Please clarify the status of the exp bonus and vitality

[Edowen]

<div></div><div></div>Dear Igram and Ronobi and other SoE folks who read this, This post is about two distinct issues, the exp bonus for Test, and vitality at 50 and higher.  The point of the message is to ask for clarification about them.  Feldman knew about these two issues and confirmed to me that there was an issue with vitality, but never answered anyone when we asked about the status of the exp bonus on Test.  He said he was not able to get an answer about that and that a lot of people who could help answer were on vacation. <ul> <li>Shortly before DoF was released, the exp bonus for Test was turned off due to a SoE making a change to the underlying software that implements exp bonuses.  This was acknowledged and we were told it would be reinstated.  The command to toggle the exp bonus works started working again, but a good number of people (myself included) have been wondering ever since if the regular 50% exp bonus for Test has really been turned on again and, if so, if it is working properly.</li> <li>Then, starting about two weeks ago, I (and maybe others) reported a bug with vitality.  At or above level 50, vitality is being spent at about at least twice the rate as you gain exp.  In other words, if you gain 5% exp you lose at least 10% vitality.  I have seen no problem with my toons who are below 50 either adventuring or tradeskilling.  This is definitely happening for my 51 monk.  At least one tradeskiller has told me that he is seeing the problem on his toon who is a 50 armorer, if memory serves.</li> <li>Since then, I have been wondering (but have not experimented to test) whether having vitality (or not) is affecting the rate at which one gains experience.  Today I saw a post on eq2test that appears to confirm that people are getting the same exp per kill regardless of the state of their vitality. </li> </ul> Given that the software that implements bonus exp has been changed, it is possible there is a bug (or maybe more than one bug) that is causing the questions to be raised.  However it is hard for a regular player to test for the exp bonus being turned on as there is no simple way to do a side by side comparison.  (You would need to kill exactly the same mobs in the same zone with and without the exp bonus turned on.)  The rate at which vitality is lost at level 50 or above and whether having vitality or not is making a difference does seem to have changed.  So here are some questions that I am hoping you can answer clearly, especially now that the DoF launch is behind us, people are back from vacation, and the player summit is over. <ol> <li> Has SoE decided to discontinue or reduce the exp bonus for Test?  If not, has experience gain been reduced, particularly at level 50 and higher?  If not, could you please look into the possiblity of the new code having a bug or two that is affecting whether we are seeing a bonus as intended?</li> <li> Is the extra fast vitality loss starting at level 50 intended or a bug?  Also, is it a bug or intended that having vitality or not seems to have effect, at least for exping at level 50 or higher?</li> </ol> Thanks in advance for addressing this. Edowen <div></div><p>Message Edited by Edowen on <span class=date_text>10-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:57 AM</span>

[EtoilePirate]

I know you want a dev response, and I do too, but I have this to say about vitality over 50: to me, it just seems to be continuing the *exact same pattern) of vitality use that happens before 50.  I mean, when you start, 100% vitality carries you about 8 or 10 levels.  Then in the 30s and 40s you hit a point where 100% vitality only carries you 1 or 2 levels.  There's a point -- I remember hitting it -- where vitality and experience are about a 1:1 exchange.  Then in the high 40s you hit the point where 100% vitality takes you much less than one level, and you look forward to the point in the level where the next bubble it *will* carry you to is in the following level.  And at 50, 100% vitality is about four bubbles worth, and by 51 the ratio's about 1:2. So honestly, everyone else at the high levels is on about vitality not working, and to me it seems to be working exactly the samw eay it always has. It is true, however, that vitality after 50 seems almost not to matter.  Between XP debt from raiding and reduced playing hours, I think Kella may never hit 51. Great post though, Edowen.  I look forward to the official responses.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Igr]

<DIV>Greetings Edowen, Igram here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First and foremost, while I do not have concrete answers to these questions as of yet, I wanted to make sure that the community knew that both Ronobi and I are actively investigating the matter.  As we awaited answers regarding the vitality system and the Test Server experience bonus, we tested the vitality system at multiple levels to duplicate your findings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what we can see, players on test server are currently receiving 150% experience gain while under level 50: defeating enemies which were our own level on Test awarded us with 90 experience, while doing so with the exact same level mob on the Live server gave 60. At level 50 and above, this bonus disappeared. Whether or not this loss is intended is an answer I am currently pursuing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once I have any more information regarding either this issue or the increased rate of vitality loss (2- 2.5% vitality for every 1% of experience), I will post my findings immediately. Regardless, I have bugged the misleading experience bar on Test that always gives the message "You are currently earning double XP, due to your vitality", as even when the bonus is active below level 50, you are only receiving a 50% increase. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I appreciate your patience- I will post more information as it arrives.</DIV>

[Evadne]

Just a note: If the bonus disappears after fifty, the problem is the change is huge after you level to 50. Discouragingly so I hear. ~Eva <div></div>

[Sacha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Igram wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what we can see, players on test server are currently receiving 150% experience gain while under level 50: defeating enemies which were our own level on Test awarded us with 90 experience, while doing so with the exact same level mob on the Live server gave 60. .</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Firstly, I'd love to see the numbers. I have never been a fan of blue bubbles, give me hard numbers any day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secondly, if you are receiving 90 xp on test, and 60 xp on live, that equals a 50% bonus on test. Which means that (under level 50) the 50% xp bonus IS working, but vitality is NOT. Am I reading that right?</DIV>

[Edowen]

<span><blockquote><hr>Igram wrote:<div>Greetings Edowen, Igram here.</div> <div> </div> <div>First and foremost, while I do not have concrete answers to these questions as of yet, I wanted to make sure that the community knew that both Ronobi and I are actively investigating the matter.  As we awaited answers regarding the vitality system and the Test Server experience bonus, we tested the vitality system at multiple levels to duplicate your findings.</div> <div> </div> <div>From what we can see, players on test server are currently receiving 150% experience gain while under level 50: defeating enemies which were our own level on Test awarded us with 90 experience, while doing so with the exact same level mob on the Live server gave 60. At level 50 and above, this bonus disappeared. Whether or not this loss is intended is an answer I am currently pursuing. </div> <div> </div> <div>Once I have any more information regarding either this issue or the increased rate of vitality loss (2- 2.5% vitality for every 1% of experience), I will post my findings immediately. Regardless, I have bugged the misleading experience bar on Test that always gives the message "You are currently earning double XP, due to your vitality", as even when the bonus is active below level 50, you are only receiving a 50% increase. </div> <div> </div> <div>I appreciate your patience- I will post more information as it arrives.</div><hr></blockquote>Thank you very very much for tracking this down.  Since nobody ever told us that the exp bonus on Test was being permanently changed to end at 50, I am hoping that this was merely an oversight that happened when DoF went live and the Live servers got an exp bonus for under-50s for the first week, so people could have some leeway in learning the combat revamp.  Also, given what you found in your testing, this means that the command that toggles exp bonus is wrong when you turn on the bonus for an over-50 toon and it does not tell you that there is no bonus available.  Please see below for a suggestion about that. Last night I re-confirmed the vitality issue.  I was in a group in the Clefts of Rujark.  I started out showing 14% vitality and 14% short of dinging 52 on my monk, Irgul.  The vitality was gone around the time when Irgul still had 7% to go.  Before and after that point, exp gain was painfully slow, even though all the mobs we were fighting were heroic and almost all were white or yellow to me. Yes, there is a bug where the right-hand bulb always says you are earning double exp due to vitality.  Note that the main part of the exp bar seems to be operating properly; that is, it only says you are earning double exp when indeed you do have some vitality left.  However there is yet another bug.  The arrows on the top, bottom, or end of the exp bar are usually wrong, and sometimes missing.  By "wrong" I mean that they do not match at all with the message you get when you mouse over the bulb at the right-hand end of the exp bar.  This has been true for quite a while.  I don't remember if I have ever /bugged it but I would be surprised if nobody had. About your own bug report, having read a bunch of conversations about vitality and exp bonuses it is pretty clear to me that this topic is confusing to a good number of people.  The first culprit is SoE, since the vitality "bonus" really functions as a brake on how quickly people can accumulate exp.  Since most players have some vitality when they are out killing mobs, what is normal is to have vitality.  So in reality normal exp is when you get the bonus and if you grind and grind you start getting half normal exp because the game designers (probably rightfully) did not want people to be able to level up too fast.  However the designers (again probably rightfully)  apparently recognized that people would get unhappy if they were told they were being penalized, so the mechanism is described as rewarding people who are fresh from rest as opposed to penalizing people who have been out in the forest/desert/swamp/mountains/whatever slaughtering multitudes of mobs.   It's the same mechanism either way, with the same effect, just a different description.  Okay, that's off my chest.  What is important here is that while people understand how vitality is supposed to work, and how an exp bonus is supposed to work, the relation between the two is problematic.  Here is my understanding: </span> <ul> <li><span>If you no vitality and there is no exp bonus you get "n" experience for killing a particular mob.</span></li> <li><span>If you have no vitality and there is a 50% exp bonus you get 1.5n experience for killing that same mob.</span></li> <li><span>If you have vitality and there is no exp bonus you get 2n experience for killing that same mob.</span></li> <li><span>If you have vitality and there is a 50% exp bonus you get 3n experience for killing that same mob.</span></li> </ul> <span> Is this correct? To help players understand what to expect when playing, I would like to make a suggestion.  The goal is to clearly show whether there is an exp bonus enabled and to what extent exp is being modified by exp and vitality.  (Have you ever noticed how many questions get asked in the forums, for example after DoF was launched, about whether there is an exp bonus active?)  There are two parts to the suggestion: </span> <ol> <li><span>Highlight the main part of the exp bar (for example outline it in some nice happy color) when an exp bonus is active.</span></li> <li><span>Change the message that appears over the main part of the exp bar to reflect the affects of both vitality and exp bonuses.  For example, if you have vitality and are getting a 50% exp bonus, it might say something like "You are receiving 3 times normal experience due to your vitality and experience bonuses" but if there were no experience bonus in effect it could say "You are receiving 2 times normal experience due to your vitality bonus".</span></li> </ol> <span> Anyway, thanks once again for looking into these issues.  They have been around for a number of weeks and it is wonderful that they are finally getting some attention. Edowen </span><div></div>

[madbx]

Has there been any update to this as yet as no response for a few weeks. -Nelib <div></div>

[indigolily]

<P>Also wondering...</P> <P>Did crafters notice a change to tradeskill xp when live got an increase? I dont think that we did happen to get an increase in the crafting xp at that time. My characters were mostly moving into the 30 range when xp starts to come in alot slower so I may be aciddentally biased.</P> <P>Minnah Mousze of Test</P>

[Kuulei]

<DIV>Doesn't seem like any experience bonus for Tradeskilling is in place :smileyindifferent:</DIV>

[Heiro]

<DIV>Post 50 EXP for both Adventuring and Tradeskills are borked</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>TS exp is horrid .. Vitality helps, but it doesnt last long..  lvl 55 armorer and waiting days for vitality to climb back up so I can craft for another hour.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adv exp suxx .. plain and simple..  Quest exp rocks.. but solo grinds on groups of greens and blues is crap.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>10 groups of 4 mobs... 6 groups green ...4 groups blue, and I got less than 1% exp..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thats really nutzzz imo.. and not worth the time it takes to kill them.. cept I had to as they were sitting on my nodes.</DIV>

[Kuulei]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Heiro wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>thats really nutzzz imo.. and not worth the time it takes to kill them.. cept I had to as they were sitting on my nodes.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>:smileysurprised:  I had to read that a few times before my mind got out of the gutter :smileytongue:</DIV>

[Tadok]

<P>Your mind leaves the gutter?</P> <P>Labb Accident</P> <P>Children of War</P>

[Igr]

<P>Quick update,</P> <P>Sorry about the delay, but I am glad to report that as of the next update or so we should be seeing the experience bonus applied to levels 50-60. To my knowledge this experience bonus will be the same 50% increase that is in effect for levels 1-50, but I will put in an additional post when I know for sure.</P> <P> </P>

[Grimsore]

Awsome, thanks for relaying the problem and the update!

[Igr]

<P>One more update...</P> <P>For anyone who did not get a look at the patch notes lately, it looks like vitality was increased at high levels so that it did not become less useful as you level.</P> <DIV>I believe that leaves the experience bonus left unsaid in this series of posts: currently players of all levels on Test are seeing 150% experience gain which should stack with the vitality bonus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know it took awhile to get this info here so I thank you for your patience!</DIV>