To Test or not to Test (server population)

[ZeyGnome]

<DIV>The server population has been a hot topic recently, and it would be nice if we could have a reasonable discussion about it here in the Tester forum and ideas on how to increase the population while not destroying the Test environment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My ideas for increasing the population are:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Make Test a real server in the eyes of the general population.  Give us representation on eq2players, give us guild pages, and give us signatures just like all the other servers.  If there is a problem with some of the data (as I have heard as the excuse in the past) then omit that data from the pages.  I see that PvP has different information in their pages as well as in their signatures, so I know it can be done for us, so make us real in the eyes of everyone and give us those same benefits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Character transfers.  If someone if willing to transfer their character to Test, then they should be able to.  This is not character copies, but a move.   Personally, I have no problem if someone wants to move here and leave their original server behind.  Copies, on the other hand, is not something that should be considered to increase the population.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. Red name posting.  Moorguard wrote a FAQ for the Test server.  Having that either rewritten by someone with a redname and reposted or making it more visible in some way would help.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. When the people on the server have their Meet & Greet (Thank you, btw, to those who organize that) then a visible posting or front page notation on eq2players would be a great way to show it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those are some of the ideas I've seen floating around.  Let's see if there are other (reasonable) options out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Bre]

<P>I'll chime in with my thoughts. </P> <P>  I think our population drop is due to a few things. The normal ebb and flow of the server. We are a small server to begin with, so any small change has a bigger impact. The shiny has wore off the EoF, our competitors have released a new expansion, and Vanguard is bound to draw some away. It's normal and it will happen. This is a game so people will go where they think the most fun is. </P> <P>  Second, this is a Test Server. I don't think we can have equal representation on eqplayers because our system is so different. Example, how many times have you got the discovery for something you know has been done already? We get reset a lot. Although I would like a sig available saying that I am a Test Player. That would be nice. And players will never see us as legit with a name like Test server. It evokes the image of a non permanent thing. And I can completely understand why someone would not want to risk that much work on something seen as temporary. You can have all the red name posting otherwise you want. It will not be believed. </P> <P>  On the transfers, I'll go out on a limb here and say I would agree with it on a small scale. But I would hazard a guess that SOE will want all or nothing. Personally I would like to see comitted testers be givin the option to move thier toons here first then allow a small number of transfers of other players. I would love to see a small influx of good players.</P> <P>I'll add more later.</P> <P>Brega.</P>

[EtoilePirate]

<div><blockquote><hr>Crux72 wrote:<div></div>  On the transfers, I'll go out on a limb here and say I would agree with it on a small scale. But I would hazard a guess that SOE will want all or nothing. Personally I would like to see comitted testers be givin the option to move thier toons here first then allow a small number of transfers of other players. I would love to see a small influx of good players.<hr></blockquote>In the past -- well over a year ago, I think near or even well before the DoF launch -- a handful of committed Testers, maybe a dozen, WERE given a one-time transfer of their Live characters to Test, so there's a precedent for it.It's true we can't really have EQ2 Players representation, at least not detailed representation.  Things really are more flexible here -- look at all the custom titles floating around (because it's something they can do with / for us that doesn't actually affect gameplay, just makes us happy.  Look at how things get reset: item discovery, the froglok server unlock...  The 50% XP bonus means that time /played as related to level has a much different meaning... the fact that for Testing purposes we can simply have zone reuse timers removed... I'd like acknowledgement that the characters exist, and maybe a sig of level & TS level, but the rest of it just can't be.</div>

[ZeyGnome]

<P>We can have eq2players recognition, and we can have guild boards/pages, they just have to alter the data available.  Things that get reset are not collected then and not published.  I'm sorry, but to say we lose all the features of being a regular player because server discoveries are reset is just not a good excuse.  If the data sent was static, I could understand the problem, but since they can control what data is available and shown (PvP and PvE server differences) then this can be done also.</P> <P>And the Test server thing does bring up a good point, how about a name for our server?  Other games have named their test servers, why not do the same with ours, so it is more 'real'.</P> <P> </P>

[Bre]

<DIV>Yep I know that it has been done in the past, a few were in my guild. I would like to see it done again also.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brega.</DIV>

[Bre]

<DIV> There are a lot of things we can ask and wish for really. But honestly I don't expect a lot. We are in fact a Test Server, meaning we are not a finished product. That is the live servers. Asking SOE to put extra resources into what is, and should be, considered a testing ground is asking a lot imo. We get the ability to try break stuff first, a nice close knit community, our very own qa people to try and help us and the game. Honestly I am grasping at ideas for more that I need. Sure other stuff would be nice but dang I sure as heck don't need it. What exactly on eqplayers are you wanting so bad? Honest question there since I have rarely ever messed around with it. I always just assumed it was for looking up the stats of overachievers and bots. But I will be the first to admit that that assumption is based on little personal expierence.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brega.</DIV>

[ZeyGnome]

<P>They feel the population needs a boost, so putting some effort to enhancing the server to make it more attractive to the general population is not too much to ask imho.</P> <P>With the benefits of the server right now, we have attracted just about all that we ever will (it will ebb and flow of course), but since it was mentioned that some areas cannot be adequetly tested with the current population, then short of a character copy, we have to have other ideas to bring the numbers up.</P> <P> </P>

[EtoilePirate]

<div><blockquote><hr>ZeyGnome wrote:<div></div> <p>With the benefits of the server right now, we have attracted just about all that we ever will (it will ebb and flow of course), but since it was mentioned that some areas cannot be adequetly tested with the current population, then short of a character copy, we have to have other ideas to bring the numbers up.</p><hr></blockquote>The only times in recent memory that they badly needed more bodies than the "home-grown" population could provide, they got them.  One was more or less a disaster for us (the Fallen Dynasty beta), and the other was kind of cool (trying to crash or at least lag Qeynos when they removed TS instances).Just kind of throwing that out there.  For the bulk of content and patches, I think that, though few we are at any one moment, we manage to encounter, catch, and report a surprising amount.</div>

[Bre]

<DIV>   Ok, I think I missed the discussion where SOE came to Test and said that we were too few to test something. If you are referring to Venos' statements regarding Unrest then that has been settled. I did hear snippets about a conversation the other day asking for a population drive of some sorts, but I wasn't there so I don't know the full story. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brega.</DIV>

[Eveningsong]

There was a discussion on Saturday I think it was, where Venos was asking for input/suggestions with regards to encouraging more people to play on Test, given that our average population has fallen quite a bit recently. I believe the numbers he mentioned were that we are currently at around 40-70, whereas we were more like 70-120 just a few weeks ago. While most of us are pretty happy with the population being small and close-knit, the reality is that there needs to be a certain number of people playing regularly in order to, 1) have sufficient people to properly test things, including a range of levels, and 2) justify the existence of the server. To a large extent, I think the main thing stopping most people from even trying Test is that they would have to start all over from scratch. Even at a 50% exp bonus, its still time-consuming to level up to where many people would want to be playing, given that they may have level 70's on Live. And there is the on-going issue of difficulties obtaining gear, spells and advanced recipe books.

[Heattanu]

<DIV>There are things that could be done to boost the population on Test server, short-term and long-term, but most of them involve changes and disruption, greater or less. One question is how much disruption is acceptable to gain a long term boost in the population of dedicated testers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that most did not like the Fallen Dynasty beta testing with all the beta buffed toons running around and disrupting things. There was also disruptions to the economy as the beta equipment and plat issues were worked out. However, I think some lessons were learned and some people that came on for the "gold rush" stayed on the Test server permanently, including me and most people in my guild. Just before that beta, Test was in another population low period with the same arguements being discussed on this board. I was a part time tester then, but had Test Only forum access.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know this won't be popular, because it will be disruptive of the normally nice, quiet, tight-knit community, but what if they do another beta test for the Unrest zone testing? There is lots of interest on live servers regarding this zone, and there has already been discussion of how few people on Test meet the supposed level and equipment goals of the zone as stated by the devs. I would like to see this zone go live with as few bugs as possible, and there seem to be two basic strategies in testing:</DIV> <OL> <LI>Careful, meticulous, detailed analysis by the few experienced testers available, and</LI> <LI>Throwing a large number of fools at the zone to see what sticks (isn't that what fool-proof really means).</LI></OL> <P>We just don't have the numbers to really thoroughly debug a large, complex high level zone in the time that is likely to be available. So either we let Live servers do #2 (which damages SOE's reputation for releasing buggy content), or we let them do it on Test with copied or beta-buffed characters that are deleted after the big testing push. The point is that method 1 and 2 don't have to be exclusive. Focused, invitation only play tests, separate instances for GM guided groups, or other techniques could allow #1, even while the circus of #2 is going on.</P> <P>As I remember Test server settled down pretty quickly after FD beta was over, and the permanent Test population grew significantly from that event. But there were some ugly incidents during the beta testing and some long time testers temporarily left the server during the beta. So was it a shor-term failure, long-term success or both? Would it be worth it to do a open beta buff again?</P>

[ZeyGnome]

<P>I am one who also stayed after that beta, so I do know where you are coming from.</P> <P>While that would be a band-aid, it would be nice to have a more permanent solution that would keep the population flowing better than that.</P> <P>Test has a more mature player membership, that has to count for something.  Think of how many older or married couples would like a server like this.</P> <P>Test will never be the same population as a regular server, but it can have a higher population so that these baind-aids aren't needed.  I started this thread to brainstorm those ideas because of the discussion that Danna mentioned above.  </P> <P>We were asked, so why not just lay it out there?</P> <P> </P>

[Bre]

<P>Ok, since quality analysis asked for ideas on a population increase. </P> <P>1. Limited one way transfers given to established testers. Then a small number of live players allowed to do a one way transfer. Hard to decide who gets to come though. That's my best idea. </P> <P>Concerns.</P> <P>In no way should the FD debacle be repeated. Buffed toons with little to no regard for the server they are on and no rules they have to follow was not fun and I will walk away if it happens again. Period. </P> <P>I would write more but just remembering the whole FD thing has gotten me too peeved to type.</P> <P> </P> <P>Brega.</P>

[Heattanu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crux72 wrote:<BR> <P>Ok, since quality analysis asked for ideas on a population increase. </P> <P>1. Limited one way transfers given to established testers. Then a small number of live players allowed to do a one way transfer. Hard to decide who gets to come though. That's my best idea. </P> <P>Concerns.</P> <P>In no way should the FD debacle be repeated. Buffed toons with little to no regard for the server they are on and no rules they have to follow was not fun and I will walk away if it happens again. Period. </P> <P>I would write more but just remembering the whole FD thing has gotten me too peeved to type.</P> <P> </P> <P>Brega.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sorry to bring up bad memories, but I wanted to get options on the table and open beta testing is one (extreme). I also agree that it is kind of a bandaid, for what should be a normal population level on a perfectly playable server. Unfortunately, the Test server population problems illustrate why SOE did the server mergers last year. Low population servers can get into a downward spiral if the population density is too low - nobody wants to play there because of low population, so the population gets lower.</P> <P>Unfortunately, there aren't exactly lines of people just waiting for a one-way server transfer to be available either. There was a time when SOE active advertised and encourage people to transfer to Test and it was open to anyone. Hardly anyone took them up on that offer. And one player who did ended up vocally regretting it. Allowing testers to transfer their toons from live servers to Test is fine, but it does nothing for increasing population. Each account can only play one character at a time and I already have too many alts on Test (all 10 character slots filled, tyvm).</P> <P>I think that SOE and Test players should do a sticky thread on the In Testing forum about the positive incentives to playing on Test, and sticky the FAQ sheet for how to do it. Of course, even the forums only reach a small part of the EQ2 players.</P> <P><BR> </P><p>Message Edited by Heattanu on <span class=date_text>01-29-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:34 PM</span>

[Kadurm]

<P>In regards to what happened in FD beta, the thing that was the most disruptive about it was the ability for beta buffed and copied toons to leave the designated testing area and roam freely on the rest of the world.</P> <P>Now, if by chance they needed to test something to a massive lvl that would happen to need outside help from a set of live players mixed with the permanent test population, then proper thought and measures have to be put into place. </P> <P>1. Everything needed to test should be in the zone ie, menders, tradeskill instances or stations, merchants for buying and selling of looted treasures or even a mini broker for in zone selling. Anything else that would be needed, such as a beta buffer or food, drink supply.</P> <P>2. Limited access to ONLY the testing area for copied or buffed toons. We dont need em running amok in the world. They are here to test this area and this is where they should stay.</P> <P>3. Once the segmented time is over, all copied and buffed toons get deleted off the server and all merchants and testing stations are removed for more "normal" testing. Or for more pinpoint testing.</P>

[Bre]

<P>I'll agree with Cimee, the FD test would have gone fine had not the devs allowed the buffed toons free access to the entire server. </P> <P>And I am aware that allowing current testers to transfer toons from live will not help out population. Which is why I stated a small amount of live players could transfer over. </P> <P>The FD beta serves as a brilliantly perfect example of what will happen if anyone can copy over. Chaos. We would be far better served to allow a small number of transfers at a time and scale up or down as needed. Just posting in the forums will most likely result in people being upset that they have to give up all thier work. If they are allowed to transfer a main over then that takes the bite right out of thier argument. </P> <P>Either way this has been a fun little debate. But honestly I don't see a good solution in sight without SOE intervention. I just hope that if that happens they don't take a sledghammer approach. </P> <P> </P> <P>Brega.</P>

[ZeyGnome]

<P>I'm still not seeing a downside to allowing anyone to transfer over to Test, not just a limited transfer.  We are talking transfer, not copy, so someone would seriously want to be a part of the Test community if they moved their character over.  People like that we could use.  It'd be a one-way transfer, and like the Exchange servers, they couldn't move back.</P> <P>What am I missing that would be bad about this or why it would have to be limited to a few people?</P>

[Lunani]

<DIV>copying toons temporarily to test anything may be a solution to get the job done, but the real problem still exists. how to get more people permanently to test? </DIV> <DIV>we can discuss and post ideas what should be done, but that's just our opinion and not necessarily the opinion of live players. live players should be asked why they don't play on test and what needs to be done to get them to test. such a survey will probably produce lots of rubbish, but some answers might give the real reasons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I asked my live guild about this one, hopefully in a day or two I'll have some (interesting) answers.</DIV>

[Bre]

<DIV>Why a limited number? I guess I just like taking a careful approach first. Incremental adjustments seem better to me than just opening up floodgates and hoping for the best. Not that I think that many people would rush over if it was full on, but I just tend to like small adjustments first. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brega.</DIV>

[Bre]

<P>As for why people don't play here the most common excuses I see are. Sony doesn't pay me to test. My friends are on live. I don't want to start over. Test is too small. </P> <P>Of those, we can't really do anything about the pay (although wouldn't that be sweet <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )  A transfer might get friends over here. A transfer would kill the starting over excuse. And I think we all want Test smaller than Live. </P> <P>I'm sure there are more, but those seem to be the ones that pop up the most.</P> <P>Brega.</P>

[Tyrusstorm]

<DIV>I started a post on the general discussion board.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=169403" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffff00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=169403</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please feel free to disregard it or to add comments. Thank you to those who have already posted responses!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh I think I should say that I in NO way what so ever suggest in that post that I speak for TEST. I am a relative newcomer to test having only resumed play some time back in September and it was not my intent to portray myself as the voice of TEST. My sincere apologies if my post seems to suggest otherwise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My reason for posting was simple, Test is my home I had some concern and wanted to see if I could drum up some additional support in the way of new players moving/playing on test.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have always played EQ II on test, I started during late beta and left about 3 months after release. </DIV>

[Kadurm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crux72 wrote:<BR> <P>As for why people don't play here the most common excuses I see are. Sony doesn't pay me to test. My friends are on live. I don't want to start over. Test is too small. </P> <P>Of those, we can't really do anything about the pay (although wouldn't that be sweet <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )  A transfer might get friends over here. A transfer would kill the starting over excuse. And I think we all want Test smaller than Live. </P> <P>I'm sure there are more, but those seem to be the ones that pop up the most.</P> <P>Brega.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yep, that about sums it up. They won't move to the test server because of those reasons. The mass majority of them think that if they are asked to test something, then they either should get copies of thier main toons or loads of thank yous and free stuff on thier main. Or free gameplay. Pretty much what Brega said.</P> <P>And most of them wont transfer for those same reasons. BUT, I bet you can also find those same ppl that say they don't pay SoE to test thier game are the first ones to shout out in bad form when something isn't right with the game.</P>

[Selene1212]

I think if it was possible it might help testing certain areas if you could temporarily beta buff / level regular test players, while testing new areas only - sort of like a reverse mentoring. I'd love to help test certain areas and whatnot but with my main character only level 41 I'm useless. We may get 50% extra exp on test, but its still a grind while using sub par equipment or spells (due to lack of advanced books) in getting levels, esspecially with the low population. I don't know if its possible or not but I know quite a few regular test players that aren't yet level 70. /shrug

[Bre]

<DIV>Don't for a minute sell yourself short just because you are not 70 yet. That just means that you can test everything at 41 and below. And currently a lot more accurately since I would have to mentor to be 41 and mentoring makes you pretty uber for that lvl. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brega.</DIV>

[EtoilePirate]

<div><blockquote><hr>Selene1212 wrote:<div></div>I think if it was possible it might help testing certain areas if you could temporarily beta buff / level regular test players, while testing new areas only - sort of like a reverse mentoring. I'd love to help test certain areas and whatnot but with my main character only level 41 I'm useless. We may get 50% extra exp on test, but its still a grind while using sub par equipment or spells (due to lack of advanced books) in getting levels, esspecially with the low population. I don't know if its possible or not but I know quite a few regular test players that aren't yet level 70. /shrug<hr></blockquote>What, you think I catch more bugs on my 70 Assassin than on my just-49 Fury?  Pfft!  I think except for stability and graphical issues (oh, and broker ones, 'cause Kella's my merchant) it's mostly the other way around. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />And that's really the problem: there's a general perception that only level 70 testing is worthwhile.  That's where the "Well I want to copy my main" argument comes from, and it's all rubbish.</div>

[Selene1212]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EtoilePB wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Selene1212 wrote:<BR> I think if it was possible it might help testing certain areas if you could temporarily beta buff / level regular test players, while testing new areas only - sort of like a reverse mentoring. I'd love to help test certain areas and whatnot but with my main character only level 41 I'm useless. We may get 50% extra exp on test, but its still a grind while using sub par equipment or spells (due to lack of advanced books) in getting levels, esspecially with the low population. I don't know if its possible or not but I know quite a few regular test players that aren't yet level 70. /shrug<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What, you think I catch more bugs on my 70 Assassin than on my just-49 Fury?  Pfft!  I think except for stability and graphical issues (oh, and broker ones, 'cause Kella's my merchant) it's mostly the other way around. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>And that's really the problem: there's a general perception that only level 70 testing is worthwhile.  That's where the "Well I want to copy my main" argument comes from, and it's all rubbish.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I meant for raid-type testing (Like Unrest) I do what I can for /bug reporting when I come across them at my level, but right now I'm unable to test any major content because they always need/request the high levels. /shrug

[Sunrayn]

<P>First, a little story.</P> <P>Riverspath, my wife, had a ranger 'transferred' to test during that period of transfers when Igram and Sephiro were with us   We had been on test since...Lord, a couple months after it opened I guess but, we had already made characters on a live server and did all the /claim.</P> <P>She logged into live, got her character ready to go, to move permanently.  The 'transfer' came.  Her ranger, with her dragon, paintings, and other stuff were now on our home, test.</P> <P>About a month later, we had to log into live to help our daughter, who likes to roleplay, start a guild.  Imagine our surprise when River got to the character screen and there was her 'transferred' ranger.  A dozen levels lower than her test ranger but, with a dragon, paintings, all the things she had put on her character before transfer.</P> <P>I believe it was Igram who later told us that they couldnt actually 'transfer' a character so they 'copied' them instead.</P> <P>As someone else stated, the posters on the board are but a small part of the overall population and they are set in their ways.  We see the same people over and over citing the same reasons over and over for why they wont move to test.  It is the population of EQ2 that *dont* read the boards, that *dont* have preconcieved notions of test that will be the ones who might move to test.</P> <P>The six million dollar question is: How do we get to those people?</P>

[Badtidings]

<p>The single biggest thing the Test server has going for it that isn't as apparent on live servers is immediate access to QA and Development. There is seldom a day that passes that a known SOE employee isn't on the Test Server performing some function.</p><p>I have watched time and again how simple interactions with developers and the QA team have resulted in changes to the game. The Unrest tuning is a prime example.</p><p>And there are people who crave access to those types of interactions. So a simple step would simply be to have some actual planned events that are exclusive to the test server. You must be on test to participate, and while the event is taking place a number of SOE employees will be available to ask questions or take feedback.</p><p>A sample plan (note that this would be announced in advance on the live boards in it's entirety--in other words the dates for every event would be set and it would be clear to the reader that each event as time progresses needs approximately 5 more levels on the test toon to participate).</p><p>A drunken kelethin race with the requirement that you have a level 10 - 12 toon on test to participate.</p><p>Two weeks later a crushbone marathon with unique mob spawns that requires a level 15 - 17 toon on test to participate.</p><p>Two weeks later a butcherblock scavenger hunt with level 20 - 22 toons on test to participate.</p><p>Two weeks later... you get the idea. The events don't have to be masterfully planned or require much more than someone willing to use the commands available to any GM.</p><p>Guess what happens when people invest the time in leveling the toon to participate in the events <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Now obviously, those of us who have the time to do things to make those types of events more fun should do our best to help, but to my way of thinking, if Sony wants more test players they have to invest in a plan where they make it happen.</p><p><Together Alone></p>