Sick about Godking and 30 min timer

[ReviloTX]

<div>Something needs to be done about this.  I'm honestly surprised that I didn't see any info on this on the forums, but maybe he hasn't been done much by new raids since the change.  We killed Godking on our first try tonight, but only maybe 1/4 of my raid actually got their rod shattering updates.  I suspect this wasn't really talked about much before because there was no limit on how long you coudl take to get everyone their update.  Had we had more time, it wouldn't have been a problem to get the rest of the raid their update.  In fact, we cleared all the adds and went back up, only it was too late.</div><div> </div><div>I'm sure we weren't the first raid force to spawn a bazzillion adds while going through and stepping into the water to get our updates.  This needs to be fixed, and whoever designed this crap needs to be fired.</div>

[Dark_Sun]

<div>from my experience its quite possible to do it in 30 mins. 2-3 go up, rest clear poping adds. But if its not organised, it can be a problem.</div><div> </div><div>But i can see the reason for this changes - After you kill GK, you can spend there all day, zone in alts and complete quest for them. In fact you could complete quest for whole server by only killing GK once, just zone in new ppl, and zone out those who completed it.</div><div> </div><div>Maybe they should increase the timer, or perhaps change the way event works. Maybe change it so that you can complete the quest, only if you were in raid force and killed GK. Perhaps some corpse update should be needed.</div>

[BozEuge]

<div></div><p>there is a far simpler way to fix this :</p><p>. put godkill killing as a step of the quest (as it is for veyssel quest)</p><p>if done, no longer need of 30 min limit, only the people that really done the fight can get the update</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[KBern]

<div>We did Godking last night and 30 mins was enough time for everyone on the raid to get it and even bring in some people who could not fit on the 24 person raid.</div><div> </div><div>This was our first time also.  We just killed Power where he pops so when the GK and Armor came over, we beat them all down and where right there at the climby wall.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Signal9]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dark_Sun wrote:<div>from my experience its quite possible to do it in 30 mins. 2-3 go up, rest clear poping adds. But if its not organised, it can be a problem.</div><div> </div><div>But i can see the reason for this changes - After you kill GK, you can spend there all day, zone in alts and complete quest for them. In fact you could complete quest for whole server by only killing GK once, just zone in new ppl, and zone out those who completed it.</div><div> </div><div>Maybe they should increase the timer, or perhaps change the way event works. Maybe change it so that you can complete the quest, only if you were in raid force and killed GK. Perhaps some corpse update should be needed.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Or....Maybe just lock the damned instance to new players, as has been done in EQ1 PoP encounter in the oversized snow-globe.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[KBern]

<div></div><p>Yeah the way it works now is you get an update when you zone in and enter the door after using the eyes.</p><p>Then you only get another update when you can break your stick up near the pool where the godking is.</p><p>The only reason you have to kill the godking it seems is to move him from the spot.</p><p>I am curious if you could even pull the godking and actually have people theoretically run up and click while he is still alive.</p><p>That does seem backwards and easy enough to just change the last part, or add a last part that requires a godking death.</p>

[electricninjasex]

<span><blockquote><hr>BozEugene wrote:<div></div><p>there is a far simpler way to fix this :</p><p>. put godkill killing as a step of the quest (as it is for veyssel quest)</p><p>if done, no longer need of 30 min limit, only the people that really done the fight can get the update</p><hr></blockquote></span>I second that.  I see so many godking weapons all over the place, I have no clue which players actually earned them by doing the final big fight. Makes me sick personally.

[ReviloTX]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div>We did Godking last night and 30 mins was enough time for everyone on the raid to get it and even bring in some people who could not fit on the 24 person raid.</div><div> </div><div>This was our first time also.  We just killed Power where he pops so when the GK and Armor came over, we beat them all down and where right there at the climby wall.</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>Well kudos to you.  However, the problem wasn't getting to the climby wall.  That took no time at all, the problem occured with the 50 adds that spawned while we tramped through the water to get to the climby wall, and then again at the top as everyone stepped in the water.  A few lucky ones got their rod cast off, many did not.</p><p>Now that I know what happens and what to expect, it really wouldn't be a problem to avoid it if done carefully.  The point is, if you don't know whats going to happen it can become a HUGE mess very quickly.  I wonder how many of the first guilds that did this ran into the exact same problem we did, only they had more than 30 minutes to go back and clear the adds to get the rest of their raids updates.</p>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ReviloTX wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div>We did Godking last night and 30 mins was enough time for everyone on the raid to get it and even bring in some people who could not fit on the 24 person raid.</div><div> </div><div>This was our first time also.  We just killed Power where he pops so when the GK and Armor came over, we beat them all down and where right there at the climby wall.</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>Well kudos to you.  However, the problem wasn't getting to the climby wall.  That took no time at all, the problem occured with the 50 adds that spawned while we tramped through the water to get to the climby wall, and then again at the top as everyone stepped in the water.  A few lucky ones got their rod cast off, many did not.</p><p>Now that I know what happens and what to expect, it really wouldn't be a problem to avoid it if done carefully.  The point is, if you don't know whats going to happen it can become a HUGE mess very quickly.  I wonder how many of the first guilds that did this ran into the exact same problem we did, only they had more than 30 minutes to go back and clear the adds to get the rest of their raids updates.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah we knew about the water thing so went up in pairs of 2-3 people and the rest of the raid took care of the adds that popped from the water. </p><p>No mobs popped on top of the wall in the pool when we broke our rods for us, they all just popped on the bottom pool before the wall.</p><p>They may have changed it.</p>

[Ilucide]

Thought you might like to know, I just added 30 minutes of "immunity" from mummy spawns at the top of the Godking platform.<div></div>

[pera]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:Thought you might like to know, I just added 30 minutes of "immunity" from mummy spawns at the top of the Godking platform.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Heheh aww that was the fun part :-p, but good change :-p</span><div></div>

[curtlewis]

<blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:Thought you might like to know, I just added 30 minutes of "immunity" from mummy spawns at the top of the Godking platform.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Thanks. It didn't make sense that the minions of the Godking kept respawning after you killed him. The 30 minute window should be plenty now.

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>curtlewis wrote:<blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:Thought you might like to know, I just added 30 minutes of "immunity" from mummy spawns at the top of the Godking platform.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Thanks. It didn't make sense that the minions of the Godking kept respawning after you killed him. The 30 minute window should be plenty now.<hr></blockquote><p>I am not sure...we had no spawns on the top of the platform.</p><p>They were all from the water before the climby wall to the platform....</p><p>So making you immune up top doesnt seem to solve the spawn issue at the bottom....unless I am missing something.</p>

[ReviloTX]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>curtlewis wrote:<blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:Thought you might like to know, I just added 30 minutes of "immunity" from mummy spawns at the top of the Godking platform.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Thanks. It didn't make sense that the minions of the Godking kept respawning after you killed him. The 30 minute window should be plenty now.<hr></blockquote><p>I am not sure...we had no spawns on the top of the platform.</p><p>They were all from the water before the climby wall to the platform....</p><p>So making you immune up top doesnt seem to solve the spawn issue at the bottom....unless I am missing something.</p><hr></blockquote><p>We had numerous adds up top last night, it's the main reason most people didn't get their updates.  I'm fairly sure adds were spawning up top as well as down below.</p><p>Illucide, any chance the rest of my raid force that didn't get their updates last night can get them so we don't have to spend hours and hours farming eyes again/ (haha, I know fat chance right, but you always have to ask).</p>

[Kana]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:Thought you might like to know, I just added 30 minutes of "immunity" from mummy spawns at the top of the Godking platform.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Thank you for this change, but unfortunately for us we're still stuck with having to farm the eyes again.  I understand why the 30 minute timer had to be brought in, but after what happened to us last night, I beg you to consider some of the ideas others have posted and properly fix this encounter.  That was one of the most disheartening experiences I've had in a game....countless hours wasted.

[carlspackler]

<p> </p><blockquote><hr>ReviloTX wrote:<div>Something needs to be done about this.  I'm honestly surprised that I didn't see any info on this on the forums, but maybe he hasn't been done much by new raids since the change.  We killed Godking on our first try tonight, but only maybe 1/4 of my raid actually got their rod shattering updates.  I suspect this wasn't really talked about much before because there was no limit on how long you coudl take to get everyone their update.  Had we had more time, it wouldn't have been a problem to get the rest of the raid their update.  In fact, we cleared all the adds and went back up, only it was too late.</div><div> </div><div>I'm sure we weren't the first raid force to spawn a bazzillion adds while going through and stepping into the water to get our updates.  This needs to be fixed, and whoever designed this crap needs to be fired.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Live Update 20 introduced the 30 min timer:</p><p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Desert of Flames ***</font></strong>- Players who completed "A Final Note" and deleted "Delving Into Darkness" can now get "Delving Into Darkness" again from the Antiquitor.- You'll now have a greater chance to find pages for the books "The Poems of Alyarrah" and "Of Maj'Dul Am I."<strong><font color="#ff0000">- "Wrapping it All" Up can now be completed a maximum of 30 minutes after the Godking has been defeated.</font></strong></p>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>carlspackler wrote:<p> </p><blockquote><hr>ReviloTX wrote:<div>Something needs to be done about this.  I'm honestly surprised that I didn't see any info on this on the forums, but maybe he hasn't been done much by new raids since the change.  We killed Godking on our first try tonight, but only maybe 1/4 of my raid actually got their rod shattering updates.  I suspect this wasn't really talked about much before because there was no limit on how long you coudl take to get everyone their update.  Had we had more time, it wouldn't have been a problem to get the rest of the raid their update.  In fact, we cleared all the adds and went back up, only it was too late.</div><div> </div><div>I'm sure we weren't the first raid force to spawn a bazzillion adds while going through and stepping into the water to get our updates.  This needs to be fixed, and whoever designed this crap needs to be fired.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Live Update 20 introduced the 30 min timer:</p><p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Desert of Flames ***</font></strong>- Players who completed "A Final Note" and deleted "Delving Into Darkness" can now get "Delving Into Darkness" again from the Antiquitor.- You'll now have a greater chance to find pages for the books "The Poems of Alyarrah" and "Of Maj'Dul Am I."<strong><font color="#ff0000">- "Wrapping it All" Up can now be completed a maximum of 30 minutes after the Godking has been defeated.</font></strong></p><hr></blockquote><p>Um...thanks for letting us know about the 30 minute timer!</p><p>Oh wait...that is what the title of this thread is about. :smileysurprised:</p>

[Golembes]

<div></div><div>We had the exact same problem tonight <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Spawned a ton of adds not knowing what to expect, only a few people in the raid got their updates.  It is really frustrating to do all that work and have it all for nothing <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[molinaro]

<div>I understand why people would be frustrated, but at the same time I find it odd that some posts here are saying it's not right that they should fail on their 1st attempt?!</div><div> </div><div>Isn't learning what to expect a major part of raiding?</div>

[Golembes]

<div></div><p>I would have no problem failing on the Godking the first try and have to do it all over again. </p><p>I think what we are most upset about is we failed to beat the <em>arbitrary</em> 30 minute timer.  It was set up to keep people that weren't in the raid from getting their updates, but now people in the raid aren't even getting their updates.  SOE attempted to fix a problem and it is harming people that don't deserve it.  There are a many different ways they could have changed how the quest works to prevent people that weren't on the raid from getting their updates:  Some much more logical and fair ways.</p>

[AngusThorn]

<div>Yes Learning is GREAT!  thats half the fun of raiding: learning, adapting and developing your plan of attack.</div><div> </div><div>But when your faced with a 30 minute timer (that isn't even in the quest journal so you have no idea how much time you have left), not knowing what to expect, and then once you figure it out you only have time to get 6 folks out of 24 updated... does not make for a very fun experience.</div><div> </div><div>Now we are faced with getting the eyes once again... getting everyone together, and going at it once more with our knowledge of the previous raid.</div><div> </div><div>It didn't help that the adds poped both at the bottom and top of the climbable wall, doubling our fun.  We figured it out like I said... but the 30 minutes was just not enough time with all the adds we had to deal with.</div><div> </div><div>*Thumbs down*</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[ReviloTX]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>carlspackler wrote:<p> </p><blockquote><hr>ReviloTX wrote:<div>Something needs to be done about this.  I'm honestly surprised that I didn't see any info on this on the forums, but maybe he hasn't been done much by new raids since the change.  We killed Godking on our first try tonight, but only maybe 1/4 of my raid actually got their rod shattering updates.  I suspect this wasn't really talked about much before because there was no limit on how long you coudl take to get everyone their update.  Had we had more time, it wouldn't have been a problem to get the rest of the raid their update.  In fact, we cleared all the adds and went back up, only it was too late.</div><div> </div><div>I'm sure we weren't the first raid force to spawn a bazzillion adds while going through and stepping into the water to get our updates.  This needs to be fixed, and whoever designed this crap needs to be fired.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Live Update 20 introduced the 30 min timer:</p><p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Desert of Flames ***</font></strong>- Players who completed "A Final Note" and deleted "Delving Into Darkness" can now get "Delving Into Darkness" again from the Antiquitor.- You'll now have a greater chance to find pages for the books "The Poems of Alyarrah" and "Of Maj'Dul Am I."<strong><font color="#ff0000">- "Wrapping it All" Up can now be completed a maximum of 30 minutes after the Godking has been defeated.</font></strong></p><hr></blockquote><p>I knew about the 30 minute timer.  If you haven't done the zone before or don't have someone that told you exactly what kind of mess was going to be created when trying to get your update, most of the people in your raid are going to miss the update.  The change Ilucide put in will help, but it will still require some patience to make sure everyone gets their update.</p><p>The point of my post was that the 30 minute timer kept legitimate people on my raid from getting their update.  There should be a learning curve for learning how to kill new encounters.  There shouldn't be a learning curve for getting a quest update after you've beaten the encounter.</p>

[Eet]

<div></div><p>Everything in the Fountain of Life seemed so well thought out. Having only 30 minutes to destroy the Ewer seems arbitrary.</p><p>Realistically the Ewer should need smashing only once. Perhaps one person shattering the Ewer should give an update to everyone in the raid.</p><p>Inviting the entire server into the Fountain for their updates should still be disallowed, so the kind of crap Sovereign pulled on Crushbone a few weeks back would be impossible.</p>

[carlspackler]

<div>A simpler change to Wrapping it All Up should have been made. Add the following step:</div><div> </div><div>Kill the Godking</div><div> </div><div>Then proceed with the rest of the quest as is, with no time limit. That way only 24 people at most can get the update. I guess this was too simple though. Sort of like allowing us to jump off clouds/griffins instead of fixing the problem that makes us stuck on them. Having safe fall though, I do like jumping off of them when I need to!</div>

[Ilucide]

<hr width="100%" size="2"><blockquote><div>A simpler change to Wrapping it All Up should have been made. Add the following step:</div><div> </div>Kill the Godking</blockquote><div><hr width="100%" size="2">There were a lot of reasons why we didn't do that, not the least of which is that it doesn't make sense with the lore of the quest.</div><div></div>

[Gertack_v2]

<div></div>And a 30 minute limit does? <span>:smileyindifferent:</span>"Hey guys, we just killed this big bad boss, but the Ewer is so uber that in 30 minutes it'll ignore any of our attempts to break it.  Tough luck to you slow people, enjoy the minions!"Edit: Speaking of lore, the quest series started out investigating the goddess Anashti'Sul then threw it all completely out the window the instant D'Morte showed up.  After that, never a peep of the goddess again.  Who needs her, eh? Got the Ewer and some baddie vampire to focus on anyway.  At least her portrait was in the Fountain of Life so she wasn't completely ignored.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Gertack on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:38 PM</span></p>

[Mode]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:<hr size="2" width="100%"><blockquote><div>A simpler change to Wrapping it All Up should have been made. Add the following step:</div><div> </div>Kill the Godking</blockquote><div><hr size="2" width="100%">There were a lot of reasons why we didn't do that, not the least of which is that it doesn't make sense with the lore of the quest.</div><div></div><hr></blockquote>Why not put the update on the god kings death and then make it so the last thing the god king does just before death is break the ewer giving everyone on the raid thier update. One of those if I can't have it no one will type things....

[ReviloTX]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Modean wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:<hr size="2" width="100%"><blockquote><div>A simpler change to Wrapping it All Up should have been made. Add the following step:</div><div> </div>Kill the Godking</blockquote><div><hr size="2" width="100%">There were a lot of reasons why we didn't do that, not the least of which is that it doesn't make sense with the lore of the quest.</div><div></div><hr></blockquote>Why not put the update on the god kings death and then make it so the last thing the god king does just before death is break the ewer giving everyone on the raid thier update. One of those if I can't have it no one will type things....<hr></blockquote>I like the fact that you can zone in guildies/alts afterwords to get the update.  We had more than 24 people on our first raid that needed the update, this allowed the chance that everyone would be able to get it, so I didn't have to feel so bad about leaving them out of the raid (like I did on our first Darathar kill way back when, I actually had people quit over it).  Of course, it has to be limited so that people can't zone the whole server in, hence the 30 minute update timer.  On the other hand, I don't feel that it should be overly difficult to get the update, and the possibility to get in some additional guildmates and/or alts should be there.

[Ilucide]

<hr width="100%" size="2"><blockquote>I like the fact that you can zone in guildies/alts afterwords to get the update.  We had more than 24 people on our first raid that needed the update, this allowed the chance that everyone would be able to get it, so I didn't have to feel so bad about leaving them out of the raid</blockquote><hr width="100%" size="2">Yes, exactly.<div></div>

[Mith]

It would also be nice if there was some description in game that the 2H Dark Fury Halberd of Anuk can be converted into the 1H Dark Fury Sword of Anuk. When presented with the weapon choices, the only items listed for me were a 2H, DW, and 1HB weapon. I am usually the main tank so I use 1H and shield. The 1HB in this case had stats more suited to a priest. I finally chose the DW Dark Fury Sabre of Anuk because I thought I might use it more than the Halberd. I only found out that the Halberd can be converted into a 1 Hander when I checked the forums afterwards. I tried petitioning to have the Sabre swapped out for the Sword, but was told they couldn't do that and to feedback it. So I submitted feedback and tried to petition again as I knew from a forum post that the swap could be done. I finally got an answer from a somewhat more knowledgable GM, but he said they could only do the swap if the quest was completed before March 2nd. I had completed it on the 5th.Anyway, I would suggest a description in game, or even better list the Sword as a separate selection, to prevent future mistakes like mine and a way for those of us who made the mistake after the March 2nd deadline to get the right weapon. Meanwhile I'll try to petition again and see if I can find someone who still has the ability to swap the weapon for me.<div></div>

[ReviloTX]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Mithas wrote:It would also be nice if there was some description in game that the 2H Dark Fury Halberd of Anuk can be converted into the 1H Dark Fury Sword of Anuk. When presented with the weapon choices, the only items listed for me were a 2H, DW, and 1HB weapon. I am usually the main tank so I use 1H and shield. The 1HB in this case had stats more suited to a priest. I finally chose the DW Dark Fury Sabre of Anuk because I thought I might use it more than the Halberd. I only found out that the Halberd can be converted into a 1 Hander when I checked the forums afterwards. I tried petitioning to have the Sabre swapped out for the Sword, but was told they couldn't do that and to feedback it. So I submitted feedback and tried to petition again as I knew from a forum post that the swap could be done. I finally got an answer from a somewhat more knowledgable GM, but he said they could only do the swap if the quest was completed before March 2nd. I had completed it on the 5th.Anyway, I would suggest a description in game, or even better list the Sword as a separate selection, to prevent future mistakes like mine and a way for those of us who made the mistake after the March 2nd deadline to get the right weapon. Meanwhile I'll try to petition again and see if I can find someone who still has the ability to swap the weapon for me.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I would really appreciate if we can get this fixed for you guys.  On top of the fiasco and people missing the quest update, I now have a couple of tanks with DW weapons instead of the 2h/1h option they should have.  Again I feel responsible for not letting you guys know ahead of time to choose the 2h.  If only that night wasn't such a mess...

[carlspackler]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:<hr size="2" width="100%"><blockquote>I like the fact that you can zone in guildies/alts afterwords to get the update.  We had more than 24 people on our first raid that needed the update, this allowed the chance that everyone would be able to get it, so I didn't have to feel so bad about leaving them out of the raid</blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Yes, exactly.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well, I didn't know that was the intended purpose of not adding "Kill the Godking" to this. I think that allowing others to zone in after you have killed the Godking to get their updates trivializes the accomplishments of those that actually killed him. It's nice to have your whole guild be able to get this, but now it means even less knowing that some people who have their weapons didn't even participate in the raid.</p>

[Chefren]

<span><blockquote>Ilucide wrote:<hr width="100%" size="2"><blockquote>I like the fact that you can zone in guildies/alts afterwords to get the update.  We had more than 24 people on our first raid that needed the update, this allowed the chance that everyone would be able to get it, so I didn't have to feel so bad about leaving them out of the raid</blockquote><hr width="100%" size="2">Yes, exactly.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Maybe if you lock the zone so that more people can't zone in after godking is dead? Just so that it wouldn't be possible to bork it after you've done the actual kill.</span><div></div>

[Ilucide]

<hr width="100%" size="2"><blockquote>It's nice to have your whole guild be able to get this, but now it means even less knowing that some people who have their weapons didn't even participate in the raid.</blockquote><hr width="100%" size="2">How is that any different than having someone sit on the side while the other 23 people kill the godking? Doesn't that "trivialize the accomplishment" in just the same fashion? (I'm playing devil's advocate here.) I think the benefit of "trivializing" the reward (that friends and guildmates can help each other out) far outweighs someone else's desire to be the only person with X weapon or Y piece of equipment.The fact of the matter is that I'd prefer to allow guildmates to help each other out, without allowing people to hold the zone open for hours.Could the zone be locked after the godking dies? Sure, I could have the doors close again. But again, that doesn't accomplish the goal I have in mind.<div></div>

[CrazedMut]

<div></div> I actually applaud Illucide on this quest design. If you have 25 people that need Prismatic 2.0, and the zone is locked after GK dies, then you have not only refarm a whole set of eyes to re-enter the zone, you have to redo an encounter you have already beaten. This method allows a guild to kill GK, and get the update for the people that need it.

[Golembes]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:<hr size="2" width="100%"><blockquote>It's nice to have your whole guild be able to get this, but now it means even less knowing that some people who have their weapons didn't even participate in the raid.</blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">How is that any different than having someone sit on the side while the other 23 people kill the godking? Doesn't that "trivialize the accomplishment" in just the same fashion? (I'm playing devil's advocate here.) I think the benefit of "trivializing" the reward (that friends and guildmates can help each other out) far outweighs someone else's desire to be the only person with X weapon or Y piece of equipment.The fact of the matter is that I'd prefer to allow guildmates to help each other out, without allowing people to hold the zone open for hours.Could the zone be locked after the godking dies? Sure, I could have the doors close again. But again, that doesn't accomplish the goal I have in mind.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font size="2"><font color="#ffffff">Was your goal to keep people who legitimately killed the Godking from getting their updates?  There were people even before this change went live saying 30 minutes wouldn't be enough time......Like all things, I guess I just wish changes would be l</font><font color="#ffffff">egitimately </font><font color="#ffffff">tested before they are made lived</font>.  At least you are throwing in the "immunity" now, thanks for that.  Too late for the innocent victims though.....</font>

[Chefren]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>CrazedMutha wrote:<div></div> I actually applaud Illucide on this quest design. If you have 25 people that need Prismatic 2.0, and the zone is locked after GK dies, then you have not only refarm a whole set of eyes to re-enter the zone, you have to redo an encounter you have already beaten. This method allows a guild to kill GK, and get the update for the people that need it.<hr></blockquote>You could zone all 25 in before killing him and locking the zone. The 30 minute timer was implemented because people were keeping the zone open for hours after he was killed and letting people get the update.</span></div>

[CrazedMut]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Chefren wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>CrazedMutha wrote:<div></div> I actually applaud Illucide on this quest design. If you have 25 people that need Prismatic 2.0, and the zone is locked after GK dies, then you have not only refarm a whole set of eyes to re-enter the zone, you have to redo an encounter you have already beaten. This method allows a guild to kill GK, and get the update for the people that need it.<hr></blockquote>You could zone all 25 in before killing him and locking the zone. The 30 minute timer was implemented because people were keeping the zone open for hours after he was killed and letting people get the update.</span></div><hr></blockquote>I thought raid zones only allow 24 players to zone in, ejecting anyone else that tries to, if they are outside the raid force. In any event, my point was; I advocate this zone design such that killing a raid boss allows the entire guild to get the update from 24 peoples heroic efforts. I don't condone holding it open for hours on end, so I agree the 30 minute timer was a good idea. The mummies continually spawning when people tried to get their update, was an annoyance, however.</div><p>Message Edited by CrazedMutha on <span class="date_text">03-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:46 AM</span></p>

[scl]

I'm not sure I understand the problem here. If they've given 30 minutes immunity from mummies spawning in the top pool, why isn't that enough time? Can't you just break the enounters at the bottom and just get everyone to jump on the wall? I may be wrong, but you don't get attacked on walls do you? Then you just all climb up and get the update since you don't have to worry about the mummies spawning up there anymore.I'm sorry if I'm not understanding this correctly.

[Chefren]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>CrazedMutha wrote:<div></div><div>I thought raid zones only allow 24 players to zone in, ejecting anyone else that tries to, if they are outside the raid force. In any event, my point was; I advocate this zone design such that killing a raid boss allows the entire guild to get the update from 24 peoples heroic efforts. I don't condone holding it open for hours on end, so I agree the 30 minute timer was a good idea. The mummies continually spawning when people tried to get their update, was an annoyance, however.</div><p>Message Edited by CrazedMutha on <span class="date_text">03-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:46 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Some instanced zones allow you to get more people into by someone inside leaving the raid and inviting new people instead. These can now zone in too.</span></div>

[Golembes]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>scl wrote:I'm not sure I understand the problem here. If they've given 30 minutes immunity from mummies spawning in the top pool, why isn't that enough time? Can't you just break the enounters at the bottom and just get everyone to jump on the wall? I may be wrong, but you don't get attacked on walls do you? Then you just all climb up and get the update since you don't have to worry about the mummies spawning up there anymore.I'm sorry if I'm not understanding this correctly.<hr></blockquote>There isn't any immunity in the live version of the instance yet (as of March 8th).

[Reiano]

<span>But why wait till 90% of the guilds already have there weapons to make these changes. Guilds rarley do it now so there is no chance to get a pickup for it. Why must you always change things after the fact like makeing t5 encounters require you to be t6 or higher have you even checked the black queen since the expansion. Just another way too screw small upcomeing guilds.<blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:<hr width="100%" size="2"><blockquote>It's nice to have your whole guild be able to get this, but now it means even less knowing that some people who have their weapons didn't even participate in the raid.</blockquote><hr width="100%" size="2">How is that any different than having someone sit on the side while the other 23 people kill the godking? Doesn't that "trivialize the accomplishment" in just the same fashion? (I'm playing devil's advocate here.) I think the benefit of "trivializing" the reward (that friends and guildmates can help each other out) far outweighs someone else's desire to be the only person with X weapon or Y piece of equipment.The fact of the matter is that I'd prefer to allow guildmates to help each other out, without allowing people to hold the zone open for hours.Could the zone be locked after the godking dies? Sure, I could have the doors close again. But again, that doesn't accomplish the goal I have in mind.<div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Kegofbud]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:Thought you might like to know, I just added 30 minutes of "immunity" from mummy spawns at the top of the Godking platform.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Really? Because we just did this tonight and when epopel stepped in the water we got spawns all over the place, wiping everyone. So much for that...now we have 6 people out of 24 who got their updates because the timer ran out killing off these adds.  I am so angry about wasting time, repair bills and debt because of this. Since I know the petitions will never do anything about this, and we did everything as expected, only to have adds at top and a 30 minute timer, I could just explode. How about helping the people who get screwed by updates put in place because of people who took advantage of your rules instead of putting limits on things for others. Also, though I know it's a laugh, how about a reimbursement or unlocking us out with our eyes back in hand.

[Craien]

<div></div><div></div>There has got to be a better way to do this.  Was this 30 minute timer put in because some guild spent 2 days charging people pp to zone in for update?  Or you just wanted to make it harder, more annoying, provide another timesink?  Why not make it so that the only people who can zone in are the ones in the zone, those who zoned in initially, then you wouldn't have this silly time limit.<p>Message Edited by Craien on <span class="date_text">03-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:16 PM</span></p>

[Keldo]

The 'no spawns' thing is still on test, btw.Also it is completely possible to update all 24 people and more with proper planning, did it today (our 1st time in the zone) and got 30 updates with 10 minutes to spare.  Keep the time, send people up the wall in sets of 2 or 3 and kill all the adds as they spawn.  It's not as difficult as you are making it out.<div></div>

[Kegofbud]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Keldoth wrote:The 'no spawns' thing is still on test, btw.Also it is completely possible to update all 24 people and more with proper planning, did it today (our 1st time in the zone) and got 30 updates with 10 minutes to spare.  Keep the time, send people up the wall in sets of 2 or 3 and kill all the adds as they spawn.  It's not as difficult as you are making it out.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Everything I'd expect from a person who got their update.

[ReviloTX]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Keldoth wrote:The 'no spawns' thing is still on test, btw.Also it is completely possible to update all 24 people and more with proper planning, did it today (our 1st time in the zone) and got 30 updates with 10 minutes to spare.  Keep the time, send people up the wall in sets of 2 or 3 and kill all the adds as they spawn.  It's not as difficult as you are making it out.<div></div><hr></blockquote>It isn't that difficult if you know what to expect and how to deal with it AHEAD of time.  The point being, if your someone that either likes to figure things out on your own, or didn't think that spending the time researching how to get the quest update was as or more important than how to kill the Godking (I don't know about you, but that just sounds dumb to me), then your raid will most likely end up with numerous people failing to get the update.  30 minutes is not enough time to go back and clear all the adds and THEN have people get updates single file.  Removing the spawns up top will help in this regards, but it won't eliminate the problem alltogether.  IMO, the timer should be changed to an hour, maybe even two hours, or we are still going to see raid forces failing to get their updates.<p>Message Edited by ReviloTX on <span class="date_text">03-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:02 PM</span></p>

[Keldo]

Well, you do know what to expect ahead of the time.  I mean, even if you go in completely blind, in the process of doing the zone you discover that adds spawn when you touch the water.  If your guild is not a bunch of loose cannons, it would also be easily possible to bum rush the wall, wipe thanks to the ton of adds, clear all the way back down and do it single file.  We manage to update 20 people 2 at a time, clear all the way back to zone in, invite 5 or 6 that were left out, head all the way back and get them updates with plenty of time to spare, so clearing 24 spawns and from zone in is certainly possible unless you are simply unorganized.I agree that an artificial timer is not necessarily the best solution to this problem, but there simply is no excuse for only getting 5 or 6 updates, and throwing insults at devs isn't going to win any sympathy.<div></div>

[Ddrak]

I'm confused by Illucide's comment that skellies won't spawn "up top". I don't recall them spawning "up top" before the 30 minute change and they definitely didn't spawn "up top" when we killed GK on Saturday (some people were running all over the place up there). The only place they appear to spawn is from the water down the bottom and if you end up with them up top then it's probably because they've agroed up the wall from down the bottom.Dd

[Luhai]

I agree with Keldoth.You should have noticed the adds spawning every time someone went into the water.You would even get a message telling you that something had happened as soon as you went into the water.I find it rather hard to believe that not a single player had touched the water the whole time you were in the zone. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Sending groups of 3 ppl to the pool and and replacing them with the next 3 ppl works fine, 30 minutes are quite enough for that.

[Eldarath]

<div></div><p>This would be a wonderful update if it were ever implemented, please try to be a little more clear when making these statements and maybe add an implementation date, it is really anoying to try these things to find out that they are [Removed for Content].  Also it would be fun to get others there updates but when they are invited to group and they end up in a different instance of the zone it sort of contradicts getting an update.  We were lucky enough to get 23 of 26 people there updates but it was over all a very frustrating experience.</p><p>Suggestion to fix this total [Removed for Content] experience, try making the eye farm a little easier say have 9 guaranteed eye drops that are no-zone and have godking as an update step to the quest so that the raid is all done in one try would even be better then the crap that this is now.</p><p>And I am sorry but this lore crap that I have read about before is a pile of bull, mechanics should always over-rule a lore decision, make the lore fit within the mechanics of a game or change the lore to fit the game.</p>

[Arhan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:<hr size="2" width="100%"><blockquote>It's nice to have your whole guild be able to get this, but now it means even less knowing that some people who have their weapons didn't even participate in the raid.</blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">How is that any different than having someone sit on the side while the other 23 people kill the godking? Doesn't that "trivialize the accomplishment" in just the same fashion? (I'm playing devil's advocate here.) I think the benefit of "trivializing" the reward (that friends and guildmates can help each other out) far outweighs someone else's desire to be the only person with X weapon or Y piece of equipment.The fact of the matter is that I'd prefer to allow guildmates to help each other out, without allowing people to hold the zone open for hours.Could the zone be locked after the godking dies? Sure, I could have the doors close again. But again, that doesn't accomplish the goal I have in mind.<div></div><hr></blockquote>IMO there should be a 7 day lockout and the quest should be updated through the Godking.   No guild wants to refarm the eyes because someone got overly excited.  On one of our GK runs someone ran ahead and others followed.  We had about 20 minions on us spawned through the water.  Luckly this was after KoS so we handled the adds.  But if we wiped we would of been set back and we more then likely most wouldn't of gotten our updates in time.  We had 20+ updates it was our first kill....  To much at stake to have a timer especially for a guild doing it there for there first time.  There has to be a better solution <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Budgiette]

Well we did godking tonight and it was just too buggy to get everyone through to get their updates.  Half the guild never achieved their updates owing to mobs spawning on top,  the encounters couldnt be broken allowing people to climb up, which caused even more spawns in the water below.  The events leading up to godking kill were a walk through compared to trying to get everyone updated.  Its not that we didnt know what to expect, or that we were having problems killing the added mobs - the problems were the amount of mobs spawning both up top and down below, and the inability to break the encounters which allowed members to climb the wall!  Very disappointing when you kill the 'nameds' in zone without one death in raid, and then at the end find that half the guild cannot update owing to trash mobs and bugs!<div></div>

[Golembes]

<div>We figured out that there is a trick that you can use to help you control the spawns that occur both on top and at the bottom of the pool:  The adds will immediatly go after the first person that zones into the Fountain. </div><div> </div><div>We set up a group in the raid with the first person that zoned to act as the puller, essentialy.  Then we sent people up three at a time.  First they hopped in the bottom pool and the aggro group downed the adds.  The three then went up the wall and got into the water on the top.  The adds up there immediatly headed to the aggro group down below.  Any casters that were up at the top were still in range to help on taking down the adds so they didn't have to move at all once they were up top.</div><div> </div><div>As for encounters not breaking, just make sure you have people that have nothing targeted yelling for help constantly. </div>

[Malhabbock]

I made a post in the Gameplay forum not realizing that this topic already existed.If the designers believe that 30 minutes is sufficient, that's their decision and one that raids must try and compensate for.What is COMPELTELY UNACCEPTABLE is the lack of a timer that pops up in the journal helper as it does for every other timed quest I have encountered -- including previous quests in the peacock series.Live update 20 had over 100 bullet points in it, how many can you list off of memory ? This is bad programming and a mistake on SOE's part, period. They should do the right thing and compensate those effected by this appropriately.

[Ordate]

<div></div><div></div><p>Current problems:</p><p>Either this change was not put in or it is buggy.  Mobs still spawn at the top during the first 30 minutes.  Watched one spawn and run for the first in person as I hit the top.  (I was raid leader trying to figure out what to do about 2 minutes after godkings death.)</p><p>30 minutes?  Ya heard something about some thirty minute timer.  Must be lock out on the door because my quest doesnt have a timer as pointed out above.  Nor does it say anything.  I would have had to have read the update notes and have a photographic memory to remember all the update notes to know this.</p><p>Why the change in the first place?  To prevent wanton flagging of an entire server?  When did that happen on my server?  Why didnt I get the flyer?  Aka if thats why you made the change then why doesnt everyone have the weapon on all servers previous to this change?</p><p>Lore?  Ok so after 30 minutes I suddenly cant break the ewer?  That fits into the lore how....?</p><p>To say I am upset that as an officer in a casual friendly raiding guild would be a gross understatement.  Months went into this.  We finally go kill the godking and pretty much get told you have to spend all that time again if you really want this update because we badly implement changes to stop a few people from exploiting?  Honestly the current "design" is badly designed.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Ordate on <span class="date_text">03-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:46 AM</span></p>

[ReviloTX]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ordate wrote:<div></div><p>Current problems:</p><p>Either this change was not put in or it is buggy.  Mobs still spawn at the top after 30 minutes.  Watched one spawn and run for the first in person as I hit the top.  (I was raid leader trying to figure out what to do about 2 minutes after godkings death.)</p><p>30 minutes?  Ya heard something about some thirty minute timer.  Must be lock out on the door because my quest doesnt have a timer as pointed out above.  Nor does it say anything.  I would have had to have read the update notes and have a photographic memory to remember all the update notes to know this.</p><p>Why the change in the first place?  To prevent wanton flagging of an entire server?  When did that happen on my server?  Why didnt I get the flyer?  Aka if thats why you made the change then why doesnt everyone have the weapon on all servers previous to this change?</p><p>Lore?  Ok so after 30 minutes I suddenly cant break the ewer?  That fits into the lore how....?</p><p>To say I am upset that as an officer in a casual friendly raiding guild would be a gross understatement.  Months went into this.  We finally go kill the godking and pretty much get told you have to spend all that time again if you really want this update because we badly implement changes to stop a few people from exploiting?  Honestly the current "design" is badly designed.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>If it's any conselation, we managed to farm the additional eyes we needed for a second trip in about 7-8 hours of raiding.  We only had a few of the x2's leftover, but since SC is pretty much empty now it really isn't that bad going back and getting them again.  Agreed though, it's messed up.  Lot's of guilds before the 30 min timer created a mess their first time in, they were just able to clear back and get the updates anwyays.  We weren't, and thats the real issue.  I think the timer should allow for a "mess creation", and cleanup time to get back.  Guilds will continue to do this, it isn't like it's something only one guild ever did.

[Malhabbock]

<blockquote><hr>ReviloTX wrote:<div></div><blockquote>If it's any conselation, we managed to farm the additional eyes we needed for a second trip in about 7-8 hours of raiding.  We only had a few of the x2's leftover, but since SC is pretty much empty now it really isn't that bad going back and getting them again.  Agreed though, it's messed up.  Lot's of guilds before the 30 min timer created a mess their first time in, they were just able to clear back and get the updates anwyays.  We weren't, and thats the real issue.  I think the timer should allow for a "mess creation", and cleanup time to get back.  Guilds will continue to do this, it isn't like it's something only one guild ever did.<hr></blockquote>I apprecaite the comments and sympathy bro, but if you were effected by this you shouldn't have had to spend 8 hours getting more eyes. It sounds like you have more determination than I have. At this point the thought of starting all this over again makes me sick at my stomach -- not sick because I failed on my own accord, sick because I failed without being given the vital piece of information required to succeed.</blockquote>

[Mulli]

We went and killed godking on saturday, we got 32 people updated for godking weapons and vessel, sent them 3 at a time up the wall whilst the rest of raid waited at bottom to pull adds that spawned in the water below, then we got them to run jump back down so nothing else spawned - had 5 minutes to spare at the end.We didnt get any spawns up top at all ran I around like mad in the water up there just to make sure before getting the rest of my guildies 3 at a time up the wall, so maybe this patch is live on some servers but not others (my server is splitpaw)As for the not being able to yell, make sure the raidleader has anyone yell turned on (thats the only reason i can think of why you couldnt yell)

[Budgiette]

Went back tonight to update the guild members that missed out a week ago.  There were no spawns on top this time, and the spawns from the water below were much fewer and very manageable (now 2-3 compared to around 10-15 last week)!  However we encountered the pet bug - Pet ** intererfered with the encounter - had to have all pets killed to complete the zone.  Also, for some reason,  I was constantly being targeted by random mobs that appeared next to me after battle, (nowhere near water and midway with zoning in) - removing spineskin seemed to fix this problem.   Definately less buggy this time around!<div></div>

[HBP]

30 min is plenty of time.  This zone is challenging but not impossible.   I've done this zone 3 times now.  First time we got our guild 39 updates, 24 on the next, and 5 on the third one. <p>Message Edited by HBP on <span class=date_text>04-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:52 AM</span>

[ReviloTX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HBP wrote:<BR> 30 min is plenty of time.  This zone is challenging but not impossible.   I've done this zone 3 times now.  First time we got our guild 39 updates, 24 on the next, and 5 on the third one.  <P>Message Edited by HBP on <SPAN class=date_text>04-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:52 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If you got 39 updates on your first visit I'm willing to bet one of two things:  Either you did this before the "30 min timer" was implemented, or you had some information about what to do and what not to do when getting your updates.  I won't argue that you can get 39 updates in one visit, I agree that is definately possible (although challenging).  I would argue though that it is VERY unlikely if you don't have prior knowledge about the procedure for getting updates properly.