Splitpaw is now empty as well as newbie zones----Long post---very long

[Rymos]

<DIV>First of all, please excuse this long post; it's much longer than intended.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So Splitpaw is finally empty.  I've gone back several times in the last couple days and the zone is empty.  SOE and all the whiners finally got what they wanted.  Too bad, this was a great series of zones.  People don't like being forced out of an expansion and into another; this is why so many people leave the game.  People get tired of these games that SOE plays, you know, the bait and switch.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm really surprised the Gnolls haven't packed up and left Splitpaw yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This doesn't save the game, or economy.  This simply frustrates people into leaving the game.  SOE really needs to figure out why a game like WoW has 4.5 million subscribers and Lineage 2 has 2.5 million.  They've obviously got it all figured out.  WARNING:  Spoiler ahead..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Neither WoW or Lineage 2 are very good games IMO (I've played both).  But they both bring something to the table:  They're not afraid to give treasure and loot to everyone for their time.  SOE acts like it actually costs them something to give nice loot; guess what, it doesn't, it's all just 0's and 1's.  Actually it costs them more to not give treasure to the average adventurer, it costs them in subscriptions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I see happening is people getting into their teens and 20's, never having seen a master chest or any decent drop that they can use.  This really turns the average player off to the game.  There is no WOW factor.  Why is this?  These levels go by so fast, why would it be so bad for the average person to get one or two decent drops per level to keep them interrested, and to make them feel like they're getting something for their time invested?  These items would become obsolete fast enough, they would not ruin gameplay or the economy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>I know some of you will say "You don't need those items to play the game".  You're right, but we need players to play the game and God forbid that people actually receive items that make them want to keep playing the game as they progress.  There needs to be something in the game that makes people want to get to the next level besides another watered down apprentice I spell.  The "Mega Million" type odds at getting a nice drop just aren't going to keep people interrested.  Say someone gets lucky enough to get a master chest or legendary drop at level 25; well , this just isn't going to cut it.  Why should they go 25 levels for one nice drop that they can use for a few levels?  This is not enough incentive for people to pay 15$ a month for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Toons have 18 or so equipment slots and dozens of spells at any given time.  It would not hurt the game for players to get one or two nice drops per level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These types of drops should start on the Isle of Refuge.  Drops appropriate to the level of course, but decent drops none the less.  I'm sure that there are many players that are trying the trial version, only to see no WOW factor to the game, and decide not to subscribe.  A few fancy drops during time on the Isle would spur the imagination of players and make them wonder what kind of treasure lies ahead.  As is now, they wonder if boredom lies ahead and they don't subscribe.  How do I know that they don't subscribe?  Because I occasionally make an alt and all of the newbie zones are empty.  I talk to the young players in the guild (before they leave the game.  They're just not happy with this low risk, no reward game).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some will say, that's because everyone is at higher levels now.  That's absolutely true.  BUT, we must have an influx of new players, and we don't!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This isn't a cry for loot; it's a cry for players.  We're losing players every day due to boredom and general dissatisfaction.  Getting loot and treasure makes people happy, simple as it may seem.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm positive that the same few people will come through and debate each point that I made, as if there isn't a problem; well, I really don't need to tell you that there's a problem, just look at your guild roster, then go to a few newbie zones and talk to yourself, you couldn't give away a plat if you shouted it out because nobody would hear you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well,  I've rambled long enough.....Hopefuly this doesn't fall on deaf ears and something can be done.  I still enjoy this game and enjoy playing with the friends that haven't left yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One more thing.......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why such extremes when SOE tries to make a change?  The other day during the master chest disaster (Yes, I agree that the drop rate was insane), the drop rate seemed like it was 100% metal for named mobs; I even saw a few metals from trash mobs.  SOE agreed that they intended to increase metal drops but not to the extent that they did; so they reduced the rate.  Well, why so extreme?  This is what the rate changes seem to be, at least at the mid to lower levels, I'm not sure about 45+</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before change: 5% chance from named and 0.01 chance from trash</DIV> <DIV>After change:  99% chance from named and 0.1 chance from trash</DIV> <DIV>After 2nd change: 5% chance from named and 0.1 chance from trash.  (Based on 30-40 named killed since patch in RoV and OOLS, 0 metal, all wood, all adept I which I can get from trash mobs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why can't there be a number in between?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, now I'm really done....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Rymos on <span class=date_text>12-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:04 AM</span>

[Darem0]

<DIV>Well put, and I agree. My main is a level 41 Monk and I've seen only two master chests, since I mostly solo. If SOE is worried about the game economy they probably needn't since any reasonable influx of decent items will most likely end up being sold to a merchant after the character outgrows it. Attuning items almost ensures it - especially if the loot tables were tuned to more likely drop items for the group or player class(es) that made the kill. I took a break from EQ2 and since I've been back I've wanted to see the Splitpaw and Bloodline zones, but haven't since they don't seem to be solo friendly and no one is ever there. Coming back and levelling this new Monk from level 12 really showed me how sparse the EQ2 population has become: no more choosing which instances of Antonica to zone into, etc, and it took until the mid thirties to solo my AQ this time around since no one was doing them. I'd love to see a fresh surge of players as EQ2 is certainly worth it and has more potential than the other mmorpgs out there - imho of course.</DIV>

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Rymos wrote:<div></div> <div></div><div>People don't like being forced out of an expansion and into another; this is why so many people leave the game.  People get tired of these games that SOE plays, you know, the bait and switch. </div><hr></blockquote>So you're saying that Harclave is the ONLY thing in Splitpaw? Please get a clue. Harclave was a minor aspect of Splitpaw, it should not have been the primary focus. If that was your only reason for going there, you weren't really enjoying the adventure pack anyway.</span><div></div>

[Nitefl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magus` wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rymos wrote:<BR> <DIV>People don't like being forced out of an expansion and into another; this is why so many people leave the game.  People get tired of these games that SOE plays, you know, the bait and switch. <BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>So you're saying that Harclave is the ONLY thing in Splitpaw? Please get a clue.<BR><BR>Harclave was a minor aspect of Splitpaw, it should not have been the primary focus. If that was your only reason for going there, you weren't really enjoying the adventure pack anyway.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Splitpaw was a great AP. I was first on the server to earn the trust of the gnolls and was there every night doing the instances and planning attacks on Anvilpaw and Acts of War for the first two months or so. I had so much fun in this pack.</P> <P>Did Harclaves a few times on this char (maybe 2-3) since he was already 50, but my alt enjoyed harclaves alot. Still, my 50 main at the time was in Splitpaw alot, even without Harclaves.</P> <P>And as far as giving good loot to everyone..they're revamping the dungeons so more people can have access to these nice loots..and they are NICE loots. Great legendary items that are better than rare-crafted and some sweet fableds. And lots of master spells. What're you complaining about?</P>

[Rymos]

<P>Magus,</P> <P> </P> <P>I wrote this with you and a few others specifically in mind.</P> <P>"I'm positive that the same few people will come through and debate each point that I made, as if there isn't a problem; well, I really don't need to tell you that there's a problem, just look at your guild roster, then go to a few newbie zones and talk to yourself, you couldn't give away a plat if you shouted it out because nobody would hear you."</P> <P>You wrote:</P> <P>"If that was your only reason for going there, you weren't really enjoying the adventure pack anyway."</P> <P>It's so great how you always tell people how they should feel and how they should enjoy things and when they've enjoyed too much.  Sounds to me like you have a far left political future ahead of you.</P> <P>Maybe some people are impressed by your synical responses to honest observations but I'm not.  Splitpaw was just the tip of the iceberg in my post; if that's all you had to comment on, then you too must want some of the same things, like a new influx of players.</P> <P> </P> <P>Niteflyx,</P> <P> </P> <P>I don't doubt that SOE has corrected some of the loot problems at the higher levels.  If you had ready my post, you would know that I think the problem right now is that we're not retaining new subscribers or trial players.  I don't think SOE has done anything to enhance loot at the lower levels yet to encourge people to continue playing.</P> <P> </P>

[Nitefl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rymos wrote:<BR> <P>Niteflyx,</P> <P>I don't doubt that SOE has corrected some of the loot problems at the higher levels.  If you had ready my post, you would know that I think the problem right now is that we're not retaining new subscribers or trial players.  I don't think SOE has done anything to enhance loot at the lower levels yet to encourge people to continue playing.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Cazic Thule = Revamped (38-45)</P> <P>Runnyeye = Revamped (28-35)</P> <P>Ruins of Varsoon = Revamped (25-32)</P> <P>All these are 25-45 zones, and I believe Fallen Gate is next (15-25) in the next Live Update.<BR></P>

[StoneySilen]

<P>I am lvl 42 Wizard, I also have a 32 Bruiser and a 27 Paladin.  I have never even SEEN a metal chest, and until the day before the wacked out metal chest bonanza I had never even seen a legendary piece of armor looted.  I in fact had never even harvested a rare item until they upped them.</P> <P>I agree there just isn't much of a reason to get excited in EQ2.  Mainly I am here because I hate WoW's butt-torrent patches and won't pay a 3rd party to download patches which I should get for free with ease from the company I am paying to play.  Plus I have hopes of someday farming plat to sell on SE.  But probably by the time I get there I will be bored out of my mind and the price of PP will be rock bottom.  It's already dropped from $10 a pp to about $5-7 a pp.</P>

[heke]

Maybe i am a minority, but loot never mattered to me when i was leveling. I never even knew master chests existed until late in my thirties. But i did quests all the time. What is killing the game for me is that this is not "ever quest". The expansion had about 200 quests, after that it is "raid the evening, log out, do not log in before next evening to raid again".<div></div>

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Niteflyx wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Rymos wrote: <p>Niteflyx,</p> <p>I don't doubt that SOE has corrected some of the loot problems at the higher levels.  If you had ready my post, you would know that I think the problem right now is that we're not retaining new subscribers or trial players.  I don't think SOE has done anything to enhance loot at the lower levels yet to encourge people to continue playing.</p> <p></p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Cazic Thule = Revamped (38-45)</p> <p>Runnyeye = Revamped (28-35)</p> <p>Ruins of Varsoon = Revamped (25-32)</p> <p>All these are 25-45 zones, and I believe Fallen Gate is next (15-25) in the next Live Update.</p><hr></blockquote>You forgot Blackburrow <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Nitefl]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magus` wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niteflyx wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rymos wrote:<BR> <P>Niteflyx,</P> <P>I don't doubt that SOE has corrected some of the loot problems at the higher levels.  If you had ready my post, you would know that I think the problem right now is that we're not retaining new subscribers or trial players.  I don't think SOE has done anything to enhance loot at the lower levels yet to encourge people to continue playing.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Cazic Thule = Revamped (38-45)</P> <P>Runnyeye = Revamped (28-35)</P> <P>Ruins of Varsoon = Revamped (25-32)</P> <P>All these are 25-45 zones, and I believe Fallen Gate is next (15-25) in the next Live Update.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You forgot Blackburrow <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah I was on my alt and loot was falling from the sky in forms of legendary drops, 'rare' crafting items, metal chests and master spells... To OP: Are you soloing or actually grouping to check these changes out? Because they're out there...</DIV>

[Nitefl]

<DIV>Double post.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Niteflyx on <span class=date_text>12-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:57 AM</span>

[Rymos]

<P>As I said in my original post, I think we're losing subscribers or potential subscribers starting on the Isle and into the early teens.  We're either losing subscribers or there are no new subscribers to begin with.  I think SOE needs to addres the problem all the way down to the lowest levels and not only in dungeons, as solo players will avoid them, and I think there's a large base of solo players.</P> <P> </P> <P>The only dungeons that I've been to since revamps are OOLS, RoV and the mine in Zek.  I Killed 30-40 named in OOLS and RoV combined and some named King in the mine in zek.  I received all wood containing Adept I's and an occasional treasured item.  I've not seen a master or a piece of legendary.  Maybe I'm just unlucky.</P> <P>My post was not about me.  I'm content with what I have now, I've had 2-3 accounts since launch and I'm not going anywhere any time soon.  I have about 10PP to my name at level 42 (As you can see, I don't level fast due to my limited play time and duo restrictions) and all the gear that I can possibly buy (Except Masters).</P> <P>My concern is for the longevity of the game.  I would love to see 30-40 people in all the newbie zones at all times, just like WoW or Lineage.  I would love to see an influx of new players asking for help (Many times in the past, I've mentored down to help people in FG or CL, it's what I enjoy doing).  Now you see one person /ooc'ing for hours about needing a group in FG or WC, never to be answered.  This is what we must address.</P> <P>Not all people gauge enjoyment based on what they loot, but many many players do, especially the younger crowd that we should be stealing from other games.  In order for this to happen, they need to see this excitement early on and often.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyway, so Magus, what zone is loot falling from the sky?  I think I might make an alt and take a visit.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Rymos on <span class=date_text>12-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:54 AM</span>

[ZachBos]

<P>Delete......</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by ZachBos on <span class=date_text>12-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:08 AM</span>

[Nuhus]

<span><blockquote><hr>Rymos wrote:<div></div> <div></div><div> </div> <div>This doesn't save the game, or economy.  This simply frustrates people into leaving the game.  SOE really needs to figure out why a game like WoW has 4.5 million subscribers and Lineage 2 has 2.5 million.  <b>They've obviously got it all figured out.</b>  WARNING:  Spoiler ahead..</div> <div> </div> <div><b>Neither WoW or Lineage 2 are very good games IMO (I've played both).  But they both bring something to the table:  They're not afraid to give treasure and loot to everyone for their time.  SOE acts like it actually costs them something to give nice loot; guess what, it doesn't, it's all just 0's and 1's.  Actually it costs them more to not give treasure to the average adventurer, it costs them in subscriptions.</b></div> <div> </div> <div>What I see happening is people getting into their teens and 20's, never having seen a master chest or any decent drop that they can use.  This really turns the average player off to the game.  There is no WOW factor.  Why is this?  These levels go by so fast, why would it be so bad for the average person to get one or two decent drops per level to keep them interrested, and to make them feel like they're getting something for their time invested?  These items would become obsolete fast enough, they would not ruin gameplay or the economy.</div> <div> </div> <hr></blockquote>I fail to see that being a contributing factor to people to not join or even leave the game. There is alot of nice loot in the game, fabled is supposed to be uncommon, that's what makes it special. You do not "need" Master spells or uber gear to play the game and enjoy it. They are nice to have for sure, but I understand that it is something that is hard to obtain, some things I may never have or see. It does not bother me, I play and enjoy the game without being all decked out with masters and fabled gear. There are some nice quests out there that give great legendary rewards, granted you have to work for them, but they are worth it. You can also purchase those fabled and legendary items on the market. Also adept III's are not bad either which if you gather and find the rare component it does not cost all that much. I've seen a master chest at level 16 from a solo mob, which I got, was it something I could use? Nope. SOE "acts" like it costs something, because it IS something to loot those things, if it wasn't it wouldn't be FABLED. The same reason I will likely never see an artifact or mythical item in the game, which there are very few I know of. If WoW and Lineage 2 has it all figured out, why are they not very good games? Games need challenge. </span><div></div>

[Yngwiem]

<DIV>I have played Wow and L2, but neither kept me interested longer than a week. So, I really can't compare EQ2 to them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, what you were saying about the economy is how I feel also. With the Attuning, economy well... sucks. The only things I have ever bought from the Broker are spells and bags. Why? My characters won't outgrow them. Sure spells get replaced and upgraded, but they can always be used. Armor? Nah.. in 5-10 levels, they are grey.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have seen 1 Master chest, and that was in one of the lowbie zones in Freeport. It was a Shout Master 1. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the Attuning, all my old gear goes to venders. Also, all the drops I get, I sell to venders as well. I figure if I can't sell my old equipment, not much point in setting up a seller.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit - As for Splitpaw, I don't go there. I found the zones way too overpowered for me. Do I not know how to play my character? Hmm... don't think that is it, since I was able to beat the Champion. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Yngwiem on <span class=date_text>12-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:58 PM</span>

[Kordran]

<P>I will say that with the lockout and once-per-level restricton on the quest, there wasn't really a need to nerf to drops in Harclave. And it wasn't a slight adjustment to the loot tables; they completely gutted them. Typical of the way SOE handles these things, they have a tough time finding any kind of a middle ground and instead bounce from one extreme to the other.</P> <P>Regardless of whether one thinks some of the recent changes have been good or bad, one thing is clear: SOE isn't sure what they really want this game to be. If there's some kind of Vision(tm), it certainly isn't readily apparent. One week there's the ability to buy back your shards; the next, there's no shards at all. One week there's a massive loot drops from named mobs, the next week, reduced back into oblivion. Right now, they're just all over the map and they need to work on getting some kind of cohesive vision for what they want this game to be when it grows up, and communicate that in a simple, direct and effective way to the players.</P> <P> </P>

[Nitefl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rymos wrote:<BR> <P>Anyway, so Magus, what zone is loot falling from the sky?  I think I might make an alt and take a visit.</P> <P>Message Edited by Rymos on <SPAN class=date_text>12-11-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>08:54 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>All the ones I mentioned above. When a group of guildie alts go to one of the revamped zones, I see several fableds looted a night. And what you're 'addressing' is being addressed by SOE as we speak. They can only do one zone at a time, and I'm sure the lowest dungeons (WC/FG/BB/SH) are going to be done soon enough.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>Edit: Don't believe me? Go to a broker and type in 'Master'.<BR><p>Message Edited by Niteflyx on <span class=date_text>12-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:07 PM</span>

[Markhe]

<span><blockquote><hr>Rymos wrote:<div></div> <div></div><div> Getting loot and treasure makes people happy, simple as it may seem.  </div> <hr></blockquote> Very much so.  Hence why the population of the bazaar on some EQ1 servers is higher than the population of entire EQ2 servers.</span><div></div>

[Dasein]

Incase you haven't been paying attention, the devs have been systematically upgrading the loot tables on many of the dungeon zones. Runneyeye drops lots of nice stuff, and Varsoons just got a revamp, and Fallen Gate is getting one in LU18. Hopwfully SE will be next, as that dungeon could use a lot more content given it's size.

[StoneySilen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Niteflyx wrote:</P> <P>Edit: Don't believe me? Go to a broker and type in 'Master'.<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by Niteflyx on <SPAN class=date_text>12-11-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>07:07 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>What does this prove?  Only that nobody has bought all the Master's from the big drop weekend yet.<BR>

[Yngwiem]

<div></div>Now that is funny! Edit - [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] Firefox didn't quote... this was in reference to the EQ1 Bazaar being more populated than EQ2 servers.<p>Message Edited by Yngwiem on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:03 AM</span>

[Rymos]

<P>Caswydian wrote:</P> <P>"Incase you haven't been paying attention, the devs have been systematically upgrading the loot tables on many of the dungeon zones. Runneyeye drops lots of nice stuff, and Varsoons just got a revamp, and Fallen Gate is getting one in LU18. Hopwfully SE will be next, as that dungeon could use a lot more content given it's size. "</P> <P> </P> <DIV>I'm glad they're revisiting these dungeons and revising the loot table and drop frequency; I can't wait to check them out.  The point that I'm really trying to make is that I think we're losing new / potential new people long before they get into dungeons.  Maybe I'm completely off base here.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the Bazaar comment;</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So true, especially when a GM would show up in the Arena as a giant halfling and let people pound on him.</DIV>

[The-Fourm-Pirate]

Get a group, and depending on your level go to Stormhold (17-24), RoV (26-30), Runnyeye (35-39) or Cazic-Thule (40-50). The devs have upped the drops in all of these zones, VERY nice stuff is in them, back at those levels I would have been drooling over them. Not to mention the abundance of rare drops in these zones as well, on one of my alts we got 6 rare drops in RoV in an hour and a half, 1 palladium, 2 jasper, 1 steel, 1 fir, and 1 pelt. Considering the Harclave took roughly 3.5 hours, even if we say it took you 2 hours to get a group for RoV (quite generous) you still had a chance at way better loot than you could get in the Harclave.

[Swoo]

<DIV>Games also need players...and thats something EQ2 have a shortage of, players quit? Not many newcomers? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only reason, I can see,  not to start to play this game, is the chance of being all alone, no one to share the experience with, lack of people to group with at lower levels etc. etc. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And the author of this thread sure has a point when it comes to Items, its all about drops in the long run. If you playing just for the viewings, take a walk in the woods, if only playing to meet other people, start to live, its a game, you want a challenge, you want rewards, and I really dont believe anyone who thinks that playing for 40 levels and still not got a good drop, is happy with the drop rate. Its not a good drop rate, an archievement when you finally find something worth to use, Its a [Removed for Content] scam.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would love to see a server setting where its much easier to level, find items etc and compare with the true orginally server setup, which server will appeal most players? It couldnt really hurt either side of player types, since this game is not a race, but still people thinks different when it comes to how much of once "real life time" you can spend on a hobby, game, play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/S</DIV>

[EyeForg]

<DIV><EM>Neither WoW or Lineage 2 are very good games IMO (I've played both).  But they both bring something to the table:  They're not afraid to give treasure and loot to everyone for their time.  SOE acts like it actually costs them something to give nice loot; guess what, it doesn't, it's all just 0's and 1's.  Actually it costs them more to not give treasure to the average adventurer, it costs them in subscriptions.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>Obviously you have never played Lineage 2 because that game has the WORST drop rates for any item out of all available MMO's.  I played a prophet to 64, a treasure hunter 61, and had 2 accounts full of chars > lvl 30 (7 chars > 40).  As to drops the only memorable drops I recieved was a Samarai Longsword (12m adeda) on my TH and a Sword of Nightmare (8m) off my prophet.  When you consider that equiping a character in the 60's runs about 200-300m adena that isn't crap.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In groups we've had some items drop but when your in a full party the odd's of you getting that drop are slim.  In L2 you have to play the market to equip your chars like I did (or ebay your adena).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course later I figured out that the chinese botters gave the best drops and made a good amount training them with my TH.  But still that was nowhere near what I made playing the market.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In L2 you could not in any sort of way play a char past 40 using only the items that dropped for you.  If you did you would still be using a low d grade and getting your [Removed for Content] handed too you buy mobs (or being a leech in the party you were in).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now in EQ2 it is 100% possible to play using only equipment you get from quests + mob drop items.</DIV>

[Dasein]

I think the problem is that we're looking at low level items from the perspective of more experience, high level players and not from the perspective of new players seeing these items for the first time. Item power is realtive - and so far as I can tell, players do not seem to be having a particularly tough time with the sub-20 content. Thus, if players are cpaable of getting through the content, it stands to reason that their equipment is on par with the challenges they will be facing, and so they are getting appropriate rewards.

[Jgok]

<DIV>Regarding the revamped loot in certain zones, I agree that those zones are a bit more fun now that they have loot you can drop a little drool over (if you're appropriate level).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But, looking at the two extremes of level covered by these zones... At the low end you've got Blackburrow, which is really around a level 15 zone to start, depending on how well set up your group is. Blackburrow is fine and dandy, but what about Antonica and Commonlands? What about all those wonderful named mobs in the newbie zones? (though I have heard that newbie zones are coming up for revamp soon.) What about the instances off of Antonica and Commonlands? What about the Isle of Refuge?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back on the IoR, there were (and still are) several named mobs that at one time dropped halfway decent (for the level) loot... But since they removed the mitigation on jewelry, several pieces of that loot are now just vendor fodder... though they do come in a nice shiny wooden chest. The only way to get anything Legendary on IoR is to complete the quest to kill the Orc leader... That's it, one Legendary weapon. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then at the high end you've got the Temple of Cazic-Thule, which is still a nightmare of mobs-inside-walls, bad pathing, and "can't see target..." At least that's the case where any of the named mobs spawn. Yes, it should be difficult, but I prefer my challenge to come from the mobs, not from having to move around for ten minutes to get a mob positioned so that my party can hit it, while at the same time dealing with the lizards who had a Passwall scroll stuffed up their... nose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plus, as far as I'm aware, there's ONE revamped instanced zone that drops T5 loot... The Chamber of Rulgax. The Overlord's Throne Room, despite the boss being level 42, still drops T4 loot. (Usually no-trade Legendary loot, at that). I haven't managed to try out the instanced zone in CT yet, since the access quest was broken for so long, but even if the loot is good, that's two instanced zones... All the others have not been revamped. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I get better loot in an hour in RE or CT than I would all day in LS or PF... So you've got higher-level players going into lower-level zones because of the loot factor. How many of you have seen a level 33 grouped with a level 60 running around in RE? That's how many level 60 folks are farming masters and rares these days... Named in RE are worth a lot more than named in other zones, and they're very easy to kill when you're level 60.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point to all this rambling? Spread out the revamp lovin'... Give the T5 instances some looking-over, and do something for Antonica and Commonlands while you're at it. I know it's a lot of work, but you know, it could be fun, too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>