Tradeskill Buff Values

[WuphonsReach]

Anyone else notice that they've mucked with the values of the various buffs? Counters/buffs that used to give me +0/+50 on each tick (usually) now give -2/+45 (roughly). I've also noticed that it's uneven across the various tradeskills.I'll put together a list tonight of what values I'm seeing for the various buff lines from the various tradeskills. So I have hard data to point to for showing discrepancies.

[Edowen]

Yes, I noticed it the other day.  Some of the values in the buffs are not integers.  Plus, the chance of failure appears to have been cranked up somewhat.  However, since I have no reasonable way to measure that, it may just be my gut feeling. The sudden, unannounced appearance of values like 14.8 makes me think that there was an underlying change (perhaps related to the combat revamp) made to the mechanics that lie beneath the buffs, and that some set of algorithms was applied to the pre-existing buffs to get the new values that we are seeing.  It's even possible that the buff definitions were not changed, but are just getting massaged in some new way. Maybe if we are lucky Beghn will be able to a few minutes available to say some words here about this.  Poor guy must be drowning though, given all the things he has to get working for DoF. Edowen <div></div>

[WuphonsReach]

My theory is similar... the lower tiers were changed in order to allow for the T5 and T6 buffs.But, will wait until I can put numbers together tonight.

[WuphonsReach]

<b>T1 - progress buffs</b> (as of Aug 19 2005)<u>+progress/-durability</u>+14.4 / -4.8 - Theory (Chemistry 55, T1)+14.4 / -4.8 - Dovetail Joint (Sculpting 55, T1)+22 / -7.2 - Strikes (Metal Shaping 55, T1)+22 / -7.2 - Constant Heat (Artistry 55, T1)+7.2 / -2.4 - Cutting (Fletching 60, T1)+7.2 / -2.4 - Mind over Matter (Artificing 55, T1)+7.2 / -2.4 - Nimble (Tailoring 55, T1)+14.4 / -4.8 - Spellbinding (Scribing 55, T1)+14.4 / -4.8 - Hardening (Metalworking 60, T1)+7.2 / -2.4 - Stain (Woodcraft 60, T1)+6.4 / -2.4 - Test (Thaumaturgy 55, T1)+6.4 / -2.4 - Mold (Geocraft 55, T1)+6.4 / -2.4 - Stitch (Binding 55, T1)<u>+progress/-power</u>+7.2 - Awareness (Artistry 55, T1)+7.2 - Lettering (Scribing 55, T1)+7.2 - Knots (Tailoring 55, T1)+7.2 - Angle Joint (Metal Shaping 55, T1)+7.2 - Tempering (Metalworking 60, T1)+7.2 - Handwork (Fletching 60, T1)+7.2 - Metallurgy (Sculpting 55, T1)+7.2 - Round Brilliant Cut (Artificing 55, T1)+7.2 - Experiment (Chemistry 55, T1)+7.2 - Sand (Woodcraft 55, T1)+7.2 - Stir (Thaumaturgy 55, T1)+4.8 - Cure (Binding 55, T1)+4.8 - Imbue (Geocraft 55, T1)<u>+progress/-success</u>+7.2 / -2.4% - Stitching (Tailoring 55, T1)+22 / -4.8% - Concentrate (Sculpting 55, T1)+14.4 / - 4.8% - Measure (Fletching 60, T1)+14.4 / -4.8% - Anneal (Metalworking 60, T1)+7.2 / -2.4% - Notation (Scribing 55, T1)+7.2 / -2.4% - Reaction (Chemistry 55, T1)+7.2 / -2.4% - Focus of Spirit (Artificing 55, T1)+14.4 / -4.8% - Seasoning (Artistry 55, T1)+14.4 / -4.8% - Isothermic (Metal Shaping 55, T1)+12.8 / -4.8% - Braid (Binding 55, T1)+12.8 / -4.8% - Coalesce (Thaumaturgy 55, T1)+7.2 / -2.4% - Carve (Woodcraft 55, T1)+12.8 / -4.8% - Fabricate (Geocraft 55, T1)<b>T1 bugs:</b>1) Skills that have a skill level of 60 instead of 55 like the rest of the T1 buffs. These either need to be adjusted downward to 55, or all of the other buffs need to be upgraded to 60.+7.2 / -2.4 - Stain (Woodcraft 60, T1)+7.2 / -2.4 - Cutting (Fletching 60, T1)+14.4 / -4.8 - Hardening (Metalworking 60, T1)+7.2 - Tempering (Metalworking 60, T1)+7.2 - Handwork (Fletching 60, T1)+14.4 / - 4.8% - Measure (Fletching 60, T1)+14.4 / -4.8% - Anneal (Metalworking 60, T1)2) Disparities in the +progress/-durability buffs. I don't know what the values are supposed to be, but they're all over the map.3) Disparities in the +progress/-power buffs. It looks like the alternate skills are supposed to be 4.8, but some are 7.2:+7.2 - Sand (Woodcraft 55, T1)+7.2 - Stir (Thaumaturgy 55, T1)+4.8 - Cure (Binding 55, T1)+4.8 - Imbue (Geocraft 55, T1)4) Disparities in the +progress/-success buffs. All over the map here, and I don't know what the values are supposed to be.(edited, to break the alternate skills out in a clearer fashion)<p>Message Edited by WuphonsReach on <span class=date_text>08-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:29 PM</span>

[WuphonsReach]

<b>T2 - durability buffs</b> (as of Aug 19 2005)<u>+durability/-progress</u>+4.0 / -8.0 - Vitrify (Metalworking 100, T2)+4.0 / -8.0 - Hammering (Metal Shaping 100, T2)+8.0 / -16.0 - Embroider (Tailoring 100, T2)+4.0 / -8.0 - Slow Simmer (Artistry 100, T2)+8.0 / -16.0 - Chipping (Fletching 100, T2)+8.0 / -16.0 - Tee Joint (Sculpting 100, T2)+8.0 / -16.0 - Telekinesis (Artificing 100, T2)+12.0 / -24.0 - Spell Weaving (Scribing 100, T2)+8.0 / -16.0 - Conceptualize (Chemistry 100, T2)+8.0 / -16.0 - Laminate (Woodcraft 100, T2)+8.0 / -19.2 - Fasten (Binding 100, T2)+8.0 / -19.2 - Mint (Geocraft 100, T2)+8.0 / -19.2 - Examine (Thaumaturgy 100, T2)<u>+durability/-power</u>+8.0 - Indurate (Metalworking 100, T2)+8.0 - Binding (Tailoring 100, T2)+8.0 - Bridle Joint (Metal Shaping 100, T2)+8.0 - Geology (Sculpting 100, T2)+8.0 - Crafting (Fletching 100, T2)+8.0 - Realization (Artistry 100, T2)+8.0 - Analyze (Chemistry 100, T2)+8.0 - Square Cut (Artificing 100, T2)+8.0 - Calligraphy (Scribing 100, T2)+8.0 - Infuse (Geocraft 100, T2)+8.0 - Agitate (Thaumaturgy 100, T2)+8.0 - Preserve (Binding 100, T2)+8.0 - Furbish (Woodcraft 100, T2)<u>+durability/-success</u>+8.0 / -4.8% - Strengthening (Metalworking 100, T2)+8.0 / -2.4% - Dexterous (Tailoring 100, T2)+8.0 / -2.4% - Steady Heat (Metal Shaping 100, T2)+8.0 / -2.4% - Spice Up (Artistry 100, T2)+8.0 / -2.4% - Weigh (Fletching 100, T2)+16.0 / -2.4% - Consider (Sculpting 100, T2)+8.0 / -2.4% - Center of Spirit (Artificing 100, T2)+8.0 / -2.4% - Synthesis (Chemistry 100, T2)+8.0 / -2.4% - Jot Down (Scribing 100, T2)+8.0 / -2.4% - Whittle (Woodcraft 100, T2)+8.0 / -4.8% - Concoct (Geocraft 100, T2)+8.0 / -4.8% - Entwine (Binding 100, T2)+8.0 / -4.8% - Consolidate (Thaumaturgy 100, T2)<b>T2 bugs:</b>1) Geology, Sculpting T2 - power usage is set to zero (0). Could be a display bug.2) The +durability/-progress are all over the map. My opinion is that the side skills should boost durability (+4 dura / -8 progress) to a lesser degree then the primary skills (+8 dura / -16 progress). So, the following fixes would be needed:+4.0 / -8.0 - Vitrify (Metalworking 100, T2) -- should be +8/-16+4.0 / -8.0 - Hammering (Metal Shaping 100, T2) -- should be +8/-16+4.0 / -8.0 - Slow Simmer (Artistry 100, T2) -- should be +8/-16+12.0 / -24.0 - Spell Weaving (Scribing 100, T2) -- should be +8/-16+8.0 / -16.0 - Laminate (Woodcraft 100, T2) -- should be +4/-8+8.0 / -19.2 - Fasten (Binding 100, T2) -- should be +4/-8+8.0 / -19.2 - Mint (Geocraft 100, T2) -- should be +4/-8+8.0 / -19.2 - Examine (Thaumaturgy 100, T2) -- should be +4/-83) The +durability/-power skills do not differentiate between side skills and primary skills. My opinion is that those values should be +4 dura or +6 dura for the 4 side-skills. So, the side-skills would need to be changed:+8.0 - Infuse (Geocraft 100, T2) -- change to +4+8.0 - Agitate (Thaumaturgy 100, T2) -- change to +4+8.0 - Preserve (Binding 100, T2) -- change to +4+8.0 - Furbish (Woodcraft 100, T2) -- change to +44) The +durability/-success skills are mostly consistent except for:+8.0 / -4.8% - Strengthening (Metalworking 100, T2) -- should be -2.4% success+16.0 / -2.4% - Consider (Sculpting 100, T2) -- should be +8.0 dura+8.0 / -2.4% - Whittle (Woodcraft 100, T2) -- should be -4.8% success(I think the 4 sideskills should only be +4 durability with a -3.6%... but that's an opinion.)...Again, my opinion is based on the idea that side-skills are supposed to be at a disadvantage. For some of them, it seems like that was what the devs were planning. For others, it seems like the devs were of the opinion that they should be as good as the primary skills.

[WuphonsReach]

<b>T3 - progress buffs</b> (as of Aug 19 2005)Note: I could not find a T3+ carpenter online this week on Test.<u>+progress/-durability</u>+22 / -7.2 - Set (Metalworking 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8 - Rapid Boil (Artistry 150, T3)+22 / -7.2 - Assumption (Chemistry 150, T3)+7.2 / -2.4 - Forging (Metal Shaping 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8 - Precognition (Artificing 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8 - Weaving (Tailoring 150, T3)+22 / -7.2 - Incantation (Scribing 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8 - Chiseling (Fletching 150, T3)+12.8 / -4.8 - Form (Geocraft 150, T3)+12.8 / -4.8 - Seam (Binding 150, T3)+12.8 / -4.8 - Inspect (Thaumaturgy 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8 - Enamel (Woodcraft 150, T3)<u>+progress/-power</u>+14.4 - Modeling (Metalworking 150, T3)+14.4 - Foresight (Artistry 150, T3)+14.4 - Assay (Chemistry 150, T3)+14.4 - Lap Joint (Metal Shaping 150, T3)+14.4 - Oval Cut (Artificing 150, T3)+14.4 - Cord (Tailoring 150, T3)+14.4 - Scribing (Scribing 150, T3)+14.4 - Whittling (Fletching 150, T3)+14.4 - Permeate (Geocraft 150, T3)+14.4 - Strengthen (Bindign 150, T3)+14.4 - Blend (Thaumaturgy 150, T3)+14.4 - Scour (Woodcraft 150, T3)<u>+progress/-success</u>+14.4 / -4.8% - Toughen (Metalworking 150, T3)+22.0 / -7.2% - Pinch of Salt (Artistry 150, T3)+22.0 / -7.2% - Results (Chemistry 150, T3)+7.2 / -2.4% - Glowing Metal (Metal Shaping 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8% - Fixation of Spirit (Artificing 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8% - Quickness (Tailoring 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8% - Record (Scribing 150, T3)+22.0 / -7.2% - Estimate (Fletching 150, T3)+26 / -9.6% - Formulate (Geocraft 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8% - Chisel (Woodcraft 150, T3)+26 / -9.6% - Saturate (Thaumaturgy 150, T3)+14.4 / -4.8% - Interlace (Binding 150, T3)<b>T3 bugs:</b>1) The +progress/-durability buffs are all over the map.2) The +progress/-power sideskill buffs are identical to the primary skill buffs, which doesn't seem to match the pattern.3) The +progress/-success buffs are also all over the map with very little consistency.

[WuphonsReach]

<b>T4 - durability buffs</b> (as of Aug 19 2005)Note: I could not find a T4+ carpenter online this week on Test.<u>+durability/-progress</u>+8.0 / -16 - Drawing Metal (Metalworking 200, T4)+8.0 / -16 - Reduce Heat (Artistry 200, T4)+4.0 / -8.0 - Conjecture (Chemistry 200, T4)+8.0 / -16 - Smithy (Metal Shaping 200, T4)+12.0 / -24 - Psychokenesis (Artificing 200, T4)+12.0 / -24 - Hem (Tailoring 200, T4)+4.0 / -8.0 - Chant (Scribing 200, T4)+12.0 / -24 - Carving (Fletching 200, T4)+16.0 / -38 - Sample (Thaumaturgy 200, T4)+16.0 / -38 - Tack (Binding 200, T4)+16.0 / -32 - Shape (Geocraft 200, T4)+12.0 / -24 - Glaze (Woodcraft 200, T4)<u>+durability/-power</u>+16.0 - Braze (Metalworking 200, T4)+12.0 - Apprehension (Artistry 200, T4)+12.0 - Speculation (Chemistry 200, T4)+16.0 - Corner Joint (Metal Shaping 200, T4)+12.0 - Radiant Cut (Artificing 200, T4)+12.0 - Tether (Tailoring 200, T4)+12.0 - Penmanship (Scribing 200, T4)+12.0 - Detail (Fletching 200, T4)+12.0 - Mix (Thaumaturgy 200, T4)+12.0 - Burnish (Woodcraft 200, T4)+12.0 - Reinforce (Binding 200, T4)+12.0 - Ingrain (Geocraft 200, T4)<u>+durability/-success</u>+16.0 / -4.8% - Solidify (Metalworking 200, T4)+16.0 / -4.8% - Dash of Pepper (Aristry 200, T4)+16.0 / -4.8% - Cessation (Chemistry 200, T4)+16.0 / -4.8% - Stoke Coals (Metal Shaping 200, T4)+16.0 / -4.8% - Convergence of Spirit (Artificing 200, T4)+16.0 / -4.8% - Ambidexterity (Tailoring 200, T4)+16.0 / -4.8% - Scripting (Scribing 200, T4)+16.0 / -4.8% - Appraise (Fletching 200, T4)+12.0 / -4.8% - Intertwine (Binding 200, T4)+16.0 / -9.6% - Instill (Thaumaturgy 200, T4)+16.0 / -4.8% - Incise (Woodcraft 200, T4)+16.0 / -9.6% - Contrive (Geocraft 200, T4)<b>T4 bugs:</b>This is where it gets tricky, the numbers are all over the map so it's difficult for me to say "X" is wrong and "Y" is right. I can only point out discrepancies between buffs.1) The +durability/-progress buffs. Seems like they are supposed to be +12 dura / -24 power for the primary skills, and something less for the secondary skills. Yet the secondary skills are at +16 dura / -38 progress which makes them much more effective.2) The +durability/-power buffs. The primary skills need to be boosted to +16 across the board, with the secondary skills left at +12. The T2 +dura/-power sideskills would then need to be +6 (since they use half the power of the T4s).3) The +durability/-success buffs. T2 primaries are +8 dura / -2.4% succ, with side skills at either +4 dura / -3.6% or +8 dura / -4.8%. I don't know which way the devs are planning for the T4 +dura/-succ buffs for the side skills. One of them only gives +12 dura / -4.8%, the other gives the full +16 dura but with a larger -9.6% fail rate. I think they should all be set to +12 dura / -4.8% succ (if the T2s are set to +4 dura / -3.6% succ). Either way, the (4) side skills need to be made consistent with each other.