New Tradeskilling System

[Dyeana]

<div>Had a chance to try some experience under the new tradeskill system. </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> <strong><font size="6" color="#ff0000">WHAT A PIECE OF CRAP!!!!!!!</font></strong></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>That is putting it mildly.  Was playing my alchemist, doing level 61 and 62.  Combining level 60 spells and potions to get level 61 and level 61 spells and potions to get to level 62.</div><div> </div><div>Problems I see are:</div><div> </div><div>1.  Go through vitality too fast. - Out of vitality in a bit over a level.  Needs adjusted.</div><div> </div><div>2.  Too many resources needed for a combine. - If it was the the equivalent of the old number of resources needed, it could be better.  But in the current configuration, it is far too many resources needed per combine of a spell.  11 resources and 10 fuels per spell, and 3 resources and 4 fuels for a potion seem way out of whack.  Had 3 people collecting for me and ran out of resources way too fast.  May need to also adjust the number of drops per harvest, harvest locations, and number of resources per harvest node.</div><div> </div><div>3.  Experience per combine too low.  - With vitality, 3 percent per spell and a tinge over 1 percent per potion is too low.  Without vitality, a half percent per combine or less is too excrutiating for even level combines.  For combines at lower levels it is even worse.  Experience need to be increased tremendously, especially once out of vitality. 5 hours to go 18 percent without vitality was extreme misery. </div><div> </div><div>4.  Length of combine too long. - It takes to long to do a combine under this new system.  3 to 14 minutes with the average of 4.5 minutes a combine is way too long.  This was to get pristine quality.  Was averaging 9 events, 4 critical successes, and 3 critical failures to overcome per combine.  It was killing me to try and maintain any concentration with constant attention needed for this long for each combine.  Isn't this excessive?  Not sure what the fix is here.  Everything at a final combine level with the increased critical failures popping up frequently is too much. </div><div> </div><div>5.  Sell back to vendors seems low. - Sell back to vendors seemed a bit too low commiserate with the level, effort, and experience.  Throw in the costs of the spell scrolls and books, this is an extreme loss.  Needs increased.</div><div> </div><div>6.  Potions for these levels are useless. - The potions I was making were absolutely worthless for use.  No one wanted them.  Level 10 potions delivered better than these level 60 potions.  At least increase the effect commiserate with a level 60 to 70 using the potion.  This might have been what I was viewing, being a level 62 tradeskiller and level 35 adventurer, but to me the potions are worth little to other players.  Example, a health potion increasing 4 points is totally useless to a level 60s player with several thousand HP. </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Overall impression of the new tradeskill system - Scrap it and return to the old system.  If keeping, scrap the need for any tradeskill items in the game and increase the quality and amount of items being dropped from NPCs.  This new system is too painful as it is currently configured.   I myself working a alchemist or sage could not see a single nice feature to this new system.  Looks to me players are definitely going to have to get used to getting all their spells from the vendors at app 2 levels since this is too much hassle to waste any time making spells for guild and others.  I sure can't keep up with harvesting and making spells at this rate, timewise or monetary. </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Just my 2 cents on a very disappointing new system.</div><div> </div><div>Dye</div>

[bcbroom]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dyeana wrote:<div> </div><div>2.  Too many resources needed for a combine. - If it was the the equivalent of the old number of resources needed, it could be better.  But in the current configuration, it is far too many resources needed per combine of a spell.  11 resources and 10 fuels per spell, and 3 resources and 4 fuels for a potion seem way out of whack.  Had 3 people collecting for me and ran out of resources way too fast.  May need to also adjust the number of drops per harvest, harvest locations, and number of resources per harvest node.</div><div><hr></div></blockquote><p>I agree to some degree with everything Dye said. One of the more painful ones is the drop in relative quality for crafted items (both normal and rare). This is a bit subjective (what is better? crafted vs dropped quality, etc) and, I would expect, least likely to change.</p><p>The point above about resources is right on.  Harvesting used to be something you could do easily solo, fairly casually.  I used to harvest a fair amount, and when I was in harvest mode, I didn't want to spend time killing mobs.  With the new system, harvesting is either hard, or simply time consuming.  The main areas I've gone to are on the main isle in TT...the ore node area with the sentries, the root area by the pyramid, and the pelt area by the dog things. Generally it takes killing 1-2 mobs to get a node (sometimes you can hit 2-3 at once, but sometimes you need to clear several out to get there).  The pelt area is the worst, as the gorg's (or whatever they're called) wander and are social. There are like 15 of them in that area, guarding 5-6 pelt nodes. You almost have to clear the entire area to harvest the pelts. The bottom line is that harvesting is much slower than it used to be.</p><p>Combine that with using more raws per combine and you get some frustration from the crafting people.</p><p>I really don't have that big a problem with the new harvesting system, but combined with the higher number of raws it makes it difficult.  My guess is that the new system was designed to combat harvesting bots, and it will likely work (untill that area greys out).  One new problem that will crop up is an increase in people waiting untill someone else clears the mobs, then jump in and harvest...or harvest while they are in combat.</p><p>well, thats my venting for a while. </p><p> </p>

[Xaana]

<div>5.  Sell back to vendors seems low. - Sell back to vendors seemed a bit too low commiserate with the level, effort, and experience.  Throw in the costs of the spell scrolls and books, this is an extreme loss.  Needs increased.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>The price of fuels have been lowered.  You are paying less for a stack of 100 t7 fuels then you did for a stack of 100 t6 fuels before kos.  The sellback price is directly related to fuel price.  That is why the sellback is less than what we got for t6 stuff, but you are paying less too.  Any t6 stuff you make now will also cost less to make, and sellback for a smaller amount. </div>

[bcbroom]

<div></div>actually the sellback for t6 will likely be higher, because fuel cost for worts and subs.  Vendor sellback is tied directly to cost to produce, with something factored in for the raws.

[Evadne]

The raws are tough to get to, but as time passes and we level they will get easier and therefore as people hunt them for rares as they climb in level, the resources will pile up.  However, I suspect these mobs will always be at least green.  What concerns me is the resources are pretty much in demand on TEST imagine how it must be on live for a crafter to get ahold of them if they don't have oodles of friends willing to harvest for them.For the provisioner there is an increase in raws used but an equal increase in yeild <b>so far</b>--I am only 61.  So, other than supply of raws is a bit hard to come by, only one thing bothers me about the change,  I am using the raw from another type of node.....the roots.~Eva<div></div>

[EtoilePirate]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Evadne wrote:For the provisioner there is an increase in raws used but an equal increase in yeild <b>so far</b>--I am only 61.  So, other than supply of raws is a bit hard to come by, only one thing bothers me about the change,  I am using the raw from another type of node.....the roots.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I imagine the roots are in terrifically high demand on Live, then -- is there a profession left that has no need of them?  And they're the node I've seen the least of in KoS, too.  I've got my harvesting spots for ore (surrounded by blue mobs), gems (under a named mob), and provisioner bushes (luckily, near mobs I have positive faction with), but I hardly ever come across any roots.  Guess I'll make sure to pull all the ones I do find.</span></div>

[imbitten]

<div></div>To answer your question about what it's like on live (yes i play there too) primetime is everyone screaming about node theft and bots this weekend I stayed up late on purpose just so I would have a chance at roots / bushes, I don't stand a chance at ore / stone for my other tradeskillers so my provisioner is getting slowly leveled.  Welcome to Kingdom of Sky the only place in or around Norath where I have witnessed raids for harvestable goods, 2 groups killing mobs 2 groups harvesting. When that happens I just hang it up an log off.

[Torali]

<div></div><p>If anyone wonders why I haven't been logging in lately....this is the reason.</p><p>My advice? Flush crafting down the toilette and tell us all tough luck. It's floating in the water, just push the handle.</p>

[Evadne]

Agreed Tor.  And the largest reason is: Harvesting and the associated use of raws.  It is no where near abundant enough nor accessable enough in relation to how many are needed to craft. Add to that, you use twice as many raws in each recipe but get half the xp.I really had what I thought was a good idea once.  Early tier recipes should be refines, mid tier have batch recipes, like a pitcher of xegonberry juice. Or carafe of wine.  Late in the tier have the longer duration mutli part recipes. If you use batches as your components you get more yield and less xp. But if you use single refines you get less yield more xp.~Eva<div></div>

[Purr]

<div></div><div></div><p>I so agree with Tor. But then - We can't log into Test with our main systems anyway, so I guess both of us will not only throw the towel considering crafting, we might do it all together.</p><p>Hey SoE ! Are you Devs at least from time to time playing this game yourself ??? </p><p>Ever tried crafting under the new system >without< the ability to just summon every component and book you need for it ?  Ever tried to level a Carpenter with just two recipes per level and really nothing that is in any demand ???</p><p>Ever actually read what's posted here on the Test boards and react to a problem WITHOUT somebody special sending you an e-mail pointing out the problem ?</p><p>*shakes her head and starts packing her suitcase*</p><p>Purr~</p><p>Message Edited by Purrfect on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:37 PM</span></p>

[Xaana]

<div></div><p>I know I am probably in the minority here, so please don't lynch me.  I like the new crafting changes.  I would imagine that live would be a nightmere but I am having no problems harvesting the raws needed here on test.  Yes you need to kill the mobs to get to the raws, but if you stick to TT it is mostly solo mobs around the nodes.  I think i harvest in all of the same places that Kella mentioned too. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And when you reach adventure lvl 70 most of TT will be greyed out making harvesting even easier, which is exactly how Dof panned out.   Like kella mentioned there are clumps of ore, clumps or stones, clumps of animal traps, and clumps of provisioner bushes, but no large area for clumps of roots.  At least none that i have found.  (A few small clumps here and there in TT and barrons.)</p><p>I do wish they would up XP a bit, but I am not have too much of a problem leveling.   ( Although I'd imagine that two receipes would be a daunting nightmere)  I have been doing the tradeskill writs which pay out nicly (50ish gold), and give me a bit of purpose w/out subs. </p><p>T7 is a bit of an adjustment.  AS a jeweler I am use to 5 levels of prep (making worts, inks, spikes, and ornaments), with a big sprint to the finish.  Now every level is the same.  I am not preping for anything. </p>

[Bhagpuss]

<div></div>My highest crafter is a 52nd Provisioner on Oasis. I've never thought Provisioning was very representative of EQ2 tradeskilling, though - it always seemed to be out on a branch off the main trunk, so to speak. Mordita, my necro on Test, is on hold at 19th Sage, waiting for the new system to come in before she continues as a Scholar (or the other way round, whichever it is <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).The comments in this thread are making me somewhat nervous. I've really been looking forward to losing refines and subcombines, and I thought the whole point of revising the tradeskill system was to make it not only simpler, but also more appealing to a general audience. If determined crafters like Torali and Purrverse are finding it heavy going, though, I can't see how it's going to attract people who already found the old system too slow and tedious.I seriously hope we are given a good run at the full new system on Test before it goes live, as I don't think it is fair to judge on the experience of crafters working at the very lowest and very highest tiers. I was very pleased with the changes as they were originally described, but it is essential that whatever system we end up with is, at the very least, no slower or more tedious than the current one, otherwise what on earth is the point of changing it at all?<Edit>I just took the trouble to go and look at some of the Live boards, specifically Provisioner and Carpenter, to see what people are saying about the new system at T7. To my surprise, both boards seemed very positive about the changes. Difficulty of actually getting to the harvesting nodes aside, the Provisioners generally seem to love the new system, while the Carpenters hated T6 so much they seem to think that even having only 2 combines per level is an improvement, because 2 good items is a better deal than 5 bad ones (boy, do they hate meatbuckets).<p>Message Edited by Bhagpuss on <span class="date_text">03-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:39 PM</span></p>

[Kaknya]

 Of course that is one of the main differences between test and live, there will be many more people harvesting in KoS and selling on the broker then we have on test. Heh,.. last night when i was in TT, there were only 3 of us in the whole zone..<div></div>

[Kuulei]

<div></div>I was getting more experience making a level 54 recipe (colbalt arrows) with my woodworker than I do making a level 62 recipe (rosewood baton) go figure. <span>:smileytongue:</span>with viatlity, just under 1% a combine for a level 62 even con recipe.  To gain a full level as a woodworker with vitality its about 110 combines, or roughly 11 stacks of rosewood, 5 stacks of adamanite, 7 stacks of pelts <span>:smileysad:</span><span></span>I would need a group of gathers working every day to get the supplies if I wanted to gain 2 levels a week.without vitality it jumps up 50% more raws neededSince that isn't feasible, it will be slow and painful, at the rate I am going now I am guessing i'll hit 69 somewhere around the middle of June <span>:smileysurprised:On a positive note, my sage is 65 already, yay for getting more than 2 recipes a level (which appears to be the biggest problem with 75% of the tradeskills, just not enough recipes to get that first pristine bonus to make any difference)</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Kuulei on <span class="date_text">03-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:05 AM</span></p>