some more confusion here. The release notes for tomorrow's hotfix appear to include the change to make the reuse timer for Deathtoll not initiate until after you pass through the fire. That means that there is a chance it did not make it into this morning's hotfix, so it may be safer to stay out of Deathtoll today if you need to avoid the lockout. hoopde: At this time, if you've done every quest, killed every mob, and conquered every zone in the game, I will comp your account. <div></div>

ChaosUndivided

04-05-2006, 03:15 AM

Kurizok

04-05-2006, 03:15 AM

hoop

04-05-2006, 05:53 AM

<div></div><div></div><p>I dont play this game to quest. I play this game to raid. If you gave ample content i wouldnt even be posting but since this expansion has nothing to offer to a raiding guild 5 nights a week i post and complain. See my post count its pretty low because i enjoyed this game, main would enjoyed if you havent noticed is past tense. It is not the fault of the who play this game that it is starting to suck. In each teir of rading there was enough to keep me busy playing the game and not [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing at you, but you see im [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing at you now so............</p><p>I'll start making a list of every instence that will con to my lvl 45 mystic or my 59 paladin or my 70 swash and i will run thru them. most of which i have prob done except for that new stuff that is grey to my main, because its added after i hit the lvl cap. so If you wanna give me a list of these zones ill run thru them on my spring break. deal?</p><p>**EDIT** I got one for you BG, ill make a list of all the raid contenct you have in this expansion and we will complete 85% hopefully more of the raid content a week. Ohh any that 10% that we might not complete will be the Outcast, thats right 1 mob is roughly 15% of your raid content, isnt that nice**EDIT** </p><p>As for your quest comment, which is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] being that no1 in the game has finished every quest and probly never will. Why dont you go do things that you do in your free time that are not fun for you. I do not fing them entertaining. I lost intrest when i had 6 differnt book quests in CT that were all the same exact thing except that the mobs were switched aroung and that was when i was lvl 43 over a year and 4 months ago.</p><p>I know Why your never bored at work, you havr too much fun finding out who going to freakin Fan Fair, instead of trying to save face with you high end raiding community. You, Blackguard are the EQ2 community rep arent you?</p><p>The saddest part about this is that i WANT to play and enjoy your game as many other high end raiders do also, its just that the EQ2 team is making it very difficult.</p><p>Hoopdee 70 swash</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by hoopde on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:14 PM</span></p>

Ishbu

04-05-2006, 06:08 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:Time to add some more confusion here. The release notes for tomorrow's hotfix appear to include the change to make the reuse timer for Deathtoll not initiate until after you pass through the fire. That means that there is a chance it did not make it into this morning's hotfix, so it may be safer to stay out of Deathtoll today if you need to avoid the lockout.hoopde: At this time, if you've done every quest, killed every mob, and conquered every zone in the game, I will comp your account.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>PLEASE. Last LU i seem to remember at least 10 new solo quests added to the game. I dare you to find me ONE person who has ever completed every solo quest in the world. I am positive there isnt any. However; there are people who have completed every raid quest in the game. Why the hell should ONLY new solo content be added? If there are 10 new solo quests, I feel we raiders deserve 5 little raids.</p><p>I am not saying that there should be no solo content, but there should be raid content as well. Answers about doing every quest are just a copout. </p>

Traldan Omegafyre

04-05-2006, 06:08 AM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:hoopde: At this time, if you've done every quest, killed every mob, and conquered every zone in the game, I will comp your account.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Touche!I'm sure, though, that he's REAL excited about going back to do those old-world named mobs deep in, say, Runnyeye that he missed.<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div>

Cuz

04-05-2006, 06:15 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>hoopde wrote:<div></div><p>I dont play this game to quest. I play this game to raid. If you gave ample content i wouldnt even be posting but since this expansion has nothing to offer to a raiding guild 5 nights a week i post and complain. See my post count its pretty low because i enjoyed this game, main would enjoyed if you havent noticed is past tense. It is not the fault of the who play this game that it is starting to suck. In each teir of rading there was enough to keep me busy playing the game and not [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing at you, but you see im [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing at you now so............</p><p>I'll start making a list of every instence that will con to my lvl 45 mystic or my 59 paladin or my 70 swash and i will run thru them. most of which i have prob done except for that new stuff that is grey to my main, because its added after i hit the lvl cap. so If you wanna give me a list of these zones ill run thru them on my spring break. deal?</p><p>As for your quest comment, which is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] being that no1 in the game has finished every quest and probly never will. Why dont you go do things that you do in your free time that are not fun for you. I do not fing them entertaining. I lost intrest when i had 6 differnt book quests in CT that were all the same exact thing except that the mobs were switched aroung and that was when i was lvl 43 over a year and 4 months ago.</p><p>I know Why your never bored at work, you havr too much fun finding out who going to freakin Fan Fair, instead of trying to save face with you high end raiding community. You, Blackguard are the EQ2 community rep arent you?</p><p>The saddest part about this is that i WANT to play and enjoy your game as many other high end raiders do also, its just that the EQ2 team is making it very difficult.</p><p>Hoopdee 70 swash</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>So you touch a fraction of the game and then complain there's not enough content?</p><p>You want the community manager to not work on fan fair, but content?</p>

Ishbu

04-05-2006, 06:22 AM

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Jenoy wrote:<p>So you touch a fraction of the game and then complain there's not enough content?</p><p>You want the community manager to not work on fan fair, but content?</p><hr></blockquote><p>Cut the crap, using that logic nobody has seen but a fraction of the content.</p><p>Lets talk about the community manager. You mean the one whose job is to relate to the community what is going on right? There have been countless posts about the lack of raid content and you know what he has communicated to us about it? NOTHING. So yes, he may as well start working on content because as far as me and the plenty of other people who enjoy my playstyle are concerned he isnt doing his job worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as it stands.</p>

hoop

04-05-2006, 06:24 AM

<div></div><p>you think BG making his <inset # here> post in the Fan Fair thread will make it any more fun? Maybe he should make an effort to assuage the raiding community. It could just be me but i think more people raid then are going to fan fair. 1 post would go a very long way.</p><p>hoopdee 70 swash</p>

Kurizok

04-05-2006, 06:28 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<div></div><p>So you touch a fraction of the game and then complain there's not enough content?</p><p>You want the community manager to not work on fan fair, but content?</p><hr></blockquote><p>Since when is raiding a fraction of the game? The complaint is that the T7 content is not even close to comparable to the past expansions, infact you'll find that it's in a slow decline.</p><p>He said:</p><p><em>your never bored at work, you havr too much fun finding out who going to freakin Fan Fair, instead of trying to save face with you high end raiding community</em></p><p>He's talking about saving face with the high end raiding community, ie communicating our concerns to the developers, ie doing his job - which he might be doing but it's not entirely apparent to the gamers. The last time I remember a community being this upset was SWG's Fan Faire, when the community manager decided he was going to leave after the first day.</p>

The-Fourm-Pirate

04-05-2006, 06:43 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ishboozor wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>HellRaiserXX wrote:<div></div>Then what Meethos said is the logical fix. If the first 6 mobs or whatever don't drop anything than there is no reason to farm them. I am wondering if it is a matter of coding where they can't remove the loot from 1 group of mobs and it not affect every other group with that same type of mob in it. Example if the remove loot from a Scaleborn Reaver it would remove all loot from any Reaver in the zone. If thats the case they should completely change the name and type of the mobs before the firewall and make them drop nothing.<hr></blockquote>I am almost positive they cannot remove the drop from one mob in the zone witout a ton of effort. My reasoning is the labratory of lord vyemm and to a lesser degree halls of fate. I assume they couldnt remove the relic drops from the solo drakes that spawned from stepping on the egg shells so you will notice that now they no longer spawn in either zone.<hr></blockquote>They can actually. They probably could just flick on the no credit for defeating this encounter tag on the first ones.

Ever-Befallen

04-05-2006, 09:22 AM

<div>You can add me to the list of getting bored of the game too.</div><div>KoS just doesn't have enough content, I can't find anything to do in my spare time in KoS, not too many solo quests and groups are a pain to find at times, thus I sit around doing nothing too much. Raid content, it's already been said what needs to be said, it lacks .. hard.</div>

Blackguard

04-05-2006, 09:45 AM

<div></div><div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>hoopde wrote:<div></div><p>you think BG making his <inset #="" here=""> post in the Fan Fair thread will make it any more fun? Maybe he should make an effort to assuage the raiding community. It could just be me but i think more people raid then are going to fan fair. 1 post would go a very long way.</inset></p><p>hoopdee 70 swash</p><hr></blockquote>Ah, you meant "raid content," not "content." I didn't initially get this since you didn't say it. As for high end raids, we are adding a couple soon. In Live Update #22, you get an instanced raid called Lyceum of Abhorrence. Likely in the next big update, you'll see another high level instanced raid, though the name escapes me (I'm assuming you mean instanced raids as opposed to contested raids, because there are quite a few contested already in KoS).And yes, there have been many discussions about instanced raid content in KoS in the office over the past few weeks. The results of those discussions can be seen in the Test Update #22 notes and more coming soon. There are quite a few mobs that require raids to defeat, but a lot of them are contested and as such are generally discounted when talking about high end content in the game.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Blackguard on <span class=date_text>04-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 PM</span>

Pitt Hammerfi

04-05-2006, 10:08 AM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Just curious Blackgaurd as to when you are going to put the x4 crystals on Ravasect Isle Bonemire back into the game ? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I saw them once 3 weeks ago then they were gone (never seen em since) it would be nice to experience that high level content <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:12 PM</span></p>

Ishbu

04-05-2006, 12:31 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Just curious Blackgaurd as to when you are going to put the x4 crystals on Ravasect Isle Bonemire back into the game ? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I saw them once 3 weeks ago then they were gone (never seen em since) it would be nice to experience that high level content <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:12 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Thats the sad thing is they consider that lots of content. THose mobs are 1 groupable and might as well be renamed heroic. They are killed as soon as they spawn by anyone that can field a group of lvl 70's.

Ishbu

04-05-2006, 12:52 PM

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Blackguard wrote:<p><span>Ah, you meant "raid content," not "content." I didn't initially get this since you didn't say it. As for high end raids, we are adding a couple soon. In Live Update #22, you get an instanced raid called Lyceum of Abhorrence. Likely in the next big update, you'll see another high level instanced raid, though the name escapes me (I'm assuming you mean instanced raids as opposed to contested raids, because there are quite a few contested already in KoS).And yes, there have been many discussions about instanced raid content in KoS in the office over the past few weeks. The results of those discussions can be seen in the Test Update #22 notes and more coming soon. There are quite a few mobs that require raids to defeat, but a lot of them are contested and as such are generally discounted when talking about high end content in the game.</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>What seems to repeatedly escape the developers is that 1 or 2 raid zones will do almost nothing to alleviate the massive amount of boredom. One being added 3 weeks from now with the possiblity of another in a month, how many of us will seriously last that long?</p><p>If the result of all this office discussion about raid instances resulted in nothing but 2 weekly or bi-weekly instances being added over the next 2 months you need to resume the conversations. The contested mobs can be cleaned up by a raid guild in under 2 hours, that is ALL of them. We need daily raid instances like we had in t5 period. As it stands right now I have absolutely NO REASON to log in 4-5 days of the week. Do you really want your entire raiding base having no reason to log in? This is not just hardcore raiders, this is everyone. Hell, the more casual raiders dont have a reason to log in 5-6 days a week because they do not have access to deathtoll yet and usually the more hardcore g uilds monopolize the contested mobs should they even bother spawning in that 7 day period.</p><p>Simply put if people dont have a reason to log in, people grow bored and cease to log in. When people cease logging in, they find other interestes. Soon people's other interests take over the nights they had a reason to log in and they cancell their account. Why are you deliberately trying to drive players from your game by refusing to add one room, one mob daily zones they can go into with 11-23 of their friends for a chance at some decent to good loot that only drops maybe once in 5-7 kills. </p><p>Frankly put I want to enjoy playing this game and continue to play for a long time to come, but I feel as if I am being shown the door because you refuse to provide any content or even acknowledge that there is a problem. (READ - your reply Mr. Blackguard did not acknowledge the problem, it merely tryed to say we had no valid point because of the one mb 2 zones we are getting and should have had from the launch of hte expansion. This truly was a slap in the face)</p>

Nemi

04-05-2006, 02:09 PM

<div></div><p><font color="#ffff00">This is not a hardcore raiding game, this is not a hardcore raiding game, shall I say it again? This is not a hardcore raiding game.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00"></font> </p><p><font color="#ffff00">Get it? If you would rather grind levels for 2 months of an expansion, grind key or access quests for a month - just to finally get to RAID the mob then perhaps Vanguard or EQ1 would be better for you.</font></p>

Ishbu

04-05-2006, 02:26 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Nemi wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffff00">This is not a hardcore raiding game, this is not a hardcore raiding game, shall I say it again? This is not a hardcore raiding game.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00"></font> </p><p><font color="#ffff00">Get it? If you would rather grind levels for 2 months of an expansion, grind key or access quests for a month - just to finally get to RAID the mob then perhaps Vanguard or EQ1 would be better for you.</font></p><hr></blockquote>Do you have any business on this thread at all? Have you even bothered reading any of the posts about lack of raid content? It applies to EVERY raid style, not just hardcore. Please run along, it is clear you have not brought any wits to the table.

joe2sgirl

04-05-2006, 02:33 PM

Ish summed it up pretty well i'd have to say <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i miss goin after drayek and hopein for that ring everyday <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> or zalak and hopein to finally get that stupid RGF......... that i never got <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />and... Nemi... maybe we... um... dont wanna?

Ualday

04-05-2006, 02:42 PM

Why are raiders complaining so much about content? It's pretty even this time around (not tipped heavily in raiders balance content quantity wise, perhaps that is their problem?). Each of the overland zones has solo (easy to find usually, near the entrance), group (past the solo mobs), and raid (further in, hurricanus/mutagenic outcast/princes/etc). Then for dungeons match for match there is a raider dungeon for what nonraiders get. Sanctum Scaleborn - Temple of Scale. Palace of the Awakened - Ascent of the Awakened. HoF - Lower HoF. With 2 more raider instances you'll be just about match for match with instanced group content too. <div></div>

Ellrin

04-05-2006, 02:43 PM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Nemi wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffff00">This is not a hardcore raiding game, this is not a hardcore raiding game, shall I say it again? This is not a hardcore raiding game.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00"></font> </p><p><font color="#ffff00">Get it? If you would rather grind levels for 2 months of an expansion, grind key or access quests for a month - just to finally get to RAID the mob then perhaps Vanguard or EQ1 would be better for you.</font></p><hr></blockquote>Well done, thanks for your input.</div><div> </div><div>Im guild leader of a guild that I would say is more a raid guild than anything else, but we certainly arent a Dissolution or an NPU.</div><div>We raid 3 or sometimes 4 days a week, far from hardcore.</div><div>In our 3 or 4 days we get stuff done, we are a capable guild. We quest and we raid and we enjoy doing both.</div><div>Currently we have labs and if we lucky a contested, the issues in this thread and others highlight a problem in T7 raiding from the most hardcore to the most casual.</div><div> </div><div>Get it?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>EDIT: Why in all these raid threads do people who obviously have no clue about what they are posting about continue to post?</div><p>Message Edited by Ellrin on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:46 PM</span></p>

Zoren Northwood

04-05-2006, 03:44 PM

<div>I'm curious. If KoS hadn't come out until May, and it had the extra two instanced raids (and maybe another, who knows) -- would everyone have been happy? Or would they be complaining about how boring T6 was becoming?</div>

HellRaiserXX

04-05-2006, 04:19 PM

<blockquote><hr>Ualdayan wrote:Why are raiders complaining so much about content? It's pretty even this time around (not tipped heavily in raiders balance content quantity wise, perhaps that is their problem?). Each of the overland zones has solo (easy to find usually, near the entrance), group (past the solo mobs), and raid (further in, hurricanus/mutagenic outcast/princes/etc). Then for dungeons match for match there is a raider dungeon for what nonraiders get. Sanctum Scaleborn - Temple of Scale. Palace of the Awakened - Ascent of the Awakened. HoF - Lower HoF. With 2 more raider instances you'll be just about match for match with instanced group content too. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Why? Because there isn't enough to do. From your post it seems pretty clear to me that you have not raided Temple of Scale or Ascent of the Awakened and I dont know what lower HoF is, but I am pretty positive there are no raid mobs anywhere in HoF. Now there is that crystal at the bottom, but I haven't heard any talk about it and don't know what it does. I actually personally have not gotten very far into T7 raiding, but it isn't hard to see that once we do we will run out of stuff to do and have to beat up on T6 stuff or something. ToS and Ascent are not something you raid every night for loot, they are like Silent City in T6, how many guilds raided Silent City after the 2nd FoL trip? I am betting not many. These zones are buggy, rarely drop anything good, and are downright boring. Not to mention the fact that they are contested and if you aren't a hardcore raiding guild it is doubtful you will ever get a crack at the mobs that you need to access Deathtoll.

Ishbu

04-05-2006, 04:25 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>HellRaiserXX wrote:ToS and Ascent are not something you raid every night for loot, they are like Silent City in T6, how many guilds raided Silent City after the 2nd FoL trip?<hr></blockquote>They are worse. Ascent is the worst zone EVER.

Serendia

04-05-2006, 04:49 PM

Hello all!I've read through this and many other threads on raiding and the lack thereof so I want to address some points I have seen.First and foremost, however, let me note that I have not raided in EQ2. I have raided excessively in EQ1 for 4+ years (first 2 years of EQ1 I didn't do a lot of raiding for various reasons). This shouldn't be too big an issue since I'm not arguing for or against any specific raids. Basically, flame me for my ideas, not my experience! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />"EQ2 is NOT a hardcore raiding game!"My question is: why not? Neither was EQ1 at its induction and now look at it. Furthermore, EQ2 seems to have MORE raid content than EQ1 did even 2 expansions in. Really, the ONLY thing I can think of to call this a "non-hardcore" raiding game is the fact that I haven't heard meantion any extensive "key" quests needed to get into the various raiding zones such as Veeshan's Peak and ToV (but I could be wrong, if there are such quests, then that supports my claim of 'why not' even more!).It also has a TON more epic quests that require raids than EQ1 did even up to and including PoP in my opinion. Most of EQ1 raids were designed to simply kill mob x get loot drops a,b,c, it was not nearly as quest intensive as EQ2 is now, and, thus, not nearly as many raid quests (only epics up to 2 expansions in come to mind).There are also a TON of more raids for lower level characters than there EVER WERE in Everquest 1 even >>>8? expansions in now."Content in new expansions should be balanced for solo/group/raid"My question is: why? Think of it this way. Once you are level 70 with 50 aa at the moment, you have two options: Craft (some are 70/70 so that negates this option) which is definitely not for everyone or do old quests with NO progress or awards associated with them that will help you in any way whatsoever. If neither looks appealing you can 1.) Play an alt (which many do), 2.) Raid.Once you have hit 70 with 50 or 70/70 with 50 there is no reason to keep grouping except to help someone out which eventually becomes moot because all your friends get 70 with 50 and there certainly is no real reason to solo.By <b>definition</b> the "hardcore" gamers will get through content faster, meaning there <b>should</b> be an overbalance for them in new expansions, period. I am no longer a hardcore gamer, but I will advocate this for that very reason. 2 expansions in I'm still on old world content, I simply don't get bored as quickly because I don't go through the stuff nearly as quickly."Add more raids!"This needs to be carefully done. In my opinion, PoP was both the greatest expansion in EQLive and the start of its downfall. Here's my point. New raids can be added without causing old raids to become obsolete. I firmly believe that new expansions should focus on adding more CHALLENGING raids. By definition, these can also be more REWARDING. However, PoP added to EQLive raids that would yield uncommonly good results without being nearly as challenging as previous content. Result? Old content was abandoned. If you want a game to continue to grow healthily and continuously feel like there is enough stuff for your players to do, do NOT obsolete old raids. If you feel they don't yield rewards or are too challenging, tweak them... don't simply add new raids that will make fixing them irrelevent. I want to be able to still go and kill KoS raid mobs and feel like I've been properly rewarded 2 more years from now.This, however, is tricky. The raids will become trivial simply because characters will become better. My saying is that they should not become trivial through ITEMIZATION but rather through character PROGRESSION. Because the characters are higher level and have more customizations than they did 2 years ago. THAT is why raids should go trivial. If I'm level 70 in a raiding guild 2 years from now and the average level is also level 70 then I want KOS raids to still be a viable and worthy option for me. Period.Although doing and maintaining this will be hard, it will be more rewarding from two standpoints: 1.) Old players can play new characters on new servers without feeling they need to "power level" to level 170 because thats where all the good content is. 2.) NEW PLAYERS WILL STILL BE COMING INTO THE GAME. The problem with EQLive is that its <b>too</b> geared to the level 70s. This isn't because thats where all the content is, its because, simply, thats the only content thats worth attempting (because PoP obsoleted EVERY expansion before it).In short: Please don't add content that obsoletes previous content beyond for levels higher than that content was intended for (Level 50 content should still look good for level 50 characters, it doens't need to look good for level 70 characters, though). I suck at grammar and spelling <p>Message Edited by Serendia on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:53 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Serendia on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:55 AM</span></p>

slyfer

04-05-2006, 04:51 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div><div></div><div><span><blockquote>Ah, you meant "raid content," not "content." I didn't initially get this since you didn't say it. As for high end raids, we are adding a couple soon. In Live Update #22, you get an instanced raid called Lyceum of Abhorrence.</span></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by Blackguard on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:52 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>If this new raid instance is a 6 day timer it just shows have no clue what people want.</p><p> </p><p>What is going to me the timer on this zone? I'm sure everyone wants to know this...</p>

Ualday

04-05-2006, 05:00 PM

Contested still means it's content that is there though. If you don't like contested though keep in mind it isn't a raid problem and is actually a game wide issue. (because those dungeons I listed are contested for groups too) If you want contested changed into instanced it would be better to take the stand of instancing group and raid content, because as much as some raiders dislike competition there are groups that dislike the competition in group dungeons too.<div></div>

Sanju

04-05-2006, 05:04 PM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>At this time, if you've done every quest, killed every mob, and conquered every zone in the game, I will comp your account....<span>Ah, you meant "raid content," not "content." I didn't initially get this since you didn't say it.</span><hr></blockquote>Give us a break, will you? It's this condescending, patronizing, and unconcerned attitude that's driving people away from the game. This is a thread about a RAID zone, like the numerous other threads about the lack of (T7) raid content in the game. Your claims of innocence because he didn't initially say "raid" content ring false. You might as well have flagged your comments with /sarcasm/ or /innocent smiley/ tags.Or maybe you're just <i>not listening</i> to what your playerbase is telling you, be they hardcore or casual raiders -- which would actually be worse. You're the community manager, right? Isn't it your job to listen to what the players are saying?<span><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<span>(I'm assuming you mean instanced raids as opposed to contested raids, because there are quite a few contested already in KoS).</span><span>There are quite a few mobs that require raids to defeat, but a lot of them are contested and as such are generally discounted when talking about high end content in the game.</span><hr></blockquote></span>Ok, let's count the number of contested raid mobs that we're all so stupidly discounting. (Which has also been discussed in length here: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=zones&message.id=8370" target="_blank">Raids, and where has all the content gone?</a> )Hurricanus, 3 Princes, Harla Dar, Mutagenic Outcast. These (except the Outcast) die as soon as they pop on most servers. That said ... they are also fun encounters. We need more like them.The other Temple of Scale mobs (Pantrilla, Vraskin, etc.) also die as soon as they pop, but they are also easy, with crappy loot. You have to kill trash to get to them, but at least it not annoying trash like ...Ascent of the Awakened (Talendor, Gorenaire, etc.) is Silent City 2.0. Raiders will not go here after Deathtoll access because the zone is mindnumbingly boring. Farming mobs with insane health for random drops to spawn names is not fun.The Deathless and the Ravasect isle cube. Give me a break. These mobs can and are killed with one group, as soon as they pop. That includes Ghazi. They are a joke.If ALL of these mobs popped on the same day, we could kill them all in a couple hours.</span></div>

espmrred

04-05-2006, 05:45 PM

<div></div><p>I’ve read this post a few times now, and didn’t initially want to post, however some of you have the blinders on so tight you can’t even take a step back to realize there are good things. Also, unless you’re NPU you shouldn’t be complaining about lack of raid content claiming you’ve beaten it all (as you haven’t beaten Mutagenic, and has anyone cleared Deathtoll (NPU you don’t count <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> you got in too early and probably faced a easier zone <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). That said, I think most in the raiding community would love to see more 18 hour lockout 1-2 named mobs zones like we had in T5 but here’s the funny thing, what did we ask for with t6 raids?</p><p>We wanted more SotL type raids, and SOE gave us them in DoF – yet you people found reasons to *****.There wasn’t enough contested mobs in DoF so SOE gave us a lot more “contested” content – yet you people found reasons to *****.There aren’t enough short lockout zones for us to do.</p><p>Do you see the circle?</p><p>Nothing these people do is EVER good enough for you guys. It’s always “not enough content” or “this mob’s too hard” or “this zone’s to easy” or “this item ______ [be it not worth the risk, is too uber for the risk, etc)”</p><p>A poster a few posts up asked the question:“<font color="#ffff00">I'm curious. If KoS hadn't come out until May, and it had the extra two instanced raids (and maybe another, who knows) -- would everyone have been happy? Or would they be complaining about how boring T6 was becoming?”</font> ---- I’m pretty sure, had we had to wait 2 more months for new raid content the same people would have been *****ing about lack of T6 raid content (I mean why not, we did it at the end of T5 about how there was no new content and all the t5 content was easy and boring)</p><p>In the end, voice your criticism, but do it in a constructive way, Elrohn did a wonderful job in his post “Raids, and where has all the content gone. Where is it…” however that post has been pulled off topic, pushed back on, with all of the different rants of people. </p><p>Also remember, T5 had a lot of stuff added after the fact, in T6 DMP and PoS weren’t working properly at the start, so give KoS a bit longer before you run around screaming that the sky is falling.</p><div></div>

The-Fourm-Pirate

04-05-2006, 07:07 PM

<blockquote><hr>Nemi wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffff00">This is not a hardcore raiding game, this is not a hardcore raiding game, shall I say it again? This is not a hardcore raiding game.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00"></font> </p><p><font color="#ffff00">Get it? If you would rather grind levels for 2 months of an expansion, grind key or access quests for a month - just to finally get to RAID the mob then perhaps Vanguard or EQ1 would be better for you.</font></p><hr></blockquote>If this is not a hardcore raiding game, why does PP:R exist? Do the devs expect casual raiders to beat it? Do they expect casual raiders to beat Pedastal of the Sky? Do they expect casual raiders to beat The Djinn Master's Palace?

HellRaiserXX

04-05-2006, 09:13 PM

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>espmrred wrote:<div></div><p>I’ve read this post a few times now, and didn’t initially want to post, however some of you have the blinders on so tight you can’t even take a step back to realize there are good things. Also, unless you’re NPU you shouldn’t be complaining about lack of raid content claiming you’ve beaten it all (as you haven’t beaten Mutagenic, and has anyone cleared Deathtoll (NPU you don’t count <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> you got in too early and probably faced a easier zone <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). That said, I think most in the raiding community would love to see more 18 hour lockout 1-2 named mobs zones like we had in T5 but here’s the funny thing, what did we ask for with t6 raids?</p><p>We wanted more SotL type raids, and SOE gave us them in DoF – yet you people found reasons to *****.There wasn’t enough contested mobs in DoF so SOE gave us a lot more “contested” content – yet you people found reasons to *****.There aren’t enough short lockout zones for us to do.</p><p>Do you see the circle?</p><p>Nothing these people do is EVER good enough for you guys. It’s always “not enough content” or “this mob’s too hard” or “this zone’s to easy” or “this item ______ [be it not worth the risk, is too uber for the risk, etc)”</p><p>A poster a few posts up asked the question:“<font color="#ffff00">I'm curious. If KoS hadn't come out until May, and it had the extra two instanced raids (and maybe another, who knows) -- would everyone have been happy? Or would they be complaining about how boring T6 was becoming?”</font> ---- I’m pretty sure, had we had to wait 2 more months for new raid content the same people would have been *****ing about lack of T6 raid content (I mean why not, we did it at the end of T5 about how there was no new content and all the t5 content was easy and boring)</p><p>In the end, voice your criticism, but do it in a constructive way, Elrohn did a wonderful job in his post “Raids, and where has all the content gone. Where is it…” however that post has been pulled off topic, pushed back on, with all of the different rants of people. </p><p>Also remember, T5 had a lot of stuff added after the fact, in T6 DMP and PoS weren’t working properly at the start, so give KoS a bit longer before you run around screaming that the sky is falling.</p><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Im sure by now that NPU has cleared Deathtoll "legitimately" and I know of quite a few other guilds with access who should clear it soon.</p><p>I dont think I can say I was ever out of things to raid in DoF. The content was much more challenging and you could easily spend 3hrs trying to take a contested (tree doesn't count lol). When we were locked out of all the raid zones, there was still Silent City and although we hated it, gotta get people their prismatics. In KoS, we haven't gotten fully into the raiding, but right now it is only Labs that we do once a week. I think the leadership is waiting for people to get progressed in the quests. Now, the biggest problem I have with KoS, is most of the content seems pretty unchallenging. Guilds in DoF that couldn't even clear the 1st floor of PP:R or get past the Trade Court in Gates have already gotten all the way to Vymme. I haven't done Ascent yet mainly cause of the questing, but it doesn't sound to difficult, Harla is not that hard if you bring the right resists since she can't even hit you hardly. Can't even count the monoliths. If stuff was maybe a bit more challenging people wouldn't complain so much.</p><p>If you read this post <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=zones&message.id=8370" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=zones&message.id=8370</a> you will see very clearly that the amount of raid content has been decreasing steadily from launch to launch. Tiers 1-5, always something to do even if it got pretty easy, we had plenty to do every night. DoF, I think even the top guilds will agree there was still quite a bit to do even if it was pretty easy for them. Gates, PP:R, and Courts still took several hours no matter how good you were, only 4 guilds ever beat DMP, but Im sure a lot of people spent hours in there trying. You could spend days farming eyes for hours no matter how boring and FoL wasn't a complete pushover.</p><p>KoS, there is pitiful amount to do from night to night. Since most guilds don't have Deathtoll access thats 1 raid zone a week they have to do. 1. No one is going to want to do ToS or Ascent for the rest of the week and for the most part only a few guilds are going to be killing contested because they can and don't allow anyone else a shot, which is why its contested, but I am fairly certain the majority of us won't get to do contested for quite sometime. Even if you get Deathtoll access it looks like a fairly small zone from the map and appears to only have like 4 named, I don't know how tough they are going to be, but 4 named won't last long once you figure em out. I am looking forward to the Lyceum just cause it is something else to do. Spose we could go back and raid DoF some more.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:37 AM</span></p>

hoop

04-05-2006, 09:24 PM

<div></div><p>im sorry you didnt infer that i was speaking about raids, since i was posting in a thread that main focus was a raid zone.</p><p>hoopdee</p>

Gaellen

04-05-2006, 09:36 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>hoopde wrote:<div></div><p>im sorry you didnt infer that i was speaking about raids, since i was posting in a thread that main focus was a raid zone.</p><p>hoopdee</p><hr></blockquote></span>Who'd a thunk it???? A complaint about raid content, in a thread about a raid zone? What a joy to see the only answer so far to all these threads has been one snarky comeback to a comment taken completely out of context.

Tasaz

04-05-2006, 09:43 PM

I know there is a lot of contested content in KoS, but to be honest, the vast majority of the server populations will never even get a shot at it when they have high-end guilds that have scouts up 24/7 waiting for the contested encounters to be up.I know on my server that although our guild is quite capable of taking down contested mobs, we never got a shot at any of the T6 mobs. Why? Because 1-2 guilds simply dominate the contested. I remember seeing Terrorantula pop and within 15 minutes the high-end raiding guild on our server was fully assembled and brought it down.Adding a bunch of contested content and saying their is plenty for guilds to do is wrong if you ask me. You get a couple guilds like that and 99.9% of the server population will never have a chance to kill those contested.I realize that SOE likes to promote a bit of competition, but after seeing this happen time and time again and all the contested being dominated by one particular guild, I really have come to hate contested raid content. Unlike these guilds, we do not have the entire guild oncall 24/7 ready to move the second a contested pops. Everyone on my guild has a real life job and we have to plan our raid times during the week. In KoS we have very little to do because of it. We need more instanced areas so that we can actually plan our raid time and have something fun to do during it. And, no, pharming eyes in Silent City or the drops in AotW is not what I call fun.Just my 2 cents.<div></div>

Sute

04-06-2006, 01:29 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ishboozor wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Blackguard wrote:<p><span>Ah, you meant "raid content," not "content." I didn't initially get this since you didn't say it. As for high end raids, we are adding a couple soon. In Live Update #22, you get an instanced raid called Lyceum of Abhorrence. Likely in the next big update, you'll see another high level instanced raid, though the name escapes me (I'm assuming you mean instanced raids as opposed to contested raids, because there are quite a few contested already in KoS).And yes, there have been many discussions about instanced raid content in KoS in the office over the past few weeks. The results of those discussions can be seen in the Test Update #22 notes and more coming soon. There are quite a few mobs that require raids to defeat, but a lot of them are contested and as such are generally discounted when talking about high end content in the game.</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>What seems to repeatedly escape the developers is that 1 or 2 raid zones will do almost nothing to alleviate the massive amount of boredom. One being added 3 weeks from now with the possiblity of another in a month, how many of us will seriously last that long?</p><p>If the result of all this office discussion about raid instances resulted in nothing but 2 weekly or bi-weekly instances being added over the next 2 months you need to resume the conversations. The contested mobs can be cleaned up by a raid guild in under 2 hours, that is ALL of them. We need daily raid instances like we had in t5 period. As it stands right now I have absolutely NO REASON to log in 4-5 days of the week. Do you really want your entire raiding base having no reason to log in? This is not just hardcore raiders, this is everyone. Hell, the more casual raiders dont have a reason to log in 5-6 days a week because they do not have access to deathtoll yet and usually the more hardcore g uilds monopolize the contested mobs should they even bother spawning in that 7 day period.</p><p>Simply put if people dont have a reason to log in, people grow bored and cease to log in. When people cease logging in, they find other interestes. Soon people's other interests take over the nights they had a reason to log in and they cancell their account. Why are you deliberately trying to drive players from your game by refusing to add one room, one mob daily zones they can go into with 11-23 of their friends for a chance at some decent to good loot that only drops maybe once in 5-7 kills. </p><p>Frankly put I want to enjoy playing this game and continue to play for a long time to come, but I feel as if I am being shown the door because you refuse to provide any content or even acknowledge that there is a problem. (READ - your reply Mr. Blackguard did not acknowledge the problem, it merely tryed to say we had no valid point because of the one mb 2 zones we are getting and should have had from the launch of hte expansion. This truly was a slap in the face)</p><hr></blockquote><p>I totaly agree with Ishbu here. I am not in a hardcore raid guild altho we could and would raid every night if there was a target to hit. But, we are not the best on the server where it comes to raids, we dont have the numbers to compete with contested 99% of the time. That leaves us with 1 raid (Vyemm) We do this on a saturday...then what? we are left with a zone that people ninja log or dont log on at all when the zone is mentioned (Ascent of awakened)</p><p>Deathtoll is not in our grasp when the mobs to get there are contested and they are dead before we can even log in...so we are left with ONE raid to do. Really crazy and not enough to keep people active, we have lost i think 4 people in the last week and a half..others are not logging in and i fear we will lose them soon also.</p><p> </p>

Riversideblues

04-06-2006, 02:21 AM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>espmrred wrote:<div></div><p>I’ve read this post a few times now, and didn’t initially want to post, however some of you have the blinders on so tight you can’t even take a step back to realize there are good things. Also, unless you’re NPU you shouldn’t be complaining about lack of raid content claiming you’ve beaten it all (as you haven’t beaten Mutagenic, and has anyone cleared Deathtoll (NPU you don’t count <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> you got in too early and probably faced a easier zone <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). That said, I think most in the raiding community would love to see more 18 hour lockout 1-2 named mobs zones like we had in T5 but here’s the funny thing, what did we ask for with t6 raids?</p><p>We wanted more SotL type raids, and SOE gave us them in DoF – yet you people found reasons to *****.There wasn’t enough contested mobs in DoF so SOE gave us a lot more “contested” content – yet you people found reasons to *****.There aren’t enough short lockout zones for us to do.</p><p>Do you see the circle?</p><p>Nothing these people do is EVER good enough for you guys. It’s always “not enough content” or “this mob’s too hard” or “this zone’s to easy” or “this item ______ [be it not worth the risk, is too uber for the risk, etc)”</p><p>A poster a few posts up asked the question:“<font color="#ffff00">I'm curious. If KoS hadn't come out until May, and it had the extra two instanced raids (and maybe another, who knows) -- would everyone have been happy? Or would they be complaining about how boring T6 was becoming?”</font> ---- I’m pretty sure, had we had to wait 2 more months for new raid content the same people would have been *****ing about lack of T6 raid content (I mean why not, we did it at the end of T5 about how there was no new content and all the t5 content was easy and boring)</p><p>In the end, voice your criticism, but do it in a constructive way, Elrohn did a wonderful job in his post “Raids, and where has all the content gone. Where is it…” however that post has been pulled off topic, pushed back on, with all of the different rants of people. </p><p>Also remember, T5 had a lot of stuff added after the fact, in T6 DMP and PoS weren’t working properly at the start, so give KoS a bit longer before you run around screaming that the sky is falling.</p><div></div><hr></blockquote> too bad i can't put koenig on forum ignor, EC is getting a bad rep for poor postsit's the fact that there was only SOL type raids in dof and no daily raids to give players SOMETHING To do to keep them content while locked out of the bigger stuff, and the contestables, while the quality is fine, but the quantity is lacking soooo badly. and it's not just that there's a problem, it's that SOE really doesn't seem to be seeing it, which means that this isnt going to get adressed before a massive amount of players quit</span></div>

Oakum

04-06-2006, 05:04 AM

<div></div><div></div><p>From reading the thread, I have to aggree that the raid community can find it hard to do stuff unless they are in the top 1 percent of the raid guilds in the 10 or possibly even 20% (just a guess and probably way over the actual nr's but I am in a decent mood tonight and am giving the raid community the benefit of the doubt concerning their actual numbers) of the EQ2 players. I see the hardcore scouts out at contested mobs when I play from midnight to 0500 CST US. Hopefully they are not using some sort of bot program to alert them to a mob pop while they sleep but I can believe the statements about the hardcore raiders getting the contested mobs.</p><p>On the positive side for raiders though, at least they have some challenging content that gives good rewards. Groups don't. Once people who don't raid hit 70/70 and have gotten all the semi-decent legendary drops they want, they have no endgame at all. If all the normal instances and dungeons are really good as an endgame for groups as I have seen hardcore raiders say in other threads, then the raiders would have no reason to complain except where the challenge and reward of a zone/mob is not truly of endgame standards and they have to do them with only 5 friends and no backup for when someone dies instead of the normal 23 friends with several backups for everyone but possibly the tank. You would just break down into 4 groups and do the group endgame and still have the same lvl of challenge and rewards.</p><p>Inconclusion, think positive. They are making more raid zones and you will always be better treated then those who dont raid. As an alcy I will make a batch of chemicals a jeweler can use to lighten the tint on your glasses. Looking through those very heavily tinted glasses that you wear because you are such a cool raider indoors will sooner or later make you start having dark thoughts. Wait, those of us who craft can't make nice stuff like dyes ect and raiders got all our T7 rare products nerfed. Oh well, this last little paragraph is just a poor attempt at humor anyway. The EQ2 world is not ending anytime soon with or without any group endgame content, more raid content, and nerfed crafters. At least they are giving you 2 new bones to chew on. They love you more then then crafters and the majority of EQ2 players.</p><p>Edited to change the last line slightly.</p><p>Be happy with with that but it never hurts to give polite, constructive, and logical inputs to make the game better.</p><p>Message Edited by Oakum on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:51 PM</span></p>

Ilucide

04-06-2006, 12:31 PM

Blackguard already explained that LU22 will bring a new instanced raid zone for 70+ (as was mentioned in prior threads). He also mentioned the raid zone that will go live with LU23 for 70+.What is it that people want to hear? This team already puts out pound-for-pound more content than any other I've seen in my not-so-inconsiderable MMO experience. I think complaints are misplaced at this point. There are things that can be done to alleviate issues with 70+ raiding, but solutions to those issues take time. Unfortunately, the exact opposite complaints are levelled against us when content has a few kinks to be worked out after it goes Live, so really it's a no-win situation.There's a lot to do in EQ2. More than one person will feasably be able to accomplish in any sane amount of gaming time. Taking only a single part of that content and saying, '<i>There's not enough of X for me to do. Fix it.</i>' isn't really a valid statement for us to consider as a whole. We have to consider content addition for solo, group and raid playstyles, not just one of those. So if you choose to only take part in one, then you're going to have to expect that there isn't going to be as much content. It boils down to basic math:EQ2 content is a combination of solo, group, raid & tradeskill playstyles.If you choose to subtract three of those content groups, then obviously you're going to have "less content".So, to wrap it all up:<ul><li>Yes, there is more raid content coming (<font size="1">HOORAYYYY!</font>).</li><li>No, we can't only focus on raid content, because to do so excludes a large number of our players. And we <3 you all equally. (Except for maybe Hoopdee... <font size="1" color="#330000">JUST KIDDING!</font>)</li><li>Yes, we want to add more content (not just for raiders, but for everybody)! Contrary to popular belief, we haven't found a way to slow down time yet, and there are only a limited number of hours in a day. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>No, you can't pester or poke me about anything I've said here or previously at Fan Faire this weekend. I'll be busy slaving away making sure your next new shiny raid zone is pretty and happy when you get ahold of it. All work and no play for Ilucide. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li></ul><div></div>

Bhagpuss

04-06-2006, 12:50 PM

EQ2 was originally promoted heavily as a casual-friendly game, suitable for solo, small group and group play, with some raiding. I remember this very clearly because of the discussions that we had in my EQ1 family guild during EQ2 beta. We were a non-raiding guild in EQ1 and almost the entire guild moved to EQ2 precisely because it was perceived as being a game where raiding would form only a small part of the content.In my opinion, raiding already forms far too big a part of EQ2. The game has developed rather differently from how it was originally promoted, and most of the changes I very much approve of, but the growth of the raiding side is a big negative for me, in that I can already see the same draining of resources that blighted EQ. The most hardcore players like to raid, and they push for development in their specialist area. They drive up expectations for gear etc. all round, link equipment that tends to make some players disatisfied with waht they have, and generally we end up in the space that EQ occupies, where there is an end-game and the end-game is a raid guild raiding 5- 7 days a week.SoE already has a hardcore raid game, generally recognised as the best in the genre. It's EQ. I don't think we need a copy of that here.

SonnyA

04-06-2006, 12:58 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bhagpuss wrote:SoE already has a hardcore raid game, generally recognised as the best in the genre. It's EQ. I don't think we need a copy of that here.<hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>I disagree. If they can provide the best content in all the major areas (solo, group, raid and tradeskilling) why not do so?</p><p>Why shouldn't EQ1 players be able to switch to EQ2 "because they want EQ1 with better graphics"?</p><p>I think SoE should shut down EQ1 and put that design team on EQ2 instead.</p>

CrazedMut

04-06-2006, 01:06 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Illucide, that's a nice post from an experienced developer trained in the SOE ways of circumnavigating an issue and making it seem like the players have no right to complain.</div><div> </div><div>If Kingdom of Sky end game content was so unfinished (where pretty much only <strong>two </strong>raid zone in the entirety of tier 7 is where SOE wants it to be functionality wise), a lot of quests not properly Q&A'd (the players on live shouldn't be beta testing the Claymore line), and zone instancing not gauged correctly, then it begs the question as to why the expansion was rushed out so quickly after DoF.</div><div> </div><div>Now, don't get me wrong, I love this game and appreciate the developers hard-work, but I <strong>guarentee</strong> you ask pretty much ANY player, from a raid guild or otherwise, whether they could have played another month or two of DoF, and I believe the answer would have been unanimously: <strong><em>YES! </em></strong></div><div><strong><em></em></strong> </div><div><div>This quote particulary interests me:</div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:EQ2 content is a combination of solo, group, raid & tradeskill playstyles.If you choose to subtract three of those content groups, then obviously you're going to have "less content".<hr></blockquote><div>Yes that's exactly what happened! Let's not lie here, <strong>solo</strong> content, whilst present in KoS, is nowhere near the level of DoF. Some lines have been added recently - see Bonemire crashsite, but this is actually one cause of guild friction - if your not grouped - you're sat on your thumbs with the lfg tag up.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Group</strong> content is awesome in KoS, and taking it to a new level from DoF. This aspect is the jewel in the unfortunately unfinished KoS crown.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Tradeskills</strong> really weren't in any finished state whatsoever. Having rare crafted equipment with meaningless stats meant not only that dungeon legendary was better, but tradeskillers got the shaft of a lifetime. Unless you were a sage or a jeweler, nobody wanted your wares. It's taken nearly a month to revamp the T7 crafted armour to somewhere close to where they should be in desirability terms (I agree good quality legendary should be better btw)- but there are still some glaring problems with tradeskills still. For example, moonstone being used for 3 classes spells, and acrylia being used for nothing but jewelry. I can appreciate that some tiers still have the old subcombines system, and I'm sure Beghn is working his socks off to get it finished. Either way though, tradeskills were in no-way a finished state come KoS and still aren't now.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Raid </strong>content was and is unfinished and in a shameful state as far as I'm concerned. Granted the lore is amazing throughout the expansion, but let's have a look at the zones on offer at launch and now.</div><div> </div><div>Temple of Scale: Good zone on launch, nice quest theme, broken encounters marred it a little, 2nd best raid zone in game atm.</div><div>Ascent of Awakened: The joke zone of KoS, mobs with a Million HP, long respawns, a zone nobody wants to raid.</div><div>Lab of Lord Vyemm: Had the exploit problem on launch due to no lockout timer in certain conditions, an awesome zone though, highlight of KoS so far.</div><div>Deathtoll: Good for minimal amount of raid guilds that have got there already, or so I heard. Hope to visit this zone soon.</div><div> </div><div>So that's two real area out of only four which anyone can say is 'finished' with the rest *still being worked on*.</div><div> </div><div>Tell me SOE, was it really <strong><em>worth</em></strong> touting the fact you could get an expansion out in six months, when really you couldn't? I understand it's a dog eat dog world business wise, (with WOW being the Rottweiler and SOE the jack russel) but just take a look at WoW and The Burning Crusade, they took their time and the hype is building towards what I'm sure will be a great expansion for them and they didn't need to rush it out in six months either. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</div><div> </div><div>Again, my problem is more with the fact KoS should not have been rushed out six months after DoF as their was still raid content a lot of people wanted to explore and get to the end of before Tier 7. I hope maybe 8 months next time gives SOE more time to get the next expansion polished, because I sure as hell don't mind waiting 2 months longer.</div><div> </div></div><p>Message Edited by CrazedMutha on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:08 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by CrazedMutha on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:09 AM</span></p>

Ishbu

04-06-2006, 01:15 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:EQ2 content is a combination of solo, group, raid & tradeskill playstyles.If you choose to subtract three of those content groups, then obviously you're going to have "less content".So, to wrap it all up:<ul><li>Yes, there is more raid content coming (<font size="1">HOORAYYYY!</font>).</li><li>No, we can't only focus on raid content, because to do so excludes a large number of our players. And we <3 you all equally. (Except for maybe Hoopdee... <font size="1" color="#330000">JUST KIDDING!</font>)</li><li>Yes, we want to add more content (not just for raiders, but for everybody)! Contrary to popular belief, we haven't found a way to slow down time yet, and there are only a limited number of hours in a day. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>No, you can't pester or poke me about anything I've said here or previously at Fan Faire this weekend. I'll be busy slaving away making sure your next new shiny raid zone is pretty and happy when you get ahold of it. All work and no play for Ilucide. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li></ul><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Let me start by saying that Ilucide, you are by far and away the developer I have the most respect for. You have proven time and time again to be more in touch with the player base and do a better job on your projects than any other as far as I am concerned.</p><p>More raid content coming is a good thing. I daresay I am "excited" for it to arrive. The rumor I have heard is that both the zones planne for LU22 and LU23 are going to be 70+ raid instances on a 3 day lockout. If this is true, as far as instances go there will be Deathtoll, Lord Vyemm's Lab, and then both of these instances twice in a 6 day period. One for each day of the week basically and that is a good thing. </p><p>However; I do not see why there is such reluctance to add a couple 15minute, daily instances like there were in t5. I remember when the echoes of time, fyrmist gulley, and tembling lagoon epic zones were introduced (not counting the angler zone, because, well, you know <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). The only complaint I remember seeing about those zones was that too much time was being spent on raid content and not enough on other things, a complaint that will rear it's head everytime new raid content is added and vice versa for solo/group content. Throughout the duration of these zones (February to September) the only complaints I heard was that the drop rate was too low (lame complaint if you ask me), the zones were being catered to too high of a crowd when they got an upgrade in the late spring (justifiable but the new challenge/loot prolonged their longevity), and that they were boring come mid summer. This last complaint was due to the fact t5 lasted much much longer than any current tier seems to be lasting now that the expansion pack ball is rolling. If you were to design 3 zones that consisted of nothing but one room that was copy/pasted from an already created zone, with 1 encounter thrown in that had basically 1 ability and a loot table of 10 items (5 legendary, 3 "common" fabled, and 2 rare drop uber fabled) that consisted of just an 18 hour lockout, I would be a much happier panda. Of the legendary drops one should be useable by each of silk, leather, chain, and plate, with the last being jewlery. The fabled items should be mixed througout the thee zones so that each zone has something for each class but the best items for a class dont all come from the same instance. </p><p>Of course this may just be me, but something we could rely on doing on a daily basis would alleviate much of the boredom and the desire to not log in. As far as I can tell, all in all the daily zones were a big hit with hardcore, casual, and begining raiders across the board in t5. Why has that base of the raid scene been done away with?</p><p>You brought up the point of throwing out 2/3rds of the content (solo and group) by focusing on raiding. Well unforunately I admit I do spend an obscene amount of time logged in and I can honestly say I have experienced most of this content. Maybe it is my fault, but I can tell you my alts leveling up, both grouping and soloing are never at a loss for things to kill or quests to do, however; my main who is a raider is more often than not left with nothing available. Just as an example, I have progressed through all but the last step of the claymore quests, I have cleared nest of the great egg, black scale sepulcher, and halls of fate more times than I can count and completed any quest involving such. I have finished two of the three herritage quests in KoS and I really dont enjoy crafting nor can I use the wurmslayer but I progressed that to the point of crafting anyways. When the new solo quests were added with LU21 I completed them as soon as I logged in. I do not say this to brag, far from it, just to illustrate how the group/solo content is not ignored, just conquered. I know I am not the only person on my server to have done all this and I am sure there are many players on each and ever server in the same boat I am. </p><p>When all is said and done I am looking forward to the new raid zones, I just shudder at the thought of another 2-6 weeks of the current raid game. I do appreciate your reply to this thread (although perhaps this should have been in one of the thread more directed at the t7 raid game <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) and would love to see some sort of reply or confirmation that daily raid zones have been discussed/will be discussed/are in the works/ or a reason as to why it is felt they are not needed. Thank you.</p><p> </p>

SageGaspar

04-06-2006, 01:21 PM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Bhagpuss wrote:EQ2 was originally promoted heavily as a casual-friendly game, suitable for solo, small group and group play, with some raiding. I remember this very clearly because of the discussions that we had in my EQ1 family guild during EQ2 beta. We were a non-raiding guild in EQ1 and almost the entire guild moved to EQ2 precisely because it was perceived as being a game where raiding would form only a small part of the content.In my opinion, raiding already forms far too big a part of EQ2. The game has developed rather differently from how it was originally promoted, and most of the changes I very much approve of, but the growth of the raiding side is a big negative for me, in that I can already see the same draining of resources that blighted EQ. The most hardcore players like to raid, and they push for development in their specialist area. They drive up expectations for gear etc. all round, link equipment that tends to make some players disatisfied with waht they have, and generally we end up in the space that EQ occupies, where there is an end-game and the end-game is a raid guild raiding 5- 7 days a week.<hr></blockquote>One of the reasons I'm still in EQ2 is that it's a game where casual raiding is not only possible, it's a ton of fun. I know a bunch of casual raid alliances that are having a great time raiding T6 targets. The guild I'm in hosts raids three times a week with no commitment required for two to three hour sessions, we have a policy of rotating in players that don't get a shot, we don't recruit for raiding or anything like that. We're certainly not uber, but we have a hell of a time going at it. I'd be very annoyed if EQ2 scrapped this because people can't understand that raiding isn't just for uber players anymore.Have you seen the legendary equipment dropping off mobs in the Kingdom of Sky instances? I don't see how you can complain about your gear if you're toting that around. And if you've seen the T7 raiding situation, I don't see how you can claim the expansion was built around raiding. Desert of Flames and even vanilla EQ2 had much more end-game raiding content than is available now.</span></div>

Ellrin

04-06-2006, 01:26 PM

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:Blackguard already explained that LU22 will bring a new instanced raid zone for 70+ (as was mentioned in prior threads). He also mentioned the raid zone that will go live with LU23 for 70+.What is it that people want to hear? This team already puts out pound-for-pound more content than any other I've seen in my not-so-inconsiderable MMO experience. I think complaints are misplaced at this point. There are things that can be done to alleviate issues with 70+ raiding, but solutions to those issues take time. Unfortunately, the exact opposite complaints are levelled against us when content has a few kinks to be worked out after it goes Live, so really it's a no-win situation.There's a lot to do in EQ2. More than one person will feasably be able to accomplish in any sane amount of gaming time. Taking only a single part of that content and saying, '<i>There's not enough of X for me to do. Fix it.</i>' isn't really a valid statement for us to consider as a whole. We have to consider content addition for solo, group and raid playstyles, not just one of those. So if you choose to only take part in one, then you're going to have to expect that there isn't going to be as much content. It boils down to basic math:EQ2 content is a combination of solo, group, raid & tradeskill playstyles.If you choose to subtract three of those content groups, then obviously you're going to have "less content".So, to wrap it all up:<ul><li>Yes, there is more raid content coming (<font size="1">HOORAYYYY!</font>).</li><li>No, we can't only focus on raid content, because to do so excludes a large number of our players. And we <3 you all equally. (Except for maybe Hoopdee... <font size="1" color="#330000">JUST KIDDING!</font>)</li><li>Yes, we want to add more content (not just for raiders, but for everybody)! Contrary to popular belief, we haven't found a way to slow down time yet, and there are only a limited number of hours in a day. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>No, you can't pester or poke me about anything I've said here or previously at Fan Faire this weekend. I'll be busy slaving away making sure your next new shiny raid zone is pretty and happy when you get ahold of it. All work and no play for Ilucide. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li></ul><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks for the reply Noel.</p><p>I appreciate the hard work you guys do, i dont think that is in any doubt from any of us, and I also understand its frustrating to read complaint posts but im afraid you are in a service industry, we dont get this game for free, and as such you are going to have to be above letting frustration and sarcasm appear in your posts even though it may be a hard thing to do.</p><p>The fact of the matter is this, you could have saved yourself a ton of additional man hours by actually thinking carefully about what you guys were going to launch KoS with in terms of raid content. Yes there is a ton of it, the majority of it contested, contested is normaly monopolised by one or two guilds per server compared to many guilds who raid on each, an issue magnified by the server mergers.</p><p>If you arent in a hardcore raid guild you basically have Lab to go to once every 6 days, is that what you intended to happen upon release? honestly? if it is then accept you dropped the ball and made a mistake. A mistake that has caused a flurry of posts some of which you appear to have taken offence to.</p><p>I am resigned to the fact that as a person who runs a very capable level 50 guild of mature experienced mmorpgers who organise raiding 3 days a week around jobs and families are unlikely to see the Deathtoll zone anytime soon due to the fact that the access mobs are contested. If that was your intention, to have very few guilds in Deathtoll, then may I be so bold as to suggest it in my opinion was a short sighted one with the lack of instanced raiding content available at go live of KoS.</p><p>When you sat down to discuss KoS raiding it justs seems wierd to me that somebody said 'Well lets make 80% of the raid content at launch contested, have 2 instanced zones, one of which will require 4 contested Dragons for access' with the knowledge that youd just increased the server populations and thereby isolated a whole chunk of your raiding playerbase.</p><p>You are rectifying the issues and i for one am very very happy about it, allow me the chance to thank you all, it just seems to me a case of trying to slam shut the stable door after the horse is well and truly gone and I live in hope that lessons were learned.</p><p>Thanks for your time.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Ellrin on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:31 PM</span></p>

Ilucide

04-06-2006, 01:36 PM

<hr width="100%" size="2"><blockquote>Illucide, that's a nice post from an experienced developer trained in the SOE ways of circumnavigating an issue and making it seem like the players have no right to complain.</blockquote><hr width="100%" size="2">First, my pseudonym, 'Ilucide', only has one 'L'.Second, I'm a designer. I'm not trained in anything, except designing content. I don't circumnavigate anything. That's my father's goal in life (he retired to sail around the world - see: dictionary entry for circumnavigate).Third, if you're stating that I'm somehow dodging an issue (which, doesn't really make much sense; realistically, if I wanted to dodge an issue, I wouldn't post on it), then I'm going to have to call shenanigans! The very first thing I stated in my post was that more raid content is being added. Unless I'm confused, <i>that's exactly what people have been asking for</i>. Yes? No?<div></div>

Ilucide

04-06-2006, 01:39 PM

<div></div><hr width="100%" size="2"><blockquote>I appreciate the hard work you guys do, i dont think that is in any doubt from any of us, and I also understand its frustrating to read complaint posts but im afraid you are in a service industry, we dont get this game for free, and as such you are going to have to be above letting frustration and sarcasm appear in your posts even though it may be a hard thing to do.</blockquote><hr width="100%" size="2">You'll have to forgive me sarcasm. It and coffee are my only vices in life, and I'm not about to give them up this late in life. <span>:smileywink:</span><i>Edit: Two quick things -First: If something came across as me being frustrated, that's certainly not the case. If I ask a question, such as 'What do people want to hear?', I'm genuinely curious. Because if hearing that 2 more new raid zones are going live isn't what people wanted to hear (but what they were asking for), then I, as a designer, need to know what it is that's not being communicated that we could stand to work on.Second: I think we have different definitions of a 'service industry'. We're far more accessable than, say, the TV industry (When was the last time you expected input into how much time is spent on Jack's storyline in LOST because you paid a cable bill?), but that doesn't mean that we're a 'service industry'. Entertainment industry, yes. I firmly believe it's our job to create entertainment for people, and that's what we do. This is getting far outside the scope of what I do though, so I'll leave it at that. <span>:smileywink:</span></i><div></div><p>Message Edited by Ilucide on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:53 AM</span></p>

Kazora

04-06-2006, 02:01 PM

<div></div><div></div><div>i dont think instancing a bunch of content is hte answer. I think a larger part of the playerbase than u realize plays for the fun of competetiveness and racing to and beating mobs that are up in noninstanced zones, they of course arent going to be the ones posting about the lack of instanced content in KOS. I think the biggest problem with this game is that you keep raising the level cap, for no apparent reason. You guys do put out a lot of content, which is GREAT. just dont up the level cap. achievements woulda been fine as far as a progress path for the expansion.</div><div> </div><div> By tiering content you basically destroy months of prior content, which really did not need to happen. Face it its easy as pie to lvl in this game, so even casual guilds/raiders will hit 70 and look for raid day things to do. But no one wants to go around fighting green and blue mobs. If you dont trivialize prior endgame content, then the game will develop a natural tiering of guilds spread across a lot of raid content that was added thru several expansions, with some guilds pushing the limits and others wokring their way there and having something to look forward to. But the important things is you can now have the premier end game zones that are hard to get into, like deathtoll, which can develop a mystique of their own the way vp st and even vt did in eq1 (and which will NEVER happen to any raidzone thats an instance with easy access to anyone), while at the same time not leave 90% of the raiding playerbase with nothing to do. Trust me a lot of the guilds coming on here complainign likely did not clear ppr prism and pedestal prior to the expansion, and possibly did not even get far into/see much of them. Yet a lot of them dont want to go back and do it now, and really i cant blame them. Many of them probably did it once or twice now in kos, found it retardedly easy, got bored and want to push themselves on new, challenging content. Had the level cap not been raised many of these guild would have instead spent al ot more time and had more fun working on this content they couldnt beat before, because of the slower pace they may move at compared to the hardercore guilds, but with more time, AA's and new gear they pull it off. The difference here is witohut the massively trivializing factor of 10 more levels, this content would still be FUN.</div><div> </div><div>Well I hope this was clear, bottom line sony is STOP UPPING THE LEVEL CAP. In the end its just an artificial progress bar that doesnt mean anything, especially in this game where all ur spells are just carbon copies except for 1 or 2. Hit a mob 10% harder, have 10% more defense, but hey, the mobs have 10% more hitpoints and hit 10% harder now. IE its still the same stupid thing. Sony just ADD CONTENT, tahts what we want, NOT MORE LEVELS. And you will have urselfs a MUCH better game.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by rozakk on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:02 AM</span></p>

CrazedMut

04-06-2006, 02:04 PM

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Illucide, that's a nice post from an experienced developer trained in the SOE ways of circumnavigating an issue and making it seem like the players have no right to complain.</p></blockquote><p></p><hr><p>What I meant by that statement (and I guess I was annoyed at the time) was that you make it "sound" like we shouldn't be complaining when we are playing an unfinished expansion (the pound for pound quote) and have every right to complain, and that you guys work your [Removed for Content] off (which you do). My overall conclusion was that maybe 6 months isn't an ideal timeframe for releasing an expansion and that players wont mind waiting a little bit longer for the next one. Now I know you don't decide that, but I felt I had to get the point across within my post in a thread about lack of raiding.</p><p>Also, a few points:</p><p>a) We DO want more raid zones, they are good, and keep us much happy. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p>b) An expansion with finished raid zones would be awesome.</p><p>c) Il<strong>l</strong>ucide looks better with two L's. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p>Message Edited by CrazedMutha on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:06 AM</span></p>

Kazora

04-06-2006, 02:06 PM

<div>oh i should add careful itemization is sitll important <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> like splitpaw imo was a great example of this. brutal acts, great raid added without upping the level cap. the loot was good but did NOT (usually) completely destroy the loot from the rest of the zones available at the time (and thus trivializing/not making it worth doing them). In other words it worked as an extra piece of content peopel could mix into their schedule, without having to toss other stuff. IMO an entire expansion could be worked in this way if done properlky.</div>

Morfi

04-06-2006, 02:29 PM

People complaining about developer responses is funny. EQ2 has practically set a new standard for how involved developers are with the playerbase. Anyone with prior MMORPG experience knows this. Its completely unheard of, to see developers responding <b>daily</b> to player posts. Completely.Its also relatively unheard of to patch in additional raid content outside of expansions. I do see issues dodged, but they all happen to be ones that have no simple answer (or, as is my guess, an answer will give away something in works that by no means is final) such as specific class balance issues.Kudos to the devs, after coming from World of Warcraft in Europe where complaints were NEVER responded to (I've seen around 2-4 dev posts on EU forums, if that) and EverQuest 1 where they had to fly people to a Sony compound to patch up the fact that they hadn't listened to their players, I for one am relieved.Sometimes people forget the positive aspects in the face of negatives; Many individuals are too quick to preach that X or Y isn't happening or Developer A or B isn't listening / doing what they want.Cheers,Morfina<div></div>

vinterskugge

04-06-2006, 03:00 PM

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Morfina wrote:</p><p>Its also relatively unheard of to patch in additional raid content outside of expansions. I do see issues dodged, but they all happen to be ones that have no simple answer (or, as is my guess, an answer will give away something in works that by no means is final) such as specific class balance issues.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>This isn't "additional raid content". This is content that was meant to be a part of the expansion but wasn't finished in time, hence the late release.</p><p>Besides, doesn't WoW add new raid zones with every patch?</p>

ginfress

04-06-2006, 03:21 PM

<div>Its fun to see people screaming the devs never listen and dont post in raid threads and the moment one posts he needs to come back and defend what he is posting. And you guys still wonder why they stay away from the boards?</div>

04-06-2006, 03:22 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:<div></div><i>We're far more accessable than, say, the TV industry (When was the last time you expected input into how much time is spent on Jack's storyline in LOST because you paid a cable bill?), <span></span></i><hr></blockquote>Although i appreciate the posts, this is a particularly bad metaphor. It would be more like complaining about the unfinished content, and broken zones because we pay for our internet bill.Sadly we DO pay for our internet bills, and then on top of this again for this specific piece of entertainment.Personally the thing that really aggravates me more than anything in this game is the complete inability to do many quest lines as a group.See Burglars afoot the start of the quest series, where the clues are on a 5minute respawn, hardly group-friendly, considering that a 2hr timer for the soundless guardian really makes it something you want to do as a group, much the same as certain parts of the peacock series needing a group then the next part being a free-for-all trying to get collectables before the next person, rather than a groupwide update.As for raids, I'm barely motivated to level to raid as I'm not sure I can do two raids a week over and over before becoming completely burnt out.dont get me wrong though - i will be welcoming the new raid zones</span><div></div>

Ellrin

04-06-2006, 03:30 PM

<div></div><p>Oh gawd <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Listen, none of us are ragging on the devs i think you find the majority of us who responded thanked Noel for his work and it is hugely appreciated having developer input into these threads.</p><p>Apologies on the service industry tag, yup entertainment industry is a better description <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p>

Rydiane

04-06-2006, 03:40 PM

<div></div><blockquote><p>"Besides, doesn't WoW add new raid zones with every patch?"</p><p>WoW has exactly 4 high end raid zones (molten core, onyxia, zul'gurub and gates), if I remember correctly. You're barking up the wrong tree here.</p><p>However, to say that there's been a lack of content lately is not exactly false. It isn't something new though. It goes all the way back to before EQ2 was released with EQ1. It started with Omens of War/Dragons of Norrath with EQ1. We used to get full expansions like velious/luclin/pop/gates with at LEAST 20 new zones, and tons of raid content. Now we're lucky to see 2-3 overland zones and 2-3 dungeons and a couple instances with each new expansion. </p><p>Coming from someone who's fairly up to date on the game industry as a whole (console and pc), it seems obvious to me that EQ and SoE in general aren't exactly Sony corporation's biggest concern. And as such, it seems they are getting less and less manpower to maintain these games, meaning we continue to get less and less content with each new expansion. We need the days back where an expansion was really an expansion. The current expansion model would be considered an "adventure pack" in those days. It seems that's just dreaming, however. There's obviously someone up at sony corporate with a business model in hand that demands that the devs of EQ2 have a new box on the shelf at retailers every 6 months, regardless of whether it's enough or even tested content. It's a shame.</p></blockquote>

vinterskugge

04-06-2006, 04:45 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rydiane wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p>"Besides, doesn't WoW add new raid zones with every patch?"</p><p>WoW has exactly 4 high end raid zones (molten core, onyxia, zul'gurub and gates), if I remember correctly. You're barking up the wrong tree here</p><p> </p><p></p><hr></blockquote></blockquote>Ok, I know I'm going off topic, and correct me if I'm wrong (My highest WoW character is about 45, I've not played it much), but looking at patch notes, Zul'Gurub was added in patch 1.7 and Gates was in 1.9.

Blast2hell

04-06-2006, 04:59 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:Blackguard already explained that LU22 will bring a new instanced raid zone for 70+ (as was mentioned in prior threads). He also mentioned the raid zone that will go live with LU23 for 70+.What is it that people want to hear? This team already puts out pound-for-pound more content than any other I've seen in my not-so-inconsiderable MMO experience. I think complaints are misplaced at this point. There are things that can be done to alleviate issues with 70+ raiding, but solutions to those issues take time. Unfortunately, the exact opposite complaints are levelled against us when content has a few kinks to be worked out after it goes Live, so really it's a no-win situation.There's a lot to do in EQ2. More than one person will feasably be able to accomplish in any sane amount of gaming time. Taking only a single part of that content and saying, '<i>There's not enough of X for me to do. Fix it.</i>' isn't really a valid statement for us to consider as a whole. We have to consider content addition for solo, group and raid playstyles, not just one of those. So if you choose to only take part in one, then you're going to have to expect that there isn't going to be as much content. It boils down to basic math:EQ2 content is a combination of solo, group, raid & tradeskill playstyles.If you choose to subtract three of those content groups, then obviously you're going to have "less content".So, to wrap it all up:<ul><li>Yes, there is more raid content coming (<font size="1">HOORAYYYY!</font>).</li><li>No, we can't only focus on raid content, because to do so excludes a large number of our players. And we <3 you all equally. (Except for maybe Hoopdee... <font size="1" color="#330000">JUST KIDDING!</font>)</li><li>Yes, we want to add more content (not just for raiders, but for everybody)! Contrary to popular belief, we haven't found a way to slow down time yet, and there are only a limited number of hours in a day. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>No, you can't pester or poke me about anything I've said here or previously at Fan Faire this weekend. I'll be busy slaving away making sure your next new shiny raid zone is pretty and happy when you get ahold of it. All work and no play for Ilucide. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li></ul><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>The responses by you and blackguard are appreciated, I think something could of been said before the test update notes for LU22 hit though, especially since it was known that this raid zone was coming. I believe that's more blackguards realm.</p><p>I think what confuses me is why do you guys stray away from what worked before? In DoF, you launched with two raid zones that were instanced and required no quest access....and had solid entry timers for them. On the KoS expansion, what was done in DoF was apparently disregarded....this confuses me. I personally expected that when KoS launched I would have an equal plane to when DoF launched, if not more. I realize people change job positions, and people that handled something before are moved to other spots, but there has to be some basic raw comparison of quality when doing things. I thought DoF was very well balanced at launch for solo/group/raid content. when KoS launched, there was huge problems with instancing(known to be a smart thing since EQ2Beta), and a perceived lack of quality raid content. I'm very happy that you guys have stepped up to correct this problem, my guild is quite happy about it and look forward to raiding content to our level on a bit more regular basis. </p><p>As a player, I'm always going to expect ya to do as good as ya did in the last expansion, not take a step back. So if ya raise the level cap again(I hope not), your going to be expected to present us with content to match our level equivalent of what ya did last time at launch. If you can't do it at launch,the players that aim to the content type that is lacking, are going to be very unhappy. And server populations need to be taken into account when deciding what to instance and what not to instance....I'm not sure if you guys have someone there that handles server population/zone monitoring....but maybe that would be advantageous... not just for raiders...but group/solo people as well. Again, thanks for your posts, and kick blackguard in the butt for us next time ya see him.</p>

scl

04-06-2006, 05:11 PM

<blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rydiane wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p>"Besides, doesn't WoW add new raid zones with every patch?"</p><p>WoW has exactly 4 high end raid zones (molten core, onyxia, zul'gurub and gates), if I remember correctly. You're barking up the wrong tree here</p><p></p><p></p><hr></blockquote></blockquote>Ok, I know I'm going off topic, and correct me if I'm wrong (My highest WoW character is about 45, I've not played it much), but looking at patch notes, Zul'Gurub was added in patch 1.7 and Gates was in 1.9.<hr></blockquote>WoW also has Blackwing Lair, which is the biggest and hardest one... well, until AQ40 came out. However, Scafloc's point still stands since they WERE added in patches NOT expansions.

Gaellen

04-06-2006, 06:07 PM

Thanks for the reply, Ilucide.. it DOES look better with two L's, though. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />You asked specifically, <i>'What do people want to hear?' </i>and we'd probably all answer that differently, but from me, it's pretty simple.T5 had 4+ hours of content per night, more on weekends, with around 47 "things" to do. We absolutely always had something to do when we logged in. Always. T6 bumped that down to 17 things to do, but if you were willing to do Silent City 2-3 times a week you still had a full slate, content ready when you logged in.T7 - going by Blackguard's own comment that quest-required contested should not count - has 1 "things" to do. Harla Dar is almost always going to be taken by every servers hardest core raid guild, so Deathtoll is not an option for most of us, and the contested can be cleared by the good guilds on the first pull. From 4+ hours every day, easy, with options, to 1 actual day of fun stuff to do.So what do I want to hear? <u>Whether this is, or is not, a trend that will continue. </u> Will the amount of content available for raiders become more and more open-zone/contested based? Will the number of instances decline further in the next expansion? Is there any intention, at all, to return to more instanced raid content with lower timers?Or if it's easier - are any of the extremely detailed suggestions for Ascent or Temple going to be considered? Many would make these zones actual viable content again rather than the wasted effort and space they are now and at least be a stopgap measure.

Aegori

04-06-2006, 06:18 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Morfina wrote:</p><p>Its also relatively unheard of to patch in additional raid content outside of expansions. I do see issues dodged, but they all happen to be ones that have no simple answer (or, as is my guess, an answer will give away something in works that by no means is final) such as specific class balance issues.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>This isn't "additional raid content". This is content that was meant to be a part of the expansion but wasn't finished in time, hence the late release.</p><p>Besides, doesn't WoW add new raid zones with every patch?</p><hr></blockquote><p>Every 2 1/2 months when they have a patch, yea... they add something. And the you have to wait another month to be able to play it due to bugs.</p><p>I personally can't WAIT for the WoW expansion and all the people on here that are touting it as the next great thing and how SOE should take a page out of their development book in the fact they're waiting and being careful to develop their expansions.... Servers are gonna be down for days when that thing launches.</p>

Aegori

04-06-2006, 06:37 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>scl wrote:<blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rydiane wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p>"Besides, doesn't WoW add new raid zones with every patch?"</p><p>WoW has exactly 4 high end raid zones (molten core, onyxia, zul'gurub and gates), if I remember correctly. You're barking up the wrong tree here</p><p></p><p></p><hr></blockquote></blockquote>Ok, I know I'm going off topic, and correct me if I'm wrong (My highest WoW character is about 45, I've not played it much), but looking at patch notes, Zul'Gurub was added in patch 1.7 and Gates was in 1.9.<hr></blockquote>WoW also has Blackwing Lair, which is the biggest and hardest one... well, until AQ40 came out. However, Scafloc's point still stands since they WERE added in patches NOT expansions.<hr></blockquote><p>mmkay... lets break down what EQ2 has added in terms of content since launch if we're gonna have this [Removed for Content] battle:</p><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=45&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #1</b></font></a><font color="#ff9900"> <font color="#ffffff">(January 6, 2005</font></font>)- Tons of new quests, mostly for solo players! (solo content)- Two new dungeons available for groups at levels 25 to 30! (raid content)<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=63&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #2</b></font></a> (February 1, 2005)- New adventure areas have been unearthed! (solo/group content)- First round of advanced solo encounters added for soloers and small groups! (solo content)- New heritage quests: Golden Efreeti Boots and the Crown of King Tranix! (group/quest content)<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=72&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #3</b></font></a> (February 17, 2005)- More encounters added for soloers and small groups, including solo instanced dungeons! (solo content)- Four new level 50 epic raid zones have been added! (raid content)<font color="#ffcc00"><b><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=81&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00">Live Update #4</font></a></b></font> (March 8, 2005)- Experience a new level 50 epic battle in The Deserted Mine! (raid content)- Enjoy a new solo instance in the Commonlands: Valley of the Rogue Magi! (solo content)</p><p><font color="#ffffff"><font color="#ff9900"><b><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=90&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00">Live Update #5</font></a> (The Bloodline Chronicles)</b></font></font> (March 21, 2005)<font color="#ffffff">- The Bloodline Chronicles has arrived! (solo/raid/group content and quests)</font></p><p>- Experience a new solo/small group adventure in the Invasion of the Vale! (solo content)</p><p>- New level 50 heroic zone: Return to Nektropos! (group content)</p><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=105&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #6</b></font></a> (April 6, 2005)</p><p>- New quest paths available for adventurers in many outdoor zones! (Quests)</p><p>- Breaking news: A terrible plague infects Norrath! (Live Event)</p><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=124&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #8</b></font></a> (May 4, 2005)</p><p><font color="#ffffff"><font size="2">- Experience two new quest-based instanced adventure areas for soloers and small group players! (solo/small group)</font></font></p><p><font size="2" color="#ffffff">- Explore a new four-group level 50 epic raid adventure! (raid content)</font></p><p></p><p><font color="#ffffff"><font size="2"></font></font></p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=137&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #9</b></font></a> (May 26, 2005)- The quest to rescue the frogloks has begun! (raid/group content)<p>- Experience a new instanced adventure area in Everfrost! (group content)</p><p>- Explore a new instanced adventure area in the Feerrott! (group content)</p><p><b><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=152&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00">Live Update #11</font></a> <font color="#ff9900">(The Splitpaw Saga)</font></b> (June 28, 2005)</p><p>- The Splitpaw Saga begins! (raid/group/solo content)</p><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=164&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #12</b></font></a> (July 20, 2005)</p><p>- Mysterious activities around the mines of Norrath introduce our latest live event! (Live Event)</p><p><b><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=182&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00">Live Update #13</font></a> <font color="#ff9900">(Desert of Flames)</font></b> (September 13, 2005)- The Desert of Flames expansion pack is here! (Expansion... raid/group/solo content)<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=203&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #15</b></font></a> (October 19, 2005)- Explore a haunted house and face frightening fiends as Halloween comes to Norrath! (Live Event)<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=212&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #16</b></font></a> (November 9, 2005)- Griffon tamers are seeking your assistance in the Thundering Steppes and Nektulos Forest! (Live Event)<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=234&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #18</b></font></a> (December 20, 2005)- 'Tis the season for Frostfell time! (Live Event)<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=260&jump=true" target="_blank"><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Live Update #20</b></font></a> <font color="#ff9900"><b>(Kingdom of Sky)</b></font> (February 21, 2006)- The Kingdom of Sky expansion is here! (Expansion: raid/group/solo/quest content)- Player-versus-Player servers have arrived! (PvP - an entire new way to play the game)</p><p>Have the released many new zones lately aside from the expansion? it's slowed down, i'll give you that, but they are constantly offering new things to do in EQ2. Does WoW match this? hell no. They may throw in a new zone every patch, but they patch 1/2 to 1/3 as frequently as EQ2 does. This entire line of argument is pretty much moot.</p>

espmrred

04-06-2006, 07:16 PM

<p>Edit: Removed and posted in a new thread.</p><p>Message Edited by espmrred on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:18 AM</span></p>

Kurizok

04-06-2006, 07:42 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:<ul><li> you all equally. (Except for maybe Hoopdee... <font size="1" color="#330000">JUST KIDDING!</font>)</li></ul><div></div><hr></blockquote>There you have it, pwned in it's purest sence.

Lig

04-06-2006, 07:50 PM

<div></div><p>I have no problem with contested raid zones. I think those are a great challange and are a fine addition to the game. I also think that raising the level cap with every expansion does nothing but push everyone into the same zones, overcrowding them at first and not allowing people to enjoy themsleves. It is also destroying the feeling of "world" since your world becomes the expansion area and that is it. How many of us in high end guilds go back to Everfrost or Lavastorm for example? Not me that's for sure. How many go back to PoF... maybe a few more but not many I gaurantee you that. So the world is shrunk substantially. More content without lvl cap raises is a good idea.</p><p> </p><p>Here is what I CAN NOT agree with. Contested mobs needed for access to raid zones where quests HAVE to be completed. This leads to several things that I can't stomach. The major one is that high end guilds (especially really hard core ones) monopilize this spawn simply so that others can not get into the zone. If a mob is needed for an access quest then either make it instanced or make it spawnable if you are on that step.</p><p> </p><p>That's my 2cp anyways</p>

Gaige

04-06-2006, 07:57 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CrazedMutha wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>look at WoW and The Burning Crusade, they took their time and the hype is building towards what I'm sure will be a great expansion for them and they didn't need to rush it out in six months either. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<hr></div></blockquote><p>WoW is about the stupidest thing to compare too ever. It isn't without its faults. If anything its success makes its fault more glaring. Some nights if you go LD you stay LD. The que. NUMEROUS server issues.</p><p>Of course they aren't going to launch an expansion with all of that stuff happening. Probably why they just ordered a bunch of new hardware.</p><p>If you read any WoW fansite or their official forums it sounds a lot like stuff sounds over here. Players complain about the PvP ruleset, patches, quests, items, content or lack thereof and raids or the lack of those also.</p><p>So just don't go there.</p><p>As for expansion three rumor has it it'll launch a couple months outside the 6 month window, but we'll see.</p>

Madhatter

04-06-2006, 08:01 PM

Simply adding more zones spreads the population out too thin. It's nice to see a new tree now and then so I think new areas should be discovered, but I feel that this should only happen during full-fledged expansions with level cap raises to match.The best way to present new content and keep this game fun and interesting is simple.Increase the revamps of existing content.Increase the revamps of existing content.Increase the revamps of existing content.This serves several purposes.- It makes the world more alive. Changes in the existing zones show progress in the NPCs wars, allys are made and lost, certain areas are more dangerous, etc.- The game becomes more immersive. People inherantly try to learn the reasons for the change. This gets people interested in the stories of Norrath. Absolutely VITAL to any RPG's success.- It gives you reason to go back. I never went into the graveyard to level alts because I had already done about everything in there and found the zone to be blah. After the recent revamp, I spent hours, upon ours in there loving every minute of it.- It keeps the world area small enough to keep LFGs happy and keeps them from having to trek halfway across Norrath to meet the rest of their group.- It's FUN! I love the fact that I go into the graveyard that I spent hours grinding in long ago and am unsure if the corner I'm about to turn is safe for my alt.- It allows the dev team to add new content to the newer toons and alts of the world without breaking continuity.- It makes sense economically. Eliminating old content/drops from the world makes those items more rare. All the better for collectors browsing the broker.- Faster turnaround. Rather than having to envision something totally new for people from scratch, all zones already have a storyline. It's simply going to the next step in that story and adjusting the NPC spawn locations to match. Granted, it's not SIMPLE to do, but it's easier than creating new znes from scratch.Adding more raid content is good, but I think that a contunual remanipulation of NPC placements, zone boundries and item drops is the truest way to keep the entire game fun for everyone.

SugarGirl

04-06-2006, 08:49 PM

<div></div><p></p><hr><p><em>(When was the last time you expected input into how much time is spent on Jack's storyline in LOST because you paid a cable bill?),</em></p><p></p><hr><p>A HA HA HA HA HA!!!! This is AWESOME Ilucide! Mind if I palgerize it?</p><p>On a side note, with all of the stuff in KoS, plus all of the new stuff you have added in the lower tiers, all I need in order to keep myself busy 18 hours a day is my main and a lowbie alt. For those complaining about no content, buy a bicycle and get out of the house once in awhile. They devs are doing a fine job.</p>

pera

04-06-2006, 09:05 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:<hr width="100%" size="2"><blockquote>Illucide, that's a nice post from an experienced developer trained in the SOE ways of circumnavigating an issue and making it seem like the players have no right to complain.</blockquote><hr width="100%" size="2">First, my pseudonym, 'Ilucide', only has one 'L'.Second, I'm a designer. I'm not trained in anything, except designing content. I don't circumnavigate anything. That's my father's goal in life (he retired to sail around the world - see: dictionary entry for circumnavigate).Third, if you're stating that I'm somehow dodging an issue (which, doesn't really make much sense; realistically, if I wanted to dodge an issue, I wouldn't post on it), then I'm going to have to call shenanigans! The very first thing I stated in my post was that more raid content is being added. Unless I'm confused, <i>that's exactly what people have been asking for</i>. Yes? No?<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think its less of dodging and issues, as it is just not having a solid answer.But I would like to make a sugguestion on a way to possibly add more "content" to the game. This would be to introduces some form of MIssions into the game. Similary to the way Matrix Online or AO used to do, and which kind of were introduced in Eq1. Basicly you would go to an npc, they would tell you go (do something) and a instance, orgroup of instances would be made aviable to that pc (similar to LDoN in eq1) Now the 'instance' that would be givien the player would scale based on the players level, and number of parties in the group/raid. Of course what would be nice also if 'items/rewards' could be randomly generated based on the player(s) level/class, these items could follow a simple limitation of Max # stat, effect, mit, ext...Now these 'mission' npcs could be scattered through out norrath, in most of the overland zones, and the loot would scale with the difficualty of the mission.To me as a person that at times becomes quite bored with the game i think would really help with the problem of lack of 'content' on all levels. It would also be really cool if the 'instance' zones could be dynamicly created at the start of the missions so you would almsot alwasy have a differnt look and feel to the mission.</span><div></div>

Poids

04-06-2006, 09:31 PM

This is just my point of view, flame away:At launch EQ2 was completely broken. There was no class balance at all between classes.Bloodlines was released, almost no one used the zone and alot of people thought it was a waste of money.Splitpaw was released, good solo content, good group content and good raid content. Too bad we payed for it, but it was needed because there hadn't been anything new to do in T5 for a good while.The combat revamp was released at the same time DoF was released, I'm just happy I didn't have to *pay* for it like everything else.DoF was released... no itemization at all, broken raids and everything else was broken because of the combat revamp. One of the worst expansions I ever played.KoS was released and people were saying other people then the ones from DoF were developing it in hope that it wouldn't be as much of a disaster as DoF. Same people, which you can clearly see in zones like Ascent. Tons of people did NOT want the level cap, tons of people still wanted to be in DoF.If there was no level cap, and just more content, all these complaints would be nothing as we would see all the DoF content and the KoS content used by people. People still wanted to do stuff in DoF, and some people wanted more stuff to do. By not adding a level cap, you could've solved both problems. But oh no... we have to add that level cap and since the game is designed around tiers DoF was no longer any kind of challenge at all.That's the difference between WoW and EQ2... tiers and level caps. And of course WoW adds stuff in free patches, we pay for all the adventure packs and expansion packs. All the patches we get are to fix the broken content we payed for, all the patches they get are for broken content... that they didn't pay extra for. Not that I care too much about WoW, just think EQ2 could learn something from that.But to stay on topic... more raid content is good!<div></div>

Gaige

04-06-2006, 09:32 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Poids wrote:And of course WoW adds stuff in free patches, we pay for all the adventure packs and expansion packs. All the patches we get are to fix the broken content we payed for, all the patches they get are for broken content... that they didn't pay extra for. Not that I care too much about WoW, just think EQ2 could learn something from that.<hr></blockquote>Yup, because things like Spirits of the Lost were never added in a free live update.

NocteBla

04-06-2006, 09:37 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Poids wrote:And of course WoW adds stuff in free patches, we pay for all the adventure packs and expansion packs. All the patches we get are to fix the broken content we payed for, all the patches they get are for broken content... that they didn't pay extra for. Not that I care too much about WoW, just think EQ2 could learn something from that.<hr></blockquote>Yup, because things like Spirits of the Lost were never added in a free live update.<hr></blockquote>Also the 50+ Antonica and Commonlands raids. Oh, and this new T7 raid that's going in.

Poids

04-06-2006, 09:38 PM

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Poids wrote:And of course WoW adds stuff in free patches, we pay for all the adventure packs and expansion packs. All the patches we get are to fix the broken content we payed for, all the patches they get are for broken content... that they didn't pay extra for. Not that I care too much about WoW, just think EQ2 could learn something from that.<hr></blockquote>Yup, because things like Spirits of the Lost were never added in a free live update.<hr></blockquote>Indeed, I did like the zone, alot... and it was one of the good things they did. I would kill to get more zones like that, but it hasn't happened since DoF, which is just way too long. They are adding new content now at least, and while I'm not gonna complain about it... why didn't they just release it togheter with KoS?Edit: The point I was trying to make is, I liked T5 alot. More raids were added and there was alot of raid content to do eventually. DoF wasn't nearly as much and KoS didn't make it better. I was just venting my frustrations about paying for not having alot to do. Adding new content is good, and I hope they keep doing it. But I am kind of sick paying for expansions that I can't enjoy fully until several months into the game.Sorry about the rant.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Poids on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:43 AM</span></p>

ke'la

04-06-2006, 09:38 PM

<div></div><p>Since when is raiding a fraction of the game? The complaint is that the T7 content is not even close to comparable to the past expansions, infact you'll find that it's in a slow decline.</p><p></p><hr><p>I don't know sence LAUNCH this game is called everQUEST not Everraid. Yes, raiding is a sugnificat portion of the END GAME but guess what the END GAME is just that the END OF THE GAME, so all the rest of the game is NOT RAIDING and even in the end game Raiding is ONLY a Portion(like I said significat but just a portion)</p><p>Correct me if I am wrong but we have had 1 expantion other then KoS and in that expantion we had 3 contested overland 4x Raid MoBs, 1 Contest Raid zone and 2 raid instances(at launch of DoF). Looks like its about the same for KoS. BTW, adding a solo quest is easy as it does not entail things like creating and populating a zone, building a large over arching storyline for that zone, creating new named mobs(including there Raid lvl ablities), Iteamizing loot for the zone AND seperate Iteamization for the Nameds. All a solo quest requires is a storyline and a list of already in exsistance Mobs to kill.</p><p>BTW, just like there are players that play just for Raid there are other players that play for quests, and people that don't like and never raid, and then there are RPers that may do both. Sorry to burst your bubble but Hardcore Raiding is the Smallest of the Demigraphics of this game, thats why there are only like 3 or 4 hardcore Raiding Guilds per server(used to be 1 or 2 but then they merged servers).</p>

ChaosUndivided

04-06-2006, 09:43 PM

<div></div><p>EQ2 has Patched in just as many raids as WoW I'm sure.</p><p>The 3 18 Hour Instances (Zalak, Overlord, Arch Lich)</p><p>1 36 Hour Instance (Zek)</p><p>2 6 Day Instances (Spirts, Rognog)</p><p>1 8 Day instance (K'dal)</p>

Almeric_CoS

04-06-2006, 09:55 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>rozakk wrote:<div></div><div></div><div> </div><div>Well I hope this was clear, bottom line sony is STOP UPPING THE LEVEL CAP. In the end its just an artificial progress bar that doesnt mean anything, especially in this game where all ur spells are just carbon copies except for 1 or 2. Hit a mob 10% harder, have 10% more defense, but hey, the mobs have 10% more hitpoints and hit 10% harder now. IE its still the same stupid thing. Sony just ADD CONTENT, tahts what we want, NOT MORE LEVELS. And you will have urselfs a MUCH better game.</div><div><hr></div></blockquote><p>*buzzer* Nope, sorry, that's not a strong argument. You don't just want MORE content. You want new, increasing challenges, and new, increased rewards to go with them. Sure, figuring out the tactics to beat a new ubermob is fun and all, but you aren't likely to spend much time using those tactics if he doesn't drop anything anyone would use.</p><p>Increasing the level cap is no different than anything you would see in, say, in EQ1. In EQ1, new mobs will come out that will be the same level as the old ubermobs, but the new versions will "undercon" and hit 5-times harder than the old bosses. If you want to stand a chance at the new bosses, you first have to equip yourselves with the loot from the old bosses so you have the hitpoints, AC, mana, etc to outlast the new competition.</p><p>This is no different than levelling up.</p><p>In EQ2, you have combination of gearing up and levelling up, which at least provides some variety. And since grey mobs drop no loot, you also have the advantage of keeping the lower tiers open to fresh faces. Anyone remember stuff from EQ1 like single groups killing Vindicator with a Druid as tank, then logging on alts to twink the loot to? Not much point in doing that in EQ2 - the fact that the mob is grey gives you a good indication that your "accomplishment" is a total waste of time (short of quest credit, when applicable, of course).</p><p> </p>