Tradeskill Reaction Woes

[Torali]

<DIV>I've been tradeskilling a lot lately to make sure I wasn't imagining things and to make sure I could figure out just what I was doing when this happened. Apparantly, if you get a reaction while crafting and counter it with a Progress buff, there's a big chance that it won't register you even hit any buff. Let alone the correct one. This never happens when countering with a Duration buff. Also, it doesn't ALWAYS happen when countering with the progress. But most of the time it does.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's the gist of it. Sorry, I'm not a mathematician or number cruncher....so sweet and simple is all I can give you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Toralu, 50 Wizard</DIV> <DIV>50 Provisioner</DIV> <DIV>50 Sage</DIV> <DIV>50 Alchemist</DIV> <DIV>33 Tailor</DIV> <DIV>Master NUTCASE</DIV>

[Sacha]

<DIV>I've encountered this. To ensure that the counter actually activates, you need to wait until every other counter (the ones you used in the previous "tick" ) has ticked away, the issue is that it won't queue. If you wait until the timer runs out, and the icons are no longer greyed out, it will work. Doesn't give you long, next tick is a microsecond away <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think I explained that very well. Doh.</DIV>

[imakee]

I have also noticed what Torali is refering to. It happened back when I was grinding up Kaeru (my woodworker) She was making inks and doing a lot of work on apothecary and I noticed that at certain times when I tried to counter an event the counter would grey out but the event remained as if I hadn't pressed anything. To make this more clear: The event Minor Knot shows up. I press the counter Cutting (the appropriate counter).  The counters grey out as if I had pressed one but the event  Minor Knot still shows in the event window. I could not find a pattern to which counters never work or always work.  I have seen it happen with Apothecary and Woodworking.  But then again I haven't spent a lot of crafting since then. <div></div>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sacha wrote:<BR> <DIV>I've encountered this. To ensure that the counter actually activates, you need to wait until every other counter (the ones you used in the previous "tick" ) has ticked away, the issue is that it won't queue. If you wait until the timer runs out, and the icons are no longer greyed out, it will work. Doesn't give you long, next tick is a microsecond away <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think I explained that very well. Doh.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Oddly enough, I only have it happen with one buff, the tailoring dur + buff, dexterous.  All others *will* queue up.  In addition, sometimes Dexterous will not even counter an event when it doesnt have to queue.</P> <P>Also, correctly countering an event sometimes leads to -50 dur or even crit failures again  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Grimsore]

Less talk, more making thing! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Lets have every failure result in cake so we keep all our trade skill folks happy! Oh ya, the bug they are refuring too should probably be fixed too.

[WuphonsReach]

The rumors that I'm hearing are:1st) Some counters (or events) aren't actually countering (or counterable). While you don't receive damage, neither do you get the auto -10/+50 tick like you're supposed to. So some tradeskills seem to be more heavily affected then others. Seems to be a bug in the tradeskill code that is supposed to give us a no-failure tick (-10/+50) if we counter the event properly.I've noticed that I am indeed seeing failure ticks on rounds when I have definitely countered with the proper buff. I filed a general /bug, but haven't dug deep enough to figure which buffs or which events are failing....2nd) If, when you counter an event, you attempt to also stack up one or both of the other buffs in the same tick. It acts like you didn't counter at all. Sounds like the code cannot correctly deal with multiple buffs within a single tick's time window....Both of these are difficult scenarios to test. I've heard that there is a tradeskill window mod that shows green/red highlighting for the "grey-out" of the event icon and that some correctly countered events flash "red" (meaning you failed) rather then "green" (meaning you countered).

[Torali]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WuphonsReach wrote:<BR>The rumors that I'm hearing are:<BR><BR>1st) Some counters (or events) aren't actually countering (or counterable). While you don't receive damage, neither do you get the auto -10/+50 tick like you're supposed to. So some tradeskills seem to be more heavily affected then others. Seems to be a bug in the tradeskill code that is supposed to give us a no-failure tick (-10/+50) if we counter the event properly.<BR><BR>I've noticed that I am indeed seeing failure ticks on rounds when I have definitely countered with the proper buff. I filed a general /bug, but haven't dug deep enough to figure which buffs or which events are failing.<BR><BR>...<BR><BR>2nd) If, when you counter an event, you attempt to also stack up one or both of the other buffs in the same tick. It acts like you didn't counter at all. Sounds like the code cannot correctly deal with multiple buffs within a single tick's time window.<BR><BR>...<BR><BR>Both of these are difficult scenarios to test. I've heard that there is a tradeskill window mod that shows green/red highlighting for the "grey-out" of the event icon and that some correctly countered events flash "red" (meaning you failed) rather then "green" (meaning you countered).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>1. I do take damage on the Alchemist, Sage and Tailor when it fails to recognize the counter. So that rumor isn't true. However, critical failing on proper counters that DO stick is true.</P> <P>2. When I've countered and it didn't register...it failed to register BEFORE ever hitting another buff. So stacking isn't an issue I've seen here.</P>

[Sacha]

<DIV>I'm sorry my suggestion didn't work, Tor. I have had this occur in Apothecary, Scribing, Alchemy, and the failure to register is ALWAYS the "lowers chance to succeed" buff (in the middle on my hotbar). Now that I know it is going to happen, whenever I see the event icon I know to wait til every icon is clear, then hit the counter. It works 100% of the time for me. Don't know what else to suggest. :smileyindifferent:</DIV>

[Torali]

<P>Sacha, your suggestion worked perfectly and thank you for it. :smileyhappy:</P> <P> I was answering Snabbik's two rumors he'd heard.</P>

[WuphonsReach]

/chucklesI don't mind, Tor. I try to preface info in such a way that it's clear whether it's something I've seen personally, or something I'm just passing along or have only seen once.

[Kaknya]

  I never thought the buffs were a guaranteed thing to begin with. always thought of them like mellee avoidance etc. , where, when you hit a buff, you basically have so much of a percentage chance that that buff will actually take effect, or that it would flub. and that the higher level you are in that field, ie. artisan for provisioner, the more likely that your buffs will land and not fail. there seems to be some element of chance in everything we do in norath. but please sony, when you have gnomes making sandcastles on the beach that blow up. Can I make one? Jalina Gnome 23 warlock/30 provisioner <Ancient Treachery> <div></div>

[WuphonsReach]

That's how it used to be... until Friz(?) changed it a month or two ago. Basically, if you counter an event, you're supposed to be guaranteed to not get a critical failure on that tick. The reasoning is that properly countering events should not be punished.(Note, this does not mean that you get rewarded for countering properly. But to counter an event properly, and then get "rewarded" with a critical failure on that tick is/was very frustrating.)

[Torali]

Sorry that I was so unclear on this subject. And, once again, sorry I ever said anything about anything in the first place.

[Wodo]

I forgive you Tor.  <span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div>

[WuphonsReach]

<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=67113#M67113" target=_blank> Could we finally get fix to malfunctioning tradeskill event counter system, please?</a> - Thread that covers the issue (it's also on Live servers).Also the linked message has a link to the eq2interface mod that shows the red/green result boxes. (Whether or not the red/green information is accurate or misleading is up for debate.) I'm gonna go ahead and pull that down and give it a try to see if it matches the broken events that I've seen.(Alchemy is rather painful at the moment...)