Raids, and where has all the content gone. Where is it...

[Elro]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p><span><span>           </span>On behalf of many hardcore raiders I want to express my discontent as far as raid content in </span><span>Kingdom</span><span> of </span><span>Sky</span><span> and this expansion nearly as a whole.<span>  </span>My comments are not just my own but some of my guild mates as well as Im sure they will share the same setiment with a majority of raiders.</span></p><p><span><span>           </span>Let’s take a look at your creation of the game so far.<span>  </span>In the original EQ2 you had primarily daily instance zones.<span>  </span>These were created, and then revisited and implemented with a lock out timer.<span>  </span>All being 1 day, 2 days, or 6 days.<span>  </span>Total amount of raid zones.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">4 – 1 Day targets ( Echos of Time , Meeting of the Minds, Shattered Stillness Epic , Draydeks Chamber )</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">1 – 2 day targets (<span>  </span>Abandoned Mines )</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">4 - 6 day targets (<span>  </span>Darathar , the 3 Trials to Darathar )</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">8 – Contested mob targets.<span>  </span>Vox, Venekor, Cursed, Kra’Thuk, Nagalik, SolSek Fist.</font></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span><span>           </span>Then along came blood lines.<span>  </span>The most terrible expansion ever.<span>  </span>1 zone to do over and over and over for 1 mythical item based solely on tradeskilling.<span>  </span>Shorly after bloodlines was splitpaw.<span>  </span>While it had its merits, as well this was short lived and basically Imo wrecked half the game with the onslaught of people leveling in harclaves but that’s beyond the point.<span>  </span>So prior to DoF it broke down as follows</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">4) – 1 Day Targets ( Echos of Time , Meeting of the Minds, Shattered Stillness Epic , Draydeks Chamber )</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">1) – 2 day targets (<span>  </span>Abandoned Mines )</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">6) - 6 Day Targets (<span>  </span>Darathar , the 3 Trials to Darathar, Acts of War, Brutal Acts )</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">6) – Contested mobs.<span>  </span>Vox, Venekor, Cursed, Kra’Thuk, Nagalik, SolSek Fist.</font></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>So, if my math is correct that’s a total of 11 zones pre DoF and 6 contested mobs.<span>  </span>Again, Im not counting anything less than x 4 because most that are under x 4 are just daily exp’s or adventure.<span>  </span>So all in all if we are counting simply just targets that’s 17 targets ( For anyone getting [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with the repops of contested mobs keep this simple just make em weekly dammit ).<span>  </span>Or just by maths sake that’s 49 weekly targets breaking everything down.<span>  </span>Now, lets review T6 with the introduction of DoF.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">1 – 1 day lockouts ( Fountain of life, only counting this because it COULD be done daily if you were bored enough ).</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">0 – 2 day lock outs</font></span></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><span>5 -<span>  </span>6 day lock outs. ( Court of Al'Afaz , Gates of AhketAken , Pedastal of Sky , </span><span>Poets</span><span> </span><span>Palace</span><span>: THE RETURN , Lockjaws Lair )</span></font></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">3 ) – Contested mobs.<span>  </span>( Terrorantula, Siyamak , Barakah and No Im not going to count the 2 in Maj Dul )</font></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span><span>           </span>So, if my math is correct again that’s a total of 9 targets, or 15 weekly targets.<span>  </span>By simple math that’s a reduction in targets of nearly 70 %.<span>  </span>Not even close to enough content to keep guilds busy. <span> </span>Most were waiting for targets to become available waiting on lock out timers.<span>  </span>And 2 zones that were beta tested were never even released with the game.<span>  </span>Simply put a large flop.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Then comes </span><span>KoS</span><span>.<span>  </span>Lets review what </span><span>KoS</span><span> has to offer.</span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">0 – 1 Day targets</font></span></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><span>2 – 2 Day targets ( </span><span>Zantril </span><span>, </span><span>Vraksakin )<span>  </span><i>Im going to be nice and include these guys even though they are totally sub par.</i></span></font></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">3 – 6 Day Targets ( Pantrilla, Vemns Lab , Deathtoll )</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000"></font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">4 - Contested Mobs ( Hurricanus , Princes , Harla Dar, Outcast )</font></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Im not going to count Gore, Talen, or deathless.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>So comparing that again, that is a 55 % reduction again versus DoF.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">T5 Raid Content<span>  </span>= 49 Targets Weekly</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">T6 Raid Content<span>  </span>= 15 Targets Weekly</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff0000">T7 Raid Content = 7 Targets Weekly</font></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>So, with all the BS out of the way.<span>  </span>Where has all the raid content went?<span>  </span>While content has changed from daily instances to weekly lock outs is fine.<span>  </span>What isn’t fine is the time definition for raiding.<span>  </span>Each zone and mob has a time element tied to it.<span>  </span>And to be blunt what you are creating to offer ( Albeit more indeph content ) is not constituting enough actual time to keep guilds busy.<span>  </span>Don’t get me wrong and make every dam thing like Gore, Talendor, FoL ( Requiring camps prior ), but instead test our abilities and offer more raid content period.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>So far in </span><span>KoS</span><span> you get the following raitings</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Zantril – F.<span>  </span>Sucks, why make a mob this easy,<span>  </span>Hell Im Only counting him cause hes x 4</span></p><p><span>Vraksakin – F … See above comment</span></p><p><span>Pantrilla – F…. Damm how easy is it to see if Harla Dar is up.<span>  </span>Hail Pantrilla, yup she is.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Vemns Lab – C.<span>  </span>Cons :<span>  </span>Not nearly long enough to progress through.<span>  </span>Shared Loot Tables on 2nd to last guy and other named guys.<span>  </span>And Combined loot tables?<span>  </span>I love seeing loot drop off common names and final bosses.<span>  </span>/sarcasim off.<span>  </span>Not enough named for a serious dungeon crawl.<span>  </span>I seen the lab in the line up and seriously was excited to see some old school EQ 1 content.<span>  </span>This left me asking that’s it ?</span></p><p><span>Pros :<span>  </span>Interesting encounters and effects off each named, but nothing to write home about.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Deathtoll – C<span>  </span>Cons :<span>  </span>Not nearly long enough to progress through.<span>  </span>Not nearly enough named mobs.</span></p><p><span>Pros : 2 Mildly interesting encounters that we haven’t defeated yet.<span>  </span>You earned your way to get here.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>So, now the constructive part.<span>  </span>This may go a bit but as Im now on lock out / no contested up for 6 days I could care less.<span>  </span>What you guys really need to do is start making TIERS within your Tiers for expansions.<span>  </span>I can only think of 1 example.<span>  </span>Take a lesson from Planes of Power Expansion from EQ1.<span>  </span>All your access quests were hidden within raid zones with reasonable respawn ( This would be the equivalent of lock out ) timers.<span>  </span>How many zones were in Planes of Power?<span>  </span>12.<span>  </span>Every one of these had 2 sections.<span>  </span>An Exp area ( except time ) and a raid area.<span>  </span>Completion of 1 Tier lead to another tier.<span>  </span>After you completed all for Tier 2, you would be given access to Tier 3.<span>  </span>Etc etc…Currently again, what do we currently have?<span>  </span>1 Zone, maybe 2 if you want to count Vemns and a crap load of lock out timers with a serious lack of content.<span>  </span><font color="#ff6600">Developing content that will take your players </font></span><b><span><font size="3" color="#ff6600">TO</font></span></b><span><font color="#ff6600"> the next expansion rather than cutting short is going to ensure that your customer base that you have stays with you rather than explores the possibilities of other games</font>.<span>  </span>I will give you a prime example.<span>  </span>Prior to PoS how many guilds/ raid alliances defeated court of Alla.<span>  </span>A lot.<span>  </span>How many completed Djinn Masters Prism Pedestal of Sky?.<span>  </span>Not many.<span>  </span>So yes your encounters have a natural tier to them and progression, but albeit there isn’t enough sub raids in each tier.<span>  </span>For each zone that you offer in 1 tier you should offer the same in the other tiers with <b>enough content to keep guilds OUT OF LOCK OUT.<span>  </span></b>I would categorize DoF in the following.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Tier 6.1<span>  </span>- Court of Al'Afaz , Gates of AhketAken</span></p><p><span>Tier 6.2<span>  </span>- Poets Palace the Return, Fountain of life</span></p><p><span>Tier 6.3<span>  </span>- Pedestal of Sky, Djinn Master Prism.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span><span>           </span>Now if you have a guild whos at pushing the bring of 6.2 guess what they got 4 zones,2 challanging and 2 would be easier.<span>  </span>Why not offer enough content like 4 or 5 for each tier.<span>  </span>If you took this model and used it for T5 the same works, but at T7 its nowhere to be seen just because of a lack of content.<span>  </span>Your player base is more advanced than what you give them credit for.<span>  </span>You can’t base everything off when EQ started.<span>  </span>It took people time to learn there class, develop a network of friends, form/join a guild.<span>  </span>Now you have your players that are able to turn your levels with each expansion in no time flat.<span>  </span>If you had the ability to take only mains into consideration I would say that the nektulous server itself is probably at an average level of 65 for your fairly constant players.<span>  </span>It’s not going to take long for them to get to 70.<span>  </span>And then get into death toll they will be sitting in the exact same place I am now, On lock out of any content for 6 days.<span>  </span>Seriosuly sit down and look at a calendar for 1 week.<span>  </span>Here is what ya got.<span>  </span>Deathtoll one day, vemns the other.<span>  </span>That’s it.<span>  </span>2 of 7 days.<span>  </span>Can you justify that as seriously worth the content?<span>  </span>In comparison to T5 and T6 by what I posted above we are getting a lot less for the same price plus the extra 30 bucks to boot.<span>  </span>Don’t get me wrong, I don’t care about the money.<span>  </span>What I do care about is continuing to buy a product that keeps building substandard products.<span>  </span>What I want to do is give some valuable feedback to a company that did get most of its customer base from players who played EQ1 and wouldn’t mind if you stepped things up a bit.<span>  </span>Lets hope you address this quickly and give a real honest effort at making some raid content to satisfy your customers who have sat through your fixes, given you feedback.<span>  </span>and bugged your encounters / loot until they were working properly for your younger level players.<span>  </span>Now give us something in return.  More raid content than just 2 days a week at absolute tops.<span>  </span>You want some additional feedback, look me up at fanfair.<span>  </span></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Elrohn</span></p><p><span>Templar of Dissolution</span></p><div></div><p>Message Edited by Elrohn on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:21 PM</span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"><font color="#ff0000">Edited... 1 week later, and still not a response.  YOUR customers want a response.</font></span></p><p>Message Edited by Elrohn on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:09 PM</span></p>

[Dasein]

<div></div>Well, they are adding a new raid zone in LU22, but they also need to add a few more one-shot raid zones like Rognog, Drayek or Lockjaw, as these are great for weeknight raids.

[Atmosphear1993]

<div></div><p>There seems to be many doors that are not yet active in KoS.  I've read in another post that there were some zones that were not finished by Beta and will be added in slowly.  For example, there is a new raid zone being added LU22.  Another example: Halls of Seeing is still not active.</p><p>As for DoF: The entire expansion was incomplete and many many things were left out of the original design.  There were suppose to be 2 more overland zones (Anvil of Ro, Crags) and 1 more massive dungeon (Sunspires.)  I would assume many instances/raid zones were also cut along with the additional content that was left out.</p><p>I see the problem for expansion packs as follows: SOE wants to output a new expansion ~6 months.  This leaves a very small development window to create new content.  They plan on adding more then they can handle, and then they end up cutting a portion of the expansion in some way by the time Beta rolls around.  Not to mention, the expansions feel small compared to the content from tiers 1 - 5.</p><p>In order for an expansion to actually have all of the content avaliable from release, I think there needs to be a larger development cycle.  We can definately tell where SOE cut corners in KoS.  Its not just the lack of raids or missing content... It is the smaller things too (for example: armor/weapons STILL have reused textures/models, many of the zones use the same textures from previously made zones.)</p><p>KoS was more complete than DoF was.  But once again, not all the zones seem to have been completed by beta.  Hopefully, they will add new raid zones in future updates much like with what they are doing with LU22.</p>

[mallachi79]

<div></div><p>Elrohn,</p><p>  My guild has not progressed as far yet... but we will soon.   This is the best post i have seen breaking down the lack of content in KOS.  I hope that SOE listens...  I also came from EQ1 and enjoyed the tier system, good feedback!</p>

[Paradigm]

<div></div><p>You missed Urzyd the Undying for DoF contesteds.</p><p>He should count, no?</p>

[Schmoogles]

<div></div><p>Many posts have been made about this yet no one from SOE has replied to any of them. This is a very good post and it at least deserves some type of response.  A simple screw you or no soup for you would work but we get nothing.   :smileysad:   Well I guess there soup for us is that they add a new raid zone in the next LU which still is not enough. :smileymad: </p><p>LOL about those videos a simple wow. nuff said there. lol</p>

[HellRaiserXX]

<div></div>I would say you are beating a dead horse with this except for the fact that it is such a well written post and gives a clear picture of the issue at hand. You dont have Angler and Commune of Kdal on there and I spose you could count the X2 contested in tiers 1-5, that just makes the percentage ever larger.

[Supernova17]

<span><blockquote><hr>Paradigmer wrote:<div></div><p>You missed Urzyd the Undying for DoF contesteds.</p><p>He should count, no?</p><hr></blockquote>He shouldn't count.An Epicx4 easily 2 groupable, utilizing only 2 healers, shouldn't count lol. That fight lasts like under a minute with a full raid.About Angler and K'dal, yes those are just more of what we're lacking in this expansion. Instanced quickie raids (not the clear trash and weaksauce named for 2 hours to get to the final dude instances), with halfway decent loot tables and 6 day lockouts would be far more preferable than nothing.</span><div></div>

[Ishbu]

<div></div><div>Yeah Im going to have to agree, the OP and the first reply were great.  Well written, nice breakdown, not singling out or berating a raiding style but rather including them all, yet we still continue to have no response.  BUT at least we get dev comments on threads asking where are the vikings. </div><div> </div><div>EDIT - over 1/4th of my guild was scheduled to attend the fan faire and as of now I am pretty sure all but 1 person has cancelled and backed out.  This is in direct response to the lack of raid content.  Thought I would mention this since again the devs seem to care deeply about the fan faire as every dev seemed to post multiple times on a therad saying "who is going to fan faire"  despite ignoring all the threads that bring up actual issues in game.</div><p>Message Edited by Ishboozor on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:10 AM</span></p>

[zo]

<div></div><div></div><div><strong>A+ Post</strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div><strong>To the Devs: Dont think the poster is the only one feeling this way. Were a guild on another server and we all feel the same. We are frustrated and bored silly. Were not even a hardcore raid guild. We only raid 3 to 4 times a week and never even get a shot at contested mobs because they go down by the big guilds who camp them and know there spawn times.</strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div><strong>Id like to add that I agree with the "Planes of Power" expansion from EQ1. It gave plenty to do and was for the most part one of my favroit expansions ever. When the uber hardcore guilds finished a zone, they moved up the ladder which would free up the other zones for the smaller guilds. It let everybody work at there own pace.</strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div><strong>I like the game but would leave in a minute if something better comes along.</strong></div><p>Message Edited by zoix on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:44 AM</span></p>

[Ishbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>zoix wrote:<div></div><div></div><div><strong>...would leave in a minute if something better comes along.</strong><hr></div></blockquote>Ive heard that more times than I can count in the last 3 days.

[rek6779]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ishboozor wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div>EDIT - over 1/4th of my guild was scheduled to attend the fan faire and as of now I am pretty sure all but 1 person has cancelled and backed out.  This is in direct response to the lack of raid content.  Thought I would mention this since again the devs seem to care deeply about the fan faire as every dev seemed to post multiple times on a therad saying "who is going to fan faire"  despite ignoring all the threads that bring up actual issues in game.</div><p>Message Edited by Ishboozor on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:10 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Good point. An acknowledgement of the issue would be welcome and appreciated.</p><p>Also, good to know that when there's another game breaking/quest line bug (see the bugs in the Claymore line) that we'll have to wait for a weekend while the developer's party here in Atlanta. It's sad when I decide not to shell out the money to go when it's in my own city, but if I wanted to see propoganda, I'd watch cable news channels.</p><p></p>

[Sanju]

This is a big issue, as evidenced by the number of threads started about it. Here's just a few that are on the page 1 of various forums.Kingdom of Sky forum: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=kingdomofsky&message.id=10256" target="_blank">Lack of Raids</a>Combat Discussion: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=98838" target="_blank">Where have all the raid mobs gone?</a>Zones and Population: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=zones&message.id=7661" target="_blank">WTB t7 raids!</a> , <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=zones&message.id=7969" target="_blank">Instanced Raid Zones</a>All of those (just on the front pages, mind you, I could find more by digging) deal with the lack of raid content. NONE of them has received a "red name" response, despite many of them being several pages long.Additionally, several threads highlight some pretty big problems with the current raid content in KoS (Temple of Scale, Ascent, Ravascet Isle, etc.). <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=98907&view=by_date_ascending&page=5" target="_blank">Why Does KoS Reward Zerging over Skill?</a> <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=99130" target="_blank">T7 Raids SOE You need to wake up pls</a><div></div>While I may not agree with everything said in some of these threads, they all have one thing in common: <b>there is not enough raid content</b>. There's not enough for casual guilds, there's not enough for hardcore guilds -- there's simply not enough. Adding one zone (presumably on a 3-6 day timer) won't stop the boredom. We need more, and we need some kind of acknowledgement that there is a problem and you guys are working on solving it -- sooner, rather than later.

[Gaellen]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Ishboozor wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>zoix wrote:<div></div><div></div><div><strong>...would leave in a minute if something better comes along.</strong><hr></div></blockquote>Ive heard that more times than I can count in the last 3 days.<hr></blockquote>DITTO.We've reached the stage where people log in to see what we're doing, and log back out again when they hear that it's probably Ascent since it's the only thing open.  And I honestly can't say that I blame them, one little bit.I know that neither the EULA nor our monthly $15 give any of us the right to expect an answer here, however, I'd like to hope that the developers would have the decency to respond with least a sign of what they intend for the future of this game.  As of right now, it appears that the future involves less and less raid content overall, large zones with long timers, and quests involving contestables. If that's not the case, telling us now would certainly keep more of us around to wait for changes. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Gaellen on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:44 AM</span></p>

[Gaellen]

Oh, and for the comparison chart, it seems worth noting that although PPR required epic mobs for access, a comparison is in order:PPR:- requires a scale which can be found by a 4-6 person group once per day- "finding" requires about an hour- mob can be popped every 15 minutesDeathtoll:- requires a 100% contestable   - mob drops okay loot, so multiple guilds interested in killing it   - mob is required for other quests   - mob only pops once per week   - idol mob (to get there) frequently bugged/not spawnable- requires 2 semi-contested, timed mobs   - initial mobs (effigies) spawned by eyes with a drop rate of 1 per day (if even that)   - initial mobs can only be spawned once per day   - secondary mobs can only be spawned once per day IF THE SERVER HAS RESET   - with only a 50-50 chance of spawning the mob you need, you could repeat this for a while to even get the mob you wantIt's apples and oranges.  Any guild who COULD kill Barakah or Siyamek got into PPR.  You could always go along and take a shot at it.  Now it's about guild that can get online at weird hours, or who can put up with the mind-numbing horror of Ascent, or who at the very least haven't [Removed for Content] off the badass raiding guild on their server.I'm sorry, I guess I missed what part of that was meant to be fun.<div></div>

[Koltur]

TES:Oblivion is a great way to spend some time that you would otherwise have devoted to Ascent of the Awakened or Temple of the Scale...I also believe that having quest updates attached to contested mobs isn't very nice either, and random farming, spawning of quest update mobs in Ascent is more painful then having teeth pulled.I much tend to prefer the way T5 was organized over the following T6 and T7 zones, it just seems as if T5 was 'Fun', whereas T6/T7 were/are too much like.. well, not Fun as such.

[WardenOfDo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ishboozor wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>zoix wrote:<div></div><div></div><div><strong>...would leave in a minute if something better comes along.</strong><hr></div></blockquote>Ive heard that more times than I can count in the last 3 days.<hr></blockquote>DO NOT ANY OF YOU even ALLUDE to the Game Which Must Not Be Named or else your signature-making powers will be STRIPPED FOREVER</div>

[Ishbu]

<div>Things like this: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Non-Gameplay&message.id=320963#M320963" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Non-Gameplay&message.id=320963#M320963</a></div><div> </div><div>absolutely frustrate the hell out of me.  If you want to joke around and have fun fine, but at least address real issues first.  You cannot give me one good reason why the numerous threads on this issue go ignored as far as the players can tell and that gets 2 red name replies in a day!</div>

[Gaellen]

<div></div>... wow.  Sigh.Hey!  Maybe if we mention that The Game Which Must Not Be Named has ninjas, pirates <i>and </i>vikings in it, we'll get a response here.Ish - Ninja's or Pirates? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Gaellen on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:17 AM</span></p>

[Ishbu]

<div></div>Pirates, they like to go on RAIDS!!!!!!!!!

[HellRaiserXX]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ishboozor wrote:<div></div>Pirates, they like to go on RAIDS!!!!!!!!!<hr></blockquote>roflmao, that was unbelievably clever.  A dev needs to respond to this just because of that. LOL, Im still laughing.

[Pendulous Richa]

<div></div>Feh, Vikings are way cooler.  Pirates were just loot whoors.  Vikings not only raided, but they constantly went out to seek new content, arriving first in America (Ok, besides the Indians, but they don't really count <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  In fact, you could say that the Vikings were the vanguard of European exploration of America.

[Ishbu]

<div></div>Vikings wasnt a choice in this thread.  But seriously can I please get some raid content?  This is the third straight day with nothing to do.  And no, I am not doing ascent, we all have deathtoll access, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ascent, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] the mobs with a billion hp, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty loot off the subbosses, and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] farming it to spawn gorenaire/talendor so i can merchant their loot again.

[hoop]

<div></div><p>  This is the first time in a long time i didnt want to log on EQ2. Ive been in a Hardcore raiding guild since this game has been released for the most part and the game has been very enjoyable till about 2 weeks ago. When i realized that my alt has become my main, and believe me it was not my choice.</p><p>  Log in and what do we have to do, nothing 5 nights out of the week. Lab is a pretty fun raid but its the "courts" of KOS with an extreme unproportioned <font size="2">risk </font><font size="3">vs</font><font size="5"> reward. </font><font size="3">It looks really cool also, its just to bad i saw its for 10 days in a row running a single group instence. Its sad when i am most excited about doing a starter raid because it will give the best reward for the time we put in, which is about 2 hrs. </font></p><p><font size="3">   Then there is ascent, lets be honest once we all have our acess to death toll no one in their right mind is goin back for raid purposses.</font></p><p><font size="3">  Finally there is the all weakly Death toll. Who ever did the art for this zone you did a great job, best look i have seen in the game. Who ever did the loot, you either did have enuf time or you are just not good at what you do.</font></p><p>Ohh ya then there are the contested 2 that you will 3 times a month, if use you the 8 day respawn timer as a middle ground.</p><p>I Thank you for reducing raid content by half each expansion.</p><p> Hoopdee</p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p> </p>

[Ishbu]

<div></div><div>Lol, you know what I seriously do these days?  I stand afk on ravasect island just to make every guild who has a full group of lvl 70's sweat a little bit like Im real concered about the monolith mobs.  Its quite the sight seeing 1-4 people from 5-6 different guilds standing there like those are some coveted mobs or something.  Im not even there and if the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] things spawn Ill never know because I see no reason to be anywhere near my keyboard most of the time these days.</div>

[Pendulous Richa]

<div></div><p>But compare the rewards of the Lab versus Courts of Al'Afaz and it comes up wanting badly.  Courts had good/decent loot dropping from every named and in a 2-3 hour raid window you could come up with ten usable legendary/fabled items.</p><p>Conversely we spent 6 hrs in Lab and were lucky to get 2 relic armors and 2 other useful gears.</p><p>Honestly, I'm frustrated as hell and ready to give up on MMORPGs for a while until V...something better comes along.</p>

[Schmoogles]

<div></div>I hated Ascent farming the stuff to get Talendor/Gorenaire and then they make you harvest things on the first two floors of Ascent for the Claymore quests.  /ugh LOL anyways back this thread I know someone is reading this from SOE, why don't you have a dev post there thoughts on this subject.   Blackguard has made a couple posts on a couple different threads that needed some type of attention as I see this thread needs some type of attention.  I said this before I will even take a simple comment like your a gnome you should go delete your toon now, or we are working on adding content it takes time we are also working on our next exp pack so bare with us, or you raiders don't make up enough of the paying customers so we are going to redo the level 20 armor quests again, then after they work on that they will add new content maybe./cry 

[Mordacion]

<div></div><div></div><div>I'll be short and to the point with my first statement: The tier 7 raid content is pathetically lacking in quantitity, quality and fun factor.</div><div> </div><div>Tier 5 raiding was excellent. On any given night you had a minimum of four targets and for the full week could expect anywhere up to 50 encounters if you could mix in a contested or two.</div><div> </div><div>Tier 6 raiding was fairly good. There was a decided lack of contested mobs compared to tier 5. There was a great lack of short-reuse raid zones. Silent city was horrendously boring, but at the least you could get a *very* few nice fights in there. The big 6-day zones like Gates, Courts and Pedestal were great fun. PPR was good except for the areas with the mobs that had utterly no point except to bog down the raid and induce massive consumption of alcohol so you could put up with the mind-numbingly boring plow through their ridiculous HP totals and get to the rest of the good content. DMP was just stupidly hard.</div><div> </div><div>What we really need from the devs in a nice blend of tiers 5 and 6 to make raiding truly fun again. Here is what I would consider an fairly ideal raid situation:</div><div> </div><div>1 Silent City type contested zone just to fill empty times and offer a place for newer raiding guilds to hone skills. Loot should be slightly better than instances group zone Legendary and have a relatively high chance to drop master spells off named creatures as a bonus and a help to the new raid guilds.</div><div>3-4 Single day lockout instanced raid zones similar to the ones in tier 5. The zones should be doable in 30 minutes - 1 hour once the strat is known and have no more than 2 named targets. Loot should be noticeably better than the 1 open raid zone.</div><div>1-2 Three day lockout zones requiring access gained by killing targets in the 1-day zones. Zones should be roughly 1-2 hours to complete once the strategy is learned and have up to 3 named targets. Loot should be better than the single day zones with a few markedly better but rarer pieces for a bonus.</div><div>3-4 Six day lockout instanced zones in the style of Spirits of the Lost, Courts, Gates and Lab of Lord Vyemm. The loot in these zones should be by far the best on the zones. Encounters should be unique like in Labs. Zones should take roughly 3-4 hours to complete once the strats have been learned.</div><div>5-6 Contested mobs with interesting strategies needed. All should be outdoor spawns or deep in open instanced heroic dungeons as they were in tier 5 with many and Urzyd in tier 6.</div><div> </div><div>Oh, and as a final note, please no more trash mobs with gigantic HP. They are NOT fun.</div><div> </div><div>This is a game, and as such is meant to be fun and entertaining. Guilds should not be punished by excrutiating grinds thorugh mobs with huge hp and no real purpose but to be in the way and kill time in the zone.</div><p>Message Edited by Mordacion on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:54 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Mordacion on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:01 PM</span></p>

[Tenkaze Kodainoch]

<div></div>I Agree with everyone here add more [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] Content or i [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en quit this piece of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] game. Im so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en bored nothing to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en do. What the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] am i supposed to do with my lvl 70 necro sit around and do [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]? ADD MORE CONTENT OR I QUIT.Very [Removed for Content] of necro make me spend 30 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en dollars on kos expansion to do absolutley jack [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<div></div><p>Message Edited by Tenkaze Kodainochie on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:04 PM</span></p>

[HellRaiserXX]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Tenkaze Kodainochie wrote:<div></div>I Agree with everyone here add more [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] Content or i [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en quit this piece of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] game. Im so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en bored nothing to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en do. What the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] am i supposed to do with my lvl 70 necro sit around and do [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]? ADD MORE CONTENT OR I QUIT.Very [Removed for Content] of necro make me spend 30 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en dollars on kos expansion to do absolutley jack [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<div></div><p>Message Edited by Tenkaze Kodainochie on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:04 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Please do quit, people like you are the reason devs dont respond to threads like this.  When all people are doing is just complaining, swearing, and offering nothing contructive Im pretty sure they pass em over.  This is a good thread, the OP has a good contructive and well thought out point, dont ruin it because you feel you need to scream profanity to get attention.  If you could delete everything you said that would be super. Have a nice day.<p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:46 PM</span></p>

[Lord Montague]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>HellRaiserXX wrote:<div></div><div></div>Please do quit, people like you are the reason devs dont respond to threads like this.  When all people are doing is just complaining, swearing, and offering nothing contructive Im pretty sure they pass em over.  This is a good thread, the OP has a good contructive and well thought out point, dont ruin it because you feel you need to scream profanity to get attention.  If you could delete everything you said that would be super. Have a nice day.<p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:46 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I'll second that.  The truth is, there are many people whom there is no pleasing.  A change is made, improving something in the game but it turns out it's not quite what they expect and they're up in arms about how much it sucks (why do I get the sneaking suspicion Lycaeum will be this way?).</p>

[Pendulous Richa]

<div></div><p>While I certainly disagree with the swearing, there needs to be a decision made at the top of SOE (unlike some people I blame the MBAs at the top of the food chain, not the developers who, honestly, have tight deadlines to work with and only so many man-hours) as to whether they want to produce sufficient raid content to keep their most active customers happy or design their product with more of an effort for the casual gamer (more quests, subquests, and World Events similar to COH).  Right now this expansion has the feel of a mish-mash that serves to satisfy neither. </p><p>I guess the bigger question is this; I give Sony $240/yr ($15/month plus 2 $30 expansions) for the right to play this game and, until this expansion and its lack of raid content I was quite happy to do so.  Now the very real question I have to ask is, is this product worthy of my money.  While this may sound like an arrogant question realize that it is a budget consideration like anything else.  I do not have pretense that any other MMORPG is better, though I have mild hopes for the game to come.  So the question is, realistically, between SOE and no MMORPG.  Honestly, the question is becoming a lot harder than I expected.</p><p>To be fair, even if KOS had been perfect, people would have left, and I might be in the same situation.  People get bored over time, and KOS, even with more raid content, would be hard pressed to stay fresh.  However, the game is wanting in so many areas, that its now becoming an effort to log in, and other distractions that I used to blow off for raid time I now blow off raids to do (this might be a healthy thing tbh).</p><p>I guess where I am personally is this, the game is losing its interest quickly, and sacrificing raid content for their 2 expansion/year goal is adding to the aggravation.  I guess I am looking for SOE to give me a reason to want to stay, and I'm not optimistic it will occur.</p><p>Thanks for the soapbox.</p>

[Gaellen]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Pendulous Richard wrote:<div></div><p>I guess the bigger question is this; I give Sony $240/yr ($15/month plus 2 $30 expansions) for the right to play this game and, until this expansion and its lack of raid content I was quite happy to do so...</p><p>However, the game is wanting in so many areas, that its now becoming an effort to log in...</p><hr></blockquote>YES!  It really really is, and I miss "it" - that game I actually liked to play with my friends - quite a bit.This expansion has a fraction of the raid content it did in the past, from being able to raid 3 hours daily and 10 hours on weekends, AND STILL NOT HIT IT ALL AND NOT COUNTING CONTESTABLES, to being able to raid for 10 hours, total.  It's junk.  Utter junk. At this point I'm honestly not sure how long I can convince the hubby, my friends, guildies, and even myself to bother holding out hope.  Dozens of threads with pages of replies, and still nothing to indicate we're wrong in thinking this BS will continue for many expansions to come.I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of any type of response at all.  Pirates ftl.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Gaellen on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:34 PM</span></p>

[HellRaiserXX]

<div></div>What SOE needs to do is add a few things here and there to keep us busy and then spend extra time on the next expansion to make it really good.  I am looking forward to the adventure pack come April 15 because it is designed entirely for raiders.  SOE better make sure that this doesn't flop because a lot of people are going to give up and leave if it does.  Even pushing it back somewhat to allow more time to test it, get out the bugs etc.  I dont think people would mind that much, but from the trend that has immerged from DoF to KoS it seems SOE cares more about meeting the deadlines they set for themselves than making a truly quality product. Like many people have said if something better comes out there is going to be a lot of people leaving if SOE doesn't get their butts in gear.

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>HellRaiserXX wrote:<div></div>What SOE needs to do is add a few things here and there to keep us busy and then spend extra time on the next expansion to make it really good.  I am looking forward to the adventure pack come April 15 because it is designed entirely for raiders.  SOE better make sure that this doesn't flop because a lot of people are going to give up and leave if it does.  Even pushing it back somewhat to allow more time to test it, get out the bugs etc.  I dont think people would mind that much, but from the trend that has immerged from DoF to KoS it seems SOE cares more about meeting the deadlines they set for themselves than making a truly quality product. Like many people have said if something better comes out there is going to be a lot of people leaving if SOE doesn't get their butts in gear.<hr></blockquote>Adventure pack? Huh??

[HellRaiserXX]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p><span class="time_text">Ill remove it for now until I find out for sure for sure</span></p><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:14 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:14 PM</span></p>

[rek6779]

<div></div><div>Anyone else find it oddly amusing that even when they're releasing something about an issue posted all over the forums, it's hardly communicated? I for one, peruse the forums, the net, etc. and haven't heard a darn thing about this, until your post.</div><div> </div><div>Guess I should check that Community News forum more often.</div><p>Message Edited by rek6779 on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:01 PM</span></p>

[vinterskugge]

<div>That was an April Fools joke.</div>

[HellRaiserXX]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div>That was an April Fools joke.</div><hr></blockquote><p>hmmm, thats a mean joke with all the talk about lack of raiding going on heh, prolly why they did it.</p><p>boy I feel like a t ard now, its ok go ahead and point and laugh.  Apologies if I got anyones hopes up lol</p><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:23 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:24 PM</span></p>

[Pendulous Richa]

That was mean....funny as hell...but mean.<div></div>

[gilmonn]

<div></div><div>At least with only 2 days of raiding, I now have 5 days to play the game which will not be mentioned.</div>

[Kurizok]

<div>I really thought KOS was well planned out, hind sight 20/20 though..... we all got pwned.</div><div> </div><div>But hey!  There's hope, just wait a few more months k?  I don't see people hanging on from my standpoint.</div>

[Budgiette]

It was hard enough keeping players in game T6 - T7 is almost impossible!  I recruit to keep the numbers up in guild, however its very disheartening when members complain of being bored and the number logging in to game is decreasing dramatically.  We fill our raid schedule with t7 and have even gone back to T6 for members aa, however, how long are members going to keep logging in when the raid schedule has to include content they played last expansion?  T4/T5 was definately a lot more fun!  It is sad and not one of  us can blame the members that suddenly decide that the game really has no T7 content to keep their interest going, and decide to take an extended break in the hope it improves, or simply close their accounts.  If we concentrated only on T7 content then the guild drops back to raiding 3-4 days a week - noone in their right minds would log in daily knowing that for the next 4 hours they will be sitting in front of their computer  with their minds screaming at how boring loot farming mobs in the same zone over and over again is.  Sad, but I think we are going to see a lot more raiders leaving the game in this expansion then we have ever seen in the past.<div></div>

[WardenOfDo]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>If SOE can make jokes about putting in an adventure pack for raiders they obviously KNOW we are starved for raid content but still won't give one reply to the 1000+ posts on the topic?</p><p>Kind of a slap in the face.</p><p> </p><p>EDIT: By that I mean a SERIOUS reply not Blackguard's "At this time, if you've done every quest, killed every mob, and conquered every zone in the game, I will comp your account." There again is that whole "go do green quests and try that tier 4 group instance you skipped and just, you know, ENJOY SOLO CONTENT OKAY?" mentality that does not address the desire of MANY people to actually continue to PROGRESS their character in a meaningful fashion. If you are making a game where soloers can have fun doing just solo content, and groupers can have fun doing just heroic content, make it so raiders can have fun doing just raid content.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by WardenOfDoom on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:00 PM</span></p>

[Kurizok]

<div></div><p>There will be no answer to the 1000+ posts or the 10000+ posts on topic because this was planned from the beginning.  Somewhere the decision was made to push it through like this, and that person or people will not apologize or implement any drastic change, ever.</p><p>In my book this is where SOE screws up with their player base, they do it every time.</p><p>Look at the track record, how many people left after T6 that they coerced right back into the game with KOS?  Only this time you fool someone the second time they'll make you the fool.</p>

[Edward Longshank]

<div>Good post, T7 raiding has some fun encounters, but [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it only takes 2 days to kill everything. We need more content! Why not take a lesson from the good amount of content that was in T5. T5 was great, lots of different encounters and a lot to do, because of all the contested you always had to keep an eye on them when you weren't open for anything else. Combine the amount of 1 day instances and contested of T5 with the weekly long instances of T6 and you have a great mixture of content and a lot of it.</div>

[gilmonn]

<div> I will not agree that tier 5 was great.  I remeber it was quite boring also.   Most instances could be done in less then a half hour...the only reason we had 7 days of content was because you could spread it out, but this left you with a very short amount of raiding every night.  I think the great times people remeber about tier 5 was the fact that you could do something everynight, albiet very very short nights.  Our guild came to the point of doing most of the instances all in one or two nights.  In KoS even if you spread out your content thin as possible, there is barely content enough for three nights.  </div><div> </div>

[gilmonn]

<div></div><div>weee acuatly four posts</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by gilmonn on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:29 PM</span></p>

[WardenOfDo]

<div></div>DUDE posting your message 4 times does not make it more RIGHT

[Edward Longshank]

<div></div>That may be, but there is no doubt that T5 had a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] load of more content then T7. There were boring times in T5, but nothing even close to how boring T7 already is.

[Traldan Omegafyre]

See you all in the Game Which Must Not Be Named.<span>:smileywink:</span> |  |  |/ / /<div></div>

[Riversideblues]

<div></div>you know, i've watched one guildy go and there are about 4 more that i can deffinately tell <font size="5">WILL</font> go unless someone gets their act together, i know fanfaire is comming along and that's all fine and good, but leaving this issue un-adressed doesn't mean it will fix itself. this isn't even high end guilds that have nothing to do, i sit around all day doing writs and listening to people who are in semi casual raiding guilds say "wow, there's nothing to do."  and then to have the bloody oddasity to make an april fools about <font size="5">SOMETHING YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY END UP DOING!!!!!</font> is big of a slap in the face that was to the raiding community, that's and even bigger slap in your own facesdo you have ANY clue about how bad it looked to have the front page of 2 very high end guilds say "went to wow, soe needs to get their heads out of their butts" beucase you know what, no matter how good this <font size="5">ONE</font> raidzone you plan on putting in is, the list of high end guilds that quit to other games will get much much longerso far we have <font size="6">MALICE</font> and <font size="6">ASCENDANCE</font>, and i garentee that this list is going to get much much longerfunny, another thing, i know high end players in wow, and never have i heard a guild say "wow sucks, went to eq2" evvveeeerrrso how about instead of mocking your raiding player base you listen to what they're asking, because once that "game that shal not be named" comes out, no matter how bad it is, you're going to get a huge cut in your player base and your money flow (seemingly the only thing you care about)<font size="4">so how about getting it in gear and putting the raid zones you have planned for lu 22 / 23 out <font size="7">ASAP</font>(im not kidding like within a week) because honestly that's the only way you're going to be able to save any of your lost player base</font>-tan(ready to quit)brigand-dissolution@nektulos<div></div><p>Message Edited by Riversideblues on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:05 AM</span></p>

[vinterskugge]

<div>The April Fools was a member of NPU, not SOE.</div>

[scl]

Casual raider here... and I concur, there's [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] all to do in this game. And before one of the smartasses says "So why don't you leave then?" - too late, I already did <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Dev's sort something out for the poor saps that will put up with your lack of content.

[Ligal]

<div></div><div></div><div>SOE please do something about this, I really like the game and I put so much time into it.I've played it since day one and would really hate to see myself leave. But when our whole guild is sitting on our [Removed for Content] not being able to have any fun,people are gonna start leaving. I'm gonna have to 2nd the guy up there and say "If there was another game out, I'd be there".</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Nanur,Dissolution</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>P.S. I don't care if you charge a extra 5,10, 20$ for a expansion that just has raid content in it or whatever, just something to RAID!! Give us the content NOW not in a month. And [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is up with that dev in NPU?</div><div> </div><div>This is what i edited....I'd like some kind of info regarding this thread very SOON and I'm sure 75% of your customers do too.</div><p>Message Edited by Ligaluz on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:52 AM</span></p>

[Callidi]

<div></div><p>I can't agree more and often wonder what is talked about in those Dev meetings.  I mean it is obvious that they need to retain people from leaving the game, but then they give us nothing to do come lvl cap.  Speaking of lvl cap, don't raise it every dang expansion and making old expansion content useless.  See thats thinkng!  Add a new expansion, with new raid content and keep the old as well.  Wait!!!! that would add more things to do and not less each expansion, what kind of brain fart is that.  Think a bit harder in those meetings please.  We want more things to do, not less.   AA's were a joke, Raid Content is a joke, whats next another guild lvl cap raise with no reward?  Is it possible?  Isn't SOE a rather large company, and could afford more folks to jam out content, bug fixes and new ideas? </p>

[Pendulous Richa]

<div>It really pains me when my guild leader, who is among the most gung-ho raiders I know is frustrated with having to go hit t6 content because there is nothing else to do.  It bugs me even more when I see an insanely overloaded server (Blackburrow post-merger) moving quickly to ghost town status as more and more people either leave or just log on a lot less.  I am not saying that WOW is any better (I do know people who have left there) or that Van...the game that must not be named will be better, but SOE has, IMO, cheated the high-end fans with this POS expansion.  I am staying through LU22 most likely, but this raid zone had better be worth it or I will be cancelling my account.  I could deal with the bugginess, but the simple lack of content is insane.</div>

[Faynne]

Yes the raid content needs to be increased... badly. It is very disappointing to log in and have nothing to do but Ascent farming.It is extrememly hard to find contestables up since server merges, with so many raiding guilds now on each server. But that aside.SOE dropped the ball when creating KOS raid zones. The majority of mobs being contested inside the likes of TOS and Ascent, means guilds are running into each other constantly. The lag due to so many in a zone, makes fighting almost impossible. Training happens, wether intentional or not, because of the sheer numbers in the small areas. These zones need to be instanced!But that only gives us something to do one or two nights a week. T4 & 5 at least could keeps us busy for a couple hours EVERY night.SOE has done a fine job of dealing with the solo content. But for those of us that love to raid there is now almost NOTHING for us to do. So we grind quests for a while, get bored and log. Or go play an alt.Just adding one zone (as has been announced) is a bandaid. This will add, what , one other night a week? YAY 2 nights of raiding!!The OP has made all the points that need to be addressed and I do hope that someone from SOE prints it up and sends it around to the dev team.To anyone reading this that says "Well you rushed to 70" .. We love to raid and to raid you have to be high level. And there is just NOT the raiding material here right now. If SOE has the raid content in, we will be out of your way doing what we like to do instead of being in your way.

[Riversideblues]

well, maybe once all the devs are back from fanfaire and they notice that they're making a little less money becuase raidguilds keep going to wow they might notice and try and fix the problemwait fix the problem? suuure, like that's going to happensoe, ill give you this, quality, kos is fine, quantity? i don't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing think so, all this time is being put into adding more solo content but i'd like you to show me ONE, just ONE person who has finnished all the solo content, becuase i can think of a guild on almost every server that's finnsihed all the raid content other than  DT and mutagenicsoe you're running out of time and this isnt going to fix itself-tanbrigand-dissolution@nektulos<div></div>

[Traldan Omegafyre]

WIll someone please complain at Fan Faire?  Loudly?Since obviously the forums aren't quite getting through.<div></div>

[Gaellen]

FINISHED!  Hah!Here's one key thing about the difference between group content and raid content.  You "finish" quests.  You "finish" instances like Czaels or Sepultur (at least after one or two farmings).  You don't really ever "finish" a raid, you might beat it, but generally  you always go back.  We always did everything in t5.  We always did most things in t6.  There's ONE thing in t7 (2 if you have deathtoll) that are actually worth doing regularly.Seriously.  In all previous teirs I really cannot think of a whole lot of raid content that was "finished" simply by the act of beating it once.  Barakah and Siyamek in Maj'dul, possibly, although most guilds would still kill them again because the loot was okay, the chance at really really good loot was there, and it was fun.  Even in DOF we were quite happy to "finish" lockjaw every week, Gates every week, FOL whenever we could, and so on, because it was still something to do that was fun, frequently rewarding, and <i>there</i>.Once you "finish" Ascent I can't imagine ever going back.  Who would want to?Nothing in Temple is even worth going back in for, other than Harla if she's up.Vyemm is only open once per week and we're already destroying loot for lack of a class that can take it.That's it.  That's our content.  And people wonder why raiding guilds are disbanding.<div></div>

[Ishbu]

<blockquote><hr>Gaellen wrote:That's it.  That's our content.  And people wonder why raiding guilds are disbanding.<hr></blockquote>Or why servers had to be merged after only a year.....

[Lyvid]

<div></div><p>Since you're all talking about vikings anyway, Odin would prolly be pleased if you all did like I'm considering to do and started playing Age of Conan : Hyborian Adventures (<a href="http://www.ageofconan.com/" target="_blank">http://www.ageofconan.com/</a>) by norwegian FunCom. Looks to be a really cool game, more PvP and sorta FPS oriented than EQ2, and looks to be pretty different alltogether.</p><p>Seems to be worth a try, since EQ2 has totally lost it.</p>

[OneBadAli]

<div></div>For starters they should just delete Ascent, worst raid zone ever. Worst idea of a contested raid zone ever. Worst idea of a fun and challenging zone EVER. BTW this is the worst raid zone ever, k???k

[vinterskugge]

<div></div>The problem with Temple of Scale is there is no point if Harla isn't up.  Which makes is a viable zone to raid for about 30 minutes of every week - for the whole server.  What is the point in having a whole zone that's only used for half an hour a week?  Because that's what it is.

[Elro]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><p><font size="3">Well after a couple of days I am returning to revisit this post.<span>  </span>I realize that fanfaire is going on, but I’m hoping that a dev or designer spots this. ; I want to remain on the positive/constructive side that this will eventually land in the hands of someone who has the ability and can find/utilize the resources needed to make changes.<span>  </span>I’ve got a couple ideas that hopefully someone can sit back and mull over.<span>  </span></font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3"><span>           </span>The 1st x-server tell I got was about 45 minutes after this thread went up.<span>  </span>Upon talking with this person we both had talked quite a bit about Risk Vs Reward, Time Sink Vs Time Investment, and other general raid BS.<span>  </span>One thing that kept coming back up was the actual time of raids in general.<span>  </span>Most zones the 1st time in may/can take up to 3 hours.<span>  </span>I can say confidently that most zones after through 1 time getting your AoE times down / Mob Strategies / Pull strategies ( If applicable ) take most of the zones down to beatable in 2 hours.<span>  </span>This here is where half the problem is.<span>  </span>The raid zones are too short.<span>  </span>Even for light/casual raiders the zones are too quick and too easy after 1 or 2 times through.<span>  </span>I can say confidently that your lighter raiding guilds that are attempting Vemns are able to get through or to Vem in 3 hours.<span>  </span>Seasoned guilds are clearing it in a lot less.<span>  </span>This right here proves half of the problem ( Time Element to Keep Busy ).<span>  </span>The other half of your problem is zone reuse or lock out.<span>  </span>I will be honest and state I am not one in favor of ever locking out a zone.<span>  </span>Follow me on this.<span>  </span>The art work is great, the pathing is manageable.<span>  </span>Why lock us out.<span>  </span>Why not rework the loot table to allow the zone to be constantly open, except have the named in a separate instance.<span>  </span>Lets say you have Venms Lab as one instance ( Full named pop with trash ), and Vemns minions laboratory ( Just trash ).<span>  </span>In the instance “Vemns lab” you have a full pop, with a 6 day lock out.<span>  </span>In the “minions laboratory” just trash that have the ability to drop trash tier raid loot ( see below a little later ) on an 18 hour lock out on zone in.<span>  </span>Do you see how this would be advantageous to both the gaming community and to moderate advancement?<span>  </span>Take a look at the loot tables I put together below as an example.</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3" color="#ff0000">Current Loot Table Example.</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p></p><p><font size="3"></font></p><font size="3"><img src="http://eq2.ataxiareign.com/datas/users/16-untitled.jpg"> </font><p><font size="3">What would be nice to see instead is small upgrades.<span>  </span>So instead it would look something like this.  <span>  </span></font></p><p><font size="3"><span></span></font> </p><p><font size="3"><img src="http://eq2.ataxiareign.com/datas/users/16-untitled2.jpg"></font></p><p><font size="3"> So you would get the following progressive order :</font></p><p><font size="3">T6 Fabeled. </font></p><p><font size="3">T7 Raid Trash raid mob</font></p><p><font size="3">Raid instance Mini Boss x 4 named</font></p><p><font size="3">Raid instance Boss x 4 named</font></p><p><font size="3">Contested x 4</font></p><p></p><p><font size="3"></font></p><font size="3"></font><p><font size="3"><span>           </span>My thoughts behind this are simple.<span>  </span>Utilizing content that you already designed the artwork, mobs, pathing, music, interface for.<span>  </span>Why utilize something different.<span>  </span>This would be a fix that you would have over 90 % of your work already completed.<span>  </span>You can meet your expectations of content to complete very easily with copy and pastes and then subtract out some mobs.<span>  </span>You could easily do this to Vemns lab.<span>  </span>This is just one example.<span>  </span>The other is ascent.<span>  </span>People only go into Ascent for 2 things, deathtoll and claymore.<span>  </span>Now imagine the possibilities with epic combinations in the rest of the zones.  Nest, Lair, Ascent... Each with its own epic instance of both trash and lock out.  This would be content that would satisfy your RAIDING customer and CASUAL customer.  </font><font size="3">Now this idea is just a temporary fix.<span>  </span>With the loot tables already released and out don’t go chopping away at loot to make stuff fit.<span>  </span>You will only upset people. Take a look at where items could be created and squeezed in-between on the appropriate tier..<span>  </span>If not, different stats and saves on pieces.<span>  </span>Until a good tier set up for each expansion is set up, this problem will show itself again in the next expansion.</font></p><p><font size="3">    Now everything above was just about loot and adding another instance to zones you already had.<span>  </span>Lets talk about quests.<span>  </span>You mention Epic to anyone who played EQ1 it was a raid function.<span>  </span>Sometimes a “find all your friends and pull all your favors function”.<span>  </span>I don’t see this in EQ2.<span>  </span>Not a bit.<span>  </span>What I find hard to fathom is that in EQ1 raids were 75 people, in eq2 they are 24.<span>  </span>Roughly 1/3rd the size.<span>  </span>Great! Im cool with 24, not to large not to small.<span>  </span>But for gods sake get some quest lines back to just Epic based encounters.<span>  </span>Just one example.<span>  </span>Sprinkler of Nem Kah from EQ1 ( sp ).<span>  </span>Starts with just 1 quest that was solo, then 1 quest that was group based.<span>  </span>Then multiple names across multiple zones that were guild based and that were challenging.<span>  </span>Every one of these encounters had 3 things.<span>  </span>They were unique encounters, they were challenging, they had the chance to reward your guildmates who helped you finish your quest.<span>  </span>Ask any EQ1 player.<span>  </span>Your EQ1 1.0 Epic or Prismatic 1.0 <span> </span>or God King Scepter.<span>  </span>I think many will answer my eq1 epic for the reasons I stated.<span>  </span>In EQ2 it seems that individuality of class specific quests is really gone and everything is stream lined to press towards multiple people rewarded at one time.<span>  </span>Well, this is one place that you should ignore that and take a look at bringing back epic quests.<span>  </span>This is part of the content that people will enjoy.<span>  </span>If you want to offer prismatic 3.0 and 4.0, great.<span>  </span>That may be something a little more on the casual side, but offer in-depth quests that are class specific.<span>  </span>Im sure that you would be surprised on how many would under take that quest because of the prestige. </font></p><p><font size="3">    Last piece.<span>  </span>AA’s and individuality. <span> </span>I know this is off topic of raids, but this post is sort of a conglomerate about raids / lack of content / and plenty of time on our hands so here goes.<span>  </span><span> </span>I can’t remember the exact wording of the announcement of AA’s but I think I could dig it up.<span>  </span>It was to the effect that this would give you the option to customize your class to your specific needs.<span>  </span>While the heart and effort was there, the AA’s current system is too short lived.<span>  </span>Who isn’t maxed now in AA’s, or has minimal drive to go out and top off the 50.<span>  </span>I’m at 43 I think, and my drive to finish off to 50 is non existent. <span> </span>It’s not because it’s hard, it’s not because I can’t, it’s because the skills and setup of the AA system all together weren’t what your player base was asking for.<span>  </span>The AA’s suggestion could only come from one player base, and that would be a player from EQ1 who was familiar with it.<span>  </span>Take a look at the below link on what is available on AA’s and compare EQ1s list to what we have.</font></p><font color="#3333ff"><ul><li><b>2 Hand Bash</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will allow you to use your Bash skill while wielding any 2-handed weapon.</li><li><b>Acrobatics</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will reduce the damage that you take from falling.</li><li><b>Act of Valor</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins; Max - 1; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This noble ability will allow you to transfer all of your hit points to a target player, killing you in the process.</li><li><b>Adv. Trap Negotiation</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will reduce the reuse time on your sense and disarm trap skills.</li><li><b>Alchemy Mastery </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability reduces your chances of failing alchemy combinations by 10, 25, and 50 percent.</li><li><b>Ambidexterity</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 9; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability increases your chance to use dual wield successfully.</li><li><b>Archery Mastery </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability increases your archer damage 30, 60, and 100 percent.</li><li><b>Area Taunt</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 15 mins; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will allow you to taunt everything in a small radius.</li><li><b>Bandage Wound</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities. First Aid at Level 3; This ability will give you increased healing ability per bandage by 10, 25, and 50 percent.</li><li><b>Bestow Divine Aura</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 144 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability gives you the ability to cast a Divine Aura spell on a Player target, temporarily rendering the target invulnerable.</li><li><b>Body and Mind Rejuvenation </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must have improved Natural Healing and Mental Clarity at level 3; This ability will give you one additional point of mana and hit point regeneration</li><li><b>Call to Corpse</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to cast a no component summon corpse spell.</li><li><b>Cannibalization</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 3 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Mental Clarity at Level 3; This ability will give the caster a new, massive Cannibalize spell.</li><li><b>Celestial Regeneration</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Healing Gift at Level 3.; This ability gives you the ability to cast a large heal over time spell at no mana cost.</li><li><b>Channeling Focus</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability reduces the chance of your spell casts being interrupted.  The ability levels reduce your interrupts by 5, 10, and 15 percent.</li><li><b>Chaotic Stab</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will allow you to do minimal backstab damage on your backstab attempt, even if you are not positioned behind the monster.</li><li><b>Combat Agility</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability increases your melee damage avoidance by 2, 5, and 10 percent.</li><li><b>Combat Fur</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability increases your chance to land a critical hit. Non-Warriors will nearly match the original critical hit abilities of Warriors, while Warriors will remain significantly ahead of other classes.</li><li><b>Combat Stability </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability increases melee damage mitigation by 2, 5, and 10 percent.</li><li><b>Critical Mend </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities First Aid at Level 3; This ability gives you a chance to perform a superior mend 5, 10, and 25 percent of the time.</li><li><b>Dead Mesmerization</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to cast an AE low resist mesmerization spell effective against the undead.</li><li><b>Dire Charm</b>  - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 9; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability gives you the chance to permanently charm an NPC.</li><li><b>Divine Resurrection</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 4320 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Healing Gift at Level 3; This ability allows you to provide a resurrection that restores 100percent Experience, all hit points and mana, and causes no adverse resurrection effects.</li><li><b>Divine Stun</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 9; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; Training in this ability grants your stun spells the chance to stun Level 60 or lower NPCs. Normal Resist rules apply.</li><li><b>Double Riposte</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will give you an increased chance to execute a double riposte 15, 35, and 50 percent of the time.</li><li><b>Dragon Punch </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability augments your dragon punch with the chance to automatically perform a knockback.</li><li><b>Elemental Form: Air</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will allow you to turn into a air elemental, gaining many of the innate benefits of the for, as well as some of the penalties.</li><li><b>Elemental Form: Earth</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will allow you to turn into a earth elemental, gaining many of the innate benefits of the for, as well as some of the penalties.</li><li><b>Elemental Form: Fire</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will allow you to turn into a fire elemental, gaining many of the innate benefits of the for, as well as some of the penalties.</li><li><b>Elemental Form: Water</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will allow you to turn into a water elemental, gaining many of the innate benefits of the for, as well as some of the penalties.</li><li><b>Elemental Pact </b>- Type: Passive.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability removes the component cost of summoning pets.</li><li><b>Endless Quiver </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 9; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability provides you a never-ending supply of arrows.</li><li><b>Enhanced Root </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability reduces the chance that a rooted NPC will be freed by your damage spells by 50 percent.</li><li><b>Escape</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 9; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will cause all NPCs to forget about you. If you are out of immediate combat, this ability will also make you invisible similar to your hiding ability.</li><li><b>Exodus </b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability gives you the ability to cast an instant casting, no mana cost evacuation or succor spell.</li><li><b>Extended Notes</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will increase your song ranges by 10, 15, and 25 percent.</li><li><b>Fear Resistance</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability grants you a resistance bonus to fear type spells of 5, 10, and 25 percent.  It also increases the chance of breaking fear earlier.</li><li><b>Fearless</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Fear Resistance at Level 3; This ability will make you permanently immune to fear spells.</li><li><b>Fearstorm</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; Allows you to cast an AE low resist fear spell.</li><li><b>Finishing Blow </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability gives you a chance to finish off an NPC that is below 10 percent health and fleeing with a single blow. (Non-Warriors must first train one level of Combat Fury to use this ability.)</li><li><b>First Aid</b> -  Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability increases the maximum that you can bind wound by 10 percent for each ability level.</li><li><b>Flesh to Bone</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 07 secs.; Max - 1; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to turn any meat or body part item into bone chips. You must hold the item or stack on your cursor. "Warning" This ability will use magical or no drop items if they are held on the cursor.</li><li><b>Flurry</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Combat Fury at Level 3; This ability will allow you to perform up to 2 additional attacks from your primary hand.</li><li><b>Frenzied Burnout </b>- Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to cast a buff on your pet that will cause it to go berserk, doing increased damage.  When the effect wears off the pet will explode, damaging everything around it.</li><li><b>Gather Mana</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Mental Clarity at Level 3; This ability allows you to recover all of your mana.</li><li><b>Healing Adept</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability increases the maximum effectiveness of your healing spells by 2, 5, and 10 percent.</li><li><b>Healing Gift</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability gives you a chance to cast a critical heal by 3, 6, and 10 percent.  A critical heal will double the healing value of the spell.</li><li><b>Holy Steed </b>- Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 01 secs.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability provides you with the power to call the ultimate holy steed to your side.</li><li><b>Improved Familiar</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 9; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability makes your Familiar immune to spells and more resistant to melee damage.</li><li><b>Improved Harm Touch</b>  - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability gives you a low-resist Harm Touch. Using this ability also uses your existing Harm Touch timer.</li><li><b>Improved Lay of Hands</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will run your Lay of Hands into a complete heal.</li><li><b>Improved Reclaim Energy</b> - Type: Passive.; Max - 1; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will increase the amount of mana returned to you when reclaiming your pet.</li><li><b>Innate Agility </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Agility by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Camouflage</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 07 secs.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to become invisible, nearly at will, without the need to memorize a spell.</li><li><b>Innate Charisma</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Charisma by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Cold Protection</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Cold Protection by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Dexterity </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Dexterity by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Disease Protection</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Disease by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Fire Protection </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Fire Protection by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Intelligence</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Intelligence by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Invis to Undead</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 07 secs.; Max - 1; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to become invisible to the undead, nearly at will, without the need to memorize a spell.</li><li><b>Innate Lung Capacity</b> -    Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability increases the amount of air you have by 10, 25, and 50 percent. </li><li><b>Innate Magic Protection</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Magic Protection by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Metabolism</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability decreases your food consumption by 10, 25, and 50 percent.</li><li><b>Innate Poison Protection</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Poison Protection by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Regeneration </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your regeneration ability by 1 point per ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Run Speed</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability will slightly modify your base run speed.  This modification does NOT stack with movement rate spell effects.</li><li><b>Innate Strength</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Strength by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Innate Wisdom</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 5; Cost - 1; Requirements: Level - 51; This ability raises your base Wisdom by 2 points for each ability level.</li><li><b>Instrument Mastery</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This Ability allows for improved use of all instrument types.</li><li><b>Jam Fest </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to sing your songs at a higher apparent level.  Note:  This does not allow you to sing songs that are actually higher then your level.</li><li><b>Jewel Craft Mastery </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability reduces your chance of failing jewelcraft combinations by 10, 25, and 50 percent.</li><li><b>Leech Touch</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability gives you a life tap harm touch. Using this ability also uses your existing Harm Touch timer.</li><li><b>Life Burn </b>- Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 144 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 9; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to cast a no-resist direct damage spell equal to that of your current hitpoints. The effect drains your life and provides a life bond effect that does 250 damage per tick, for 6 ticks.</li><li><b>Mana Burn</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 144 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Mental Clarity at Level 3; This ability allows you to do non-resistible damage in an amount based off of your current mana.</li><li><b>Mass Group Buff</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins; Max - 1; Cost - 9; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability turns the next group buff that you cast into a beneficial area effect spell, hitting everyone within its radius, at the cost of doubling the spell's mana usage.</li><li><b>Mend Companion</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 144 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to cast a Lay of Hands type spell on your pet.</li><li><b>Mental Clarity </b>- Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability increases your natural mana regeneration by 1 point per ability level.</li><li><b>Natural Durability</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability increases your maximum hitpoints by 2, 5, and 10 percent.  (The percentages are based off of your base hitpoints which include stamina and stamina effects.)</li><li><b>Natural Healing</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability raises your natural regeneration by one point per ability level.</li><li><b>Nexus Gate</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability gives you an instant-cast self gate spell to the Nexus.</li><li><b>Permanent Illusion</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows you to zone without losing your current Illusion.</li><li><b>Pet Discipline</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 6; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will allow you to give your pet a "hold all aggression" command.  The pet will not attack anything that attacks it or its master until explicitly told to attack.  Usage: /pet hold.</li><li><b>Physical Enhancemen</b>t - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will give you additional improvements in your natural Durability, Avoidance Boost, and Mitigation Boost.</li><li><b>Poison Mastery</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability reduces your chance of failing on a poison combination by 10, 25, and 50 percent.  It also reduces the time to apply poison by 2.5 seconds per ability level.  Once one point is applied to this ability, you will never again fail in poison application.</li><li><b>Purge Poison</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will remove all poisons from your body.</li><li><b>Purify Body </b>- Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 9; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability removes all negative affects from your body except for fear, charm, and resurrection affects.</li><li><b>Purify Soul </b>- Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Healing Gift at Level 3; This ability allows you to cast a spell that cures all aliments except for charm, fear, and resurrection effects.</li><li><b>Quick Buf</b>f - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability reduces the casting time of many beneficial spells that have a duration by 10, 25, and 50 percent.</li><li><b>Quick Damage</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Spell Casting Fury at Level 3; This ability reduces the casting time on your damage spells that have a casting time greater than four seconds by 2, 5, and 10 percent.</li><li><b>Quick Evacuation</b> - Type: Passive.; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability reduces the casting time on your evacuation and succor spells by 10, 25, and 50 percent.</li><li><b>Quick Summoning</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability reduces the casting time of your summoning spells by 10, 25, and 50 percent.</li><li><b>Rabid Bear</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 120 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability turns you into a Rabid Bear, boosting all of your offensive capabilities.</li><li><b>Rampage </b>- Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 15 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will allow you to strike everything in a small radius.</li><li><b>Rapid Feign</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability reduces your reuse time on feign death by 10, 25, and 50 percent.</li><li><b>Return Kick</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability gives you the chance to automatically perform a bonus flying kick on ripostes 25, 35, and 50 percent of the time.</li><li><b>Scribble Notes</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will reduce the amount of time that it takes you to memorize a song.</li><li><b>Singing Mastery</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability allows for specialization and improved use of your voice.</li><li><b>Slay Undead</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Combat Fury at Level 3; This ability will cause your criticals to inflict greatly improved damage versus the undead.</li><li><b>Soul Abrasion</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability gives you increased damage off of the lifetap procs that result from your self buffs.</li><li><b>Spell Casting Deftness</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability reduces the casting time of beneficial spells with a cast time greater then four seconds.  The ability levels reduce these casting times by 5, 15, and 25 percent.</li><li><b>Spell Casting Expertise</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability makes it impossible for you to fizzle a spell.  The first level affects all spells below level 20.  The second, on all spells below level 35.  The third, on all spells below level 52.</li><li><b>Spell Casting Expertise</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability makes it impossible for you to fizzle a spell. The first level affects all spells below level 20.  The second, on all spells below level 35.  The third, on all spells below level 52.</li><li><b>Spell Casting Fury</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability gives you a chance to land critical hits with your direct damage spells.  This ability increases your chance to score a critical by 2, 4, and 7 percent.</li><li><b>Spell Casting Fury Mastery</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Spell Casting Fury; This ability gives you an increased chance to score a critical hit with your direct damage spells.</li><li><b>Spell Casting Mastery</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability gives you an increased chance of making your specialization checks.  It also reduces your chance to fizzle (or miss song notes) and increases the chance to lower the mana cost for the spell by 5, 15, and 30 percent.</li><li><b>Spell Casting Reinforcement</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability increases the duration of beneficial spells that you cast by 5, 15, and 30 percent.</li><li><b>Spell Casting Reinforcement Mastery</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 1; Cost - 8; Requirements: Level - 59, Spell Casting Reinforcement at Level 3; This ability increases the duration of beneficial buffs that you cast by an additional 20 percent.</li><li><b>Spell Casting Subtlety</b> - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; After training in this ability, NPCs will notice your magical activities 5, 10, and 20 percent less.</li><li><b>Strong Root</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability will grant you the ability to cast an extremely low resistance Root-type spell.</li><li><b>Turn Summoned</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Spell Casting Fury at Level 3; This ability grants you an AE Fear DoT spell useful against summoned creatures.  Each ability level amplifies the damage.</li><li><b>Turn Undead</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability grants you an AE Fear DoT spell useful against undead.  Each ability level amplifies the damage.</li><li><b>Unholy Steed </b>- Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 01 secs.; Max - 1; Cost - 5; Requirements: Level - 59, Must spend 12 ability points in the Archetype Abilities; This ability provides you with the power to call the ultimate unholy steed to your side.</li><li><b>Warcry</b> - Type: Activated, Refresh Time: 72 mins.; Max - 3; Cost - 3; Requirements: Level - 59, Fear Resistance at Level 3; This ability will allow you to make your entire group immune to fear for a period of time based on ability level.</li></ul></font><p>Compare that line up to what is currently available and you see the shortfall and requirement in utilizing AA's for skills not wanted or needed.  Are you truly offering customization, or again picking a template for classes to have to subdue to for raiding<font size="3">.<span>  </span>If you really wanted customization, try that AA system with augments ( LDON Expansion )* Hint Hint *.<span>  </span>Customization is to truly be able to make your character work for you in what circumstance you put them into, not have difficulty finding a use for an ability that was forced upon us.</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">In closing these are the opportunities that you have Imo.<span>  </span>As I mentioned in my OP on this thread take a look at the planes of power set up.<span>  </span>Tier the expansion and have advancement appropriately.<span>  </span>This will keep your community of seasoned players to casual gamer’s content, not in an uproar over what you are lacking.</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">Last thing ….food for thought…..Always over exceed the customers expectations and you will have a customer for life, under mind them and they will be a customer lost.</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">Elrohn – 70 Templar of Dissolution</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">Alts : </font></p><p><font size="3">Gloi – 50 Something guard</font></p><p><font size="3">Hummtune – 60 Something bard</font></p><p><font size="3">Swapmeetlouie – 40 Something Conjurer</font></p><p><font size="3">Ragnorr – 40 something mystic</font></p><p><font size="3">Joowantit – 60 something provisioner</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">All on separate accounts out of vitality waiting patiently for something to do.</font></p></div><p>Message Edited by Elrohn on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:12 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Elrohn on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:15 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Elrohn on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:20 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Elrohn on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:21 PM</span></p>

[Riversideblues]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Elrohn wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><p><font size="3">Last thing ….food for thought…..Always over exceed the customers expectations and you will have a customer for life, under mind them and they will be a customer lost.</font></p></div><hr></blockquote>Every time an Elrohn posts and angel gets his wiiings-tanbrigand-dissolution@nektulos</span></div>

[Elro]

<div>One week later, and still no response.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div>we raided gates tonight for AA's, woot! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>You think that's bad?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><-- Mentoring down doing T5 raids.</DIV>

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mallachi79 wrote:<BR> <P>Elrohn,</P> <P>  My guild has not progressed as far yet... but we will soon.   This is the best post i have seen breaking down <STRONG>the lack of content in KOS</STRONG>.  I hope that SOE listens...  I also came from EQ1 and enjoyed the tier system, good feedback!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Actually there is no content more than raid content in KoS</P> <P> </P>

[Fistantantilus]

funny you mention eq1 and the cleric epic 1.0.  back when epics 1.0 were introduced they were [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard to do. it was a dream. I was an sk in eq1 too and the sk 1.0  epic Innoruuk's Curse, was perhaps the hardest epic to complete..  literally it took months to complete and beg for ppl to go to pohate and farm drakes with you to get the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ashenbone hide. eq2 was not designed to be eq1. as for pop which you so laud was the begining of the end for eq1. lots of ppl quit due to the backflagging to elementals and later for potime. was insanely hard to gather 75 ppl  so that was reduced to 54. they said from the pre -release of this game that it will not be as hardcore as eq1. so you should have known it when you started playing. I think you guys are trying to find from a game something that does not exist. and you will get frustrated even more trying to "find " it.  go play eq1. might not be as pretty (and they ruined my freeport with the crap cone revamp) but it is exactly what you are looking for. raid all day and night for every single thing, almost no solo content, infinite AA grind. the definition of never ending story. btw,  the bloodlines is my best ever expansion of the game <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  much <3 for vampires. <div></div>

[Stabnes]

<DIV>NM</DIV><p>Message Edited by Stabnes on <span class=date_text>04-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:42 AM</span>

[syous01]

This game is designed for casual players. That has been said from the beginning. Raiding 3 or more times a week is not very casual =p

[woolf2k]

<div></div>Quick! Someone call the whaaaaambulance... yo! I was just travelling through Permafrost and Lavastorm ... so how about gathering your raid crazy guild and getting rid of the x4 epic mobs... ...there... that'll give you something to do for a minute...and make me happy!<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Seriously though. I don't get it... SOE has provided you more content to explore and all you can do is whine about how there isn't enough... just silly, IMO.<div></div><p>Message Edited by woolf2k on <span class=date_text>04-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:23 PM</span>

[t0iletduck]

<div></div>Probably because killing grey x4's isnt too exciting for most lvl 70 characters and high end raiding guilds. Or even casual raiding guilds for that matter. Oh right, people are suppose to mentor down so they can go hit OLD content. Before posting a whaaaambulance reply, please keep in mind that this post is meant for the raiding population who desire additional fun and challenging content. If mentoring and hitting mobs from T5 is fun for you, then don't reply here as this post clearly isnt intended for you. I happen to agree with the OP, and would like to see more high end content. I'm pretty bored with the game now and like playing Oblivion or alts more than my main. EDIT: Thanks for adding Lyceum. It's a step in the right direction, even though we were bugged and missed out on the goodies, it gives my guild something to do besides lab or getting more guildies through the mark raid. <div></div><p>Message Edited by t0iletduck on <span class=date_text>04-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:59 PM</span>

[Elro]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> syous01 wrote:<BR> This game is designed for casual players. That has been said from the beginning. Raiding 3 or more times a week is not very casual =p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Soooooooo.......With this type of commnent, I can guess the game offers you content.  Go click on the description for KoS, read it , then read it again.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3 or more times a week.  Let me break it down for you very simply.  Ya ready?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lab = 2 Hrs if that</DIV> <DIV>Deathtoll = 2 Hrs if that</DIV> <DIV>New Raid zone = 1 Hr 15 Mins 1st time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Contested?  Ya want to even throw up any time at these cause they are pretty much on an exact timer, but sure, Give them an hour a piece.  There thats 3 more hours.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So... If my math is correct... Pull out your abacus, 2+2+1.25+3 = 9.25 Hrs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats not content.... Thats a [Removed for Content] poor excuse for an expansion.... As I stated, Im not the only one that feels that, but if you feel that your comments have any type of validity towards what you dont do when you play then continue to make an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of yourself.  Next post by me.  Reduce the solo content, Remove the tradeskill instances... Are you getting my drift.  Go get on a thread that where you have any type of knowledge of the content that many are talking about.......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Elro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fistantantilus wrote:<BR>funny you mention eq1 and the cleric epic 1.0.  back when epics 1.0 were introduced they were [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard to do. it was a dream. I was an sk in eq1 too and the sk 1.0  epic Innoruuk's Curse, was perhaps the hardest epic to complete..  literally it took months to complete and beg for ppl to go to pohate and farm drakes with you to get the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ashenbone hide. <BR><BR>eq2 was not designed to be eq1. as for pop which you so laud was the begining of the end for eq1. lots of ppl quit due to the backflagging to elementals and later for potime. was insanely hard to gather 75 ppl  so that was reduced to 54. <BR><BR>they said from the pre -release of this game that it will not be as hardcore as eq1. so you should have known it when you started playing. I think you guys are trying to find from a game something that does not exist. and you will get frustrated even more trying to "find " it.  go play eq1. might not be as pretty (and they ruined my freeport with the crap cone revamp) but it is exactly what you are looking for. raid all day and night for every single thing, almost no solo content, infinite AA grind. the definition of never ending story. <BR><BR>btw,  the bloodlines is my best ever expansion of the game <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  much <3 for vampires. <BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Heh, again.  Ask your players who have EXPLORED everything up to 70..... What else is there to do when you hit 70.  Alt?  Tradeskill?  Go for it.  Alot dont want to do it again on another character.... Why Spacing content to make it even remotely close to the next expansion works.... There is something seriously broke if you are done in a month.....That right there itself is the problem.</P> <P> </P> <P>With alot of other people saying the same thing not everyone can be wrong... But heres the bottom line... in PoP if you didnt progress, you didnt have to.  IT was up to you.  So why hate on what other people besides your self have for options.  It would be like me saying, go continue to play in perma frost, lava, and everfrost for 9 months.... Thats the bottom line to it.  I dont trounce what they do for single instances/ group activities.  But , they are lacking as far as content for anyone who wants to progress outside that boundary... Hence a MMORPG game, Not a consol game where its more benefical to solo than it is to group...</P> <P> </P> <P>And to awnser the flag about back flagging, you will always have that in any game.  If its flags/ access/ or gearing up.  You will always have attritition.  Thats guaranteed.  Bottom line its part of the game.  People will leave, people will come up.  The bottom line is how bad does your guild / friends want to play with someone and how good of a friend are you for helping them get caught up.... Thats just simple attritition....</P> <P><BR> </P><p>Message Edited by Elrohn on <span class=date_text>04-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:35 PM</span>

[Star]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> woolf2k wrote:<BR> Quick! Someone call the whaaaaambulance... <BR><BR>yo! I was just travelling through Permafrost and Lavastorm ... so how about gathering your raid crazy guild and getting rid of the x4 epic mobs... <BR><BR>...there... that'll give you something to do for a minute...<BR><BR>and make me happy!<BR><BR><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Seriously though. I don't get it... SOE has provided you more content to explore and all you can do is whine about how there isn't enough... just silly, IMO.<BR> <P>Message Edited by woolf2k on <SPAN class=date_text>04-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:23 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileytongue: This is not a discussion about content in general. I myself will whole heartedly say that as far as group content goes KoS is head and shoulders above original EQ2 and DoF. HoF is an awesome group zone, so is Den. I still don't mind going back to them now and again where as all the group zones in DoF became headaches really quickly. KoS <3 Group content.</P> <P>That, however, does not change the fact that there's not enough raid content that's at all fun to do. Until you're raided Accent or ToS you seriously cannot understand these zones. I had more fun doing x4 ring events in Silent City. We go to Accent or ToS and I want to log off or do other content rather than sit through it. I don't though because at the end Deathtoll awaits.</P> <P>The poster above said raiding 3 or more times a week isn't casual. My old guild considers themselves a casual raiding guild and they would like to raid 2 to 3 times a week.</P> <P>And in responce to a very old post:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaellen wrote:<BR>Oh, and for the comparison chart, it seems worth noting that although PPR required epic mobs for access, a comparison is in order:<BR><BR>PPR:<BR>- requires a scale which can be found by a 4-6 person group once per day<BR>- "finding" requires about an hour<BR>- mob can be popped every 15 minutes<BR><BR>Deathtoll:<BR>- requires a 100% contestable<BR>   - mob drops okay loot, so multiple guilds interested in killing it<BR>   - mob is required for other quests<BR>   - mob only pops once per week<BR>   - idol mob (to get there) frequently bugged/not spawnable<BR>- requires 2 semi-contested, timed mobs<BR>   - initial mobs (effigies) spawned by eyes with a drop rate of 1 per day (if even that)<BR>   - initial mobs can only be spawned once per day<BR>   - secondary mobs can only be spawned once per day IF THE SERVER HAS RESET<BR>   - with only a 50-50 chance of spawning the mob you need, you could repeat this for a while to even get the mob you want<BR><BR>It's apples and oranges.  Any guild who COULD kill Barakah or Siyamek got into PPR.  You could always go along and take a shot at it.  Now it's about guild that can get online at weird hours, or who can put up with the mind-numbing horror of Ascent, or who at the very least haven't [Removed for Content] off the badass raiding guild on their server.<BR><BR>I'm sorry, I guess I missed what part of that was meant to be fun.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>I couldn't agree with this sentiment more. It's one thing to make the ability to get into Deathtoll more difficult, but this is drudgery. You summed it up perfectly: "I guess I missed what part of that was meant to be fun."</P>

[ChaosUndivided]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> syous01 wrote:<BR> This game is designed for casual players. That has been said from the beginning. Raiding 3 or more times a week is not very casual =p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>WRONG WRONG WRONG.</P> <P>Liar.</P> <P>It has been stated MULTIPLE times by the devs SINCE BETA the game is designed for multiple playstyles.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P><SPAN class=genmed><B>Moorgard wrote:</B></SPAN> <P>Lots of good discussion here, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that different playstyles have to find ways to coexist in the world of EQ2. <FONT color=#ff9900>As developers, our job is to provide content that appeals to all kinds of players, whether they're casual or hardcore gamers.</FONT> But we don't want to artificially insulate people from one another; in the end, it falls upon each person to bring their uniqueness to the world and find the place that suits them best.</P> <P></P> <HR> <SPAN class=genmed><B>Moorgard wrote:</B></SPAN><BR><BR>At the same time, we intend to have lots of meaningful and immersive content that you can enjoy if you never want to think about loot and ubermobs. But if that's the way you want to play, part of that playstyle falls on you to make it work<FONT color=#ff6600>.</FONT><FONT color=#ff9900> Because you can't close your eyes and wish that competition and high-end guilds will go away--you have to acknowledge their existence,</FONT> but just make the world your own.<BR> <P></P> <HR> <P></P><SPAN class=genmed><B>Moorgard wrote:</B></SPAN> <P> I think our game is trying some of these ideas (specifically making fun content at all levels and allowing for shorter blocks of playtime to be meaningfull), but it is still very much centered around the idea of progression. <FONT color=#ff9900>Our goal is certainly to appeal to a wide variety of playstyles,</FONT> but I think imposing artificial constraints to reach such a goal is counterproductive in the long run.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P><SPAN class=genmed><B></B></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=genmed><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN> </P>

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChaosUndivided wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> syous01 wrote:<BR> This game is designed for casual players. That has been said from the beginning. Raiding 3 or more times a week is not very casual =p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>WRONG WRONG WRONG.</P> <P>Liar.</P> <P>It has been stated MULTIPLE times by the devs SINCE BETA the game is designed for multiple playstyles</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Heh, the only line I dislike more than the "EQ2 is for casual players only" one is the one where people insist that EQ2 is eventually meant to go to level 200.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[woolf2k]

Can I have some cheese with that whine?They'll get around to it...or haven't you noticed that the game's development has picked up some speed? I'm sure it's in the works. Hey! they just put a new raid in the last patch.<div></div>

[Riversideblues]

<div><blockquote><hr>woolf2k wrote:Can I have some cheese with that whine?They'll get around to it...or haven't you noticed that the game's development has picked up some speed? I'm sure it's in the works. Hey! they just put a new raid in the last patch.<div></div><hr></blockquote>get around to it? yeah but in a month we'll all be gone, if you haven't noticed most of the high end guilds are all done, man, the medium guilds are all done too, sony is ignoring raiders and it's going to be their downfall when we all quit and beta vanguard<img src="http://images6.theimagehosting.com/kiwis.gif"></div>

[Kurizok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Riversideblues wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> woolf2k wrote:<BR>Can I have some cheese with that whine?<BR><BR>They'll get around to it...or haven't you noticed that the game's development has picked up some speed? I'm sure it's in the works. Hey! they just put a new raid in the last patch.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>get around to it? yeah but in a month we'll all be gone, if you haven't noticed most of the high end guilds are all done, man, the medium guilds are all done too, sony is ignoring raiders and it's going to be their downfall when we all quit and beta vanguard<BR><BR><IMG src="http://images6.theimagehosting.com/kiwis.gif"><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yankow Tan, I'm starting to wonder... maybe this is part of the big plan of SOE evolution.  You see it works like this:</P> <P>Attract a ton of players -> [Removed for Content] them off, they leave -> Attract more players -> they complain saying hey [Removed for Content]? -> forum defamers call them whiners -> People complaining quit -> Defamers finally get to see content -> they complain saying [Removed for Content]? -> New forum defamers call them whiners -> New complainers quit.</P> <P>We're just gonna cycle through the population until everyone is gone, then we start a new game k guys?  Ready? Go.<BR></P>