Risk/reward - is this really the loot you intended for Vault?

[Aral]

<div>After investing an evening with my guildmates checking out the new, improved Vault  instance in Barren sky, we managed to get these ..... er......  "prizes" from 3 of the named inside, including the Kyrtog (sp?) commander at what appeared to be the end. </div><div> </div><div><img src="http://home.comcast.net/~bstatema/EQ2/uttercraploot.jpg"></div><div> </div><div>So  - since this complete TRASH  is worse than any random wood chest you might find in sanctum - I'm left to wonder what "nice rewards" people were speaking of in the other threads on vault.  It's not an unreasonably hard zone at 67, but it takes a lot of time given the sheer volume of (lootless and very low exp) trash you have to clear to open up the scripted events.  We made it to the third floor, killed the Kyrtog (sp?) fellow after killing 3 or so other named, and the final portal orb that became clickable only led to the entrance. </div><div> </div><div>If this is the "reward" for this zone, the place will be _empty_.  Not even close to worth the time. </div>

[Wado]

You probably just got unlucky with the drops that time.  <div></div>

[Supernova17]

<span><blockquote><hr>Wadoon wrote:You probably just got unlucky with the drops that time.  <div></div><hr></blockquote>He did!Ran through the Vault tonight.Picked up 2 Illusionist, 1 Coercer, 1 Fury and 1 Conjuror Master spell, mostly off trash mobs but a couple of the named as well.I would also like Sony to explain why there is no revive point inside the zone, why the zone kicks everybody out if the group wipes and an outside player comes in to ressurect them (one of the dead players logging out, player outside is invited, comes in to ressurect and plans to leave the zone and let the previous dead member log back in) and why exactly if you get booted from the zone, the game zones you right into the Sentry's outside the door and they KILL you before you are done loading...</span><div></div>

[NoNameChosen]

<div>I went in with a group yesterday as well and we got NO! legendary/master chests at all.. Just some junk loot from normal mobs and some decent treasured gear for those that don't raid. The loot needs to be seriously upgraded :/</div>

[s]

<div>Oh come on stop the BS. The zone is perfectly fine as it is. If you don't get any good loot the first time you might.. oh try again?</div><div>You were doing PP, roost, ancients and countless other zones in both t5 and t6 for weeks without getting good loot sometimes. Now we're to the point of expecting someting uber to drop every time we kill a named and whine for more when it drops wood? Get real, risk vs. reward doesn't mean you GET good loot when you risk your life, it means you have a bigger chance at getting good loot then when you're playing it safe. If you don't, tough luck and try again next time. There's plenty good loot out there and just because an instance didn't give you something nice once doesn't mean the loot needs an upgrade. Just try again and you'll see vaults does have some nice stuff and lots of masters can drop even from thrash mobs as has been pointed out (mostly even).</div><div> </div><div>The reviving does need a closer look though imo.</div>

[Bruinth]

<div> </div><div> Yea, the other instances in KOS do the same thing OP.  You just had a bad run, it happens to all of us.  Next time you go in you might be like the otherposter and get 4 master chests, it's a crap shoot.  Good luck next time tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Descolin]

I have seen more master drops in Permafrost in a few hours of leveling than what you guys are giving for numbers, I am not a veteran or anything, but I assume these raids or whatever take quite awhile, and a decent amount of good loot is expected.<div></div>

[Aral]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bruinthor wrote:<div> </div><div> Yea, the other instances in KOS do the same thing OP.  You just had a bad run, it happens to all of us.  Next time you go in you might be like the otherposter and get 4 master chests, it's a crap shoot.  Good luck next time tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>Actually, no you cannot.  Try completing Blackscale Sepulchre, Den of Devourer, and Nest without getting one legendary chest.  It won't happen.  It actually can't happen, given the table available to the mobs.  In addition, those treasured/wood chest items that do drop are appropriate for the level and difficulty.  It is against these other instances, and the easily-available named camps in other KoS dungeons (Sanctum, Palace) that this place should be compared.  If you've actually finished these zones or collected wood boxes from names in the aforementioned zones and instances, you'll notice the treasured is usually surprisingly good - often close to as good as the legendary drop you get 50% of the time.  The Vault loot I posted is the outlier here. </p><p>It is not a question of luck, it's a question of these pathetic loots even being in the table for this place.  Common wood chest drops from level 61 and 62 named in Sanctum are much better.  Heck common wood drops from wandering trash are better.  There is no reason this much more lengthy and xp-wise, unrewarding zone should have poorer loot on it's tables than instances which take 30 mins to complete.   The loot is the _only_ reward here - the exp rate is terrible thanks to the undercons. </p><p>The comparisons another poster made to Roost or PP are inaccurate: you are guaranteed 1 metal in poets, and the treasured that dropped in roost was - relative to the other loot available - quite decent for the intended audience. </p><p>The minimum drops in this place should be more in line with wood chest drops in the easier dungeons.  Some of the names should be a guaranteed legendary chest, as they are in the other _instances_. </p>

[Dogm]

<div></div><div>Vault is only an 8 hour lockout though, the other 3 you mentioned are 18-20.  So in order to compare you need to run vault 2-3 times.  </div>

[Morticus]

<div></div><div>Hi there,</div><div> </div><div>I just wanted to chime in and mention that all of the named in the zone have weighted loot tables, so you aren't always going to get an "uber" item from them when slain. </div><div> </div><div>The named <strong>will</strong> however drop an item *everytime* they are slain (pulled from the weighted table mentioned above), so you are guaranteed to get four items each run - period. </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>There is also a rare named that can spawn in the zone that drops two items *everytime* when slain, which means potentially you could leave the zone with six items.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>-Mort</div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Morticus wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div>There is also a rare named that can spawn in the zone that drops two items *everytime* when slain, which means potentially you could leave the zone with six items.</div><div> </div><div>-Mort</div><hr></blockquote>Ah yes, and he is a fun fight.

[Noah]

<div></div>4 Named - 8 Hour lock out - Instanced.   I figured you should see legend items once every 2 clears of the place.   So far it is almost that.  I will say the treasure items are not "on par" with the rest of KoS.   Go to Sanctum or Awakened - the trash items for the named in these place surpass these items that look like T5 throw aways.   I personally love the zone but encourage a loot review on it since it just seems "off".

[Magu]

If it only has an 8 hour lockout, it should not drop a lot of legendary.If that's supposed to be 18, it's still not too bad - better odds then Ancients Table.<div></div>

[Knightrid]

<div></div><div></div><p>I have to completely agree with the orignal poster.  This zone is absolutely horrible when it comes to risk vs reward and here are my reasons:</p><p>1) Tons of mobs with tons of hp which make progressing slow</p><p>2) Mobs with knockback and fear which make progressing slow</p><p>3) A setup to where mobs have to be cleared in order to spawn other mobs which make progressing slow</p><p>4) Horrible loot compared to other zones which take considerably less time and effort (i.e. Blackscale Sepulcher, Den of the Devourer, Halls of Fate (same effort required but Halls has much better loot), Nest of the Great Egg, etc.)  I'd rather go to palce of awakened and camp dragons all day than get the completely useless junk from Vault</p><p>Summing that up, the mobs take longer to kill than other comparable zones.  The mobs have more "special abilities" than other comparable zones.  The clearing takes longer than other comparable zones.  The loot is trash compared to other comparable zones. </p><p>P.S.  I have cleared each of these zones at least once and most multiple times and have a very good idea of the loot tables in each.</p><p>Message Edited by Knightrider on <span class="date_text">03-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:33 AM</span></p>

[Noah]

<div></div><div>A great suggestion I got from a friend was -  Make it a 3 day zone with a good loot table.   There are TONs of group instances... and easier in difficulty...  this could be a great zone if good loot was dropping at a fair rate.   This is definately not a zone i would have fun going into every 8 hours. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Aral]

<div></div><p>How is an 8 hour lockout in practice different from 18 or 20?  That's a total red herring.  How many players are going to go to the same 2 hour+ instance 8 hours later? </p><p>The common loot is trash compared to common loot for the easier instances, those items should not be on the "weighted table" at all  There should also be one guaranteed legendary such as you get in the other 1-day (18, 24, 8  - it's once a day for 99.9% of players) lockout instances. </p>

[Co]

First of all, you need to get more information before making a post like this. Yeah, you had bad luck, but if you did some reasearch and knew about some of the items that DO drop in here, you wouldn't have made this post. The end mob has a chance to drop class helms that are simply incredible. Instant cast Canibilizes, procs that add to healing, etc. Supposedly every class has an amazing helm here. Second, that ring is INCREDIBLE for some classes. All bards and scouts that use procs would love having something with 17 to both str and int, and especially in ring slot. Yeah, it takes a long time to clear, but the *potential* of having fantastic loot definently outweighs any kind of reason to not do the zone.Don't change this devs. Let the people who don't bother trying a zone multiple times skip this over and make our loot worth that much more =p<div></div>

[dea]

I'm going to echo Cohh's sentiment that the +17str/int ring is farking amazing.<div></div>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

<div>this is my experience with the zone</div><div> </div><div>when i was lvl 63, we zoned in and couldnt get past the first room (we were rushing a bit)</div><div> </div><div>I came back at level 65 and it took me 2 hours to clear up to the 3rd floor, not one legendary dropped along the way and a lvl 70 ^^^ orange named kicked our [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and stopped up from going any further <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>But i still liked the zone and cant wait to get another level or two and try it again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Relg]

<div></div><p>Ok, we just had a few groups clear this and we only got 3 nameds total for 3 drops...I understand one is rare, but from what the dev said it seems that there should be 4 nameds...we got 2 on the 1st floor, and one on the 3rd...where are we missing one?  Ran all over after we cleared it all out, didn't find anything else to do <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>Thx!</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Senen74]

<div></div>Main problem with this zone is the mobs easily have 2 to 3 times the average hps of other zones like Palace/Sepulcher where the mobs have 5 lvls more.  The treasured loot in here is not on par with the other zones as well as the drop rate for the time to clear compared to other zones if some of you guys think this should be the bench mark then the other zones should all have a review.  As I know it, each of these zones are done by diffrent people hince the major diffrence in itemization/difficulty thats being seen, personaly I would like to see some more standardization from SoE instead of such big diffrences.  You can go into Sepulcher/Den and blow these zones apart for easy legendary drops the majority of the time ie every run your netting atleast 2 legendarys for an hour on average to clear.  You can go to HoF abit harder mobs then Sepulcher and net minimum of 2 upto 6 Legendary drops in a 3 hour or less run depending on your grps clear speed.  You can then head to Vaults and spend 2-3 hours clearing trash mobs for a few boss fights and net 0 Legendary items most trips the zone just doesn't weight out compared to the others which is the reason most people avoid it the risk does not equal the reward and requires a retuneing no doubt.

[s]

<div>You do realise that after about 3 successfull Den runs you've seen probably all of the zone's loot (including legendary). At least you'll have stuff to go to for loot in a couple weeks/months other then hoping for masters. Besides, the zone is used for at least two quests and the rare named can be a fun fight aswell.</div><div> </div><div>Hell if you ask me, the den and nest need a nerf in the amount of legendary drops. It's already pointless for the majority of my guild to go in there simply because we all have the loot that drops in there already. Where's the fun in that?</div>

[Bruinth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Aralys wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bruinthor wrote:<div> </div><div> Yea, the other instances in KOS do the same thing OP.  You just had a bad run, it happens to all of us.  Next time you go in you might be like the otherposter and get 4 master chests, it's a crap shoot.  Good luck next time tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>It is not a question of luck, it's a question of these pathetic loots even being in the table for this place.  Common wood chest drops from level 61 and 62 named in Sanctum are much better.  Heck common wood drops from wandering trash are better.  There is no reason this much more lengthy and xp-wise, unrewarding zone should have poorer loot on it's tables than instances which take 30 mins to complete.   The loot is the _only_ reward here - the exp rate is terrible thanks to the undercons. </p><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p> Actually when mobs drop items, it <strong>is</strong> a question of luck whether you get Legendary or Treasured.  I have finished all of the instances you mentioned (BS, DoD, HoF, Vault, Nest) and to tell ya the truth, we've gone dry a few times (no legendary).  But I didn't make a post about it because I know thats how the system works and there's always tomorrow.  With an 8 hour lockout you cannot complain about the loot in the zone.  What other instance is going to let you into it 8 hours after completion?  Especially with the loot that drops here, better than most of the other instances.  So enjoy the zone and good luck with drops.</p>

[Anjin]

<div></div><p>I guess confirmation that each of the named have a legendary item in their loot table would help.  We did the zone last night and had 4 wood drops.  No big deal, but did make us think that the time (with the exp/loot reward) involved in the zone didn't make it worthwhile (8hrs or 72 hrs). </p><p>Anjin</p>

[Morticus]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Herbster wrote:<div></div><p>I guess confirmation that each of the named have a legendary item in their loot table would help. </p><p>Anjin</p><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, the named NPCs do have legendary items in their loot tables.</p><p>:smileyhappy:</p><p> </p><p>-Mort</p><p></p><p>Message Edited by Morticus on <span class="date_text">03-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:37 PM</span></p>

[seistaan1]

<div></div><p>hmm</p><p>Well we have had1 to 3 groups going in and doing the zone everyday for about a week or so.</p><p>Since they fixed the buggyness ;P</p><p> </p><p>So far we have gotton.</p><p> </p><p>Three templar lengendary helms, 2 pally legendary helms, one illisionist legendary helm, one swashy legendary helm, 2 necro legendary helms.</p><p>couple other random legendary items and a few masterspells. We have been owned by wood couple times as well.</p><p>With a low lockout over all the drop rate is not bad at all. However you really need to beat the end lvl seventy mob.</p>

[pera]

i wasn't too impressed with the loot that came out of Vault my run last night.  While the final mobs loot was pretty nice, a two handed swored with good stats, graphic, and proc, other than that i don't think any legendary item droped the whole time we were in there on the other floors.<div></div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><p>An 8 Hour lockout zone that drops some of the nicest class helms in the game.</p><p>Jeez what do you guys want, fabled off every mob?</p>

[Dfoley3]

<div></div><p>The fact it takes about 2 hours to get to the last name in the zone is probably the biggest issue.  </p><p>Ive done this zone probably 7 or so times now and still have yet to see a legendary drop from any mob in the zone.   Ive killed the last named every time and i typicaly get those dual weild crushers scouts can use.   The named in the zone are fine, but even at 69 - 70 with the mobs being green they still fear 99% of the time for full durations, i still have to use walk every time im feared, and the zone in trash still hits too hard for its level / has way to much hp for its level.  </p><p>Dont get me wrong, the named are fine.  They drop like the mobs of their lvl should, they are easily beatable at 65, and im told theres actual loot contrary to what me and all of my guildies have yet to see.   The droag on the top floor are also fine, perfectly balanced with the correct hp and spells.</p><p>The number one reason complain about this zone, is that the bottom floor takes about 1hr + to clear due to the green con caster mobs haveing enough hp to rival a lvl 70 centurian in halls of fate.  With the changes to revive and evak, the fear isnt as big of an issue.   It just really feels like your fighting x2s on the bottom floor, and i guess you are cause a group with two ^^^ or   a ^^^ and two ^^ is essentialy two heroic encounters.   Even den of the devourer and blackscale only go up to   a ^^^ and a ^^ with the exception of named encounters, but even those encounters die 3x as fast.   I can pull 4 ish groups at a time in either of those zones and not whipe, but if i hit SHift + R one second to late after being feared by a single group, i go out of cure range and risk agroing 3-4 other groups with fear.   </p><p>8 hour lock out and a chance at a class helm doesnt really justify making the zone a pita.  At least not when the chance at legendary is so low.  Doing the zone 3x a day (max possible) id wadger to say ud get about 1 legendary item worth the trouble every 2 days. </p><p>The zone is beatable, there is itimization, it just all doesnt add up to a zone being worth while.</p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div>You don't have to clear everything, you can skip a lot of stuff.</div>

[Dfoley3]

<div></div><p>on the second floor u have to clear 99% of it</p><p>in the library u have to clear 99% of it</p><p>in the teleport room u have to clear enough to be able to pull the 4 port mages and then the named without agro</p><p>the only place you can really skimp out is on the 1st floor at zone in, and on the third floor.</p><p> </p><p>I know all about what is needed and what isnt...</p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><p>The mobs have too much hp and there is too much trash for how few of named are available.  The class helms the last guy can drop are nice, but its ridiculous wading through that much trash to fight a few named.</p><p>I don't see my guild doing that zone often, honestly.</p>