Serious Concerns with the Beta Buffer

[EtoilePirate]

Well, as the title says: I have some serious concerns with the beta buffer on Test.I've been in the DoF and KoS Betas, not to mention on Test for well over a year, so I know how both work.  And Test is not a Beta server.  It is an actual server that is home to many.I understand that this is a major content push for levels 55+, and that 30-40 people are not sufficient to test it.  But truth be told I think I'd rather have a few select high-end guilds copied again than have a beta buffing toon on Test.This just feels like the top of a painful slippery slope to me.  For well over a year people have been clamouring publically that Test is insufficient, that we no longer deserve our server, that they should get to buff and copy and treat Test like a playground.  For well over a year SOE's stood by us and let us be an actual server.  And then, *poof*.  A Beta buffer.  So as soon as that news gets out, the next argument follows: you know you needed it for TFD, so you clearly need it all the time, so leave it.We all know the reasons why a server full of beta-buffed uber 70s is not what we want.  (They've all got Adept III skills and rare gear.  The hell?  All I got to test all of KoS was App II skills, and that wasn't even a server with "real" characters living on it!)  At least, I thought we did.I've heard that when TFD goes live, all the buffed toons will be deleted from Test.  That's about the only thing that's kept me from running and screaming and tearing my hair out and abandoning the server I've played on since I first started playing this game.  I want Test to grow, yes, but this is not how.<div></div>

[bcbroom]

<P>I saw some players last night that had very inappropriate names and/or were rude and insulting.</P> <P>I'm witholding judgement for now, but this seems like a slippery slope.</P>

[Evadne]

<DIV>wow, had a heckuva time getting the chance to reply here....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>darn Lithium....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OK, devils advocate suit is on, like my horns?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is a trade off needing to happen here.  Sony is providing a server for a small population, trying hard to protect it's community and supporting that in the forums.  A single server for around 100 players.  We have access to QA folks, get new content before anyone else and generally live here because we like the smaller community.  But, this is a test server and if we don't want them to give us a one way ticket to a Live server of their choice, we have to accept the choices they make to get the game tested.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure, SOE could do more to attract legit testers to the server for the long haul.  But for now this is what they think will work.  A temporary copy.  Is it a slippery slope?  As arguements go, I have used it myself, but it is fallable.  I don't think they are traveling down a path blindly.  They need the AP tested.  There are not enough testers. They need more players on test, there are not enough resources devoted to making that happen and so if we want more to be done we need to do it ourselves.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we want more legit testers, perhaps we should unofficially recruit?  If we want to protect our community, perhaps we need to help it grow on our own? The community is our business, testing the game is theirs.  Some of those buffies were quite friendly and nice to me today.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not saying there aren't problems with it, I see them too.  The buffies are powerhouses compared to regular characters on test.  But perhaps compared to live server they are more the norm?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scary thought.....what if they find they get better feedback out of these buffies than they did from us "testers"??  So, lets not waste our time on this, and get going on debugging the product.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Eva</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*burn baby burn*  Fewf, hot here in the devils playground....</DIV><p>Message Edited by Evadne on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:23 PM</span>

[Lunani]

I think it's a good decision to put the buff bot in. Interested live players can preview and maybe even test the adv pack. On the other hand test community is protected by deleting those toons after the beta.We shouldn't only see the negative aspects of this. It is a chance for us. If we are open minded and treat those players like we would treat any other regular tester maybe some of them decide to make test their new home. Even if only 1 decides to stay we have won a new tester.

[Kadurm]

<P>I'm never a fan of freebie and lawless conduct or whatever the correct word here would be. But I can see that advantages that this will give the Devs with ALOT more testing of the content as it was stated earlier that there is not but a small handful of full time testers even in the lvl range to test this new AP.</P> <P>Sure they get adept 3s ans rare armor and some other stuff. But what they dont get are full AAs and we all know how lacking even the rare armor is at T7.</P> <P>I'm not too worried about these beta buffers coming in and ruining any standard of living that we have, as they will almost certainly be in and around the new content. I can't see a mass of them gathering to go raid all the T7 zones in KoS or DoF. We know from experience that they are not given the gear or abilities to accomplish this.</P> <P>Now as far as the rudeness and all out *live rules, test sucks* mentality. This is their shortcomings and not ours. Once this AP is gone from testing and released, all of those rude ppl will be back on their own servers being treated just as they are treating us.</P> <P>Who knows, we might even get a REAL tester or two out of this and add to our growing family of friends and testers.</P> <P>Willing to give it a go, but trust me. This beta buffing is NOT something I see as a permanent placement on the server.</P> <P>And we all know that there is very little time and a whole LOT of testing needing to be done. This is the one small chance the live servers have to get what they asked for and we shall see what becomes of it. I think they will realize that testing is alot more work than most are willing to put up with.</P> <P> </P>

[Purr]

<P>My concern goes far beyond the 3 weeks of us getting screwed over. This and the fact that those lvl 70 buffs roam all over Norrath instead being confined to the AP3 - which they are supposed to test !!! will change Test forever. How ?</P> <P>I needed not more than 10 minutes to find 15+ lvl 70 Buffs farming other zones and powerleveling their not buffed twinks. You want a level 70 within 2 weeks without actually working for it ? Now is the time : SoE gave you all the tools. Even after (if they do it at all) SoE deletes those buffed chars, the damage is done and I see a lot of people leaving. People who love Test and leveled their chars the honest way through all the problems Test has. People who bugged every glitch and problem they found along this way.</P> <P>Test will change - and not for the better, because this will make more oldtimer tester leave then it will bring in new people that stay long term.</P> <P>Take action now, Dev's, and restrict those testbuffed chars to the actual area/zones they are supposed to test. Them farming and PLing doesn't get you the results you need either.</P> <P>Purr~</P>

[Kadurm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Purrfect wrote:<BR> <P>Take action now, Dev's, and restrict those testbuffed chars to the actual area/zones they are supposed to test. Them farming and PLing doesn't get you the results you need either.</P> <P>Purr~</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sounds fine to me. Isolate the test buffers to what and where they need to be testing anyway.

[Sunrayn]

<P>I have the feeling that by allowing betabuff this time, that the screaming from live players wanting character copies or permanent /testbuff is going to increase, dramatically.</P> <P>How will this all pan out from here on out? Time will tell.  Meantime, while the beta testing is going on; I have been having a good time working on some of my tradeskilling alts in the safety of the workshop in my basement and ignoring all the test channel chatter from 100 /betabuff characters wondering if they can transfer the gold and loot to an alt so it doesnt get destroyed.</P>

[Reebwen]

I don't mind the beta buff bot much, but the thing that bugs me is that I wish SOE would of gave us a day to test out the AP for test only. I mean thatis what we are here for. I got a few tells today and they were mostly "How did you get your horse and title" or "Can I get an invite to your guild".I pretty much left the zone for awhile after that lol. I figure I'll try testing it at off peak hours when the ap is less busy.<div></div>

[Joren_Wolfheart]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Reebwen wrote:I don't mind the beta buff bot much, but the thing that bugs me is that I wish SOE would of gave us a day to test out the AP for test only. I mean thatis what we are here for. I got a few tells today and they were mostly "How did you get your horse and title" or "Can I get an invite to your guild".I pretty much left the zone for awhile after that lol. <font color="#ff0000">I figure I'll try testing it at off peak hours when the ap is less busy.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>That's it exactly, Tranmek.  You go into the AP zone, and are flooded with /shouts /ooc's about every little thing, random group and duel invites.  And everyone flooding the channel with "Where do I go for this, who do I talk to."I will admit that some of the people I've seen do seem to be wanting to test this content, but a lot were simply around the buff area dueling with others to "play with the class."  I've even been griped at for having a carpet that I earned from a quest because.  "Hey, I didn't get one of those, that's not fair."I did notice that some toons from a particular guild were copied.  And I am fine with that.  They seem to be good people who really want to test the content.I noticed that you were given the option to buff to a number of levels.  How many 55's and 60's were there?  None...nada.  They were all lv70's.  They don't care one bit about testing the low stuff, they just want to go see where the loot is going to be.Now, I am of course jaded, because all that I've read on these forums and in test chat is how we are incapable of testing content and that the Dev's should do everyone a favor and wipe the community there and allow for copies.  In these posts/chats, I have yet to see one SoE say one word in our defense, or even to agree with them.  It seems that threads that bash any group are immediately locked, but posts that insult the testing community are left to get more and more hateful as time goes on.  I personally find this disheartening.  On the other hand, there are some, such as Igram, Venos, Sephiro (while he was with us), and recently Zoltaroth, that have stood up for us and actually made us feel like what we do is important.  And this is the big reason why I can still log into the Test server and play, despite all of the other comments.Do I expect these people to last very long?  NoDo I see them destroying the test server?  NoDo I see them destroying morale and making the testers feel less important than they already feel?  You betcha.Maybe I'm taking this too hard, but it was incredibly disheartning to log in today and watch as a lv1 Warden was immediately buffed to lv70 with all adept3's (a feat which I am having a hard time accomplishing on my own) and similar armor to my own, to watch him say "Hey, cool, I've always wanted to play a high level warden."  How is this helping test the content?  You're going to have groups full of people that don't know a Heal-over-time spell from a debuff running around saying everything is too hard, simply because they haven't taken the time to learn anything about the class.  And to see the same buffed characters frantically mailing items to other toons/alts to twink them is also a bit upsetting.I understand the need for stress testing, and the desire to have as much good feedback as possible.  And I will do my part to see that this adventure pack gets tested, whether I think the "buff babies" are frustrating or not.I guess that I just want to feel like what we do is important.  And this matter simply makes me feel like an insignificant speck, which I suppose I really am.I've somehow crossed the line between something that I enjoy playing, and something I've become passionate about.  I believe in the Test server, and want to see it grow and become something respected.  When there is new content to be pushed, I want the Dev's to be excited to see it in the hands of Testers.  We're getting there.  Maybe too slowly, but we are.  I just hope that when we get there, we haven't ran off a majority of the good testers.Addition:  To quote another thread  "It is not rational that we have to level  our characters to test things out."<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=77910" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=77910</a>This is what the majority of what I hear on the forums and in the test channel (from non-testers) is.  And it really makes me sad.  And makes me not want to care about testing content.  Lack of motivation = bad tester.  And the reserves of motivation on Test are depleting as it is without the help of people who badmouth us.</div><p>Message Edited by burgeswe on <span class=date_text>05-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:25 AM</span>

[Bhagpuss]

I posted in the other thread about this topic, but as this appears to be the live thread I'll comment here as well: I have beta'd several EQ1 expansions where they use a separate beta server and a betabuff command. Some of those expansions had low and mid level content. It was virtually impossible to find anyone who buffed to any level below the max. I tried to test lower content, as I am a player with very little interest in high end content in any game, but I only ever met one or two others below max level. It was hard to find people even at the max who would do pick-up group testing of new content. Most players used the betabuffing to play classes they didn't have at high levels, see existing zones they didn't have access to on their own servers and to kvetch endlessly about how badly equipped the beta characters were. There have been many threads on this on EQ1 and what I saw seems to have been most people's experience. As far as I can tell, most of the real high-end content there was actually tested by invited guilds operating under direction from Devs/QA. The open beta part seemed to exist primarily to generate word -of-mouth interest in the expansions. Basically, it's a marketing tool not a testing one. That's all well and good on a special beta server that wipes and closes on release. EQ1 did not betabuff on its permanent Test Server, however. I would recommend a seperate beta server, ideally. Failing that, I would recommend locking the betabuffed characters to the AdPAck zones. For the duration, I have left the Test channel with all my characters on Test. It will certainly quieten down once LU24 goes live, and in the meantime I plan on keeping myself to myself.

[Dyeana]

<DIV>Wow !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do I get to go over and try ou a PVP server (like Nagafen) in the meantime??  I would sure love to testbuff a character and get some well deserved paybacks for my enjoyment on live servers!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kadurm]

<P>I saw the funniest thing today that ANY beta buffer has done or went through. He buffed himself to lvl 70 Pally..and thought he was gonna be a badbutt and come into east FP, where the highest guards are lvl 50. He was running around (avoiding the epic ones) and killing off all the lvl 50 heroic grey ones.</P> <P>I said to him tsk tsk, you are very brave. At which point he ran off saying something to the effect of "Your momma"</P> <P>Well, one little mention of this in the chat channel had our lovely Zoltaroth in EFP with a lvl 50 guard possesed and TOTALLY pwned this guy. Was VERY funny to see him drop in like 3 seconds.</P> <P>KUDOS to Zol </P> <P>But yet another way that they are seriously abusing the betabuff ability. And this is something they have been asking for? can you imagine how bad it would be server wide if a buffer was allowed for everyday testing?</P> <P>I think these ppl are proving to everyone what we have been saying all along. No beta buffing for the sake of any real testing. Otherwise its just a playground for kids and ppl wanting to get exploits and hand outs.</P> <P>Oh, and I dont think that lvl 50 Pally in TS will be attacking NPCs there again and both Lucky AND Myself whipped him good in duels.</P>

[Xaana]

<P>I don't want to start a big deal or anything but I think the betabuffer is a good idea.  Anything that brings more ppl to this bare, desolate server is good.   I don't want the beta buffer to stay forever, but i think it wouldn't be absolutly horrible if the buffed characters stayed after ap testing was over.  </P> <P> </P> <P>p.s. not to throw stones in glass houses but i do notice that some of the same ppl complaining about the buffed characters ruining test are the same ppl that took advantage of the spire event to powerlevel themselves.   </P>

[EtoilePirate]

<div><blockquote><hr>masburrito wrote:<div></div>p.s. not to throw stones in glass houses but i do notice that some of the same ppl complaining about the buffed characters ruining test are the same ppl that took advantage of the spire event to powerlevel themselves.   <hr></blockquote>Me personally, I got levels 57 and 58 out of the Spire event.And the Spire event didn't give me full Adept IIIs or rare armor.</div>

[Heattanu]

<DIV>Let's keep the impact of these beta buff toons in perspective. It's not the end of the world as long as its temporary. I live in Alaska and its kinda like local residents of a tourist attraction town. You know you kind of need them, but they try your patience. Remember to smile and be nice (and secretly hope the bears get some of the stupider ones). They'll be gone soon enough and you might meet some nice people too.</DIV>

[Kadurm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masburrito wrote:<BR> <P>I don't want to start a big deal or anything but I think the betabuffer is a good idea.  Anything that brings more ppl to this bare, desolate server is good.   I don't want the beta buffer to stay forever, but i think it wouldn't be absolutly horrible if the buffed characters stayed after ap testing was over.  </P> <P> </P> <P>p.s. not to throw stones in glass houses but i do notice that some of the same ppl complaining about the buffed characters ruining test are the same ppl that took advantage of the spire event to powerlevel themselves.   </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Incase you havent noticed, most ppl dont mind the beta buffers as long as they are contained to the AP as they should be. This was not put in place to have mass hysteria running amok througout the server. But to TEST the AP. When someone betabuffs a toon and heads straight to EFP to start killing guards, for whatever reason, that is NOT testing anything. That is abusing the gratuity of the devs and programmers.</P> <P>And I dont know about YOU. But CImee gained ALL his lvls the hard way. </P>

[ThunderingChicken]

<div></div>Well, if you earned your levels the hard way... like Zaan did, and I did, and Kella, and Zaks, and Cimmee, and Tor, and my mom, and most of the originals did.... then Zaan OBVIOUSLY wasn't talking to you. So no need to flex our buttocks on here and make sure everyone knows who got there levels right... big whoo at this point in the game.  If you feel like you have to post how y ou got your levels you must feel guilty about something. It is what it is... SOE needs people in this game.. badly.  Their fanbase is leaving.. and quickly. Oh and for those of you who believe Test is a "real" server.. SOE doesn't see it that way, and never will. Get used to it.Ducky<div></div><p>Message Edited by ThunderingChicken on <span class=date_text>05-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:20 AM</span>

[Kadurm]

<P>How did you know I could flex my buttocks?. Don't tell me that video made it out!!!</P> <P>Not trying to stir up the pot there Duckman, just a tad irritated of the abuse of a well thought out and generous gift from the game makers. But this is exactly what was stated would happen if and when they ever got a beta buffer. Hopefully all will edge back to normal soon.</P> <P>But in defense of all the testers that have been here the long time. We should have had  a week of testing this AP in server only before the stress testing was done.</P>

[ThunderingChicken]

www.flexcimeeflex.com/ohmythatsjustgross<div></div>