Wizardly Roots, don't nerf em blindly

[goboy]

<DIV>Ok,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After getting over my high of killing 57 ^^^ and other heroic mobs - figured I should post here and offer a solution (before you all just nerf us).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yesterday, I was experimenting with what I could kill.  Here was the tactic I used for taking down ^^^ mobs. </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV>Truss, Ice Comet, Paralyze, Re-truss (when needed).  I used only Ice Comet and Paralyze due to their stopping abilities - they give me time to truss.  Basically, as long as the truss is not resisted - this is an easy kill (if long).</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The problem is the resist rate of Orange Mobs to roots.  All other spells appear to resist properly (no resist rate across the boards need to be changed or wizards in raids will be out of commission).  Also, roots vs Yellow and White mobs work fine - they should not resist anymore then they do.  If they did, soloing wizards would have problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This leaves only duo groups with wizard and healer.  I don't know what Kwoung and Zindi take on.  This would be the hardest combo to balance around.  If only orange heroic mobs root resist was changed, this would probably balance wizards properly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides the 57 ^^^, I also killed Chief Gar'Nik yesterday.  That was a bit dicey.  He was an orange ^^ with 2 orange ^ mobs.  They were never a problem, the wandering mobs were.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My recommendation would be to increase root resits for mobs that are Orange Heroic.  All other root resits seem fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jaly 50 wizard test.</DIV>

[goboy]

<P>Saying all that, are we on the same build as live?  I would hate to use my experiences to adjust combat if we do not have the same version (or a newer version) then live.  Seems live might have been patched over the weekend and we were not.</P> <P> </P>

[Kaknya]

 Actually, we did get a patch over the weekend, was sort of surprised when i saw it. weapons dr's and such fixed etc. so im guessing that we are at the same level for now, unless they get an update today. <div></div>

[bcbroom]

I'm not sure we got the "no fizzle on harvest, etc" patch. I didn't see that note in the test patch notes.  Several others are fairly convinced that we are behind live on a couple of issues, but I don't know of any specifics.

[Grimsore]

I've started to really get the changes down for the warlock and not sure what the solution is for me being able to kill heroic mobs with root. I take the same amount of damage vs a solo mob as i do a win vs a heroic mob. So if you "nerf" my root so that the heroic will kill me, it's also going to let the solo mobs kill me as well.The ^^^ heroic do take forever and a day to kill and are very dangerous. I DO NOT wan't to take equaly as long killing non heroic mobs...boring.

[Moorgard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> goboy wrote:<BR> <DIV>figured I should post here and offer a solution (before you all just nerf us). <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I find your lack of faith... disturbing. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We're looking at root spells, especially AE roots, as they should not generally be of the same effectiveness as the single-target variety.</DIV>

[goboy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> goboy wrote:<BR> <DIV>figured I should post here and offer a solution (before you all just nerf us). <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I find your lack of faith... disturbing. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We're looking at root spells, especially AE roots, as they should not generally be of the same effectiveness as the single-target variety.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You say lack of faith, I say quivering fear.  Changes to roots could be (in a word) harsh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I truely am having fun with my wizard at the moment.  I also recognize that the roots vs orange content was overpowered.   The change to orange resists rate did have an impact.  I was attempting to kill desert lunatics/prophets (solo groups) yesterday.  Since they were orange, they resisted my roots a few times.  You had one dead wizard about 50% of the time - that sounds about right actually.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would hate to see a change that impacted my ability to solo appropriate content.  It will be interesting to see what happens to the AE root.  Right now, that is the only thing allowing me to solo grouped solo mobs.  Might have to rely on Protoflame more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jaly 50 wizard</DIV><p>Message Edited by goboy on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:59 AM</span>

[goboy]

<DIV>Moorgard,</DIV> <DIV><BR>If you don't mind commenting, I am in an argument in another thread where people are labeling this as an exploit.  I fail to see their logic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The *exploit* per se is to use vitalic harvest to regen mana (stuns wizard) while the mob is rooted.  To me this is just sound tactics. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tactic:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV>Root target</DIV> <DIV>Cast Ice Comet then Paralyze (rationale, stops target)</DIV> <DIV>Re-root</DIV> <DIV>Vitalic harvest as needed</DIV> <DIV>Rinse and repeat</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>This is not without danger - if root is resisted I die.  I don't see the exploit personally - I see learning how to best use your spells.  Roots are rooting, Nukes are Nuking, Harvests are Harvesting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[bcbroom]

I agree with Jaly -- grouped (not heroic, just grouped) mobs are challenging for casters.  I have more than once died in DoF to multiple VV and VV mobs. Since a large number of mobs are group solo, if this changes much, wizards will have extremly limited options for solo hunting.

[Grimsore]

and warlocks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kwoung]

<P>I still think the uber version of protoflame  that could taunt and tank for 60 seconds was a much better solution than roots that can be recast an unlimited number of times. The protoflame, even though able to be recast, could never regain agro so was not an effective long term "root", it was also limited by health, meaning toss it against to high a mob and it died quickly. Also, proto breaks root almost immediately, so attempting to use both is near impossible.</P> <P>Plus, I think Proto was a lot more fun a spell than roots.</P> <P>Some people considered that spell a Pet, I personally looked at it simply as a different and more fun replacement for root, which it all it really was.</P>

[Grimsore]

Trouble with the limited pet, like protoflame or in the warlocks case netheros, being relied on to hold mobs is when you’re at a level too low to have one. Warlock doesn't get any kind of casting limited pet until 47, not sure on wizards. But if root is lowered in effect and limited pets raised in effect, then level 46 and down is going to be rough.Currently my pet can't take hits from much of anything but I love him. He does decent dot damage and even more important, I use him to gather a linked group of mobs in a single spot for my first aoe. Before I had to gather the mobs myself which really hurt.

[Miral]

please when nerfing keep in mind that wizard roots and warlock roots do not seem to perform the same, and roots of different tiers do not seem to perform the same. I'm a 26 warlock with adept 1 frozen manacles, and its being resisted over half the time even by blue solos